Is Abortion Sometimes Medically Necessary? Pro Life OBGYN and Pro Choice Midwife debate

[@alenanova6150]

I was offered an abortion at 18 weeks pregnant with MonoMono twins because the radiologist THOUGHT they saw an heart defect. The doctor pushed pretty hard for it and said there was no other choice as they would not grow out of it with time and would not survive after birth. The next day I saw a cardiologist specialist for a second opinion and was told there was nothing wrong with them, the heart was just immature at that gestational age. My kids are seven months old now and there is absolutely nothing wrong with them. I am still VERY angry and bitter about being told to kill my unborn kids because someone thinks they see something and don't want to think about if I had listened to the so called specialists. I wonder how many mothers have had unnecessary, unwanted abortions because of doctors that don't know what they are looking at

[@organic506]

Amazing story, you really have to be your own advocate with healthcare.

[@alyssamichelle1207]

Wow! “The doctor pushed hard for it” says a lot. Thank you for sharing your story

[@greentree730]

Wow....I wish the world could hear this. So unbelieveable!!

[@ayleenmau5504]

This happens a lot unfortunately. 😢

[@FoodFreedomUSA]

Unfortunately, a lot.

[@JasmyneTheodora]

I think the first thing that made me rethink my pro-choice beliefs years ago was learning how an abortion is performed. It was the most ghastly thing I'd ever heard. I was mortified.

[@kathrynjoseph3331]

exactly the same with me

[@Imzadi]

Same. I resent that I was brainwashed with “my body, my choice” without knowing the TRUTH of what abortion REALLY is. Y’all, we need to rethink this WHOLE thing.

[@advi8143]

Same! I considered abortion when I had an unplanned pregnancy. I came across Lila and Live Action on YT in my research… I was mortified to think I was so completely uneducated on the different types of procedures, being blindly pro-choice up until that point. my girl will be five next month ❤ my greatest blessing

[@jaynaysay1273]

@@advi8143wow! So thankful that you found the truth! Congrats on your sweet baby! I just became a mother as well, 3.5 months ago. It’s truly the most beautiful thing in the world ❤

[@kjpesl7311]

It’s so sick

[@AshleySmith-rl5ke]

A former professor of mine found out she had cancer at the same time she found out she was pregnant. She chose to keep her baby and also decided to move forward with chemo treatments. She delivered a healthy boy who is now 4 years-old and thriving. She sadly passed away last year after the cancer spread. But she chose to give her baby every fighting chance and he’s still here. I always think of her strength and bravery in making that decision.

[@Lilbitatatime]

My mother had a very similar situation happen when she was pregnant with my sister back in 1984. She got very very sick around the time she became pregnant. She continued to get sicker and around 23 weeks pregnant her organs started to shut down. She was offered an abortion but refused and kept fighting. They delivered my sister at 25 weeks and my mother survived 2 weeks after that. Thank the Lord my mother chose life or I wouldn't have my sister today. Your story is beautiful and so is life❤

[@tressahoffman7347]

@@Lilbitatatime wow what a story, thanks for sharing. Your momma was so strong!

[@U_neekliss]

Thanks for sharing. It came across that this wasn't possible from their interview here

[@Billie_Marie_]

Hero!

[@chowder2260]

“Give the baby every fighting chance” best quote 👍🏼

[@birdania7]

I was pregnant at 16. My abortion dr told me the truth of what my abortion would look like since I was 16 weeks pregnant. I changed my mind and decided to go through with the pregnancy. When I had my son I met a family a couple of days after the birth of my son and they stepped forward and took me in and helped me raise my son while I went to school. They were complete strangers. They were pro life. Today I’m 58 yrs old and my son is married with kids and has a successful life. The family that took me in became my foster family whom I’m close to this day. I’m forever grateful to them.

[@stevenstranger5688]

Awesome story and outcome.

[@joyhenry-dp8nd]

Beautiful.

[@madzs007]

❤

[@Daughteroftheking-g7n]

Thank you for sharing. This is a beautiful story. I would love to do the same for someone some day.

[@aaliyahm1697]

Much respect to that family, i think it's great if people are pro life and actually willing to help !

[@Zzzahhhh]

Single mom at 16 in 2008. No family help at alllll. Baby dad was in jail. I was working at Dairy Queen making $133 a week. Was offered a free abortion. Having my baby was the best decision I’ve ever made. I’m 32 now about to get into law school! There is soooo much help around. I was on welfare, my state helped me with childcare, helped me with health insurance, I finished high school, worked my butt off and now I’m living in a townhouse with a super talented healthy 16yr old athlete, car paid off, and working at a law firm. Having a baby young made me a strong woman- Made me ambitious. And even though we don’t have much, and no family, just us 2, we have so much love from the community and his friends. Life is never easy and peachy. I suffer with mental health issues. But I have my baby to watch become an adult and he makes me work harder to give him all I never had. Choose life 💚

[@jodygoodwin77]

You are so right! These difficult seasons we go through in life are what makes us stronger and there truly is so much support out there if we will just humble ourselves to reach out and receive it. No ones life is ever a straight line to the top. We all go through difficult things some of us more than others. So glad to hear that things are looking up for you and what a joy to have a little one to do life with 💕

[@miva644]

@@Zzzahhhh Wonderful story of why choice is needed.

[@liamjames5470]

​@@miva644you make the choices to create that baby before you even lay down. Don't start with that bs

[@miva644]

@@liamjames5470 Consenting to sex doesn't mean consenting to give birth same as howing driving a car doesn't mean consenting to a car crash.

[@Josiena-i3h]

@@miva644 no it absolutely does, on both sides. taking risks means assuming consequences. don't accept the consequences? don't take the risks.

[@yeraldinvazquez6884]

I was planning to travel out of state to get an abortion. Called so many organizations and was told to call them back in 1 hour to confirm everything. I was in my car at a random parking lot. All of a sudden everything hit me at once on what I was about to end. I looked at the sunset reflecting on and crying. I got a call from the organization asking if I’ve made my decision. I told them to give me 5 mins I hanged up and didn’t call again. My daughter will be 15 months this month. It changed my perspective on the conversation surrounding abortion. Seeing her grow and become one of a kind. I can’t imagine where I would be. Probably at a mental hospital if I ended her life because truly still till this day I feel guilty for thinking she wasn’t good enough for life.

[@MotherOf13]

You telling your story is such a testament to how life is truly precious. Please, forgive yourself and take advantage of your experience by continuing to tell your story...you WILL save lives and women from true regret 🙏🏽❤

[@disneyprincessintraining2725]

Honey, we live in a society where literally everyone around us feeds a lie that children signify an end and not a beginning and that we as women can’t possibly succeed or be happy as mothers. Your reaction was human. The important thing is you have your precious daughter. God bless you both

[@alexandralove3406]

You and everyone else in our society have been told that an unplanned pregnancy will ruin your life. How could you not have considered abortion in a scary situation given what society has programmed you to believe? Praise God you saw the truth and reconsidered. Please continue sharing this story. It’s important for others to hear!

[@miva644]

@@yeraldinvazquez6884 Your Lucky you got a choice not all women can say that.

[@yeraldinvazquez6884]

@@miva644 I live in Texas and still I could travel.

[@Lucky-r7y7w]

Well, this was the most non-confrontational debate on abortion that I have seen on these internet streets.

[@MommaBeeb]

I love “these internet streets." I’m probably going to use that.

[@janice68329]

I love it! Reasoned discussion about difficult topics is sorely needed right now.

[@janice68329]

​@@MommaBeeb ditto 😊

[@maestra3]

@@janice68329These compassionate women having this graceful and complicated discussion are a prime example of human capacity for good. When discussion cannot happen because the parties don’t show up in this amount of respect, and effort toward self education (vs imbibing identity/political talking points) , society breaks down and we become hateful of our neighbor. That’s a no-win situation. 🩵

[@katenoke1571]

I would have been afraid of the ob/gyn too. From what she said, she's one of those nutty clinic attackers. This poor midwife probably didn't want to be a target of hate.

[@ruthfowler540]

My great grandma was born very early at home & only 1 lb. The doctor that came to the house didn’t even think she was born alive and put her in a box by the wood stove in the kitchen. She actually was alive and when they noticed, they fed her with an eye dropper of breast milk. No modern technology and she made it and because of her life, I’m here today. Every life is so precious no matter how small. She lived a long healthy life and had 9 kids herself.

[@grassrootedgal]

Now that’s a miracle!

[@nate2759]

What an inspiring story!

[@lifewithmrsmacp]

Honestly that's so crazy!

[@DoggyOFFICIAL.]

That is TRULY AMAZING!!!!

[@joannajett2524]

Wow, so lucky !! so many babies in the same situation don't make it even with modern technology. I'm happy she did.

