Installing a Synthetic Standing Rigging Stay with a Deadeye | Sailing Wisdom

[@sailorsrpblc6625]

for about 1 year I'm doing a refit of my 33f sailing boat on a very tight budget and being a liveaboard @ the same time makes it even more challenging but I'm getting there. And since my mast came down 9 months ago I was thinking about Dyneema Rigging, and now watching countless hr of YT videos special yours and reading a lot about it. The decision for Dymneema Rigging is done, in 4-5 months when I'm ready to get the mast up I will do it by myself even with no practical experience. Here in Germany Dyneema Rigging is not so common and for this very hard to find anybody to help or getting advice. But with your YT videos, I'm very sure I'm getting it done. Thanks a lot for this!!!

[@Robinlarsson83]

How did it go for you? :)

[@cls9474]

If not mentioned already in other places: Synthetic rigging comes with a huge safety advantage: It can be cut with a knife when dismasted. A knife which should be in your pocket anyways. Dismasting usually comes with chaos in the cabin. Murphy will bury your hydraulic shroud cutter in the mess if it's not properly stored. This increases the probability of hull damage by the beating mast and boom (and a subsequent loss of vessel and life in the worst case).

[@mrmrlee]

As a newer sailor, the concept of tuning a rig and measuring tension has always seemed a mystical art to me. Nobody can really give me a straight answer other then "feel". Seeing him giving little tugs to the shrouds here and there to check tension shows me I've been doing it right all along!

[@RiggingDoctor]

I’m going back to the boat in three days. When I get there I’ll do a video specifically about shroud tension for you :)

[@mrmrlee]

@@RiggingDoctor Thanks!

[@Stenn333]

👍...very true, learn the "feel" of your stay tension...my Newport manufacturer's manual specifically says just adjust to feel for equal tension...no Loos gauge necessary....too bad I bought the gauges before I noticed that in the manual. When I tightened the stays according to Loos numbers per size of wire, it was WAY too much.

[@RiggingDoctor]

👍

[@normanhosford2506]

To check for port - starboard tension equality, pluck one and if tension is close to even, the other one will resonate. Resonant frequency is a function of mass, length, and tension. Mass and length are equal. If both have the same tension they will have the same resonant frequency.

[@RiggingDoctor]

This works very well with steel rigging but I just can’t seem to create an audible sound from the Dyneema. It could be my ears though.

[@TPLeary]

Hello Herbie I’ve like you videos on your standing rigging. I’ve been a professional rigger for over forty years and have seen many new ideas in that time. I’m a proponent of synthetic rigging and have done a few replacements over the last few years. I like to do any soft attachments as much as possible. Please continue to spread your hard work on this subject. Let’s be professional now, on some of your descriptions of the standing rigging. Specifically what you called “check stays”. Check stays are usually attached to the runners and support the mid section of the mast when you load the runners. In your arrangement we would call them “Standing Intermediates” or “D2 Aft’s” They would connect to the mast to support the staysail. Please continue to support the good word on synthetic rigging. “Safe travels”

[@RiggingDoctor]

Thanks for the clarification!

[@TPLeary]

@@RiggingDoctor your welcome

[@benlindner5285]

Thanks Herbie you have convinced me to stick with turnbuckles!😉

[@RiggingDoctor]

Your life will be much easier!

[@jefferyjeffery1707]

Hey Ben... I agree with you too. I mean rigging will gradually, always stretch. Especially if you've been sailing hard, or gone thru some good blows. That a screwdriver and wrench. I could re-tweak my rigging, in minutes, in a couple turns of the screw. Or unscrew it, to check it. Never had a turnbuck fail, with a little grease. I mean, synthetic lashings will fail as well from from salt drying in the fibers, and dry rot.👍

[@RiggingDoctor]

The fibers are some pretty nasty plastic fibers that will probably still be around when cockroaches inherit the Earth. I have actually seen Hayn turnbuckle screws with crevice corrosion in the threads, as well as crevice corrosion in the toggle to the chainplate. Deadeyes still have a steel toggle that can get crevice corrosion, so neither option grants you freedom from inspection! Personally, deadeyes are great if you are poor or on a really tight budget. They are inexpensive and get the job done but they are a pain in the stern to adjust! If the wallet will allow it, always choose a turnbuckle!

[@jefferyjeffery1707]

@@RiggingDoctor yeah...Hayne cast bronze turnbuckles will definitely corrode in salt water. Especially the open turn buckles styles, that arent barrel tubes. Ya gotta keep em greased. Every year I do a haulout, I open the turnbuckles and regrease them. I replaced all the swedged fittings, especially on the rigging lower end...as they quickly cracked in the Carib. Replaced them with Stayloc's and Norseman. I could even open them and clean em, and recaulk, or recut the cable, if needed, if it stretched. The fiber route, is less expensive, but becomes much more time intensive. And you can't open them to inspect as needed, without having to be redoing it all again.

[@TheSalMaris]

Not technically deadeyes, but lashing through thimbles--sort of in the style of a true dead eye. Very simple. I like it. Thank you you for this.

[@RiggingDoctor]

True, it’s stainless steel instead of lignum vitae 😉

[@bhartley1024]

Apparently they called them deadeyes because they had 3 holes, like the eyes and mouth of a skull.

