Is Euron the Valonqar? Featuring This Gray Area

In Deep Geek - Insight and intelligent discussion on Game of Thrones, Westworld and more.
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[@GrayArea]

Thanks for having me Robert! It was a lot of fun!!!

[@markpjf85]

GrayArea you always good gray on point too 👍

[@dropelaves]

Hey!! There were some draw jopping moments in there, would totally love to see more of you guys together! Keep it up!!!

[@ajgarcia1962]

Love both of your videos so it was a nice surprise seeing you two on here together.

[@ajgarcia1962]

Also just want to add something after listening, grey area said she doesn’t think it’s jaime because he’s on a road to redemption because of all the Kingslayer stuff, but the main reason all of that happened was because he never told anyone that he actually saved everyone’s life in Kings Landing. He never mentioned how the mad king was about to “burn them all”. With Cersei I think there will be witnesses and once he kills her, people will see that he saved everyone, like they should’ve saw the first time and everything will have come full circle with him now being looked at as a hero.

[@kennethyounger1792]

That's funny... I took Euron saying the "two good hands" line as more of a slight towards Jamie more than anything .... if i'm not mistaken (I'd have to go back and look tonight) Euron glances in Jamie's direction when he says this ... and the camera goes to Jamie's reaction after he says this ...

[@sylviasebregts2427]

You are so diplomatic when you do not agree, digging into other people's believes, questioning them, understanding them, flipping the views, contrasting interpretations. Always with respect. You might make a great therapist. You are so emphatic. And still hold on to your view without disrespecting anyone.

[@whatdisd]

He was just the best host. What a dude.

[@sandramayer9497]

What does Yara call Theon? Little Brother, like, all the time.

[@jennyr4057]

Holy crap you're right! She calls him that constantly, how did I miss this? And he is on his way to King's landing to rescue her.

[@hellomd5046]

@@jennyr4057 maybe Theon comes for Euron and Cersei

[@bearcubdaycare]

Well, that might be a redemptive arc for him.

[@ahmirahcake4970]

Why would he kill her tho?😳 I mean it’s an interesting theory. But it sounds so small if he were to kill her just because she lets say got in her way. I have to admit, that would be an absolute shocker..

[@XX-um1du]

Has Theon ever even met Cersei? It wouldn’t do justice to the integrity of the story or to Cersei’s character to die by Theon’s hands.

[@TheMinecraftHype]

Random thought: I just realised (on my read of ACOK) that the Hand of the King (Tyrion, upon my read) wears a chain of linked hands. Perhaps "wrapping his hands" doesn't mean literal hands, but the chain. Similar to Shae. Is there any other times the books mention "hands" (metaphorically), which could be used to choke?

[@Anjalena]

That's a really neat idea. My feeling, though, is that Tyrion was extremely traumatized by what he did to Shae... what happened in that room where she tried to kill him, he had to fight for his life, and he's so small that he had to put everything he had into it. And at the end, even though it was a passion-fueled event, he was mortified by what he had done. I don't imagine he even looked at her before he left that room. (coming from the TV version cuz I haven't read the books. Sorry.) But trying to imagine a real person re-committing a crime that is so heinous, when they are a good person, having it traumatize them so much that they can't even be who they were anymore (sex and booze, for example. he was always an alcoholic before but he never tried to drink himself to death!) then knowing a bit about psychology and mental trauma, I just cannot see him being able to do it again. No matter what. I don't even know if she was threatening himself or Jaime if he'd be able to do it. I dunno if that makes sense but that's where my thinking went. But I'm not a writer and have never been that great at figuring out mysteries. That was my mom. heh. But you asked if there were other hands. The vid collaborator stated that she felt Jaime might not fit due to his left hand being made of gold and not a real hand. But if you're heading into the land of "hands that aren't real hands" then again I put Jaime back into the running in first spot... but in a "protect the realm or something personally precious" (like their baby) kinda way.

[@kalibhakta8640]

Tywin. It was the necklace Tyrion strangled Shae with, and Cersei had it taken off her body and brought to her, and there are a few mentions in AFFC of her wearing it. Whoever the Valonqar is, Cersei's going to be strangled with that necklace.

[@gholamdapantaloonsniffer8218]

@@Anjalena in the books Tyrion turns in to a monster after killing both Shae and Tywin

[@samtagg8754]

In the books she doesn't try to kill him he just snaps because she betrayed him at his trial and was then sleeping with his dad she tries to convince him she really wants him and calls him her giant of Lanister and it pushes him into a blind rage

[@peglegpeete9122]

Why am I watching this??? Fire & Blood was delivered 30 minutes ago. I should be reading.

[@josephinewinter]

I've just realised that Cersei, in wearing all those high protective collars, is making the prophecy come true: she should tan her neck as brown as a nut, then she'll be safe! Holiday home in Dorne!

[@HopeUnquenchable]

LOL!

[@sarcasticsid5589]

Bruhhhhh 🤣 🤣 🤣 LMAO!!!

[@daemonblackfyre3238]

Its gonna be Arya wearing the face of Tommen. 😂😂😂

[@EdertheJust]

I dont think you're too far off. They say little brother is the key but forget to mention that Arya was a boy for a good part of her story arc. Also, she will be a faceless man. She can wear a Male face.

[@aerynsunx]

Cute. But Tommen's body was burned and his ashes were scattered into the crater of the Great Sept.

[@aligaines8476]

so the different colored eyes would be transformative, not permanent one of this/one of the other color?

