Interview With Ex-JW Elder

(Also check out my music video: "Cost of Doin' Business" • FIFTH - Cost of Doin' ... )
Interview with MIchael, a former JW Elder and aspiring Circuit Overseer. He explains his background with the organization and the events that led to his departure.

[@prodigalAli]

The automatic response of a JW is "just wait on Jehovah." Maybe *Jehovah is waiting on us* ....to actually stand up for integrity, protection of children, placing life above symbols, and family and love above man-made rules.

[@carlsands4060]

Very good point.

[@markskyscraper8092]

But he has to wait a little longer apparently. The GB Pied Piper Cowboys need to keep herding the JW Cows (of Zechariah 11) BEFORE this kind of "sighing and groaning" causes a full blown JW Herd Stampede Exodus; In the meantime, back at Rancho JWOrg Apostasy, here is my take as an opinion which event would take a few years (may be to arrive) but definitely after WT Downfall ignition to run the WTBTS global-takeover course: They need to keep the JW Lemmings moving forward to the "Bunkers" in the GB Pied Piper "Symphony of Destruction" by some more "miracles" and "new light" fake prophecy to: 1. Amp up their fake credibility; 2. Create a strong delusional "prophecy is fulfilling" pretext for inviting in their "coalition of nations" "Gog" destroyers to pillage the 30 billion minimum and make it look like "prophecy of the end of the world is fulfilling brothers!" That way their is no JW based resistance or inkling that it is a controlled cessation and pillage of the WTBTS undercover of a fake "the end" prophecy". (Exactly like at 2Thess2:1-2, for example) 3. Then have JWs break out their final Watchtowers with that "hard-hitting judgment message" that "the end is here" which becomes a global laughing stock as it well, does not simply end except for the JW ministry and that by their own mouth in insane sanctions, "ministry is cancelled" objective, and this handy "self fulfilling prophecy" as JWs actually have self-invented the very means of their ministerial "the end", not anything actually valid in the world system. 4. Then, if all goes well in the global-JW-roundup, get JWs to "go to the Bunkers" as "crazy as it may sound" (WT11/13) and also throw in JW personal assets as JWs abandon their homes to the state and head off to the insane asylum during what will just be a temporary financial crash, imo, to aid part of their "the end of the world" delusional thinking. The world just goes through any global cycle, even a limited nuclear war, as it has before into a peaceful resolution but then an international forum presentation as in all the other world wars and cold war for United Nations final evolution into an actual world government, imo. In the process JWs will go down as criminal apostates, perjurers, child abusers and thieves. And all of it as self-injected in a spiritual OD by the use of their own FAKE PROPHECY which now outlines exactly how the JW Org will be ended. But it is not prophecy it is a GB "self fulfilling prophecy" as the means to carry it all out with ZERO JW resistance for to them it will be "the end of the world" why stop it? It will be a megascore for the banks and investment mechanisms because the whole org and its extra-ministerial real-estate "tycoonism" and hedges is in the 30 - 50 billion dollar range as also not disclosed to JWs but it is EASILY worth more than LDS Mormon empire, EASILY, which Ka-chings in at around 30 billion. "Martial internment", prison and insane asylum JW intakes, if it can get that far, would toss in another 20-50 million, ball park, if they can get every JW to obey the Pied Piper GB "as unsound as the directives may appear from a human standpoint", and all go to the JW Bunker Prison Intake System. Actually, it is pretty easy to reverse engineer what the thief GB is up to. And the real score is worth the effort. And JW criminal works and apostasy means it can be doable legally with all "powers that be" especially anything "God related". Apostate JW Org is what is doomed, not the world. But, there is no easy way for JWs to "mock God" and yet escape this unscathed, no way. The GB is JW Doomsday. That 1976 total experiment in ministerial so-called management has utterly failed, the destruction of the JW Org will seal the deal. (Isa28:21) BTW, save those last Watchtower "End of the World" issues, they will be classic collector's items for the JWax museum. But, something has to emerge from it all. After 2000 years of this kind of diversion no way is it all going down in the JW Casket. Everyone else tried this, they all failed. So will apostate JW Org.

[@cindyarnold7322]

Alexandra B very good observation. Sending you a big hug!

[@claudetteearle3052]

Alexandra B exactly. God gave us free will into which He doesn't interfere, so, yes, God waits on us to right wrongs because He knows we have whatever it takes to accomplish these challenges.....He gave us the power to fix, do and overcome.

[@amazingueone3105]

VERY

[@idkstilldontknow1788]

Your born into a family, you think they will be there for you forever. One day you wake up and no ones there. Such a empty feeling inside. There are no words to express the pain. What causes a person to become unlovable? I have asked myself these questions over and over again, what could I have done differently to keep my family around, all I ever wanted was to feel what unconditional love felt like. Well the sad truth is, there’s nothing I can do to keep people in my life, I can’t make you love me if you don’t. I have let this heart ache control me for long enough. Right now I’m cutting all ties with anyone toxic! I refuse to allow heartless people own one more second of my happiness. My focus is mine and my sons happiness and health. That’s what you do when you love someone, you put them first! 100%

[@cindyarnold7322]

Mamma Bear you said you refuse to let this pain control you, glad to hear this! Do not allow others to control your emotions. You deserve to be happy.

