Installing a Spindle Part 2 - CNCnutz Episode 145

Here is how the Spindle is wired and the VDF programmed.
It is not practical to do a step by step in a video but drawings and documentation can be found on my website.
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DISCLAIMER:
CNC machines and other power tools are dangerous when used incorrectly. These videos are for entertainment purposes. I can accept no responsibility for any injuries you may incur from replication of what you see in these videos. I aim to demonstrate safe procedures but before attempting any project you should have prior machining experience or have done further research. If you are in any doubt about your safety you should look for an alternative method.
I hope you enjoy.

[@MACKdaddy1220]

Really appreciate all the time you take to help all of us out...I often revert back to many of your videos when I get stuck on a issue. Thank you!

[@cncnutz]

Thanks Bruce.

[@VSongu]

Thank you Peter for the sharing such comprehensive instruction, I do like your thorough and calm elucidation!

[@DalyMalcolm]

Hi Peter. I foolishly never did any set up on my VFD, I just plugged it in and went right ahead, I didn't know I had too 😧. I'm assuming like you said it was preprogrammed by the seller as the workshop hasn't burned down yet 😂, I'm building a brand new machine myself and watching your videos has been invaluable to my progress, thanks from Scotland 👍

[@cncnutz]

+Malcolm Daly When selling a kit it would be in the sellers interest to program the VFD before shipping to make sure it worked properly and not damage the spindle when powered up for the first time. If buyers plug it in and it smokes the week assume it is faulty and complain. I bought all my parts from different suppliers so I had to figure it out. Cheers Peter

[@jimsinacola-totallywoodwor7473]

Going to start saving so I can get one of these. Great video Peter!

[@cncnutz]

+TotallyWood Workshop - Jim Sinacola Thanks Jim

[@131melbourne6]

Hi Peter A great video once again I like how you emphasized the earth, I also liked the fuse in the vfd, that's the difference between someone who is smart (that's you) and someone who thought they where smart (that's me) LOL on the placement of the fuse. I put my 10K pot, spindle switch and Estop in one box mounted on the cnc base frame. Love you work cannot wait to see your next Video cheers from down under.

[@cncnutz]

+131melbourne Thanks 131 Adding an Estop to a spindle hand control is a good ideal. Who said you weren't smart. Cheers Peter

[@HR41Plan]

You done the best video on the subject, perfect for me (dummy). I check loot video on the subject...

[@MarkAW2003]

Hi Peter. I found I had to set PD073 (Lower Analogue Frequency) to the same value as PD011 (Lower Frequency) or the spindle wouldn't start with the front panel knob set on minimum speed. In my case I have both set to 50 (3000rpm) for water cooled, but you have yours at 100 (6000rpm). Thanks for the guide - I wouldn't have jumped in if it wasn't for your videos and guides.

[@omiateeful]

Peter, I sure enjoy your videos. I realize you couldn't possibly tell what is going on with my vfd install, but maybe you can point me in the right direction. I power on the vfd and it works properly. I turn off the vfd and turn on my mach3 cnc and it also works correctly, but, with my cnc on and when I turn on the vfd, all 3 axis' energize and go at full speed to the limit switches. It puts a pulse strong enough to move all of my servos. I am well grounded to a central point and wired it to your example. I know without knowing more it is difficult, but maybe you could give me a hint? Thanks Peter, Robert Brown Seffner Florida. I put together this 48in. x48in servo powered machine and it has worked well until this vfd install.

[@JaviUnboxed]

Excellent video Peter. Thank you for the content. Keep it coming. Informative as always. You are a valuable resource. - Javi

[@cncnutz]

+Javi's Wood Shop Thanks Javi

[@pmsilvei]

Thank you! Have a good one 👍🏻

[@cncnutz]

Thanks

[@dronesvisionsaeriennes]

Hello Peter, I have a VFD YL 620 A and it seemed to me that I had read not to connect the Earth to the pin and therefore to leave the 4th pad free at the aviation connector where the U,V,W arrivals are soldered ?? In addition, make a hole for wiring on the body of the spit, I would not like there to be a water leak ?? What do you think ? How to wire for an automatic start of the spindle when launching the program, for the moment I start the rotation manually via the knob ? I understood that you added a switch to power the VFD, is it really useful, mine is powered when I power up the complete CnC installation? I am on single phase, 220v, in France Thank's to you Philippe

[@AndyBlackman]

Thanks for sharing. Helped clear up a few questions I had.

[@cncnutz]

+Andy Blackman Good one Andy. Glad it helps.

[@MegaTopdogs]

Thank you for all the information Peter.

