[Irish Reaction] Celtic Shamanism, Irish Mysticism & The Faerie Faith | Jonny Enoch | Lora O'Brien

[@grimsbeast]

I saw the title of the video and knew this was going to be good. So, not going to lie, I am a part of OBOD, I like generally the community aspect and the fact that they still let you believe whatever you want. I found them before I found the Irish Pagan School, actually it was someone in it that diverted me here. Anyway, there are a lot of criticisms that can be laid at the feet of OBOD and one of them is the quality of the information. Many of the concerns you expressed about neo-paganism is definitely in the organization. When I first joined and this is before finding the Irish Pagan School and I ran into the Matthews information on various pagan subjects, something was always off about the information. My academic and critical brain was throwing several red flags to me especially because all their work in the scholarly sense is shoddy at best. Once I did find IPS and I listened to your criticisms, I was like "Yes! This! I am not the only one" because even though I like OBOD, them embracing the Matthews like they have as always bothered me because of their, what to me is, a disregard for the actual sources of this information. Listening and watching all the Irish Pagan School stuff has only reinforced that which is why I am here. Love the content, love the dedication and I am glad to have way better sourced information. Hell, y'all inspired me to go to learning Irish full time. Hope to take some classes soon.

[@allenkinahan6955]

The best part about OBOD is you get a history of the all the nonsense first, which is great to be honest. And you are free to discard all of it. I agree with you on the Matthews, and we get to discard them too.

[@babymammoth34]

I had no idea that Irish people of Ireland don't use that term of "Top of the mornin'" and that it is an American creation. I was always led to believe it was authentically Irish. Thank you for sharing this and making it clear not to do so in meeting native Irish people. I am one who never wants to say the wrong thing. You have a really intriguing, informative channel, Lora.

[@mnemosine93]

I'm halfway through so Lora may have said this but.. The thing is, authors like Yeats were able to write and be published because of their privilege, both financial and social status. This privilege was not available to the majority of native Irish people.. So what you're getting from them is a very limited view, and coloured by the fact that they felt entitled to alter, add, and interpret without referring back to the very people who were carrying the folklore through generations.

[@geraldinemoorkensbyrne452]

Absolutely crucial point. So much of the information and cultural shaping from that era is based in colonialism and privilege

[@JackVJohnson]

In the same way I fear the impulse to step off the edge of a high place, I now fear my brain will betray me and blurt out "Top o' the mornin' to ye" should I come face to face with an Irish person... :)

[@sophiabreidfischer6242]

😅

[@TheCraftyCailleach]

I could see the pain of having to say "Sam Hayne" 🤣 cultural appropriation is modern day colonialism, and certainly a continuation of colonialist mindsets. Great video Lora!

[@babymammoth34]

We still need to be forgiving and patient with people who make innocent mistakes but want to be educated. Sometimes things are not cultural appropriation. That word is tossed around very loosely in my country. No good comes out of immediately pouncing on people who mean well but are unaware of certain things. Just sayin'.

[@hgriff14]

@@babymammoth34i was about to comment the only people that i hear say it like that are the people that have no idea what it is and they are just reading phoenetically. mispronouncing a word in a foreign language once is ok but doing it after you’ve been told the correct way is when its a choice, but when your world view is based on the logic that “everyone must know everything i know and if anyone says anything different about it they are wrong” then you get upset at things that dont matter. i mean this lady is saying “celtic” doesnt mean anything like all of western europe didnt practice the same religion in a different way.

[@babymammoth34]

@@hgriff14 Interesting and good points. I hear what you're saying.

[@allenkinahan6955]

As a member of the diaspora, couldn't agree with you more. Doing good work, thank you.

[@juliem.679]

Great video! I do have to stick up for the use of the general term "shaman" only because it is slightly better than using the terms "medicine man" or "witch doctor."

[@kurtbogle2973]

Sherri Mitchell has the best book on Turtle Island Indigenous Spirituality. It's a beautiful Earth connecting Spiritual path. It's 100% in tact. Im Northern Scottish, I love the Irish. I think we Celts should support each other. As a matter of fact I think all Of Humanity should support each other. Negitivity is boring. The planet is full of negativity. It's time for Kind Magic , the kind supported by the Universe. Ni dearfad me nimos mo.

[@forasfeasa]

Very interesting video and it is great to see Irish history and Gaelic mythology being treated with the respect they deserve! (Something far too rare these days).

[@nobodythatyouknow305]

Thanks for sharing your knowledge as always! I helps loads! So much wrong information out there it’s tiring!

[@kurtbogle2973]

I love the interaction with the Universe. Changing reality is mind blowing. Pondering a question, then getting more answers than your ready for. Shocking but fun. Kindness is the key. Remember those who died for what we believe in Ynnys Mon, and Holy Head in Wales. 1000 Holy Men who are not remembered!

