Ex-Elders Tell All - Part One

In the first of a new series of videos, Charlie McCoy and Michael Paddock share their experiences as elders within the Jehovah's Witness organization. Both candidly reveal alarming stories that highlight the abuse, politics and corruption that is rife among "spirit-appointed" men in Jehovah's "spiritual paradise."
This video topic was voted for by my Patreon supporters.
If you are a former elder and you would like to appear on a future episode, please send me a voicemail using the details below.
Support me on Patreon: / cedars
Follow me on Twitter: / cedarsjwsurvey
Follow me on Instagram: / lloydevanscedars
Buy my book "The Reluctant Apostate": a.co/5qFN4JU
Buy my book “How to Escape From Jehovah’s Witnesses“: a.co/e9OQRi1
Leave a voicemail: www.speakpipe.com/cedars
Check out Lloyd’s t-shirt designs: teespring.com/stores/the-relu...

[@boatymsboatface3929]

Once in the 80’s a JW came to my door with his young son, and as we were speaking, a bumblebee flew between us and the man threw his hand up to swat it away. His son flinched with his whole body and raised his arms up in front of his head defensively. It couldn’t have been more obvious that he had expected to be hit and was protecting himself. I’ve never forgotten that moment. Then more recently I became friends with a man that had been raised in the church and over time told me about his childhood of being beaten and watching his mother and brother being beaten regularly by their father. I’ve always had an intense dislike for any organized religion.

[@merylbarnes2770]

I have seen nice men become bulliies after becoming elders. We were watching and waiting to see if 2 close friends of ours would fall in line or step down after becoming an elder. One stepped down which I thought showed his good conscience. The other started attacking our inactive grown children to try to disfellowship them. Threatening us if we didn't find out what they were doing and turn them in. It's amazing what the illusion of power can do to some people.

[@jimbobaggans1564]

Meryl Barnes Yes, some see through it. They are just too good of a person to let the illusion of power corrupt them. Others, fall right in line and start goose stepping. They love the power they think that they have and they are anxious to try it out. To flex their new muscles. They want people at the hall to be in awe, like when the Marshall walks down the wooden sidewalk with his big hat, badge, and colt peacemaker. It makes me laugh.

[@rachelek9563]

How creepy of them to want to stalk people!!!!

[@bobbiecapewell5333]

I've seen some aim for elderhood, with that power in mind. Those you know to avoid. It's truly sad when you lose good men to the corruption of it

[@lindadent1138]

Meryl Barnes don't turn your grown children in they won't turn theirs in.The elders handle their dirt in house they don't tell on themselves.A elders twin daughters got in trouble him& his wife left the congregation because it got out.

[@merylbarnes2770]

linda dent I would never turn them in. That was one more reason I woke up from the indoctrination and left 9 months ago

[@jolinamaitland1853]

"Living as your inauthentic self is painful..." that is SO TRUE

[@psychological6707]

I'm a member of AA. I have experienced more love there than I ever did in a Kingdom Hall.

[@MrDenzal27]

Thats because (aa) is a proper fellowship.

[@Gabriel19760]

Hi Psycho, me too. It's been 5 years since my last drink or drug. AA is so much more loving then the witnesses.

[@Gabriel19760]

@@MrDenzal27 so true, and grounded.

[@lorrainesmith.4995]

they were so loveless.

[@howiemandel5787]

@@MrDenzal27 take a look at my long reply to the original comment below I think it’s worth a read so you can see what it was like for an Ex jw who felt like I had just found another cult when i went to AA even though I definitely still feel mainly positive about what it does for people

[@lisacabello8624]

I have seen people literally lose their mind trying to get hours in and they are dead broke, stressed, depressed, ect. I was in org for 30 years and now facing retirement with nothing saved. Like may my age we were told Armageddon would be here LONG before we died. Well here we are facing retirement BROKE and with no energy left to work hard like when we were younger.

[@peace1544]

Lisa Cabello que te desperto de la secta?

[@smilesgirl17]

I hear you girlfriend. I'm 30 and just getting my bum in school... wishing I had that time back

[@JamesRichardWiley]

I can't believe you didn't look at JW's PERFECT RECORD of failed predictions. It's on Wikipedia.

[@JenniB123]

@@JamesRichardWiley JWs aren't allowed to go to apostate websites. Its all part of the mind control

[@jimmyabrake61]

Funny, my kid was raised in the truth and is a doctor. . .

[@SusanGaskin]

That was so interesting. Both Charlie and Michael come across as kind, sincere and intelligent men - so glad they woke up and got out!

[@katiebear0]

Susan Gaskin Just asking but if being a Jehovah Witness was so bad then why did they join in the first place, like what was the point? This is seriously bullshit!

[@SusanGaskin]

Thank you for asking. I did not join willingly. I was born into it. Children are baptized at a very young age, before they learn the actual facts and the true nature of the organization. When you are old enough to realize what's really going on and want to leave, your family and friends are pressured by the organization to shun you. They believe you have sided with Satan and will be very soon destroyed by God at Armageddon. You are left with no one in a world that you've been taught is your enemy. I moved 3,000 miles away from everyone I knew and began my life over again. It wasn't easy, but I'm so happy I got away from this damaging cult.

[@katiebear0]

Susan Gaskin Quiet sad that a kid knows what a cult means and how to use it but an adult doesn't. Also kids DON'T get baptised at a young age it's their choice and many DON'T so DON'T go lieing to help youe story!

[@kimadams446]

You are treated so nicely until you get in and you are brainwashed to believe it is good and to believe the teachings. Once you are in and have been tricked it is hard to get out and in many cases you are held captive because your family is also in and you want to have a relationship with your family. If you leave you can no longer have a relationship with your friends and family. The standards are impossible to live up to.

[@kimadams446]

That is what cults do. There are so many around the world. Not just Jehovah's Witnesses. It is hard for a person to understand who was not actually in it, like so many other things. For example an abused wife, the me-too movement etc. Unless you are actually in the situation it is hard to understand, I was one from the afe of 15 until about 8 years ago and I am now 62. I struggled with a lot about the religion for years, but you are made to feel that it is you who has the problem because so many people are faking the funk so to speak so you feel like there is something wrong with you. Then one day you realize it's not you and then videos like this and so many other help you to see that there were other who were feeling exactly the same way as you do. All I can tell you to do is become one and you will see.

