Is It Ethical To Share Police Videos? (Feat.

[@user-xsn5ozskwg]

I hadn't even considered police doing off-camera tactics like that to elicit responses from their victims... Thank you for focusing heavily on the aspect of harm sharing does to those who see themselves, or are just empathetic. I remember a lot of my friends and I were surprised back in 2020 the amount of outrage George Floyd's murder received because we've been used to the level of violence and no one saying or doing anything. And suddenly it felt like you couldn't escape seeing the footage anywhere, being reminded that there's just a gang out there not only legally authorised to kill you but justified to do so in the eyes of so many based on skin colour alone. And even when shared in the context of "this is tragic; we should do something," you inevitably see comments saying how it was warranted or not an issue or even funny, and it's hard to say just how much that breaks the spirit. Though I know many other have experienced similar feelings.

[@ThatDangDad]

Great video, Skittles! (Kay, you did ok too)

[@renaigh]

you were great too

[@RhythmLP]

That Dang Dad is a real one, glad to see yall collaborating

[@FrozEnbyWolf150]

Along the same lines, whenever there is a mass murder like a mass shooting, it's important that people remember to talk about the victims as human beings and remember the lives they led. Not continuously talk about the shooter and spread his name around like he's some famous outlaw. Similar to the serial killers of the past, mass shooters often develop cult followings who treat them like heroes or romantic interests. We don't need to hear every last detail of the killer's life repeated 24/7.

[@the_cousin69]

Speaking as someone who used to spend more time of their teenage years than they'd care to admit on reactionary image- and message boards where videos of police violence were routinely shared (and often commented on with expectedly bigoted remarks and listed under explicitly exploitative tags), your analysis of footage of police violence often serving as perverse entertainment/ straight-up reinforcement of the ideology behind stochastic terrorism moreso than a tool of critique and condemnation really hits home. Something that I vividly remember about these videos - specifically when they're featured on said forums - is that they're often uploaded in the same rubric as generic gore, gross-out or 'shock' videos, adding to their commodification as mere 'shock content' and thus the active dehumanization of the victims. Excellent video, Kay. More people definitely need to see this.

[@kaitlyn__L]

The fact that police violence is treated as almost a fact of nature in the USA is quite depressing

[@surgeland9084]

Man I don't know. Though I have never experienced police violence directly, as an Indigenous person in Canada, it has always existed at the fray of my community and my experience. I have shared the stories and the names of the victims but I have deliberately avoided the actual footage. I can also see the utility of sharing videos to people who need to be plainly shown the violence firsthand. The point about the manipulation of footage is important to bear in mind, though.

[@sarika3689]

Babe wake up new Kay and Skittles video just dropped

[@pinotpinotpinot]

Living in Germany there is this weird disconnect between police violence in the US and police violence in Germany. Similar to this othering effect that @ThatDangDad talked about, people will look at such footage and think along the lines of "well that is horrible, something like that doesn't happen in Germany luckily". And while, of course, violence against and suppression of black people (although minorities in general, people who are poor or with mental disabilites are also frequent targets) needs to be emphasized due to the extraordinary level they happen at - police violence is certainly also present in Germany, but often times I feel it gets ignored or downplayed in such comparisons. Here the main targets of violence are mostly refugees, minorities, mentally disabled, political activists (mostly left wing, climate activists, antifa, squatters etc.) and football hooligans. And a huge problem is that the police, their unions and politics in general actively hinder and prevent thorough studies of racism and police violence; so the available research on such topics here is way smaller than in the us or in france. To this day I am outraged that Oury Jalloh was burned alive in his cell in 2005 and the killers still walk free. In general there is a huge difference between how accusations of violence from normal people and police officers play out. Almost none of the accused officers get actually convicted - the data here is actually astonishing to look at. And in the last years several federal states in germany implemented police laws that are even more restrictive to society, while all the attrocities remain. The police is not your friend and helper, they are always thugs in blue until actively proven otherwise. Defund and disempower the police always and everywhere.

[@charlieh9973]

More nuance to police cams than I initially thought. Just listened to the first chapter of vitales book you recommend, he mentions the idea of having an independent group manage police footage. I imagine that would be better than how it is now. Great collaboration!

