Internal vs External Recording -- Panasonic S1 x Atomos Ninja V

Internal vs External Recording -- Panasonic S1 x Atomos Ninja V
The Atomos Ninja V is a great tool for filmmakers looking to get Prores footage from their cameras -- but are the recording options any better than the internal recording options of the Panasonic S1? Let's find out!
Kit used to make this video:
Canon C500 Mark II
Canon 85mm F1.4
Canon 35mm F1.4
Canon 100mm Macro F2.8
Music from Artlist and Audiio.
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[@CoreyEmbring]

I hope Panasonic continues to de-nerf this camera like they have been.

[@roveism]

I wish Magic lantern would open this camera up.

[@osmanlatif9369]

So much effort for this video 🙏 i almost but the ninja v. But now i am not that excited. May i buy mc21 adapter. Thank you so much. By the way what about shadow and highlight recovery with internal and external 🙏 thank your for video

[@gamepat9]

Just got the NinjaV for my S5 on a discount for 450€, but I gotta say I‘m not impressed. In my tests the external recording is always worse than the internal quality. Like in your examples I have much more noise with the Ninja. And It’s noise that I cant just fix „for free“ with some noise reduction in Davinci Resolve. If I apply as much noise reduction in order to get to the same clarity as the internal recording, it looks more mushy. I have no clue why that is. But apparently that‘s just how it is. The only advantage I see is with RAW, but that has it‘s own challenges that might not be worth it for me.

[@RotterStudios]

Thanks so much! Subbed. Almost bought the ninja V for my GH5 but will NOT. Getting the Shinobi instead....atomos monitor only. Can’t justify close to $1,000 for Ninja V and accessories. Dodged a financial bullet.

[@sundersquare]

I'd love the music to be a bit quieter, or even not be there, just to totally focus on the info

[@roveism]

TLDR : Atomos = pointless

[@50450720]

Can you have a look at the internal 5.9k quality on the s1. Is it noticeable better than the internal 4k and does external recording offer any more quality than internal 5.9k?

[@lovefirst6157]

This was very nice review and very good to know.

[@NotAnotherRentalCo]

Thanks for watching!

[@hufman9807]

You donkey. Internal is partial luminance, external prores is full. That will effect contrast depending on how your NLE handles it.

[@BirdsEyePortugal]

Why can you record full frame with the atomos?

[@ShellyBHollis]

Really good review, this is my go to camera

[@soonskystudio1252]

Sry, I am curious, Ninja V cant record 10bit 422 at full frame mode?

[@ArthurDaniel100]

I'm curious too...

[@NotAnotherRentalCo]

I think technically it can - but the setup just doesn't confirm it - they wanted to hold that off for the S1H. But in theory, yes you can.

[@josemiguelherrerapalacin2816]

Someone knows if the lumix s5 crops at 4k prores 422 ?

[@legacylegacy2603]

can't do fullframe shot with atomos ninja??

[@tranquilo4640]

I never record on 8 bit using Lumix S1, 10 bit is much better image and post. And if I go Ninja, I'll start from 10bit up to Prores Raw

[@KeithsTVHD1]

I mostly shoot in 1080P, Can i record 1080p externally on the ninja 5?

[@CanditoTrainingHQ]

Why would you do that? 1080 is line skipped, which is signifiacantly worse quality than oversamping 4k to 1080. I understand convenience, but it seems very silly to have an external monitor and get the worst of all worlds. No portability and worse quality than a native 1080 camera.

[@giovannitappa6040]

Hello, you definitely can record 4K 25fps 4:2:2 10bit full frame signal from the S1 to the ninja V. If you need help, go to page 250 of lumix S1's user manual ;)

[@NotAnotherRentalCo]

Ah yes - you're right! I had suspected it was possible and they didn't want to say because it somewhat devalues the S1H, but I found it on page 252 of the manual that whatever recording options you set the camera to, the recording follows!

[@JanSur]

So there no way to recorded 4K 25p 10bit full frame externally?

