Internalised Biphobia (And What Helped Me Get Over It)

[@freamoonlight9395]

Oh yeah my biggest struggle as bisexual was getting over the need to prove that I am bi. I would look at random girls and try to convince myself, 'yeah I could be attracted to her', and it was so bad for me. But slowly I accepted that even if I never ever date a woman, I am still bi, because I feel in my heart it's right. Also TMA is such a wonderful piece of media, I can't even begin to explain!

[@Oakwyrm]

God that's just... such a toxic mindset to be trapped in, ain't it? Sexuality imposer syndrome or something. I'm glad to hear you found your say out of it. And yeah it honestly is.

[@veyarain82]

Yikes. Currently IDing as pan, and I definitely feel that a little too close for comfort. I think it was She-ra that abruptly shoved the concept that I might not be straight at my nose around 7th grade, and it was a long road to even being 80-85% settled on pan like I am now. It’s not helped by the fact that I haven’t ever had a proper sense of attraction to someone like that yet, though I am very aware that I am not ace or aro. I guess I still have a bit of that “but I have to be concretely sure and prove it” mindset going on, and uh, not loving that. I’m sure over time, I’ll settle more firmly on whatever feels right. Being so genuinely happy at my stealth pan pride pin on my bag this long after getting it, though, is probably a strong indicator. I’ll get there. I know I’m very late, but I really appreciated seeing this comment, and your response Oakwyrm.

[@freamoonlight9395]

@@veyarain82 Yeah, it's definatly a process. All my power to you, I know you'll get there! You got this!

[@KiraNightshade]

I feel like I had the opposite problem at first when I was so in denial about being bi even as I developed crush feelings on girls whose personalities and/or looks drew me in. But now I feel it's fully being put to the test since my partner came out to me as trans. My spouse has their first appointment with Planned Parenthood tomorrow and I'm excited and also have no idea what to expect. I think I'm demi? I feel like I'm always back and forth because my libido comes and goes and it's like what's the difference between being excited by the idea of something and being sexually attracted to someone? My partner might be on the aromantic spectrum apparently. It's a lot to process. Also, guess I'm checking out this podcast now. I thought it was a show and I don't use many streaming services or make time to watch stuff. But I love listening to stuff while cooking and driving and doing busy work.

[@SingingSealRiana]

Yeah, needing to prove stuff, of feeling like it sucks. I speak of myself as somewhere on the spectrum for I am unsure. I think I am pandemiromantic, the demi part is sure everything else is a mess. I definatly have a type when it comes to men and women, which made me laugh at several occasions for the girlfriend of my male crush I never was jalouse of, was my type . . . or both male crushes shared a humerous amount of "shallow" details, though they had drasticly different personalities. I crush faster on women, probably for I am more comfortable with them, but it never developed jet into being actualy in love enough to get heartbroken, whatever it is due to me not having been around them enough to develope that depth of feeling, like I had been with both guys, of if it is simply different . . . the pan part feels very presumptious, in my mind, gender does not matter and atheticly I find androgynity and gendernonconformaty very pleasing, I do not think I would care is someone is trans, nonbinary, agender or any other shade of colorful but for they are way less ancountered and I am not even sure with the women and how one thinks and what your subconious decides to crush on often do not align . . . I am very unsure. Not that it matters, as so fare, even with the worst of crushes, I never wanted to do anything about it, even if I could have had both guys if I had wanted, so does it matter who I like in the fist place?

[@TalysAlankil]

re: your intro, ace people were part of the bi community before the ace label was coined, so you're definitely not alone in thinking in these terms.

[@linneathesystemsdruid308]

And to this day, the ace and bi communities tend to stand up for eachother and be allies and stuff.

