Institutionalization & The Birth of Islamic Orthodoxy I Mufti Abu Layth

Taken from: Certain Uncertainty - How we look at things | Meaning with MALM Episode 36: • Certain Uncertainty - ...

[@Hamza000h]

I liked this

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To Nazam As He continues with the Halkqil Quran, He doesn't explain that this idea was in ANSWER to the Christians. But first you can see that when a New Belief arose the Main Body of Muslims did NOT say; Well Okay there is NO checklist you can believe what you want! No what they did and had to do was to correct this notion that rose among Muslims , especially those that started converting over from Christianity and brought these New Beliefs into Islam. And any belief that was unacceptable like cursing the wives of the Prophet and now saying the Quran is God needed to be dealt with. Islam is an ongoing set of rules that NEEDS to be re-evaluated to find the acceptableness or rejectfulness of Every NEW Idea (a Bidaa). Some Bidaa is correct and can be accepted while others CAN'T. And this is stressed upon so that Muslims don't go around adopting every new idea willy nilly without the proper Scrutiny. And I would like to say about the Quran being Created or Not that when the Scholars AFFIRM that the Quran is NOT Created they are ONLY referring to the Quran that is with Allah AwJ. That Quran which is in the Knowledge of Allah. Obviously the Quran has Statements of The Angels and Prophets and People even the Shaytan. So what they said has been recorded, which for them tp speak it had to have been Created otherwise they couldn't have said those things. Also When the Quran is written in the Preserved Tablet (LavhilMahfuz) it was CREATED in/on that Tablet. And when it was Spoken by Jibreel it had to be Created and then passed down to the Sahaba in Sound wave form and then WRITTEN down on material it had to be Created. We can NOT and do NOT have access to Anything that is WITH Allah AwJ that He has NOT CREATED YET! For us to interact with the Quran it has to be Created. So when the Scholars are speaking about the Quran NOT being Created they are talking about THAT which was WITH ALLAH AwJ BEFORE it was CREATED.\ And this is due to the Christians Claiming that ; Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS God; The Muslims were ANSWERING THIS QUESTION or CLAIM! And NOT whether the Quran that they had with them was Created or Not. But since the Ummah was wide and did not have the knowledge nor the wherewithal to comprehend what THE SCHOLRAS were Doing, they came up with their own interpretations of what was being discussed. As you can see that Abu Layth although well intentioned is erring in. P.S. I am not saying that everything that Abu Layth is saying is wrong. But you can and should evaluate everything he says.

[@Toronado2]

To NAZAM Salam Bro. Mufti Abu Layth is a pretty smart seeker of knowledge but everything he says is not actually the last word on Islam. He does employ critical thinking but that doesn't mean he can't be critiqued or corrected himself. And Every Muslim should be doing what he is doing to a certain degree. For example; He say around the 10:00 minute mark that; "There was No Definition, there was No check list. As long as you Don't curse companions, as long as you don't curse the wives of the Prophet, as long as you don't do this, you are from the main body of the Muslims. Okay so you may something like, I understand this thing like this And this like... (Shrugs His Shoulders) Nobody is checking, Nobody is there to CHECK that" Actually He has contradicted Himself and doesn't realize it. Because He has already said that quote; "As long as you Don't curse companions, as long as you don't curse the wives of the Prophet, as long as you don't do this, you are from the main body of the Muslims" Where did these negations come from? They came from the Scholars who actually DID the CHECKING and deemed it necessary to say that these things are WRONG, and if YOU do DO these things then you will have issues with being considered in the main BODY of Muslims. It can't be expected for the Scholars to evaluate EVERY thought that comes to a Muslims MIND! But if these thoughts or practices become prevalent enough where it starts becoming noticeable then the Scholars would definitely CHECK to see if this New thing is Proper or Improper.

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To Nazam When it comes to IJMAA, I don't think He has a good grasp on what IJMAA is and how it's used. He said that The Prophet Never Used nor Taught IJMAA! This is incorrect. The Prophet SAwS did Teach it But NOT under that TERM. In Fact The Quran teaches SHURA/Consultation and The Prophet Teaches and also Demonstrates it also in many Hadith. The concept and BASIS of understanding The OUTCOME of the Shura/Consultation when AGREED upon was Called IJMAA. IJMAA is when at Least Two or more people Agree upon a Matter. And Scholars used this as a TOOL to Strengthen or give Validity to their argument when their was a NEW matter or even when trying to convince others who were of a different opinion. All they needed to say was another Scholars Name or even NOT name every Scholar, that was more respected than themselves or at least their equivalent. And this gave MORE Validity to their argument or teaching. There may have been other Scholars that have disagreed with them on any given subject and people were free to follow which ever Scholar they preferred in most cases.

[@Toronado2]

To NAZAM So why are you Ghosting My POSTS NOW?