[@bryanbond3886]

i was repentant and i was disfellowshipped 22 yrs ago. 22 yrs i have not had a mother. sisters or family

[@YourName-dt5ct]

Hey me too. My mom and sister live blocks from me. I miss having a mom and sister.

[@monicawebster8559]

Bryan Bond 😞😞😞😞 30 years walking dead to my mom. Same sin and they can't see that Jehovah is "The Almighty God" through His son Jesus Christ I Am forgiven. She (they, JW's) don't get that I shouldn't have to wait for man to forgive me. But they only do what the body of elders tell them too. SMH... It's to sad. To mourn your mother everyday as though she's dead. I've been so messed up for these 30 years, and there's nothing that can be done about it. I got baptised and thought I was just choosing my God. I never knew I was joining a cult...oh my bad "the organization." Horrible. I hate that they get away with this and all the child molestation, rape and the millions of babies that are killed (abortions) and children not bring taken care of because some women won't tell so the brother won't get disfellowshipped. I knew 2 women 2 months before I lost my virginity that got abortions and they're still JW's. Me I was so loyal I confessed my sin before I even knew I was pregnant and still got DF. Crazy stuff. I still pray my mom's eyes and everybody else's gets Awakened.👀👀👀👀👀

[@jbmaruca4397]

How tragic and beyond unmerciful and unjust. My only suggestion is start loving yourself, in the way that you would like for them to love you. Be good to yourself, Jesus loves you so much:) May God have mercy on their souls, and may Jesus comfort your heart with his loving presence.@@monicawebster8559

[@jbmaruca4397]

I'm so sorry for what you have suffered:/

[@jbmaruca4397]

So sorry for your loss, be gentle with yourself, love your self as you would wish they would love you, @@YourName-dt5ct

[@vanoramoon674]

My fathers an elder and I believe he enjoys the power play.

[@internationaleden]

Vanora Moon give us an example

[@jdstep97]

Vanora Moon, that's usually the case. Not disrespect your dad, but many (not all) have little education and no positive employment outlooks, so the position of elder makes them happy, gives them some esteem they cannot get in "the world".

[@411wales]

They all do..these man are all a regular Joe. They all thrive to make it to that position over other's. I saw it in my father as well. We where made to act not yourselves for ever all a show for the benefit of other's. We repremended rjght there in our seats if one of us was falling asleep. He used to pull our ears or were pinch vey harshly and God forbid if we made a scene like crying. Then we would really get it at home something to look forward after thd word of God. My parent's both were very abusive toward us they ruined my brother life especially he was a broken man at the end and all bc he made my parents look poorly in front of the other's in church. This religion is just that a religion according to man NOT GOD.

[@jimmyabrake61]

Yeah, he would probably be a jerk if he was a priest too!

[@jimmyabrake61]

@@411wales JW church? Umm, okay . . .

[@administrativeprofessionalsllc]

Thank you, my "former brother's" ;-) I appreciate you sharing your experience. I've been out for 19 years now, after serving for 14 yrs faitfully! I didn't allow the elders to grill me in one of their meetings. By the time I finally came to my senses, there was nothing anyone could say that would've made me stay in that borganization. It was the 'this generation' modification that awakened me to the fact that most of the 'friends' are like mindless zombies and they'll go along with anything the borg says. But there are good people trapped in many of the cults that exist today. I'm glad I had my experience early in life. Nobody can convince me that they have "The Truth" now. I listen to God the Father, His son Jesus Christ along with the Holy Spirit. And don't asuume that I believe in 'the trinity'. For me it's no longer about dogma, it's about Life. And God is Life. Amen 💗 Love you guys!

[@charlenewatkins9126]

Tamara Griffin Amen!

[@smilesgirl17]

Hello Tamara, I had left long before the "generations" thing, but recall an uncle trying to reel me in with it at a family gathering once upon a time... What is this concept they were trying to pass off?

[@michaelandrew3397]

So much to relate too, I spent 15 years as an elder , awoke last year. Had sex offenders in my hall and neighbouring hall. Great interview , so interesting to know that the experience on the org is the same everywhere , we disfellowshipped a 65 year old single sister who had a male friend stay in her house for a few nights even though she was physically incapable of intimacy. No need for two witnesses there!

[@shallowlove9507]

Michael Andrew 😱😱😱 Whatttt!!!

[@stellawil]

Michael Andrew Wow !! So glad I woke up

[@katiebear0]

Where's you proof?

[@carlsands4060]

Michael Andrew that's the issue I have...as a Male incapable of having intercourse...but i have other people living in the home...i work a third shift job.i have 2 diseases and in my 60s I am not going to remarry...i barely drive anymore...when i was married i didn't have this problem...but my wife died and I have some other big stresses in my life.late breaking message...I am not sinning. Where is the mercy...the Christian qualities of the christ???

[@michaelandrew3397]

Carl Sands they are only interested in protecting the brand and following the rule book

[@bobbiecapewell5333]

I was actually shocked to hear that both Mike AND Charlie had had experience of child sex abuse in the organisation. It's an epidemic. And, I agree, disfellowshiping of addicts helps no one

[@goodhealth1302]

No one is getting this. They disfellowship you so that should in case the law caught up with you,you can never say you jw to pollute the org. And even if you do say you jw,they can say it clearly to you that 'you not' bcos you were disfellowshipped.

[@barbarahedges1791]

The wt does disfellow ship addicts. You can't even smoke a cigarette if you want to stay in. Prince no doubt dropped in big checks to the WT

[@SilverGirl-925]

Congratulations to Mike and Charlie for not being willing to sacrifice their humanity for this religion.

