Is it possible to be in fight, flight, and freeze at the same time?

[@BrentBaity]

I started practicing to the best of my ability, self-care I'll call it. I rolled around on my mats, ate nutritious meals, smoothies, stretching, breathing and becoming more aware of my body, my emotions and my thoughts. Then after 18 months... I fell of the wagon. Started drinking alcohol again and these last few months have been a living hell. My body doesn't like to be mistreated this way. I'd stopped doing the work, laid around drunk and I'm currently working on getting help for my ism. Hopefully soon I will be on track. Just wanted to share how I went from doing very well to taking a nose dive due to having stopped abruptly and wonder if this has happened to anyone else. This work is taxing to say the least. I am realizing the importance of seeing SE as a complete lifestyle change which must be kept up or else...

[@marayale]

@user-it5im7dy8f - Glad you started to find some regulation. Sorry to hear about your "ism." Please find the support you need and begin again from where you are. I'm Mara with Team Lyon. It is indeed a lifestyle change and we can come back to it again and again as needed. Be gentle with yourself.

[@LlamaM2288]

I wish there was some kind therapist and psychiatrist mix, who was aware of all this new research on trauma and could help navigate both this nervous system healing work and who was also qualified to help with medication 😢

[@melaniegarnett2169]

This perfectly described my symptoms of all the overwhelming feelings & trauma...Thankyou so much you really have helped me understand the how & why this is happening...i lost my children very young..i pray i heal & pray everyday they are with me xxx

[@little_dina]

That is an incredible explanation! I've never thought that all these states can coexist at the same time, it explains A LOT to me. Thank you Irene VERY MUCH

[@amyf4464]

Love how far we've come on with understanding IBS. Everything you explained about how it progresses makes absolute sense. It's not the only thing that affects me, but I'm slowly starting to come out of it. I know SBSM will help so much, looking forward to getting started.

[@eleanor4759]

This work is very challenging to do. The essence of genuine healing is feeling all the discomfort and pain you weren't able to feel during previous moments in life. Simultaneously, I've found myself in a culture that still has this reservation around, or outright "no" towards "bad" emotions (sadness, anger, etc). Before I had this somatic knowledge, I would've shut everything down in my highly sensitive system because of external circumstances. Having said all this, slowly coming out of what was pretty deep functional freeze is the greatest blessing I've ever come across. On the other side of feeling intense fear, sadness, shame, exhaustion, anxiety, heat, aching, you name it, is peace, vitality and connection that I didn't know existed 💛

[@carolinemarie6858]

I have a stammer and a few days ago, I met a friend who also has a stammer that I haven't seen for over 20yrs. That morning before I met her, I felt I had something small, stuck in my throat. It's felt like that ever since. When I watched this video ( was also tapping EFT) I started to uncontrollable cough. I didn't get a drink, I just let myself cough. It stopped after a short while. I am new to Irene and find her videos very interesting. I am going to start the 21 days tomorrow. I feel that I'm ready for it.

[@IreneLyon]

Hello @carolinemarie6858 Sophia here from Team Lyon. Thank you for your share and good to hear you decided to work on your nervous system. Feel free to share your experience in the members' area, where you can be supported by your peers, as well as our trained team of moderators with any questions you might have.

[@alllscination]

Have you worked with autistic people? I just got diagnosed and I definitely have childhood trauma. I can relate to all of this so much and I think most autistic people probably can.

[@IreneLyon]

Hi @alllscination, Seth here with Team Lyon. Yes, I have worked with autistic people as have many of my colleagues, and we have had many people who have been diagnosed with autism benefit from our online programs as well. I think the causes of what we call Autism are so varied, and the spectrum of how it presents so wide, that it will be a while until we fully understand all the nuance of what causes it, and other presentations under the neurodivergent umbrella. But one thing is clear to us in the this field, and that is that unresolved trauma, at both the intergenerational, and personal level, is a factor.

[@katiegreenwood8738]

You may find ‘it’s just my nature’ and/or ‘the Child Whisperer’ by Carol Tuttle supportive on your journey. The type 4 child. It has supported me to see my true nature and understanding where we may have had to adapt our true nature in childhood. 💖

[@lindaamendola1650]

Fantastic explanation. Thank You ,so grateful.❤

[@mamandapanda185]

2020- 2022 I was primarily in flight, then hit a wall around 2023 and have been primarily frozen since. It's exhausting.

