Intel's 285K Disappoints Arrow Lake FLOP - Performance Issues, Overpriced, and Crashes

[@SiliconSteak]

Buildzoid put it well on X “> Be intel > invent fancy new chiplet packaging tech > put all the cores on 1 die > put MC on different die for that multi die latency” 🤦‍♂️

[@MrEdioss]

memory would suffer long time with everything going chiplet, only laptops with monolithic dies would oc better if we could oc on laptops. and they need it more for iGPU

[@joemorgan8436]

The chips will improve and bypass AMD

[@SiliconSteak]

@@joemorgan8436 if they don’t jump off of Infinity Fabric you’re 100% right. They probably will at some point tho

[@CyberneticArgumentCreator]

It wasn't an accident, it's part of this bridge generation that uses TSMC instead of Intel's foundry. They had to plunk alien cores into their die instead of having a homogeneous one-foundry architecture. A jerry rigged die to shrink the process and stay in the ballpark of AMD across most use cases. I will bet big money if this +20 latency stat ends up being part of Arrow Lake and isn't mitigated by code or scheduling, that it flat out doesn't exist on the first entirely-made-at Intel Foundry generation (next one, if their schedule stays). It isn't something you overlook, it's the type of thing you know is there but have to include because of mitigating circumstances (jerry rigged stopgap hybrid TSMB die). That said, it's still a fine chip for most people. You aren't going to hit CPU bottleneck unless you're building with a 4080Super / 7900XTX or higher GPU, and even then it's going to be a very high bottleneck. Add onto that the fact that Intel is actually on the ball every generation and will likely aggressively fix the microcode/scheduling issues, unlike AMD which takes years. It has a high probability of ending up the same as its AMD peer SKUs across gaming and productivity. "Fine wine" hurr durrr

[@Lennox032]

@@joemorgan8436 🤡🤡

[@zdspider6778]

Error Lake.

[@saricubra2867]

Piledriver Lake (Meteor Lake and Lunar Lake are Bulldozer).

[@mikeree8543]

I heard it is really good! Intel out sells 9000 series! 😅

[@CyberneticArgumentCreator]

@@saricubra2867 They'd be Bulldozer/Piledriver if they were half as fast as AMD. Instead, they were generational leaders and a wonderful performance jump.

[@saricubra2867]

​@@mikeree8543The only good thing is the NPU and iGPU. The CPU part iself is mediocre.

[@spleenpedersen5039]

The 285K is sold out in North America, Japan, and some others Asian countries. Beside, we know now Windows 10 22H2 and 11 23H2/24H2 have issues with this generation, specially with the Threads Scheduler … After all, can you explain us how a 285K with 1P+16E-cores could outperform the same CPU with 8P+16E-cores ??!! Naaah ? You can’t ? …. Ofc you can’t … Because you’re too stooooopid to understand how a CPU or an OS works !

[@astrea555]

I'm happy to see cpu performance from both manufacturers are stagnating a bit. This will force devs the optimize a little. you can just upgrade later, this is only disappointing if you need to make a new pc right away. Besides not that I buy Intel's excuses but they really did need to get their efficiency in order.

[@willsk3122]

You say that but technically zen 3 and 4 got a 10% boost which basically means everyone that owned one of them just got was basically a generational uplift.

[@ZackSNetwork]

@@willsk3122The uplift helped Zen 4 and Zen 5 as well.

[@liberteus]

"this processor needs tuning" Nah. I want to buy things, plug them and they work. So do 90% of the consumers. 9800x3d will just work, even if it's not better than 7800x3d.

[@henson2k]

True, even special Windows scheduler for CPU makes me sad

[@joeykeilholz925]

Tbh 99% of customers at this point. Auto oc has become good enough for cpu/gpu and ram tuning is a micro niche

[@iLegionaire3755]

AMD: 9800X3D is confirmed 11% faster in gaming than the 7800X3D, and 15% faster in productivity. Unlocked OC and a total 3D-VCache redesign where the 3D-VCache now sits at the bottom of the 9800X3D CCD's instead of on the top stacked, like the 7800X3D which prevented OC headroom. The 9800X3D will overclock I bet to at least 5.70 GHZ so its a no brainer for gamers. That may widen the gap between the 7800X3D even further. If we can find a 9800X3D to purchase anyways, it will sell out the day it launches at this rate in moments! Do I even need to mention that the 9900X3D and 9950X3D will BOTH feature 3D-VCache with the same redesign as the 9800X3D, but across EVERY CCD for a massive 3D-VCache increase, with some speculating the 9950X3D in particular will have a staggering 180MB to 200MB of 3D-VCache! Intel: 285K looses to both the 14900KS and Zen 3 5800X3D in both productivity and gaming, priced at the same or double the price. DOA!

[@betag24cn]

to be fair, most will need bios updates and there migth be problematic ram modules that people will report, but i think you are rigth

[@zdspider6778]

Me: "I thought chiplet design meant lesser cost to manufacture than monolithic and those savings will be passed on to the consumer, right?" Intel: [J. Jonah Jameson laugh]

[@CyberneticArgumentCreator]

AMD makes the most expensive consumer CPUs. Where did you hear it was cheaper?

[@zdspider6778]

​@@CyberneticArgumentCreator With a chiplet design there are less inherent risks of breaking when slicing a silicon wafer into smaller chunks. And since they can obtain more (smaller) pieces from a wafer, it means better yields, per wafer. Meaning you don't throw out as many "left over" pieces of it like you would with monolithic designs. Less waste = less cost. And less cost (for them) means they can either: 1. make them cheaper (more competitive) 2. pocket the profits. Intel board members had a real tough decision on that one! Since they're like 2.5x more expensive than what they should be!