[@Aewon84]

In the Forsaken chapter when Aeron sees Euron sitting on the Iron Throne there's a pale woman next to him. I believe that's a reanimated Cersei. Because of how direct it is the Valonqar prophecy completely contradicts how George R.R. Martin treats prophecies and legends, unless it's not the end of her story. I believe Euron will kill her, then have one of his henchmen (possibly a converted Aeron) reanimate her.

[@TheMinecraftHype]

Very good theory. I like the concept.

[@sophiemoconnell]

That's exactly what I thought too. I also have an idea for another level of symbolism that could be interpreted in the use of the word Valonquar. Cersei's identity as Tywin's daughter is incredibly important to her. Now, I'm very much a fan of the Cersei and Jamie Targaryen theory. Imagine if after she's lost her children, Jamie and her beauty, what would happen if Euron also told her she was the bastard daughter of the Mad King? Her identity as Tywin's daughter is possibly the thing she values above everything else. If she we're resurrected after all of this, Cersei would suffer a full-on psychological break. Not only would the knowledge give her extra ammunition to use wildfire as a weapon, but it would also explain Euron's interest in Cersei in the first place. One other extra layer of symbolism (and tinfoil) would be that Jamie could kill Cersei the second time around in his final act of redemption, having regained his ability to wield a sword.

[@HEMA90Tanin]

Nice concept! Curious who else you're going to invite. Alt-Shift-X perhaps? Would certainly sound great having you two in a video together!

[@emmanuelpressley7267]

After listening to this conversation, why couldn't it be theon? All of the literary clues still fit and in the show yaara constantly refers to him as little brother

[@ahmirahcake4970]

emmanuel Pressley why would he kill her tho? Not disputing you, just asking...

[@emrek99205]

I'm not sure that Theon knows who Cersei is, other than the queen. It would be like your relationship with Trump. Sure, yes, Theon could kill her. It is GoT, anyone could kill anyone, but Theon isn't her little brother. If that doesn't matter then it could be Lord Baelish as he was considered little brother to Caitlyn Stark, or could be any of the surviving Stark kids, or the Hound, or even Oberyn Martell. Hell, could even be her uncle Kevan f*king Lannister since he was little brother to her father Tywin. No, making every male character who has an older sibling into a possibility is just silly. The prophesy was told to Cersei so the wording has something to do with her as more than just the victim.

[@Catking19]

Crackpot theory: it’s Theon

[@whatdisd]

Tbf they said hands, not fingers

[@yensid4294]

The whole being close enough to strangle someone aspect indicates to me an intimate relationship. The best time to choke the life out of Cersai would be ahem...during an intimate time, when no guards or other people would be present. The choking would prevent her from calling out for The Mountain or her guards. That's the scenario I see most likely. The other possibility is Euron turns on Cersai, holds her prisoner in his usual way ( ick) & Jamie is forced to mercy kill her ( book not show)

[@XX-um1du]

I think it would be very redeeming for Jaime to give up the thing he loves the most (Cersei) in order to save the people. And I think it would be a great way to complete his redemption arc, because many times when he’s around Cersei he has reverted back into the smug ruthless unapologetic kingslayer persona, so it would be like finally getting rid of the worst part of himself in a way.

[@bronhaller]

One of the things I like about this video is that you show how the same piece of information can be interpreted different ways and lead to different conclusions... great discussion! I would like to add that it would be hilarious if Cersei was right all along and Tyrion is the one to kill her (he has said to people that he would like to kill her) - blindsided by GRRM because we think we’re too clever! 😂

[@minkleymcmoo5248]

It's going to be undead Tommen. Qyburn's work. :D

[@yourdashingheroidol7909]

These are all actually VERY solid points made in support of this theory.

[@MISSQYO]

Yay!!! I just LOOOOOVE this collaboration ♡ Gary you've done it again!!

[@IdaSantti]

The Red Keep was finished by Maegor, who was a younger brother? Eh? I see myself out.

[@pandorastargaryeon7410]

I’m so happy to see you both team up again!!! You both make great arguments. I think Euron and Jamie fit the little brother equally; neither one are the youngest in there family. It could be either one of them. In old Valyrian, Valonquar may not be gender specific. Do you know? Gray brought up something I have never thought about connecting before and that’s Euron’s trips and time spent in Valyria. I also took the words in the prophecy to be more literal than figurative. It was interesting to see the word “drowned” as a possible connection to Euron. I also took the two handed joke as just a joke but the recovery dragon-glass and the horn of winter as a nod to book lovers. I think it depends on knowing what to look for because you have the knowledge from the text vs. Hypotheses/educated guesses. Just to add more fuel to the Euron is the Valonquar theory.... In season 7 Cercies dress had a collar of spikes around her neck. It’s hard to choke the life out of someone if you have that on, which means she would need to know the person or not have that on... lol. As for Jaime being the Valonquar I think there is plenty of info to back this up in the books. But there is a possible foreshadowing of Tyrion doing it as well. He choked Shae to death already. In the end though I really want it to be Sansa, but I don’t think it will be. I think in the books it will be Tyrion or Jaime. Euron only wants power and glory. In the show....It could be so many people. It would be cool if it was Euron on their wedding night, or someone wearing Eurons face! Lol Great Job!!! I loved it!

[@arcanics1971]

Rickon is a little brother. Jaime could be argued to be the little brother, as he came out holding onto her ankle. I know Rickon is dead on the show but if I recall correctly in the book series Rickon is currently on Skagos.

[@2angies19]

Considering how many times Arya was mistaken for a boy, Magi the frog may have seen Arya.