[@erynspeers]

I'm so curious what is going on with PMDD - as it appears that the menstrual cycle is perfectly healthy, but the reaction in the brain to the hormonal shifts, is disordered. I don't think I go from fight/flight to freeze, PMDD is more like being regulated for 1/3 of the month, and then in a state of freeze for 2/3. That said... sometimes I would say the lead up and time around ovulation can actually be similar to fight/flight as it manifests (at least for me) as more anxiety, heart racing, paranoia etc. Interesting! Either way, I do need to give this stuff a solid go - as nothing else has worked, and the PMDD keeps getting worse as I age to the point where I'm 35 and still haven't been able to maintain any sort of work, so now I'm applying for disability for the second time for something that is a very invisible illness. I just need to figure out how to pay for your 21 day tune up.

[@IreneLyon]

Hello @erynspeers Thank you for your comment and feedback. We do offer monthly payment plans to accommodate those who need to budget out the cost of the program. What we often recommend to folks, who may not be able to jump into the paid programs right away, is to look at Irene's free and low-cost resources, mentioned below. This is a fantastic way to start the process of rewiring the nervous system. Blog Irene’s blog is a wealth of information and full of fantastic articles (irenelyon.com/blog/) and her KZbin channel offers even more content in video format (kzbin.info). Additionally, something that you may want to take a look at is a KZbin playlist with practical exercises: (please note these videos are not a direct replacement for the work within the courses) kzbin.info/aero/PL_tIcR-r0CU5Xss_Mq1buU-tWdYVQksjI Drop-In Classes The Drop-In Classes are focused on learning how to naturally let go of stress and tension - all via the lens of the somatic and autonomic nervous system. The intent will be to bring in more space and ease throughout the entire body by practicing the basics of nervous system embodiment, via Irene’s skills as a Somatic Experiencing, Somatic Practice and Feldenkrais practitioner. You can read more about them, and register here - irenelyon.com/drop-in-class-1. Free Downloads In addition to the blog posts, Irene has also compiled some free downloads, which cover a range of topics. If you're looking to dive into some e-books, audio programs and longer form content, that's where you'll want to go. You can find those here - irenelyon.com/free-resources-2/. Free Facebook Group If you're looking to connect with a community of like-minded people and share your own experiences, you can jump into the Healthy Nervous System Revolution Facebook Group right over here - facebook.com/groups/nervoussystem/. As you can see, we offer a wide range of free resources to folks who are looking to heal at the nervous system level but don't have a large budget. Please let us know if you have any other questions and again, thank you so much for your interest in Irene's work!

[@erynspeers]

@@IreneLyon Thank you so much! I didn't know you offered payment plans. I will take a look at that. The reason I am interested in the 21 day program is because I have already combed through much of the free content - and while I have learned a lot, I think I need a bit more structure and to dive in deeper.

[@ilovemusica11]

Have you also checked your hormones, I'm curious. I've also heard some supplements in the luteal phase can work ( magnesium, calcium, B6). I've also tested with adding more protein in breakfast & lunch. Hope this helps 💜

[@isarz1512]

very good explained!! omg and this video is just for yesterday when i just realized it.. thanksssssssssssssssssssssss

[@jmeisi]

I watch and listen. Hopping one day I might be able to come out of this state.

[@IreneLyon]

@jmeisi, Jen here from Irene's Team. I hear your hope, and want to reflect that you've found your way to this nervous system work. This is big, as understanding what's happening can be an important aspect of coming out of freeze. If you haven't yet seen it, you might be interested in Irene's personal story about coming out of functional freeze. Here's a link in case you'd like to check it out: irenelyon.com/2023/07/02/irenes-story-of-coming-out-of-functional-freeze-with-seth-lyon/

[@prishanisoldiertime]

Why... If this information has been put together are therapists and doctors not using this. I've been in therapy since 2012 and was diagnosed with fibromyalgia as an auto immune disease about 6 years ago now and constant medication which I hate. But ever since I started actually dealing with trauma in only the last 2 years has all what your saying make sense. But why have my own therapists and specialist s and doctors and everyone else not told me this. Why just keep leaving me on meds and telling me its in my head and there is no cure you have to live with it and those are things that have actually been said to me and hearing you talk now. I only found you 2 weeks ago... I just sit and cry because the pain is o unbearable I wanted it

[@IreneLyon]

@prishanisoldiertime, Jen here from Irene's Team. I'm sorry to hear you've been in a lot of pain, and can understand your frustration about not being given this info by your therapists and doctors. The good news is that the world is spreading and more practitioners (of many kinds) are becoming aware of this work all the time. And, many are still not aware of this work and the impact it can have. It's also a paradigm shift of sorts, and if someone has been practicing one way for many years (or decades) it may be challenging to open to and embrace a new way. You mentioned that you found Irene two weeks ago. Since you're pretty new around here, I wanted to make sure you've seen Irene's "New Here?" page - irenelyon.com/new-here/. Wishing you relief from your pain.