[@cncnutz]

Hope you find it useful Cheers Peter

[@tommygilchrist7771]

Great video Peter, thanks for sharing. I did actually laugh out loud at your 'qualification' :-)

[@cncnutz]

+Tommy Gilchrist Thanks Tommy.

[@mipotter1967]

Hi Peter. i installed a 2.2kw water cooled spindle and vfd about a year ago. So much more accurate and quieter than my old router. However, I had no end of trouble using the usb rs485 adapter with Mach 3. Firstly it was really difficult to get drivers for it. I ended up purchasing 2 different rs485s to get one that was recognised as a valid device on windows xp. Secondly, after running flawlessly for about 2 months, It started to constantly hang my entire machine with the spindle running. The only way to get things going again was to turn it off at the mains. I still havent found the cause for this but if i disconnect the rs485 and revert to manual speed control it seems to be fine.

[@cncnutz]

+Dust Bunny Good to know. I forgot I was still using XP on my laptop when I ordered the RS485 adapter. Hmmmm Will be interesting to see if I have any luck getting it to work for me. Cheers Peter

[@mipotter1967]

CNCnutz (Peter Passuello) just something to be aware of. I hope you don't come across the same issue but if you do i will really pay attention to your solution. as i said I'm Stull using the spindle manually which is a bit disappointing. good luck

[@WoodomainJeremyBroun]

Very clear and informative thanks very much

[@cncnutz]

Thanks Jeremy.

[@dart70ca]

Very informative. Waiting for the next ones. My VFD looks like yours. The faceplate pops off via that finger hole at the top and pulls out quite a ways on a ribbon cable should you want to remote mount it or program in a less awkward position. Probably not tough enough to stand up to moving around the machine in a working environment though. You get my vote for making up a proper hand control. I like MPG dials, axis selection (including 'none'), feed hold, cycle start and e-stop on mine.

[@cncnutz]

Thanks Keith. There is an extension kit i have seen to extend that front panel but I cannot find a supplier for it unfortunately. I'm of the same opinion as you that it probably isn't sturdy enough for day to day use so a separate hand control would be better. Just to be clear the hand control I was suggesting was for speed and on/off only. You can buy the type of hand control you are looking at off ebay but the type I was talking about was a tidier version of the hand control I cobbled together for the video. I like it because it is independent of the software and hardware you are using. Cheers Peter

[@plasmaDave]

Here's one seems cheap enough www.aliexpress.com/store/product/VFD-extension-cable-box-for-keypad-control-panel-Huanyang-inverter-accessory/723929_32665446676.html

[@cncnutz]

That's the one. A friend sent me a link to one but they had sold out when I looked. I still don't think it would be resilient enough to use every day but as a way to get the display to where I could see it easily i think it would be good. Cheers Peter

[@AD-im6yx]

Hi Peter, tried to reach you via your blog post or “website contact me” but seems it didn’t go through. Could you explain in more details how to ground Spindle Housing and Spindle Connector that you mentioned in this video? Thanks, appreciate your sharing very much!

[@rogerwebb9600]

Nice job Peter. Roger Clyde Webb

[@cncnutz]

+Roger Webb Thanks Rodger

[@Robonza]

I have the same VFD, it came from allixepress for about 200nzd. It also came with an English manual. For me the PWM frequency setting was important as it made the motor much quieter. The settings are stored in "registers" not registry.

[@cncnutz]

+Robonza Thanks for the info. Did I say registry? Will have to have a watch and see. Cheers Peter

[@Robonza]

Just a few hundred times lol. Still a good video though mate.

[@cncnutz]

So I did. Can't even pass it off as my accent. :-)

[@raifhanna131]

thanks Peter,in uccnc when we use a step/direction spindle ,at any end of line being cut will the spindle stop waiting for Z axis to retract or it keeps turning while Z axis retracting?thank in advance

[@watahyahknow]

i heared more about the 4th pin not being grounded when you connected it you could use the wire for ground to hook youre touchpoint to as whell , saves you having to put the gator clamp on the router evertime you use it or have to route another wire through the whole setup think you can get 220 volts in the states by using two phases they dont use the null over here 220 is one phase and the null

[@cncnutz]

+watahyahknow The don't seem to earth things in China but I prefer to live another day myself. As you say it will help With the touch plate as well if the controller is also referenced to ground. Also 220 can be installed in the USA. 2 phase as you rightly said. Cheers Peter

[@adpadp3769]

U V W. To 1 2 3 4 on the spindle. Which wires go where???