[@BodyBrightWorkout]

Aren’t all younger siblings often referred to as “little brother or sister” often by the older sibling. It doesn’t say “youngest brother.” And Euron is referred to as brother in the show. Thank you, you two! I love how you analyze, provoke thought, and truly bring the story to life. You ROCK! 😊❤️❤️❤️

[@bearcubdaycare]

Daario Naharis (who speaks some low Valerian) of the Second Sons (valonqar?), in order to put himself in Dani's good graces. Ok, that's pretty out there, but Martin does like to surprise us a bit. Ned's head coming off and the Red Wedding weren't so heavily foreshadowed that we knew what was coming. The author rather likes to play with expectations, and upend them.

[@tulkas42o22]

I've heard this one before. The valonqar is such a serious name......to be honest I'm just excited because I have just took my first reading break from fire and blood. Went to Barnes and Noble and even bought an exclusive grrm pop figure. Only after going round to the display again and seeing one missing from the last time I passed so I picked it up quick. This video was good. Keep it up brother! !!!!!! Also Gray area good job!

[@alexcoleman7105]

Sandor Clegane. He's always been Gregor's little brother.

[@AndrewK23777]

Gray Area ? i think i've heard of her 😉 . Great collaboration , you went her way and now she came on here, well done. As for the topic of the valonqar another concept sadly ignored in the show among many others from the books, even Euron's explorations and acquired artifacts totally ignored in the show which i think both could have easily been included , smh. Although we do see perhaps the perception of the valonqar concept in the show with Cersei's total unwavering hatred of Tyrion , thinking he is her future murderer. Even in the books i just think its another prophecy that will likely manifest itself much differently than most expect , the Valyrian portion of it further obscures who it is and adds to the intrigue. Im not sure if its Euron , its possible though with some evidentiary clues ; its sort of too obvious to be Tyrion as the "little brother" as he is clearly both in terms of age and size. Ntm Tyrion being a male character who has choked a female to death in the narrative already. I actually do like the idea of Jaime killing Cersei (queen-slaying) and coming full circle and if its for the good of the realm as was killing the Mad King , i don't think it disrupts his redemption arc , in fact for me it enhances it ; especially if its another act for the greater good at further cost of his reputation / public perception or more likely he is properly recognized for the necessity of his act time time around. Great vid as usual , look forward to wrapping up the Robert's Rebellion Series and the upcoming Fire & Blood content.

[@1handedtyper]

Gray Area? Wait, is she the black one. Yeah, I think I've heard of her too?😗

[@ShadeoftheEvening]

I've heard both sides. Great job Robert too!! I have thought ARYA might take JAMIE'S face and kill CERSEI. Maybe ARYA and the HOUND take down CERSEI and the MOUNTAIN! I think it's EURON though🐙👐🐺🐲❄🔥I said before, I think Jaime and Tyrion are WAY TOO obvious for GRRM😃

[@sleekoduck]

Great video! One thing does need to be pointed out, though. Maggie told Cersei that the Valonqar would "choke the life from her", not that he/she would kill her. It could be Aeron, who has been known to go around baptizing people. He was very big on that thing about godly people being on the throne. Overall, great theory, though!

[@SithScribe21]

@grayarea GREAT presentation and references! I could certainly see Euron and Cersei (with their relationship fully fleshed-out in the book, no time in the show) uniting their houses (what's left of the Lannisters) and then when Jamie finds out, he will go after Euron because, despite us all loving him and Brienne, he LOVES his sister. Anyhow, in my mind with this theory, Jamie walks-in on Euron killing Cersei (maybe after she has the baby? maybe he claims it as his own to keep his house on the throne?) via the old hands-to-the-throat method and as Jamie goes to take Euron out, too late to save Cersei, Greyjoy catches him across the throat with a dirk, allowing Jamie and Cersei to, indeed, "leave this world together!" Buuuuut, what the fu*k do I know? Lol.. Good show, both of you!!

[@chrisayers7957]

On the show, in the scene where Euron parades through the streets of Kings Landing w Yara, Illaria & the last remaining Sandsnake; a woman in the crowd clearly cheers Euron as "Valoncar". Watch it again.

[@chrisayers7957]

Also, I think that Euron will return w The Golden Company & the Ironborn to sack King's Landing.

[@naturesbliss2903]

Love the new series, Robert. I always thought Grey was on track with the Euron being the Valonqar theory. I think it might go that way in the books, but not the show, b/c the writers really haven’t given Euron much attention in the show. They could have given him more story line, but I don’t see it happening in the show. If Jaime does kill Cersei in the show, I think it would be Arya with Jaime’s face. Here’s some tinfoil, what if Arya kills Jaime and gives his face to Sansa to kill Cersei?

[@yourdashingheroidol7909]

That would be absolutely ridiculous! So,the famed "Faceless men"'s abilities boil down to mask trading? The show is dumb compared to the books(and I loved the show until last season) but not THAT dumb! Arya w/Jaime's face,fine.Wouldn't be my choice(getting really tired of how "badass"show Arya has become.She is hacky fan fic incarnate),but is at least plausible,given her training.But Arya letting Sansa "borrow" Jaime's FACE, like it's a fucking t-shirt?! Does that really sound even remotely satisfying to you? If you answered Yes, were you a staff writer for last season?

[@beezyqueen]

Came to say my tinfoil theory is theon, but others beat me to the punch. Will go further in suggesting maybe it will be a mercy killing. Perhaps euron does seize kings landing and cuts out Cersei’s tongue, and she “drowns” in some form of abusive captivity until theon mercy kills her.