[@pauliwali5056]

I must confess, my first impression was completely wrong; your vids are great, patient, informative and with the right amount of humour and off-train stuff too. After watching my first "Rigging Doc" vid a few months ago, the Parrot and Stick one, I watched it again yesterday and realised how simple and clear you made things with your stick-rig. Have since followed you're escapades from Toledo, to Madeira, to Sal, to the straights of Gibraltar, as well as this synthetic rigging vid and am blown away (if you'll forgive the pun). Drop into Howth Yacht Club, Dublin, Ireland and say hello when in the neighbourhood, as I'm sure you will be, sometime!

[@RiggingDoctor]

Thanks Pauli, I’m so glad you enjoy our adventure!!

[@chappyd5109]

Once again you have confirmed my view of the best channel out there. The detail of your work and instructions is the best. Even your visits to ports and city's are excellent. Having a private pilot's license myself requires much detail and knowledge of your craft. Most of the channels are about bikini's, beaches, booze, and makeshift maintenance. But you both are truly excellent in your own interests and craft. Well done...

[@RiggingDoctor]

Thank you 😊

[@lynxthehunter]

You can easily pull the end of the frapping knot through with a loop, no need for all that forcing it through with the marlinspike . Just place a loop under the perpendicular wrappings before doing those, then put the looped end of the frapping knot through the loop and pull it through under the perpendicular wraps. That is how traditional archers hide the ends of the lines used to fix the fletching to the arrow, they just don't pull through all the way.

[@robertling9872]

Thank you for this informative video. Educational to watch. Wish you beautiful trips and lots of sailing pleasure.

[@RiggingDoctor]

Thank you 😊

[@SVBlenero]

Rigging Doc. Many thanks for the education. While keeping the rig tensioned keeps the fibers moving and myself in tune with it, I’m at odds with the micro climates I experience in Northern Cal. If I have a 30 degree temp swing during a day, say 55-85, would a deck stepped synthetic rig turn into daily tuning fun routine. Light winds are not the norm here if the rig loosens.

[@RiggingDoctor]

That depends on how big your boat is. The amount of creep is relative to the length of the stay. On our rig, the mast is 55’ and the longest stay is a tad over 60’. We can see as much as 1/2” extra in the dead of winter. If the stay were only 30’ we would only see 1/4” extra in the dead of winter. I sail without issue over a +/- 20°F variance. I tune it at 80°F and I’m good from 100°F down to 60°F. Any colder than that and the rig is loose but not about to fall over. I keep the sails reefed and at 40°F I won’t go higher than the spreaders with the sails. I’m keel stepped so I always have the deck member helping hold the stick up, but being deck stepped you won’t have that. My suggestion would be: 1. Have turnbuckles so you can adjust it quickly, 2. Try and set it at 75°F on those kind of days. At 85°F it will be tight but not too tight as to break stuff and when it cools off for the night, the mast will stay up without any sails up. When your rig goes slack due to cold, all the stats expand at the same rate so your mast is still in tune (just a tad bit off to leeward while undersail) but it will still be in column. When the rig is loose, it is especially important not to have an accidental jibe as this will shock load the rig and since it’s loose, it will pick up a lot of momentum until it snaps to a halt and will most definitely break something in the process. *All of this is contingent on you having lateral spreaders (pointing straight out). If they are swept back, ignore all of this as you need to maintain 20-25% breaking strength tension on the cap shrouds at all times of the rig could fail! If you have aft swept spreaders, you need to stick with steel. If you have lateral spreaders, and do a combination of deadeyes and turnbuckles, you will be fine as long as you keep an eye on the weather and adjust the rig tension to follow it. -a trick for flipping seasons with a turnbuckle is to use electrical tape and mark the threads of the screws. Wrap the tape on the inside of the turnbuckle to mark your warm setting and wrap the outside threads of the turnbuckle to mark the cold setting. When it gets cold, you just pull the cotter pins and spin the turnbuckle until the “cold tape” reaches the turnbuckle. If it’s going to get hot, loosen it until the tape inside the turnbuckle touches the turnbuckle.

[@DowneastThunderCreations]

Herby, I've been toying with the prospect of using Dyneema for the standing rigging on the new sailboat I'm building, but I have no experience with using it. Your videos are an encouragement to give it a try. Thanks!

[@sailingavocet]

super helpful, right? what kind of boat are you building? sounds fun!

[@DowneastThunderCreations]

@@sailingavocet It's a small sloop of my own design (retired naval architect & marine engineer). I've been posting a series of build videos on my YT channel. Plans will be available free to anyone interested after the build is complete (estimated splash date around late August or Early Sept. 2020).

[@RiggingDoctor]

I am waiting for spring so the build can continue ;) Synthetic rigging would work really well on your new boat. It will really make it easy get it all dialed in

[@DowneastThunderCreations]

@@RiggingDoctor Thanks Herby. I found a YT channel called Kraken. This guy makes all kinds of bits and pieces for use with synthetic rigging. He custom made all kinds of stuff for Zingaro (that recently suffered catastrophic hull failure not related to the rigging).

[@DowneastThunderCreations]

@@sailingavocet Just checked out your YT channel and subbed.

[@charlespayne1061]

Thanks for the knowledge on that type of rigging.

