Intermittent Low Power/Lean Conditions [2006 Ford F150 Electronic Returnless Fuel System]

Some key tests shown in this video:
1. The O2 WOT Test (both good and bad)
2. MAP sensor quick tests
3. Fuel Trim Analysis
4. Fuel Pump Current Waveforms on a PWM Pump
5. Fuel Pump Control Module Tests
6. Billing for Diagnostic Time on Intermittent Problems
00:20 - customer complaint and symptoms
01:04 - trouble code list (P0109, P0190, P0191, P2195, P2198)
02:12 - MAP sensor test
02:40 - Fuel Rail Pressure and Fuel Trim data
06:00 - wide open throttle Oxygen Sensor/Fuel Rail Pressure test (are we starving for fuel?)
10:37 - "New Fuel Pump - Still No Fuel Pressure - Now What? [2012 Ford E350]" • New Fuel Pump - Still ...
12:00 - MAP sensor codes can be false!
13:32 - what fuel starvation looks like at WOT
"Troubleshooting P0171, P0174 trouble codes (how to read and interpret fuel trim data)"
• Troubleshooting P0171,...
15:38 - history of repairs
17:00 - wiring inspection of the fuel pump control module
22:00 - Fuel Pump current waveform/Fuel Pump Control Module tests
32:49 - Ford Electronic Returnless Fuel System Diagnosis (Part 1) - Ford
• Ford Electronic Return...
Ford Electronic Returnless Fuel System Diagnosis (Part 2)
• Ford Electronic Return...
34:27 - rant on billing for "diagnostic time"
37:35 - analyzing Freeze Frame data for the rich code
41:10 - You can't change parts based on a code!
ScannerDanner Tools:
www.scannerdanner.com/tools.html
www.amazon.com/shop/scannerda...
For more information on this topic, I have written a “field manual” called Engine Performance Diagnostics which is available at www.scannerdanner.com as an eBook or paper book.
Want even more diagnostic training? Whether you are a DIY trying to fix your own car, someone looking to become an auto technician, or a current auto technician that wants to get more into diagnostics, subscribe to ScannerDanner Premium www.scannerdanner.com/join-sc... There is a 14 day free trial.
On ScannerDanner Premium I will bring you right into my classroom at Rosedale Technical College. You will find page for page lectures taken right from my book as well as exclusive classroom type case studies. What is so special about these classroom case studies? I pull live problem vehicles directly into my classroom and we troubleshoot them in real time, using and applying the theory and testing procedures we learn during the classroom lectures. There is no better on-line training of how to troubleshoot automotive electrical and electronics systems anywhere!
Disclaimer:
Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, it cannot guarantee against unauthorized modifications of this information, or improper use of this information. ScannerDanner LLC assumes no liability for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. ScannerDanner LLC recommends safe practices when working with power tools, automotive lifts, lifting tools, jack stands, electrical equipment, blunt instruments, chemicals, lubricants, or any other tools or equipment seen or implied in this video. Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, no information contained in this video shall create any express or implied warranty or guarantee of any particular result. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user and not ScannerDanner LLC.

[@ryan.mullen]

Paul you are a gift to the automotive repair industry. Some day when I own a shop it will be a requirement that every tech that works for me watches every video on your premium site. It literally took me from being a lube tech to being the best diagnostic tech at my work in 6 months. I work with guys that have been doing this 30 years that don’t know a fraction of the stuff I have learned from you in the last year.

[@ScannerDanner]

Oh man, that is so awesome and humbling to hear. I look forward to that day Ryan! (When you own your own shop) and all of your techs are learning from me, and we get your name listed on my Shop Directory! It is a gift to hear this type of feedback. Thank you so much!

[@gnomiefirst9201]

Old dogs can learn new tricks but oftentimes they just lose the spark.

[@richard1835]

Paul is one of the best Automotive Diagnostic Technicians out here. Thank you Paul for another great Automotive troubleshooting video.

[@ScannerDanner]

Thank you my friend

[@markhollins2190]

@richard1835 I'm one of the best Automotive Technicians out here also Man it's a bunch of us...

[@jharrison6557]

@@markhollins2190 🤣🤣🤣

[@markhollins2190]

@@jharrison6557 😂😆😆😂😂

[@meekstrova203]

I watched Paul since 2018, now I'm making living out of it, you are a God's sender.. Stay blessed man❤

[@ScannerDanner]

That's awesome! Thank you

[@billrimmer5596]

Double Dang!! Is this a new vid? Back at Pete’s, a SnapOn scanner, using an amp clamp and the scope. Paul at his best, ranting the way we love it. Caleb editing and adding the past cases. Cardboard?? Scanner Danner is back!!! Yaaaah!!!