[@TheTam0613]

I am having a perfect day! My Fire & Blood book was delivered and now two of my very favorite people teaming up for a great theory video. I've always thought it was Euron, based on the words of the witch and especially in her dream. Drowning, no tongue, tears all point to Euron, IMO. I also hope it isn't Jaime, for the same reasons mentioned by Gray. It's the same reason I hope there isn't a Clegane bowl. Jaime and Sandor have both grown away from their previously shitty selves. I think Jaime will die saving a Stark, who is also half Targ maybe. Jaime failed his oath to protect Rheagar's children and wife. And he swore to protect the Stark girls. I just want Jaime to become and stay his own man.

[@dannabats]

i watch so many videos and forget to like but this time i remembered.

[@ericschwegler7514]

23:57 someone has to kill cersie, and when that someone does we'll be able to say oh yea that makes sense ...Brick ceiling has entered the chat

[@hokogan]

Yeah, that was a pretty lame twist.

[@aboleyn24]

Loved listening to my two favorite creators together. Here is my crazy theory, Arya kills Cersei, but she does it by melting down Jaime's golden hand and turning it into a chain to wrap around Cersei's throat to strangle her.

[@anklesockson8134]

Would be pretty amusing if it just turned out to be Tyrion. Like the really obvious one nobody suspected because too obvious. You both made some interesting suggestions about Jaime and Euron though, I still find myself thinking it more likely to be Jaime. Arya is a lot less likely because strangling is not her style/faceless men style.

[@mazamonty710]

Haha...well....Jon Snow is also a little brother! He might be the Prince Who Was Promised, he takes the place of the Night King AND just as he is transforming and his eyes start to turn blue....he chokes Cersei (Because he doesn't fancy her as his Nights Queen. Hell...he may even get resurrected with a "Ghost" red eye lol Joke over...I'm with Grey on this one :)

[@moocyfarus8549]

He is a half little brother but he could easily be noted as an only child for he was the only child of those two people

[@dannabats]

he is half brother to two nearly absolutely dead, not a little brother to two trueborn parents. only

[@PinkyJustice]

Isn't Aegon the little brother?

[@26artgirl]

Grey has the cutest laugh. And I can hear you smiling Robert

[@daemoniiiblackfyre5296]

cheers man, looking forward to that rhaegar & tower of joy video.

[@nedjohnson4089]

Daemon III Blackfyre absolutely

[@daemonblackfyre3238]

No. I rather see a Blackfyre video "Boi".

[@spitfiremi]

I've always liked the idea that the Sandor Clegane is the Valonqar, he's the little brother and once he's done with Gregor/The Mountain/Robert Strong he can finish off Cersei. This fits the way things could go with the TV show, but are probably less likely in the books. Personally I think Jamie is the most likely, but while Euron would be really entertaining for me the Hound finishing off Cersei would be the most satisfying.

[@whatdisd]

Other than having his brother taxidermied what does Sandor got against Cersei?

[@ajgarcia1962]

Two of my favorite GOT youtubers together on my birthday? Well happy birthday to me 😊

[@cindykramirez]

@indeepgeek Your diplomacy is on point! I've never heard someone disagree so politely. I lean towards Euron, but Jamie is a close second for me.

[@annafield3136]

Listening to this post season 8 is sad. Like, they wouldn't go to all that effort to introduce Euron and then do nothing with him would they? Yes, yes they would. And, all the cool theories on who would kill Circe? Falling masonry. Such a disappointment

[@tfcooks]

Gray Area & In Deep Geek. My favorite 2 GOT peeps.

[@jacksonlynch1731]

Here's a thought. Euron has the Dragonbinder horn, right? And it requires a death to work? Might be a suitable death for Cersei. Murdered for the benefit of binding one of Dany's dragons.

[@dawnhaley6954]

Na, I think the Valonquar is a "cat" of a different coat (Arya). Of course I stole from bridge4...but I like it.

[@raymondholloway3425]

If Jamie's dies for the battle for Dawn and and Arya wears his face to eliminate Cersai.... Wow!!

[@bore-osofmyr2539]

GrayArea is so enjoyable. She has great theories and she picks up on lots of clues that we all miss (the dream Cersei being mute is a great catch!) Since we are straddling show theories and book theories, does anyone know if the theories will match or even overlap? Did George RR give chart blanche to the show runners to make what they will of post-book plots?

[@Oldman618]

In the show, he said to people in the throne room, "I have two good hands". Maybe the show runners setting with some foreshadowing.

[@yourdashingheroidol7909]

Don't give the show that much credit.MAINLY because show Euron is possibly the worst character translation from the books.Show Euron is an absolute hack compared to book Euron.

[@BodyBrightWorkout]

Just remembered I’m on here as GruiShui (green-schway) my workout name. I’m Paula 😊

[@Firstofhername007]

Robert is so well-spoken.

[@radcev61]

there is at least one more little brother who's certainly capable of using his bare hands to terminate Cercei's voyage to eternity. his name is Sandor aka the Hound

[@ovhaag]

Since Qyburn looked so interested at the arm of the wight in the dragonpit, I wonder if he will create a working right hand for Jamie. Then Jamie could kill Cersey with two good hands.

[@electricsquidindustries7196]

I like this theory but I think this same evidence could point to Victarion. He’s Euron’s little brother and he hates Euron and is plotting to steal his bride and double-cross him. Euron “forced” Vicrarion to strangle his first wife. A great deal is made of saving his injured hand. If book Cersei gets close to Euron, strangling her to ruin Euron’s ascent would be on-brand.