[@Aimaim0909]

Do you recommend Irish Myths and Legends by Lady Gregory?

[@CutieBanana09]

Generally no, those are a retelling and not always accurate.

[@Green9is9the9Color9]

Im pretty sure i crossed that video right before I landed here! I'm thinking grandpa Evans had some inspiration on my thoughts just to skip that one💞I know very little of my ancestors other than we came from folk who had more than just a green thumb❤thank you for being who ya are and thank you for doing what ya do💞

[@ambercoleman2200]

Great sharing, thank you for spreading the truth! Where do i find the video you speak of "you're not a Celtic shaman"? :)

[@kurtbogle2973]

The intelligence of the Irish is obvious A people who will not be occupied. One of the reasons I love the Irish. James Conley is my favorite hero.

[@idontbelieveyou]

OMG... help... a friend just posted this video... I'd never watched it, trusting your knowledge Lora. But my friend posted it, so I thought I'd give it a go... I couldn't get beyond the ... "Top o' the Mornin greeting... which was the first thing he said... Gonna send my friend here for a friendly truth lashing ...

[@Wknn3]

To understand Jonny…I would highly recommend the Solar Symbolism episode of his Mystery Teachings season on Gaia. If you’re here for the ramble…girl, get ready. Seriously, this series will be a favorite to get through an episode per night. I promise, you will have to quickly ditch any notes of disagreement & just buckle up for the ride! Oh!!! Also, he’s definitely Canadian.

[@Ogham]

Jon needs to just stay in lane, there's nothing else to understand here. 😂

[@mattbrown7508]

I truly appreciate you and enjoy rewatching your videos. I still don't learn well in a virtual classroom, however, you're books and videos and an enormous resource, especially for a Virginian who's (sadly) currently living in Wisconsin and attempting to deprogram his colonizer mindset. I've been attempting this since you first asked your guests (and your audience) 'What's your Celtic Connection?' years ago. I forget my point...🤔...must've not have been important. Anyways, thanks for teaching and I really appreciate it.

[@marksiezure3285]

Very good. Would be interesting to hear your thoughts on "The Irish R M" stories by W B Yeats, if that's in your realm of interest.

[@myfyrioleremiticus]

When I want to assure people of my deep respect for the subtle nuances of Irish culture, I always draw attention to my green shirt and name-drop the Darby O'Gill movie. It conveys the attitude of reverence people want to see in scholars of Irish literature.

[@cellis1066]

Loll

[@jamesgarside2001]

Thank you for giving props to Wilde's parents. There is something attractive about Yeats. I do believe it is diasporic.

[@kurtbogle2973]

I read this somewhere. The Irish live in the shelter of each other.

[@kurtbogle2973]

I think it's beautiful that you know the true way of Medicine Man. I think there are different levels of Spirituality, A beginner who is casual will probably gravitate to the more knowledgeable. There is also the art of ketting things happen. Love Peace and Happiness!

[@northernspirit3910]

Just want to tell you that you made this woman's morning up in Donegal today, thanks Lora! I'm gonna play this again for my daughter when she comes home, guarantee you she'll be cheering out loud.

[@jandunn169]

I just happened upon your channel and I found your discussion very interesting, being an American myself. I would have been embarrassed as well hearing him use stereotypical phrases that show a very superficial understanding of Irish culture. It is a matter of respect. It can be hard as an American pagan, especially if oneʼs ancestors are from several countries to find where we belong.... It is getting harder and harder to even relate to other Americans in these crazy political times, not knowing if we will even have a Democracy in a year.

[@CutieBanana09]

The first president of the ROI used to hang out in Uaimh na gCat? I know sometimes a crow is just a crow but that’s quite the coincidence 👀

[@mariasteele6016]

Thank you for this. I wish you would do more tik toks on this subject. I've come across so many pagans on Tik Tok who are spreading complete misinformation on ancient Irish culture. Many are claiming that Samhain is British and not Irish and many Irish American pagans are claiming that St patrick was a Christopher colombus figure who committed mass genocide wiping out the entire indigenous Irish population. When I correct them I get abuse and likened to a holocaust denier. Its very frustrating when irish culture was so oppressed to now having uneducated Americans talk about it with such authority when they actually have no clue.

[@kurtbogle2973]

The Irish are a holy people! You know that. It can't be hidden.

[@-RONNIE]

Thanks for the video👊🏻

[@CailinRuaAnChead]

When you first mentioned Irish shamanism I was thinking wtf is that? We don't have shamans? Was very quickly vindicated 😂

[@HelennaRose]

This reminds me of Americans like Sylvia whatshername, there's these authors of books about the angels, saying they speak for them, and it's literally all cute pastel colors ... And the angels are like, not just cute colorful winged beings with pastel colors. Not at all. In fact, the angels led me back to my Irish roots and they can be equally dark or light, and they don't wear halos. Nope. Not one bit. I can't imagine though because it's like the mainstream american authors want to appeal to Gladys B. Housewife sitting at home with her 2.5 kids and her readers and she wants a summertime novel to gab with the girls at the local book club about.. and not be judged.. so she picks up these cringy books.