[@CyberneticArgumentCreator]

@@zdspider6778 Okay now read what I said. If it's cheaper to use chiplet designs, then why are AMD CPUs more expensive than Intel CPUs? Shouldn't AMD, a company twice as large, be passing along the savings to the consumer?

[@saricubra2867]

Sandy Bridge i7-2600K: first i7 K with monolithic Ring Bus. My Alder Lake i7-12700K (330USD new): first i7 K chip and 12 core x86 chip with Big-Little and monolithic Ring Bus. *"IF AINT BROKE DON'T FIX IT"* .

[@stormrider01]

DRAM speed is irrelevant if the CPU is slow.

[@MrEdioss]

but the memory controller is fast, supporting 10000mhz, but at latency cost, AL has bad memory latency

[@NootNoot.]

Think this more applies to AMD in the past few years. Even when high end boards can do >8000MT/s it's still bottlenecked by the IF. If AMD just replaced their IOD making the memory controller much better than it is now, with a new generation of Infinity Fabric, that may just have more of a significant gaming performance uplift than IPC, moving to Zen6 tbh. But from the rumours, it seems we're getting Zen6 + new node + packaging (that hopefully improves memory bandwidth/latency), so fingers crossed a better gen uplift than Ryzen 9000 (but Intel has done this exact same thing so really no expectations for now).

[@johnlong6197]

The fanboys will reach to every straw possible, And it’s not to their benefit in the long run. Your just giving intel permission to sell you trash.

[@YouTubeAccount-i4m]

We need to wait longer for something worth while which is so lame but my two year old 13700k does 5.8P/4.6E overclocked faster than 14900KS so I’ll stay winning for awhile more.

[@DarkSoul45456]

yeah the 13700k/kf are still the best intel beast

[@7lllll]

the launch date of arrow lake, october 24, 2024, is among the most important days of world history, taught to children around the world over the centuries. it is the day moore's law officially died

[@rdg665]

It hasn't, AMD is still going great.

[@mrxcs]

​@@rdg665Well, not really, 9000 is the same of 7000 but more efficient. The rumors says 9800x3d is up to 20% faster, so I expect 10% on average. It seems pretty stagnated to me. That's expected, we are so close to the physical limit, we need a new material like graphene.

[@saricubra2867]

Also the year when Intel created their own Bulldozer (Meteor Lake and Lunar Lake) and Arrow Lake being Piledriver.

[@NadeemAhmed-nv2br]

​@@mrxcsI mean u could make the same argument when for 7 years, intel total Ipc improvement was under 10% total. That's almost a decade with where all the improvements combined basically only did what the 9800x3d will do alone, Of course, that was a false declaration and I believe we will once again hit a breakthrough that will buy us maybe a decade or two more just like how tsmc/ryzen did, back in those days

[@mikeree8543]

9000 isn't selling well compare to Intel. Intel 14700 k selling 2000s in Amazon. 9900barely hits 500 units. 9600X TO 9950X MAY ABLE TO HIT LESS THAN 2000 UNITS PER MONTH. So sad for AMD is not selling even though most people likes it. 😢

[@impuls60]

The cpu works as intentended, they just a designed a product few wants to buy.

[@kuekejuu5057]

yup, like there's almost no bad product, just bad pricing, and i know some people that can only use intel because of software demand.

[@Riyozsu]

If it was intended to compete with alder lake and 5700x3d. Then yea it's competing well with 3+ year old platform

[@peterwstacey]

Exactly, this architecture will be great for $100 CPUs in office PCs. Whether they can do ok performance for that $ remains to be seen when TSMC are the fab.

[@YouTubeAccount-i4m]

Bios updates and optimizations in windows will make a huge difference but I’m not “upgrading” lol. Maybe when series 300 comes out (next release)

[@DreadyBearBoi]

In gaming it absolutely does not work as intended. People are disabling cores in specific orders to get more performance. There are issues with software and scheduling.

[@abaj006]

When the RAM kit cost more than the CPU 😢

[@obic123]

That's their downfall right there 8200mhz for work station just don't make senses you cap yourself to 96GB .... for 700$ CAD ... like what the fuck is that.

[@discoverychannel1o1]

Why does he still recommends Intel CPU’s? For gaming it’s obvious at this point in time and amd is better. I’ve been gaming on PC since 2002. Always go with the best option just like when bulldozer was around Intel the best option. Going with 14th gen on a dead platform you’re just wasting your money.

[@Icy-zk9rh]

True... But I still used it... I still have faith... You never know until the end. As long you keep holding on. You can make them a second chance. I know desktop is what all people are talking. I used Laptops. I'm not disappointed. I have i7 14700HX. When I ask about the Instability and Faulty Micro code. They say it only happens to the Desktops K line. I have no Instability issues at all. Their mobile Intel Core Ultra CPUs are great for me. I know that Most of you are probably picking PC nowadays. I'm not saying that you should be switching to intel. I'm just saying that, I still have some faith in them and give you my experience and remember my experience is only in Laptops and I'm not a Fan about PC because I like portability. And I know the Heat of the laptops is not great but I have a cooling pad so it's not an issues. And listen I'm not giving an argument with you. I'm just telling you my experience.