[@mikecabe6127]

ENJOYED THE VIDEO PETER. THANKS

[@cncnutz]

Thanks Mike

[@toms4123]

Fantastic video, Peter. I have been running this setup for some years now and thinking back it took quite some persistance to get it to work. The speedcontrol via Ma h3 still does not work but I will take your upcoming video as a reminder to replicate what you did or will do with the alternative method. I am interested where you think mach3 speed control will be applicable. I would tend to run the bits in timber always with the pedal to the medal.... Thank you for all your time - I for one benefit.

[@cncnutz]

+Tom S Thanks Tom. They are a sod to set up especially if you have never seen one before. Speed control is always important. At full speed you burn your way around the wood and your cutters are blunt very quickly. I cut around the 10000rpm mark and that is at 100 to 200 ipm. Cheers Peter

[@spannerman4886]

I have just found this Peter and thankyou it's really comprehensive. (Liked and subscribed) I live in the UK so we're using the same power 230V 50Hz I believe? I do have one question if you wouldn't mind? My version is 1.5 Kw inverter and spindle which will alter some of the parameters listed for yours eg. My spindle is 220V / 8 Amp whereas yours is a 10 Amp could you tell me which other parameters are set differently? I will add that the info I received from the seller show that it seems to be set for use in the UK? It does work( without smoke😂🤣) but then again it also tells me NOT to connect wire 4 on the plug which is my earth. I have all Axes of the frame grounded so would it be acceptable to earth the wire to the frame? Thanks again.

[@plasmaDave]

Thanks Peter all very informative i'll have to sort mine out soon, been too long in very basic mode and mine doesn't have the speed controler on the VFD so it has been max speed all the way. I'll be Interested to hear how you go with Mach3 and RS485 it seems that can be very easy or a major headache

[@cncnutz]

+den453 You can use the arrow keys to set the speed. If you are using 24000rpm you will burn your way around the material. Will get the next video out ASAP. Cheers Peter

[@plasmaDave]

I can understand why you might think that but in fact it doesn't and creates very good chip size. I mainly use 1/8th inch bits but even on 8mm bits it's no problem. Larger is an issue though. I have tried the arrows without success apparently some of the Huanyang type VFD's don't have speed control hope mine isn't one of them as I would like to control it.

[@cncnutz]

I bet I know what sort my RS485 will be. Take 2 asprin and call me in the morning. Is your VDF the same type as mine? If it is there are settings to enable the up down arrows. Cheers Peter

[@cncnutz]

Single flute bits will have a cutting speed of 24000 will cut the same as a 2 flute bit at 12000 which may be acceptable so I suspect your 1/8th bit is single flute. A 2 flute bit at 24000 is the same as a single flute bit at 48000. SMOKIN. Most larger bits are 2 flute and will not appreciate the high speed. It all depends on your feed rate as a fast feedrate demands higher RPM. It is a PITA subject that I am avoiding for the time being until I have the spindle finished.

[@plasmaDave]

Ah ha yes up and down arrows now work, my that's a slow way of changing the speed isn't it. My VFD appears to be the same as yours but doesn't have the speed knob.

[@damianchojna9497]

Could you explain again why we connect the cable shield only to the earth inverter? And why we can't connect it to the spindle earth either ?

[@cncnutz]

You will create a ground loop if you earth a cable shield at each end. This causes current to flow through the shield and will induce noise into the controller. After that the entire machine will misbehave and become unusable. Badly used shielded cable is 100 times worse than no shield at all. If you remember nothing else it should be that cable shields must be connected at one end only. Cheers Peter

[@ynnocser]

@@cncnutz There is nothing like a ground-loop. Manufacturer of professional spindles recommend to connect shield to VFD-ground and Pin4 at spindle-connector. (Given Pin4 is connected to housing of spindle internally) I know this video is 3 years old, but above info is greatly spread on the net and it simply is false. Spindle will work well with connected shield on both ends and shielding will benefit.

[@scotthoward2055]

i just got a 110v spindle and im having a hard time finding info on what to set my vfd to.....i have a 1500w spindle 400hz 110v.....i'm new to all this vfd thing worried i will set something wrong.........thanks for any info and love the videos!

[@cncnutz]

Hi Scott, I don't claim to be an expert on setting up a spindle. Only some of the values are critical and will cause damage while others if set wrong will simply cause features not to work as you want. The biggest things to get right is the spindle frequency, voltage and current. Set the Frequency , voltage and current values shown on the spindle body into the VFD before starting anything. Put a low value fuse in the mains lead in case you get things wrong and that will protect you. Once you are happy then change it out to the final value. You will need to find the torque curve voltages for yours from the VFD manual as mine was for a 220 volt setup and they are probably different. Sorry I can't be more help. Try asking your suppier or do a search for spindles like yours on the CNCzone and see if there is anyone who has the same spindle as yours and hopefully they can let you know the correct settings. Cheers Peter

[@tomd7515]

Thanks, Peter. :)

[@cncnutz]

+Tom D No worries Tom.