[@jacquelynn2051]

I can't make you love me....if you don't.. 🎶 sung by Bonnie Raitt?...anywho... So true! Good for you. I've done the same. The shameful trippy moment of truth part is as the only nurse and the youngest in my immediate JW family...those that shunned me and excluded me from family functions are AGING because this generation DID pass away and NO Harmageddon. Now they want to appease me. For caregivers sake. I just got 'free'. My two children are independent young adults. I'm not even trying to be mean. I'm just not gonna bend over backwards anymore for people that only saw me useful as an ex JW when they got SICK. F 'em. I'm gonna enjoy my life.

[@stacyyoust]

​@@jacquelynn2051I didn't see your comment lol😅

[@dr.richmann4477]

Great interview Fifth. I'm just about at the half way mark now and wow, he had a problem with addiction due to pain medication prescribed for his back surgery and the Elders threw him under the bus....disfellowshipped him....because its a 'loving arrangement from Jehovah'. Its a wicked organization!!!

[@lauriecarr4941]

The toxic shame comment is spot on. Yes the feelings of never being good enough. I thank Jehovah every day for delivering me from the organization. Now I experience grace and joy and the fullness of the Holy Spirit. There is now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus.

[@DR_Neal_Rigger]

Thank you Michael.. Some people you can just tell are good people.. you are definitely one of those rare individuals.. Onward, and upward..

[@naytchh7]

Already 105 Likes, and to the single Dislike (JW) I would say: Thanks for watching. We will all be here for you when you wake up!

[@KimF1]

Now it's up to 24 dislikes from brainwashed robots and their Watchtower apologists...

[@katb945]

So pleased you have found happiness Michael and thank you for telling us your story, I am sure many can relate and will be helped by your generosity.

[@dawnross2514]

Terrific interview, thank you both. Michael made an excellent point about toxic shame; there's growing evidence that experiencing toxic shame as a child and young person (as many JW's do), can cause problems in normal development that can later lead to addiction problems. Michael's experience of being cast out at his most vulnerable is sadly not shocking to us ex JW's, and although traumatic for Michael, did lead to his waking up to the religion. I'm so glad that he has been able to rebuild his life in a positive way. In gratitude to you both for speaking up.

[@mq7678]

Wow! Thank you both for this interview. I walked out from my last meeting last September. Have so far successfully faded.. we’ll see how that will continue. Building a new social circle.. just like you both are saying. It is getting better, but being as I was also so much involved in this organization, ...pioneering, Bethels, unassigned ter.. interpreting talks... foreign language congr,,, .finding our this is another scam....went thru a practically nervous breakdown.. with help from outside org...hospital, therapists.. exjws..family..who are non witnesses ..I feel slowly back on my feet..and now that I have no stupid men made rules to live by.. I am enjoying the feeling of being part of a society of humankind... life is looking better..and things are slowly falling into places, I’m sorry.. didn’t mean to rumble about me.. but what I wanted to say is... thank you for the support you Fifth and all your guests are giving.

[@lindalawton5399]

Out 20 years, awake only 2, but it still angers and saddens me to see how the wt steals so many other's lives. I just sent this to a fading member of of family - knowing he will listen. Thank you both!

[@kittylove2975]

Thank you Fifth for the interviews that you conduct. I always look forward to watching your channel‼️ Thank you Michael for sharing your story‼️

[@pixels2u]

Yay, good for you for escaping and rebuilding your life! I moved cross-country to Austin after I escaped 20 yrs ago. It's a super great city to heal in. Thx for your story and best of luck to you and yours. Congratulations. Another great video, Fifth. Thank you!

[@dantoinettetaylor1663]

Thank you for this interesting interview Fifth. Very probing and thorough. It was good that your interviewee found some support outside of the organisation during his time of need

[@carolynwade5754]

I can relate because in my early twenty I became one of JW. By me not having grown up in it . I didn't have the same obligation and was not indebted to the degree as someone who grew up in it. I later had children and just like him they told me it wasn't a good time to have children, because of the last days 1975. They use the scripture to support, woe to the pregnant woman. I didn't see the fit to my life. I tried to be married and bring my children up in the JW. I saw the hypocrisy , gave my children a chance to have somewhat of a normal life. I got out later in life I return, boy when I return a lot doctrine had change. They wanted to have a Bible Study with me, I wonder why, well it was because they had change there doctrine. I thought they was interested in me, but they want me to learn the new doctrine. I tried to stay, now Iam out again because my light has really became Brighter in there words. Never to return, I really Enjoy listen to you ExJW Fifth, it is very beneficial for us ExJW very encouraging. Thanks wish we all could meet to assemble together.

[@jiggyone868]

Whatever you do, never return to that cult. Find urself a support group, and live the life you've got.