[@Lemard77]

Well a 13700K for the discounted prices is better than the non 3D ryzens, the downside is the extra cooling needed.

[@iLegionaire3755]

AMD at long last, is no longer the underdog! Intel has become the best advertisement for AMD Ryzen that AMD never expected.

[@betag24cn]

i was searching information about the possible purchase of intel by qualcomm intel is valuated rigth now at 120 billions or 100, didnt understood well, it used to be valuated at 270 billions, like 2 years ago amd is valuated at 250 billions, yes, not a underdog anymore, time to demand from amd lower power consumotion at load and idle, better performance on gpus and better prices, so they dont become the new intel

[@auritro3903]

AMD wasn't the underdog since Zen 3 was released. The writing was on the wall for Intel since then.

[@MYNAME_ABC]

Ryzen3D!!

[@eg9574]

Warhammer example is not good mate, good reviews DON’T apply “custom script fixes”, they review the “out of the box” experience because MOST ppl will not be applying or editing custom files. Not to mention by your logic I could say the same thing for AMD CPU improvements when it comes to games, plenty of “custom tweaks” for AMD CPU’s out there as well.

[@joeykeilholz925]

Guess they fired the people that do the tuning at Intel

[@noticing33]

😂😂

[@TV-xv1le]

Intel is finished in the DIY market now for at least the next 2 to 4 years. I wouldn't be surprised if system integrators start abandoning them. Intel needs an absolute banger of a gaming cpu to come out. I'm talking about an out of the box banger that doesn't need tuning, which 95% of people dont care about.

[@Mtsung3]

Don't know if AMD is doubling down on high performance and efficiency gains for desktop users either, else we wouldn't have ended up with Zen 5% with leaps in NPU performance. I think we're simply in the world of "AI eats first, humans second" with every major tech company

[@itsprod.472]

This is Intel’s Piledriver era 💀 idk how they can even afford building a new Fab compound with failing or lack luster consumer chips unless their server / A.I stuff is taking off

[@CyberneticArgumentCreator]

Bulldozer* was literally half the speed of contemporary Intel silicon. It was GARBAGE. Hardly the same as Intel having the best multicore productivity performance at every price point but being very slightly behind in gaming at launch before microcode/scheduling patches bring it up to parity.

[@betag24cn]

im not sure if such comparison is possible here because amd ended uo making bad decisions that made their cpus perform worse, but those cpus are still working today on aloy of peoples pcs you cant say the same with the two previous generations of cpus, in five years only few will want second hand 13 and 14th gen cpus the loss in performance is interesting, but the reputation and the second hand value are gone

[@Mike-wb2ie]

So is there a fix yet for when i try to load games with EAC?

[@JDD_Tech_MODS]

If you squint really, really hard you can see the "parity" in gaming over Raptor Lake only when there is a FULL TRIPLE SUPER MOON while rubbing a unicorn's tail and holding a 9000 leaf clover.

[@oneanother1]

They should release a raptor lake refresh CPU on tsmc node. There's no way arrow lake will survive until the next CPU gen release.

[@Loppy2u]

Pumped up P cores edition.

[@saricubra2867]

​@@Loppy2uNah, it's the loss of hyperthreading and monolithic Big-Little.

[@CyberneticArgumentCreator]

@@saricubra2867 Hyperthreading isn't the issue. There's some scheduling or latency thing going on. Otherwise gaming, which can be happy on 8 cores, would be FASTER without hyperthreaded cores alternating their work.

[@saricubra2867]

@@CyberneticArgumentCreator "Hyperthreading isn't the issue." It is, just like how a 9700K loses against a 3700X in 1% lows in some games and i think the gap is wider now.

[@CyberneticArgumentCreator]

@@saricubra2867 Are you referring to the Intel 9700k which was launched in 2018 and the 3700X which was launched a year later? The 9700k on 14nm process while the 3700X was on 12nm? The 3700X with 32MB of cache while the 9700k had 12MB? You're attributing a tiny increase in 1% lows alongside a fairly large loss in average FPS to hyperthreading when all of those other factors are right there?

[@tommybronze3451]

Wait, a product shall provide complete performance out of the gate, not that you need to know some secret handshake to actually get 100% of what's advertised - if you do, then it's a scam.

[@freedomearthmoon1]

At the end of the day, gaming is irrelevant to 90% of the world and the CPUs are a only a flop for gamers, Its a shame that so many have myopic vision

[@KevboKev]

THANK YOU!!! I stopped gaming over 3 years ago, and I can't get many answers on how this CPU performs for anything else. I now orchestrate music, and am building a new music production PC, coming from a 4790K. I am due for an upgrade, and looking at the 285K. I want to be able to have 50+ tracks, running multiple VSTs, FX, etc. I know I can get a last gen as well, but I don't upgrade often, so looking to get the best I can at the time of building.

[@ux-ss6ds]

Skymont aka Cinebench accelerator 8x INT ALUs are REAL.

[@przemysawukawski4741]

@@KevboKev Why not go Zen5 then? It is much more power efficient and faster in non-gaming workloads in many places. I don't really see a benefit in this new generation from Intel. Zen5 also has AVX512 support, which can help in many workloads, audio processing also.

[@KevboKev]

@@przemysawukawski4741 The only reason I have not considered AMD is because, at least in the past, I've read many articles and forums of issues with different virtual instruments and AMD. With that said, the latest AMD 9000 series completely made any instrument with iLok Manager useless and not work. However, I did see last night that it appears motherboards have put out a BIOS update that fixed that. I guess my own reluctancy is in knowing if all my virtual instruments will work within Cubase 13.