[@bettytheex-jw1253]

My younger brother became an elder in his mid thirties. His personality changed. He became arrogant, self righteous and extremely judging. His conduct and behaviour led to me being hospitalized with a nervous breakdown. That was the impetuous of my waking up from being an indoctrinated JW. I spent my recuperation time reading the Australian Royal Commission transcripts of Watchtower investigation into mishandled child sex abuse. What a brutal wake up! I kept my faith in God and Jesus but woke up to the WT fraud. 🙏❤️✝️

[@delphinawhiles6235]

I have seen this also myself with family members. Position of leadership change people. Even sis that take the lead in meetings in the deaf group. The power goes to their heads. I once had a family member say to me once, " you never congratulated me", so n so did, but not u. I had a very personal reason not to congratulate this family member. I stayed quiet. I was only in my early 30's when believe it or not I had no voice, I internally agonised over things n cried, why. I'm not that person anymore. I have a voice n I'm not afraid to use it. I moved states to get away from this family member. It wasn't easy n still isn't. I lost out on mainly the grankids I never got to know well n have a relationship with. I have met them all bar my bros grandchild but protecting my sanity was my main focus. Had I stayed with my jw family (even though then I was a true believer I may have committed suicide.) My 1st shock listening to ex jws tell their story was wow theyvthink like me, I'm not crazy. N Wow they r genuinely nice decent, honest people who just want truth. I rang my bro n told him this. I told my husband. It was such an eye opener to me. Better to have a few close friends than family who judge u or condem u for thinking differently. Or a actually don't have your back. It so saddens me that 3 men in a back room can destroy a person's life n break up a family. I've seen this with my own eyes n kids suffer bc they have to choose which parent to live with. N

[@MonaLisa-yb9bq]

My ex husband forced me and our 3 kids to move to China in 1997. We spent 3 years teaching English and preaching tirelessly in mainland China. We were finally kicked out by a school and then told go back to Canada. 2 Elders in Hong Kong gave us 5 airplane tickets to move back to Canada and also planned 2 full weeks of free accommodation with bros and sisters, meals included. We had to pay the bros. back which I did. We worked our asses off preaching under ban there. My eldest, 18 at the time, had gone to Hong Kong himself and picked up literature at the branch, bringing it back into China. Police pulled him out of the lineup to cross the border from Hong Kong into mainland China, and asked him why he was only one day in Hong Kong. He said that we taught English and that he needed to visit friends for a change. So they took him, with his suit cases full of literature, to the front of the line to be processed faster and get through the border, and then onto a train back up north to where we were. What pisses me off is that others who go to where the "need is greater" go to 5 star hotels and areas, and then think that they're doing Jehovah's will by not having hot showers as though that was much of a sacrifice. I've been so angry about those ones who then get interviewed on the platform at meetings, as though they are such good examples of serving Jehovah. Not, not not. I've worked hard for Jehovah and know that I've done the best that I could in my circumstances. Those "elite" idiots in the JW organization are in for a surprise when Babylon the Great goes down because that includes the Jehovah's Witnesses religion.

[@doornocker93]

For me I was DF right after attempting suicide ( I had my gun to my head for 4 hrs till come amazing officers talked me down) after 3 days at a mental hospital and 4 days out I was taken in to a meeting and DF. After that I tried 2 more times. Disfellowshipping is dangerous. I don't know how I am even alive now.

[@rebeccaabel4589]

I'm glad and thankful to Jehovah God you are alive.

[@connormusic9274]

You were Df'd for attempting suicide??? My God! The hypocrisy and arrogance of JW elders just seems to know no bounds! Well, they're fulfilling the prophecy that the Apostle Paul wrote about at Acts 20: 29, saying, "after my going away, oppressive wolves will enter in and not treat the flock with tenderness. " And they certainly failed the command at 1 Peter 5: 2, 3 to "shepherd the flock of God, eagerly and willingly, not lording it over them." What a disgrace to the love of Christ! I'm so glad that you have survived this ordeal. Know that there are thousands like you and me included; that have suffered immense emotional and physical pain from dealing with fleshly men who discard the yoke of Jesus Christ; ignore the mercy of Jehovah and his care for us abandoned servants. I was DF'd for petty, personal conscience matters; no clear scriptural reason; and have devoted over 58 years to serving my Creator Jehovah and his son Jesus. 55 years in the "org". I am making new friends and have found truly good people from all religious backgrounds that are more Christian than the JW's ever claimed to be. ( Psalm 91)

[@deangoff9596]

As an alcoholic, it did not matter that I asked them for help or that I was repentant. They knew that I was being DF’d before they met with me.

[@stellawil]

Jehovah_ Knows_ that’s how it works. Most of the time, the decision is already made before the person arrives

[@deangoff9596]

stellawil yep. So nice of them to not be judgmental.

[@smilesgirl17]

Well. I hope since getting out of there you're doing better. It's not easy to have those teachings swimming around in your head.

[@kaitlynchristensen8231]

My brother is an alcoholic and is also a whole hearted believer..he has been DF’d for years and it has not helped him in the slightest. He already isolates himself and he has become so much worse without community and it’s been awful for his 10 year old daughter.

[@AV-th7uy]

1. This interview format was spectacular - an open forum. 2. Its nice to actually hear that there were elders who CARED! They weren't out to DF people everytime...that they truly cared about forgiveness and weren't overly judgmental It was always my personal belief that 20% of the elders were in their positions because they 'fell' or were pushed into them, 30% were elders because they genuinely cared and wanted to help people/congregation, and 50% were just power hungry low levels that had no authority or position outside those Khall walls. So being an elder gave them some type of power and control over others...a feat they couldnt accomplish our in society.

[@matilda4406]

AV, that's about right with the %s I always wondered how young elders or any elders were made and then promptly declared they were suffering depression. I could see something was seriously mentally wrong with the positions.

[@saraabraham5486]

on the verge of my waking up in 2015; I was giving fake time. I made it up when the School Conductor used to texted me for time. Deep down inside, I felt reporting time was just "silly" because Jesus never said to report time.

[@humanape677]

Greetings Lloyd. Thank you for your civil videos. I speak from an insider's view. Fifty plus years as a JW. worked with governing body at world headquarters in Brooklyn NY. Many privileges of service long behind me. We worked the elder arrangement at Bethel a full year before it was released out to the congregations. When the arrangement was introduced to the congregations there was a stampede of bro.s wanting to participate. Although I have participated in many elders meetings as an adviser from the "society " I never desired to be an elder nor did I ever become one. Not for me. I recall a DFing meeting I knew all the particulars of, which was presented. The three elders were not interested in the facts of the situation and would not listen. It became evident they were set from the get go to DF. It is similar to a mob mentality. They have their righteous agenda and there is no reasoning with then. This and other incidents though the years broke my heart for the bro's & sis's. The JW org. Is not what it claims to be.