[@Void7.4.14]

I think it makes perfect sense that Aegon and/or Dany are closing in and Cersei is preparing to Wildfire the whole city and Jaime kills her to stop it, yet again, even if, and perhaps exactly because, it might cause his own demise. But it could also be Arya wearing Jaime's face should he die/be killed (remember where we left off with him, her Fire Wight mother in for em) before her or Qyburn's or even Tommen's or Euron's face? Maybe Arya doesn't play a huge role in the big war between the living and the dead as she does in the show but still plays a significant role. Maybe that's why it's gender neutral but the hands are not? It would also make sense if this cost Arya her life at the hand of The Mountain and this is what awakens the fire in The Hound if he is indeed still alive. Or maybe they go together as they did in the show, though that seems unlikely given what we know. Hell, maybe The Hound dies and she uses his face? Out there, but who knows. The whole Euron angle definitely has some weight though. I personally don't like it lol But that doesn't mean that's not where it's heading for sure. I dig it.

[@ovhaag]

I consider the Hound a fourth candidate for the valoncar. There is no forshadowing for him but the wording of the prophecy fits. If I read the prophecy I imagine a deposed queen Cersei waiting for sombody. And then this person does not come but the valoncar of this person. That can happen if the valoncar is (a) Arya or (b) the Hound instead of Jamie or Euron. Then (a) Cersei expects Sansa, who in this scenario is the younger and more beautiful one who did cast Cersei down. And instead of Sansa, Sansa's younger sister Arya comes and she has two small but good hands. Or (b) Cersei expects her last remaining "servant" the Mountain. Then (after Clegainbowl !) his younger brother, the Hound, comes and the Hound has two good and very strong hands.

[@nonfiction9849]

Robert, i know this is old so you probably won’t see this but……on to the Euron, younger brother issue. The people of the iron islands know all about Euron/he’s a psychopath but to everyone in Westeros, he’s Balon’s younger brother. I personally think it’s Euron but I really love your theory about him killing Cersei, mirroring Arys death & coming full circle. 2 possible endings for Jamie. He dies trying to protect Cersei from Euron, like they show them battling in the show, both twins die at Euron’s hand. Or, he dies on the battlefield in Brienne’s arms but he dies at the same time as Cersei so they leave the world together, just not physically together.

[@ryanorielly5617]

Great theory but honestly I just think we’ve had too much time to just get wildly complex between dance and winds

[@lyannabanna6917]

Euron for sure! Logistically, he will probably have private moments with Cercei without The Mountain around. I think Arya and Sandor may team up again to kill her and Gregor, and maybe steal some wildfire while in KL. If Arya does the deed, she would wear the face of Jaime, Euron or maybe Qyburn (who slips her poison that strangles). Then there's the *wacky* theory that Cercei dies giving birth to a dwarf (cervix=neck of the uterus)!

[@bostonmetalclips]

Not sure if I missed it, but did you touch on the word "pale" being used to describe her? Was she ever described as pale before? Maybe she will be dead already? Remember when Tyrion threatened her, her happiness would turn to ashes in her mouth...maybe it's connected. I get the feeling she will die and then be strangled when she comes back as a ....whatever you call the dead people. Idk

[@chrisph9910]

Valonqar is going to be Arya, as she is the little sister.

[@mrssalina]

She will have the mask of some younger brother like Jamie or Tyrion when she kills Cersei.

[@manuelodonnell1148]

@@mrssalina ... or maybe officially join the Brotherhood without Banners. That would make her a little Brother. But seriously, I'm with Gray that the VQ will have "HIS hands", and must therefore be a two-handed male or Arya in a boy suit. Wildest, most tinfoil possible qualifier: Daario Naharis is a Second Son, and all second sons are little brothers.

[@manuelodonnell1148]

2nd wildest: What if "...the Valonqar will choke the life out of you" doesn't mean that Cersei will be killed at all, but only that she will be strangled until she miscarries (thus choking "a life" out of her)?

[@sandeman1776]

Valonqar is Valyrian and their language is gender neutral. Valonqar could be gender neutral referring to Arya but using Tyrion's hands to do it, while wearing his face. That's why I think Valar Morghulis is actually "All must die, etc."

[@chrisph9910]

@@manuelodonnell1148 . . . What if the miscarriage causes her to die?

[@stofsk]

The key thing about the Maggy the Frog prophecy is how a) Cersei keeps misreading who/what it means, and b) everything she says comes true but often in an ironic fashion. With that in mind and given how much Cersei thinks it will be Tyrion who will strangle her, my money is on Jaime but not in any kind of malicious way. The show's way of resolving this was to have them die together and with Jaime's arms wrapped around her neck but in a protective way. That feels too on-the-nose to be anything but a Martin-directed plot point, especially given the show never pushed the Valonqar prophecy at all.

[@WhenIsItUs]

Seeing how Euron fits in to the prophecy(forgive me, I'm not as good at this stuff) could the pale white throat have something to do with White Harbor and the Neck? Could it be meant more as a military choking, since the Iron Fleet is on both sides now? Also, could Valonqar be plural?

[@ShadeoftheEvening]

Can't WAIT for this discussion!! EURON is TOP on my list for VALONQUAR!! I'm with ya GRAY!! 🐺🐲Jaime or Tyrion are too obvious for GRRM! I'm with ya GRAY!!💙👏💞. EURON IS VALONQUAR🐙👐

[@emrek99205]

