Internal Kung Fu Power - REAL or FAKE? - Part 1

** IMPORTANT NOTE: This video was not made with the intention to disrespect any art or any teacher/practitioner within or out of this video. It is merely an opinion on the sometimes unrealistic level of compliance by the students and training partners and a suggestion to apply a more realistic force or resistance to the demonstrator **
In this Part 1 of the 2 part clip, Grandmaster Chu Shong Tin tests his power against an Olympic weight lifter nearly 3 times his size. You can judge for yourself the realism of this compared to other powerful demonstrations.
Here, as mentioned above, we discuss the reason why some people play the game of compliance when they are at the end of their teacher's movement. Nima share's his opinion on why this is not good for Kung Fu, the student, nor the teacher.
Kung Fu's internal power is real but some are turning it out to be mystical and playing the game of compliance which has been played for many decades if not centuries. This happens within the CST lineage a lot as well so again, this is not to point fingers to any person or method in particular but its a general issue within the Internal Arts. It gives Kung Fu a bad name in this day and age and it takes realism away from the demonstrations cause people are smart and can see when something is over exaggerated and put on.
So, perhaps this compliant way of testing each other's movements is one 'tradition' that we should break because it is not beneficial for the arts. The only benefit of giving compliant force is when teaching as described in the 10minute mark of this video...
PART 2 - COMING SOON - subscribe to ensure you don't miss it!
Ps. If you are interested in experiencing this method of Kung Fu , you can begin your practice online at: www.mindfulwingchun.online

[@inspiringothers7197]

This needed to be said, thanks for doing the internal arts justice mate. Hope all is well for you guys over in HK. :)

[@MindfulWingChun]

glad you think so mate. All is well here (all things considered 😅), hope same for you and yours!

[@agrainofsalt4889]

Great Video Nima! Keep those comin' 🙏

[@MindfulWingChun]

thank you 🙏🏼

[@phuongtrangdo]

Thank you so much and cant wait for the 2nd part. Cheers

[@MindfulWingChun]

My pleasure 👍🏼👍🏼

[@mauricem.9014]

Hey :) Love your work! Thank you for sharing your insights with us! Is it possible to learn the effortlessness of movement by one self with your online course? I‘m practicing the wong shun leung lineage for two years in germany now but i‘m very interested in this effortlessness... thank you🙏 best regards from germany . Maurice

[@MindfulWingChun]

Hey Maurice, Thanks for your kind comment! Yes of course it's possible to learn this method through the online school. There are hundreds of people doing that and many are from different lineages like you. Also, we have an online community group on Facebook for all the members where you can connect and meet up with other members in your area, as well as have direct access to myself, so you can post videos and questions and I will personally answer all of them. Actually, Germany has the biggest amount of online students in Europe and there is even a group of students from the online school that meets up in Munich every month (and it's set up by one of my students who has a good understanding in this method of practice). Let me know if you have any other questions and looking forward to having you onboard and helping you in your journey in this practice 🙏🏼

[@GDGClef1]

Your "keeping-it-real" perspective on explaining whatever the technique being demonstrated is so appreciated.

[@MindfulWingChun]

Thank you!

[@manoamano3699]

Thanks Nima for posting. :-)

[@MindfulWingChun]

I actually held off posting this for over 6months. I made it a while back but wasn't sure if I should post it up. Cause actually even within our lineage majority of people are doing this so I really hope people don't think I'm targeting them 😕

[@newjerseybalintawak]

Great stuff Sifu King!

[@MindfulWingChun]

Thank you Frank 🙏🏼

[@cameronburnett9679]

The tai chi guy is Huang Sheng Shyan. I trained in that lineage for a while. His student Wee Kee Jin is very skillful and I've trained with him a few times. It's as you say. There are videos of Wee Kee Jin doing that kind of stuff online and it just depends how much you give as to how much you get back.

[@MindfulWingChun]

Yes as I said in the video I'm sure they have skill, just a bit less reaction with the aftereffects would make the whole thing look more legit to the untrained eyes out there in my opinion.

[@smithystube]

You should look up Wee Kee Jin new teacher, the yiquan master Sam Tam. He considers Sam on a much higher level than his own. Which says a lot if one knows the skill level of Wee Kee Jin!

[@Bluedragon-co4kb]

@Mindful Wing Chun hey man great video dude! Don't look too far into it lol 😆 do you believe in chi projection? I've personally had it and felt it done to me up close and from a distance!! When it was up close it felt like someone had just turned on a hair dryer in front of my forehead lol

[@MindfulWingChun]

hey man. I've had Reiki done on during a teacher training course in which my eyes were closes and the master was behind me and I could absolutely feel something and she wasn't touching me. Not sure what to say about it apart from 'I surely felt somthing'. BUT, the no-touch Chi things that ppl use to throw others I definitely don't not belive in.

[@robertdreeben]