[@johntipeti4597]

yup morons. enterprise corporate mass deployments hp dell salivating at the thought of productivity with power efficiency for their billionaire global client companies. all those employees on sff arrow lakes will be very happy. what you state is the truth of the world. there are a lot of gamers but not every one of them can afford a cpu like this or the amd equivalent. companies and corporations can though it's just drop in the bucket investment for them & they WILL buy these

[@JamesSmith-sw3nk]

Wendel from Level 1 tech is optimistic there will be great gains for gaming from microcode and Windows updates because of Arrow Lake's strong Cinebench performance. The problem for Intel is few people will buy something now that might work well in the future. "Maybe" don't sell well.

[@vladimirljubopytnov5193]

But cinebench is immune to inter-core latency, as it is a perfectly parallelizable task... Unlike game engines..

[@CyberneticArgumentCreator]

@@vladimirljubopytnov5193 Are you implying that there is no way to have normal latency and that this latency was never noticed during billions of dollars of design time? And are you also implying that it cannot be fixed by scheduling similar tasks or code execution to the same cluster to limit latency?

[@vladimirljubopytnov5193]

@@CyberneticArgumentCreator Are you implying, that "during the billions" they noticed a latency bug and kept it there for initial reviews? It's the chiplet tax.. and scheduling is hard. We have hybrid/multiccd CPUs for ages now, still struggling, and after all that time it is question of microcode update? I mean, for sake of us all, I hope Intel kindly unplugs it's head from it's rear and does something to save arl and market competition. At least the frikkin APO. But extrapolating game performance from cinebench is more of notorious Wendell's optimism rather than a realistic implication.

[@betag24cn]

if we depend again on microcode it means intel released another bad product half baked and nothing can change that fact another microcode fiasco that they caused if level 1 said that, it tells me their opinion is irrelevant or there is money involved somewhere

[@JamesSmith-sw3nk]

@@betag24cn I'm thinking that Wendel knows a lot more than you do.

[@GustavoNoronha]

10:50 I think this misses the point of what the reviewers are trying to do, though... they are not trying to look at what's the best performance a user can squeeze out of a build, but what you get out of the box. Both are relevant, but the out of the box experience is relevant to way more people, as tuning / OC is a bit of a niche.

[@gamerdudegamerdude4961]

wow, intel making you pay premium as beta tester for arrow lake? that's harsh.

[@chaosc34]

For a basic gamer/computer user without a masters in computer engineering this cpu out of the box at this time is not worth the money/hassle.

[@MaxIronsThird]

It seems Panther Lake might be coming to Desktop next year, so that will be ARL's successor on LGA1851, also they seem to have moved the IMC back to the core tile.

[@bauer9101]

Being outdone by a company with vastly inferior resources is quite frankly embarrassing.

[@CyberneticArgumentCreator]

AMD has twice the market cap of Intel. They are not the underdog.

[@iLegionaire3755]

@@CyberneticArgumentCreator Only recently did AMD stop being the underdog. Intel spent years bribing companies to steer clear of using AMD processors, this is simply just Karma working naturally.

[@Waldherz]

@@CyberneticArgumentCreator bauer9101 said not a single word about market cap.

[@noticing33]

​@@CyberneticArgumentCreator cap isn't the only resource lollll

[@cherub3624]

​@Waldherz It was implied, if you have a brain. The higher the market cap of a company, the more money that is in that company, meaning they can afford more resources. This is common fucking sense.

[@EDARDO112]

This looks like copium to me, they use the same setup with AMD and Intel, if Intel needs a better memory and tuning it is inferior period, the bad reception is warranted. Intel is a company and it's being paid I don't know why some people treat them as a charity or something, If they want my money the better do better.

[@betag24cn]

rigth now, intel nerds the charity as a amd fanboy i must say that your cpmplaints were once heard but about amd, so.

[@SahnouneKhaled]

Poor robert hallock..leaving AMD was a great mistake 😁😁😁

[@blueeyednick]

yea maybe ill buy this cpu in 10 years for 20$

[@migus926]

Hearing the names made my expectations really low, can't believe they went lower

[@YuNherd]

maybe well intel did want to rush a product to make investors happy so here we are

[@betag24cn]

investors will never be happy again, company lost well over 50% value and they did not paid dividends this year, they made this to avoid lawsuits

[@drimiteros_21]

So, the next ultra release could basically include the same CPUs but with overclocked eCores and a dynamic disable of pCores that leads to better performance while producing less heat and consume less power...🤔

[@betag24cn]

that is a option, but if they are having latency problems for usong chiplets and how they split parts on different chiplets, it wouldnt be fixed in one year, 2 i think i am not sire of intel will be around that long, not how it is now, no.

[@MmntechCa]

Intel really did need to focus on power efficiency, as it's been a problem for years. Like we used to make fun of the Pentium 4 and PowerPC G5, but they run downright frosty compared to the Core i9s of today. Since mobile and data centre are their biggest customers, it makes sense to put the focus there. That said, the fact that these very expensive CPUs are getting beaten by mid-range Ryzen chips from two years ago is a downright joke.

[@charlesnix8314]

I might just have a 13600K, but it works with zero issues.

[@panjak323]

I do wonder if the latency would benefit from disabling power down mode... It did by 10ns on my monolithic R7 5800H.