[@cynthiacrawford1]

This is my favorite video!!!!! And to meet him was amazing and he has a very supportive beautiful wife!

[@charmainemarino4151]

Wonderful interview! YESSSS you will keep getting BETTER and BETTER Michael. I am only one year ahead of you as far as coming awake... I still struggle with things as you described (toxic shame etc) but LIFE IS INDEED BEAUTIFUL! Great advice to people at the end of the interview too, thank you!!!

[@jodigirl6610]

Excellent interview, per normal. When I was still in one of my "favorite" CO was from Texas. I liked him and his wife because they had worked secularly before becoming CO so they understood the struggles there. I can't even remember their names now. It feels pretty pathetic now. Great interview, thank you for sharing your story!

[@ssdsd5394]

Jodi Girl in Texas we always got ones with hard heads and soft hands...😂😂😂

[@jodigirl6610]

Micheal Owings HAHAHA! Most of ours were too, and completely and utterly clueless about real life or raising a family.

[@jazzminejackson9181]

Thanks for sharing your story Michael. Another great interview.

[@denahunter9253]

I’m so sorry that you experienced this heartbreak, but very grateful that you are alive to tell your story. Thank you!

[@greatdayn4651]

There are many aspects of your videos that I appreciate, but allow me to share three of them. #1: The questions you ask your guests are well thought out and move the story along its natural course. I can't determine if you have them prewritten or are just clever enough to come up with them on the fly, but they're always pertinent. Additionally, your questions are open-ended, not leading. #2: You keep the interview focused on the guest. Yes, you might share one of your experiences, but you don't make it all about you. In other words, you let them talk and tell their story (unlike many "professional" interviewers). #3: You're a good listener. You let them pause and think and follow-up/explain/modify, without jumping in too soon. Often times, interviewers are thinking about their next question rather than what the guest is saying and cut off their train of thought. I really enjoy your videos, sir. Thank you for them. (Ever thought about doing this for a living in the secular world? Just a thought.)

[@saraabraham5486]

This is also what the end of the World means, God is revealing the lies. This entire world has been build on lies and God is a God of truth. God is revealing the lies- Religious lies, Governmental lies, etc...........

[@Katcedes]

He is a wonderful interviewer.

[@outofthewoods9119]

Great Dayn - you have a great mind and are intelligent. Thanks.

[@rodywithers3536]

Thank you Fifth for a very informative interview of Michael and to Michael, thank you for agreeing to be interviewed. So many valid points covered and ones thst many listeners would identify with. I have heard of a number of JWs appearing before judicial committees with medically-prompted addictions to opiate medications who, instead of being helped to safely address the issue with the elders support and care, have been disfellowshipped - judged negatively. No surprise given the elders are not trained to deal with complex human problems. And yes, disfellowshipped JWshave found the help and unconditional support from "worldly" people. What an indictment on the organization and its claims that elders lovingly shepherd the flock! I am especially pleased to hear Michael that you were able to recover with good community support and are now on a happier and more fulfilling path in life.

[@astrids7707]

Thank you for sharing your story and it is good to know you reconnected with your true love. Listening to Michael, I was reminded of the movie "Pleasantville", everything was black and white but as soon as 2 new characters appear in the town and these 2 start to interact with the towns people, slowly everyone begins to see in color. That is how it was when I was a Witness, everything was black and white, but as soon as I interacted with other people (non-witnesses), my perspectives changed into something bright and hopeful, I no longer saw right and wrong (always judging) but "maybe, if"and others became options. Thank you having real and caring people.

[@Kwantifye]

Compelling interview - very much enjoyed it and am so glad he is out and happier now. I love what he said: “I’m just going to be me now.” A friend of mine who attends another church told me how they have classes for any of their congregants suffering from various addictions and they are treated with such love and compassion; she said unless the individual was a danger to others and scoffing at the assistance offered, they would never dream of banishing someone so vulnerable in need of help. I couldn’t help but compare.

[@krissykatportal]

I’m binge watching your videos. I love hearing how people wake up. I tried telling my mom about the Australian Royal Commission and she didn’t look shocked at all, just went into NPC mode and said, “Well the brothers are imperfect and they’ve made changes so we have to trust Jehovah’s arrangement.” I was speechless.

[@donnyetta]

NPC?

[@realnursenews]

Well done. Much appreciated

[@lindahopson7554]

Thank you for another excellent inspiring interview Fifth and Michael. I am so astounded at the number of those who are finally exiting. I left this organization many years ago back when there was no internet to connect with others. I believe that because we can connect nationwide and worldwide. It is such a good way to be able to help so many that are suffering and feel they are alone. I have relatives that are still in and "stuck". My mission is to help them wake up and get out. Thank you again and please keep up your good work.

[@havekin]

4th generation witness so that'll be 416 years as one generation is now 104 years according to the GB . V great interview as always, you're a natural , keep up the good work.