[@calliemyersbuchanan6458]

I'm bisexual and have the opposite problem with my relationship to the quote "not queer enough for the queers and not straight enough for the straights." I'm a bisexual ciswoman married to a straight cisman. My own internalized biphobia comes from being not queer enough for the queers but totally straight enough for the straights to the point that socially and functionally i might as well just be straight. I am out to everyone i'm close to and most of them totally support me including my husband. But my dad is very conservative and rejects/denies my bisexuality and, because of my marriage, he can and does VERY easily assume to himself and others that I am his perfect little straight angel in a godly marriage. While I know internally that i am still extremely sexually attracted to other genders, I find myself questioning what role that needs to play in my outward life anymore? I refuse to erase that part of me but I feel like the more i try to fly that flag with pride, the louder i am screaming to my husband and the world that I still have a desire to be with other genders and therefore he must only be satisfying part of me. Basically people of single gendered sexualities need not worry about telling the world they love (insert that gender here) because it's like saying "I want one kind of person and I have a person that is exactly that!" But for me, i feel that it sounds weird, and comes across as ungrateful and dismissive, to keep projecting out to the world that I want multiple kinds of people, when I have a person that is only one of those things. Like proud bisexuality is acceptable during dating mode while seeking and being available for each type of partner, but once you commit to a monogamous relationship (especially if it's in the form of marriage) bisexuality no longer makes sense to proclaim, unless the relationship ends and you are once again in the market, so to speak. As a defense mechanism, I used to just say that "Well I used to be bisexual, but i'm now (his name)-sexual" in some strange effort to reassure my husband that he was all I wanted/needed and draw as much focus as i could away from my attraction to other genders to imply a lack of dissatisfaction with or threat to our monogomy. Not reading into it at all, he thought it was a super adorable thing to say and adopted it when talking to others about me. In reclaiming my identity, I've since dropped it and went back to referring to myself as bisexual again. He seems to have followed suit and hasn't brought up the old phrase again to me or others that i'm aware of so at least there's that. But I still find myself having to fly that flag quietly in more subtle ways like having the bisexual color gradient on a few of my accessories. I would love to attend pride events and such but I don't because in queer spaces I can't help but feel more like an "ally" than actually a part of the community; the one that literally includes me and my sexuality in its titular acronym! .....This sucks.

[@daychild_]

I TOTALLY FEEL YOU ON THE “not gay enough” thing as a pansexual who developed a preference for women just so i wouldn’t seem “too straight” 😭😭😭

[@ZeroOhClock]

Oh gosh Same ...but different I suppose. Mine was internalised aphobia. Specifically only to myself to. Through TMA I realised that Ace people deserve to be loved even if they have boundaries when it comes to sex! It's shocking how deeply I believed I was inherrently unlovable and not worth the "sacrifice". I truely believed that if I got into a relationship I'd have to be absolutely okay with literally everything. That led to me convincing myself that I didn't actually want to be in a relationship while also fully acknowledging I was very bi. Was an absolute wreck for a week straight after reading my first Jon/Martin fanfic and Martin was... Okay?? Not forcing Jon? Respecting boundries? It's truely horrifying how low I allowed the bar to get when I wasn't looking. I'm so happy I'm basically a hermit. I can't imagine what would have happened if I had gotten into a relationship in that state. If I hadn't gotten hooked on this podcast.

[@Oakwyrm]

It's honestly really amazing how many people seem to have similar stories in regards to how TMA touched their lives. Heartwarming while being sad at the same time because it reflects how far we, as a society, still have to go. I'm glad to hear you're in a better place now and wish you all the luck in any future relationships you may have.

[@MakeItPossible2011]

When I saw the thumbnail, like in the next second my mind was like "Jon?👀👀👀" I love TMA so much and there are many good things about it, but I will forever be grateful for the representation that it provided me through Jon and Martin for so, so many reasons, they both mean so much to me and yeah, Jonny Sims really did that, didn't he

[@Oakwyrm]

He sure did, huh? But yeah no seriously TMA is such a wonderful piece of media and I am beyond grateful to Jonny Sims and the entire RQ crew.