[@calholli]

On your talk about charging.. I say: You MUST charge them even if you don't find something.. The fix for that is to set those expectations up front. Really question them on how often it's acting up and if it only did it once--- then just cut them off right there and tell them to keep driving it until it gets worse. That's my only fix for intermittent issues--- you just have to turn them away until they are a persistent issue... OR you make sure that the customer knows that you may not find anything because it's not happening very often... Many customers will agree to that up front and tell you to look anyway; then when it comes time to bill-- they won't get any unwanted surprises.. You set that expectation and tried to turn them away first...... This is exactly what I do to my woman, my mother and my sister.. :) ... I don't charge them to work on it anyway.. but I still set that expectation and turn them away often.. Just keep driving it-- I'll fix it when it's actually broken. And typically-- the thing will finally break and then it's a quick easy fix and I never had to chase my tail on a rare intermittent fault. so again: TLDR Try to turn them away if their intermittent issue isn't happening often.. Then if they insist on you looking anyway; just let them know that it still costs, even if you can't find anything, because you can't recreate the fault. This way they know exactly what the agreement is. That is the answer for this situation

[@ScannerDanner]

We will do the same! Good words, thank you!

[@BehindTheCounter_TFSO]

This scenario highlights a common issue in our industry. Customers often end up with hefty repair bills if mechanics only address the trouble code without thoroughly diagnosing the issue. Imagine how frustrating it would be for the customer to pay a significant amount, only to realize shortly afterward that the problem persists. Additionally, the unnecessary replacement of parts results in wastage as those perfectly good parts are discarded, contributing to landfill buildup.

[@DDescalchuk57]

Well good parts aren’t discarded. Techs don’t throw away parts that they replaced via parts cannon. You can’t clear the code and give it to the customer after replacing the part… it needs to have run a few trips or even a drive cycle and the code needs to clear itself. Clearing a code and returning vehicle to a customer without running a drive cycle is ridiculous. The customer ends up taking the vehicle after a repair drives it to their lake house and the check engine light comes back on . If the part you used is from Napa even if it’s a good diagnosis that parts gunna fail. Electrical components must come from the dealer . A shop that uses a Napa part that’s electrical is only taking your money. In my opinion… the suppliers that sell electrical related components to Napa don’t pay nearly a 1/10 of the money for R&D . Electrical 100% has to be replaced with OEM

[@arthurfricchione8119]

Thanks for sharing Paul and Caleb. Nice overview on how everything is tied together 👍

[@TOdoubledizzle24]

I love your way of looking at engines!! I think people don't mind paying for diagnostics from guys like you that actually do them.

[@ScannerDanner]

Thank you!

[@2.3fox]

I'm glad you put this video, I just need a scanner to find my ford 2.3 speed density low power intermittent issues! Thank you Dan for this channel.

[@suryaprihadi2258]

I love the lens choosen by Caleb, so awesome the depth of field where u seat driving vs left side window road view background❤.

[@ScannerDanner]

Just shared this with him. Thank you for noticing the work he does for me. Made me proud.

[@billsullivan8812]

great as always Paul. Thanks for what you do.

[@Flyingspann3r]

Another nice video, thanks for taking the time to share the info. On a side note completely off base Paul, it is nice to see the countryside you have where you live when on your road tests. Ivan @ PHAD has nice scenery too.

[@ScannerDanner]

Where Ivan lives is amazingly beautiful. My younger brother went to Penn State and we use to be up there all the time! It is about 3 hours away from me to the east and is up in the Appalachian mountains.

[@alexisjohnson9608]

Scannerdanner another excellent informative video I was checking out one from 8 years ago you were diagnosing lean codes play Chevy Suburban that helps me with my Chevy Tahoe you're a wizard man and a genuinely fantastic dude keep sharing the knowledge and happy Easter to you and the family brother

[@tracydiller9378]

Great video Paul as always and at Pete's shop can't get any better than that. God Bless.

[@FuManchu5ltr]

Your rants are the best rants. All valid. I’d imagine Caleb’s rants about your rants are the gold though.

[@ScannerDanner]

❤️😂

[@calebldanner]

I read this comment to my wife, she said she disagrees 😂

[@ScannerDanner]

​@@calebldannerso my rants are better thank yours then? 😂

[@calebldanner]

@@ScannerDanner I don't think she likes either of us ranting 😂

[@williamcantrell]

I really like the format of this video. Inserting the older clip for reference and wiring diagram pop outs are outstanding. Nice job Caleb! You’re ok too Paul. Lol

[@ScannerDanner]

Glad you liked it! Caleb does an excellent job and I'm glad you noticed!

[@AKChryslertech]

Thank you Paul for the video! Even though you didn't get the result you were looking for, it's OK because it was still a great refresher for returnless fuel systems. Hey I had an interesting one today to share with you. I have a customer with a 2010 chevy tahoe police that was stuck lean and running poorly on bank 2 after it was put in the ditch. Ended up finding the wiring to the pre-cat o2 but it happened in such a way that it also fried the sensor as well. I came to find out the two damaged wires were for the 12 volt ignition and the other was the signal return to the pcm. Pretty fun one for me as I usually don't see many o2 sensor failures. I just got a call back from the customer a few minutes ago saying the truck is running better than it ever has since he has owned it so that was pretty cool.