[@robbinghook3571]

My two cents. If the PD144 is set to 3,000 the motor will run between 6,000 to 24,000 RPM. Since most of the time I don't use anything over 18000 RPM I set the PD144 to 2250 and the PD011 to 100V. By doing so the motor speed can be maintained between 4,500 to 18,000 RPM. Even though the motor is rated 24,000 RPM don't push it to it's limit! On the other hand in any event one needs higher or lower speed that isn't in the range of the setting it can be easily adjusted through the PD144. After all the default value for PD144 is 1440 (with lower RPM 2880) I hope there might be some reason it was set to 1440 so I won't go below that. PD144 can be adjusted between 1440 & 3000.

[@cncnutz]

You can set PD005 to 300 and that will limit the top speed to 18000 but only after you have set PD003 & PD04 to 400 first and checking they are still correct but I don't know the advisability of doing this. This limits top speed of the spindle without screwing up the PWM in Mach3 or UCCNC. Setting PD0011 to 75 will set the lower speed to 4500RPM but I'm not happy to go below 6000 on mine as I'm worried about the cooling. I have a cunning plan for the future to lower my speed to almost 0 but that is a long way off at this time. I do agree that there is no reason to ever run the spindle above 18000 and even that may be too high. I really doubt that the bearings are rated for 24000 if the truth was known. I suspect that 1440 is the default for PD144 because these VDF's are used for more than spindles. I believe you can use them on standard induction motors which are run at 50hz. This is probably why the initial frequency is 50hz and 1440 is a standard speed for an induction motor at 50hz. So is 2880 depending on how many poles the motor has. There are probably more of these VFD's running 50hz 3 phase motors than there are spindles. Cheers Peter

[@robbinghook3571]

Thanks Peter. I can't wait to see how to lower the speed to 0. Which one controls the fan? Is it the PD0011 being set above 100 or the RPM being set above 6000?

[@graveurgraveur2691]

Can I ask for a link to the fuse you used to protect the spindle? I fear making mistakes with the settings. Thanks!

[@cncnutz]

I don't have a link. I just used a self contained inline fuse holder. Something like this..www.jaycar.co.nz/standard-duty-5a-3ag-inline-fuse-holder/p/SZ2015 I just put a 2 amp fuse in it until I got it running and then put a 10 amp in to suit my machine. cheers Peter

[@rickmccaskill7888]

Peter, how is the nonshield wire to the spindle motor working out for you? I the supplier you noted no longer has the wire. I was thinking of just using 4 wire 12 awg speaker wire. What do you think?

[@cncnutz]

Bad idea! Not because the cable is unscreened but because speaker wire is not rated for 220 volts. I have no idea what the current rating of speaker wire is either. So far the lack of shielding has not caused me any issue though it is probably waiting for the worst possible time to present itself. Idealy I would go for shielded cable if I could find it. Whatever cable you get please make sure it is rated for the voltage and current of your spindle. Cheers Peter

[@rickmccaskill7888]

Thanks I was planning using 16 awg 4 conductor cable. Can't seem to find the shield cable unless I purchase a 1000 ft. 16 awg wire is rated for 9a max at 50ft. Spindle runs 8.5 amp at 220V peak. I would like the shield, but can't seem to find it anywhere. What do you think.

[@Basshog1000]

Peter, it looks like you only have 120v going in to the VFD shouldn't there be 2 120v lines going in to the VFD? You have one fuse on one line.

[@cncnutz]

If I lived in the USA you would be right, but I live in New Zealand where the single phase voltage is 230 volts. Cheers Peter

[@Basshog1000]

So you are saying if your same VFD was in the USA it wood be 2 120v lines going in to the VFD. Is there no difference between yours VFD and my VFD, does it work either way?

[@cncnutz]

I'm sorry but I don't know. If I lived in the USA I would have considered a 110 volt version of the spindle to run single phase. I beleive that 2 x 110 volt phases give 220 volt but as I don't live in the USA I am not conversant with the electrical system. You would need to talk to an Electrician. Cheers Peter

[@Basshog1000]

Yes, I ordered a VFD water cooled kit and the pump is 220 and has a 2 round prongs on the plug. I never seen a 2 prong 220 plug. I assume the prongs were 2 120v prongs, I could be wrong. Do you know what this kind of plug is?