The valonqar is Arya. How? Easy. Engage story-mode: Night king by passes or defeats Winterfell. Doesn't matter how. He makes his way to Kings Landing. At the same time Jamie returns to protect his Queen Sister from the horde of White Walkers. The Night King from outside the Red Keep senses an unusual but powerful dead moving about inside. He raises the dead Mountain who was reanimated by Qyburn without possession. With the Mountain Who Is Ridden under his control he tries to kill Cersei. Jamie steps between them telling her to run. She does while Jamie and the Mountain square off. Note the Mountain is no longer slow and dumb under the Night King's direct possession so the fight is epic. Arya appears near the end of the fight. The Mountain is on her list. She helps Jamie and the Mountain is eventually killed by her and her dagger. But it's lost. Jamie is mortally wounded. He should be on her list since he captured Ned, but because he wasn't in Kings Landing when her father was killed he is not. Arya doesn't kill him and he suggests finding a Maester. This area of the keep is mostly empty but she says she will see. A while later (different chapter?) Cersei hears a wounded Jamie calling for her and slowly, greiviously making his way to where he thinks she might be. She comes out from hiding in one of the Red Keep's many dusty and unused, hidden chambers. She goes to him and embraces him as they both kneel on the floor. He tells her that he has killed the Mountain. In this final act he was able to redeem himself to her but his wounds are too severe and he is dying. She also mentions getting a Maester but he stops her saying that no help will come in time They both cry together knowing this is the last time she will see him alive. His last wish is to be able to kiss her once more. Openly. As brother and sister. As lovers. And so he does. She kisses him back. In their passion he reaches up to hold her face in his hands as they kiss. Mimicing him she also reaches up to hold his f... wait.. his hands? His HANDS!?! He has TWO hands!!!??? As he strangles her there is confusion on her tear streaked face which then turns pale as fear sets in. Maggie the Frog's prophesy once again fills her mind. In her struggle and desperation she pulls off enough of Jamie's mask to reveal Arya underneath. Arya with Jamie's strength then continues to strangle Cersei until her body is lifeless. With the last name on her list crossed off, Arya stands and removes the rest of the mask. Arya never did inform the Maesters of Jamie's condition nor did she kill him. She just waited a moment for him to die. But she did prevent him from being reanimated by the Night King in the only way she had available that she knew would work - by preserving the body and taking his face. All men must die, after all. Arya uses Jamie's sword, which was reforged from her father's sword Ice, to decapitate the now unconscious (or dead, difference doesn't matter) Cersei. This is to mimic the cruelty Cersei had caused upon her father. It also would prevent her from being raised by the Night King who is still somewhere in the area. She wouldn't want to add Cersei's name onto the list a second time. Whether her head ends up on a pike as did her father's remains to be seen. She was no longer in King's Landing when that display occurred, but she may have heard about it from the play she participated in while training with the Faceless Men. I also don't know if GRRM would be that righteous with her revenge.

[@justis9707]

If it's Jamie how do you link the mismatched eyes to him? Tyrion and euron fit that description but not jamie

[@HopeUnquenchable]

Great, all we need now is for Jamie to get an eye poked out as well; how many body parts does the guy have to lose?

[@1971ECRUZ]

I personally believe it's Jamie, one reason is that the books remind us constantly that "the things we love most are the things that kill us", and if there is anything or anyone that Cersei loves it's Jamie. If not Jamie then Arya with Jamie's face, for the reasons that Robert mentioned.

[@hellomd5046]

damn, my dogs are gonna eat me

[@jaderrdragonlover764]

For the prophesy to come true, Cersei would have had to lose everything that matters to her at this point. Wealth, family, stature, the throne, power, and even Jamie. All is lost and she is out of tears due to that loss.Theon , the little brother, she tries to escape through the cave to the sea, Theon and the iron born are there battleing Euron. He wraps his hands around her throat and drowns her the way the Iron born do to offer to their God. His story comes full circle. Retribution for his adoptive family, the Starks, and still honoring his heritage to the Iron Born traditions of the sea god.

[@PinkyJustice]

She has lost all of that minus tommen

[@jaredbrady5566]

Cersei's dream. AFFC Cersei VIII: The valonqar shall wrap his hands about your throat... The hands emerged from the mists of her dream and coiled around her neck; thick hands, and strong. Above them floated his face, leering down at her with his mismatched eyes... She woke gasping in the dark with her blanket wound about her neck.

[@robrifkin571]

The Hound!

[@victoriasantoro6692]

My two most lovely KZbin creators you Robert and Gray making a wonderful video about this dishonest and creepy guy killing Cercei .I agree with Gray about Euron being Valongar [even and if i dont think it will happen in S8..but who knows..everything is possible]..Euron has mismatched eyes[one Blue ..the other black[hidden under his eye patch ]..some people think also red but thats a red herring ]and he clearly [even Cercei doesnt see it]wants the Iron Throne for himself..and wants to marry her and then kill her for that.He does not care if she is the Queen of the 7 Kingdoms or not or if she is pregnant or not..He will do what he wants .Cercei is very unaware of him and his true dark intentions.Also i feel like Jaime is going to die in Breannes arms ..the only woman that loved him and learned him from inside [that bathtub scene in S3 is so memorable ..because its the scene of Jaimes rebirth and change]after he does something heroic[Saves/protect Jon or Danny or their baby [Arthur Dayne style in the Tower of Joy]or kills or helps to the killing of the NK ]..Personally i want the NK to kill Cercei and to turn her into NQ and then Arya or Jaime to kill her again with Dragonglass or VS in the heart.That will be so kinda ironic for Cercei..because she thinks that the NK will kill only her enemies and will not touch her or thinks that she will defeat him easily after that.Also if Euron marries Cercei ..it will mirror the Bloodstone Emperor myth from the books ..where he after killing the Amethyst Empress[nissa nissa/Fella Flowers[books] or Yara[show]or even Cercei ] takes the Throne of the Gemstone Empire and marries a Tiger woman with Green Eyes [Cercei is the lioness of House Lannister and she has Green Eyes or even a Child of the Forest[they have green eyes too] ]and this caused the wrath.. of the Lion of the Night [Jaime or the NK]and the Maiden of the Night[Breanne or the NQ]..maybe this can mean that that Cercei-Euron marriage will cause Jaimes[Lion of the Night]wrath upon her [and might makes him Valongar too]and Breanne[Maiden of the Night] will help him to take revenge upon Cercei-Euron...Maybe she to kills Euron while Jaime kills Cercei at the same time.In S8 might see that in the end.