[@prishanisoldiertime]

@@IreneLyon thank you. I'm just overwhelming happy that I found you and that there seems to finally be an end or at least a solution to all this. And yes I Did! I've been binge watching for a few days now and intend to take the 12 seek course win I can

[@misscelinateloexplica]

❤ I feel like that every morning. 😢

[@mauimarianne]

As always great information!!!

[@ShadeCandle]

Interesting that you'd say freeze is the dorsal vagal state. That contradicts what I've always heard, that dorsal vagal shutdown is one thing, and freeze is a blended state of sympathetic activation and dorsal shutdown, like having one foot on the brake and the other on the gas. But anyway, I otherwise agree with the point of this video.

[@goldenaeon3511]

If I'm not mistaken, she spoke about functional freeze. That means you are in a freeze state but seem to function normally in everyday life not like a deer in the headlights.

[@IreneLyon]

@ShadeCandle, Seth here with Team Lyon. Yes, there is a fair amount of confusion about this out there in the internet world :) The freeze response is 100% a high-tone dorsal vagal response. When it first initiates in a real-time survival situation though, it is always when the Sympathetic fight/flight is at it's peak. So in that moment of frozen shock - the deer in the headlights - both systems are online for a moment as that biog emergency brake of the freeze gets activated. Then, there is the collapse phase, and this is when the dorsal vagal freeze response fully takes over. When one is living in functional freeze, that high-tone dorsal vagal system is on, to some degree, all the time underneath the surface, numbing us to our experience, which is a different situation than that acute moment of real time survival. Hope that clarifies.

[@renettedesousa4137]

❤ thank you for the video

[@MrHandoverfist]

Thank you so much ☺️

[@TheAnettesan]

I'd be interested in some videos on how to work with the stress organs, for us who cannot afford SSBM at the moment! I know you have a heart meditation video, are there any other sinilar ones out there?

[@IreneLyon]

Hi @The Anettesan - Mara here with Team Lyon. Check out this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pXiWgYWEjad3a8U Look also at Irene's free resources: irenelyon.com/free-resources/ The adrenal fatigue webinar may help. Some of the Drop-In classes may also be of interest: irenelyon.com/drop-in-class-replays/

[@TheAnettesan]

@@IreneLyon thanks, this is helpful! I'm working my way through the free resources :)

[@isarz1512]

intresting topic.. didnt think about it..

[@rakaialove]

Yes, I so relate with this.

[@rebeccamcclellan5284]

Read the book Change Your Diet Change Your Mind by Georgia Ede MD. The food you're eating is driving your mental health including anxiety, depression, schizophrenia, OCD.

[@tarakadir9259]

Thank you 🙏🏻 ❤

[@connieschwarz6023]

would you say that the current situation(s) worldwide and the media are detrimental to a person in this state? i would think so. and with that in mind, would you recommend that people going through their healing and trauma refrain from using devices and watching the news?

[@IreneLyon]

@connieschwarz6023, Jen here from Irene's Team. Yes, reading about events happening around the world can definitely contribute to feelings of stress and anxiety, especially in those of us prone to these feelings. Taking a break from the news and from devices or limiting exposure to these can often be supportive as someone engages with this work.

[@northstarearthstar]

Thankyou!

[@ID1visor]

Absolutely.

[@kellyschroeder7437]

Sounds like me …..