Very good and comprehensive video. My grandmaster was a classmate and friend of Chu Shong Tin. I have some thoughts on this subject . For those thumbs down naysayers, this is an isolated demonstration to show tensegrity and “Multi directional force”, an accurate term I like that I got from you. At 22:59 if you look closely Master Chu does not directly oppose the student’s structure. I was taught that every point of contact has six possible directions of change. WC is the study of change. It’s all about “ Point of contact and proximity to target”. So, master Chu ever so slightly brings the students center of gravity forward with his fist guiding his force thereby breaking the direct angle of resistance to maintain his angle of motion. In regards to other styles and masters, the ability to uproot and “bounce” people is Not a superhuman skill. There is actually a very fluid set of physics involved. No master is bouncing Berni Lomax, or a big piece of furniture, not happening. They’re dead objects. In all fairness to some of the other demonstrations mentioned, empty force only works when you are mentally-visually connected to another individual...and they are not aware of your actual intentions. Like a magicians skill of “misdirection” you can, very easily cause a person to move a certain way without touching them. We do it to babies and small children all the time just for fun. Offer them something then right before they grab it subtly pull it out of reach. They loose their balance. People generally on their own (usually not kung fu guys or gals) can trip on things while they’re walking because they’re not aware of the point of contact. Someone pretends to walk into them when they are in the proximity of an object, that person jumps, hits the object and could easily trip over. These are just two very basic examples of empty force. Essentially no contact has influenced another human beings movement. In Aikido and Tai Chi “leading” is a core concept, similar in fashion but usually involving some contact. Empty force happens when you’re driving a car. Another vehicle swerved into you, to get out of the way you turn to avoid him and possibly hit some thing else. It is the perceived impact that we are responding to. A human being’s reaction to a surprised mass and momentum coming at them can be very interesting to observe. A person is walking through a parking lot and a car backing out of a space is backing right into them. Many people will freeze like a deer in the headlights then bang on the car in anger to get the drivers attention. What should the reaction of a kung fu person be other than just being aware all the time? The point of contact is where the vehicle is going to strike your body. Proximity to target is where the car is as it’s moving towards you in time and space. Flight not fight should be your immediate reaction, obviously. Once you’re safely out of the way then admonish the driver. As far as students falling when a teacher pushes or twists an pulls at the point of contact; in some martial arts, specifically Russian, the recipient is encouraged to go with the energy and fall in a relaxed manner. This trains the student in a slow deliberate and safe format, to be able to relax their body completely and be able to fall in a fluid state. As you dial up the force and speed, your falling skill will develop exponentially. Obviously this is a cooperative drill. And in the presented video it should be stated as such so people don’t get the wrong impression. In Wing Chun we do plenty of cooperative drills. Without the cooperation and dispensing of egos, no learning will take place. Again thanks for all your good work and generous sharing of your knowledge.

[@MindfulWingChun]

Thanks very lucky for taking the time to share that Robert. A very constructive comment that adds value to this subject. Totally agree with what you said at the end where it should be mentioned that it is a cooperative drill, however some teachers get that super compliant response from a student and say things like "no matter what you do you won't be able to stop yourself from falling" or "your body belongs to me once I connect with it, so in a realistic situation it doesn't matter what you do, it won't effect me" and things like that. If in those videos the teacher instead says something like "eventhough I'm demonstrating this with a very compliant partner who is not trying their best to stop me, you can see that... (and then go on to explain what they are teaching)", in that case I think they would have a lot more respect from people watching and it would add a lot more credibility to their teachings.

[@robertdreeben]

@@MindfulWingChun You’re welcome Nima. And I totally agree. Too many narcissistically entitled teachers presenting Fantasy gives their system, that may be legitimate, a bad name. 👊🏼🤚🏼🙏🏼

[@peterkhew7414]

It's about training the appropriate response to a situation, instead of being overly aggressive or compliant, so that balance of yin and yang is achieve. This is the Aiki in Japanese Budo, and Taichi in Chinese Kungfu. Going with the flow sounds simple, but one has to have regular conditioning training to be in synchronicity with others and your surroundings.

[@joanstone6740]

Baguazhang is the art of change....

[@dingosmith9932]

Sifu Wong Shun Leung used to be quite fond of "testing" some of the other Gung Fu teachers. In his younger days. So I've heard. Great vid!

[@MindfulWingChun]

Yes thats what I hear too about WSL. Unfortunately it doesn't really happen much anymore these days in HK, but its starting to happen in Mainland China

[@wingchun-simplekungfu7584]

You are correct Dingo. Wong sifu would engage any opportunity to assess his own levels of skill. My sifu also told us he would challenge other schools when anything disrespectful was mentioned about Ip Man. We were fortunate to train with Wong in the early 80’s.

[@Rick.Sanchez]

All valuable teaching is open for testing. If it is not allowed to be (truly) tested, there is either fraudulence or dogmatism. Forthcoming CST and MWC shining through again. Kudos!

[@MindfulWingChun]

👊🙏

[@jakogelo]

Internal power was explained to me by my late Sifu, Jim Fung in Adelaide around 1991

[@MindfulWingChun]

nice. are you still practicing?

[@MrAgao127]

Thanks for this video

[@MindfulWingChun]

my pleasure 👍🏼

[@czechmate6475]

:) I enjoyed the video as always and I appreciate Nima's commentary in it. I'm standing in our garage fore more than 2 hours now and I'm trying. ':D I still wonder how their Grandmaster figured out this method (I mean I know... under what conditions he did it thanks to the story being told), he had to kind of reverse-engineer the process or take it apart in order for others to understand it, am I right? What a man. If I become a bonesetter would it help me to achieve this? ':D ...and what I wonder about even more is, couldn't some of the master Yap Boh Heong's methods, there are many, be similar to this? Does anybody know..?

[@MindfulWingChun]

Yeah he was a pretty special man and so very dedicated to figuring it out which is why he spent up to 8hrs a day practicing. And yeah he did reverse engineer it in a way. I actually asked him if having a better knowledge of the musculoskeletal system (I.e. being a bone setter) would help and he said that it would. And Master Bo's method is definitely not the same as this. Because while teaching at the first Martial Camp together, the last night night before I left Thailand and came back to Hong Kong, we spend around 3hours touching hands and sharing our methods and by the end he himself said that its different to what he thought.

[@czechmate6475]

@@MindfulWingChun Hello and wow, the man himself is answering my questions. :) I should have thought of that. :) Thanks a lot man. We actually talked here a couple months ago, you gave me a code for a free month of your online course. Didn't work for me back than, I had to build my physique due to my job and work on some injuries, but I'm about to get back to it soon! I can see that the master Bo's engine is something else for most times but I can't recognize it, I'm just a novice, at best... so thank you for that. I was super curious if you touched hands with some of the instructors at Martial Camp. ;) This is so not my level ':D but, how does the forces affect each other? I wouldn't ask you to pinpoint weaknesses or say this or that is better, I'm simply interested in both arts and I want to be able to distinguish what's what in my body. ':) I guess I should ask in ten years because I wouldn't understand it anyway... I feel terrible already for taking your time here but, I would kill to see you men pressure test your skills. Anyway, thanks for your insight, Tomas

[@MindfulWingChun]