[@alyssamiller8290]

Hellena, I invite you to consider that people describe events and experiences from their perspective. An individuals experience is their truth and they will describe it as such. This truth may not ring with your truth but it is valid to them. This does not mean an individual is wrong for expressing their experience either. You are not wrong for understanding things from your perspective as well, I invite you to set aside criticism and judgment. Every Soul has a longing to ask why and that is why they would seek out resources like Sylvia Brown or a religion or so on. We are all on this walk together.

[@JonnyEnoch33]

@@alyssamiller8290 Agreed 100%. No need to bully others or talk down on them for having an opinion other than ourselves. We all experience and see the world differently and there it is great for spiritual teachers to teach tolerance for each other! 🙏🏻💗

[@Ogham]

Protecting your culture from absolute bullshit misunderstandings and spewing stereotypical ignorance is not "having a different opinion" 😆

[@JonnyEnoch33]

@@Ogham Irish Canadians cannot have a culture, be proud of their ancestry or a spiritual belief system? I didn't know you were the foremost authority on Celtic Spirituality and no one else could have beliefs. Your video is deeply offensive to Canadian pagans of Irish descent (whom you call "Americans") and I think it is a good example of religious intolerance (since many share these beliefs). But if this makes you feel superior to others, then go ahead. Take care!

[@rowandoesstuff]

@@JonnyEnoch33 Lora isn't the foremost authority on Celtic Spirituality, as that doesn't exist. Lora is, however, EXTREMELY well versed in IRISH PAGANISM. You, on the other hand, are not. Clearly.

[@MiaKerr-q4z]

Greetings from Canada. i am not a.part of the Irish Diaspora who is going to shove "Celtic Shamanism" down your throat. My father's family was Irish, from Mayo' and my mother grew up in Japan. My mother was from a Scottish Canadian family. However to stop the Celtic train, I grew up in the Canadian Arctic in the MacKenzie Delta, in an indigenous community. I thought I was indigenous until I started school and was told I was white. I was not comforted at that time when I found out my people were Scottish and Irish, not First Nations or Inuit. I share your concerns about cultural appropriation but I would like to share another perspective to add to yours. I have been interested in so called shamanism for many years. I am also interested in indigenous sacred traditions. I recently saw a documentary about Irish people being introduced to New Age "shamanism." Nothing could be more cringeworthy than Irish adults engaging in New Age shamanism using ceremonies based on North American indigenous traditions that mocked and insulted First Nations people here. One man claimed this was helping him rediscover his ancient Irish traditions! If you are squirming now, so am I. I would like to clarify some things about so called shamanism. I am in my 70s now, so the New Age movement has gone around three times so it is now the Old Age movement. Shamanism in North America, as you probably know was largely established by James Harner who was an anthropologist from California. He did not grow up in any indigenous tradition, and he tried to standardize global traditions which cannot be standardized. In fact so called shamanic traditions are so different that they are incomprehensible to other cultures. Unless a person is part of a culture and has been taught the traditions growing up, they cannot understand the beliefs of that culture. I grew up in a indigenous community, and my sister speaks Inuktitut and lived for over fifty years in Nunavut. Neither of us can really understand either Inuit or Dene (northern First Nations people), traditions even though we grew up with indigenous values.. It is also important to understand that in North America First Nations people never share their sacred traditions with outsiders. Why share secrets with your colonial oppressors? This is where cultural appropriation comes in. It is bad enough to have your culture colonized, as you know well, but it is doubly insulting to have it commodified and fed back to you as "authentic'. Kind of like North Americans of Irish descent teaching you "Irish" traditions. I just saw an interview with an Irish woman who was an expert on plants talk about learning shamanic traditions from her mother's family in Ireland. That peaked my interest until it became obvious that it was all based on fake indigenous traditions here I had heard many times from new age nonsense teachers. Another version of secret information from my old Irish granny. Although I am Canadian I am genuinely interested in real Celtic traditions, if they still exist. I read some books by the Mathews many years ago but I was very disappointed. The information sounded like it was all made up. When I was a child my father read us stories from Patricia Lynch books which he ordered from Ireland in the 1950s. They were magical and I loved them and they shaped my imagination ever after . Of course they went into the otherworld often, and they grabbed me forever. I have been interested in Irish mythology all my life, and also in any other world mythology I can find. I really feel proud that I am descended from people with such a rich cultural tradition. Naturally I am also interested in Celtic mysticism and animistic traditions. Is there any real information available that is not tainted by nonsense about the druids and misinformation about Irish history? I would really appreciate your response!!!! I will happily look you up on KZbin to hear more about you and from you.