[@vladimirljubopytnov5193]

My friend bought 265K (central europe has availability... but we have higher prices in general...). AIDA latency is around 115ns@6400MT/s, 32-39-39 timings.. on an MSI...

[@DaShaneo]

Aside from low performance. I sent the 265k back because I can't confirm the 1851 socket had any longevity. One and done?

[@DreadyBearBoi]

Btw for 285K supply it’s gotta be regarding binning, and 9950X is also capped around 5.7ghz needing a lot more voltage to go any further. Purely speculation on my part but I don’t think TSMC nodes have as good voltage scaling as Intel ones still which is likely to do with the clock regression and lack of 285K’s on the market. Might be gimping the entire design on desktop among other things.

[@henson2k]

Does anybody tried to test new Intel CPUs on non-Windows OS?

[@BreakingDimes]

Windell from level1tech did he mentioned it wasn't much difference vs windows

[@betag24cn]

to see if linux saves the day? lol, intel wont be saved by linux

[@bodasactra]

Now that both companies new gen CPUs gaming numbers are out, it sure looks like 5000X3D will be relevant in high quality gaming for another gen. Nice video!

[@foch3]

They need to make a desktop only tile with memory controller and compute on one.

[@Greez1337]

Massive architecture departure into chiplets and big little design.... Double woof. These chips just reek of mobile AI focus. Honestky winder what tweaking could even do to make this consumer desktop viable to anyone in the market over say a 9800X3D, 7800X3D ,a cheap 13th gen or 14700K and 9950X for a do it all system?

[@DreadyBearBoi]

The reason why Arrow Lake is sad is not because it’s flat Gen over Gen in gaming. It’s because it’s flat Gen over Gen and they didn’t wait until it consistently managed said result so they could actually claim that is what is happening. I’m sure over time they will fix it to function properly but this more or less ruins a good portion of the generation for no other reason than rushing it.

[@a120068020]

The sad thing is, the 13900k/14900k voltage spikes seem to be finally be under control and temps are under control now which makes benchmarks more predictable than bouncing against thermal limits. The best Intel chip now is the 14900k (I won't say KS because that may be touching the limits of this generation and I had to RMA 2 of them, admittedly before the latest microcode and BIOS updates). Certainly won't be upgrading my 14900k, my family 13900k machine or my work office 13900k system.

[@betag24cn]

the sad thing is not it is undet control the sad thing is that intel felt like releasing a product that señf destructs was rigth, and they did it for 2 years, because aprt fron that the 13th gen had oxidation problems and it seems that servers were affected top, not only the voltage part it was a disrespect for everything in a scale that easily can destroy that company, imagine tell cuatomera to try again and again with the warranty, the ceo knew the company hamdling warranties was going to deny the warranties the secobd hand value of those cpus is destroyed, you cant recomend those parts to anyone and feel fine woth such purchase decision

[@ErockOnTech]

The 285K is certainly a bit of a let down. Like you said, it seems like a bad year for new CPU launches. Well, we have the 9800X3D incoming. Let’s see if that delivers. Good video as usual!

[@techwandoUS]

Thanks for the update man. Solid coverage as always.

[@karlstenator]

This whole fiasco reminds me of the time when I bought a 9700X two weeks ago with zero regrets.

[@JahonCross]

Then why is it priced so high?

[@betag24cn]

intel is close to banktupcy, they need the money, but they wont get it this way

[@Pix-m5u]

the example provided of the 7800x3d losing is with 5200mhz vs 8200mhz

[@pablosanmartinvarela1773]

This is the kind of video I like! Critical commentary on what is out. (Vs. speculation about what may come.)

[@derenbong]

They did this on purpose, desktop market is small, they rather spend the money on tsmc for notebooks and their own foundry for the server market.

[@iokwong1871]

It is almost funny how many didn't see that like you said. I mean I would have a hard time seeing tons of people getting the i9/u9 level CPU. They are either high end gamers or Home Lab owners. (Or server provider who provides "home labs".) That Market is relatively small. The roles of such a CPU in ever since the first i9 is more or less because some kind of king of the market space. And in this case, single thread performance. So it is really not all that "bad", it is leading to something that is recorded breaking. Well it gets beat soon, maybe? And we can all agree that it is not a product that will suddenly save Intel. Lunar Lake might, but we will see.

[@derenbong]

@@iokwong1871 yeah, it’s like a luxury product before alder lake and zen which really has home production usage, pc hardware enthusiasts and gamers need to accept the fact that Intel, AMD and Nvidia don’t care about that segment, it’s someone casually sprinkling bread crumbs to bunch of pigeons.

[@betag24cn]

desktop market is not small, and a win on desktops means a sale on servers, who is going to buy the loser part for a server? laptops are not that important, not when compared to servers

[@derenbong]

@@betag24cn servers have different demands, 😅

[@derenbong]

@@betag24cn and Intel manufacture their server chips in house,

[@michaelnichols2192]

We should all wait for optimization of drivers and os

[@kkrolik2106]

Ultra 5 slightly faster than My old Ryzen 5 7600 that I bought a year ago for 167 € for 2x+ Price increase I see regression

[@betag24cn]

i cant believe the intel prices, they are delusional

[@pvdgucht]

Yeah intel needs to add cache with this new tiles approach. That will have massive latency, performance and efficiency impacts. I think the new Intel core tiles design could be really great with more cache, it has potential!

[@pvdgucht]

I spent a lot of money on a Z890 master so really hope that the motherboard will last at least two generations and that the next generation will have more cache so that I can slot that one right in.