[@iamjustkiwi]

I think the hardest part would be deciding who gets to be members of the independent group. This is an issue where I don't think there is anyone who is neutral towards it / hasn't decided their hardline stance either always backing police or never supporting them. Our greatest weakness as humans is that we are completely incapable of separating our personal beliefs from our decisions - same reason why I am so annoyed by the idea of judges being neutral arbiters of justice all while trumps appointees prove the exact opposite, and the fact that the appeals process exists so you can fish for a more favorable judge which kinda gives the whole game away. I know for sure I would not be able to give cops the benefit of the doubt due to them doing everything in their power to not deserve it.

[@VoonNBuddies]

I really hope this video is not buried by KZbin. This contains so much important information about the police and their role in society and their place in history. The final moments of this video dedicated to Tyre Nichols' life will stay with me for a long time. He should still be with us. He should still be with his family. He was stolen from the world and from his loved ones for fucking no reason. And he's one of thousands. And millions more live in fear that any day, any second, they could come to the same end. The police need to go.

[@uanime1]

It would have been more accurate if it pointed out that Tyre was killed by black cops and that simply criticising white cops won't fix these problems.

[@VoonNBuddies]

@@uanime1 This video does not make the assertion that "simply criticizing white cops" would fix these problems. Your point is nonsensical. Also, anime avatar.

[@uanime1]

@@VoonNBuddies "This video does not make the assertion that "simply criticizing white cops" would fix these problems." Other than only criticising white cops and ignoring that black cops killed Tyre.

[@packman2321]

Really good video. I hadn't really considered the hisotrical connections you raise here and it's always good to know more visual tricks to watch out for that aim to produce copaganda.

[@lanaalba8392]

I completely agree that sharing the works or parts of the life of the person murdered is much more inspiring than the brutal act itself. Not only does it remind you of the value of life, but it inspires you to act in order to protect life, instead of feeling fear and anxiety.

[@ZagTheRaccoon]

the topic of reposting footage ad nauseum reminds me of the discourse on #BlackMastodon where they were getting inundated with footage from well intentioned white folk that caused a lot of additional trauma. Theres also a place for discussion of content warnings here, and to what degree that does or doesn't resolves the issues.

[@baldponder]

Good bless you Kay for the videos you provide. As a young Black man in America, I find your words and insights extremely informative and genuine. You truly are an internet superstar. Sending love from CT

[@bartvisscher2647]

Bravo.......great production, you spent a lot of time making this, thank you

[@RonTheAnarchist]

EVERYBODY SHUTUP, IT'S A NEW KAY AND SKITTLES VIDEO.

[@opjm8664]

Having just seen some shared body cam violence, this is incredible timing. I don't want to see the violence. I don't want to ignore the reality of police violence. I want a world where the reality is there is no police violence for me to see.

[@iamjustkiwi]

Well put, I feel the same way about the world news. Genuinely a lot of terrible things are going on in the world every day and I feel like ignoring it is a statement of just not caring about the world outside your bubble. On the other side though, hearing about all of it can be incredibly depressing and stressful and its like, am I better off dealing with the stress and being informed or enjoying ignorant bliss? I genuinely have no answer.

[@leon3589]

Your content is amazing and inspiring, as always. You really think outside of the box. Your content has become fundamental to my learning. Thank you.

[@Merudinnn]

The wait between Kay and Skittles videos may be long but it's always worth it. Great video as always!

[@amp888]

I appreciate the guest spot and information from the former police officer, but I winced every time he said "civilian" when referring to members of the public. Police should use the term "citizen" rather than "civilian", as "civilian" only further perpetuates the "us vs them" mentality and the notion that police are "at war" with the public. The "kind of othering effect" mentioned at 6:50 also relates to the use of language in this case.

[@5Detective]

I'm sure that that guy would agree with you on this, it's a great point. I think he seems to readily acknowledge that he was conditioned and ordered to behave that way. It seems like a common phrasing by police. Hopefully he sees your comment or someone else points it out to him.

[@amp888]

@@5Detective Indeed.

[@UncleKeith567]

He knows exactly what he's doing. Using the language of the police, as you have said, illuminates the depth of their brainwashing.

[@antdrioite]

interesting take, ordered the end of policing book. Just thanks for the video

[@5Detective]

Great video. It's always a treat to see your videos, I just wish they had more traction. Would love to see more from you, because you always do a great job explaining your arguments and addressing possible counterarguments. And while I'm fairly certain we don't completely agree politically, I appreciate that you try to stick to the facts as carefully as you can and haven't delved too far into the minutiae of leftist ideological discourse that usually devolves into slap fighting. And you haven't ever gone out of your way to denigrate figures or movements, instead focusing on their strengths and place in history overall. Kind of a longer comment than I intended, but just wanted to say I appreciate your videos.