[@LL-xp2jb]

Euron does sound like a good candidate, but for poetic and tragic symmetry I prefer Jaime. My bet is on Arya. She passed on Cersei once, but by Episode 6 the Starks/Targs/Winterfell will have suffered so much that Arya would feel it's her duty. I see her killing Qyburn or the chambermaid and using the face for access. And then--IF they're picky about the prophecy--using The Strangler, which is a poison Arya presumably learned about. And IIRC book Arya learned some Valyrian in Braavos, not least she knew "Valar Morghulus." For what it's worth, in the first long trailer for Season 7, Cersei has a voiceover of her the "enemies from" the four compass points speech. When she says enemies from the North...we see Arya on horseback riding through the woods.

[@mayalarsson2380]

Thank you both for all your time spent on amazing theories and background checks! I recently had another thought about the valonqar prophecy I've not seen covered. I might be reading in to much in it but still 😂 could marcella be the valonqar? Cercei has fantasies about how she looks dead and is heartbroken about her death. Couldn't it be kind of cruel and a chock if they raise the dead in kings landing... to me it fits but idk 😂

[@jat3916]

It could be Euron it will only be Arya if Jamie is killed at Winterfell and she takes his face to do it. The prophecy specifically says HE will wrap his hands (plural) around your...

[@VideoINCFamily]

But in valiryn (?sp). Sorry. If it was in that language we were just told that they don’t have a distinction between male or female. So in turn it could be little sister as well. Which brings the little Stark back in the game for it.

[@branthebeardedbuilder6813]

YESSSSS!!!!!!! Been saying it forever

[@ryasa777]

I am quite fond of the idea that Tommen dies, but Cersei gets Qyburn to do his thing (or the Others if you want)... then Tommen is the Valenqar... but I think Jaime has the best case narratively/thematically :)

[@facesmelt9903]

What if the “strangling” doesn’t actually require two physical hands? And is instead a metaphor? We know that Jamie killed Olenna Tyrell, who used a poison called “the strangler” to kill Jamie and Cersei’s son. When someone takes the strangler they both choke on blood and cry blood, a kind of “drowning in their tears” and as if “their tongue had been cut.” It may just happen that upon nearing victory against Cersei’s forces, Jamie tries to enter her quarters to tell her the end has come. He tries to walk past the Mountain, as she had let him do before-but now that she has had the feeling of his betrayal lingering for a while, she doesn’t offer him the same sympathy and has the Mountain put a sword through Jamie. She tries to keep her composure watching Jamie die, holding back tears. The battle rages on and once Cersei sees no way out, the walls are breached, all her plans have failed, her forces are gone. She finds a vial of poison that Jamie had stolen while sacking Highgarden-the strangler, the same one used to kill her son-and she takes it over Jamie’s dead body, falling onto him. They came into this world together, and they left it together. In death, he was her Valonqar. A tragic ending to a romance between two star-crossed lovers. An ode to Romeo and Juliet. Olenna Tyrell also gets one last bit of revenge, after her own death, for her daughter Margery.

[@PinkyJustice]

Uh cersei is going to be tommen/young Griff's hand of the king, she's going to be wearing the necklace, she's going to order the wild fire burned when dany attacks .. He's going to kill her for the same reason he killed the mad king... She's been showing the mad king traits the whole time It will go to show that when he killed the king it was the truest of a knight he ever was

[@professorhazard]

Surprised that nobody brought up Robert Strong - his eyes are definitely mismatched, being a patchwork abomination, he doesn't speak, and he is the "little brother" in that Sandor matured and evolved into a bigger person. I think the usage of the Valyrian language has to imply irony.

[@RissOfRivia]

I won’t lie, Gray makes some really good points. But Jamie works better for me personally.

[@justis9707]

I think Jamie might strangle cersie not out of anger or spite but to protect her from a worse death

[@XX-um1du]

Also it would be poetic for Jaime to kill Cersei, since the majority of Lannisters have been murdered by other Lannisters. All they cared about was their family’s legacy and yet it’s their own family that ended up destroying itself in the end.

[@Anjalena]

I haven't read the books so my opinion on this is dicey, at best. But having watched videos by good people like you who HAVE read the book and adding my own vision onto it, this is what I came up with. Again, disclaimer that it may be very invalid based on *anything* that happened in the book that I'm obviously unaware of. I did not know about Euron so that is a very interesting point of view to consider. Thanks! =) So, I came to the conclusion of Jaime like many others. You said that Jaime is in this redemption arc and it is hard for you to see him coming full circle. But what if he's doing it to protect the kingdom or something even more precious to him, just like he did with the mad king? Here is one theory I came up with that might make that situation possible since we know Cersei has basically gone mad with grief and power herself. But what if her baby is born as a dwarf? As much as her mind is clouded by her fear and loathing of Tyrion, and the fact she didn't get to kill him before he fled, maybe her madness could overthrow her mind and she might try to kill the baby. If Jaime were to see her doing that, or find out that she was going to, I could very much see him killing her in a very deeply emotionally painful way. (like I see him strangling her, crying, drooling, etc. full on emotion during the act. we know he has shown that kind of rash emotion in that stupid rape scene that made no sense) But that's a very specific, worst case scenario (with their baby being involved). It could also have to do with saving the kingdom from her since he is going through this redemption arc.