[@littleexplorers]

I really appreciate these messages. Especially Michael’s advice to listen to our conscience and do what’s right. I have been out of the organization for over 10 years and sometimes digging into exJW experiences can be emotionally draining. To me, Michael made an effective witness of love. Even though we may not be Witnesses anymore does not mean we are no longer the same loving people.

[@majafleur9646]

Very wise comment.

[@carolxmas3331]

I once visited a London Congregation with my husband . An elders wife came to introduce herself and said ....” is your husband an elder ?” ...I said “ no , he’s just a very nice man “!!!!!!

[@lindelwanothandongcobo8863]

Best comment lol

[@ernestforrest8801]

eKasi IceCreamShopTV 9

[@oluwafemiakintola9166]

Good answer for her

[@shilonel2284]

My husband was involved with 2 cases where they disfellowshipped sisters, and he hated it, he felt so bad for weeks after that.

[@rachelek9563]

Disfellowshipped for being raped? I know someone who was sleeping and a stranger broke into her house in a rural California area at knife point and raped her. She screamed "No! This is a sin against Jehovah God! Please don't do this! Please don't kill me." Because she did not scream the word "HELP!" she was disfellowshipped for fornication.

[@diarradunlap9337]

They used their "Two-witness rule" to get her DF'd, I am sure. The same way they do to cover up child sexual abuse, and try to use the Bible to do it. What they ignore is that the Mosaic Law made provision for such situations as rape in an isolated area or situation The "Two-witness Rule" was not applied in such cases, and the rapist was executed.

[@shilonel2284]

@@smilesgirl17 agree, but that's how it works if you are in a cult.

[@shilonel2284]

@@rachelek9563 that's so disgusting! I'm so glad I'm free from this evil cult.

[@Officialkingz1]

@@diarradunlap9337 Ahh the good ol 2 witness rule. Because a child is always molested in front of at least two people right! A Pedo's dream...

[@ellyngaecki6910]

Lloyd, I love watching your videos. Always packed with pertinent information yet never do you rant in anger-especially toward any in the rank and file. The extreme anger seen in some exJW videos really bothers me because it's only going to further reinforce the indoctrination of current JWs. "See? They're right about apostates! Gotta go knock on doors now." You always exhibit a heart of compassion for those still in their cult-induced stupor, wanting only to help them awaken. Keep it up, Lloyd!

[@marekmajewskiuk7165]

Good point.

[@blvckemo_]

Ellyn Gałecki ye

[@caralampkin4400]

Ellyn Gałecki - I can only echo your sentiments... Lloyd's channel is an awesome resource and a gentle prod towards awakening for those who are allowing themselves the luxury of doubt. Really excellent work as always Lloyd. Don't know how you find the strength to keep producing such powerful content but am grateful that you do 👏👏👏

[@lovelygirl630]

Ellyn Gałecki you make a point about the anger on some ex jws but it's easier said than done when they are left to repair alot of emotional and some physical damage.

[@ellyngaecki6910]

jacquelyn strauss I can certainly understand the pain, the anger as well as the damage, both physical and/or emotional that *all* ex-JWs are left to deal with. I thank my God more and more that I was subject to the cult for *only* 7 1/2 years. I see the pain caused by longer and often *life-long* association with the organization. I know this only by *seeing it displayed* on these videos. I suppose my concern comes with the purported goal(s) of posting the video(s). If your goal is to tell the world *how you feel* about having been used and lied to by a cult masquerading as a Christian religion then rant and spew expletives all day and night. Say whatever you want. The rage would be expected. If your stated goal(s) involve *helping* current JWs to wake-up and escape from the influence and control of Watchtower then the one making the video really ought control their anger-if they do not, their anger will only prove Watchtower's claims regarding the *lies of bitter apostates* to be true and the juvenile displays of uncontrolled anger… hatred? serve only to drive the Witness viewing the video deeper into the cult's indoctrination and control. So, videographers, consider your goals and act accordingly-no bait-and-switch tactics, please. Lay out your goals upfront. If you are filming to display your anger and resentments, own it and be honest about it. If you are filming to assist current JWs escape Watchtower's control or help ex-JWs to heal as they recreate every aspect of their existence-remain calm, be sincere and have compassion. Your anger isn't really directed to the rank-and-file Jehovah's Witness, is it? No. Your anger is toward the hierarchy… the Governing Body, the district- and circuit-overseers as well as the body of elders. Make that clear in your videos. Express your anger and pain but please don't add to the pain of current Witnesses by doing so. I hope this adds clarity to the point I was trying to make. ~Ellyn~

[@lindadent1138]

I'm glad to see their really were elders that cared about those in the congregation they were supposed to lovingly shepered.

[@jannamarkiewicz8662]

I have been JW for 31 years, due to my mom's initial interest, and I have never felt a real committment to this organization. For me it was just a better solution than being a Catholic so I tried to survive for so many years....However, now I'm on the edge of my endurance, I'm full of anger and untrust for them, there so many things to be mentioned, so many negative emotions, this feeling of being brainwashed totally....I have always said that once you've dealt with JW and be taught by them, you will never recover and become the same person as before, it's just impossible. I even left organization a few years ago, I did it together with my husband an he seemed to lose the sense of his life, he started drinking, smoking and our marriage was doomed to failure...I blamed myself because I found and spread "rebelious" knowledge from the Internet, I forced my husband to leave but after that we were really shunned, my parents (also JWs) gave up on us, our former friends really crossed the street when they saw us, we felt like being nowhere because we couldn't get back to Catholic church, sometimes I felt like I lost my hope for a better future and I lost my blessings from Jehowa etc. Finally, we decided to get back to them, we had to sit at the very end of Kindom hall, we had to say we are disfellowshiped and couln't shake hands for almost a year, now I see how cruel and humiliating it was. I'm JW again and I don't feel happier at all, initially, I just regained the feeling of 'being somewhere', of having people who will bury me or my husband just in case, and so on, but I have NEVER EVER felt like the part of them, never had real friends there, never believed in blood issue and "the light changes" and so on. Now, because of coronavirus the chief of our group (I just hate this guy) decided to make phone calls EVERY DAY just to analyse daily text together and as a means of mutual care - for me it's unbelievable to treat adults like kids!!! Ok, i have to finish, i don't want to bother you with this sad story of my life, I know that being free is impossible because I would have to struggle with my husband, resign from my parents and become totally alone. I am forced to stay within an organization and just be a good actress in this mediocre theatre. Thanks to anyone who decided to go through this testimony, I feel a relief that I could tell it openly to people who are likely to understand....