@@czechmate6475 haha, yeah it was fun touching hands with the guys there. I've touched hands with them all except for Liang. They are all skillful in their own way 👍🏼

[@czechmate6475]

@@MindfulWingChun You are being very polite as always 🙏 I hope your art hasn't failed you back then. 😊

[@MindfulWingChun]

@@czechmate6475 My art has never failed me when touching hands with others in such friendly exchanges 😉

[@willtherealrustyschacklefo3812]

Your virtually completely correct as always brother lol tho there are maybe 2 or 3 tai chi masters I have came across that are truly able to do things like sifu did and toss resisting opponents around ect but it is a very extremely rare thing to come across one who really can do it at all much less in real combat. It takes a level of proper training and practice today's people just don't have. Things like this were still kept secret and rarely seen even in acient china

[@MindfulWingChun]

Yeah man I know for sure there have been and are real masters out there in many internal arts. That's why I wrote what I did in the video description, so that I dont upset people. And that's why I really hope students thing twice before being too compliant so that they can know if what their teachers are showing them is the real deal or not 👍🏼

[@willtherealrustyschacklefo3812]

Definitely agree and understand that lol

[@messengerofiexist2139]

Kieren Krieger is a martial arts journalist in search of skilled practioners. When Kieren met Adam Mizner he was an outsider who is not being polite. He was being a journalist with an open yet skeptical position.

[@MindfulWingChun]

I am friends with both Kieren and Adam. and have touched hands with them both... not sure why you brought up their names here but thanks for taking the time to comment :)

[@brandonlynn5976]

See.. I've been waiting for a long time to see this kind of thing. Because to see a bodybuilder, or a strict powerlifter, or strongman actually resist a high level internal martial artist.. that kind of makes the effectiveness of internal martial arts concrete and it solidifies it to me and a ton of other people who were just skeptical of it's usefulness in real self defense against a person who is a monster of an athlete

[@MindfulWingChun]

Yeah I'm glad this was caught on tape. And that the guy didn't act fakely and jump away like most do and resisted in a way that slightly moved his whole body. I think most would be able to tell that this demo was genuine when compared with most others 🤞🏼

[@brandonlynn5976]

@@MindfulWingChun I for one can definitely tell it's real lol I've never experienced any internal martial arts in person, which is sad to me lol, but I really sit alone and replay certain videos over and over again.. like sometimes I watch you or the grandmaster do something that I can tell would be super useful in a self defense situation and I'm so inspired by it, like one of my personal favorite videos is of the grandmaster lightly punching this really thick book that a guy had held up to his chest and of course the punch's effect was unbelievably effective lol... And i just replay that move from start to finish over and over again.. watching very closely literally amazed each time and I get so inspired and i think a lot about what can be achieved by training in the internal way instead of the external way..

[@MindfulWingChun]

@@brandonlynn5976 You sounds like the perfect enthusiast that would go veey far in the internal arts. Can you let me know your email address so I can send you something pls

[@brandonlynn5976]

@@MindfulWingChun oh, wow, yes sir! Thank you sir. I am very enthusiastic about this.. I've been searching for a way to learn and train to a high level in internal martial arts since I was 14 years old, and I'm now 20 years old and I'm seriously more dedicated to learning and training than i ever have been before. I would be very honored to train in this system. I am interested in internal martial arts as a lifestyle.. To be honest it is my main goal to become the highest level internal martial artist that I can possibly be.. I'd dedicate hours to this each day as I currently have all the time on my hands that I'd need to train every single day and progress further. thank you sir! 🙏🏼 My email address is, [e-mail]

[@MindfulWingChun]

@@brandonlynn5976 Great, I'll ask my colleague Michael to send you an email with a free 1month access to our online school 👍🏼

[@GiaoLong-kkk]

Anyone know sifu Chu Shong Tin achieved wing chun qi ( qi qong ) by only training siu nim tao or other qiqong style?

[@MindfulWingChun]

Yes, only through the practice of Siu NIm Tao. SO it goes to show the importance of the CORRECT ideas and method in the practice of this form. Actually the overall concept and ideas are very simple, but there is so many variables and subtleties involved which is why we spent literally thousands of hours doing Siu Nim TAo under his instruction here in Hong Kong before he passed. This is also the reason I put the online school together so that others can benefit from his teachings and find this Mind to Body connection a=that he named 'Nim Lik'...

[@musikinspace]

I have been absolutely amazed by this. Have you ever heard of the ideomotor effect, by which the body subconsciously initiates very subtle movement just by the person thinking about it, even if they just think about a certain direction? I wonder if it is somehow related to this.

[@MindfulWingChun]

Yeah it's pretty remarkable what Chu Shong Tin could do. And no I hadn't heard of ideometer effect however he did say that with prolonged practice (and when he pits on that state) all movements are seemingly controlled somewhat subconsciously. Interesting! Have you had any experience with that yourself?

[@GilesHartop]

nothing to do with what u mentioned you have to feel it to experience it

[@76kamikazi]

Can any of this be applied in a real fighting situation under pressure without the opponent agreeing to move this way or that way,now if i see that I’ll be convinced.

[@justinfair5216]

Great points. On your points about partnered training... To learn, the teacher or the practising peers must allow the younger, aspiring student access to the technique and allow access into their body... In order for them to feel how the concept is applied and the dynamics of its working . It is cooperation. The one performing the action needs the receiver to take an inferior position, giving the advantage to the player. It is an agreement made to enable learning. To try to dominate another player all of the time, is like standing in front of the blackboard, obscuring the view of the lesson. Chen said invest in losing. This is one aspect of investment in loss.

