Intel ARC B580 | Star Citizen (vs 4060, 3060, 6700XT, 7600)

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Thoughts on this? Were you considering one?

[@kaisersolo76]

B580 looks good. I ilke how it handled the very high clouds. This game needs 12gb at the minimum. Vulkan implementation is not complete yet still awaiting multithreading that will help here in results. The 6700 xt is amd last gen card and still taking names here. I would make more of a point of not recommending any card with 8gb regardless of brand.

[@chrisdash83]

I bought one! The 580 LE. Hasn't arrived yet. Not exclusively for Star Citizen, but SC is the main drive for upgrading. Coming from a GTX 1060 3GB, so, .... yeah :)

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

@kaisersolo76 yeah the very high clouds was a good sign! Fair point about the recommendation!

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

@@chrisdash83 Exiting- I'd love to hear how you get on with it! Should be a big upgrade from the 1060!

[@theMedicatedCitizen]

I have a new build starting when my mobo arrives on Thursday, I opted for a 4070 Ti-S. I also swapped to a 7800X3D. Intel lost my confidence after my buddy's 14900KS and then 14900KF cooked, one after another. His second KF seems to be ok now though after the BIOS fixes

[@Highland_Muppet]

Just found you mate, love that you are checking out hardware compatibility with SC 👍 interesting stuff, look forward to future vids 😁

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Glad you found the channel- thanks for the encouragement!

[@jimashby43]

@@Highland_Muppet discord.gg/jNdRY2DR The discord channel is probably the teckiest around for star Citizen. Be warned, these guys can detect a neutron in a particle accelerator...lol 😂

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

@jimashby43 😆

[@LucidStrike]

Worth pointing out the 7600 XT has 16GB, so no, the 6700 XT isn't all AMD has with high VRAM in that price range. Good on you for testing tho. 👍🏿

[@_TrueDesire_]

Bought the 7600 XT, uses about 13GB-15GB vram at 3K (Alpha 3.24, I haven’t tested 4.0 test phase). Im glad AMDs framegen saves me 🤗. When I ran around in A18 system ram peaked at 29GB of my 64GB.

[@catbertz]

My man working hard over here! I never expected to see Intel's card getting tested n Star Citizen, though I'm glad they're looking reasonably relevant in the budget space. Competition is good. Come on Intel...compete! 🤣

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Yeah it would be good if we had another gpu manufacturer competing! It will be interesting to see how Nvidia and AMD respond with their new budget cards! Hopefully this will help with prices!

[@TheKrumstuff]

Recently went from a 3070ti to a 4070 ti super. Doubled my VRAM and it's a beast

[@blamsmith]

Ive seen vram usage in SC reduce by almost 2gb in 4.0 PTU. So you may need to redo these once 4.0 goes live. Great info in the vid! Looking forward to the 4.0 numbers!

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Great info thanks, yeah I'll definitely be doing a lot of 4.0 testing once it's live!

[@blamsmith]

@@tenpoundfortytwo I run a 7600 and the performance in stanton is crazy good in the last few patches on PTU. Never seen frames this good! (DX11 btw)

[@Seanenanigans]

@@blamsmith Have you tried in Vulcan for comparison?

[@minecraftprovie5076]

@@blamsmithhave a 4080S and it feels so much worse than live. On pyro stations especially. ~25fps on a 7800x3d. It’s unplayable

[@blamsmith]

@minecraftprovie5076 oh yeah, Pyro is a joke from an optimisation stand point. What bothers me is now we are getting more vram in cheaper cards; the games companies are going to skip optimising their games even more.

[@JagHiroshi]

BTW, Intel are aware of the Vulkan issues as of Alchemist - I raised the support case.

[@drnicko988]

Been googling for an SC bench on this card since it came out thanks so much for doing it! Shame about Vulkan it apparently its alot faster running Vulkan in other games aswell. So very much looking forward to the 4.0 bench to see if it changes!

[@Korvorkian1]

I've been real curious about answering this question as my old 1080ti might get replaced by this....