[@LorDTestMe]

AMD is gonna smoke Intel this gen it seems.

[@Accuaro]

For gaming? AMD has been smoking Intel since the 5800X3D, and Intel still won't give us long platform longevity.

[@MrEdioss]

I hope AMD gives us at least 12 core chiplets in this/next generation to make the core jump since zen 2.

[@saricubra2867]

​​@@Accuaro13600K beats the 5800X3D and destroys it in power efficency, iddles at 5 watts and all core productivity is way, WAY faster. Easily air cooled. The 5800X3D has one massive flaw, the clockspeed jitters so much and the sillicon quality is not good. It hasn't aged that well. The 7800X3D meanwhile has no weaknesses.

[@TheApantosa]

@@saricubra2867 i dont think so....

[@warcrabcyber9908]

​@@saricubra2867lies , first of all the power consumption of the 13600k is much higher. It's higher on idle , higher in gaming workloads, higher in productivity work loads. Go look at gamers nexus ultra cpu review, he compared the power draw of the older intel 13th gen and 14th gen vs zen 3 ,4 and 5 There are also no clock speed jitters on the 5800x3d , why fabricate lies ? I have a 5800x3d and I don't have any issues with stability or clock speeds Infact it is the 13th gen and 14th gen intel cpu that have instability issues , it is known , with the cpu crashing , the mouse freezing on the desktop, the only stable intel cpu was the 12th gen.

[@fleemwings207]

Arrow Lake was a disappointment because Intel has not made significant progress since Alder Lake. It is even more disappointing when you know that they have moved from 10nm to 3nm process technology. Arrow Lake is a beta product at best. It will need more development before it can see prime time.

[@simptrix007]

I want to get better multicore performance but if 9950x3D doesnt simply do it all out of the box with solved core parking, cross CCD talk and access to the L3 cache I will have to stick to my 5800x3D till Intel or AMD release such product that would work as expected on the lastest Windows version. Platform upgrade is going to cost me above 1k so they have to deliver great product in the first place.

[@arturoreyes5220]

My 13600k is a beast

[@bios9678]

As I mentioned before, buy a 13700k and call it a day. Set fixed vcore out of the box and llc4 along with 307A and 253w limit. Found one for new $220.00, no brainer compared to this platform

[@ofon2000]

good video...still bizarre how bad their CPUs seem to be. Hopefully it's something a BIOS and/or Windows update can solve it mostly.

[@Adromelk]

>Crashing on attempting to merely do a fresh install of Windows. OMEGA OOF!

[@spleenpedersen5039]

The 285K is sold out in North America, Japan, and some others Asian countries. Beside, we know now Windows 10 22H2 and 11 23H2/24H2 have issues with this generation, specially with the Threads Scheduler … An other video of KZbinrs who don’t know what they’re talking about ! After all, can you explain us how a 285K with 1P+16E-cores could outperform the same CPU with 8P+16E-cores ??!! Naaah ? You can’t ? ….

[@johntipeti4597]

thats right ! they sound like moron shills kneejerking off

[@noticing33]

Intel has to cut price by 25% to be competitive

[@nivea878]

failure lake

[@darreno1450]

HUB and GN did really thorough tests and these processors sucked for gaming overall plain and simple. Having to 'tune' and manually overclock to get the expected performance is a sign of failure.

[@carolares]

not to mention that 90% of the users will never enter bios or buy 8000+ ram to raise a trashy 245 performance...If zen5 percent was a flop, then this error lake is a disaster

[@iLegionaire3755]

Agreed, 7800X3D does it all out of the box! Minimal tuning required.

[@adi6293]

The problem with this thinking that you could just tweak the CPU is that X3D chips exist 😅 with just enabling XMP you get chart topping performance on a cheap motherboard and ram kit so why bother? 😅

[@roccociccone597]

I will be very honest. The gaming performance is ok. I said this about Zen 5 and I’ll say it about arrow lake. The gaming performance is good enough especially for people who don’t just game.

[@rossmclaughlin7158]

They rushed and half backed everything since their 10nm woes and last couple of generations it's really showing

[@frozencold199]

I dont know why you would reccommend buying any kind of intel cpu right now (16:00). Unless you are buying used and getting a good deal (I wouldnt buy any kind of 13th or 14th gen used). Worse performance and less effecient in every single benchmark compared to amd Technically speaking, this is the worst time to buy an intel cpu in almost 20 years lol this is intels bulldozer

[@noticing33]

They thought using less power is all they needed to do lolll also no SMT clearly hurt them.

[@elizabethiradukunda1950]

It's befuddling that a company the size of intel can still make such basic rookie mistakes after 14th gen i thought they learned their lesson this is what happens when you take an engineering company and give it to MBA's who care about nothing but share price i downgraded from i9 14900 k to i7 12700 because intel refused to admit they had messed up with the i9 14000 and refused to take responsibility i'll wait for a few years and then go for chinese Loongson - never again will i spend a dollar on any intel processor

[@markissboi3583]

DaaaD a blokes selling his Pc for $500 Yeah ok son but does it cOme with a delided cpu No its old Tell him his dreaming OK dad DaaaaaaD yes son i dug a hole Mum yes dad The lads an idea's man :)

[@abhishekmaurya4665]

Rushed, this thing was a zen4 x3d competition

[@AshtonCoolman]

If investors pressured Intel leadership to release Arrow Lake unfinished then they've shot themselves in the face(not the foot). That decision was tragic given and may end intel

[@BlubberBuddha]

well just look in the Gaming industry where nearly 90% of AAA Games get buggy and unfinished released. This just happens cause of the Investors

[@HoldinContempt]

Your flagship 8 core loses to your three generation old 6 core. Thats worse than AMD bulldozer. Thats the biggest disaster you could possibly have.