[@MindfulWingChun]

100% agree, as long as the compliance doesn't become unrealistic to a point where the practitioner is being misinformed through the feedback

[@lerojo]

The Pro Wrestling industry like in the WWE (like Hulk Hogan etc) call it 'selling' or 'over selling'. These students over sell the movements that their sifu makes

[@MindfulWingChun]

That's a great way to put it actually, for when the camera is on. But I think the student would probably act the same way even if it was a private lesson and they were alone with the teacher. I feel it comes out of respect for many, but its the wrong kind of respect in my opinion

[@fauxz3782]

What are your thoughts of Sifu sergio? I met him in person and he literally threw me around, pinned me down.. It was insane.... He has a seminar coming up next month, you should go

[@MindfulWingChun]

haha, I should go to his seminar?! I'm good thanks. Have touched hands with Sergio a couple of times. We did the First Martial Man camp together also in Thailand in 2018

[@fauxz3782]

@@MindfulWingChun how was it? Do you think he is very good

[@tonyvalente]

People can say what they want , these guys live to 80 and 90. MMA guys are lucky to make 60 yrs old . Health is wealth

[@MindfulWingChun]

Health is definitely wealth 🎯

[@liweng7810]

Totally agree, Nima. IMO these demos do nothing but harm the proper transmission of internal kungfu. All it does is to further mystify the internal system and then build a cult-like following delusional about the realities of combat. It is just absurd to suggest that one can gently touch an opponent and make them jump up and down or drop to the ground as if their entire body disintegrates. I've seen taichi masters do that in China. Yes, it's not completely fake, but it takes a specific set of conditions for that to happen. It's certainly irrelevant to actual fighting, because as soon as my student with just one year of training attacked those masters with real fighting intent, they were utterly embarrassed. I believe there needs to be a fine line between actual fight force/skill demos and mind sensitivity or qigong demos, which are essentially what those exaggerated stuff is. Most people don't understand the difference and it seems that some teachers like to intentionally keep it that way.

[@MindfulWingChun]

Well said man. Yeah my worry is that some teacher actually believe that they are able to pull that off against a non-compliant person, let alone in a fight...

[@liweng7810]

@@MindfulWingChun True, some of them have been demoing on respectful students/visitors for too long that they eventually fool themselves into believing in the exaggerated stuff. From my own observation, quite a lot of them like to talk about cultivating the path of enlightenment and letting go of the self, but in fact, it's often they who end up developing guru syndrome and get drowned in their ego. I've no problem with these of demos if they're just having a bit of fun amongst themselves, and as long as they explain it honestly. But if they demo it with the suggestion that this is the correct internal kungfu path or that it's some sort of ultimate internal skill, then there's a huge problem. When I was in China, I came across a Taichi master who explained that a lot of what they did and the effects he was able to achieve on his students was like doing a lab experiment, meaning the variables are controlled. So it cannot be replicated in a chaotic fight situation where too many extraneous variables exist. At least he was open and honest about the fact that they were just exploring and studying the phenomenon of body and mind through partcular methods, instead of presenting it as a fight skill. I believe that's how this should be approached. If everyone was as clear-headed and honest, the internal kungfu world would be thriving.

[@MindfulWingChun]

@@liweng7810 Nice to hear that some are being honest about it like the guy you mentioned, and I think keeping it real like that would create a very nice and open training atmosphere both for him and his students 👍🏼

[@easternmovementprinciples4799]

Good work bro. I love your respectful way of pointing out the b.s. to part of internal arts and their overly compliant/hypnotised students which is doing an injustice to true internal arts. Reminds me of the time my teacher called up a no touch ‘master’ & warmed him not to teach that nonsense to some of his students or he would have to go and show him what real internal power is 😂 Your teacher clearly has the real ‘useable’ skills of internal arts, same as yourself. Keep up the great work 👊

[@MindfulWingChun]

Cheers bro. Yeah it has to be said publicly cause I'm afraid Kung Fu in general is getting a bad rep cause of silly reactions ot compliant students, and it makes all the effort that people like us are putting in seem wasteful. I remember you and I discussing this in person a few years back, and am sure many people in the internal arts feel the same so beat we just come out and say it. Hope you and the fam are well man. You guys are so lucky in Oz not having to really deal with covid (touch wood). Hope to catch uo with you again in the near future

[@easternmovementprinciples4799]

@@MindfulWingChun keep it up bro. Thanks, fam are good & yes we are lucky from what I can see so far covid wise. You guys keep well, & would love to see you again in the future

[@Gieszkanne]

"compliant/hypnotised " are the wrong terms here!

[@Viewpoint314]

The master at the front with Chu Shon Tin is Wang Kiu who was a good friend of Wong Shun Leung.

[@MindfulWingChun]

yeah actually Wong Shun Leung was at this seminar with CST. They did a 30min presentation each

[@collectiveunconscious3d]

Could you please analyze some of the actual recent footage of "masters" who induce this "chi jumping" effect? Either people are baching on these guys, which discredited them to a certain extend and just fuels hatred and even more misguidance. Or they don't mention them at all and refer to "some teachers". As you said, you should call them and it would be good for people to understand what is real and what is not cause for many it's really confusing. Potentially a very expensive venture or a dangerous one in terms of false beliefs.

[@MindfulWingChun]

yes a very taxing venture indeed. That's why I thought it's best for people to judge for themselves and I'm on no positions to name people and call them out and hope that with this video atleast I encourage the students to be a bit less compliant with their teachers for the sake of keeping it all more real. I'm not out to make any enemies or take food away from people's mouths, but just wanted to highlight the reality of what is happening in a big sector of the internal arts

[@nickmccarthy8783]

The second master shown is Huang Sheng Shyan. He was a tai chi master. Some say one of the greatest of all time. He could fight! He entered a competition against an all Asia grappling champion who was 30kg heavier and half his age. Master Huang won 26 throws to nil! He also defeated a silat master who became so scared of Master Huang that he ran away. He later said Master Huang used black magic to beat him. I know this because a friend of mine trained with him and saw him do many mysterious and supernatural things. She saw him lift a bowl of water by just putting his fingers in yhe water. A trick? Maybe, but based on his other skills, maybe not! I think one of his top students still teaches. His name is Patrick Kelly.

[@MindfulWingChun]

thanks for sharing that 🙏🏼

[@user-ed5lt2nw5m]

All martial arts cannot violate Newton's three laws.The key is that the fulcrum of gravitational acceleration is on the soles or shoulders.The momentum formed is different.

[@MindfulWingChun]

Indeed!