[@RiggingDoctor]

You’re welcome :)

[@gmoose777]

Another informative video I have oone further suggestion on the installation of clevis pins and one for cotter pins. clevis pin heads and or bolt heads should wherever possible be up, outboard or forward. the cotter pins or split pins should where possible have a washer between the toggle or hanger leg and the pin that matches the toggle material, in your case stainless, this prevents the cotter pin introducing microscratches on the toggle which could lead to corrosion or cracking cheers

[@RiggingDoctor]

Very good points, and I really love the washer idea!

[@gmoose777]

@@RiggingDoctor your welcome 41 years in aviation has to be good for something and no point taking things you learn to the grave glad to be able to pass some of it on

[@svtazzeron]

Thanks for the practical how to on tensioning. Very informative to see the steps and straight forward thought process. As I sit here getting ready to replace all my standing rigging with new SS and turnbuckles, a timely reminder. My big concern with synthetic rigging is the reverse ? temperature coefficient. By that I mean as it get's colder, the rig loosens up? Seems a recipe for disaster. Has this been an issue for you? Note I am on a 36 ft steel sloop, so not much flexes right now. And I will still need a SS forestay for the furler, as I recall. Seems strange to mix and match.

[@RiggingDoctor]

The negative coefficient is a bit of a pain. Our Rigging is tuned perfectly at 80F. It works great all the way down to 60F. Colder than that and we just don’t go full sail. You can mix and match fore-aft, but not arthwatship. Steel headstay and synthetic backstay work well. Steel and synthetic shrouds will make a nightmare! Due to thermal fluctuations, the mast will always be out of tune. All of the shrouds have to be the same material so that they all expand and contract at the same rate.

[@NiklausWildisen]

Thank you so much for your videos! I found so many information on how I will do my rigging. But I remain with one question: why don’t you use a big round shackle connected to the chainplates to pass the lashings trough instead of the deadeye?

[@RiggingDoctor]

The breaking strength of a shackle is not high enough to support the loads that standing rigging demands of it. For that reason, I had to come up with a stronger connection.

[@NiklausWildisen]

@@RiggingDoctor thank you for your answer! But to connect the deadeye with the chainplates you use a rigging link toggle, right? Doesn’t that piece have the same breaking strength as a same sized shackle?

[@CheersWarren]

I take your point about using gauges but for a simple check or repeatability a gauge could be useful. Also for the less handy folks they have something to compare. Like if one of your chain plates is going bad or you have unseen chafe causing loosening you can have a simple way to tell. Applies to regular rigging of course too. Also I have found many people are afraid to tensioning their rig properly ( enough) leading to a dangerously loose rig in windy conditions . But I guess if your going to use synthetic rigging you will probably know a lot more........ Cheers Warren

[@RiggingDoctor]

I never thought about using it to “check” the rigging over the years. That is a really good use for it. Tune the rigging, then record the tensions on the stay. In the future, that’s your numbers!

[@ianallan2337]

Tension- also eye ball up the mainsail track. Mast should be in column. Also re-check under load. Same for mast prebend only from the side.

[@RiggingDoctor]

I do that! There is a huge difference between the mast tied up at a dock and the mast when going hard to windward! It has to be in column in the latter situation ;)

[@sailingavocet]

Awesome video, we are converting our smaller race boat to synthetic rigging - this was super helpful!

[@RiggingDoctor]

Glad to hear it!! Let us know if you have any questions during the process!

[@sailingavocet]

@@RiggingDoctor you are our primary source for rigging info lol!

[@RiggingDoctor]

👍⛵️

[@robertohofmann6939]

Binged in my spare time for a few weeks to get current, and it was fun and educational! I'm curious, in this instance, why an R-pin, R-clip, or Hairpin (whatever one would like to call it), wouldn't be a better idea than a cotter pin, though I defer to your Wisdom on this topic. :)

[@RiggingDoctor]

Cotter rings have a tendency to work themselves free which is a bad thing, but they won’t snag sails or lines. The first choice retaining pin is a cotter pin; but if it’s a high snag risk area, a cotter ring is the go-to (but it needs to be checked frequently to make sure it’s not working free).

[@mfournier12]

In the situation of the pin in the tang going head up. At the top of the stay it would be really hard to install that pin the wrong way as the space between the mast and the tang is smaller then the length of the pin. So if someone managed to put it in head down they would really need to try hard to put the pin in the wrong way around. But I get it’s general advise as in some situations like a shackle that swivels up you could put it in wrong easily so head up when the rigging is in its final position or the position it will be in when tensioned is good advise.

[@RiggingDoctor]

You would be surprised how many times I see the clevis pin set upside down up there when I’m doing inspections! These people really had to try and muscle the thing in there to put it the wrong way!!

[@allynonderdonk7577]

Once again I am impressed beyond words of this channel!

[@RiggingDoctor]

Thanks :)

[@mrzif0013]

great video. my new to me small 19' boat is missing the innner stays. I thought I would use soft rigging for a try. My thought is to just use a masthead or double clove hitch at/above the spreader bar and around to the other point on the deck. what do you think?

[@RiggingDoctor]

On a boat that size, that would serve the purpose. Just make sure that the area the stay ties to is solid and will resist the force of the loop going around the mast. If the section is hollow, you could buckle the side of the spar and break the mast.