[@BoyBlessing]

I have the same question but he’s not answering

[@mmike855]

@@BoyBlessing Fairly certain you can, but I'm looking for any other reviewer who has stated this limitation.

[@NotAnotherRentalCo]

If you set the camera to 4k 25p 10 bit, there's no way of knowing for sure that the camera is actually outputting this. The Ninja will say it's recording 10bit, but that's because that's what it's chosing to encode it as, rather than telling you the signal it's receiving. I imagine it is sending 10bit, but if that's the case, why doesn't the S1 list that in it's 'External Record' settings? It's a questions for Panasonic I think; I'll try and get in touch and report back.

[@micahmahaffey5919]

@@NotAnotherRentalCo because at launch the s1 couldnt do 10bit out through a recorder, they added that with VLOG

[@marcofazio1318]

@@NotAnotherRentalCo if you set 10bit hdmi output on the camera you will send a 10bit signal to the Ninja5. No matter what frame rate you are using (it has to be below the 50p o the 60p selected on hdmi output) So yes, of course you can record 4k 24/25/30p in 10bit full frame with ninja 5. You cannot record both internally/externally if the 10bit hdmi output is selected.

[@abneresteban5502]

what cable you use HDMI?????

[@NotAnotherRentalCo]

Search 'SlimHDMI' on your favourite next day delivery website!

[@bencorwin]

Simple rule: LOG shooting ----> External recorder (ProRes and higher)

[@NotAnotherRentalCo]

Not always!

[@maxmedia4661]

subbed! great info! So that was a lot of info for a new s1 simply minded user like myself. I have the ninja v. what are the best full frame modes to shoot in to avoid the noise on the ninja v?

[@NotAnotherRentalCo]

The 422 10 bit is definitely the best mode to set the Panasonic S1 in to get the best performance!

[@ralphgeronilla]

I have the S1 and ninja V and I wouldn’t necessarily say that full frame is always better. That results in pixel binning. Sometimes you want the crop of the sensor to get the sharpest part of a lens. Also, was wondering what kind of HDMI cable you use? Because you can only use certain cables like Atomos HDMI rated for 4k 60p.

[@NotAnotherRentalCo]

Well if you're using lenses that aren't sharp across the board that's probably true; the Canon 35mm II is known for being a pretty solid lens from the centre to the edges of the frame, so that's why I chose to do the tests with that lens. I bought a cable that said it was rated for 4k 60p, but to be fair it's not an Atomos branded one, or one that I checked with them about beforehand, so that might be worth looking into. Thanks for the comment!

[@hristokaragyozov6998]

It depends on the lens. I am using 24-70 2.8, and I believe that it should be stupid not to use all the lens quality.

[@RichAesthetic]

I feel like the footage I record externally is "softer" than what I get when I record internally. Internally on the r6 I record HEVC (h.265) HDR PQ. Externally I'm recording the same obviously but using ProRes 422 HQ instead of h.265. No idea why its softer though.

[@starky497]

I dont think you are correct when saying there is no 4k 25 p output over HDMI. The HDMI 420 8 bit and 422 10 bit menu selection is for 4k 50/60p only. Choosing 422 10 bit t 25p does permit simultaneous recording internally and externally in 422 10 bit 25p. Its just that when filming in 50/60p you have to choose a mode as the 422 10 bit option disables simultaneous internal recording. See this kzbin.info/www/bejne/mXjLgJ2Ca617q6M at 3 minutes 50.

[@AlexJenkins]

This has been super helpful. My thing is, when I switch my s5 to 420 8bit, I get false colors on the Ninja while in any 60FPS. It only goes back to true color when I switch to 30FPS and lower. Any idea why?

[@maconins123]

Sorry but I have had my s1 and the ninja for only 6 weeks. What is the ninja recording if not also 25p 10bit 422 when in this mode?