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Ah I nearly included the 1080ti in the testing- ran out of time in the end! But based on my previous testing (kzbin.info/www/bejne/rZzIcneCd8igoqM), it would be a side grade. Add in the issues with the Intel GPU, I'd stick with the 1080ti for a bit longer!

[@SHenanegenz]

Good to know. 1080 here as well

[@APEXPR3D4TOR]

i would still advise waiting imo better hardware will come when game is finished and optimized

[@jason156]

I picked up the A750 last year in a Black Friday sell. At the time, it was a bit of a painful transition due to (IMO) driver maturity. There have been plenty of driver updates since and it runs SC well enough that the A750 is not my bottleneck. I would not hesitate to go with the B580 and if other parts of my pc werent overdue for an update, I might have already bought one.

[@jason156]

@@APEXPR3D4TOR I would not make any purchase decisions on "when this game is finished and optimized". I am not convinced it will happen any time soon.

[@gp8231]

Some users have been reporting that weirdly they get better performance using the highest “photo realistic” clouds, perhaps due to optimisation? Would be interested in your findings on this.

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

That sounds unlikely, but yeah I'll test the clouds once 4.0 goes live! I try to avoid testing on the PTU where possible, but if 4.0 doesn't go live this week I'll have a look!

[@timschalau8425]

arc a770 user here and i experience the same thing not only in sc but in other games too. it seems the arc-gpu performs better under heavy load then having only less to render.

[@randymorris5296]

The B580 is shaping up[ to be really nice budget card for gaming! Otoh, now is NOT the time for CIG to spend development time on card-centric tuning, at least until Intel's drivers mature.

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Yep that sums it up well!

[@Tainted-Soul]

Thanks again for putting your own money on the line to help CIG and us backers to find what works and what don't. I hope CIG know about all your hard work

[@ssilver88]

Great video! Hopefully Intel or CIG can figure out whatever issue is causing the stutters. This card is a killer value in the current market and gives a lot of hope for future B700 class cards!

[@vrk661]

I really appreciate your work as it is unique to star citizen community ❤

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Thanks for the encouragement!

[@SP95]

Can you add the amount of VRAM for each card on your next graphs please And thanks for the quick coverage of this card, let's watch Intel enjoying themselves for one month before AMD and Nvidia move onto the next generation lel

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

That's a good call, thanks! Yep next gen cards are going to be interesting!

[@owd200]

Doing God's work here my man

[@JagHiroshi]

I've got an A750 and it's okay, but I'll wait for the B770 for the upgrade. I agree entirely about shader compilation impact.

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Yeah that should be an interesting card!

[@Hugh-Janis-EMP]

I like that for two years they were like Vulkan and gen 12 render is going to be amazing but it under performs dx11 by 10 to 20 fps consistently.

[@Tomas91709]

Good to see that Intel gpus dont have issues on sc

[@reamoinmcdonachadh9519]

Inability to take on Vulkan by an Intel GPU is a biot of a deal breaker for a discreet GPU.

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Yeah I was disappointed when it kept crashing! Hard to know who's job it is to fix- it might be CIG's!

[@jimashby43]

That was good. I really have not followed intel gpu unless someone casually mentions it on the discord channel. And I know for a fact the RX 6800 has never ran as good for SC as the last patch has provided. The most recent experiences ive had, a few events. Still crashed a few times, but overall the smoothness has been good enough i have not looked at the fps.

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Yeah its feels like a strange thing to be reviewing an Intel GPU! I think sometimes not looking at the FPS is the right way to do it!

[@sjoervanderploeg4340]

The "real" minimum is 6Gb, but in general the 10Gb that my 3080 has is not enough and if I artificially limit the reported memory you get some weird things happening with textures if you go below 6144Mb!

[@sjoervanderploeg4340]

PCI "BAR"'s are memory barriers set by a device, it is a Base Address Pointer and points to a specified chunk of memory "outside" of system RAM but inside the virtual addressable space so that when you write memory to that region you are actually writing directly to the PCI device.

[@OriginalDagic]

Please keep these videos coming it's the new crisis for gamers essentially. Even though it's not well optimised. 😅

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Yep it does seem to be the heaviest thing out there at the moment!