[@bunyipdan]

Always appreciate a good rigging video (my OCD was peeking with the frayed ends) thanks for sharing, cheers

[@RiggingDoctor]

They used to bother me but they are 4-5 years old. I have learned to let it go :)

[@bunyipdan]

@@RiggingDoctor Suspect it might take me a little longer ;) no biggie

[@billfromgermany]

Hi, you are absolutely correct. Sorry to appear a smart-arse. 😉 However, I can’t help it, so here goes again. Crevice corrosion happens when the stainless is in an oxygen-poor environment, not generally the case for the rig components. With the major exception of the chainplates where they pass through the deck. I replaced all the chainplates on my 20 year old boat with nickel aluminium bronze. Expensive but I now have peace of mind. I did consider hi-mod rope for replacing the standing rigging, but decided eventually on stainless with swageless fittings. Easy with the old rig as a template, but I should not wish to have done it without that help. I find retuning the rig after re-stepping the mast is pretty time-consuming, and use a Swedish produced tension meter (about €100) to ensure correct tension. How do you do this with your set-up?

[@mrmrlee]

I wouldn't consider passing through a deck an oxygen poor environment. I would consider an oxygen poor environment to be keel bolts encased in epoxy. Now that's airtight! By the way he said he doesn't use any tension measuring gauges, only relies on feel. Because of the physical differences between the hardness of metal cabling and synthetic lines, I don't believe any commercially made gauges for metal cables would really function properly on synthetic rigging anyway. If you think of a steel cable under tension vs. a rope, you will always be able to pull the rope a bit more sideways IMHO.

[@stevebaigrie6399]

Very helpful video. I am re-rigging my 20ft trailer sailer with synthetic and can use all the help I can get. What is the purpose of the "shackle" attached to the tang. Why not attach the thimble directly?

[@RiggingDoctor]

The goal was to establish the orientation of the eye at the mast. The lowers needed it or they would rub each other in the tang, the others were just because they were already there, but they didn’t need to have them. When you re rig, the only reason you would need a toggle is because the eye would rub on something in the orientation of the tang and the toggle would turn the eye 90* and give you more clearance.

[@kirenireves]

Can you do a video on how to make a dead eye? Also, please give some guidance on line diameter for different size rigs.

[@RiggingDoctor]

Deadeye: [How to] Make a Dyneema Rope Ring | Sailing Wisdom kzbin.info/www/bejne/b16XcoyMbM9-iKM I will do a video about sizing your Rigging.

[@jmac2543]

Great tutorial. Could you use synthetic for the furling forestay? You mentioned synthetic for your inner forestay. What about chafe from hanks?

[@RiggingDoctor]

A chafe sleeve takes care of the chafe from hanks (our hanks have been rubbing on the inner forestay from Spain all the way to Florida) and so far there is no sign of concern, but I did also switch the hanks to soft hanks made of dyneema 😉

[@RiggingDoctor]

It hasn’t been properly tested, but I’m going to give it a proper test to find out because I don’t know either. I have thoughts on how it could work, but no experimental evidence on the matter.

[@airlincoln]

Great video...thanks! I have read when you use synthetic line for standing rigging, you need to size the Dyneema line for stretch rather than strength. Did you have to buy larger diameter line to account for stretch?

[@RiggingDoctor]

Yes, from a strength standpoint I could have used something as small as 5mm Dyneema, but I used 9mm. I go into great detail about how to size your rigging in the blog: www.riggingdoctor.com/life-aboard/2016/8/19/sizing-for-creep

[@SailingSisu]

very enlightening, thank you! happy that you covered the stainless steel shrouds too :-)

[@csteingraber]

Shouldnt the thimble be a block of metal with a hole drilled through so the surface shape perfectly matches the clevis pin shape to avoid point loading? They way you did it would likely have the thimble and clevis pin start to saw through each other until there is some surface area or they break.

[@RiggingDoctor]

I was worried about the point loading when I first set it up, but after 8 years and 18,000 nautical miles with no wear, I am no longer concerned about that issue.

[@SVRoquetta]

Ok, so I’ve watched your videos for a while now and they’re really great, just the right amount of detail. I have a burning question. Recently watched your 6mm dyneema splice video and made some fabulous new lifelines. Is there a formula for working out how much shorter the stay will turn out after it’s spliced? I was surprised.. would hate to mess up an actual stay..

[@RiggingDoctor]

There is: with SK78 it will creep back whatever it shortened With DM20 it comes out about 8% shorter than the buried lengths.

[@StemtoSternSailing]

Thanks Herbie you make it look so easy. I'm tempted to try out synthetic rigging. My boat has a fractional rigging setup, what I am thinking about is where the upper shrouds passes through the ends of the back swept spreaders, how do you get by this snag. Should there be some friction at this point or can it pass through a low friction fairleed thingy... And also i have a selden mast with T terminals on both upper and lower shrouds. Have you ever seen t terminals for synthetic rigging? Best regards from Jarle

[@RiggingDoctor]

For T-Ball fittings, you want to use this: store.offshorespars.com/search?type=product&q=t+ball You simply hook the rope into the ring of the T-ball with a toggle. The cap shrouds are seized to the spreader tip to prevent the spreader from folding up or down. I always service the section of shroud that passes through the spreader tip to protect it from chafe.