[@dptp9lf]

Great Video Peter! My pocket book is starting to wiggle LOL

[@cncnutz]

+Lyle Feucht Mine is limp and lifeless after getting the spindle.

[@bernienufc3166]

Hi Peter Would you put a lower setting in PD011 to get a lower rpm on a water cooled spindle than your 100 for 6k? cheers

[@cncnutz]

You can go as low as you like with a water cooled spindle. The reason for the higher setting on an air cooled spindle is to ensure that the spindle always turns to keep the internal fan running fast enough to cool the spindle. On water cooled ones you don't have that restriction because the water cools it. Cheers Peter

[@bernienufc3166]

Thanks peter, i put 20 in, but thought i would ask first before trying, thanks for the support.

[@rickmccaskill7888]

Peter, why did you go with an aircooled spindle over the water cooled spindle? Thanks

[@cncnutz]

I like things to be simple and running hoses is another hastle. I need to install a pump and make sure the water level never gets too low. I need to make sure the water stays clean and anti freeze is needed in winter. Water and power do not mix. Water and an MDF Tabletop do not mix. Yes I know that the system is sealed, right up until it isn't. Water cooled spindles are quieter than Air cooled right up until you cut something at which time it is the same. Water cooled spindles run at lower speeds but I find the air cooled spindle runs slow enough for what I do. Water cooled spindles don't blow air onto the work but oddly enough my Air cooled spindle running at 10000 RPM blows surprisingly little and you would be forgiven for thinking it wasn't blowing at all. I can't think of a reason why I would want a water cooled one over an air cooled spindle. I'm not saying air cooled is better but i decided it wasn't for me. Cheers Peter

[@rickmccaskill7888]

Thanks. Do you see it getting hot during long runs? I have the same concerns for water cooled spindle as well. By the way, I took your advise with the masking tape and glue to hold things down. Love it. Solve the problem holding small items. Thanks for your great video's. I made the Aztec calendar and it turned out great. Thank you

[@cncnutz]

+Rick McCaskill So far the spindle hasn't even got warm and that was after the 3hr run cutting the Aztec Calendar. I think you have me mixed up with Mark Lindsay on the masking tape hold down trick. Cheers Peter

[@rickmccaskill7888]

Well thanks for your great video's watch them all the time.

[@cncnutz]

+Rick McCaskill Thanks Rick

[@dangduttki6731]

what model your spindle? i wanna upgrade my spindle like yours.can you send me the link.thanks

[@cncnutz]

It is a cheap Chinese air cooled 2.2kw spindle. I bought it years ago off ebay and it was the only one the seller had.

[@NatureAccents]

@@cncnutz hello..why my VFD display keeps blinking all of the time?

[@saltwaterrook4638]

Apparently you weren't aware your display comes off the VFD to be used remotely...

[@cncnutz]

I am aware but was unable to find the required cable kit to do it. Cheers Peter

[@saltwaterrook4638]

CNCnutz (Peter Passuello) ah well then! Lol correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it just a fairly standard ribbon cable? I don't know as I bought a higher end VFD when I started researching these. If you ever decide to change your VFD out, the Hitachi or TECO Westinghouse VFDs are very nice. Well worth the extra money. Additionally, good series. Im currently wiring my VFD and implementing Gcode control so I don't have to mess with the thing at all.

[@cncnutz]

It is a ribbon cable but mine is glued at one end so I would need an extension Ribbon cable for mine. Also the kit comes with a holder for the display to mount in. I was planning on putting it in the door of the enclosure or up by my PC but it isn't really necessary now as it is PC controlled. I originally was going to manually control it but after doing the various auto control methods i thought i should give it a go and see if I liked it. Cheers Peter

[@saltwaterrook4638]

CNCnutz (Peter Passuello) Excellent. PC controlled is the way to go. Are you using a PWM to analog voltage board to control spindle speed with your Gcode? Or do these accommodate PWM input?

[@robhampton4929]

Hi Peter. Good video. I have had my cnc router for ages (about 4-5 years) but haven't done much. Mine came with the VFD+Spindle but no Cable. I found a place in North Melbourne Vic Aust. that sell the shielded cable in different sizes. The link is www.cablesplus.com.au go to their full catalogue page 23. I have been going Nutz trying to find correct info about programing/controlling the vfd/spindle from the pc and Mach3. . Cheers Rob (I am in Melton Vic Aust.)

[@patrickdunne4975]

Hi Peter, I followed your excellent instructions and the spindle is working as it should, but when I wired up for the handheld speed control and switch none of them works, I have read it 10 times and checked my wiring several times but it still will not work, I must be missing something simple, this is the cable I am using is it okay www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B06WW55YRV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1