[@jiggyone868]

😂 lol. Good point. According to the ridiculous "this generation " explanation

[@lady6164]

This interview highlighted the effect of the organization on a person's ability to examine things from a logical perspective.

[@realnursenews]

Dont get discouraged. I am from Brooklyn studied with Bethelites. I think I know you. Please stay as strong as you can. I know this is tough but you show integrity and character in the manner in which you present the content. It is professional, not antagonizing but just allowing people to tell their story.

[@mikespilligan1490]

When he says born as a 4th generation witnesses surely he means 1 overlapping generation of 120 years? Great interview but we've come to expect that. Thanks so much, you are helping my wife wake up little by little. The reason she will, in any way, entertain your videos is the calm professional respectful format. Ranting hateful messages she would reject.

[@margaritaorozco4663]

Great interview fifth and thank you Michael for sharing .. I’m glad you’re doing good, ❤️❤️

[@Boarwater]

love your interviews

[@alanhope8971]

I knew Michael back in Dallas. Congrats on getting out. We did as well.

[@MichaelPaddock69]

Feel free to contact me. facebook.com/michael.paddock.98

[@judyo925]

I appreciate this interview, I've been fadding for about 6 months. If I ever get D F, it's going to break my heart. But I've never believed in shunning someone, I've always felt like that was cruel. The stress in my life has gone way down since I've been inactive. I feel like I'm getting me back. I probably shouldn't post this, but this interview touched me

[@janebennett4512]

Judy Oesterbo . Stay on the path you are on, it is so true that it gets better and better. The freedom to read, watch and listen to, and then to make up your own mind about everything, is truly wonderful. You are getting the real, authentic ‘you’ back. Allow her to grow and blossom in the sun, I have no doubt she is truly beautiful. Xx

[@judyo925]

Jane Bennett thankyou so much for your thoughtful words.

[@jiggyone868]

Life is hard, however it's better to live a real life than to leave a pipe dream from a cult. Enjoy ur christian freedom

[@cristinaagramonte482]

Fabulous interview, Fifth, as always! Really, you aught to do this professionally. You are a natural. Thank you both for this great interview.

[@micheleost]

What a heart wrenching story! My heart sunk when you said they disfellowshipped you! Holy cow! So glad you are still with us. Thank you for sharing!

[@saffronhammer7714]

Never good enough, never enough sacrifice, never worthy enough--guilt, fear, and unwarranted shame = the life of a JW, and it nearly killed me. Life is so much better on the outside, I am healing and finally finding peace and happiness, every day better than the day before.

[@saffronhammer7714]

I woke uo for much the same reason. Being "disciplined", having my "heart read" by men, to be judged unworthy of God's love--depsite the fact that I was deeply sorry and the "sin" was no longer being committed and I confessed. It sent me into a downward spiral and I was suicidal and hospitalized. This led me to the same thoughts as his.....I became inactive from sheer misery and although it took many years, I finally awoke to the reality of the WTS = a destructive cult.

[@mamibear33]

Abigail Parker feel you don't worry the almighty is still with you.

[@saffronhammer7714]

Thank you, Llesyri. I don't worry and am very happy.

[@willowb9882]

The elders are not trained nor licensed therapists/counselors to be able to deal with or handle these situations point blank sad that they turned this brother away that did so much for the congregation/org for so many years helping him in return was out of the question this wasn't a lite matter either this was truly serious but in turn they don't want you going to "worldly" trained therapists that could've actually helped him get back on track. Isn't it still considered blood guilt if they threw away a sheep that was actually calling out for help and they left him there for dead how is that loving?? Sidenote: MY EMPLOYER won't even give up on you if you go to them about this type of problem FIRST. They will try to get you help through therapy etc firing a person is their last resolve but they will at least give you the option of counseling and offer help where needed not just give up on you especially if you're an asset to the company and are TRYING to right the wrong...well great video/interview hope you the best in everything and don't give up! Glad you have a good support system!!

[@blondefro]

Willow B AMEN!! Janitors and window washers doling out life advice?? WTF??

[@celticfiddle7605]

Yes we had the sweetest circuit overseer and his wife living in a cottage at our kingdom hall. They were both getting old and she was not well. He started to drink in his little cottage and would sometimes be quite tipsy when one of us came knocking on his door to say hello. He would tear up when talking about his wife and about their happy days of courtship and early days of pioneering. It was obvious that he was scared and worried about his immediate future and his life decision to become a C.O. and give up children. Now the elders were concerned about his drinking. He could easily lose his cottage and have no where to go. As it turned out they sold the whole hall for almost 11 million dollars so everyone had to go. It is now a Mosque. No kidding.

[@theresaakins2317]

Good reply Willow and to add to your post, my former employer would even send employees with alcohol and drug problems to counseling! When I was at orientation at my last job, the very senior manager even admitted he had a drinking problem and our employer helped him.