[@KStewart-th4sk]

The thing i really love about this Channel is that you take the time to reply to so many comments. There also seems to be many knowledgeable people in the comment section, who can be very helpful as well. My only complaint is with KZbin. I had left a comment late last night and wondered if Paul had replied. At first i thought it had disappeared but found it way down in the comments and sure enough Paul had left a reply. Is that something on my end i don't have set up properly on YT that comments are all jumbled up with some comments that are relatively new appearing amongst comments that are days old? If anyone has an answer, it seems that i will have to go looking for this comment.

[@ScannerDanner]

So there are a few things you can do on your end. One would be to make sure your settings are set for push notifications (I think it's called that), where you will get an email when someone comments back to you. The second would be within the YT app itself. Or on a browser on a PC it's the same, you will see the comments have two options to sort them. One says Top comments and the other says Newest. Select newest and then you can scroll down and find your own comment easier. The top comment thing is a YT thing and it's all based on their algorithms. How many likes your comment got will move it toward the top and also if you have a channel of your own with many followers, that bumps you up too. There is nothing us creators can do to change this. Thanks!

[@KStewart-th4sk]

@@ScannerDanner Thanks a lot, Paul. Unfortunately, I never seem to get many upvotes to any comment i make on any Channel. LOL At least the best guy on YT replies. How you find the time but i am positive the rest of your faithful followers appreciate it as much as i do.

[@nancylewis7142]

Thank you for this video, all this information, and your time!

[@Alex-tc2vp]

I drive a 04 Mustang and I’m getting a fuel rail pressure sensor p0193 high circuit code that seems to be intermittent, so yet another video of yours that’s helping me pin point some things on my live data👍🏻

[@ScannerDanner]

Usually a circuit high code is the result of an open, either in the signal or ground wire or the sensor itself

[@annacersongor8553]

From Algeria, I am one of your greatest fans. It has been a while sir, good to see you.

[@calholli]

I did fix my 2010 Dodge Nitro that you helped me on... about the "APP2" data dropping out periodically.. and the limp mode issue.... I installed that new water pump and it has never had an issue since. Ivan at pine hollow.. and Eric O at south main auto both told me the same thing you did... that APP2 data drops out because it's a type of diagnostic test that the ECM sends out every second or so.......... Pretty weird: Because I talked to 2 different guys who rebuild ECM's for a living-- You just mail it in to them: and they didn't even know this, about APP2 dropout. They told me that it was unfixable and that I would have to just buy a new ECM. :) .. That shows how cutting edge youtuber diag's knowledge is.. and how reliable you guys are. bravo ... Saved me from buying a $600 ECM

[@ScannerDanner]

That's pretty awesome right there! Thanks for sharing! Ivan and Eric are both super smart techs

[@davidturner4639]

Your rant is spot on not just for the automotive industry. The printing and graphics industry fails in similar ways. A shop (more likely the sales rep) will not want to charge a customer to fix there poorly created files even though the most experienced person spends hours of time using very expensive software and workstation to correct the errors. Shop management doesn't like to make waves and make a customer made with additional charges. This is false logic on their part as they may have very well losing money on the whole job. Many a business has gone bankrupt with plenty of customers.

[@TheBry_Guy]

Love these vids. Paul, Ivan, Eric O, and Wes. been watching you all for years. And about diagnostic time, YES.. I would love to have a skilled diagnostician in my area. Unfortunately my cars have no issues to diagnose yet. It's both a blessing and a curse! Until something cool breaks, I guess I'll stick to brake services and Lube/Oil/Filters on my own cars.

[@Bseries_Vans]

These are my 4 go to guys too lol

[@CPUTests]

Your rant makes perfect sense. Sometimes the ittermitent nature of the problem makes you burn time just hoping for the synthom to reveal itself. And the only way to solve the problem is when the problem manifests itself. Until then you are just burning time that should and must be payed because is the only way to reach for the solution and final repair, so those hours just driving and also the fuel spent must be provided by the client. The client chose a complex vehicle with complex systems that may fail so it is up to the client to spend to correct the problem or live with it. Best regards. Love your job.

[@ScannerDanner]

Agree 100%, thank you for this comment. I just wish others would understand. From garage owners, to the techs, to the customers. All three have their own unique problems and variables they bring into this equation

[@SELKCOMM]

Fantastic!! Sometimes it just ain’t easy

[@ritchieschofield1185]

Another great video. Thank you!

[@tylerwilliams3868]

love the videos i always learn something even being a tech for 12yrs+

[@ScannerDanner]

Thank you!

[@godofthunder6613]

So glad you finally changed your mind about charging for diagnostic time

[@ScannerDanner]

Changed my mind? I've been preaching this since I started a channel in 2011

[@godofthunder6613]

@@ScannerDanner I was referring to your old videos where you were saying that you can't bill the customer for the time you put into a vehicle diagnostic that took way longer than expected because you would make up for it in the future because now you know the problem if you ever see it again on another vehicle. I quit a job I was working shortly after a came across your KZbin channel because the "master tech" would always shotgun every car and would be praised by all of upper management for making the shop so much money but whenever the car came back they would pawn it of to me because the "master tech" was busy diagnosing all of the other vehicles. I actually took my time to properly diagnose the vehicle and rarely had any comebacks, of course management was obligated to tell me that my productivity was too low while never complaining to the "master tech" about every other car he touched having a comeback. I decided to finally get my L1 after binging you premium channel content for a week over a decade ago.