[@MakeItPossible2011]

@@Oakwyrm oh definitely. RQ is such a great company in general, you can really see their values reflected in their work and also in the community. I talked to and found so many lovely people and creators because of their podcasts (including you 👀)

[@drownedtrashrat3501]

Gdhdfbjssk the eyes after jon can be interpreted in many ways

[@drownedtrashrat3501]

Saame tho I'd never seen ace representation before (I'm aroace)? Neither had I seen an mlm being the main relationship in a story without it being 'GAY!!!! GAY!!!! THIS IS A GAY STORY!!!!! GAY PEOPLE!!!!' And so it was very nice to see queer people just exist and for it to like ...? Treated normally ?? Like the story wasn't about them being queer, they just were. I guess all in all tma's amazing with representation and i wouldnt trade it for anything. (lol its late for me I hope that was coherent)

[@SingingSealRiana]

I was so confused when you said, you came out as bi for being equaly attracted to both genders, when your avatar is wearing aro ace rings . . . then you explained it and it made a lot of sense ^^. My parents quite early figured, that it would not be as simple with me as finding a guy I liked, they very early considered I might be gay or bi and where very supportiv there. . . that I am ace blindsided them badly and they needed a lot of time to get over it though

[@miratarnish6316]

Isn't Jon such a vibe though!? He was one of the unexpected solidifying factors that made me realise I was Bi/ace too. I had his orientation spoiled for me in a comment thread when I was only a third of the way through the series, but I did pick up on various relatable ace behaviours over the course of it.

[@Oakwyrm]

God he is, isn't he? I had it spoiled before I even started the series, which of course made me pick up on a ton of subtle moments throughout.

[@SingingSealRiana]

He is so damned relatable, also with his hermione granger syndrom and social awkwardness, sometimes I celebrate it, then again it scares me as hell just how much I can relate to him.

[@BestFriendsWhoLiveTogether]

I remember coming out to my friends as lesbian. It was at school and we were sitting on a wall and their reaction was simply ‘cool.’

[@Catrador4ble]

podcast of i was already identifying as bi but jon ace canon made me come to terms with my asexuality :). thank you jarchivist for everything

[@Catrador4ble]

also people frequently headcannon him as a cane user, autistic and agender and it makes me, a biace autistic agender cane user so happy. shoutout to jon for being the character ever

[@beardlessdragon]

So, before clicking on this vid, I had just been considering picking up Magnus Archives again. When the audio from Magnus Archives' intro suddenly cut in, I genuinely got spooked and checked my tabs, trying to figure it out if it was open somewhere else but also knowing I hadn't actually pulled it up anywhere. Beautiful spooky moment haha

[@lahlybird895]

I think every single ace went through the bi phase Either in their own minds or other people outside saying it had to be true because no one knew about the other concept that existed and then they all just did a happy dance and they discovered it I kind of have missed that stage in my own development but it kind of happened sort of

[@drownedtrashrat3501]

I settled into ace rather easily but I totally thought I was omniromantic because I thought "oh yeah, I could probably date someone. Of any gender. I'd like physical intimacy. I'd like emotional intimacy. With anyone, tbh. That's equivalent to wanting romance, right ?" And then I got into a dumb lil fling thing cause I was too socially awkward and too much of a people pleaser to not follow their lead when they started dropping hints and acting romantically, and even after we split up that set me back in accepting my aro-ness for _quite_ a bit

[@lahlybird895]

@@drownedtrashrat3501 you could be cupioromantic like me

[@drownedtrashrat3501]

@@lahlybird895 yeahh lol I really could be but idk if what I'm craving is is inherently romantic or if I just crave to be known ? Idk if that made sense lol

[@lahlybird895]

@@drownedtrashrat3501 well I only brought it up because that's the label I identify most with and I feel pretty much the same way you are describing

[@drownedtrashrat3501]

@@lahlybird895 yeah gdhdjs I've been wondering if that label fits me for a while lol, I'll figure it out one day