[@gigi1332]

@@blondefro Lol So well put

[@gigi1332]

@@celticfiddle7605 Holy Shit That's terrible but I am sadly SOOOOOO not surprised. I am so grateful I am awake and out!!😡

[@18backroom10]

Thank you Fifth for the wonderful interview and Michael for sharing you r story. For someone like me who just learned TATT a year ago, still inside organization and must remain anonymous appreciate all of you guys who are making all of this efforts to help others like me. Much love and respect to all of you from Canada.

[@daisyjune5135]

What about the scripture that says to pray over sick people? Why don’t the elders do that? Cherry picking the scriptures again.

[@cindyarnold7322]

This story is so very moving. So this man found out that his guilt and shame came from the very ones who claimed to love him. Thank you for getting this story out there. So sorry for his loss of loved ones, but glad he disconnected from this toxic organization.

[@ellanes77]

I really like your interviewing skills. You allow your guests to get their point across without unnecessary interruptions

[@shanebehm8251]

I went through the same thing. I grew up having surgery after surgery and I became depend, addicted, to pain meds. I finally started out-patient rehab and went to the elders to let them know what was going on. I felt guilty. They disfellowshiped me for the reason "they didn't feel that I HATED the drug enough. Even though I was in rehab. I was honest and told them that I liked the feeling the drug gave me, but I knew I had to quit. For them to isolate me during the most vulnerable time of my life was so hateful. So, in short, I understand

[@rebekahwarriorspirit8110]

That is always the hard part when they force families to separate. You are not alone, that is why I like these videos helps others share their experiences.

[@adab9959]

The child sexual abuse issue was the breaking point for me as well. Glad you are out. Hopefully at some point your words will hit home with your family.

[@francesfree]

A lovely interview Fifth, thank you to Michael for sharing fascinating insights and wisdom on life in the organisation. Now you can relish your freedom of thought, as I've done for the past 30 years since leaving. I so appreciate the love, compassion and kindness that comes across in these interviews ... thank you.

[@LLPOF]

I'm not a dub or an ex-dub, however, I wanted to tell you I appreciate your channel and others like you. You are helping people you don't even know and that is a great thing.

[@BALCACER]

Always with good video and people. Thanks!

[@marvelprince9893]

Once again..great video Fifth!!!

[@moonsong9472]

What a wonderful interview. So relevant and informative for truth seekers. Well done gentlemen!

[@davidwicklin9943]

Excellent points about the cultural mentality created in JW from platform talks bullypulpitting Rank and File to "not have kids". The Borg culture mindset manipulated Michael to have a vasectomy at 23 and I had similar discussions with other JW's at the same age mid-1990s. I heard these type of F.O.G.S. talks back then coming into JW at 20 in Chicago. If Michael lived in Lubbock, TX and served in a small town nearby, I wonder if it was Denver City, TX as my GrandAunt Maureen lived there until her passing in 2005. KZbinr Stacy Lopez is in the Lubbock area as she did some fantastic videos even on the Texas Tech campus.

[@captaindovestone3894]

Hey fifth, im pimo in Manchester England and have recently awoke but have a very very zealous pioneer wife , thanks for the videos , very helpful in keeping me focused, all the best to michael for being strong, and giving great heartfelt advice.

[@saffronhammer7714]

I remember those talks and messages about the selfishness and lack of wisdom in having children in the Last Days---which messed with my head, as I had already had two children. So messed up in every way,

[@ShoNuffSoulBro1]

Abigail Parker ; And yet these directives are “ from heaven” ?

[@wilskilky]

Does anyone watching this interview remember in the early 2000s the rule of not showing outward affections to your spouse during the meetings so as not to offend onlookers? Anybody remember that bs?

[@ShoNuffSoulBro1]

commentshavebeendisabledinthelandofbabel : Yes, and I remember in early 2000s when they railed against technology in a district assembly talk and the Watchtower as being a waste of time, energy, money to buy and learn to use those tech gadgets. They just go way overboard on things. Totally one sided.

[@barbaramullins4233]

Great information. Being candid about our humanity is something we we're never afforded as JW's. Waking up is a difficult process, but your only alternative is to remain in an organization induced coma

[@johnmichael2184]

This resonates so much with me. The phrase burned in my mind forever from my judicial committee is "the punishment needs to fit the crime."

[@naterobinson5141]

WoW! Another great interview one of the arguments this interview makes is one of my own strong arguments and that is the Elders are simply not equipped to handle issues of substance abuse and other issues that plague people.

[@cindyarnold7322]

To anyone struggling with addiction, it isn't a character flaw. It's an attempt to solve a problem, to ease your pain, anxiety, depression. Seek out help with professionals, groups etc. You cannot pray away your pain. You cannot punish the pain out of someone, but you can find someone to talk to.

[@PokemonRules333]

Wish that more people would realize this

[@saraabraham5486]

Wow, I keep praying that more come out of the Tower- Lord, Shake 'em Lord, shake 'em. I keep praying, there are so many decent human being in that Cult.

[@audratyler8750]

Glad you are free and building a happy new life Michael. I also grew up in DFW area. I knew a couple in Denton who were substitute C.O. I left in 2012.