[@ScannerDanner]

​@godofthunder6613 there was context with that story I'm sure. As in I was a rookie and I was making mistakes. A customer shouldn't be paying for that.

[@andrew7202]

Love danner love your videos I find so many ways to long a problem and learn a lot or just keep info fresh in my mind. Love knowing all this info transfer over in any mechanical industry. marine mechanic and business owner any new guy wanting to get into the industry or ask me questions about stuff I tell them to watch you and pay for premium. Your knowledge and insight on the diagnostic side of things is worth its weight in gold to a tech who wants to be good and get better

[@ScannerDanner]

Thank you so much Andrew!

[@andrew7202]

@@ScannerDanner nah thank you man, you make tech better and actually wanna make this industry better. Which I’m all about, so thank you for sharing that knowledge and experience to us younger guys and guys who wanna be the best at their craft

[@danman9017]

i have seen on E450 this problem 2008 a couple time corosion of fuse contact giving low voltage fuse box in hood.thanks great video

[@danman9017]

sometime banging fuse box can duplicate the problem ,just put a voltmeter on the inertie switch and monitor the voltage will bagging

[@Pablo_Automotive]

Thanks Paul

[@ScannerDanner]

Thanks Pablo!

[@Pablo_Automotive]

@@ScannerDanner Your welcome =)

[@happygarage6310]

I've worked at those shops who "can't charge for diag time". When I overheard the shop owner andmanager training the new SA say " sometimes what you charge and the hours don't match, always pay the tech" it was like music to my ears.

[@SmittySmithsonite]

Excellent as always, buddy! You too, Caleb!😎 Listening to your “rant” (as you called it) at the end, it IS stuff like this that led me to quit the industry. Wasn’t the only reason, but a big part of the reason. I always hated being on long test drives exactly like you were doing. I felt like I was wasting time that could be better used actually accomplishing something, even though I’m trying to get to the cause of the problem… It just didn’t feel like I was accomplishing anything. The other half of it is the infuriating engineering that we have to deal with when trying to remove a bad parts. Take my 2007 Silverado 1500 (GMT 900) for example - it took me 2 WEEKS to remove and reinstall a transmission because I was fighting this engineering. Plastic clips that don’t remove intuitively for the grille, metal clips I had to fudge with to remove the transmission lines, electrical connectors that are infuriating …& every every single one is different, all different length studs on the exhaust manifold coupled with the catalytic converters being right up against them so you can’t use a deep socket… Then you find they are torqued to 4,000,000 ft/lbs. & strip a nut completely round, a bellhousing bolt at the 12 o’clock position that you can only reach from the tail end of the transfer case with a 4 foot extension… also where you can only use a 3/8” drive socket, which breaks at the torque required to move said bolt … and on and on and on. Every vehicle was like this, and it just burned me right out. I couldn’t charge enough money to make it worth my sanity. Anyway, that’s my rant for the day!😂 Glad to see you guys still at it! 🙌 May God continue to bless you and the rest of your family.

[@ScannerDanner]

Man, I could feel your pain in that description, I really could. Thanks for the comment and for watching!

[@SmittySmithsonite]

@@ScannerDanner Thanks for your contributions to the automotive world, as always, brother!

[@skydragon1966]

AMEN!!!!! You are right about diagnostic time, People would rather go to the parts store and let them scan the car and take their best guess,,, Gotta educate the customer and shop owners.

[@orlanmedina3693]

Waiting for part 2 teacher!

[@2.3fox]

Me too, currently trying to figure this driveability issues I have if I give the car some gas, never acted up with an acceleration issue

[@weshawkins7165]

Good to see ya again and good to see this video, these intermittent problems are real world issues. I love these types of videos with these types of issues from you. Love your rant also, it’s right on. 52 years a tech I have to agree with you about that module and the state of parts these days. Five months is enough time for a new part to fail and a bad pump still being bad most likely wouldn’t have lasted five months without problems. On another note how’s you foot doing, an Achilles’ tendon wasn’t it?

[@ScannerDanner]

Thank you my friend. It was a ACL (knee surgery). I'm getting stronger ever day! 4 more months before I can skate again

[@weshawkins7165]

@@ScannerDanner Glad it’s getting better. I’ve never played ice hockey but did play a little roller hockey twenty plus years ago. At 68 I’m a little too old now to be chasing pucks into the boards. Still working on cars though.

[@ScannerDanner]

​@@weshawkins7165 bet you miss it though right? It was a roller hockey game too that I tore my ACL. I bet it would have been fine on the ice as the skate would have slid more

[@weshawkins7165]

@@ScannerDanner I miss being younger and being able to do those things, the hockey was a blast. I could probably still skate but the recovery takes a lot longer now.

[@isalmankhan1]

AWESOME THANKS FOR SHARING SD🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 Totally agree with every word you said about charging for diagnostic time 💯%👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻 Special Thanks to cameraman Caleb👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻 Plz do some videos @ James Danner's shop it been a while since we saw him😍😍😍 Stay Blessed Danner Family🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

[@jackmeholf5901]

Love your videos i have learned so much from you I appreciate the amazing content.Just curious why don’t you drop it into a lower gear to do WOT testing? this allows you to do WOT Tests for longer while reducing your speed.