[@BlueSpectre]

we need the card to succeed though, and be adopted to create competition for nvidia and amd, them throttling and controlling the market is bad for our wallets. the drivers will improve over time like with amd and i would love to see this card in every budget minded build over the next year.

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Completely agree!

[@IronHellion]

I think the B580 is going to outpace the 4600 because of the vram alone. I do suspect there are still driver issues with Intel at the moment, but for the price point an upgrade from a NVIDIA 10 series card it absolutely worth it. All this said intel has been working very hard at getting driver right with Arc. I think it just a matter of time. My biggest hope is that this puts some pressure on low to mid range cards for NVIDIA. It's about time for their BS to come to an end with their pricing schemes.

[@Ace-Brigade]

Could you add whether or not dlss and frame gen are on to your graphs? Could you also add at what level dlss is set to if it's being used? If they aren't being used, could you just maybe put something indicating that it is fully rasterized?

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

For GPU testing I don't use frame gen or upscaling, so unless the graph shows otherwise assume they are off! But I'll have a think about how to better communicate that!

[@Ace-Brigade]

@@tenpoundfortytwo Awesome. Thank you for the reply. I wanted to assume that but.... we all know what happens when we assume right. :-)

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

@@Ace-Brigade yep worth checking!

[@snissclark]

whats better? 3070 or the 6700x for star citizen, CPU is 7900x and have 32g ddr5

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

@snissclark With the 3070 only having 8GB, I'd probably avoid those. I have a 3080 10GB which is still very good at 1080p and 1440p. The 6700XT is pretty perfect for 1080p but there are other AMD options in the 7000 series that have plenty of VRAM: www.amd.com/en/products/graphics/desktops/radeon.html

[@snissclark]

@@tenpoundfortytwo I already own both cards so until I can afford an upgrade that's the choices I'm lumped with, hoping the nvidia 50 series cards will be available soon

[@Crittek]

The question is Star Citizen now or Star Citizen a year or two from now? In the near future where we have raytracing, I still think Nvidia is the only option. Buying hardware as a holdover for a future upgrade is typically a waste of money. The only exception I’ve ever seen was the bitcoin craze where you could actually profit from your old GPU purchase.

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Yep raytracing is going to be very interesting! Not sure when it will arrive, but it might completely change GPU recommendations for the game.

[@Crittek]

@ I’m hoping they’ll design their raytracing to have the game require an RT capable card. This will greatly reduce dev time. I’ve done manual placing, falloff adjustments, dynamic hierarchy, etc. and it’s friggin painful. To just be able to place lights, look at the outcome and performance and move on will get us MUCH more locations faster. I believe Indiana Jones and the Great Circle is the first game to actually do this.

[@stuartthurstan]

The B580 looks like a really solid choice in general but maybe not for SC in particular right now. Worse case it holds it's own against the 4060 whilst showing significant advantages in certain situations. Nvidia are putting just 8gb on the 5060 too. That card is going to be DOA. It's already pretty embarrassing that the 3060 provides a smoother gaming experience than the 4060, but if that turns out to also be the case with the 5060 that's going to look really bad. I run SC at 1440p on a 3060 and with quality upscaling I get a 55-65fps experience. I can totally live with it.

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Yep the 5060 only having 8GB is an odd choice. I suppose there are plenty of games out there that don't max 8GB out, but it's not going to be a recommended GPU for many people. It's going to be interesting to see how the 3060 ages- upscaling and the 12GB vram should help a lot!

[@wrextheblind3787]

I wonder how these compare against a 3060 ti, I’m not very knowledgeable on pc parts

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/hXuxkmusoLCsotE this would give you a rough idea of how the 3060ti would fit in!

[@wrextheblind3787]

@@tenpoundfortytwo oh sweet thanks I’ll check it out

[@FritzOFN]

Is not Vulkan still only single threaded in Star Citizen...thus the lower frames vs DirectX?

[@Scenethroughalens]

I run an a770 and used to get much better performance with vulkan (which was to be expected) - but a recent update just broke it where the game crashes when loading if vulkan is switched on. The drivers didnt change, a cig update just broke it.

[@beeleaveme]

Me watching and playing SC with my RX 570 4GB, everything is fine 😊😯😊😱🤗

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

If you're happy then it's fine!