[@autenticoverdadero5369]

Muchas gracias por esta emocionante entrevista, ha sido sincera, honesta y a la vez desgarradora. sobre todo cuando ves que la organización que se precia de ser la verdadera y amorosa te deja en la estacada cuando te expulsan , y encima tienen la desfachatez de decir que la expulsión es un a medida amorosa. Hay que ser muy cínicos para decir eso. un fuerte abrazo y gracias de nuevo por vuestro excelente trabajo

[@exjwfifth9838]

Este video ya tiene subtítulos en español

[@SalsaforV]

OMG my therapist told me to watch Season 3 episode 12 of Scientology and I saw you!!! I cried through the whole show. Im not alone and youre not alone!

[@SalsaforV]

And if its not you he looks just like you.

[@cindyarnold7322]

I enjoyed this interview! Like Michael I speak to my former friends and leave the door open a crack in case some wake up. Thanks for sharing your story Michael, I appreciate it!

[@darlenepatrick4619]

Great interview. As I was listening and reading the comments I felt that some things needed to be said. When you're taught wrongly about our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ you will have that feeling of guilt and that you're not forgiven. Jesus died for our sin and we can go to Him, ask for forgiveness and be forgiven if you believe. JW's teach that our forgiveness is only work related, which is an abomination. I was raised up in it and throughout my adult life carried guilt for over fourty years. Until I found the true meaning of Jesus's sacrifice last year I couldn't let go of that guilt. There are many honest hearted people in the organization but the org messes you up with many of their false doctrines.

[@BeeMarzipan]

Even in Lloyd's video, in which Michael's participation was brief, i deeply sensed that he was a nice person, and i think your video, Fifth, really settles that to me. I'm so happy that he met his friend again and they're happy together now.

[@jehovahswitnesses7747]

Thank you very much for sharing Michael I was trying to figure out how to reach out to you because I didn't even get a last name. I would probably have a lot more positive things to say today, but I'm feeling sick. 💙

[@annabizaro-doo-dah]

*WHOA not expecting the happy twist to the story*!! Poor guy was "using on the toxic shame". I understand brother , but really happy for you now ☺

[@LLPOF]

Michael, if you are reading this comment, I wanted you to know this interview was great to watch and at the same time, it was sad also. I am so glad you have come out of that wretched cult. I can only imagine what you have been thru with losing your family. Please don't make the mistake of thinking Christianity is like what you guys have experienced. You do have to be careful because there is a lot of garbage out there but please know there are authentic Christians who love Yahweh, always asking questions and studying the Word (it's nothing like what the Dubs call "studying"). If I can help you ( and also you Fifth, or anybody else ) with anything, let me know and I will try my best.

[@evieparatore1527]

Thank you for telling your story, good to hear of your happiness!

[@Mikenlisat]

Michael you are a beautiful man. Seems the WT vomits out any and all who truly have a love for God and neighbor in their hearts. They just can’t stomach them. My husband also had strong suicidal feelings from a similar experience of rejection, which therapy helped immensely. I noticed you mentioned the term “Toxic shame”. Did you learn that from therapy or from a book that helped you? If so, please share. We are always looking for things that might help. On our end - Ray Franz’ book on Christian Freedom really helped rip the WT guilt away, for us. Also reading the book of Galatians from any Bible (other than the WT) and it’s easy to see that the scriptures do not allow for any organization to exist above the simple congregational entity, otherwise it will control others and lead them down the path of legalism, rather than grace. And living under grace is so liberating! God bless ya!

[@MichaelPaddock69]

I learned about the concept of toxic shame from a book called "No More Mr. Nice Guy". Not the best title but there were some good points in it.

[@darlenepatrick4619]

You are so right. It seems that all who love God and are sincere are in the path of organization wrath even if we get caught up in sinful acts, God has provided a way out. Praise God!

[@MLH5882]

Before I faded I also had the conflict of my mind telling me that this stuff made no sense and how the WT contradicted itself. I just buried my head in the sand bc it conflicted with my WT belief system.It actually made me sick to my stomach bc I knew they were wrong but my whole life was tied up with the WT and social structure. I remember one "BROTHER" who was obviously mentally challenged, He had studied w someone and got baptized.Before This poor individual needed help and wanted friends so as you know the JW's are eager for a convert so they study with anyone. Well, he caused controversy in the cong bc he wasn't normal and was of. Anyone he got Df'd and I felt so bad for him bc he did not know what to do. He would call me and I spoke with him and he always in fear of Armageddon and losing his life. I kept thinking to myself this poor guy who has mental issues now has no friends, no help, nobody to talk with him it was just CRUEL! One night in a freezing cold I drov e by a bus stop and saw him at like 11:30 at night waiting for a bus on his own! I gave him a ride and he was so thankful. I think he could have died out there in the cold but he had been abandoned by the Congregation but this poor soul needed help . H e was not capable to live in his own and hew as a generous person when he was a JW. He gave a cars away to pioneers to help them out and other things. To DF him was absolutely mental cruelty the guy had no idea what was going on but it sure depressed him and he wanted to die bc he thought better to die now so he might get a resurrection in the future bc if Armageddon came he would never get a chance for life. The Guilt the WT throws on people is criminal. No wonder it is ot uncommon for JW's to commit suicide. You can go into a dark place as a JW. It is mental cruelty. I have been there. I had thoughts of Suicide even as a former elder.