[@lauradrew1814]

I was offered an abortion because the radiologist didn't see a spine on my baby. They were wrong and my son was born absolutely perfect, he just turned 10❤

[@samanthamarie6012]

Wow. SMH. Insane

[@lucidarose613]

Praise Jesus he is here.

[@Jalapeño10]

That seems very made up. They dont just offer an abortion because they dont see a spine one time.

[@awilson8521]

We interviewed a midwife once, and she mentioned the baby in utero was a parasite. We did not hire her.

[@milo_thatch_incarnate]

HOly cow! Why would someone who hates life that much even become a midwife???

[@Lucky-r7y7w]

No way...

[@wabisabiasmr]

as you should!

[@lori342]

That's awful but I've heard a lot of pro-choice people say that.

[@melissacondon]

One of my midwives is now an abortion nurse. Absolutely horrifying.

[@Janiver-n1r]

I am on the side of the OBGYN but the midwife was the most reasonable pro-choice person I have heard. I appreciate these conversations.

[@dco8886]

Yes. Probably also the reason she agreed to debate.

[@Kayce860]

I agree! Really it sounds like on a personal level, she is much more pro-life, but really pro-choice only based off the fact she doesn’t wasn’t to government to legislate Medical care of a pregnant women, which I kind of understand. I wish our society was more pro-life and pro-pregnancy and birth in the sense that we had some protected medical leave, not having the cost of medical oversight be so costly, assistance in childcare

[@bridgettem0619]

​@Kayce860 imagine if the amount of money poured into PP instead went to helping support women with crisis pregnancies instead. Remove the crisis, not the pregnancy.

[@Kayce860]

@@bridgettem0619 exactly! I would love to see that implemented

[@noel0leon]

If we stopped pouring billions of dollars into wars, the pharmaceutical industry and nasa, it would so easily be done.

[@omnium_gatherum]

I wanted to *cry* at how supportive that OBGYN is of mother and baby. Omg. Everyone should have that as a resource

[@Cpellz]

I decided to call her out on the claim that there are more pregnancy assistance centers than abortion centers. So I searched my area, I live in a democratic state of IL where they love to end babies, and still she was right... there were about 3 or 4 abortion centers i found, but more pregnancy assistance centers than I could even count. Praise God!

[@omnium_gatherum]

@@Cpellz that's such an awesome thing to know! I can't believe it's not more widely known!

[@Cpellz]

@omnium_gatherum I hate to assume the worst especially when referring to peoples characters... but it may be they're not even considering another option, their minds are made up... it just makes me wonder why (rhymes with) smusmortion is the more widely popular option when a simple Google search shows that that option is actually outnumbered by the many many other institutions that won't try and convince women to do away with their children 😟

[@hempenasphalt1587]

God bless her!

[@alexandralove3406]

At 8 weeks pregnant, i wasn’t feeling right for a couple of days and felt light headed and dizzy upon standing. I started bleeding and went into the ER thinking I was miscarrying. I was diagnosed with a subchorionic hematoma, offered an abortion, and was told I had a 50/50 chance of miscarrying within the next 24 hours and there was nothing that they could do for me (imagine my frustration hearing this OBGYN say that progesterone could have been prescribed). When the doctor said that, I said in my heart that he doesn’t know I serve a God who heals. They sent me home and I took it easy and continued to bleed for several more weeks, but did not miscarry. Eventually I stopped bleeding and was able to get back to exercising, even running! Later, a blood test showed the baby might have spinabiffida. The anatomy scan didn’t eliminate that concern, but didn’t confirm it either. We knew abortion was back on the table for our doctor though we were not willing to consider it. It was scary to wonder if our baby was okay. Later a more informed doctor told me that SCH often results in abnormal labs. Would have been nice to know sooner. I went into labor at 35 weeks and delivered breech at home with my wonderful midwife. There were huge blood clots in the water after my delivery. That must have been a massive bleed I’d had. My son is the silliest, perfectly healthy 3.5 year old around today.

[@lucy588.]

Your strength and courage to stand your ground and follow what you knew was true in your heart is so incredibly inspiring! I hope to not forget your story if I am ever in a similar position. God is great truly! ❤

[@alexandralove3406]

@@lucy588. thank you! Covid opened my eyes to a lot of things with the medical industry. It’s why I changed my care at 27 weeks to a Christian midwife and just trusted God when labor came early and with the surprise of a breech baby (he’d been head down at my 27 week ultrasound!). Everything isn’t an emergency, but the medical industry only profits when you believe it is. That’s something I wish more of us understood.

[@jamiefragoso1593]

I had a SCH and I too thought I was miscarrying- so heart breaking ( I also had an incarcerated uterus which can be lethal to mom and baby if it doesn’t resolve) I started bleeding around 15 weeks thinking that’s why I was loosing the baby- the ultrasound showed a heartbeat but said that was so much blood in my uterus they can’t really see what is happening with the placenta. I bled until 31 weeks!! Then everything was fine. The SCH resolved they could see everything so much clearer. So thankful nobody suggested abortion to me.

[@lydiajohnson2156]

I had a very similar situation at 20 weeks, thankfully I had a midwife who was able to help me get progesterone and I carried my baby to term!

[@GingerBear88]

Thank you for sharing this. Praise God!

[@Unathi_samson]

May God bless you. I am a final year (male) medical student, and pro-choice is forced down our throats in our universities. Thank you Dr Ruberu for standing up for the unborn. You are an inspiration!

[@atroy1983]

If you specialize in obstetrics you will have many ladies deliberately seeking you out for their prenatal care :)

[@JesusisLord716]

You have a chance to make a difference 🙏🏼

[@binary7775]

It may seem like you are the minority but you really aren’t. The vast majority of doctors will not perform elective abortions and you don’t have to either. I majored in general biology. It blows my mind that there are people who believe that we don’t really know when life begins. Life for all sexually reproducing species begins at fertilization.

[@katenoke1571]

Fake news. Go back to Russia, Vlad

[@pameladowe2492]

So are you!

[@timmchale8057]

My mosaic trisomy 13 daughter, just entered her second year of pre-k. She is 4 years old and thriving. Despite the hardships we have endured with her, especially in the first year of her life, we would be worse off without her here. She is our joy and a joy to her older sister as well.

[@mariadeleon6954]

You have an Angel with you ❤… I wish I had more time to enjoy my trisomy 18 baby girl😢. I learned how to love her and love the ones I already have more than ever. She was our greatest blessing ❤and will never regret having her.

[@Ch3lRae]

I burst into tears seeing that 90 PERCENT of Down’s syndrome babies are aborted. I had no idea the statistic was that high. As a mom to a special needs daughter… that just actually broke my heart.

[@milo_thatch_incarnate]

Yes. More people need to be confronted with the truth that abortion is very often used to cull out "undesirables" -- as if any life is undesirable! It's disgusting. And _no one_ can get around the fact that it's disgusting.

[@dariann1661]

It is heartbreaking. BUT can you imagine if those children were being raised by parents who didn’t love and support them? Even despised or resented them ?That is also heartbreaking.

[@Ch3lRae]

@@dariann1661I could see that side of things but I am firmly against the idea that just because life contains suffering would make the person unworthy of the gift of life. Because although ALL of us endure suffering, we have a right to live.

[@milo_thatch_incarnate]

@@Ch3lRae - Fully agreed! Good for you for standing up for life, no matter what.

[@Nahnah111]

​@@dariann1661 While I understand your viewpoint, I disagree strongly. I knew a family at my childhood church who took in special needs children almost exclusively. They were well off and capable of devoting time and resources to these precious gifts. People like that exist everywhere and special needs children should be allowed to experience life just like the rest of us.

[@margeebono3546]

Dr Ruberu is my OB, got me my miracle baby, she is a saint on earth 🙏🏼

[@harleymanifesto1907]

You are so lucky. I've been too scared to go to the DR for over 10 years and I feel like id feel so safe in her practice. It gives me how to find someone like her soon

[@harleymanifesto1907]

You are so lucky. I've been too scared to go to the DR for over 10 years and I feel like id feel so safe in her practice. It gives me how to find someone like her soon

[@mickeyc2137]

she is mine as well. I just found her a few months ago. I'm 47, I wish I had known about her 10 and more years ago

[@kaylapoppen]

Dr Ruberu speaks so eloquently about such difficult pregnancy situations like ectopic, terminal fetal diagnoses, and choosing adoption. Her way of explaining the most honoring choice for the child & mother is truly beautiful and accentuates the love at the heart of the pro life position. Everyone needs to watch this incredible debate!

[@texasturbocat]

There is no need to rip apart a baby who is already dying except for the weakness of the parents. Deliver the baby, give palliative care and allow him or her to pass peacefully in mom's arms.

[@rchhtt5210]

I have met so many people with Down Syndrome and I can concur that every person has been amazing, vibrant, and lovely.