[@ScannerDanner]

I only need the first gear pull as I have scan tools that allow me to pause and review data

[@amarabdelli487]

Thanks for sharing

[@ysitrim88]

Great video my friend!

[@geoepi321975]

I like your low power videos...

[@richard1835]

Thank you

[@aarongallagher8898]

After watching your videos, and other studies I tried to diagnose fishbite misfire on 2002 lesabre I looked at vacuum leak ,secondary ignition (lean waveform), fuel pump waveform and other things. Turns out the fuel pump was consuming 2.5 less amps. (Using amp probe). New pump =secondary waveform looked right.

[@dresdensvo]

Most excellent title .

[@ScannerDanner]

Thank you (in the thumbnail right?) I have @supermariodiagnostics to thank for that

[@ShotandBotched]

I ran into an intermittent FRP sensor issue similar to this one in the past. IIRC the sensor shares the signal return wire with several other sensors, including the power steering pressure switch. The wires on that switch were exposed and touching each other due to chronic oil leaks and was screwing with the FRP voltage.

[@user-tx7tw9yc6m]

I missed your videos 😊

[@nalinperera5754]

Nice to see such like these diagnostics. Can you tell me which diagnostic tool you’re using?

[@ScannerDanner]

Snap-On Verus Edge I think on this one

[@jharrison6557]

Hey SD, fuel pump driver module duty cycle signals are as follows: 20%=the FPDM us receiving an invalid duty cycle from the PCM 40%= the FPDM is receiving an invalid event notification signal from the RCM 60%= functioning normally 80%= the FPDM is detecting a concern with the secondary circuits(feedback signals) Hope this helps

[@ScannerDanner]

That would be the feedback signals you are referring to.

[@georgesokolov4155]

Thank you for the new video. On the flip side, you have to use your brain every day with diagnostic, unlike changing brakes, where it is optional))))

[@mph5896]

If that were my personal truck, It would be getting a pump, driver module and relay. Last tow bill I had was $250. That pretty much covers parts cost for 1 tow.

[@ScannerDanner]

If it's a customers car and you do that, what happens when that doesn't fix it? As long as that conversation is had with the customer, then you're good. The problem us, a lot of shops out there would do all of that, but they'll sell the job as "this IS your problem". Then when it doesn't fix it, the customer is pissed!

[@mph5896]

@@ScannerDanner Unfortunately for the customer, it's an intermittent problem. The truck is not reliable as it is and cannot be trusted. It will have to be completely broken, or caught when its intermittently broken to be a 99% repair fix. For my personal truck, I am aware it will be a pretty good chance its fixed. That could be sold to a customer in a shop as well as the same.

[@bradnoyes7955]

17:00 There should be a spacer between the FPDM and the frame. The aluminum touching the steel caused the aluminum to corrode away, so the replacement FPDMs should have come with studs to space the module away from the frame.

[@jjsant3250]

I have a 2006 4.6 and learned some stuff from this on what is normal and what to look for. My module is on the outside of the back seat in the trunk.

[@global_Jesus]

Bro perfect time. I have wrx 2017 Sam issue But mine is direct Inject and turbo turbo

[@kdmq]

For all we know, your FRP could be going well above 75 psi when you are commanding the fuel pump duty cycle to 40% and above. Look at the FRP voltage when it hits 75 psi, it's at 5 volts, meaning the sensor is capped out.

[@carloserazo1286]

Thanks!

[@ScannerDanner]

Thank you! That wasn't necessary but I appreciate it

[@r.weaver3769]

That is exactly right, I only wanted to do brakes and suspensions because my shop says "I can't charge my customer because you don't know what's wrong with it" This is before ever looking at a car. So screw it, take it somewhere else, no so-n-so, "parts cannon specialist", will fix it, and thousands dollars and days later and it's still broke...I don't miss it at all.

[@ScannerDanner]

100% accurate description of what this field is full. Unfortunately

[@Blessed_2_Be_Born_In_America]

Relative fuel pressure is fuel pressure in relation to MAP pressure. So basically, it is the same as fuel pressure, especially at WOT.

[@stormyyoung6344]

I'm still here just soaking up your knowledge

[@ScannerDanner]

Thank you!

[@OtisPlunk]

I fell asleep listening to the video and I woke up because I thought someone was tapping on my window to wake me up when I heard the tapping on the FICM. I worked hard, ate dinner and then out like a light. Not the video, I.e. It’s me, not you. :-)

[@ScannerDanner]

😂😂 that's funny

[@brendonwilson4838]

I had an 06 f-150 that would have an extended crank when it was hot and eventually stopped starting at all when it was hot. Finally it Stalled out and came to me. Cold starts were never an issue, but when it was hot the fuel pump would not turn on. Checked the FPCM and had good outputs and power and ground at the pump was good, but found corrosion in the power wire about the same spot you had it. Replaced pump and module (customer said he knew they were a known problem and wanted it changed.) Upon further inspection of the pump connector, the power wire pin of the fuel pump actually had melted plastic all over the bottom of it. I was wondering if that melted plastic was a symptom of the corroded wire causing it to get hot as I’ve always been told a motor will pull pull amperage until the fuse blows or a wire burns up.