[@maximuslaurie5139]

oh good i think i heard this story mentioned about chum kiu, but haven't seen it yet

[@MindfulWingChun]

Yeah I found the seminar online a while ago and saved this clip. But now I can't find the whole seminar any more. perhaps it was taken down. It was a joint seminar with Cju Shong Tin and Wong Shun Leung

[@maximuslaurie5139]

oh sad, I was wondering what time CST usually woke up at in the morning. Also, it seems like other masters dont often refer to Chu Shong Tins methods

[@notusingmyname4791]

9:10 that kind of respect... that looks like placating and ass kissing, more than respect. A respectful person would offer real world feedback, even to the point of skepticism and some questioning so that the teacher gains introspection and insight to his/her own art and improves as a teacher.

[@MindfulWingChun]

Indeed!!!

[@robertorossi4361]

Agree completely. That being said, I have yet to seen anybody that can do anything that's not just about technique, body mechanics (moving body and lims in a way that breaks the other persons structure), and power. Which makes it hard to believe what you see with some of the Tai Chi masters. Have a really hard time believing they can do what it "looks like" they're doing to their students to me.

[@MindfulWingChun]

Yeah man I would put my money on the outcome nor being the same if they tried to do the same thing to you or someone who was not being compliant at all

[@robertorossi4361]

@@MindfulWingChun Yes in some cases for sure, but when it comes to some Tai Chi exercises you se a lot, it's of course a lot easier to use push pull techniques on people not knowing anything about detachment. A lot of over extending the arms which also makes them a bit easier to manipulate. That being said, as I haven't touched arms with any Tai Chi master, I might get the surprise of a life time, who knows.

[@markl8679]

I did notice how close the practitioner kept his elbow to his chest. The big guy could only rely on his strength in his one arm and shoulder compared to the whole body of the other.

[@MindfulWingChun]

Yes there is definitely good bio mechanics at play which included using the center of mass efficiently, using multidirectional force with the joints etc. it can be explained with physics but it's not an easy skill to have

[@dharma_star]

Maybe show the clip first,then explain the details?Just a suggestion:) Or,are you trying to keep the viewer in suspense with those freeze frames? :)

[@MindfulWingChun]

Good call! I'm ranting on again 😅🤦🏻‍♂️

[@wingchun-simplekungfu7584]

@@MindfulWingChun I didn’t mind the rant 👍🏻

[@outofthebox7]

There is definitely something beyond mechanics, but subtle mechanics mastered can give off a false impression; that's what bothers me when done on purpose.

[@MindfulWingChun]

absolutely. Me too 😊

[@justandy7963]

My old sifu did a Lap Sau on me and I went flying. My rear leg went flying up and I was almost horizontal. Maybe both feet were off the ground. I would have slammed face first into the ground if he had not caught me. Another time he did the thing from the 3rd form where the back of his leg pushes against the back of my leg (like if the enemy does a step forward to punch). Again, my forward leg went flying and I was almost horizontal, maybe both feet off the ground, and he had to catch me. This time with my face facing the sky! It might have looked fake but I could not have faked that even if I tried. He had a completely different school of thought than Chu Shong Tin. His was more a Samuel Kwok lineage, but still deadly. He's Trevor Jefferson, he's got some long vids on the forms. Don't know if he's still alive. The problem I have is a lack of discipline and I have too much of a monkey mind that jumps around between different interests, like inventions and experiments and studying! I usually sorta do things my own way and tread my own path... can't help it!

[@MindfulWingChun]

Yeah Andy that's my point, that there are times and situation in all martial arts where the movement is so genuinely on-point that it gets that kind of huge result, and that's great. However when the student tries to make every single movement look like that with their reaction, that's when it takes it away from reality and gives the teacher a false sense of security. Hope you're well mate...

[@Gieszkanne]

I have no doubt in these higher skill but its qustionable if the practioner could still apply it in real combat there is a vice report "Underground Bare Knuckle Boxing in the UK" Actually Samuel Kwok took part with a student of him. I dont know about the skill of his student but that Kwok took part and show his face in this report says a lot. But he get beat up by a guy without any great skill. Not even in boxing and you couldnt even see much Wing Chun.

[@Aniontedone]

To his right is wang kui

[@MindfulWingChun]

Yeah this was a seminar Wang Kiu had set up for Chu Shong Tin and Wong Shun Leung.

[@vikroy3777]

It looks like probably an OK form of exercise, nothing specific, but incorporates a little bit of hand to eye co-ordination, flexibility and choreography and some fun involved.

[@MindfulWingChun]

definitely some fun has to be involved :)

[@thedoctor7151]

It’s like you almost understand it but inches away.

[@MindfulWingChun]

pls do explain if you feel it will contribute to people's understanding 🙏🏼

[@greg6509]

I guess my question is whether this video's intention is to say that the subtle internal power displayed by Taijiquan Sifu's of the Yang and Old Yang and also some Baguazhang master's is not real or effective for any combat usuage? I'm not going to name names as I know you don't want to either, but in here you talk about seminars where they couldn't do it to you and I know you've done the MM seminars in Thailand. So spill the beans without naming names if the point of this is to say you don't think the internal Jins in Taijiquan can be used for combat.

[@MindfulWingChun]

It's nothing against Taichi, or as mentioned the teacher in this video, but merely highlighting the over exaggerating of the effect by the partner/studnet. And yes, I can say noone that I have touched hands with outside of CST, has been able to demonstrate any kind of outstanding force on me.