[@StemtoSternSailing]

@@RiggingDoctor Thanks

[@sailinggaia3582]

Hey Doc, Thanks to you I've managed to finish all 4 of my baby-stays to synthetic this weekend. Next is my cap shrouds and the intermediate stay about 2/3 up the mast. PROBLEM: Both stays attach to the same chain plate about 3" apart and I know my deadeyes will be too big and interfere with each other.. My current solution is to attach a 2nd shackle to give the deadeye a 90 degree turn and allow then to line up correctly. Do you have any suggestions ? Thanks !

[@RiggingDoctor]

The toggle to rotate 90° was going to be my suggestion. If you make them both rotate, they will be out of each others way and easier to set. Basically the deadeyes will be thin when you look at the boat from the side and wide when you look at them fore/aft. Congrats on building your own bullet proof rig!

[@sailinggaia3582]

@@RiggingDoctor Awesome ! That's exactly what I was thinking. Thanks again 🙏

[@runarandersen3439]

Hi Doc. Hope all is good out there on the oceans. Was hoping you could give me some advice..😊. I have a 28» sailboat, ALO 28. I’m getting new rigging, and there within lays my question. Would 6mm dyneema be enough? It is rated to 3.500 kg (7,700lb). Not sure about the SK, dosent say, but it is beeing used on car winches and such. Anyway, would 6mm be a good choice. 4 shrouds and the back stay. Hope you find time to reply. Fair winds. Best reg. Runar, Norway

[@RiggingDoctor]

There is some complicated math involved, but I can say that if the boat is tippy, it will use smaller rigging than a boat that is very stable. For the SK type, you want to get Heat Set (like New England Ropes STS-HSR). It happens to be SK75 but by being heat set it works better than regular SK78. If you want a more specific and definitive answer, you can email me at [e-mail]. I charge a consult fee of $120 and will go over the specifics that I would need to calculate the appropriate size for your rigging.

[@runarandersen3439]

@@RiggingDoctor Hi again. Thanks for your honest answer and time. Will look into the dyneema you mentioned. Best reg. Runar👍

[@richardbohlingsr3490]

My bet is for more synthetic rigging on sailboats as time goes by. Change comes hard and this looks like a better way than stainless cable and stainless hardware. Try swaging a stainless cable at sea. Oh well I guess I'll just wait till I get to port in a couple weeks. 8-)

[@RiggingDoctor]

Haha! And they even sell "Spare Stays" which are dyneema with a deadeye and lashings so that you can replace a broken stay at sea.

[@richardbohlingsr3490]

@@RiggingDoctor The only problem I see is if you want a furling jib. Instead of using hank on's for the jib.

[@RiggingDoctor]

Yes, the chafe if the foil is too much for a synthetic stay.

[@FeelItRising]

Doctor is in

[@AllMyHobbies]

You got to give it to the scientist the fact that they figured out how to make a plastic stronger than steel is impressive I don’t know if I’d want plastic rigging but too each his own. I guess the boats plastic too so that makes sense

[@RiggingDoctor]

I personally hate plastic, so it kind of burns me that we rely on plastic so heavily to go cruising! Like those old commercials used to say “plastic makes it possible”

[@AllMyHobbies]

@@RiggingDoctor ya it’s a funny material people seam to hate it but it’s so bloody useful that everybody ends up using it. i can’t blame the fisherman they are trying to make a living for there family and plastic nets and the like are just 1000% better then the other options. just like most people pick plastic boats over metal because they have so many benefits. Im impressed that you read comments from old videos well done. will there be a bigger boat for then there is a little one or will you do the land life thing.

[@RiggingDoctor]

We’re not going to be changing boats. I don’t understand how other channels change out their boats! We’re going to be heading back to the states and stay on this boat while we work on our other boat to get it ready for adventures 😉

[@AllMyHobbies]

@@RiggingDoctor if your not changing boats why are you working on a second one I guess I missed that update

[@RiggingDoctor]

Before we decided to go cruising, we bought a second boat to be a daysailer. It’s a 1966 Alberg 30 that we have had stored on the hard for the past 4 years now. When we get back, we want to refit it and kit it out with everything we have learned that you need to make it a proper cruising boat. We’re not selling either of them, we’re just twice as crazy by owning two really old boats!

[@philipdonegan9716]

Wow, great! You didn't include a link to the shroud wrapping knot. All I could see is that you kept looping the shrould "frapper" around and around, tightening it up every so often, but it didn't seem to include any actual knot to hold it in place at any stage, at each tightening point or at the end. What did I miss? Thanks

[@RiggingDoctor]

I forgot to put the link down below! There were cards that come up in the top right corner of the screen with the links though. Here is the link to the Shroud Frapping Knot video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/b6HXpqytqb2Alac

[@philipdonegan9716]

@@RiggingDoctor Thank you. I was so engrossed in trying to figure out what you were doing that I didn't notice the banner. I still don't really understand how you basically can get it to hold just by looping it around. I have to think an element must be the nature of the "small stuff" that you use. Also, who'd ever think that the seizing would hold the rigging without the rigging needing to be tied off. I'm amazed. A great pair of videos.

[@billys.5580]

My question is why there is no washer added to clevis pin to keep wear off of cotter pin/ring.

[@kevinmcbride7043]

Please tell me what happens when the rigging eventually gets old, and there is no crevice corrosion to alert you - do you get any warning of failure, or would it just go with a bang?