[@Loppy2u]

Intel is definitely getting split up now. Buyers market when sold off and undervalued.

[@benc3825]

It's honestly impressive what Intel can do compared to AMD with chiplets. Zen 2 and Arrow Lake are very similar situations overall. 1. They both got a 2 node family jump for the compute. Zen 2 was 14nm(GloFlo 14LPP/12LP) to 7nm(TSMC N7P) with 10nm being skipped and Arrow Lake did 7nm (Intel 7 Ultra) to 3nm (TSMC N3B) with 5nm being the skipped node family. 2. Went from monolithic to disaggregated in between the CPU gens. 3. Memory controller and IO move to a separate die from compute For the differences: 1. Packaging: Zen 2 uses basic 2D packaging with high latency, low bandwidth, and poor energy efficiency. Arrow Lake uses 2.5D packaging with a silicon interposer. I am using Zen 4's numbers, because Zen 2's infinity fabric numbers have been a nightmare to find. Below is the actual number comparisons for the packaging with Zen 4 being the left most Power Consumption: ~1 vs 0.15 to 0.3 pJ/bit (6 to 3 times lower) Die-to-Die Latency: 13 to 15 vs 5 ns (3 times lower) Die-Die Bandwidth: 100 to 200 GB/s vs 1,000 GB/s (10 to 5 times more) 2. R&D: Zen 2 was mostly engineered with minimal R&D due to AMD's being nearly bankrupt prior to Zen 2's launch. Compared to Arrow Lake's massive R&D budget Back to my original statement on how it is impressive with what Intel can do with chiplets. It is impressive with how many advantages Intel has with Arrow Lake's packaging, just how much worse it performs than Zen 2. Zen 2 brought a fairly good IPC jump, massive multi core improvement, actually better power efficiency, and higher frequencies. Arrow Lake brought none of these, the power efficiency is simply due from lowering the out of the box power consumption.

[@betag24cn]

intel did nothing, tsmc did, and they did it wrong, that is why they had to admit they lost, but lied about for how much they have go away with any bs praise of intel chiplets, intel already said that those were bad, just shut up.

[@benc3825]

@@betag24cn Clearly you didn't learn to read. Why don't you actually read the comment, in fact, you only have to read the last 2 paragraphs. Also, TSMC fabs the chips, Intel is the one who designed and packaged them. If Intel gave them a poor design, TSMC still fabs them as they are contracted. Given only Intel has had issues with their products using TSMC, and the fact that even their server CPUs which don't use TSMC has issues, it is going to be INTEL'S issue.

[@benc3825]

​@@betag24cnNot replying is when proven wrong is the cowards way out. XD

[@zdspider6778]

1:52 "PAR" for parody.

[@Decki777]

I think someone should make dedicated gaming CPUs . Intel and AMD are making general purpose CPUs. ARM architecture is good at doing one thing so a dedicated gaming CPU based arm will be good.

[@adi6293]

😂😂 And what is 5800X3D or 7800X3D if not a gaming chip?

[@Decki777]

@@adi6293 they just have added cache that's all they are still a general purpose CPUs. That to do everything. 3d cache CPUs still have limitations like die space for cache they can't magically use 2gb of cache.

[@zdspider6778]

Nobody wants that. Not even the CPUs in consoles are "gaming-only", they still need to run an OS. And games, at the end of the day, are just number crunchers, just like any other app. It would be just marketing. Like how "gaming" keyboards are (the OS doesn't care, a key press is a key press). What "distinguishing feature" do you imagine for something like that? More cache? More cores? Many other apps would benefit from more cache but not necessarily from more cores. Even lots of games don't benefit from more cores. I don't think I want another line of CPUs that are specifically marketed towards "gaming". They'll just add "Gaming" and "Gaming X" to all their names. Because "X" is "cool". No, thank you. But I'm sure some manager exec somewhere is drooling at the thought, rubbing their greedly little hands together as they read this.

[@Decki777]

@@zdspider6778 You didn't understand what I meant. Dedicated gaming CPUs means they must do all things for gaming like consoles do. PC still has a huge limitation like shader compilation stutter every single game has shader compilation stutter It doesn't 7800x3d Rtx 4090 PC or any PC consoles doesn't have shader compilation stutter they run games smooth even with their weak hardware.

[@Riyozsu]

​@@Decki777I think you misspelt GPU in 'gaming CPU'. Gaming performance is affected by the GPU.

[@davidl6354]

Amd survived bulldozer it would be sad if intel doesn’t survive ryzen

[@noticing33]

Do not trust corps in their benchmark results.

[@betag24cn]

what went wrong? everything

[@thesidneychan]

From TERAFLOPs to terrible FLOP.

[@delicious_seabass]

What the reviewers fail to see or understand is that gaming isn't everything when it comes to PCs. The Core Ultra 9's are already sold out in Japan and US.

[@TV-xv1le]

Paper launch

[@CyberneticArgumentCreator]

@@TV-xv1le Based on what?