[@yvonne3903]

You sound nice, please consider making a new life. Start by making a bucket list. A list of all the things you'd like to do and all the places you'd like to see. You could join a club, like a swimming club, to increase your self-esteem and make new contacts.

[@elizabethyoung4900]

I totally understand you, it's the same for me

[@rubenoeschger5728]

You can leave ! Seek the Lord Jesus Christ. You will find peace and joy ! And Salvation.

[@rubenoeschger5728]

With God anything is possible ! Read the Bible, the NJK or American Standard Bibles. Mix with other people especially with spirit filled people. You can leave ! You owe it to yourself. I will pray for you and I believe that through God's grace you will be saved !!

[@melodyjohnson1767]

I'll be your friend!! I feel the same. Id love to chat!

[@roscoejuniper7047]

Haha, I think facial hair is a mandatory backlash for every male waking up.

[@goodgirlkay]

Jack Garyson "fellating the huge phallus of capitalism"? Well, we know what thoughts you are preoccupied with...

[@Mercutiossword]

ROSCOE JUNIPER it was for me lol

[@roscoejuniper7047]

Mercutiossword me too

[@roscoejuniper7047]

kay jay wow jack, i hope you dont celebrate Flag Day

[@roscoejuniper7047]

kay jay ... wow jack, i hope you dont celebrate Flag Day

[@lindadent1138]

I knew something was wrong with the idea of being appointed by holy spirit concept.But when they appointed him elder I knew Holy Spirit had nothing to do with it.I coined it the buddy system.I told my husband they have made a mockery of the holy spirit appointing him.Thanks for such a informative interview with those 2 EX Elders.

[@darlenedybas9706]

I thought JW’s didn’t believe in the Holy Trinity ❔

[@Squishy_tank04]

@@darlenedybas9706 they don't, but they do believe in god Jesus and the holy spirit as three separate entities. Or well the holy spirit is god's power in action.

[@didsdods1358]

Facts: An elder will never be a good father

[@marykahn6803]

Maybe I've missed it but I think it would be good to really go over exactly what happens to someone psychologically when they are disfellowshipped. As someone who was never in JW, I'd like to know this. I was a scientologist and was declared a suppressive person and lost all my friends that are still and but worse than that I lost my son and suffer from that every day. I really don't think people in general understand the repercussions of that. I firmly believe that no group that has shunning, disconnection, etc., as part of its tenants should NOT be allowed to have 501c# status as it is used as a control mechanism on members.

[@mamabear8555]

Mary Kahn the only thing that comes to my mind is it's not human. To walk into a room full of people you have known your whole life ( while disfellowshipped and working on gettimg reinstated) and for you and your innocent children are treated like you don't exist...not human. It REALLY messes with your mind and self esteem.

[@evelinholmes6401]

Unbelievable that an adult would believe in that crap. One must feel it is not right especially you can read up and google it. Also wonder where the get the money from to built churches. Since nobody is encouraged to study for getting ahead.

[@lenawade3014]

It's like being labeled as a suppressive person.

[@RickBRUSA]

It the most ruthless thing you can imagine. You whole life just gets taken away from you in a blink of an eye. Is like you died and became a ghost. You can see everyone, but no one can see you. The emotional scars are unbelievably painful.

[@majafleur9646]

It nearly killed me.

[@dawnross2514]

I absolutely love these interviews with ex elders and ex bethelites! Ex rank and file (and current) need to hear the inside info. Thank you all so much for sharing your experiences. P. S Really digging all the facial hair 😀

[@greatdayn4651]

"For all that is secret will eventually be brought into the open, and everything that is concealed will be brought to light and made known to all." Thank you for this video which turns on the lights (new lights) and forces (will force) the cockroaches to scatter.

[@annetteblack6882]

Great Dayn I second that!!🙌

[@charlenewatkins9126]

My husband was also “love bombed” and had more than one of the “sisters “ give him full big breasted hugs ,I am blessed he figured it out and laughed it off and is a faithful,good man to me.

[@robynbass9636]

Very interesting thanks for sharing Charlie & Mike. My mate in Australia became a elder, his first judicial was a widow with 2 kids who had a brief relationship with a non jw. He was against D/S her because she was extremely repentant, but was bullied into agreeing with the other 2 elders. He phoned the service desk at Sydney Bethel & spoke to Rodney Spinks (from the ARC notoriety) saying a mistake had been made. He was told by Spinks & I quote his exact words - "the paper work has already been done, anyway it will teach her a lesson". My friend reigned from being a elder, it was his start to the waking up process.

[@jwsuicides8095]

Robyn Bass I had originally thought that Spinks was a fallboy for the org. Now I think he deserved it.

[@beckyg927]

My brother just became an elder and it is my hope that this will be what wakes him up! We were always very close growing up (only a year and half apart in age), but he completely shuns me b/c I am df'ed. I pray he will wake up and we can have a relationship again, before it is too late. Love your channel Lloyd! 💕 Thanks to all 3 of y'all for sharing this.

[@jiggyone868]

For a start tell him to read proverbs 4: 13-18 to see the whole context. That should be a start. Attack his point of view from biblical point of view

[@BA-gd1ub]

@@jiggyone868If I was that elder I would reply Hebrews 12:11 as a reply to that DF lady. Let that sink in

[@BA-gd1ub]

Becky why were you DF? It’s common for the DF ones to play victim 😂 they never tell the wrong doing they did. So what did you do to get DF? & for the record I have DF family members and I still talk to them. So what’s your point?

[@lisacranmer8005]

​@@BA-gd1ub😮 immediate family can...in the same house, if need be....

[@mrswonderful4880]

I am an addiction counselor in California. I would be willing to meet with exjw people...no charge.

[@greentrees2111]

Ms. Purple Queen if only in Florida : -(

[@RedSpiralHandTV]

Interesting. Was disfellowshipped back in the 70s at age 18 and struggled with drug and alcohol use my whole life. Seems very common.

[@renereid6455]

Sooo amazing of you to offer! I almost killed myself when I was disfellowedshipped in 2014 and really could have used this kind of help. Thank you for caring!