[@WarlockSRB]

...how do you make Vulkan work on AMD? I found that only 24.8.1 driver can work with Vulkan, anything newer and it CTD ASAP at startup. Wiin11 24H2 here, RX7800XT... Cheers

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Hmm, I just switched over with no issues! On the latest drivers, I had wiped the previous drivers with DDU, so I guess there's a chance that helped.

[@trainedmanmonkey4310]

I also have not used Vulkan since the 3.24 update. I have a 7900xtx and none of the suggestions people have had work. I thought it was just not working this patch.

[@svgPhoenix]

Turn off everything in the AMD control panel except enhanced sync(vrr) and try it.

[@SvalbardSleeperDistrict]

Haven't ever had any crash with Vulkan on my RX7800XT.

[@TheArmosius]

Try installing the basic driver. No adrenalin software. That's what made vulkan work for me on my 7800XT. Very strange that just having Adrenalin installed makes Vulkan CTD on shader compilation.

[@hannoversa]

I think we are. The question is: Is SC ready for us?

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Almost definitely not!

[@ingeonsa]

The 3060 is also 192bit vs 4060 128bit memory bandwidth. The 1080's were all 256bit

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

A very good point!

[@1jbrady]

How does resizable bar effect the 3000 series on star citizen ? I've just enabled it on a 3080 12gb , not sure I need to do anything else, do I need to use nvidia inspector or should the latest driver auto use it if it beneficial

[@1aatlas]

I bought a 5600xt in 2020 but today it just doesnt cut it and due to current prices im seriously looking at intel. *stars align*

[@Allcyon]

Why no 7900 XTX? There's a 4090 up there.

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Cost! I did buy a 7900XTX when it released, but it had the hot spot temperature issue so I returned it. The 4080 is plenty to max out the cpu at 1080p and 1440p, I just can't justify the cost of a 4090 at this point!

[@Seanenanigans]

I am a avid SC player rocking a 2080. I decided I will not upgrade computer again until, my GPU brakes or the game releases version 1.0

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

2080 should still be plenty powerful enough! I wonder how it will hold up with the 8GB of VRAM over the next few years. I would like to pick one up for some testing at some point!

[@RealBrickzTv1]

Will a rx 6700xt & ryzen 7700x run sc?

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Yep will run pretty well (for SC)!

[@RealBrickzTv1]

@@tenpoundfortytwothank you so much, keep up the amazing videos 👍💯

[@Ha1rD1aper]

i was playing with a buddy and from what they were saying it seemed like 12GB+ just handles the texture and shader load better. sounds like can somewhat power through with the higher clocks of higher end cards, but also looks like there is still a performance gap between higher end cards with more than 8GB vRAM... Intel hardware is probably ok for the most part, but drivers aren't there yet. maybe next generation. safer bet for 2 more... 13th and 14th Gen intel CPUs have been pretty iffy, so intel might just have to take it from AMD in both ends for next bit. Nvidia just happy for the break to lube up for Computex lol

[@TOXICGURR]

why not test the 6950xt?

[@demonicsquid7217]

He needs to have one first. I've got one myself but they are pretty rare as they weren't popular with gamers as anyone willing to spend that money on a GPU was going to buy an Nvidia card.

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Yep don't have one! The higher end parts just cost a lot more so I'm much more limited in what I can buy!

[@TOXICGURR]

@@demonicsquid7217 I have one too. Xfx one. I thought people didn’t buy it because the specs were so similar to the 6600xt or something like that. I can’t remember. I would just like to see where that card stands on performance with the other cards even tho it’s a CPU game. I have a 5800x3d pair with it. 32gb ram

[@TOXICGURR]

@ ah okay. I keep seeing streams skip over the 6950xt to test and always use the 6700xt etc and I’m like ‘am I the only one that have this card’ lol

[@N1ghtR1der666]

I am sure it is good for SC, especially since performance is completely CPU bound, min to max settings including screenshot mode for clouds all the way down to the lowest resolution makes about 5-10 fps difference so frankly get whatever car you want

[@minecraftprovie5076]

Clouds on photo mode almost doubles GPU usage (from very high). But SC is really so badly CPU optimized I can turn it on with my 4080S and don’t really loose any frames

[@jckl9884]

6 cores benchmark pls. 9600x, 7600x3d.