[@GhostKitten69]

"I don't blame you and I'm fine..???" cut to Mirabel singing the intro to Waiting on a Miracle

[@viveleshistoires4874]

Omg YES the whole « I don’t know if I’m bi or ace because I seem to be equally attracted to either gender » really _is_ a struggle… I’m still not sure which one I am, by the way! x)

[@linneathesystemsdruid308]

I’m still working through my internalized biphobia. I’ll get there one day tho

[@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023]

Rooting for you! * bi/omni/pan solidarity fist bump * from Finland

[@snowange.l]

Shout out to the bi ➡️ pan ➡️ ace pipeline, and the absolute relief I felt at the end of it

[@drownedtrashrat3501]

8:48 IT'S BEEN SO LONG SINCE I'VE HEARD THE TMA INTRO BDHDJSKSI

[@anitanielsen1061]

I LOVE the mixture of bi and ace here. And the beard and dress and GNC-ness of it all!

[@neptunes-nebula6233]

It's weird how universal of an ace experience thinking you're pan or bi before you realize you're ace is I knew I wasn't cishet for a while, and I went as bi for a bit before I knew what ace was. even a while after I knew what it was i just said queer or questioning, the fact that I'm ace and trans just kinda hit me one day about a year ago

[@mushroomlord1372]

as someone who is bi, non-binary, and polyamorous(i’m only out as polyamorous to my friends) i’ve struggled so much with internalized queerphobia for the past few years and still do. i have felt like and still do feel a little bit that most people i’m out to other than my friends don’t believe me, think that I’m being ridicules, think that i’m being influenced by my friends who are “pressuring me” into being someone I’m not when it’s the opposite their actually the ones that are telling me that it’s ok to be the person i am.

[@anitanielsen1061]

I LOVE your speedpaints!

[@anitanielsen1061]

Ooooh, the yellow looks like the nonbinary colors👀🎼Loove it!🎼

[@mermaid960]

Getting past internalized biphobia (as well as acephobia and enbyphobia -_-) is definitely a struggle. I felt like I was just seeking attention and 'wrong' about my sexuality. I felt like I had to 'prove' it by having a big crush on someone of the same gender. I'm now proudly biromantic and honestly so proud of who I am. It's really nice to hear other people's stories and experiences with bisexuality. I also came out to my mom in the car lol

[@snapbaxtoytalk]

I love how open and honest you are about your struggles, issues, challenges etc in your videos. I love how you've worked to understand and manage many things and the great emotional intelligence and acceptance you display. There's such an engaging and enchanting quality to you that really makes your videos and opinions a joy to experience

[@kevinwingate8575]

Thanks for sharing your story. Thanks for being YOU! 👍🏾

[@anymeaddict]

First off, I was very confused as to why my podcast had randomly started itself in the middle of watching this video. Because I am also Ace (though I'm dating a woman) and love that podcast and Jon. I enjoyed your video and your channel in general. Please keep making video! I am AceAro and had internallized arophobis for a while. (And yes. Ik I said I'm dating a woman. we are queerplatonic life partners. But we enjoy going on dates and use the term dating.) So I understand. Idk when or how I got over it. But I remember sobbing while watching vampire diaries because I could never have someone love me that much cuz it would make me selfish cuz I couldn't love them back. But then I was over it two years later. Idk. I have also had someone semipressure me into coming out to someone. It was my girlfriend about telling my parents we were dating. She stated when we started dating that I had to tell me parents were were dating before we had our year aniversery. Other wise we would just go back to friends and not get married. We would still be QPLP. I told them a week before the deadline. I knew me dad would be chill and my mom would be fine eventually. (I was rght. Dad was completely fine. My mom was like "you guys aren't dating you are just bff who plan to live together" I can out as Ace dating a woman. Not Aro in a QPR. Figure it was be too confusing. It confused her anyway. After a year she admitted we were dating.) My Gf still feels bad about kinda forcing me. But I forfage her cuz I did have to come out to them. I knew I was aroace. I had figured that all out years before. I wasn't going to stop being in a relationship with her. And I wanted people to respect our relationship. And I may have been brained washed into wanting a wedding but I will have that wedding! So yeah... Idk. Sorry I felt commpeled to share???