[@johnpayne498]

Why are we simply ruling out Tyrion? It seems obvious. I don't think it was an accident that Tyrion saves King's Landing using wildfire but gets no credit for it. I think he may know what cersei is up to and follow in Jamie's footsteps and prevent her (like the mad king) from destroying KL again. I like him becoming one with Jamie this way...full circle...and he will strangle her.

[@IAmRedherrings]

Gray is awesome! I'd love a collab with smokescreen at some point in this series!

[@kalibhakta8640]

Interesting theory, but I'm still leaning toward Jaime. Yes, he only has one hand, but Cersei took an awful fancy to the chain of golden hands Tyrion strangled Shae with (and was Tywin's chain of office). And if Osney Kettleblack is executed, I wouldn't rule out Osfryd, who is the younger of the two surviving brothers, even though older than Osney. One thing I am willing to bet actual money on is, whoever the Valonqar turns out to be, he's going to strangle Cersei with that chain of golden hands. Srsly, Checkov's Necklace.

[@E_Cleazy]

Jamie will be known as the King Slayer and the Queen Slayer. He's going to kill Cersi but with a twist. "The things I do for love..."

[@katericochran4634]

I don't think that the show will take the choking the life out of Cercei literally. Perhaps Jamie is killed and she blames Tyrion because he's "Hand of the Queen (Danerys) and that is Cercei's last link to humanity. I think that Jamie's death will choke the life out of her and she'll blow up King's Landing. And no one will sit on the Iron Throne because it will no longer exist, or at least no people in King's Landing.

[@georgigeorgiev4871]

You're missing a point there. A big part of Jaime being called Kingslayer is context. His father betrayed the Mad king and was currently sacking King's landing. That means that Jaime has legitimate selfish reason to betray his vows. The other option is to face his father and battle his soldiers, basically to suicide. It's very hard to have such context and keep searching for other, more redeeming reasons for his behavior. If he kills his sister - on the other hand - people will have no reason to suspect selfishness. They will look for the reasons and find 'em.

[@ComputingGizmo]

It’ll be funny to see Jamie not getting credit for saving the people, yet again! From King slayer, to queen slayer, or even kin slayer. An impressive resume. That’s a resume and a half.

[@JW-wb3rl]

What about the part where she is cold? Could the Night king turn Cersei?

[@cliffordheart8261]

You know in the books the only person called littler brother is the damp hair. I can see in the show that euron takes on this role because obviously the damn hair is not tied to the front of his ship or anything lol. It can be kinda shown that all is almost the same because euron will bring the damp hair as well!

[@femsff7090]

I'm not invested enough to make a proper guess but one thing that always bothers me about the theory of Euron being the valonqar/marrying Cersei, is that everyone says that Cersei would never marry him because that would threaten her position as the Queen since he'd become the king... but in many monarchies, a female monarch (Queen) marrying a man would make him a prince, not the king. And a king marrying a woman generally makes the woman queen consort, but it's usually simply referred to as queen. The only exception would probably be if both man and woman are monarchs in their respective countries, they'd be King and Queen of their two countries upon marriage.

[@lemonylemony4276]

Interesting, thank you both. Lots to think about. Were you saying you think Cersei is the corpse bride figure at Euron's side in the Forsaken trip? It was my first thought, to...maybe influenced by season 7 show development, though. I really liked a suggestion I saw the other day that perhaps Cersei's septa misinterpreted, and valonqar translates as "smallfolk" - "val-" being mankind in general when it's in the context of valar morghulis, e.g. and small/little obviously being basically the same. I think a death by complication of pregnancy might be fitting, if she got pregnant in an attempt to disprove the prophesy, divert it from becoming true by making the 3 children pat of it false. Her obsession with the prophesy and avoiding it actually leads to its self-fulfillment. Other ideas...poison, considering two poisons that have played a significant part in the story so far have been the "tears of Lys" and "the strangler" - both related in their common names to the statement in the prophesy. Aaaand, a wight, because, correct me if I'm wrong, the few times we've come across them in the text so far (ignore the show and its silly stabby skeletons killing Jojen), wights (ice wights, that is) always try to choke their victims. I'm mostly joking when I say wight Tommen (Zommen, if you will), the little brother out of the 3 golden-shrouded children Maggie speaks of directly before.

[@vorthora]

If the word referring to the prince that was promised in High Valyrian is gender neutral, what if the same applies to Valonqar? Arya with her skills and death list could also apply. Note: I typed this before you mentioned Arya.

[@chrisph9910]

Also, dont forget that Arya knows the tunnels of KL better than any of the heroes not named Varys.

[@ovhaag]

If I was Cersay, I would first -- ensure that the golden company has enough seamen who can sail Euron's ships seccond -- consent to a wedding with Euron third -- use the the golden company to kill Euron and all his men on the wedding feast, like Tywin used the Freys to kill the Starks on the red wedding But then Euron is dead and cannot strangle Cersay with his two good hands That leaves three Valoncar candidates: Jamie, Arya and maybe the Hound, who is the little brother of the Mountain

[@lazloholt262]

I still think Arya is going to kill Jaime (maybe he even allows her to in a self-sacrifice sort of situation, which would probably power some sort of magic), take his face, and choke Cersie to death

[@britbrat201191]

My money’s on Jaime. My theory is that his murder of Cersei will parallel Tyrion’s murder of Shae. Both will involve choking and feelings associated with spurned lovers.

[@lindazee126]

I think it will be Jaime - you can see he is conflicted after she burns the sept, makes plans without including him and finally leaves her. He will kill her when she attempts to burn Kings Landing with wildfire. Or perhaps Tyrion may kill her with Jaime looking on.