[@jamieangel3766]

Would you be willing to communicate by email or skype for those who are not in California? I'm based in London UK

[@kevinmoore1480]

@eileen, is your offer still available? Via zoom or something possibly? 🤞🏽

[@freakydeaky2316]

I'm an ex JW/publisher. I never used to question the authenticity of the JW organization. They seemed to have what I thought was the closest to the thing truth, until I got older, and disfellowshiped myself. I have a brother who is still with the organization. I had asked to be reinstated because it was limiting my ossiciation with him because of my current status. They told my to ask again in six month. Of course I didn't tell them the only reason I wanted to get reinstated was because of my relationship with my brother. I knew going in they weren't going to reinstate me at all.

[@Jack-lw5oo]

Great segment John ,I have a minor grievance with this interview. You allowed Charlie to state that”An Elder really can’t do anything if it violates organizational procedure” If he want to maintain his appointment - That’s just not true .As someone That served as an MS for a Decade and worked closely with two elders that dealt with abuse cases(who were friends)they obviously couldn’t give me details about the case.They told me they anonymously called the police on a pedophile in our congregation . Not only are they still serving ,they served on my judicial and DF me 🤪🤨. My whole point? A man of conscious ALLWAYS HAS A CHOICE

[@LloydEvans]

It's not unheard of for elders to be asked to anonymously contact the authorities about an abuse case. The problem is: this doesn't happen in every instance, as is evident by an abundance of lawsuits and documented cases. The organization's own policies indicate that whether there is mandatory reporting in the state in question will have a bearing on whether elders will be allowed to report. We even have a case in Ireland of elders being removed from their positions for reporting without the permission of the branch. So I would say your experience, which you admit is a thirdhand account, is the exception rather than the rule.

[@michaelandrew3397]

All elders HAVE to contact Branch Legal and follow their direction, from personal experience they would be on dodgy ground to initiate contact with police . I was lucky that the case I was involved in the victim decided to go herself to the police.

[@jiggyone868]

Jack they were following procedures, what else would you have them do? They knew it wasn't right that's why they left. It's not easy being in their situation. Try being an elder and see what it's like.

[@Jack-lw5oo]

Jiggy one did they have a choice? The issue I have is that no one was pointing a gun to their head and saying jump of a bridge ,I was in a much more precarious circumstance than the both of them and I made a "choice " with no compromise to leave with my dignity in tact

[@meritofapproval]

A behind the scenes expose-wow! Very informative and similar to how I remember it. To those of us who truly believed, and honestly tried to be of service to our brethern, "the truth" turned out to be heartbreaking.

[@kittylove2975]

Thank you for sharing your stories Charlie and Mike, and thank you for conducting these interviews Lloyd. .

[@kymm0712]

My father abused me for 12 yrs of my youth he was serving as an elder the first time it was brought to the elder body’s attention when I was 7 and then again when I was 12 and finally it all came back up again in my 30’s at a different congregation. In the end the governing body claimed it was his word against mine since there was no 2nd witness. And I was told to forgive and forget. My father stole my childhood. I will never forget and never forgive. The organization is a hiding place for all he want to hide. And you can easily love to another congregation and spread your evil ways to more. I am awake to this cult and realize that my authentic self does not acknowledge these men as shepherds of the flock of God.

[@yvonne3903]

But when other people go to the elders with the same stories there becomes a body of evidence that should not be ignored. There is strength in numbers. This adds to the organisation's guilt and it will catch up to them the authorities take a very different view.

[@michelesandstrom4975]

Same happened to me. My father was a ministerial servant

[@nancykarola1617]

My dad is an elder..I can safely say this cult ruins people. Also, these ex elders have a good heart I can tell and I'm glad they've seen the light.

[@annetteblack6882]

Thanks for sharing Charlie & Mike. So glad you both are awake & OUT!! Lloyd, this is a Great new segment. We all love experiences💪✌

[@RickBRUSA]

Congratulations to all of you for a fantastically respectful conversation. I think we can disagree with the ones who still a part of the organization without having to trash them. Thank you again for sharing your experiences. I wish you all a happy and fulfilling life.

[@theruddz5011]

I found there to be favouritism in regards to who would be disfellowshipped. A lot more lenience to prominent elders and their families as apposed to some one who is not as prominent. Happened to me

[@nicolchristopher6756]

One time my book study conductor made me turn in fake time because he didn't want anyone in his group to be on the naughty list of not having any service time that month.

[@Cylindropuntia]

The content of this video is absolutely amazing, I truly hope to see more of Mike and Charlie in the future!

[@roxybes]

I was raised as a JW but never baptized. The past few days I've been researching the religion and am shocked of how much info we are not told or made aware. The child abuse situation at the kingdom hall worries me. You never know whose a pedophile at the kingdom hall and even worse that elders must keep quiet about it is despicable.

[@blitzblutz]

Great idea Lloyd! This might be the best thing to help active JWs get out of that cult. Have real stories from men that were high up in the Watchtower to counteract the contrived stories ‘the organization’ spews out.

[@matilda4406]

The governing body members didn't show up for meetings ????????

[@nikikay5597]

Great interview Lloyd! I'm so excited to hear that you plan to make this a new series!

[@margaritaorozco4663]

Thank you Lloyd. Great interview. I have learn so much with your videos . Thank you so much for your time ❤️❤️

[@joycelemonier4132]

My family attended the Brooklyn Heights kingdom Hall when Malcolm Allen I think was CO. This was back in the 1962-1968. I've been faded for over 30+ years.

[@janderbing2961]

Both are so brave to tell their stories. They ring so true, each from a different perspective, so amazing to see the comparison of stories, lets make sure that this is stored in history.

[@internationaleden]

Man I can’t believe I used to be SO into that group long ago and would’ve been there still slaving away. I’ve been out 8 years and it’s still difficult to carry on, it’s really messed me up psychologically.

[@stuflames4769]

When you repeat "it's fascinating", Lloyd - you're right. I have no connection to the JWs, no friends, nothing... I didn't even grow up with a religion, period. But, your channel and these conversations... the genuine nature of your self, have drawn me in through many, many of your discussions.

[@hannahterry8847]

I'm really thankful for this video and I look forward to more parts on this subject!

[@seeingpatterns7234]

I enjoyed the powerful sentiment right at the end. And I love that Lloyd asks for whether they have any thoughts for someone who might be watching videos on this subject for the first time in their lives.