[@RiggingDoctor]

It begins to creep a lot, so one day (many many years in the future) the rigging goes slack and as it begins to stretch again. That is your warning

[@kevinmcbride7043]

@@RiggingDoctor thank you. I am very impressed with your rapid and helpful repies

[@ontiltsailingdalehudson7170]

Good stuff to know, thanks Herby

[@RiggingDoctor]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@felixbatton7179]

Looking at buying a 2010 Hunter 41DS that has original rigging in place. If I buy it, I am thinking about replacing it with Dyneema. Any suggestions on a good yard in the mid atlantic area to do the work?

[@RiggingDoctor]

M-Yachts in Annapolis knows their stuff!

[@samwhitmore8078]

Do you use any roller furling units on your forestay? Or only Hanks? I am looking for a suitable furler that will work with my synthetic forestay. Thank you

[@RiggingDoctor]

I’m going to be doing some testing on this setup in a few months when I finally get back to Maryland. I’ll keep you posted!

[@sailingcitrinesunset4065]

Nice video! Would you coat those lines with tar type stuff to seal it all ?

[@RiggingDoctor]

It’s not needed. The material itself is very resistant to the elements. Also tar (or slurry) will make a mess of your deck!

[@billfromgermany]

Two points: Most quality turnbuckles are plated bronze, not stainless. Agree on the cost factor. Second point, the thimbles used on hi-mod rope should be the closed type, not the open type use here.

[@RiggingDoctor]

The turnbuckle part is bronze, but the screws and end fittings will still be stainless steel. Ideally, sailmakers thimbles would be used because they can’t distort like these open ones can. The reason I didn’t use sailmakers thimbles all those years ago was because they were out of my budget. Five years of sailing later and my finances have improved. I’m going to be replacing our inner forestay (our only steel stay) with Dyneema in a few weeks and I’m going to be using sailmakers thimbles :)

[@alsadler4013]

I've been looking for a synthetic rigging how to video on how to do a synthetic forestay under a furling foil. Do you know of one?

[@RiggingDoctor]

There isn’t one yet. When I get back to the Chesapeake I’m going to do some tests on setups that I think would work. After those tests we will know what works and what doesn’t.

[@alsadler4013]

@@RiggingDoctor Looking forward to seeing it then.

[@CSMtheMariner]

Hey there! I am vey interested to see what you have a accomplished here. Would you like to have a chat regarding doing this on a much more powerful yacht? I am based in Nova Scotia and maybe a quick scan of my KZbin videos from 2019 will show you the boat I am looking to do this on- my Open 60 Falcon. She presently has PBO rigging but I am looking to change to SK99 MAX and will be doing it myself. She will be going around the world in November 2020-if you fancy a collaboration it could be fun!

[@RiggingDoctor]

Sounds like an awesome project! Have you considered DM20? It’s an amazing fiber. Email me at [e-mail]

[@maryetdave]

Wonder if someone can run a hybrid system , like having just rear backstays in dyneema and the rest in stainless. Upgrade as you go so to speak.

[@RiggingDoctor]

You can mix and match in that method, but when you get to the shrouds, you have to do all of them at the same time. If you mix the shrouds (steel/synthetic) you will struggle with keeping the mast in column as temperatures fluctuate. You can do all the shrouds on one side of the mast and have a steel side/synthetic side for a while until you finish the other side. That would work :) But the backstay is the easiest to switch out to start your synthetic conversion!

[@acena]

Will synthetic standing rigging pass surveys and consequently accepted by insurance companies?

[@RiggingDoctor]

It does, but it has to be in good condition, just like with steel rigging.

[@jamesadams1064]

Thank you for another great instructional video. I would assume that even if you have SS rigging you could use these dead eyes if your turnbuckles go south? Cheers Jim

[@RiggingDoctor]

You could, but you would need to have a toggle at the end of the stay to attach to the deadeye.

[@ianallan2337]

@@RiggingDoctor cut off swage then Norseman or Staylok marine eye +toggle?

[@DaveWarnock]

Are there any tips when your boatyard is taking your mast down or putting it back up with dyneema rigging? I'm concerned they have never put a mast up with synthetic rigging and wondering how to quickly attach the stays and get enough tension to hold the mast up before the crane operator gets frustrated. I've only seen videos showing changing the stays one at a time while the mast is up.

[@RiggingDoctor]

I've always done it one at a time with the mast in place since the crane is expensive! There is a deciding factor in the matter: Keel stepped or Deck stepped. If you are deck stepped, then you need the stays to hold up the mast or it will fall. If you are keel stepped, then you could technically have the mast hold up without any stays on it at all. For quick connecting, I would have the lashings ready to go and simply pull them hand tight with a greater emphasis on the lowers. They will do wonders for keeping your mast up and are easier to set by hand than the cap shrouds. I would tie them all off with a series of half hitches just to make it fast. Once they are all tied, have the crane go slack on its end and see if the mast holds itself up on its own. If all is good, the crane can disconnect and you can take all the time you need to get the rigging tensioned. If the mast starts to lean really far, then the shrouds need to be tightened a bit more before the crane sets you free.

[@DaveWarnock]

@@RiggingDoctor we needed to have both masts down as part of our refit. Eg to have old mainsail furling removed (it had been riveted to mast and was jamming). Plus all new halyards and more. Think will go for one more season with old stainless (too many other jobs to do), then we can replace one at a time. However, one day will need to take masts down (both deck stepped) for French canals).