[@Mikenlisat]

Mike Hughey - God bless you Mike. So glad we have escaped. I’m trying to keep from getting DF’d so I can help more victims. But damn it’s hard to wake up people.

[@lindadent1138]

There a hidden gems in every interview.I felt& thought the appeals committee was a waste of time.How can you appeal Jehovah? The elders claimed at one point they made decisions through holy spirit.They we're appointed through holy spirit.More double talk as usual.

[@darrenlawless4568]

Sisters don't even have responsibilities within their congregations, yet their are some who believe they are of the anointed class. Why? The second class citizenry and ultimate disparaging of women in this religion has lead me to believe that this is not the truth and has never been the truth.

[@bryanbond3886]

I can relate to this brother I I married a presiding overseer Elder's daughter 5 years into our marriage she committed adultery with someone she worked with and later on married but when she committed adultery it devastated me so I started drinking beer mainly and I was getting drunk every day because the marriage was over she wanted out not for my drinking she wanted to be with this man does she committed adultery with so I had my judicial committee and explain to them never been in trouble ever all the years I was in I told him to give me some time I was going through a hard time but no you're disfellowshipped that was 22 years ago I can't speak to my mother who is now 78 years old and has been a witness for almost 50 years my sister's don't speak to me my brother in-laws don't speak to me my father passed away in 1999 I was just Starship to 1996 I went to the funeral at the hall and was treated like shit I was hurting of course it was my father but there was no love shown to me absolutely nothing getting back to my ex-wife her father being an elder somehow nothing ever happened to her and she was the one that committed adultery she hasn't been a witness for over 20 years that I know of her family are still Witnesses I don't believe her father is an elder anymore but they're Witnesses but she can come and visit her family go out to eat anything she wants my mother won't even respond to a text message from me or my sisters I'm dead to them but recently I've thought about writing a letter so the elders asking for reinstatement now hear me out I don't want to go back I despise that Colt but attend the meetings and be treated like crap as you all know until hopefully they reinstate me and on the night that they announce the reinstatement walk up in front of the hall drop my pants and tell them all to kiss my ass and then turn around and walk out but of course I probably won't do this it's just how I feel after 22 years these people don't get it I asked God for forgiveness years ago and I know I've been forgiven but yet you have to go to a man a man has all the control a man controls your life to tell you if you're good enough to come before God but I know God loves me yes I'm a little angry still that my ex-wife can have a relationship with her family and I can't even set foot on my mother's property until she's dead believe that's crazy in it once he's dead I'm allowed to set foot on the property it's in the will the thank you for your story now you understand what it's like to be on the other side I repented I told him to give me time but now that all they know how to do and I think they enjoy it the power your disfellowshipped things have changed a lot since I was in we actually went door-to-door now they have carts they don't even do anything there somebody needs to let these Witnesses know that Watchtower has on stocks and Philip Morris tobacco Northrop Grumman Boeing aircraft and Lockheed Martin and others it's all about money and they will go down because God will take care of this but I pray for my mother sisters brother in law's and everyone else that's in this and I forgive them but the hurt will never go away there's no love in this organization no compassion no mercy we all know Jesus would not shun anyone God bless you both

[@kittylove2975]

Excellent interview‼️⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Thanks to both of you....

[@AV-th7uy]

Thank you both for sharing.

[@andreadiamond7115]

Another GUILT spewing cult. Toxic shame. “Loving” disfellowship. So sad. Best wishes, glad you’re out. Interesting interview Fifth.

[@joycelemonier4132]

I understand completely. I left over 30+ years still had contact with family because i was never DF. I never view any ex-jw sites, because I didn't need it, my life was fine all these years. It wasn't until I saw the A&E special. I couldn't comprehend the suffering by ex-jw. So I search the internet and read all the court cases. It's only been 2-3 months I started going to all the sites. I got so angry, thinking about all the years I pioneering, moving to serve where the need is greater, etc. At first it was anger, sadness, and now I pretty much feel sorry for active JW family. But now I'm more interested in helping ex-jw that are in the process of leaving.

[@theresaakins2317]

I also got hooked on pain meds. I completely understand. And what I have learned in my addiction studies and rehab is that being addicted isn't a criminal offense but a medical problem. Please do not judge yourself. People criminalize the problem but it is a health problem!

[@deangoff9596]

I completely understand your situation, as an alcoholic who slipped I was disfellowshipped rather than helped. Very loving to remove your whole support system in order to help you with an addiction. Their mindset is so completely off on this and other abuses (sexual, physical, psychological, etc.) They destroy lives and kill people. Blood is on their hands.