[@smallbeginning2]

My niece isn't 😂 she's grumpy, fussy, lazy and listless 😂 all she wants to do is eat pizza and scroll tiktok. She's 19, speaks in 2-3 word sentences, they tried to get her work at a disabled centre but she just locks herself in her toilet. She loves her dad, and that's all. I can barely even get her to look at me or answer a question. She hides at events. She can't read or write. She's not typical.

[@4651adri]

People with down syndrome have different personalities, what's your point?

[@Bearsbearsbears37]

People with Downs are people - some are lovely, some aren't. And it's important to be realistic about down's - it can come with chronic illnesses, and a lot of the people affected by it will never work or be independent. There is nothing lovely about that

[@rchhtt5210]

@@Bearsbearsbears37 I spoke from my experience of the specific people I have met. I worked with dozens of individuals with a wide variety of disabilities for 7 years. I appreciate you bringing up health issues, it’s true, a host of health complications come along with the genetic disability. I have seen so many people living lovely lives with disability (including my sister). Most of the people I knew with Down Syndrome couldn’t live independently but I have also seen married couples live independently with minimal support. People are diverse, being “lovely, vibrant, and amazing” doesn’t define who they are entirely. Every person is different and has their own struggles. We all have challenges as humans…it’s a spectrum. Some have far more difficult ones than others. With the right support people can live lovely lives even if they can’t work, can’t live alone, or have health issues. I have watched my disabled sister do it with help. It looks different but different is okay.

[@rchhtt5210]

@@smallbeginning2 Every person has their own personality , disability or not! I have known so many individuals with Down Syndrome and not one person was the same. Some were certainly more sociable than others and some couldn’t write or were non speaking.. some could do those things. Some lived in group homes and some independently with a little help. I have a big heart for people with disabilities of all sorts. I speak from my own experiences :)

[@madisonbayne1635]

If you’re “uncomfortable” with your position then you know something’s wrong…

[@alyssamichelle1207]

Exactly! That’s your conscious speaking!

[@kindasoupie]

I’m uncomfortable with lots of things that are perfectly okay/moral. Basing your beliefs on feelings is usually not the way to go.

[@Sher7061]

Yes, it was obvious in her body language. She knows abortion is wrong.

[@vikkidonn]

@@kindasoupiethen you have trauma going on…. And what do you mean by “normal”….. Normal is based on social acceptance and not morals or ethics. Slavery was once normal and is still normal in many places I’m pretty sure you’d be uncomfortable for a reason around it. Feelings can be extremely important assets

[@polina9466]

I’m very morally comfortable with abortion. What does that say?

[@rachelsinsurance]

I love this pro-life doctor! Get this woman on the national stage because more people/doctors need to hear about these alternatives to abortion! This is one of the best pro-life discussions I have heard (and I have heard a lot!). Thank you everyone ,including the host and pro-choice midwife, that made this discussion possible. Btw-kudos to the midwife for being so honest and professional in these discussions. We really appreciate hearing your viewpoints so we can understand both sides of the argument.

[@teresamagnusson]

There's no alternative. WTF are you talking about.

[@mattyw274]

Yesss. She is a fuckin goddess.. So positive too . Me being an asshole would want to argue with this lady until i exposed her arguments as dogshit. The prolife lady almost had a glow about her. She didnt have any ill feeling or spikey emo towarss pro choice person What a leader! I need to be more like her. More loving. More accepting of other views What a teacher❤

[@teresamagnusson]

​@@mattyw274Eh, I'm not impressed. As women, we decide who lives and dies.

[@aspreedacore]

@@mattyw274you a guy? I’m asking cause your name is Marty, I think us guys sees most convos as debates instead of a discussion 😅

[@SickkChild]

I just love how these 2 with different views can have a civilized conversation. I wish everyone could communicate like this.

[@pm7823]

We need more of these conversations. People just love to throw mud at eachother

[@jessicakeith8719]

I’m only 23 minutes in and I’m blown away that not all providers will give their patients the resources to help promote a healthy pregnancy. In my second pregnancy with my daughter I had light bleeding but we had been monitoring my hormone levels and found that my progesterone was decreasing as the days went by. My doctor immediately got me on a progesterone supplement and encouraged me to lean into my cravings (I was craving fish SO much) and to be intuitive with my body and my daughter is now healthy almost 3 months old.

[@lucidarose613]

I'm so glad your baby is here!

[@rexrsarex]

I am pro-choice and thought this was such a beautifully handled conversation around such a sensitive topic. I have no never heard the pro-life side of the argument from such medical, compassionate and non-religiouus perspective and it's certainly opened my eyes to the topic and perhaps it's not as black or white as I had originally thought.

[@casanchez91]

It’s nice to hear someone willing to listen to the other side and question their own beliefs! I was pro choice until my thirties, upon educating myself more and experiencing pregnancy myself my opinion drastically changed! Never stop questioning!

[@joyceblooms]

I appreciate that you’re open to the other side.

[@jakenbake9878]

To be pro life one simply has to understand 5th grade level science and to understand what murder is. No religion required to be against killing the most innocent among us.

[@tonyabrown7796]

It is black and white. Is it ok to intentionally kill a baby or is it not?

[@aspreedacore]

@@tonyabrown7796the problem is the “Less than language” they convinced people it’s not a life with their rhetoric

[@adririos9789]

One of the best interviews on this topic! I’d like to add my own experience with my unplanned pregnancy (while having a Paragard IUD). Planned parenthood was the only place that had the vaginal ultrasound in my area because of 2020 restrictions. I didn’t know if the baby was an ectopic pregnancy so I was freaking out. BEFORE finding out if it was viable or not, planned parenthood only gave me information on terminating the pregnancy. All of the staff that I saw was in obvious shock when I said I wanted my baby. I am so thankful that I was the person I had been at that point in time because I was not going to be persuaded to end that life. My son will be 4 this Christmas. He is my literal gift.

[@seekingtruthandcompassion1707]

I am on paragaurd I heard pregnancy was pretty rare on it 😅

[@seekingtruthandcompassion1707]

I have experienced one of the areas they touched on which was the heart issues in pregnancy these where not diagnosed until after the delivery which interestingly was spontaneous labour at 31 weeks i think my body just couldn't hack it anymore and birthed my twins because it knew it couldn't handle anymore ! Would of been nice to hear some stats on how maby babies survive chemo inside the mother

[@alisie2487]

​@@seekingtruthandcompassion1707look up Jade Devis, she delivered a live baby after chemo treatments❤

[@miva644]

@@adririos9789 wonderful story of Choice.

[@liamjames5470]

​@@seekingtruthandcompassion1707twins are always born Early. It's not because the body can't take it it's because it's to dangerous for both babies to go over a specific amount of time.

[@violingirl1349]

My 7 year old daughter has Down syndrome. She’s so great! We found out at birth that she had DS as well as a heart defect (had successful heart surgery at 4.5 months old) but I am so incredibly thankful for the amazing support of all the medical professionals we dealt with at her emery-section birth. I never ONCE had anyone say anything negative about the fact that we had her, and they all went above and beyond to just state the facts (like nothing at all judgemental or condescending or anything) and give us all the support and encouragement we needed. We are so grateful…! Annie is our 4th of 5 kids and we wouldn’t have it any other way!

[@pameladowe2492]

@@violingirl1349We lived on a property out west, and when our neighbours sold their property, a new family moved in. When mum heard they had a Downs Syndrome, teenage daughter, she was keen for us to meet her. We did, she was shy, and gentle, and beautiful. We were encouraged to write to her from boarding school. One day, her mum found her packing a small suitcase, she asked her why, and Sue replied she was going to go to school with us. After that, her parents hired a governess and Sue grew into a charming, and enthusiastic young lady, ready to take the world on. I am so glad we met her!

[@Sunnybeeloved]

It’s so refreshing to watch an actual discussion! No yelling, name calling or straw manning.

[@oliviakilpatrick]

I appreciate the old school civility of this conversation. What a breath of fresh air.

[@milktea9838]

You haven’t seen old school conversations😂

[@aspreedacore]

@@milktea9838correct we are witnessing a discussion between highly academic learned individuals, old School discussion will trigger all social media censorship’s at once🤣

[@rachelmeade9307]

“Sounds really horrible how you say it.” Yeah because it is.

[@alexandralove3406]

So often pro-choice people don’t want you being direct or specific about what abortion is. That’s why so many told Ellen it’s harmful to even have this debate. They would rather people not know what they’re doing when they choose to have an abortion.

[@iheartjbgccb]

When she said no I am pro CHOICE and the other woman said yeahh to have an abortion which terminates life

[@IWasOnceAFetus]

​@@alexandralove3406 Couldn't agree more.

[@HumanDignity10]

Pro-life doctors, because they don’t use abortion as a default, have found ways of providing higher quality care to mothers. Imagine if all doctors did this.

[@jesscstephens]

Exactly! When abortion no longer becomes an option, greater resources, advice, and health care exists!

[@kats.6404]

Same for doctors who are against IVF, they make so many more advanced in helping women work through fertility issues so that they can actually carry their own offspring.