[@ScannerDanner]

Yes sir, the melted plastic was from a poor connection. Resistance = heat!!

[@CampingNstuff]

When you key it on the pump runs at 100% for 2sec for the prime . I use to drive it for about 15 minutes to get the pump hot then scope to the prime and you could see the bad comm segments .

[@traciwinter8259]

I like the way you edited in senes from the other video

[@ScannerDanner]

Thank you!

[@LOLpsyentist]

Perhaps the closed loop fault fuel system status on the freeze frame would offer a hint. Perhaps a blip where substituted values came into play and both banks suddenly wanted the exact same STFT in the absence of some other input data due to the fault. Some transition from closed to open loop perhaps where the O2 sensor data no longer applies and the PCM looked at TPS or something..

[@ScannerDanner]

OBD2 data is not allowed to show substituted values, but I like the idea!

[@redrustyhill2]

At work we had a tractor with intermittent shutting off and not wanting to start. Took it to the "pros". The shop charged us $3,500 for diagnostic and research, gave it back without fixing anything. Owner just shrugged and gave me some ideas to check when the tractor died, and i told them it had same issue still.

[@ScannerDanner]

that is horrible and certainly not what we did here

[@redrustyhill2]

@@ScannerDanner no, i didn't mean to make it sound like thats you! In my experience though, this is common with many shops. Of 2 shops in my town, One shop doesn't even own a scanner to do simple calibrations and the other charged me insane amount to calibrate a brake light switch. Probably didn't take them 20 minutes total but i got charged almost $300 just because they hooked their scantool up.

[@Santiago_Ordonez_]

Nice.👌

[@bigscout1584]

I have an 06 w/4.2 and mine was/is the same. I replaced the FPM and a week later same thing also I saw that the 'fix' according to Ford is a stand off on the FPM is recommended. I then replaced the fuel filter same thing a week later. 😢

[@buckaroo1278]

Had a ford that corroded the case on the fuel pump driver , bolted to the axle an the aluminum on steel reacted . New driver comes with a rubber standoff feet.

[@paulgilliland2992]

Cool beans I was wondering why it took you to lay in the dirt poking at that module if you were going to call it.

[@brandongarnold]

Don’t know if it’s been said but the EGR System Module is what houses the MAP/Baro sensor and it shares the same reference voltage with the Fuel Rail Pressure sensor as well as the power steering pressure sensor. Possibly an issue with that reference?

[@ScannerDanner]

Exactly why we don't throw parts at the problem! Thanks

[@donlightbody8270]

That "fuel rail pressure relative " you were discussing at the end is relative to manifold vacuum. I'm not sure how helpful that is to us, lol, i just want to know the fuel pressure 🤣

[@ScannerDanner]

Lol that's funny

[@JohnDix-xz4tt]

Noticed that the freeze frame data showed at 144 degrees on the coolant sensor. Maybe the problem will show up on a cold drive away load during warm up driving.

[@billsullivan8812]

@ScannerDanner - Paul, have you ever seen a vehicle stay in closed loop at wide open throttle? Thanks.

[@ScannerDanner]

I think for momentary periods, yes, but I don't watch loop status, maybe, ever

[@billsullivan8812]

Thank You Paul.

[@jeffgoetz7919]

I noticed in the freeze frame data that the intake map (inHg) was 10 with the engine idling. Wouldn’t that be about half what it should be? Just curious as I’m trying to absorb all this stuff. I also understand that, at least on speed density, a reading like that would run the o2 rich and not lean like it is in the freeze frame. Thanks!

[@ScannerDanner]

So freezeframe data I find to be not very useful most of the time. It's just a single frame and things can be missed. In this case, the engine at 800 rpm suggest idle but combine the engine load and map (as you stated), someone's foot was on the gas pedal some and it wasn't running very well for sure, with a 53% positive trim on both banks. It was starving for fuel, for sure.

[@jeffgoetz7919]

@@ScannerDanner makes sense! Thank you Paul!

[@martyisabeliever]

Paul "The Man" Danner🤜⚡️🤛

[@canadatransistor]

I was thinking perhaps fuel quality or contamination. Here in Canada, we transition from winter to summer blend typically around april 1. I've seen my car fuel volatility behave weird around this time of the year and mess with evap properties (2015 chevy cruze for perspective). Anyways, I also watched a "watch JR go" video where a newish gm suv where the car would not start and a total fuel screw up happened and the engine would not start. The owner put a full tank of premium when it was really near zero fuel level. They substituted fuel with carb clearer and the engine was engaging.

[@ScannerDanner]

100% I've seen winter/summer blend fuel issues cause all kinds of problems. In particular when we have very warm weather in March!

[@JohnDoan-iu7sm]

Lol I haven’t even watched the video yet I just think the title is awesome

[@ljchrzan]

I've been in that situation so many times. In the shop I do the hard stuff and the other techs flag more hours and end up being paid more with the gravy jobs.