[@greg6509]

@@MindfulWingChun I'm definitely doing my best to refrain from asking names 😂. I'm learning from one of the Sifu's online the Yang Style Gu Lisheng, Yang Shao Hou's lineage included, and it's neigong is fantastic. I will say though so far though it doesn't talk as much yet about consciously opening and closing the joints using Qi (although the exercises open and close the joints by simply doing them) as say another instructor I learned from in the past Bruce Kumar Francis. When I touched hands with him his Jin using Ji sent me. No excessive cooperation he was just scary and legit 😂🥴. But the online program all the Neigong techniques with the stretching and twisting fascia and adhering qi to the spine and sinking qi I have found to be very energizing and I feel it. And seems very in line with the authentic old ways of adhering qi to the spine when bending the bow before shooting the arrow while sinking qi and vibrating lower dantian. Chen Kung (Yang Family Secrets Manuals) books discuss this too. Anyways, Qi is used for energy healing and staying alive haha. It's vital energy, In my opinion, Qi has to be converted into a telekinetic energy (a certain "Jin") which some of the old neigong practices do I believe. These include the ones of being aware of the fascia and twisting and twining while being fully sung. Separating bone from flesh. Tendon changing exercises as well as bone marrow washing and bone marrow breathing to convert Qi to Jin. I don't know how many of those practices are taught in Wing Chun versus Ba Gua Zhang and Old Yang Taijiquan which definitely teach them. It's all very interesting though. I think one of the problems is that people think ordinary Qi which is vital energy running through the meridians and into the cells, although there's many types, can be used for self-defense. This is just a fallacy. But the Yi can lead the Qi and the Jin when cultivated. I believe the joints have to be open along the whole pathway and the whole body needs to be sung to fully maximize the release/transfer of Jin. But Jin isn't going to feel like the warmth/tingling energy from ordinary Chi. If it's short power Jin, it's going to hit hard and you might wake up on the floor 😂. I think even mixed martial artists with some of their trainings are generating this type of Jin. If we don't know what to call or how it's internal alchemy is occuring its no big deal. We can all call it something different. But I respect the Chinese terminology as there is an inner science to it including converting Qi to Jin. Think Waysun Liao Tai Chi Classics. Anyways, watch Huang Sheng-shyan publicized match with the wrestler if you haven't and are curious. You could see at the one point when the wrestler is so pissed that he hasn't been able to throw him down once and he's gotten thrown down many, many times lol. No it didn't look like one of his "compliant" students. But this White Crane and Yang Style Taijiquan Master definitely could apply his Jin against resistance. I believe because a student of a teacher is more receptive to their Qi they are also more receptive to their mind intent and the teacher may be able to influence that Qi inside their body more readily. So it's not that the students are faking it usually, my personal belief is their Master's just controlling their Qi better than the student themselves can with their own stronger Qi and Yi and therefore better able to control their body literally at will/Yi. Hard to say if that one high level technique I can't remember the name of from your master is Kundalini energy or a form of telekinetic Jin. But part of the whole fun of the internal martial arts is discovering things like Indiana Jones 😂. If internal martial artists just wanted to kill people they would buy a gun haha. But if you read the stories about Yang Shao Hou who could fight, his students would wake up on the ground all the time. And he couldn't keep most students as they didn't like getting hurt. So like you mentioned in your videos, with any of these martial arts you have to actually train them for fighting with useful fighting drills and combat practice to be able to use them for fighting/self defense. Peace brother 🙏

[@MindfulWingChun]

@greg6509 man thank you so much for taking the time to share all of that. Much appreciated! I can feel your passion and enthusiasm for the internal arts from yoir words so I'm sure we would have great time discussing things in person over a meal or beverage. So if you ever pass by HK pls do let me know

[@greg6509]

@@MindfulWingChun Thank you! Will do brother 🙏

[@gurugeorge]

I think perhaps the word that encapsulates what you're talking about is "deference." Polite submission and respect - it's a cultural thing to do with respect for teachers and elders isn't it? It's part of the East Asian cultural context, but it doesn't work in the West for martial arts demonstrations because we want to see the plain truth of what's going on, regardless of social position. That's our "way." Of course the word being English it has a use in the English context, but in that context it usually refers to deference in more of a mental sense - to expert opinion, scholarly opinion, a teacher's opinion, etc., also when seniority is involved too. But in this East Asian martial arts context, it's what one might call "physical deference" :) IIRC the exaggerated leaping is also a bit mythological in that the power of the teacher is supposed to be so strong that if you don't dissipate the force by that bouncing around it's believed it might do you damage. But the exaggeration turns off Western martial arts enthusiasts (and I suppose increasingly, under the influence of the search for authenticity in MMA, for some East Asian young people too). Which is a shame, because there's undoubtedly something real and physical at the basis of these skills that's very interesting, but not known in the West, except I think in some old-timey magic show skills (cf. the "Magnetic Girl" aka the "Georgia Magnet").

[@MindfulWingChun]

Yes, there absolutely is something real behind it. Hence why I mentioned in the video that I believe the gentleman in the video has good skills, but the extra rolling on the floor etc is not necessary and it's clear to see that the student wouldn't get harmed if he didn't add that part in. I'm all for 'going with the force' but not to that extreme as in my opinion it makes the whole thing look fake, and also may give a false sense of security to the people involved and they may believe that they can do that to anyone giving non compliant resistance. Also, sometimes students use muscular force on purpose wo highlight the teacher's Jin force. and that is fine in my opinion. That will create a very powerful effect, but even then, sometimes students put an extra few steps at the end or fall to the floor. that extra stuff is what I believe is unnecessary.

[@Freddy19677]

My apologies Sifu I accidentally disliked.I am a Grand Master Chu Shong Tin lineage practitioner and a supporter of your work ✊

[@MindfulWingChun]

Haha, no worries Gary. You can just hit the like button to undo the dislike 😅 And thanks for the support man; Who do you train under in this lineage?

[@Freddy19677]

@@MindfulWingChun I’ve only just started studying traditional Chinese martial arts , I come from a street fighting background ( HCS Harbour City Service causals / 161 crew ( AFA ) and done boxing when I was a teenager. Chi Sau Club , IWCA & Northern preying mantis Stanmore ✊

[@MindfulWingChun]

@@Freddy19677 So you're with Mark now at Chisau Club yeah?

[@Freddy19677]

@@MindfulWingChun I’m originally from Newcastle and I work in construction so punching on was a regular occurrence. I’ve been involved in organised hooliganism for years , though I’m more chilled out these days due to many convictions, good behaviour bonds and my lovely partner being concerned about me being incarcerated etc

[@MindfulWingChun]

@@Freddy19677 yeah I remember reading about some stories in your other comments. Good to hear you are keeping it together these days

[@stephengrealy6237]

Some of those other videos reminded me of a Steven Seagal demonstration.!