[@ParteraQuisqueyana]

💯

[@andreasiversen6141]

​​@@jesscstephens wow.... US is so much behind... we did this MANY years ago in EU... but found out, that abortion was an important tool for doctors. We are thriving over here

[@liliarosales1961]

Beautifully said!

[@sararf1021]

The midwife uses the "mental distress" argument or reasoning to terminate a pregnancy a lot. Being human is not pure joy all the time. Feeling pain, anxiety or anguish is an essential part of the human experience. You grow and hopefully change for the better through difficult situations. I was born with a congenital disease that caused hardship in my life and I am thankful to my mother and father for their faith and unconditional love. God bless the pro-life doctor! I pray that the midwife becomes closer to God and grows in her faith and chooses not to continue to perform abortions any longer.

[@miva644]

@@sararf1021 I think you and that OBGYN are hypocrites because last time I checked God drowned how many babies in the flood.

[@miva644]

@@sararf1021 Remind me again how many babies were in the flood God the guy you worship created 🧐.

[@snow5962]

There is a difference between the creator making a decision to end life and His creation deciding to end another creation of His. If you were the creator would you approve of one of your creations killing another creation of yours? ​@@miva644

[@GothicGali]

They probably gotta keep me in a mental hospital if I got pregnant then lol. It would drive me so nuts that I’d be a danger to myself. Pregnancy, for me, not anyone else (to be clear), is my worst nightmare. Too many changes, too many demands. I’d rather adopt.

[@4651adri]

Women are not incubators. You're condemning a future person to a life with an absent or resented mother.

[@Moonlightearthling]

The first podcast changed my mind from pro choice to pro life 💛 thank you!!

[@ZippyDooDa435]

Maybe look into pro-life vs abolitionist. Abolitionists Rising is a great channel!

[@beyonceLVR1]

U have a weak mind

[@kholmes918]

That wonderful OBGYN is the reason my two boys are here. So thankful for her!

[@kholmes918]

@@mysteryfan89 very kind, considerate and understanding. Wanted to help me find the root cause to my infertility and she was successful!

[@nyart66]

The fact that most of these pro choice medical professionals didn’t want to debate says it all. And I appreciate the pro choice midwife for engaging, she definitely appreciates life which is rare on the pro choice side

[@alyssamichelle1207]

My thoughts exactly!

[@miva644]

@@nyart66 Because they have better thing's to do than deal with religious people.

[@emmagillette6249]

Saying that pro choice people don't appreciate life is such a wild thing to say 😂

[@nyart66]

@@emmagillette6249 it is wild. More and more people okay with abortion until and after birth, claiming insects have more worth than pre-born humans, students on college campuses biting off fetal models in protest, people dressing up as abortion pills at marches. I wish it wasn’t this wild.

[@emmagillette6249]

@@nyart66 I'm sorry, but no one wants post birth abortions. I can't engage with the rest of your comment because you gave the plot away by using such an absurd and factually false example red to you by propaganda. It's quite clear that you haven't engaged in a good faith discussion with a pro choice person, or listened to pro choice content makers, so you have a picture of a satanic baby eater in your mind when you think of a pro choice woman.

[@curiousdisciple]

Monique is such a gift to healthcare and Philadelphia. as a nursing student who runs a pro life group in a very pro choice place, thank you Monique for being an example of a medical professional who values the human dignity of all your patients

[@skylermorrin341]

My friend was diagnosed with breast cancer while she was pregnant and she has a perfect little girl who was growing in her the entire time she had chemo and fought her cancer. She never once considered ending her pregnancy. That little girl is a blessing and mom is cancer free❤️

[@katierucker2870]

I love hearing stories like these!

[@Kelleycama]

Thank you so much for having these conversations on your channel, Ellen. The last pro life vs. pro choice conversation really changed my life. I’m now a pro-life advocate after sadly getting an abortion myself at 19. I didn’t know the truth of what abortion was at that time. My heart breaks for so many women still getting abortions 💔

[@miva644]

@@Kelleycama Question do you want abortion to be banned.

[@lieutenantbl4ck]

thank you for sharing. I hope youve been able to heal

[@a-sinnersavedbygrace415]

​@@miva644 I do!!!

[@NiaLaLa_V]

@@miva644 I was a liberal for 20 years and I fought for all of your causes. None of you fought for me, or even showed me basic respect. Conservatives did, though. I will never vote with you again, I don't care if they take your abortion rights away. I am 40 and going through menopause, doesn't affect MY LIFE. And I care about my life as much as you care about your life.

[@ElizabethS519]

I have had a change of heart myself. What was true for me and what I think is true for a lot of people is that I didn't really understand the details of what abortion is or the development of the fetus. I think a lot of this is education, most people have no idea what they are supporting.

[@tressahoffman7347]

When I was 22 years old I was scared and went to planned parenthood. The guy I was with was using heroin and I was scared and didn’t feel I had support. When I went to planned parenthood they made it sound like it was this quick fit. But it’s been over 10 years and the guilt and shame I carry brings me to tears just thinking about it. I wish they would have told you how painful it would be emotionally. The feeling of not wanting to live and the shame is still a constant battle. It was an early 7 weeks into pregnancy but it’s still very hard. This is a great video and appreciate you Ellen for having this platform for people to see. 💖

[@miva644]

@@tressahoffman7347 Question do you want abortion to be banned from other women because of your regret.

[@kaitlinb361]

@@miva644seriously? Get out of here troll. She may or may not. But what she said is she wished she would have been counselled about the emotional trauma she would possibly experience. She is not alone in what she feels. Lots of women have regrets because they were sold a “quick fix” and told it would be rainbows and butterflies. If we were actually more open about this topic women could make an informed decision. Not just using shadow terms to hide what abortion is and DENY the extreme emotional pain MANY women experience after abortion.

[@begreat1542]

​@mivasadl644 I'd like to know the answer to this question, too. She experienced it... Good question.

[@miva644]

@@kaitlinb361 Wow getting trigged by a question that wasn't even directed towards you.

[@Droppin_up_productions]

@@miva644So why did you ask the question?

[@kendallmarie6655]

The fact that women are not educated on our cycles: follicular phase, ovulation, luteal phase, and how these phases literally dictate our energy levels and behavior is really sad. Being in my late 20's I am just now figuring this out, and it's answered a lot of questions for me about why I act in certain ways, have certain cravings, are more tired, etc depending on the phase.

[@lquinn410]

Late 30s, have 3 kids and I was an LPN for several years. Obviously, I knew when I had my period, and eventually figured out ovulation, but I'm just now realizing all the other stuff affected by our cycle.

[@aspreedacore]

My goodness when the Bible says dwell with them according to knowledge it MEANS IT😮

[@ShailynLMT]

I appreciate this conversation and how respectful it is. I am a former pro-choice-er, I recognize how messy the legislative landscape is in this context. I finally came to the realization that if I believe in human rights like the fundamental right to life, that that has to extend to all humans regardless of their stage of development, their level of dependency for care, their cognitive ability, and so on. Otherwise, how can we just assign an arbitrary number of weeks to assign equal value to a human? It's a slippery slope that I wasn't willing to be on anymore. I say this as a mother who was faced with the difficult situation of having been pregnant with a medically complex child who only lived for two months. I have often wondered if it would have been more merciful to have ended his life before he was born. I now know that there was no knowing how long he'd live or how easy or difficult that life would have been, so ending his life before he could have been held, sung to, prayed over, etc. couldn't ever be considered more merciful. If I could have known how exactly his surgeries would have gone and known how long ye would live I may have made the decision for comfort care instead of complex surgeries but still..... I couldn't have known. The torture I would feel if I'd chosen to terminate would be much worse than the grief I feel in losing him.

[@iammr.h82]

I think that it has a lot to do with the vitriol and rhetoric surrounding the topic. Even if you are not a believer, once egg and sperm meet you have conception. Meaning that there is a human on the way to be born. There are different things naturally that can prevent a child from being born. One of those things should not be intentional harm to the fetus. I agree with you. If you believe in "Human Rights" how do you reconcile with killing the most innocent. We are not talking about the margins here. We know terrible things happen. However, I dont believe in forcing someone that was forcibly impregnated to not have a choice. The way the conversation has been positioned in the media and by politicians has people confused and at odds with the truth about medical care. And just because i am a Man does not mean I dont have an opinion. I am a father of 3 Heavenly children and 2 that I love on every day.

[@beyonceLVR1]

But then y does a fetus life trump the mothers?

[@ShailynLMT]

@@beyonceLVR1 it doesn't trump hers, but neither does hers trump the human she's gestating. Both mother and child have equal value and should both have an equal right to life.