[@SingingSealRiana]

Thanks a lot for sharing and yes, TMA is increadably awesome when it comes to representation and psychology. Jon is such a mess, but he is also very relatable. There is no fetishsing of romatisising of being queer, the characters are all raw and flawed and fuck up, but they are also heartwarming and sneekely educational and the fact that this epidom of acceptence for lgbtq, neurodiversety and all is so heaverly based on lovecraft, on of the most notoriously racist and everything phobic person who ever existed is amusing me to no end

[@Miraihi]

"Not gay enough for the gays, not straight enough for the straights". Damn, so relatable.

[@SingingSealRiana]

I love how you say pan is close to asexuality, and in a way you are right, though it is basicly the polar opposite ^^ Sexuality and all that stuff is so terribly complex . . .

[@madamgalen225]

I’ve heard so many good things about the magnus archives and I would definitely listen to it if I could handle horror at all- Also I adore how you draw fabric like all the folds and stuff

[@Oakwyrm]

It's a really good podcast but also definitely not for everyone, yeah. And thank you ^^ The secret is references. Lots and lots of references.

[@therainbowtea18]

Oh god how did this video make me realize I myself have some internalized biphobia and why does this video speak so much to me??? Amazing video by the way and love the art!

[@clara_corvus]

I guess I gotta finish listening to the Magnus Archives.

[@timberprospects]

hey! i wanna recommend a podcast called "hello from the hallowoods", it's spectacularly queer and contains ace (not sure about aro though? i'm not too far through it) characters :)

[@jackofalltradesE-IC]

I'm not bisexual (though I did think I was before realising I'm omnisexual) and I'm not asexual, but I am bigender and aromantic, both of which I have been struggling to come to terms with ever since realizing. I know for certain that I am a bigender, aromantic, omnisexual, there's nothing I can do or say that will change this or make it any less true and I know that. Sometimes though, I'm afraid that I'm either wrong or I'm faking. When it comes to being bigender, I present as female _far_ more often than I present as male though I consider myself to identify as both equally. I have a really hard time getting myself ready for the day due to mental issues (potentially depression though I'm not exactly certain) and I find it a lot easier to simply throw on the feminine clothing and let everyone believe I'm a girl, even on my boy days because I just don't have the energy to dig through my drawer to find one of my (fairly recently acquired) chest binders. When I'm having a boy day but I'm not _presenting_ as male I feel really guilty about considering to correct people who refer to me by female pronouns and sometimes even try to convince myself "no, you are not a boy today, if you were you'd be wearing your chest binder" because it feels like I'm lying to people about my gender for that day. When it comes to being aromantic I feel off about it because I still experience sexual attraction, a _lot_ in fact, and some days I just can't get the little voice in my head saying I'm just a worthless sl*t who only claims to be aromantic so I can have the sex without the commitment, to shut up (I've actually gotten in the habit of mentally screaming "shut the fuck up" over the intrusive and sometimes bigoted thoughts my brain insists on having). I also can't get the voices saying "you're just afraid of commitment" and "your past relationships failed because you didn't put in enough effort" out of my head either. I've recently been making some progress with getting rid of these unwanted thoughts and feelings but it still isn't much, and the little progress that has been made is in accepting that my clothes, while still very important to me in expressing my gender, do not define my gender (though I only just barely accepted today that I can throw on a bra instead of find then struggle to put on my chest binder on a boy day when I'm too tired/in a rush to put it on and still identify as male, and I still need to learn that it's okay to tell people I'm a boy on days like this, even with my non-accepting father within earshot).