[@vickenkaragozian2041]

Check fuel rail pressure sensor reference voltage while wiggling power steering pressure sensor underneath the vehicle by the power steering high pressure hose. This 5v reference shares with egr sensor & power steering pressure sensor. If the 5v drops then fuel rail pressure sensor signal will drop too and this will cause vehicle to run rich and possible the engine die. I've had this problem before. Hopefully this helps.

[@ScannerDanner]

In my experience, you'll have ref circuit trouble codes for what you're describing. Also I showed at the end, in the freeze frame data, that both banks were full lean (in spite of the one bank rich code)

[@mph5896]

I was reading code criteria of P0190. States code sets when ref drops below a minimum threshold. As you stated, power steering pressure sensor shares some of the same wiring such as power and ground. But you "should" see a power steering pressure code if there was an issue with the power and ground to the sensors. Signal wire is independent on each sensor. I would still chase it with a wiggle test at the power steering pressure sensor like you mentioned.

[@vickenkaragozian2041]

@@ScannerDanner not necessary. You cannot always go by code. Just check it and you’ll see if it drops.

[@vickenkaragozian2041]

@@ScannerDanner you can monitor both the reference and signal wires at the fuel rail pressure sensor with a lab scope just in case if they drop. Usually the power steering pressure sensor wires are wet with oil from leaky power steering pressure hose and the wires are touching each other causing short the wires.

[@cgrs13]

Could you use the rear 02 data on a vehicle with a/f monitors to accomplish the same wot test for a fuel delivery issue?

[@ScannerDanner]

You can! You can also use the wideband upstream signal once you know how to interpret it (every car is different)

[@Blessed_2_Be_Born_In_America]

I have a 05 4.6L Mustang. The drop in fuel pressure down into the teens is completely normal for a Ford electronic return less system.

[@ScannerDanner]

Yes sir we determined that later in the video

[@careyautorepairs]

It's Paul Danner not Dan! ha ha. I made this mistake Paul when I first found your page.

[@ScannerDanner]

You and thousands of others 😂

[@abraman5]

could it be the Baro sensor reading incorrect? 26.8inHg seems a bit low, thats about 3k ft. altitude. When MAP sensor and BARO signals differ, P0109 is stored.

[@ScannerDanner]

It had a 156hz signal right? 160 is sea level. We're at a 1000ft, so a 157-158 is normal. I didn't bat an eye at that number. You can also have lower than normal baro readings when the engine is running poorly and you're at wide open throttle

[@HOTRODRICO]

so if it were your truck and you had the time and money to try switching parts to see if it behaved better with changing the module or pump which would you, or what would you do next ? thanks

[@ScannerDanner]

Since the module was the fix for 5 months, I'd be putting another module in it, especially because it's under warranty still

[@ekimbrough1413]

Paul! What about corroded wires? That's probably where your intermittents are at!

[@ScannerDanner]

100% a possibility

[@ScannerDanner]

However, the amperage measurements at the pump module tell us this isn't a corroded wire issue.

[@ekimbrough1413]

@@ScannerDanner Sorry Paul...the shadows in the vid on those two blower motor wires made them look damaged.

[@cgrstng]

That pump drive module should have pedestals to keep it up off the frame.

[@user-kk2bo4de8m]

What can we learn as technicians or learning technicians from Pauls video , its have a diagnostic process and stick to it and if you dont work for yourself make sure your employer is up to speed with this or you follow his or hers ,

[@rambleon2838]

I've just watched "The One Automotive Lab Scope Video You NEED to watch! (Mercedes Limp Mode) from Royalty Auto Service. The key takeaway was on how tight the voltage parameters especially on an APP sensor can be, and OEM data needed to fix the issue. My questions are the following: What I would like have seen in this case study is a visual inspection of the pins and connector at the recent replace FPM. Living in a dessert environment that rusty truck frame throws up all kind of alarm bells which may be not an issue to people who live in the rust belt. And the location of the module is not the most friendliest one for electronics. Was the swapped part an OEM or aftermarket? Maybe the other part was good and the problem is elsewhere. Could it be a software issue or a bad design? Can you always trust one scanner manufacturer for solving every problem? Has anybody checked for TSB's regarding the "fail often" FPM or these grouped codes? But the most important question for a DIY and a potential PISSED OFF customer in an absolute worse case scenario, what do to when in a couple days my smog test is due and I get the "CHECK ENGINE" light come back on while driving to the smog place? So far, I've paid for 2 diags and a parts replacement and won't pass smog? In order to keep the truck on the road, I would have to pay for a failed smog test to keep my registration current, get a 30day (depending on the state) extension to have the truck fixed at a "certified smog repair facility"($$$$) if I can't fix it myself. I sure like to find out what the fix was.