[@ShailynLMT]

@iammr.h82 Thank you for your reply. It infuriates me that people think it's okay to remove men and fathers from the conversation. Last I checked, you still need both a female's egg and a male's sperm to produce the genetic code for a whole human. And just as I don't condone fathers abandoning their responsibilities, neither do I condone a mother, not even considering the father when she chooses to terminate "their" child. And yes, I know that there are many cases when it is a desperate mother who's being abused, etc. But there are probably just as many cases where the father would step up and is devastated that their child's life was ended. And to your point about being forcibly impregnated, I'm always a little torn because the abortion won't undo the trauma or the hurt she sustained, and the fruit of her womb is not the criminal. Even if there's a concession made for these types of situations, abortion advocates won't concede that the majority of abortions are for reasons of convenience and maybe shouldn't be so prevalent. The problem is heavily on the culture.

[@sarahockers5050]

My neice is adopted. Her birth mother is a single mom in her 40s, has 4 previous children who she is successfully patenting and when she got pregnant again decided that she could not raise the child on her own. She bravely chose adoption and both families are so thankful for her difficult decision. I am sure it was not an easy road, but she has given us the most amazing gift!

[@lindseybrowning6693]

Wow!! That us so beautiful and e couraging!! Praise God for your sweet niece!!

[@miva644]

@@sarahockers5050 Wonderful story of choice.

[@erinmcevilly]

My biological grandmother on my mom’s side is the example that the pro-choice guest gave for the woman in her 40s who was married and found herself pregnant, already having 5 other children. She was married and they didn’t have the resources to take care of a 6th. She could have aborted, but instead chose life. I am so thankful for her brave choice to give my mom a chance at life and give her up for adoption. Now fast forward 65 years later, my mom is a grandmother to 10 beautiful human beings that wouldn’t be here today if it weren’t for my grandmother choosing life. Was she worried about what “society would think”. Probably. But is that worth the loss of not one life, but generations of lives? I think the answer is obvious.

[@melanienygaard273]

My great grandmother had an abortion during the Great Depression because she didn’t think they could handle another child. They ended up having another child later (three living children), and regretted that abortion to the day she died at age 90.

[@StephanieBennion]

Amen!! ❤

[@elizabethbrink476]

Actually surprised that the obgyn is pro life and midwife is pro choice. Great conversation

[@miva644]

@@elizabethbrink476 The OBGYN clearly pro life because of her religion which I find hypocritical considering God has a history of doing bad things to children.

[@madisyngerard7209]

It's rare to find anyone in the medical world of pregnancy and birth who is pro life.

[@miva644]

@@madisyngerard7209 Not really just search religious medical professionals and you'll find them since that's typically why their pro life .

[@madisyngerard7209]

@@miva644 I mean the average pregnant woman looking for an obgyn or midwife will be hard pressed to find one who is prolife, at least where I live.

[@miva644]

@@madisyngerard7209 I would say go to those pregnancy center's but most of the worker's aren't even medically trained.

[@sonog721]

This was so refreshing to see two people that disagree be so great to each other. We need more of this

[@thesquinch3773]

Just wanted to share a little context around chemotherapy and pregnancy - you were discussing whether chemo will ALWAYS kill a baby in utero, or if there is a chance they will survive. The long & short is that it depends on the type of chemo, the intensity, and the timing of treatment. I was diagnosed with Hodgkin’s lymphoma in my second trimester of pregnancy and I luckily was able to delay treatment until after baby was born - HOWEVER there would have been a safe chemo option that wouldn’t have killed baby (ABVD) as long as it was administered after the first trimester. We discussed this option in detail and had my cancer been further along, I would have opted for it, knowing baby would still be safe. There are a few chemo regimens that have been tested during pregnancy and are overall safe (with only small risks to baby). So no, chemo will not always kill baby. Truly depends. Make sure to always talk to your doctors and get ALLLL the info before making any decisions! Just wanted to share :)

[@yesorno1768]

I really appreciate you sharing this! People need this information!

[@taviagustafson]

I was diagnosed with Hodgkins Lymphoma while not pregnant, went through 6 months of ABVD chemo, reached remission, then 2 months later, found out I was pregnant! ABVD chemo is very forgiving for reproduction and I know women in my cancer group that went through it while pregnant like you and gave birth to healthy, happy babies! Thank you for sharing, hope you and your baby are doing well fellow “lymphomie” 😊

[@Panazoniac]

I was 19 when I had an abortion. I'm 54 now. That abortion is the single largest regret of my life. It was a cowardly and selfish decision and has had karmic reprocussions. Mother Teresa said there can be no peace on earth as long as we condone the violence of mother against her unborn child. I agree with her.

[@aimee657]

Thank you for sharing your story. Jesus did die for your sin so you don’t have to live in guilt. Use your story but live in freedom.

[@stella9624]

God loves you. He can forgive you if you place your trust in Him and you can then forgive yourself too. I wish you peace and send you love.

[@Panazoniac]

@stella9624 thank you Sister. I turned my life over to Him years ago. He doesn't take away consequences, but he redeems everything. 🙏🏻✝️🕊

[@miva644]

@@Panazoniac Mother Teresa also denied medication to sick people because she believed suffering made them closer to God.

[@MHolla-f1j]

Same here. Biggest regret of my life.

[@starbursttwister4994]

My friend carried and delivered a healthy baby while she was on chemotherapy for cancer. Both she and the baby are doing fantastic.

[@MotherOf13]

I was so confused that the Dr said she's never seen a baby survive chemo in utero. Did she mean just in the first trimester?

[@maryljcanary]

​@@MotherOf13 I think she did mean early first trimester, as that is when the baby's cells are splitting like crazy and growing. Chemotherapy interrupts that new growth. A first trimester baby likely couldn't survive.

[@annashepard6337]

With regard to the questions asked by the pro-choice guest, (concerning single women who are poor and lacking access to resources)...I am she and I had two children alone (with others in the house) while working part time, going to school full time, in need of food and shelter and everything in between. It is doable. I am living proof. I gained a bachelor's and graduate degree...and finally, full time work in a time that was a very bad economy. I raised my last two children alone, and today, they are in college on full academic scholarships. It has NEVER been easy, but SOOOO worth it. I wouldn't trade my children for anything in the world. They are my light and joy!

[@miketisdale7341]

Thank you for loving your children! Amen and amen! Another good addition to this situation is to ask a disagreeing person the following: If a single mother of a two-year-old and a three month old suddenly loses her job, has her car repo’d, and has no future financial upside, should she be allowed to kill one of her children to make finances less scarce? Both of her children? Same principle. Financial difficulty is not an allowance to commit the unjustified taking of an innocent unborn child’s life.

[@famida8560]

I agree that the health professionals presentation of the abnormality makes a big impact. I work with children with special needs and one parent told me when she got her daughters diagnosis of Down syndrome… the Dr said.. “you are so lucky…. You’re about to have the most beautiful life with this child” he was right. This little girl is the perfect image of love and her parents and anyone who has the privilege of meeting her couldn’t agree more. For people who are pro abortion, I would recommend you spending more time with the special needs community. There is a beautiful presence among these people that I couldn’t even describe with words.

[@mamuklutze6474]

My staff member and I called them angels!!😊 whenever there is in our office we say " there is an angel here" 😊

[@lissaharre]

My nephew is special needs. He participates in a special Olympics softball organization. The men and women that play in these tournaments are amazing. It is truly a privilege to watch them play ball. I enjoy it more than going to a MLB game.

[@nalaniloe3706]

I’m a twenty year old. Found out I was pregnant and was horrified. “I’m not financially ready” most people aren’t. “I haven’t finished school” so many people do with children. “I’m too young” so many people have had children younger. “I’m not ready” most people never feel ready for motherhood, it’s a complex wave of emotions. Abortion has been fed to us as a quick and easy fix. I unfortunately had a miscarriage and I was beyond heart broken despite me being so scared. That was my baby and will forever be my baby. Abortion, miscarriage, having the baby, no matter what you decide there is only AFTER the baby. There is no way to undo it. I knew that in my heart, if I had an abortion, it wouldn’t magically fix anything, mentally I’d deteriorate because my innocent baby had already come into existence and there was no way to go back on that. No matter what you say to argue pro-choice, individuals will always have their own thoughts about it. This journey is yours to make alone, and all your choices are only yours and no one else’s and you have to live with them. I know all the pro-choice arguments, I presented them all to myself and tried to comfort myself that the only thing that matters is I’m not ready, but in my head I’d fight with myself and in my heart I knew it was absolutely wrong and that I needed to be brave and find a way like everyone else, because I knew I’d love my baby and the bond was already so strong. Feeling scared and unready in my opinion isn’t a reason to kill an innocent baby, as someone who was put in the difficult situation myself and forced to make a choice. edit: I do want to clarify I made the choice to choose life. But i lost my baby due to a miscarraige, so in the end I guess what I chose didn't matter. But I was still faced with the situation/dilemma of choosing life or abortion, and I chose life.