[@MiaKerr-q4z]

Thank you for the video!

[@hArtyTruffle]

No intention to offend, but why would I need to study Irish Mythologies etc to be an English Celtic Shaman? Celts were widespread across European countries including Wales, Scotland, Ireland and England etc. I don’t understand what your problem is regarding the phrase "Celtic Shaman”. The experiences I’ve had during my lifetime are extremely similar to Shamans from other cultures. I can’t think of a better word other than Shaman to describe those experiences. In my ignorance, I would like to understand. Thanks 🙏

[@madmonkee6757]

There's no Sanskrit word for "holy" but there are definitely holy things in Hinduism. There's no English word for "tuerto" but that doesn't stop English-speakers from occasionally losing an eye.

[@jamesgarside2001]

I love my Irish Nana, but unless novenas can be considered Shamanism, I don't think I inherented any specifically Irish Mysteries from her. I will admit I do wish she a secret Irish High Priestess.

[@johnlavers3970]

also many english writers in caoe breton used to refer to nova scotia gaels as a peasant culture, so i laughed at that one. yup it's a class colonial red flag.

[@justincollins1138]

Okay I went and had a listen to Mr. Enochs ramble. Oh my! I understand the cringe, and it continues. He cites sources that are shaky at best. However it's nothing like what I have experienced for myself. I belong to no formal teaching just what I have learned and have "pitted" against my critical mind. I've learned to trust what rings true, or what does not. One thing I usually toss out immediately is when someone throws up and accent, then immediately follows with dynamic tales of their magical education. I call myself a witch, but I have no fantastic tales of riding brooms, or dancing naked with the devil. I do hold myself in account, as I believe one should if they are acting on behalf of a community of believers or none-believers. I find Celtic teaching if anything learning to give due respect to the people that founded it, I value sovereignty most and that is something I've been able to glean from you Lora O'Brien.

[@kellysardella928]

I also saw it, and my only thoughts were there was absolutely no rhyme or reason for him to create that video other them jumping on the trend .

[@helenastuder9492]

You are quite right to be angered. May I just respectfully point out that none of that is how Shamanism is supposed to work, either! So they've made a mess on that end of it as well. Just wrong all around.

[@epayne]

Lolll The cringe saying "sam hayne"

[@apaxicana]

Thanks so much for this Lora, the US is not Ireland.

[@johnlavers3970]

what you don't use oiche shamhna??? (gaidhlig).. i remember the massive pagan vitriolic fight over gaelic pronounciation, over saimhain/shamhna. it was mean. after it calmed down i thought it was safe to return to those discussion lists(and the attacks wer viscious and obscene). then the pronounciation of beltaine came up and it started all over again. i call anglo culture the culture that learns one word at a time. on every issue. ok they learned taht irishand scottis gaerls whre white, but not eastern europeans, then ok eastern europeans but notjews, ok jews now but not african people, ok africans, but now they are fighting indigenous at every turn. one words at a time/ speaking as a nova scotian gaidhlig person. (three grandparents maclaughlann, macmurry, and maciain-one acadien laverdure--lavers is the anglicized version to get jobs a generation ago). when i was a teen people in halifax called us heathens and barbarians. it's not that long ago. i amsad that nova scotian gaidhlig culture is dying. sob

[@idontbelieveyou]

Embarrassing, offensive, and absolutely clueless. Thank you Lora.

[@JonnyEnoch33]

Absolutely offensive and embarrassing. How dare Irish Canadians who are spiritual share their love of books, faeries and poetry on KZbin. Does this channel also teach a "course" on Irish kindness and tolerance?

[@jbrennan381]

@@JonnyEnoch33 Exactly. People seem to miss the point that sometimes people are ignorant of certain cultural or religious tradition. It was especially infuriating when she said if you mispronounce "samhain" that you're part of the problem. Does she really expect someone who doesn't speak a pretty obscure and not widely known or taught language to pronounce the words properly? Especially in the states. Yeah it's frustrating and humorous when people pronounce it as "sam hain", but very very few people in the states even have a basic understanding of Irish phonology. Plus, Irish folklore and folk religion doesn't have very many proper resources to read from, so expecting people to automatically know how a culture and spiritual practice works is ridiculous. I see it pretty often that instead of teaching others about your own culture, it's more common (at least in western areas) to scold someone for not already automatically knowing everything about said culture.

[@bridgetregan3181]

...thank you for this, I even stopped listening to you when you spoke of J Enoch.....the cringe was beyond bearable, .....Good luck with your work

[@IrishPaganSchool]

That guy is pretty cringe alright.

[@kurtbogle2973]

I wish your audio was better. I am hard of hearing, and because of this and your soft voice . I can't understand you. Please address this.