[@MindfulWingChun]

😅😅

[@user-kp3hd9wr4w]

you are misunderstanding aikido

[@MindfulWingChun]

Could you kindly clarify that pls?

[@bhmcrumbs1348]

I'd love to watch the video with less repetitive commentary & interruptions. We all get the point from the onset.

[@MindfulWingChun]

Yeah some people wanna see the clips, others wants detailed explanation. I tried to make this 2 part video more like a podcast but with clips. One thing that you can do to skip my ranting is to skip forward to when the clips start 👍🏼

[@Gieszkanne]

Nice, but I wouldnt say that "overreaction" is complience or a kind of fake. I would say that some people are not open for chi/ chi manipulation. Like not every person is open for hypnosis.

[@MindfulWingChun]

You are right that we can label every situation as fake, but a lot of them are, and are making kung fu look bad as a result. I have met and touched hands with so many of the so called "internal" masters in the past 10years and even when using muscular force, they are not able to do much impressive stuff, but the same people on video make others fly through the air or hit the ground with small movements. So my experience has been such that there is a huge amount of over reaction and compliance in their students.

[@Gieszkanne]

@@MindfulWingChun You are training internal WC for a long time and tell that CST was able to withstand the skill of other internal masters. So you are no benchmark. But there are also average who can withstand internal masters that is true. But I still dont think that their students fake anything. I dont think that you get my point.

[@wingchun-simplekungfu7584]

This is a good video and topic. Why would these students bother training under a teacher who they must realise is not able to demonstrate the skills he claims to have? Just doesn’t make any sense. I think I have witnessed more teachers with very poor levels of skill, though, than teachers pretending to have special powers. Funny to watch , but really quite disturbing

[@MindfulWingChun]

Yeah it really doesn't make sense why they do it. But perhaps people like to be part of a group (like a cult mentality) and so they want to believe and go with the flow of the teacher/leader. But still, its amazing that that kind of mentality is present in the world of Martial Arts

[@BambooMantis]

Doesn’t mean he can Use this technique to fight

[@MindfulWingChun]

Doesn't mean that he can not also. It shows his capabilities to produce enormous power. It shows the potential of the human body and superb biomedical control.

[@BambooMantis]

@@MindfulWingChun I meet 徐師傅 in 1996 and he Is so powerful on his wing chun technique I has Ever see from other wing chun teacher,but if you just Focus on those technique only without sparring training,I don’t think is Useful

[@Andrew-qy1kz]

@@BambooMantis I’m totally with you. It doesn’t mean you can use it in a fight at all. Fights are dynamic and quick so unless you train and adapt to that this stuff is useless. Better to show the technique in a dynamic quick way kinda like a fight otherwise it’s just a useless “ look what I can do!” But where and how can you use this in a fight with someone trying to knock your head off or throw you to the ground?

[@maximuslaurie5139]

well each type of training corresponds to some fighting skills. If you want the method to train all aspects of fighting at once, then you would have to just fight. of course, you are right that sparring is the closest thing. Anyway, training forms this way is for power and chi sao is for pressure testing. usually chi sao gets criticized for not using power. Well each part isolates a dimension of fighting.

[@bodhi8828]

Ever seen or touched hands with Adam Mizner? I feel like he's legit and his teaching of tai chi seems to be very similar to the CST lineage

[@MindfulWingChun]

Yes we had a play in Thailand a few years back. Was great fun. He has skill, but what he does is not the same as what we do in the CST lineage

[@voisx]

in which way are they different? adam mizner seems to have great skills, but appear too commercial for me

[@MindfulWingChun]

@@voisx it's a complete different method of practice and so the results are different. In what we do, we can ask someone to resist our movement in any part of the body and be able to produce force from any joint under resistance. so therefore we can do things like lift inanimate objects, do body weight stuff etc. (as explained in in part 2 of the video). I haven't come across any other internal practitioner that I have can do that (yet). But I'm sure there are ppl out there

[@Aznbomb3r]

​@@MindfulWingChun Have you ever asked Adam Mizner if he can lift heavy objects too?

[@MindfulWingChun]

@@Aznbomb3r no I didn't ask him

[@workdays8280]

100% real

[@MindfulWingChun]

👊

[@Jenjak]

Huang Sheng Shian students used to be very extra too much compliant to make him look extra super good. But he was skilled.

[@MindfulWingChun]

Actually I didn't know who the gentleman was and just picked the video randomly from YT when looking for compliant students. But as I said in the video I'm sure he's skillful, and now after I posted it a few people like yourself are confirming that 👍🏼👍🏼

[@Jenjak]

@@MindfulWingChun Yeah I trained with one of his direct students Master James Lau King, him and all his students are very good at pushing hands and they all have very unique energy, they don't all apply their internal skills the same way. So I can only conclude Master Huang was legit. But on videos, his demos are always a bit wacky.

[@Gieszkanne]

There is a video of Huang where he wrestle with a wrestler who was strong build in an open "match" He still could control him but it didnt looked impressive or supernatural.

[@Jenjak]

@@Gieszkanne yeah but the wrestler was terribly bad and drunk.

[@Gieszkanne]

@@Jenjak I cant see that he was drunk and I dont ever saw him fight against a "normal" person so I cant say much about his skill. How do you can?