[@dannomedic]

I'm really sorry you went through that. I hope you can forgive yourself. I will pray for your mental well-being. Thank you for your statement of regret that might help others not to make the same decision.

[@Dmd265]

I’m very sorry for your loss. You are and always will be a mother and that’s something that can never be taken from you.

[@Dmd265]

@@dannomedicShe didn’t do anything wrong. She did not lose her baby by choice.

[@hiashleykelly]

Sending you love 💖

[@dannomedic]

Thank you for letting me know. I misunderstood her comment. I didn't pay attention to the quotation marks.

[@bethanyheyde805]

This was the most civil and respectful discussion on such a divisive topic that I’ve ever seen. Both sides were represented so well! Thank you for this video!

[@ivylagrone8632]

I think this ObGyn is amazing. She's absolutely right on every single topic and situation. Mental health consequences of abortion have been known for decades. Ignoring it is vastly detrimental to the woman.

[@housecry]

This was wonderful. Your well prepared and presented questions, your choice of guests, your respectful tone and calmness, the peaceful setting and ambiance. This is only the second time I've listened to a calm, rational and honest conversation on the topic of abortion. However, the strange thing is I felt at peace during the entire conversation.Thank you for modeling a civil, respectful and gentle conversation. I hope Dr. Monique and Lynn carry on their conversation. Thank you.

[@jacedenny7160]

Probably the best debate I've ever seen. So respectful and informative.

[@milo_thatch_incarnate]

"It sounds really horrible how _you_ say it" is basically the summation of this whole debate. Because it IS horrible. Those who promote infanticide (abortion) just have a myriad of clever ways to describe it as something else to they don't have to hear it described as it _actually is._ _Even in the minuscule number of cases_ of genuine risk to the life of the mother, and the baby HAS to be removed, then the first option should be to deliver the baby, and try to SAVE it!! There's no ethical reason to not do that. Use an artificial womb to try to help the premature baby grow to full term. There is NO REASON to _destroy_ it first, and THEN deliver it. They COULD try to deliver it alive, and KEEP it alive. And the fact that most abortion clinics won't do that tells you everything you need to know about their morals. 🤷‍♀ I understand that the "pro-choice" woman is trying to argue in good faith on behalf of at-risk mothers... but she _should_ be confronted with the reality of _exactly_ what she's _actually_ arguing for: _the unnecessary _*_dismembering_*_ of a child._ That this is NOT just about the mother's life -- it's about the child's LIFE as well. Healthcare "options" should not include the _unnecessary_ dismemberment of children.

[@dariann1661]

@@milo_thatch_incarnate I agree but even under the best circumstances anything before 24 weeks is a very difficult and also expensive process with a not so high success rate

[@milo_thatch_incarnate]

@@dariann1661 ... is a child's life not worth that?? Worth _any_ expense? Maybe we should stop using a single cent of taxpayer dollars to fund abortion clinics and instead use that _same money_ to fund artificial wombs. That may not be a perfect solution either, and I'm sure there are other solutions, but the _point_ is, _murder_ should not even be an OPTION. We figure out some other way!

[@Ch3lRae]

Very well said!

[@alisie2487]

​@dariann1661 now apply that mindset to a child outside of the womb it becomes an unthinkable excuse.

[@eindhovendegekste168]

The pro-choice crew has to dehumanise the unborn with wordgames.

[@mamuklutze6474]

Dr Ruberu is an amazing compassionate Dr. I saw another interview that she did which I was impressed by her knowledge not only on abortion but on post partum depression. The niece if one of my staff member/ friend was suffering from severe postpartum depression to the point that she couldn't be left alone in fear that she may harm herself or the baby.After weeks of this ongoing terrible situation I called Dr Ruberu' office in Philadelphia ( we live in Pittsburgh) . The front desk person after I explained the situation told me that Ruberu was fully booked for weeks. I pleaded for even a tele med appointment. She said that she would. I know that Dr Ruberu is well renowned and very busy YET she called my friends niece and helped her out by overnighting a must needed med to her. WOW!! what a doctor!! I was so touched and my friend's niece within days was back to herself and could enjoy motherhood and her life with her family. I pray that the Lord continues to bless this God fearing woman and enlarge her territory. What a heart for people!!❤❤❤

[@mattyw274]

Stright up goddess !!! WOw This is what healing looks like !!!

[@ajax2463]

Wow this is so powerful! Glory to God. This is beautiful

[@y2ksurvivor]

Wow. Props to you, what an amazing friend.

[@mamuklutze6474]

@@ajax2463 Glory to GOD ALONE!!

[@mamuklutze6474]

@@y2ksurvivor really what an amazing doctor right! So much compassion from her. Thank you 🙏🏽

[@forlife84]

Man, I wish Dr. Monique were my OBGYN. I'm a pro-life Catholic, and I would have loved having this woman's support through my GD pregnancies. She's so knowledgable and offers so much hope. The midwife literally had no solid facts or reasoning to back up her position other than pro-choice slogans like "my body, my choice." My problem with that is your baby is not your body. Your baby has it's own unique set of DNA and is its own person. To her credit, she was very open and willing to listen and seems like a person who genuinely wants what's best for women but is simply misguided. Sadly, being misguided can have very serious consequences.

[@angelicearthling]

all the words and phrases that the midwife uses to avoid saying "kill the baby in the womb" is pretty crazy.

[@MsPants1632]

The softening of the term is what keeps this in business. And that’s exactly what abortion is. A big business $$$. They work very hard to keep all the details hidden and promote using soft terms like “pro choice” instead of “pro abortion”. Wrap it in a pretty bow…

[@miva644]

@@MsPants1632 You do realize PP offers hormones STD and STI treatments and prevention and birth control exams for breast cancer and gynecology visits.

[@MsPants1632]

@@miva644 I do… what’s the point?

[@kaitlinb361]

@@miva644at how many clinics? You should watch the video of Lila Rose calling hundreds of planned parenthood asking for those services. They hand out birth control and give abortions only at 99% of their facilities.

[@Reynahi-y3w]

@“angelicearthling”, while your comment is spot on, you’re not an Incarnated Angel. Please stop lying online. Being an incarnated angel is rare, and there are not many here, and you are not one of them. Everyone thinks that they’re an incarnated angel nowadays, and well, that’s just not true.

[@linnaeadominguez9898]

We need more conversations like this. You are a blessing Dr. Rubero!

[@DevinMarks-og2qt]

I absolutely love the debates you host!!! I would love to see a pro Vax v anti Vax debate

[@victoriac9440]

Great conversation. Let’s not forget that our action have consequences, and women who are not ready/want a pregnancy abstinence is an option to avoid being in a situation they can’t/want

[@aprilmoon5330]

Dr. Ruberu! You are someone to look up to. So quick to respond, so efficiently explained, so relevant. So smart. Respect!

[@Mrs.RachealDugger]

1:29:46 this whole oh every situation is different excuse is getting old. Every situation is different when a murder is committed, but it’s still deemed murder under the law. Even if the person is mentally unwell, even if they were poor, no matter what weapon they used… now those factors are taken into consideration when deciding on the punishment for that crime, but it’s still a crime. Abortion is still killing an innocent life no matter what the circumstances were. And in the United States we have the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Every human has the right to life! When that human life is taken prematurely no matter the situation, it is robbing that human of their right to life.

[@biancavelasquez2677]

This is one of the best adult conversations I ever listened to thanks for keeping it classy ladies 😊

[@brookmontes8800]

Dr Monique is incredible! Absolutely blown away with her responses. Love how much education and specific scenarios were presented during this debate.

[@pamelarogers8897]

Kudos to the ladies for having such a civil, honest, and informative discussion. And you Ellen Fisher you are a phenomenal moderator. I am looking forward to hearing more from you.

[@ClareWiley]

It says a lot that you couldn’t even find a pro-choice OBGYN willing to debate it. It says a lot about their position.

[@SJ-ru4ej]

A lot of people on that side don't truly stand by what they believe. Deep down, a lot of them know it's wrong and has gone WAY too far in today's day and age.

[@miva644]

@@ClareWiley Because their busy saving women coming from state's with abortion bans to get the medical care they want.

[@Mandy87Marie]

Most OBGYNs are pro choice, at least I hope so

[@cherryrush.]

​@@Mandy87Mariethey might be pro-choice but a huge majority of them don't provide abortions. I think 85% in the US

[@y2ksurvivor]

​@@Mandy87Marieyou really need to read more.

[@aninayouroukova3832]

When my mom was pregnant, she experienced a very severe bleed. The doctors were sure that she was miscarrying, but when they looked, there was still a heartbeat. All the doctors were completely baffled at the fact. They immediately gave her medications and she stayed in the hospital for a couple of days. My sister is now 28 years old and our family's miracle!

[@aninayouroukova3832]

That was in 1996 in Bulgaria. There is absolutely NO EXCUSE why this type of care is not available in a country like the USA.

[@jackiedoesntcare]

These women are so respectful of each other and its really nice to see two people willing to talk!