[@ScannerDanner]

I will NEVER unplug a connector and inspect terminals when I'm trying to duplicate a fault. You can fix pin fitment issues and or component pin issues (internal) by doing that and then ruin your chance of duplicating the fault

[@KStewart-th4sk]

@@ScannerDanner I would certainly agree with that while doing the diagnosis but when all else has failed it could be a last resort to just take a look and make sure. I never worked in the automotive field. I worked in the railroad industry (track maintenance equipment) repairing mostly Fairmont (Harsco) Tampers. BUT there were a lot of modules and ribbon cables involved, so sometimes you could run across something that had bent/damaged pins to the point you sometimes wondered "how did this ever work properly". Without someone understanding what the machine does (lifting and aligning track), you can't do a thorough test in a shop bay without putting the machine to work either.

[@TheFlyingMechanicDIY]

Freez frame showing 53% FT while at the same time showing 7.37g/s MAF at idle . I would expect around 5g/s for this engine , basically MAF is over-reading by around 50% .. common on Fords of this vintage and can be intermittent.. i would love to hear back from u man

[@ScannerDanner]

I dont trust freeze frame data fully to be honest. We do not know that this was idle. It also showed 50% load I think?

[@TheFlyingMechanicDIY]

Yaa around 20% , good point, there is a few confusing pids in the frame, like barometric pressure, which i believe should reset KOEOFF to what ever the MAP reading and u guys around sea level i believe it cannot go that low even on the worst days of the year. And other stuff

[@PremiumFuelOnly]

Heres how I would have diagnosed it. I would have cleared the codes and drove it again. That P0191 code is suspicious. I would check the wiring around the sensor and replace the pressure sensor since a range circuit code points to an electrical problem at the sensor.

[@ScannerDanner]

Range performance is almost never a circuit problem. I believe it was a range performance code.

[@jonathanhart54]

40:04 ya I’ve had very little luck getting any useful info from freeze frame data lol

[@ScannerDanner]

Same and I rarely use it. A recent example. I have a B2S2 O2 stuck rich code on my truck. Freeze frame data shows thr other 3 O2 sensors, just not the B2S2 😂 useless!

[@charlespaluha1247]

Just a question what do you charge to do this particular vehicle in this particular situation. What is the bill that you handed him

[@ScannerDanner]

I dont charge at all for the stuff I do these days. You guys pay my bills by watching and subscribing to my website. But the key with whatever it is you are charging is proper communication with the customer.

[@charlespaluha1247]

@@ScannerDanner how do I properly charge. I've started oscilloscoping and other things correctly and trying to diagnose correctly about 4 years ago. And I charge for what I do for my time. That's why I ask I just want to make sure I'm being reasonable. Thank you for responding sir

[@ScannerDanner]

​@charlespaluha1247 for this one, I would not have charged for more than the initial agreed upon price. You should have a flat fee you charge from a starting point when you do these. If I know it's going to be an intermittent problem, I may sell the customer an additional hour up front? Variables there for sure

[@charlespaluha1247]

@@ScannerDanner what is your initial flat rate charge

[@jheelpatel1502]

Hello i just wanted to know what would cause high fuel pressure in returnless fuel injection system?

[@ScannerDanner]

Electronic returnless with no fuel psi regulator and a PWM pump (like this one), or a mechanical returnless with the regulator in the tank?

[@donlightbody8270]

I have an 08 explorer 4.6 with p0171 & p0174. LTFT pretty much stays at +25 (usung blue driver.)I've changed everything 🙄. Even fuel pump control module. Fuel pressure stays pretty close to 40 psi.I just got a thinkdiag2 and it's showing me p1237ff. Every time i see someone with that code, it won't start. I drive this thing daily. Any idea ? maybe a ground short between module and pump?

[@ScannerDanner]

Check it for an intake manifold gasket leak. Possible MAF contamination issue etc

[@blake8297]

I had a fuel pump take over a year to finally die. It never shut off and would only not start on hot days if I shut the engine off for a short period of time. Like getting fuel or quickly running in the store but only during the summer. Did this an entire summer then didnt do it at all that winter. Finally died that next summer. I always seem to only have horrible intermittent issues.

[@ScannerDanner]

I bet it was a Ford? I've seen that issue before!

[@redrustyhill2]

This is happening to my subaru. It doesn't like to start if i shut it off and try restarting right away

[@kashifsharif4883]

I have an Audi 2018 Q3. I went to Audi to get the oil changed. They are unable to open the hood. They have tried everything they think they know and suggest breaking the hood to open it. It does not make sense to me. The repairs will cost 1000's$$. What Tips can you offer? Or can you please make a video about it?

[@single_cam9199]

My 5.4 285,000 miles still runs like a top no issues what so ever. but the dam frame tapped out. I can double fist the frame on both sides just past the front leaf perch

[@HenryMoore-pe9xt]

Hello danner I have a problem with my 2010 Chevy cobalt with no crank no start and no communication with ecm can u please help me with this situation I watch your videos all the time about no crank no start

[@jonathanhart54]

I didn’t know they had duty cycled controlled pumps in 06, I didn’t think those came in until early 2010s lol

[@ScannerDanner]

They had them even earlier than that!

[@careyautorepairs]

Well Paul, you need to change the aerial by the looks of it brother. Ha ha! Inside jokes from the UK. Disclaimer! For people that don't know about cars, when I find the problem, I like to say that you need to change the aerial or door handle to another fitter as a joke. You DO NOT change them.