[@PocketDeerBoy]

I think all the protest and police brutality footage that got shared around in 2020 legitimately had a traumatizing effect on me. Sure, on some level, I now viscerally know the extent of police brutality on. But sometimes even a depiction similar events in film will suddenly make me cry and get anxious and panicky. I can only imagine the varying levels of distress it can cause to people with different levels of closeness to said events, either violence on people who look like them, or close to them, or having experienced it - don't let sharing around videos be your whole ass praxis.

[@renaigh]

this isn't an example of Police violence but I feel it's somewhat relevant to how regular people treat the victims. Brianna Ghey was brutally murdered in the UK because of everything that country has down to demonise us and yet the broader public (even those who would've called themselves "allies") decided that the best thing to occupy their minds at the time was a mediocre video game that directly supported Anti-Trans discrimination. I'll say it again for the people in the back, People who claim to want to support us in our struggles avoided talking about it in any way that would have conflicted with their own feelings.

[@astralseaslug546]

Hell yeah my fave channel is posting

[@Sandra-hc4vo]

something I hadn't thought of before, but those are great point.

[@BeautifulEarthJa]

2:00 or perhaps because the five cops were black

[@UncleKeith567]

Exactly.

[@diabl0r]

Great video on a difficult topic. As an outsider living in a country with minimal/hidden police violence it's hard to imagine what it feels like confronting the reality of that violence first-hand and all its reproductions online. For many more fortunate communities, these videos might as well describe a virtual reality that happens somewhere else, never here. Many online groups that are based almost exclusively around sharing police violence content seem to hyperfocus on the violence on display, rarely engaging in critical discussion around the causes of violence or the institutions themselves. Almost a pathological preoccupation with the graphic violence, that just seeing the video (taken as fact in itself vs. what @ThatDangDad explained about body cam manipulation) reinforces their ideas of state violence, cop behavior, minorities etc. Though I'm glad that there are efforts to view the victims as real people with real lives outside of their confrontations with the police. On the same topic, when Forensic Architecture and Invisible Institute of Chicago held an exhibition that included the investigation into the 2018 police killing of Harith Augustus., they decided not to include the videos analyzing the shooting in the public installation. They cited similar concerns e.g. "apparent contradiction between necessity of looking and difficulty of showing," "...concerns about presenting graphic police violence against a black man [in the context of an exhibition]," "the danger of foreclosing other ways of engaging with the life of Harith Augustus by repeatedly showing his last moments," and "inflicting difficult images [on visitors who had not consented to view them]." Thank you again for the work you do here Kay and Skittles.

[@goblin3359]

Body cam footage is important, but it baffles me that the ability to release or edit that footage is solely at the behest of the cops themselves is dodgy. Surely there ought to be a third party that has sole access to the footage? That would be expensive, I'm sure, but perhaps could prevent the misuse of footage by police.

[@GrandArchPriestOfTheAlgorithm]

Witness the power of The Holy Numbers as they bless you with this fine video.

[@1GentleGiant1]

Ah finally another fur noodle communist video

[@AzrothBoi]

A lot of this video was jarring, but seeing the March on Washington by the clan was particularly bad. I forgot about that.

[@michimatsch5862]

I thought this was a video by That Dang Dad only to see he was is featured after the vid started.

[@KayAndSkittles]

Yeah I'm the one with the weasel.

[@MP-db9sw]

Theres no argument at all that anyone can make that will ever EVER convince me that I understand a situation better when I dont see the footage.

[@Heshesque]

I really like all of your videos, they're so insightful and nuanced

[@fluffywolfo3663]

Real talk? I've never watched one of said videos. I've never _wanted_ to watch said videos. It's... bad enough I know what happened without seeing it.

[@chcknpie04]

Somebody has got to bear witness

[@fluffywolfo3663]

@@chcknpie04 True, it's important that someone sees it and knows exactly what it looks like. I'm just not the guy.

[@KayAndSkittles]

Nothing wrong with that imo.

[@thecaptn7169]

I never comment on videos but u and Skittles deserve it your channel is monumental and deserves to thrive

[@bernardheathaway9146]

It's been years since I last watched a video like this...

[@christian2i]

Thank God, the KZbin Maschine said it's k

[@chcknpie04]

Love your work!