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Can't get the 7600X3D here unfortunately! I focus on the 8 core parts, but yes some 6 core testing would be good to do!

[@CUPv0]

Vulkan on AMD cards on Linux has been largely unusable since 3.24.3 PTU, causing crashes on most configurations. Discussions in the SC LUG seem to suggest this is a CIG-created issue and the current community AMD Vulkan driver on Linux, which apparently follows the Vulkan API very faithfully, is not tolerating whatever problems there are in CIG's implementation of Vulkan. Sadly it's been a while since anything Vulkan has been in the patch notes.

[@tomfoolery1967]

My Nvidia 3080 TI crashes all of the time if I use Vulkan as well. I don't think it's an Intel thing. My friend has an AMD 7600 XT and he crashes on Vulkan all the time as well.

[@CitizenScott]

Kinda what I figured. PC Gaming KZbin are just desparate to heap praise on anything that's not Intel/Nvidia. Thanks for the data!

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Yeah it's interesting watching all the reviews. I've only found one that was reporting significant issues. Will be interesting to test again in a few months!

[@SvalbardSleeperDistrict]

1) This is results for SC - not really representative of general GPU gaming performances 2) Who can blame hardware reviewers for heaping praise on AMD CPUs while they are performing great and Intel is having one disastrous result after another?

[@justalex4214]

I hope amd and intel are going to push into the high end market sooner rather than later. Nvidia is completely out of control with their rumored pricing and tdp for the upcoming 50 series...

[@TALLA300CforumZ]

for 400 $ stil not a bad card

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

The B580? It's $250! Very good option if the issues get worked out!

[@TheGlassSword]

Have you heard all this hubbub about the Nvidia app slowing FPS of games by

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Yeah saw a hardware unboxed video that seemed to suggest that the overlay is the issue!

[@danielc9312]

Anything has to be better than my GTX 1080 🙈

[@FrancisFjordCupola]

I wouldn't call any particular card "good" for Star Citizen. It's a moving goalpost of unoptimized proportions. As for impact of VRam? Look at the 4060 versus the B580. Near identical frame rates (51.1 vs 50.9 average and 20.0 v 19.4 lowest). Getting more vram doesn't help a bit. Even worse, look at the 4080 vs the 4060. The 4080 has over double the oomph, the raw power. In Star Citizen it can only get out 33% more performance. The whole game is limited by its own bad coding. Having said all that, the B580 has more "future potential", which is always a gamble. It's probably a nice card.

[@JoshDoubleU]

im just waiting for a cheap motherboard i aquired to replace my 10600k with a 5700x3d, i have a 7800xt and the 10600k bottlenecks it, and with christmas around the corner i cant afford/justifiy an upgrade to AM5, so 5700x3d cheap motherboard and a new cooler, offset the cost by selling 10600k annd im nnot even much more into the build and i knnow i will get 2 more years out of the 5700x3d.

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

The 5700X3D should be a nice upgrade!

[@johnbattyll6874]

Josh isn't the 5700x3d an AM4 socket CPU? Would not want you to get the wrong Motherboard.

[@JoshDoubleU]

@@johnbattyll6874 i got a B550 tomahawk for cheap :D like i say im just waiting for it in the post as we speak, expected tomorrow

[@johnbattyll6874]

@@JoshDoubleU awesome. Just looking at you OP and it had AM5, so I was a little worried but looks a good AM4 Mobo. 🙂

[@JoshDoubleU]

@@johnbattyll6874 yeh only thing im worried about is the bios flashback that i probably will need to do to get the chip to work, watched countless videos on it, got a USB formated in fat32 that is already an MBR disk and has the bios file renamed MSI.ROM. paranoid isnt the word.

[@ChristianKlasen-mq4rs]

Stop throwing money at CIG. Don't buy new pc components to get from 33 trash lagging fps to 42 also trash lagging fps... It isn't worth it. Stop pledge ships. Buy presents for your family instead. Chris isn't worth any trust...