[@RiggingDoctor]

When you do lower them for the canals, the synthetic stays will be easy to stow and not scratch up your topsides or deck while you motor the canals ;)

[@ratusbagus]

That's a Phillips Spike hitch.

[@MirkoLaici]

Bello there, Thanks for the video and my best compliment, I have to change my rigging to I was thinking to change in dyneema... do u think that could be possible on a 41 foot? Thank in advance Best regards

[@RiggingDoctor]

Very possible. We are 45 feet and rigged with 9mm Dyneema.

[@MirkoLaici]

Rigging Doctor thank you so much... I also isles to kraken and I told me that change from steam ball fittings to, I think iron plates, I difficult and expensive, to u think still a safe solution? Thank you again Hug

[@josea.ferradal2399]

0:34 minute. Can you tell , how the rig piece fix to the mast with screws?. Thanks.

[@RiggingDoctor]

It’s called a tang and it’s specially made to mount onto the mast. The good ones are actually bolted on with a backing plate to spread the loads out better while others are simply screwed on with a flange that wraps around the spar so that the screws are being pulled sideways in a sheer force instead of being pulled off. Remember, the aluminum wall of the mast is very thin so if the forces are not well managed, the mast will tear and make a big hole to fix!

[@josea.ferradal2399]

@@RiggingDoctor The rig piece that I see in the image is external to the mast, do you have a complete image of the piece in that installasion or a link to see it?.

[@789train]

herb did i miss it ? what are the sizes of the deadeye line and the frapping line? dm20, sk ? i heard the stay is 9mm ?

[@RiggingDoctor]

It’s all dependent on the size of the boat and the rigging loads. On our boat, the stays and deadeyes are 9mm. The shroud frapping knot can be tied in the smallest and cheapest Dyneema you can get. I switch between is 1.8 and 2.6mm Dyneema depending on which spool is cheapest. It just needs to be very small so that the turns are very tight so that friction is at its highest in the knot and the knot hold.

[@789train]

@@RiggingDoctor thank you

[@flydr2]

Why use deadeyes ? A D-clevis at the chain plate would do the same??? Lash from the stay to the D-clevis,. You may have a good reason for making deadeyes but I can't see it. Please explain...

[@RiggingDoctor]

If the bot is small and the working load is within the range of a D Shackle, then it will work. In my case, the WL needs to be around 20,000 pounds and a D Shackle that strong wouldn’t fit in the chainplate. Basically, if your bot is under 20 feet long, it’s safe to do. If it’s between 20-25 feet, you need to do the math. If it’s over 25 feet long, the loads are too high to safely use a D Shackle and you need to use something else. A deadeye is one option but it can be anything that is strong enough and still fits in the chainplate.

[@flydr2]

My boat is 38ft and my chain plates have 5/8' pins so 5/8 shackles can handle the load... Many thanks for the quick reply. PS: presently in New Caledonia... Will head east soon

[@RiggingDoctor]

Mine are also 5/8”. www.westmarine.com/mantus-anchors-5-8inch-stainless-steel-anchor-shackle-17751090.html?queryID=afa415d773a966dbe4e1b990c0c19bc7&objectID=17751090&indexName=production_na01_westmarine_demandware_net__WestMarine__products__en_US This one has a working load of 4400 pounds. In my case, I needed about 20,000 pounds for the working load. If you find one that can take the load, please email me a link (my email is [e-mail]). It would be much faster and easier to slap a shackle on the chainplate than to make a deadeye!

[@flydr2]

About the same working capacity as 10mm dyneema. Breaking at around 22k lbs. Remember working load and breaking are 2 different things.

[@flydr2]

Shackles for being used sometimes for lifting are rated usually at 20% of their capacity.

[@jg7749]

How you do the back and front stay?

[@RiggingDoctor]

Originally, they were all done the same way with the deadeyes, but I since switched the headstay to a turnbuckle to make life easier.

[@SurfaridelMarIzaakWarmenhoven]

Where did you buy the dyneema?

[@RiggingDoctor]

West Marine. If you buy it during Labor Day or Memorial Day sales, it’s a really good price!

[@RaySmythe53]

Thanks!

[@GordieGii]

Is that a bandage on your hand, or a tool?

[@RiggingDoctor]

I got a blister on my hand from pulling myself up the mast, but the bandage was handy for pulling on lines!

[@benjaminsmith5433]

How do you guys size your dead eye lashing material?

[@benjaminsmith5433]

Like, not the line you do your frapping with but the actual material that makes up the smaller line in the dead eye.

[@RiggingDoctor]

It’s a pulley system, so if you do 4 passes with the lashing, the load is spread over 8 strands. I size the thimble to fit 4 passes comfortably and the lashing material has to be at least 1/8th the breaking strength of the stay so that it is strong enough. I like to make 4 passes the minimum since the line is still small and easily worked with plenty of mechanical advantage. For heavier load stays, I do 7 passes, but using the same size of lashings as I did for the stays with only 4 passes. Basically: if you do a minimum of 4 passes, the lashing needs to be at least 1/8th the breaking strength of the stay.

[@ianallan2337]

Is line pre-streached?