[@AirFlow12345]

Identity can be hard to navigate with sometimes... I'm glad you managed to understand yours because damn. It's a hassle and it can take time to explore. By the way, I also want to thank you because this video also made me realize I am certainly biromantic myself since I sometimes felt an attraction to people of my own sex. I heard the name before but it only made perfect sense to me as I saw the whole definition today ! I knew there was something bi about me (more than just being androgynous) but I never knew exactly what because I don't have that sexual attraction, not even with the opposite sex. And it always made me feel very strange so in my mind I identified as "queer"... I'm probably somewhat demiromantic - even though my disabilities/disfunctionnal guts still make me question the "demi" part. Either way, realizing this also explain a lot of things about myself, like... the fact I feel a sort of euphoria when I think of my partner (who is bi and enjoy expressing androgyny too) this makes so much more sense now... So thank you for sharing your experience with that ! I'm also glad it wasn't too awful and I completely understand why you want to keep it all more "private" until you figured it out entirely too... These things can be so complex when we're young or still exploring/figuring out ourselves... So yeah, the more we can avoid biphobia, the better...

[@jadelinny]

Wow, I'm ace, nonbinary, and biromantic too! (Figured them out in that order) But I didn't start realizing it until I was 33 and had been married for eleven years! (Fundamentalism will do that to a person). My spouse also realized that he's bigender in that same period--it's sure been an interesting year and a half! I LOVE this picture, by the way. I vibe with your aesthetic, generally.

[@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023]

As you like his art / esthetic -- did you know he has a Redbubble store? The link is in the list under the channel description: there are T-shirts, mugs, stickers, throw blankets, baby clothes etc. and of course paper and canvas prints, with various examples of his art on them. I had been a Redbubble customer since 2017 when I first purchased Oakwyrm's designs in 2019. Thus far the quality has been good, except for two travel mugs that my daughter bought. They retained a chemical smell after multiple washes, so we never dared to use them.

[@Twat_Dirt]

I am too except for nonbinary

[@iamaylacat3935]

This is actually something I find really interesting - my father (a former psychologist) is of the firm belief that labels are not the best thing, especially for teenagers. The thing that really caught my attention is you mentioned having experienced the *exact* thing that he uses to explain this - teenagers pick a label, even if it doesn't apply to them, try their best to fit into the label, and then things fall apart when they experience something that doesn't align with the label they chose (in your case, it was labelling yourself as gay and then that oh-no moment when you developed a crush for someone using she/her pronouns).

[@maxinea.sakaki4151]

Ye is really not good, when I did it with my mum and I told her to not tell that she asked me "what do you want me to do? to lie to your dad?" I'm not gonna comment how it ended but you pplc an already guess.

[@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023]

Hey didn't you say that you do not want ads mid-video? I just got two at 8:50. Is the placement of ads something you have to set individually for each video?

[@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023]

This time one ad, same timestamp.

[@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023]

The ad break is still there. How can I make my ADHD brain remember long enough to send you a message??

[@bdariamihaela]

A little help. What is the difference between bisexual and pansexual?

[@SingingSealRiana]

bi is attraction towords both sexes/genders while pan is attraction regardless of gender so not limited to male and or female but also embracing every colorful shade inbetween and outside of them

[@bdariamihaela]

@@SingingSealRiana they seem very similar

[@SingingSealRiana]

@@bdariamihaela kinda, but also not, thats like saying being gay and being bi are similar, for both mean that a guy likes another guy ignoring that one means he is equaly attracted to women. one is relient on gender/sex, guys are liked for being male, women for being feminine, the other is without any care for gender and sex

[@GoryGlory]

I could be a bit wrong depending on the definition, but as I see it bisexual people are attracted to either gender, while pansexual people are attracted to people based on their personality regardless of gender.

[@bdariamihaela]

@@GoryGlory I got it, the comment is old

[@777Rowen]

This is a really interesting discussion! Thank you for sharing this with us! 🖤🤍💜