[@thetechrealist]

Intel probably expected lower sales numbers so obviously they manufactured less CPUs & blokes like you think they sold out because they sold millions of

[@betag24cn]

sold out because there were very fee units, some markets do not hace cpus available yet once people hears how bad this performs and ser the price, the intel fanboys will be the ones making the sold put situation happen and even them wioo wonder what happenex keep in mind that if a cpu loses in a competition, it will not sell people do not buy cpus for productivity in large quatities at launch, for games, sure what you dont get is if you win on sunday, you sell on monday, intel has not won since like 2022

[@jbountalas]

I don't think it's a technical flop. The flop was Intel's management of the public's expectations. The upgrade isn't compelling for me, I have a 13900F (I don't care about overclocking) and for the difference in performance (not efficiency) versus the cost of the hardware upgrade, for me it's a "I'm going to sit this one out" situation. Gamer's anticipated a noticeable uplift, and that wasn't Intel's primary goal, from what I can see. So, new Intel chips, nothing to see here, move on.

[@joeykeilholz925]

19:21 Nope. Intel can't make a good cpu. End of story

[@Angel7black]

Arrow lake might be the worst CPU launch in a LONG long time but i feel like there’s seriously something wrong and these CPUs are literally underperforming more than they should. They go even with Alder Lake while being WAYYYYYY more expensive. I feel like these are eventually gonna get fixed to be as fast or close to Raptor Lake and Zen 4 X3D, maybe slightly slower but no. Nobody should buy these. These chips are fundamentally flawed and feel like a weird gross expensive beta test for future tech from Intel. Raptor Lake would even be a better by than this now that they have been fixed. They arent even that much more power efficient, and the p cores have zero hyper threading. This gen is nothing but disappointment. Zen 5 is still garbage, but this is flamming garbage. Some how the new gen CPU market is worse than the GPU one. And thats saying something

[@jessejohn7406]

*this video made Userbenchmark very upset*

[@DarkSoul45456]

i still think DDR4 Ram 4000 mhz performs better as DDR 4 Ram

[@johndough4871]

Well, if Moore's law aint dead..

[@jjlw2378]

I was 100% on board with buying an Apex, OCF, or Unify-X this generation and slapping a new 285k onto it even though I already have a 13900k and 7800x3d. However, after reviews came out and I saw some early OCN results, I decided I'll just keep my money and buy 9800x3d instead. I love my Intel CPUs, but this gen is a skip for me. I look forward to your results!

[@CyberneticArgumentCreator]

So for you it is worth it to spend $500 to gain 3-4% performance every year? You don't sound like a very savvy consumer.

[@jjlw2378]

@CyberneticArgumentCreator It's my hobby. I enjoy it. It's a relatively cheap hobby in the grand scheme of things.

[@johndough4871]

I have been saying my 14600K is a great CPU.

[@jcddcjjcdnz]

You are basically reshowing the work of others which we have already seen.

[@ashamahee]

although its underwhelming there are a few points to take into consideration. The benchmarks show really good results in many cases however gaming performance is all over the place, something that could be due to software issues or hardware, time will tell. AMD received a major performance uplift from Windows updates lately and if you subtract those then they are relatively close to each other leading to the question whether or not similar performance increases can be seen for the Ultra series as well. However if it is software/driver issues then who knows how long it takes to fix and who wants to wait or even take a chance on that given the prices of both motherboards and cpus? Before anyone calls me shill or coping, I am not, the results are just too much all over the place for this to make sense.

[@allxtend4005]

or you can just buy a ryzen 7800x3d and have way less power consume and more performances ... we all know that benchmarks nowdays are garbage and test the product int it's best light because most people are sponsored by the products they Review or get punished when they review it bad, this is why hardware unboxed diserve a good rating because he tested the real scenario and not just a benchmark, 89 fps against 116 on 285k vs 14900k ? what the hell are we talking about then you say people to buy used 13/14th gen cpu's this CPU's have a High Failure Rate what are you telling the poeple here to do is to risk to get scamed or to buy a very bad product meanwhile there is a Better and cheaper solution and it is called AMD Ryzen 7 7800x3d where it deliver more performance, the chip / board / ram itself cost less / it use way less power, what points you have for intel ? None.

[@uchihasilver8362]

The performance isnt a massive issue for me its the price . . . Im sorry but you cant make a worse CPU and demand more money then previous gen 🤣

[@NBWDOUGHBOY]

Seems to me this is Intel Resetting their whole CPU division. It's obvious they wanted to get the power draw down from the Raptor Lake CPUs. Kinda reminds me of Zen 1. Not the best, Has some issues but Hopefully they can expound upon this and improve the overall performance in the future.

[@AbbasDalal1000]

Remember zen 1 was waay better than piledriver

[@NBWDOUGHBOY]

@@AbbasDalal1000 True but it was Shlt in comparison to Intel at the time with a lot of Bugs and issues. Hence My Comparison. Its like a Total 180 now where Intel is in the AMD position way back then lets see if they can build it the same way AMD Did.

[@Knirin]

@@NBWDOUGHBOY Backing up further into Intel’s own history the Netburst based Pentium 4 family was beaten by AMD’s Athlon 64 chips and the previous Pentium 3s despite a 30% clock speed advantage.

[@Airborntx]

7:17 you said its wrong to think the exxperience is thrash and unplayable, actually that is what we saw on the reviews, the platform is very unstable , everyone stated that blue screens and crashes were everywhere .... so is based on a lie your argument,.

[@blueeyednick]

i don't know if im the only one noticing but every product that's came out this year is total garbage

[@boltez6507]

Yet it sold out.