[@kristineolsen477]

Great conversation! Thank you. Please do more of these if you can :) Your friend Kristine

[@greatdayn4651]

Another winning video. Thank you, sir, for your time and efforts.

[@c.t8958]

Thanks Lloyd, excellent interview! As a serving Elder I agree with the sentiments. I would classify myself now as an Agnostic Serving Elder.

[@Neville60001]

+C T , how do you manage to do that and not be disfellowshipped?

[@c.t8958]

Neville6000 I guess for me it's just a matter of keeping my opinions to myself and projecting the image that is acceptable to the Org. It's sad but it is the only way.

[@NoName-ub9qd]

I must jump in here and say that remaining an elder and keeping up your performance or the facade to fit in is the only way when you no longer believe it is the “truth” simply isn’t true. It isn’t the only way. It certainly is the easier way. But all you are doing is making other people feel more comfortable in their delusion while you choke on what you know. It is hard to leave all that you have known. I know. My husband and I just recently left and we both were born and raised in it along with all family. We have lost almost everyone. (My father who has been an elder for 45 years has chosen to remain in limited contact. It is out of respect for him that I use the pseudonym “no name”) It isn’t for the weak to wake up and walk out. But there is an unexpected burden lifted when you do. The freedom and being true to what you believe brings deep peace.

[@c.t8958]

No Name I agree it is a very difficult situation to be in. I'm just waiting for the right moment to make a decision and minimise the damage. Maybe in the future I'll be put in a difficult position ( ex:blood issue) and will have no choice but to leave. For now it is just a social club!!

[@NoName-ub9qd]

I hear you, CT. My husband was serving when we left. I had woken up years b4 but was trying to keep family peace and I thought it was good for my kids. Then my 18 year old son tried to kill himself in large part b/c of the intense stress and pressure for him to fit in and put away who he really was. All pretending ended then and thankfully my husband woke up by being forced to see that this way of life simply doesn’t work when In a time of true crisis. I wish you endurance and strength on the path you will be walking , brother!

[@thrivingexjw2061]

I love these experiences.. shows outsiders the REAL deal!!!

[@shadesofmakeup78]

Thank you so much for doing these interviews.

[@LAWoman323213]

I look forward to seeing more of these elder interviews. 👏👏👏

[@RiaCottingham]

Excellent interview, thanks, Lloyd. It was fascinating to get an insight into what elders have to do. Totally gobsmacked that BOTH guys had to deal with child abuse! That just goes to show how widespread this problem really is!

[@majafleur9646]

I appreciate the honesty here...that there were *high points*. I left to pursue truth not because I was angry, hurt, immoral or embittered. I loved every high point I ever had, truly.

[@awalker5340]

Thank you thank you thank you ALL 3 of you

[@dodaguyer5042]

Thank you for this! It opens up a view that most of us have never experienced!

[@kovaxxtruther1646]

Great insight into the lives of elders and what goes on behind close doors. Look forward to more of these.

[@williamj2244]

I am just watching these. I've been away from the organization for about 12 years or so. 15 years ago I would have not watched any of these. Apostasy and all that. Even now, I'm having trouble catching my breath.

[@Cuzndr3w]

I enjoyed Charlie’s interview with Fifth. His experience was one that stood out to me. Great Interview Lloyd

[@MrDJCue]

You have a link, I couldn't find the video on Fifth's channel.

[@Cuzndr3w]

MrDJCue it’s on there I just looked.

[@alanhope8971]

I used to play sports with Michael. Great to see you’ve made your way out as well!

[@terryodonnell2873]

Wow that video was excellent. The quality keeps getting better and better.

[@lynngardner3330]

Overall THANK YOU , I feel it’s so important that watchtower is exposed on the issue of child abuse. Elders leaving due to watchtower policy of ignoring or hiding child sex abuse should be an eye opener to many. Keep bringing these videos.

[@vCoralSandsv]

Great conversation!

[@Lulu-oi9ue]

My “friend” is the organisation was a victim of her husband. Her husband was also a JW and he sexually abused her eldest daughter. It all came out as the daughter told her mum and he then went missing. The cops went to find him and he killed himself. Obviously the daughter left to live with her dad and to this day. He trust with her mother and the organisation is broken. My friend won’t leave as she is completely attached to the toxic love and positivity. The way she parents who other two kids from her abusive dead husband of course is toxic. The people in the congregation are two faced they try to portray a perfect image but behind closed doors is the opposite. I’m awake now.

[@greghall7172]

Great interview my fellow ex elders!! Rise up we will!

[@BiteYerBumHard]

Thanks for sharing! I knew, years later, looking back at my own judical when I was df'd, the elders didn't have a clue. At one point I used the analogy of Damocles sword and one of the elders attempted to cash in, feigning intelligence and giving his reply using that term but showing that he hadn't a clue what it meant. They asked irrelevant questions and had to meet with me four times. They eventually applied to Bethel as there was obviously a stalemate in deciding. Bethel wheeled out a paragraph from a Kingdom Ministry from 1974! I can see now they didn't really know how this applied to my case, so much so that when asked later by another elder what I was df'd for, I couldn't say. I didn't know what the accusation was even to this day. One of the elders followed me out and said (in a heavy Welsh accent) "I know you'll be back. I can tell you love the truth." From that moment, 17 years ago, I haven't made a single effort to attend a meeting or return.

[@matilda4406]

Wow ! When I think I've heard it all, you don't even know what you were DFd for !! Wow! Dopey elders.

[@BiteYerBumHard]

Full disclosure. An elder got heavily into my wife and when it all blew up and was challenged, denied it. My wife had a breakdown and became obsessed with the situation and I had a breakdown and moved out for three months. When I returned the elders met with me (one fell asleep during the whole thing) and said they'd like to see an improvement in our relationship. They called a judicial and it seemed that my relationship was the lynch pin. "Have you been praying with your wife?" "She's catatonic right now and won't talk." "Well you failed, then" It sort of went from there. Very odd escalation. I was, at the time, taking antidepressants from suicidal thoughts. I'm so glad the six elders (3 from an appeals committee!) were all qualified mental health specialists and not janitors and window cleaners. I think the stink my behaviour raised in the congregation was the motivating thing. I think I was df'd using a catchall charge such as "Behaviour which pissed off a few people obliging us to make an example." Dunno.