[@agentdyer]

Excellent interview! When I started fading back in 2004, I also made the mistake of believing that I could salvage the relationships, especially with my family still in the cult. Wow, was I mistaken. I just married a loving and supportive woman and over time have made some awesome friends (some of them ex-JW's). Of course, JW's think that you are going to have some miserable life outside of the cult. Not true ... we can recover and move on.

[@joseandresparra8909]

Great interview. I'd like to share this video with some of my friends in Venezuela. It would be awesome if the video had spanish subtitles so I can reach more people with it.

[@exjwfifth9838]

te aviso cuando termino los subtitulos

[@yidahacucdm7986]

I can so relate to his experiencia being a third generation born as a witness. I also fded away. I am happy and free now.

[@uriahlendsey]

“In an appeal committee, The thing your told to focus on is making sure the original committee did their job right in the first place” .....mind. BLOWN.

[@connormusic9274]

Exactly. It’s men and women who muster up courage and seek Jehovah’s spirit , that end up actually producing the changes that need to be made.

[@johnnyruins9025]

thanks Cliff and Michael for a great interview

[@kendrabond7647]

Thank you for the video. I feel so sorry for Michael - how awful for him. Whatever you do be an CO, Bethelite, etc - it will never be good enough for the WT. The WT are anything but loving, it is a harsh regime and they love having control over people. No wonder so many have mental problems such as depression.

[@saraabraham5486]

Watchtower is evil. Glad it is being Exposed- It is the Lord's doing.

[@blondefro]

I’m a recovering alcoholic, and only woke up well after my DF bec of my involvement in twelve step and other support groups.

[@daretodiffer1090]

Around 35 mins. Michael refers to the emotional response from family and friends to his letters. In the 1970's I would tell people during my ministry that a major difference between JW and other religions was mine was based on fact and knowledge, not emotion like all the rest. Today , thanks to JW broadcasting and its heartrending music, and hundreds of tear jerking videos, the organisation is becoming as tele-evangelistic as many religions we rightly condemned all those years ago.

[@MimiMimi-np3lq]

Great interview!

[@idrishamilton2620]

Your are so blessed to be able to enjoy life. JESUS SAVES GOD BLESS U AND YOUR FAMILY. IM A BAPTISTS I ATTEND CHURCH 2 TIMES A MONTH LOVE IT.

[@juliak8189]

Thanks Cliff and Michael for a great video. So helpful. I'm in the Dallas area, been out of the org for 3 years. Michael, I think we might know some of the same people. I don't see a way to contact you though, and I know it's not safe (bc of phishing, etc.) to leave one's email address on a public page like this. Is there another way we can get in touch? I'm in the DFW Ex-JW Meetup group if that helps...congrats for standing up for what you believe in by the way. I know it's not easy. It is the path to true freedom though, and what a great feeling, isn't it?

[@donnyetta]

Very interesting, thank you. However, I helped the ex-husband with his appeal letter and after being seen by three elders he didn't know, they decided he would not be disfellowshipped. So appealing a decision to be disfellowshipped, is definately worth the time and energy.

[@mattmatthewmatchuu]

Just spent christmas with this fine gentleman and his wife. We had a lot of fun and hes a lot more happy now haha. I told him he was emo in his interview lol.

[@reaturree6769]

I am so sorry that you had to experience all that you have, however, with experiences in life depending on how we handle them we come out a lot stronger than when we first began. I am reminded of the scripture 1 John 4 English Standard Version 4"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. " I don't see the problem with Jehovah period, the problem resides with "mankind/doctrine" of sorts. There was the same situation during the Apostle Paul's time when HE had to address" The Super- Apostles" 2Cor:11 Common English Bible 4" If a person comes and preaches some other Jesus than the one we preached, or if you receive a different Spirit than the one you had received, or a different gospel than the one you embraced, you put up with it so easily! 5 I don’t consider myself as second-rate in any way compared to the “super-apostles.” 6 But even if I’m uneducated in public speaking, I’m not uneducated in knowledge. We have shown this to you in every way and in everything we have done. 7 Did I commit a sin by humbling myself to give you an advantage because I preached the gospel of God to you free of charge?" Certainly, no one had it as hard/disrespectful than Christ Jesus, his message continued and never changed. Never give up on Jehovah God and of course Christ Jesus. You can still share the truths that are in God's WORD!!!!! I am happy that you were able to re- find the love of your life and to marry!!!!!!!!!!!

[@diederikhaveman]

Great interview

[@charltonblake9967]

My witness mom told me she was so sad that she didn't have more kids. It's too late now and that makes me so angry that she was deceived.

[@charltonblake9967]

its funny how hard it was as an active witness to find time for exercise and proper diet when you are in a car all the time in field service.

[@ShoNuffSoulBro1]

Charlton Blake ; Oh no, that’s a waste of time and you’ll have to work more hours to afford such things and that will take away from your field service time ! !

[@guillermovilla9517]

Fantastic interview!!!

[@annetteku1]

Thank you for this video both of you. This is just so important work🌱🌞