[@ericalagogiannis8331]

One sided

[@nicholelucero6621]

The OBGYN has so much grace

[@miva644]

@@nicholelucero6621 Please she's clearly pro life because of her religion.

[@nicholelucero6621]

100% agree, when you serve and fear a holy God you protect the innocent. And he gives a peace that surpasses all understanding.

[@undergrace1808]

Agreed

[@TrentonMabry1]

@@miva644all of her points were rooted in medicine and science…… While you had the pro-choice individual finding it difficult to determine when the baby is alive and conflating viability with humanness. Which is terrifying considering she knows better as someone in the medical field.

[@miva644]

@@TrentonMabry1 She was clearly biased also I Iike to see her debate against a pro choice OBGYN .

[@JoyNoelle.]

We live in a fallen world when it needs to be said, “don’t kill your baby”

[@andreagreen1467]

This was the best and most respectful debate, or better yet discussion, that I've ever seen on this topic.

[@Cat.A1776]

What a great conversation. These women handled themselves beautifully while discussing this topic that is usually considered controversial. We need more of this respectful kind of debate shown to young women especially. Well done ladies 👏

[@NatalieF-un5vb]

It is so refreshimg to see a healthy discussion instead of the usual yelling, fast talking, straw men, interrupting, and "gotchya's".

[@swingeng]

Thank you all for your kindness to each other on this conversation and to being open to hearing from each other. We need more conversations like this.

[@grassrootedgal]

I loved how short this one was, though I could have listened for another hour or two! It just shows how articulate and full of integrity these women are. Thank you three for such an insightful conversation!

[@123lauraashley]

10 years I couldn’t see this happening, but now I can see that people’s opinions are changing. The ultrasounds that we have now and the education that is being done all over the world about what abortion really is is causing people to question whether this is actually okay. And it’s not. It’s not medically necessary, and I cannot imagine knowing that I caused the death of my own child, no matter the circumstances. I’ve had a miscarriage, and I carry zero guilt about that. I would not feel the same way if I had paid someone to end my baby’s life.

[@miva644]

@@123lauraashley I'm perfectly fine with abortion what I'm not fine with is people forcing women to give birth to a child they don't love.

[@grassrootedgal]

Exactly. That was a profound point of the OBGYN’s - the moral implication of paying somebody to intentionally end a life, no matter how small, is far far too great. It disproves that pro-lifers are concerned more with the baby’s life than the mother’s, as the mother’s conscience and spiritual salvation, however you look at it, is on the line in a very real way when we present abortion as an option.

[@lilyhernandez2349]

Thank you Ladies for showing that we can disagree on something but still be kind to each other. This is the best debate I have ever heard on this topic. If only all important issues could be discussed in this manner…Well done Ladies.

[@sarahwelsh8157]

Watch the debate on this channel between Lila Rose and a pro choice person, it’s also amazing! I think it was a couple of years ago, I watched it yesterday haha

[@mattyw274]

Yes Very refreshing. Like a breath of fresh air Grt job ellen

[@kellyronspies1457]

Pro abortion advocates always have the same line of thinking. Listening to pro life advocates always teaches me something new. This doctor is so full of joy and love, i think she can change the world

[@RachelDee]

Goes to show which side of the debate is more drowned out by propaganda for the other.

[@miva644]

@@kellyronspies1457 Nah that OBGYN doesn't fool me she's clearly pro life for religous reasons which is hypocritical considering God's done lot's of terrible thing's to children but you know that's just me.

[@joandempsey4652]

Nobody is pro abortion. It’s an horrific thing for any woman. Compassionate people have respect for the dignity of a very private difficult choice - free will is a sacred gift from God.

[@brittaho2098]

​@@joandempsey4652 God gave people free will so they could choose to follow Him and what He says, not to choose anything they want without consequences.

[@polina9466]

Then you’re in an echo chamber and clearly haven’t listened to informed opinions. Listen to mama doctor Jones

[@kindasoupie]

I work with people with disabilities as a career. Down syndrome is not the only intellectual/developmental disability out there, it’s just one of the more widely known. I work with people who have beat staff unconscious…who punch and kick, and bite literal chunks out of their peers and staff within the home, unprovoked. Your opinions might change if you were more familiar with the range of disability that comes with genetic disorders. I am grateful that there are people like me who are mostly equipped to work with these individuals. But if you were a mom and we’re faced with the decision either keep or abort early on a child who would end up this way, what would you choose? Keep in mind that wait times for placement of these individuals into care homes can get up to 10-12 YEARS. Sometimes an appropriate space never opens up in one home and you have to start the process all over again. I truly would love to hear thoughts on this. I say this as a woman who will never have an abortion.

[@miva644]

@@kindasoupie Women who have down syndrome pregnancy in my opinion should be aloud the choice to carry out the pregnancy or not because bringing a child into the world that your not gonna be committed to or protect is not a good idea in my personal opinion especially with how much care and love someone with down syndrome will need once they're born.

[@daughterofthemosthigh6869]

I don’t think what you’re describing is a disorder that they could even determine in the womb. For example my son is autistic and during pregnancy he was considered completely normal. Nothing showed in his genetic testing. Not that I would’ve chose to abort him anyways (he’s such a blessing) but I’m just saying. What you’re describing is more mental illness. These situations happen due to the fallen world we live in. We don’t live a risk free life and we aren’t given a guarantee on any situation. You can raise a perfectly “healthy” child that grows up to be a murderer or rapist. Some autistics bite and hit, but my son doesn’t. Every human being deserves a chance. There are no guarantees. We need to make decisions based on God’s wisdom and not from our own understanding.

[@raychelmcbride8965]

This is the reality. People make caring for special needs children sound so easy. Not everyone has the capacity to do it. There are also many stats on how many parents divorce after having a special needs child. It really needs to be a decision made by that family and what they can handle.

[@MotherOf13]

I have two special needs children. One goes to an adult day program and I would never wish death for any one in his program, even if they assaulted my son. My other child is autistic and I just wrote a letter to his school about a black eye he received from one student and a new bruise on his arm where he told me another student grabbed him. I don't wish these kids had never been born because they have the potential to hurt others or because they have hurt my son. Potential that is unforseen and does not diminish their own right to life. I always find it mind boggling that people in the industry of helping the mentally ill, special needs, foster children, etc are some of the strongest advocates of abortion, (not saying you are), because of their experience with those whom I listed. How they go to work and think these people would be better off dead, is truly a mystery to me.

[@Mandy87Marie]

Even with down Syndrome, there is a lot of variability. Not all of them are high functioning or free from behavioural issues

[@Star235a]

My pregnancy cured my extreme anxiety. I will be forever thankful to my baby for that.

[@AlyssaDawnWhaley]

Clicked on this so fast. I pray someday that every single obgyn/midwife would be like Monique!!! Tho I’m pro life, Lynn seems very intelligent and empathic. Great convo ❤️

[@miva644]

@@AlyssaDawnWhaley I think that OBGYN hypocritical she worship's God even though he's done terrible thing's to children.

[@miva644]

@@AlyssaDawnWhaley Remind me again how many babies were in the flood God created.

[@AlyssaDawnWhaley]

@@miva644 I don’t think humans are God, so no one should play god.

[@miva644]

@@AlyssaDawnWhaley So your defending what he did to those babies and children kinda hypocritical .

[@AlyssaDawnWhaley]

@@miva644 Just because babies die doesn’t mean we should intentionally kill them

[@dariann1661]

I find it interesting how the definition of abortion changes based on how people feel and not how it’s seen medically. If you end a pregnancy on purpose whether because you have to or not it’s still an abortion.

[@LynnWolf-f3y]

The medical definition of abortion is: the termination of a pregnancy before the fetus (actual correct medical term for a baby before it is born) is able to survive outside the womb. This can be induced medically/surgically OR can occur spontaneously. The definition does not actually change. A pregnancy that ends before a fetus is viable outside the womb is an abortion, induced or not.

[@megl6148]

Not really, an abortion removed a pregnancy from the uterus. Removing an embryo from a liver or fallopian tube is a different procedure even if the word abortion is used in each description.

[@kailaleebabineau3962]

It doesn't change based on feelings, that's ridiculous. It changes based on context and there are clarifying medical terms accordingly- spontaneous abortion is NOT the same as elective abortion, and conflating the two is just a propaganda tactic.

[@organic506]

When someone wants to play semantic games you already know they lost the debate.

[@lindseybrowning6693]

Did you notice to how she really flinchs when the ob accidentally says kill the mom but is so stoic when talking about the death if the baby. It's chilling.. I was pro choice.. but praise the lord!! He had changed my heart with truth.

[@jenna_kv]

This was a fascinating discussion. I have never heard anyone explain the pro-life stance more powerfully, eloquently, and humbly than Dr. Ruberu. So thankful for both Dr. Ruberu and NP Lynn Wolf agreeing to come together for this conversation. Ellen had phenomenal questions!