[@RiggingDoctor]

This one was. If you didn't pre-stretch, then you will simply take the stretch out with the winch. If you are using one that is not pre-stretched, I would recommend keeping it on the winch because it will creep a bunch for a few days and if it stays on the winch, you can easily tighten it up as it creeps.

[@patappleton6285]

Some creepy kidds set fire to the wooden boat next to mine some years back. The heat was that intense it even melted the perspex port lights on the opposite side and one of the stays snapped. If I'd had plastic rigging the mast would have gone bye bye. Mind you if I had a plastic boat instead of steel it wouldn't have mattered the boat would have melted. So you have to factor in that one in ten million chanceyour neighbour burns to the water line.

[@RiggingDoctor]

😮

[@GordieGii]

You keep saying deadeye but I see thimbles. Does deadeye simply mean "not a pulley" in this context?

[@RiggingDoctor]

The deadeye is just a Dyneema grommet with two thimbles in it. They are not lignum vitae with hemp. You can check out the video of how they are made here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/b16XcoyMbM9-iKM

[@ianallan2337]

How does the synthetic line stand up against the sun?

[@RiggingDoctor]

According to the manufacturer: more than 10 years

[@ianallan2337]

@@RiggingDoctor I like your dead-eyes. I ran a freshwater boatyard for 30 plus years and have seen many many galled turnbuckles. Your dead eyes would certainly cure that! But rig tuning could get a little tedious each spring. BTW I never encountered a shroud failure in that time from crevice corrosion but then again this was fresh water. The racing guys love all this high tech line but mostly because of the light weight. My major concern would be the resistance to cutting or chafe with the highly stressed line. I enjoy your videos. Don't mean to argue, just a different point of view. Keep up the good work.

[@RiggingDoctor]

The 10 year replacement rule has an * and that is for fresh water. I saw a boat with 30 year old rigging that still looked like new! On the flip side, we bought an Alberg with new stainless rigging shortly before we left to go cruising. It's been sitting on the hard for 4 years now and the stainless rigging is dead! I will need to rerig it before we can launch it, and it's all the salt's fault! I wasn't arguing, I have just come to learn that there are three ways of doing things: One way, the other way, and the right way. The problem is that we only know one way and the other way!

[@umcosta]

This is the first time in my life that I like to hear what a dentist has to say.

[@RiggingDoctor]

😂😂😂

[@valentinionita4798]

Why don't sailors use hemp rope and tar? It is light is UV resistant aso.

[@RiggingDoctor]

Yes, but it rots if it gets wet for too long.

[@ratusbagus]

0:59 How many times do I have to tell you? It's "any red port left?"

[@RiggingDoctor]

I like that phrase :) Our hoodies are on the American system. I do like the phrase for the European system!

[@carloshall9836]

Well IALA-B damned!

[@larryboles629]

You are amazing. I am not sold on synthetic, but props for doing it right. Be happy, be safe.

[@pmnfernando]

synthetic fibres are the way forward, so much so that ppl in that industry say that we will look back and see these last 150 years of metal use for standing rigging, as an anomaly. Dyneema will become even cheaper, is it super easy to splice, you can carry spares to do your rigging twice over if you want, way lighter, 3 to 5 times stronger than steel (for the same diameter). cons: chafe and UV. for uv you have a sheath to cover it, (in time they will be synthesizing a fiber which will be highly UV protected to begin with) for chafe you need to know your boat, so it is easily avoidable.

[@larryboles629]

@@pmnfernando Im in the DYFORM group, but always open. I just dont see synthetic lasting long.

[@RiggingDoctor]

We shall see! Ours has 4 years and over 17,000 nautical miles.

[@pmnfernando]

@@larryboles629 excuse me for being this direct but that is like me saying that i work for Sélden and i dont see carbon fiber spars making it.

[@pmnfernando]

@@RiggingDoctor there are boats already coming up to the 10 year mark. im sure you will be fine with proper care and maintenance

[@atschris]

Good tips, but I think your inner laundry stays looked a little slack.

[@RiggingDoctor]

🤣🤣

[@DamianMurphy81]

Your installation of the cotter pin is incomplete you bend of the pin should wrap around completely not just a mild split of the pin itself.

[@RiggingDoctor]

Bending the legs really far actually stresses the leg right where it exists the clevis pin and makes the leg more prone to breaking off there. The result is the leg breaks off and offers no retention for the pin. Bending them just 15* gives enough retention without stressing the metal in the cotter pin.

[@ianallan2337]

Not according to Rod Stevens.

[@RiggingDoctor]

But according to Brion Toss.

[@ianallan2337]

@@RiggingDoctor Rod (and I) agree with you. (BTW I hate split rings). This comment was meant to appear after the initial erroneous criticism. :)

[@DamianMurphy81]

@@RiggingDoctor wrong I have worked in the aircraft maintenance industry for 30 years it applies no added stress. And if not installed correctly adds less protection.

[@danielswords5013]

This person calls himself a rigging “Doctor” based on what? Does he have any credentials? I don’t trust anything he does. This is the problem with KZbins.

[@RiggingDoctor]

I’m a Doctor and a rigger. Dr since 2012, rigger since 2014. I invented our system of rigging with synthetic and have tested it myself on our boat. These videos are the test in action. 17,000 nautical miles and 5 years on the same synthetic stays. Have a look at my website: riggingdoctor.com We are educational cruising, not beaches/beers/boobs cruising