[@CodaSessions]

Hey, great video! I've noticed the contrast difference when comparing Panasonic units when recording in V Log on my S5 (And V Log L on my GH4) externally to Atomos units; i believe this is due to how your NLE handles video levels and range conversions - a typical instance was when recording to Prores 422 LT on either my Ninja Flame or Ninja V, Final Cut Pro assumed the video footage in legal range, yet being recorded in full range without an easy way to apply the conversion. Since updating my Ninja V firmware, there has been a fix for this, and when working in Davinci Resolve, it's possible to select appropriate video levels for each clip.

[@mattprince2007]

Is there much lag on the external monitor? Just bought an s5 and was going to get an atomos but somebody told me that they lag like hell.

[@jasonlindquistmedia]

what a review. love it great job

[@NotAnotherRentalCo]

Glad you liked it!

[@BobbyWashingtonvlog]

Hello, How do I get the atomos to stop baking in color into my video. I selected Native VLOG but it records in color.

[@NotAnotherRentalCo]

Have you made sure that the settings in HDMI out are not sending a LUT through to the recorder?

[@BobbyWashingtonvlog]

Power Boyz yes those are off. In fact, I downloaded final cut and I unchecked the the camera LUT within the final cut software and bang! Hello Flat image. It’s definitely Apple... They need to share the info with Adobe do everyone can use PRORES RAW and not just final cut users. I made a video about this on my page showing apple support on a phone with me.

[@7thsensecreationsbymilind821]

Will shinobi computable with Panasonic S1?

[@ondrejjanoska660]

Are you going to be doing this video after the Firmware update?

[@MarcoViani]

nice review. but it seems that the ninja has some extraordinary contrast in good light condition. i really hesitate to buy it

[@maconins123]

Does that mean that I can not record 422 10bit in 25 to the ninja???

[@sosiehtsaus5357]

Can someone help? I have a skin tone issues with my Panasonic S1. While shooting V-Log in 50p over HDMI to either Atomos Ninja V or Atomos Shogun Inferno I'll get blotchy skin tones with magenta blotch artifacts. Also while recording internally on SD Card with 50p | 200M | LongGoP. 50p is unusable as of now. For all who ask themselves, yes, I knows how to expose v log correctly. It's really sad as the 4k 25p looks gorgeous. I'm on firmware 2.1

[@genesisjlopez2854]

I have this issue in my S1H. I would love to know how to fix it.

[@BoyBlessing]

So the 4:2:2 10-bit external crops to S35? Confused why you compared the full frame internal to S35 external in the low light test?

[@NotAnotherRentalCo]

The 'output' camera options are both S35 crop. But you could just set the camera to full frame in your menu settings and do a straight record of the output. But you have no data from camera as to whether this is 10 bit 422 or 8 bit 420. It's a good point though; I will try and get in touch with Panasonic to confirm.

[@NowyKurs]

You cant record 24/25 fps on Ninja with S1? Only 50/60 fps?

[@NotAnotherRentalCo]

I think technically you can - but they don't want that to be too obvious because it takes away a unique feature of the S1H.

[@silklion7375]

So you cant record 24p/25p/30p or 1080p externally???

[@NotAnotherRentalCo]

In theory you can if you just set the camera to this... But it's unclear what settings it'll record in because the camera's output settings don't list those options. It's very bizarre!

[@Dramask]

Hello, lumix S1 can't control ninja v recording. How did you solve it?

[@EduardoBerth]

You won´t as there in no Timecode control being sent. You´ll have to wait for the firmware update

[@MesaVerdeProductions]

I recently bought this one and I have one question...does it offer true 24P? UHD?

[@MesaVerdeProductions]

My key is yet to arrive hence the question :)

[@NotAnotherRentalCo]

The camera? Yes - full 4K!

[@007silverwings]

Thanks for the comparison video and sharing your thoughts. Have you tried the new S1 V2.0 firmware, lots more outputs available now?

[@zoltanelias2]

I did a test in my studio.The GH5 and Atomos Ninja V. In this case, the Internal 4K 50Fps 8bit was better than the 10bit on the Atomos. Just like in the video, the image was more grainy through Atomos and the extremes were also better handled by the internal 8bit, which I really wonder about.