[@matilda4406]

BYBH, apart from cleaning work they are experts at splitting, breaking and destroying families. Sorry for what happened, hope your marriage now has peace.

[@BiteYerBumHard]

"hope your marriage now has peace." - in pieces actually. It was all too much and we divorced 18 months later. By means of his spiritual paradise, Jehovah certainly blessed us.

[@matilda4406]

BYBH - I can't see a worse organization that is so bipolar, promising the manic and delivering the dungeon lows. I've seen it so many times. Actually sadistic, because they seem to delight in ruining people.

[@linvest8466]

I enjoyed the interview, thank you. The organization's motto is: "No independent thinking Brothers and Sisters!" Individual discretion cannot survive, for it's the gov body's goal to do your thinking for you. Can you be faithful and discrete inside this sect? Think not ~

[@jeneb52]

Thanks guys, may you find peace in your life, and if you still believe in Jesus lean on him when you feel down about the things you had to do! And Lloyd thanks for having these two wonderful men on.

[@peace1544]

jeneb52 Lloyd lost faith in Jesus?

[@marywhite8517]

Thanks for the shorter video. I was able to sit through it and found it informative. Most of the time I'm not able to complete viewing a longer video, I fast forward after a bit to get a feeling of what is being shared.

[@marywhite8517]

spellbound111 I'm thinking you say this in jest. Ha ha. I've been out for over thirty years. Armageddon isn't of any concern to me. I prefer not to have to sit for more than 30 minutes. It's too much like sitting for the talks at the assemblies I use to attend. Besides, I got a little heart from John. He understands.😛

[@marywhite8517]

spellbound111 😁

[@rodywithers3536]

Fascinating interview in which Charlie and Michael share experiences of their time as elders in two very different congregations yet their accounts resonate with similar patterns along with your experience as an elder Lloyd. Adherence to organizational directions and politics predominate. Appreciated tne observations that either charismatic elders and/or CO's often exert undue influence on judicial committees. JW elders - not so different from other church leaders after all

[@AbitbolAvital]

Amazing video, thanks so much. So therapeutic to hear regular guys talk the org lingo like it’s behind them. Gives me hope I’ll get there one day.

[@yvonne3903]

The sooner the better life is too short, especially when you've always thought you'd live indefinitely

[@TheGameShocker]

The African American guy was on exjw fifth channel. I recognize that voice lol good to hear from him again.

[@exjwfifth9838]

Bass lol I was wondering if anyone would notice 😁

[@rodneywarren645]

Thanks I Enjoyed that Segment.

[@elizabethjohnston8193]

Wonderful video gentlemen....thank u for giving me a view of the elders.

[@TheNotsoignorant]

I saw injustice after injustice over my lifetime. Corruption covered over and innocents harmed. There is no way that God's Holy Spirit would cause that to happen. That woke me up.

[@justjenn1345]

New to channel. Born into jwo No longer practicing, just wanted to say ty for sharing and pray for those who are still there.

[@jokich6379]

Over the past year, I have listened to both young people as well as elders. The experiences are vast and enlightening. Sheep following but what? Thanks for sharing.

[@ForHireGeek]

That is an eye opening discussion.

[@jeffwatkins7006]

These experiences are fantastic!!! To all those who down vote hearing actual truth...all I can say is " Thank You For Watching " to quote a great activist!!!

[@cynthiacrawford1]

Very interesting and lots of info! Thanks for the apology I was mistreated in my committee meeting!

[@shelly-anntracykruger4088]

I'm one of Jehovah's witnesses and proud of it. I've been disfellowshipped 3 times but still love and admire my elders. They their to help and correct just like Jehovah himself. They represent Jehovah. I love Jehovah and he still loves me even though I made lots of mistakes.

[@LloydEvans]

Thanks Shelly-Ann. I love hearing from Jehovah's Witnesses who find my videos. It motivates me to make more! :)

[@whimsical_me5135]

As far as judicial committees go, I've been the subject of a couple of them, and "repentance" didn't come up at all. They had very obviously made up their minds of what the outcome of the meeting was going to be, before I ever walked in the door.

[@alexajulianna2424]

we are Jw's my dad and mum was physically, emotionally abusive to me... but my mum is already disfellowed and I'm baptised but I don't know I'm confused now. Help me

[@marykahn6803]

Very interesting interview. Love the closing: Be authentic.

[@nicolefox3200]

I remember being told if a man was not an elder he wasn't worthy of marrying.

[@matilda4406]

I like Charlie, thanks for both experiences, I get everything Charlie said.

[@angusmac2037]

Thanks again Lloyd...and most importantly, the previous serving elders for telling all! These videos really are "de-indoctrination" therapy! a lot of people in the JW organization are really good people...but have been lead astray. Your channel is amazing, please keep up the good work helping us "awake" to whats really going on (see what i did there?)

[@TNTGAMERtheofficial]

In his 40s my 2nd generation jw father was accused of molestation by a young brother, in good standing, who was in his mid 20s. He had begun to suffer from PTSD as an adult due to flash backs relating to said molestation. My father, at the time of the alleged molestation in the 70s and at the time of the accusation made in the 90s was not an elder. However, for many years in the interm, he held many positions of privilege in the congregation. Because of this, he was well aware of exactly what he needed to do to avoid any accusations going forward after the first elders meeting was held between him and the young man. There was nvr anything done to my father as way of punishment and nothing more ever came of it. Except ...he was the head of our active jw family and father to us 5 children. Nothing was done to protect us .. ever.

[@Cylindropuntia]

28:06 It's like Mike is telling my story!!!!! I was addicted and subsequently disfellowshipped. Not only do you have to get clean but I had to do it without any support network of family and friends. I relapsed several times and contemplated suicided regularly. Waking up from undue influence has made my happier than I ever was as a JW. I'd like to thank some of the great people that helped me escape: Charles Darwin, Richard Dawkins, and Lloyd Evans.

[@Yourthe1iknwyour]

I think interviewing people is a great angle to go in I especially enjoy the higher ranking elders and pioneers stories getting more truthful stories about behind the scenes. I was just a sister in Pennsylvania. I’d love to help what you do in anyway I can but I am still unsure about how I feel about hurting my family by doing so. In the mean time feel free to contact me if you think there is a way I can help.

[@jeanniequaglia7432]

I would like to state that you would be 'SAVING' your family....not hurting them!