[@monsieurlefrog8706]

i think we should change the phrase "absolute power corrupts absolutely" to "any power corrupts anyone"

[@GaasubaMeskhenet]

Make lenseless monocles by looking through needle holes

[@empatheticrambo4890]

I hadn’t really considered the ways videos could be manipulated for socials

[@caramelldansen2204]

Too true. The first video made me angry; each one after that just made me sad. Lal salam.

[@AshiwiZuni]

Ill just say this, I dont think it is for everyone to share, especially the 13 year old suburban white kids who do no on the ground political action. But as someone who has personally experienced police violence, and witnessed more than id like to remember, I take the chance to share those videos with specific people and groups when the opportunity presents itself. Taking the time to educate someone who is willing to learn properly is so important otherwise we are just screaming into a void.

[@burnedbread4691]

Yes, always. No mercy for cops

[@wisdommanari6701]

ACAB

[@kitwhitfield7169]

One thing I personally feel about such videos is that I can’t know how the victim would feel about some total stranger watching terrible things be done to them. Everyone who dies is an individual with different feelings, and maybe some would want it viewed as much as possible, but others might have felt that more views of them being degraded just compounds the degradation. If I was on a jury, sure, watching might do some good, but just because footage exists? Nobody consented to my watching them be murdered. Media consumption isn’t activism, and this extends to real-life footage. I don’t make any hard and fast rules for anyone, but I do feel that whatever we do should at least include respect for the dead.

[@MalfunctioningAndroid]

Don't do crime and you'll be ok.

[@UnisRapper]

wtf is the solution then?

[@DrinkTheKoolAid62]

Oh America - we hardly even knew ye

[@wastucar8127]

I didn't see this in my sub box?????

[@flow1194]

maybe your box is leaking?

[@caramelldansen2204]

Kay! When is AGABpod coming back? 😭

[@MP-db9sw]

The entertainment aspect perfectly explains channels like DonutOperator. I was subbed to the channel for a while but the more I read and interacted in the comments the more I came to understand the audience was mostly a bunch of bigots looking for murder-pron.

[@tonywords6713]

Its also important to note that you can literally traumatize yourself by watching these. And really its kind of pointless, even one such incident should be more than enough to call for an end, and once youve seen one youve seen them all.

[@UncleKeith567]

I've not watched any of these murders, I don't need to. KZbinr Vudoomunkyfut has a great video about this subject, and doesn't hit on the exact same insights as the work produced by Skittles. Check them out. Hey T.D. Daddy! Always great to see you cross-pollinating.

[@disaffectedgenxer8354]

for the algorithm

[@1227CGanimated]

I believe, on the contrary that sharing footage of police being killed is ethical and that it teaches the working-class that police are weak enough to be fought back against. Like imagine instead of just holding up signs, lots of people were mobilized as an Army against these bastards. It's the only language that the state understands. It's not like we have any other effective methods that are "legal". My favorites are the Kyle Dinkheller video, the Darion Jarett video and the Craig Johnson video.

[@rorrschach8339]

I disagree.

[@uanime1]

I'm not here to scold anyone, except for all the people I scolded. Hypocrisy at its finest. Also I find it suspicious that this video was made after a black man was killed by black cops, something not mentioned in this video. Especially since this channel only criticises white cops.

[@jessicaroberts521]

yea, i noticed that too. 5/6 of the cops were black, as seen by the photo, yet he made absolutely no mention of that

[@mm-rj3vo]

Before watching, I'm going to state my opinion, and update on any changes in opinion. My current opinion. All state sanctioned actions should be public information, especially including acts of violence. This is beneficial to the population of civilians in order to recognize the danger they are in from the state and respond accordingly, with caution or with effective resistance. Documentation of evil can assist in spreading resistance against it, even if it hurts loved ones of the victims to see or know of. Videos of their loved one are not their property, and their pain is a natural and normal response to what should be resisted. I wouldn't want my mother to request the removal of videos of anti-trans violence against my person. It is important to respect loved one's requests, but not if it gets in the way of the public knowing the evils that the state commits. And now I'm watching the vid to see if my thoughts change. I shall return with an additional edit below, but only if my opinion changes.

[@user-xsn5ozskwg]

There isn't an argument about the existence or access to these videos though, just about sharing them wantonly.

[@mm-rj3vo]

@@user-xsn5ozskwg Sharing them between individuals can be very ill advised, yeah, I'm totally on board with that, but I will say that it can be important to spread videos that are the opposite of incriminating, if the cut and clipped and cropped ones are the ones that the pigs are displaying. So I'd say yes, but there's a blurry line between respecting the bereaved and the dead, and practical utility.