[@Musiclover69]

This is BYFAR the best opposite sides discussion on abortion I've watched and didn't end up hating the pro choice person. So many pro choice women are "me me me" and come off as being so selfish. She definitely has a softness and open mindless about her and even with her "feminist" stance. I, myself have had 3 abortions....when I was 16/17....not willingly at all and knew I was ending life after the first one..by 2 and 3 I was a numb shell going thru the motions of life. I am now 55 and have gone thru intense therapy and post abortion group therapy. The regret I have lived has been a huge cross to bear...especially being the mother of 2 now and realizing had I made a different decision in my teens that my 2 children now would not be here. Great discussion!

[@mattyw274]

God bless u❤ Keep truckin learnin and lovin I have mental issues too. Ljfe is tuff We gotta stick together

[@patriciag6260]

I’m pro life, and I lived the first debate! Can’t wait to watch this!

[@patriciag6260]

Loved**

[@ZippyDooDa435]

Maybe check out pro-life vs abolitionist. Abolitionists rising is a great channel!

[@patriciag6260]

Thank you for the suggestion!

[@susanbroussard6785]

My first pregnancy, I had bleeding and there wasn’t a heartbeat when they looked with ultrasound. The doctor told me I was miscarrying and recommended a d&c but I chose to wait and I have a very healthy 17 year old son who is about to graduate high school. I am so thankful I didn’t do what my doctor recommended. ❤ There should be a way for Mothers to be able to reach the “community” that is discussed though because although I personally have close family that helped us while adding to our family, sometimes they weren’t available (or in their opinion I didn’t need help) and there seems to still be a stigma for Moms to ask for help when their significant other isn’t pulling their weight throughout the process or when the new Mom doesn’t have a significant other to help. The view points on what your significant other should be helping you with during these times in your life still need improvement. There should also be more accountability on the males side of pregnancy…

[@amyoppenheim2711]

Such an incredible conversation! I want to be able to have clear points when discussing this topic with other people and completely full of grace! This video was excellent!!!

[@theellenfisherpodcast]

im so glad you enjoyed it and found it helpful for you!!

[@asheeasmith]

This pro life doctor has said so many beautiful things in this video! Unbelievable

[@benedictlegreid8173]

I love the sheer compassion, humanity, and respect with which the pro life obgyn speaks in this video. This is how this conversation should be held.

[@DillonTalks]

If anyone has had to abort their baby due to maternal health, please know that the comments you’re reading of people who condemn your choice should not dictate how you feel about yourself. I had an abortion this summer and have been crying every day since. I relive birthing him and holding him daily. I look at photos of my baby and sniff his little hat to still smell him. I was not willing to abandon my living toddler to continue a pregnancy that would have ended in suffering and possible death (including my own). My baby literally was missing parts of his brain. If I died carrying him to term and he somehow survived, my support system is too small to have cared for him. And my living daughter would not have a mother. If you have been in that same position, I see you and I am witness to your grief. The grief is all consuming. If they tell you that you killed your child or you murdered your child, look them in the eye and say okay, “I hear you and I acknowledge your belief. I am my baby’s mother and I live with my choice and your words offer me nothing.” And let it go. Do not give them power over you. Do not add to your suffering. I see you. I’m so sorry for your pain. The grief is so intense, my living child is the only thing keeping me anchored to this life.

[@melissacondon]

Thank you to Ellen and your thoughtful, articulate guests!

[@chowder2260]

Hands down THE BEST debate on prolife prochoice I have seen out there. Truly. Most of the debates or discussions you see are either men (who do not have a uterus, therefore, have not faced the dilemma of prolife vs prochoice) or college students against activists. These women are not only mothers (who have gone through pregnancies) but are medical professionals who have a deeper and expert understanding of what the two choices actual mean and their consequences. They are people who have literally been in the trenches. This debate should be shared over and over again. I have incredible respect for both women and both of their views but really want to highlight the honesty of Lynn Wolf. She may be the only pro choicer who is honest about what is actually in the womb - which is so incredibly brave. I'm so thankful for this conversation. Congratulations, Ellen Fisher podcast. This was incredible.

[@HuskysMommy]

I wish my OBGYN was this thorough. I had 2 miscarriages in 2013. I got a D&C for my first miscarriage. Before they brought me into the operating room, I had to sign paperwork about what will be done with the remains. Either the hospital can dispose of them, or they can be sent to a funeral home. I had no idea the funeral home was an option, and it was too late for me to arrange something like that because I was about to go into surgery. I still think about that to this day. I wish I knew my options. I did name them, which helped some. l love you Harper and Taylor 👼 👼

[@medelinmalbe163]

Dr Monique Ruberu - You are such a wonderfull person! God bless You.

[@billiehanne1205]

Maybe best convo ever on the topic. I agree with Dr. Ruberu, but I feel sometimes she is already offering the solution before fully validating the concern of the the pro choice party. Then the conversation becomes mental and she tries to persuade without emotional connection to what is truly being said. I also feel she paints a rosy picture of community but people who are depressed for example really are sometimes not able to connect to community. Still I think it is AMAZING this meeting took place! I hope they meet again and move even closer to into the topic together. ❤❤❤

[@suziew5447]

I agree with everything Dr. Monique Ruberu says in this interview. Thank you.

[@TheMareMare22]

I was a 5th year PhD student when my husband and I got pregnant. We were so excited! Being a graduate student, I had to use the student health clinic to confirm the pregnancy before they would refer me to an OBGYN. I walked in and they asked me if I wanted more information on abortion options. I wanted to throw up at the thought of someone talking like that about the baby we loved dearly already. This day and actually having our daughter changed me from pro-choice to pro-life. The creation of life is a miracle to be celebrated regardless of anything.

[@kristalenders5246]

Obviously having a conversation in a respectful, open and passionate way is possible. Thank you.

[@mommybreakdown]

Thank you for the educational conversation between two professionals. Correct me if I’m wrong, but after listening to the podcast I think we all believe these 3 things: 1. Children deserve a loving and safe home, grown by a mother that is healthy & capable of caring for them both in the womb and out of the womb. The child also deserves a society that will support the mother. 2. The mother’s life should come first in law, but if a mother chooses to put her life at risk to continue a pregnancy, that is her choice. 3. Avoiding unwanted pregnancies is the most important goal. The hard part is the “how.” It seems like the pro-life camp says abstinence is the answer and the pro-choice camp says education is the answer. Killing babies or forcing women to continue unwanted pregnancies are not the answers. We all agree that neither is ideal. Thank you, Ellen, for your hard work. We can all grow by listening and learning. No one person has all the answers and science continues to offer more insight into decision-making as both a society and an individual. ❤

[@LynnWolf-f3y]

@@mommybreakdown well said!

[@4651adri]

Underrated comment 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@mark-be9mq]

I don't think that todays pro choice is education is answer, but abortion is the answer, all 9 mths. Pro Life seems more engaged in 'educational' or conversation at least around abortion. Going on media, college & public areas to discuss Life issues in conversation. But few Pro choice like the midwife, who are using conversation & education abt the issue. I mostly see abortion in any case or your wrong. I don't hear any recent Pro choice advocat, voice or politician make a stand, speech, or policy calling for abortion w/any type of limitation or boundry? At 1st, 2nd trimester and / or for r*pe? Just don't hear it anymore.

[@WanderwithIntent]

@@mark-be9mq Pro choice believes that education on all methods to avoid pregnancy is the answer. I don't know any pro-choice person who thinks that education about contraception and family planning is not of the utmost importance. However, they see abortion as also having a choice. I went through pregnancy and I can tell you, it is not for the faint of heart. You make irreversible changes to your body, you go through an increase of many issues and complications while pregnant and during/after birth, etc. People should never be forced to sacrifice their body and possible life for any other human. Legally we cannot take your kidney to save a life, even if we know that person will die without your kidney. But when it comes to pregnancy, ohh lets contradict ourselves and force a woman to go through that will forever change her or kill her. I think she should have the choice if she wants to do that or not. I think she should be fully educated on all her options before conception and after.

[@mommybreakdown]

​@@mark-be9mq One of the biggest organizations in support of education is Advocates for Youth, which is a nonprofit organization and advocacy group based in Washington, D.C., dedicated to education, the prevention of HIV and of STDs, teenage pregnancy prevention, & youth access to condoms and contraception. To be clear, I do not support everything that this organization represents, but I am using it as an example of what you are looking for. In terms of politics, the Grinnell College National Poll in March 2022 revealed that democrats almost double the republicans as seeing this type of education as a priority. Unfortunately, there hasn't even been enough research to confirm the effectiveness of education, and like you said, a sector of pro-life people want education as well. If we all work together though, and get out of the weeds, we can reduce these unplanned pregnancies so that abortion is rarely even necessary, the ultimate goal. I hope my message wasn't too long. Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.