[@Tank1]

this is real because, this is Tai Chi, i have a master in China i went over because my wife is from China and she has a Tai chi Sifu. we hung out alot and one day he was demostrating, and all the students and him noticed i was pikcing things up fast. and natural... so he started teaching me for free. cause he said its rare, and he gets such a headache from teaching people but he could tell me even though i am foreign chinese and didnt fully understand alot of things, he could do it and tell me a few things and id pick it up instantly... so lets say he shown me and taught me things that hes only ever taught 2 of his students, because simply they cannot pick it up.. its takes them years, and sometimes never.. it was really like those chinese kung fu dramas, where sifu would tell them the formular and hed become a genius fighter lol.... so ya i pretty much learn how to do this in about 5 seconds, and not only that, understand and firgure other things out for myself.... mr mrs is smaller than me and slim.. shes petite,, and i swear, im natural strong.. and im not small and we use to spar alot doing tai chi and wrestle, we even hired out a hotel room cause we was staying in hotels, the biggest room in the hotel it was HUGE.. and we ended up sparring lol.. i swear before i learn this, because she already knew... i would really struggle was breaking out in a sweat and barely get even, tbh she would out power me.... oh God soon as a learnt, and visualised what he taught.. she cant even compete now... such good times and she got so angry one time, she actually went pretty hard after a learnt... and SIFU basically shown one of the tai chi forms, and it was basically a throw, for people that dont know, each and every movement has a powerpoint and is basically a move.. and the one he was showing basically in thin air, slowly as a form... he was talking about how it was very useful but he hadnt used it on anyone yet.... anyway this time she got mad, basically charged at me like a bull cause i was beating her every where and she couldnt believe it as it took her years and alot of money hahahaaahahahah... she charge at me like a bull, and i just remembered SIfu telling us about that move.. and i literally used and applied it there and then and completely flip her over and ended up in a armbar... she was so angry but i destroyed her soul that night haahaha she never dared challenge me again. i do it on my friends cause they see videos these days with all the fake flying crap from students.. were students over react, and people think its all fake.. not true at all.. what we see in this video is the real stuff, a 60 year old man, 1/3 of the size not just a average man but a bodybuilder.. and he was getting out done.. its real. 100% the black guy isnt pretending or faking it, its 100% real. my sifu smoked, and wed often go for meals together in restaurants, hed get his lighter out, have one student push against 4 or 5 other students... and he would get his lighter out and say, look i dont even have to touch him.. and he would place his lighter on the one guys back with absolutely no effort... the other 4 or 5 students would fall back... its nice to see real videos circulating instead of lies and trashing chinese martial arts cause people lack knowledge....... thanks for the video. good stuff.

[@MindfulWingChun]

Hey man, thanks for taking the time to share that with us. And yes I totally agree with you. great to see thaere are other people out there who are in agreeance and are working and training hard to preserve the REAL internal abilities of Chinese Kung Fu! Wishing you all the best and hope you pass on what you know to others :)

[@hopewellonedd]

i dont know about any body 😌 i only know u r real lol my thigh still hurt lol 😋

[@MindfulWingChun]

Haha, nah man you took that kick like it was a mosquitoe 😂 Hope you and your wife are doing well man. I enjoy watching you guys in action on Facebook. A very lively couple 🕺💃

[@foggyautumn9587]

You talk too much, and repeatative, instead of showing how the internal energy can be used by a practioner.

[@whatever6590]

Come on bro.. be kind..

[@MindfulWingChun]

I do talk too much. Guilty as charged :) however I don't twist anyone's arm and force them to watch my videos and am doing my best to give back as much as I can in the hopes that people out there may benefit from my efforts.

[@user-im9xq7fp5r]

just the same as of his demo, regardless of polite, compliant or not, the person being done to have to be motionless, reactionless no bracing like a dummy. no difference than with party tricks in general. All his foreign students marveled his party tricks and all ended up with mediocrity in the wing Chun journey!! Quackery aside, internal martial arts should be shown dynamically to inspire students especially in wc !! ...and not with non-reactive fighting mode. TIME TO RISE ABOVE THE DOWN-UNDER MENTALITY !

[@MindfulWingChun]

So, as I asked you in my other comment in the other video, are you in Hong Kong? And if so would you like to meet up with me at my school and we can have a dynamic play. Excuse me if you are older and can not do it yourself, I that case would you be able to bring in a younger students to have a play? Again, you seem to have so many bad things to say about my teacher and always trolling videos, and I have not banned you from the page or delete your comments, and am always speaking respectfully, so would you pls do me the courtesy to atleast meet up?!

[@user-im9xq7fp5r]

@@MindfulWingChun would love to do that ?? if not because of geographical and covid constraint, would live to do that, I m 67 yrs old soon, must do my part to steer people back to the true internal arts way...have been planning 36 episodes on wing chum ditta, axioms and fundamentals...once out, it would be your turn to troll me back....that s when I couldn't convince you.

[@user-im9xq7fp5r]

@@MindfulWingChun BTW, would you use a vaccine that had never been tested using real, living, moving lab mice ?? or, you would lend credence to a vaccine tested merely on non-moving, accommodating lab rats?? Same in all wc techniques, the proper , and only, didactic format with serious intent to impart is to show it with dynamism.

[@MindfulWingChun]

@@user-im9xq7fp5r I don't have time to troll people mate. And if you are 67 then it makes zero sense for me and I need to pay respects to my elders. Having said that, do you have a student that would be interested in meeting up and having a friendly chisau with one of my students? We can film it or not, up to you guys... And I have no idea what you're trying to imply with the lab rat example. I'm from Sydney Australia. Before I came to live in Hong Kong is 2005, I was working as a bouncer in Sydney's Kings Cross in early 2000. You can Google what that area was like in those days. So I have had my share of real fighting experience and know what works. not slapping hands around in chisau, but real life and death situations... So if you're trying to imply that I haven't tested my craft, with all due respect, you're barking up the wrong tree. So pls let me know if you have any students that would be up for meeting up and having a play with one of mine. I'll put forth one of my smallest students. He is 58kgs. And I think he would be comfortable with having a play with any of your students up to let's say 80kgs. let me know pls

[@user-im9xq7fp5r]

@@MindfulWingChun forget about your students, my students could gor sau with you, from sticking or free form format. I just wish we were geographically closer. it surprised me that you did bounce in club and have experienced real situations *...many a time and with nin-dead drunk assies) but paradoxically subscribed to these party tricks. BTW, respect is not age-based in martial arts, it is skill-based.

[@mrsandman3919]

super duper fake

[@MindfulWingChun]

🤣🤣🤦🏻‍♂️