[@pastellr.4534]

Thanks for the video. 🩷 After watching a lot of your videos I'm sometimes confused. For example I watched yours about Seths story and that he tried to manage "everything" back then because of the disregulation. I felt bad than because I thougt it's a bad thing to try to "manage" it. But as I'm living with the symptoms mentioned in the video I have no other way and chance. Through the video I feel empowered in that. Perhaps you could make a video on copying mechanisms and how they help till one has more regulation? To this Video: I feel quite ok when I'm at Home but cant do much or go out with a good feeling as the adrenaline sparks up than and I get lost. Of course I try it everyday but its still sooo hard and when I get back (after 1-2 hours at a max) I feel so stressed. I can feel now that I totally cant manage or more regulate the adrenaline and as it happened often enough I'm always scared to try it in top. Even the exercises of you are too much. I feel directly resistance when I think of that and dont have the power to stick to it. So any ideas how more tiny steps could look like? Just for information I have an SE Practitioner to help every 2-4 weeks and we go very slowly but I would like to do something myself to support it. Thanks for an answer. Lovely greetings from Germany ❤️🙏

[@IreneLyon]

@pastellr.4534, Jen here from Irene's Team. To offer a little clarification, we do the best we can before and as we start to explore this work - and this can include managing. I saw your request for a video on coping mechanisms. This may not be exactly what you're referring to and you might be interested in this video of Irene's: irenelyon.com/2013/05/19/the-origins-of-our-coping-mechanisms-when-were-stressed-and-why-we-can-blame-our-parents/ I also hear that the exercises are too much. This can be common for some of us as we come to this work. When this is the case, doing just a little at a time (this might be 30 seconds or a minute or a practice) can often be helpful. As you may know from your work with your SE, we call this "titration" in this work. I'll link to a related video. irenelyon.com/2020/04/26/titration-explained-never-rush-trauma-healing/ I also invite you to check out Irene's 21 Day Nervous System Tune Up. It's helped many of us to grow a foundation of regulation and it can be a lovely complement to working 1:1 with an SEP. Here's a link if you'd like to check it out: 21daytuneup.com/

[@stephaniecortese7871]

Eileen, how can I work directly with you?

[@IreneLyon]

Hello @stephaniecortese7871 Sophia here from Team Lyon. Thank you very much for your comment and inquiry. Irene is not taking private clients at this time, but there are a few ways in which you can work with her. The 21 Day Nervous System Tune-Up is a self-study online course that teaches you basics of healing trauma and nervous system health. It’s the perfect blend of polyvagal theory and somatic neurosensory exercises to get you started on this journey. Then, if you want to dive deeper, you can check out the more in-depth SmartBody SmartMind™ (SBSM™) program. SBSM™ is an online group program that runs in 12-week ‘semesters’ once or twice a year, and teaches you how to become your own medicine. Its focus is to restore nervous system regulation through polyvagal-informed education, practical neurosensory exercises, and interactive support. irenelyon.com/programs/ If you are looking to find a practitioner for private sessions, Irene strongly suggests taking some time to watch a video she created detailing “How to find a good practitioner.” kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZmW7d2p3g9Okfc0 We also recommend taking a look over the Team Lyon page as many have their own practices and accept clients. irenelyon.com/meet-the-team/ Two directories that might be of help are: Somatic Experiencing practitioners: directory.traumahealing.org/ Feldenkrais practitioners: feldenkrais.com/practitioner-search/ Once again, thank you for your interest in working with Irene and we wish you the best on your healing journey.

[@Gerhold102]

The idea of "transgenerational trauma" is not something I've picked up from your teaching(s) before. Is this a trauma that can infiltrate the body via the mother's earlier trauma, even before, well before, the fœtus becomes viable?

[@JenSell1626]

Epigenetic research is suggesting yes, it is passed down. There are new therapeutics, and hopefully in the next year insurance covers them because I have fully embraced trying all the other things. I don't think it is a panacea, but I think it might be the missing tool I am ready for 🤞

[@IreneLyon]

Hi @Gerhold102, Seth here with Team Lyon. Yes, it is becoming increasingly clear that epigenetics is real, that unresolved trauma effects the genome, and that those effects can be passed down the family line. This study of mothers who were pregnant during 9/11 was one of the seminal studies in this area, which has led to a lot more... www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7442658/

[@Gerhold102]

@@IreneLyon Thank you, Seth. My mother lived through the 'blitz' bombing of British cities during WW2. I was born a decade after but I've noticed I have negative reactions to stimuli that I haven't personally experienced but she would have done.

[@bloooeyes3]

Can 80+ years of functional freeze be the cause of Neuropathy. And can it be resolved with this work ??

[@IreneLyon]

@bloooeyes3, Jen here from Team Lyon. It's possible that 80+ years of functional freeze could be contributing to neuropathy. People start this work at any age and can experience change, and whether the neuropathy could full resolve might depend on if and how much the nerves have been impacted by what's contributing to the neuropathy. If you want to learn more about Irene's work, you might check out here New Here page? - irenelyon.com/new-here/

[@Curiopus]

✨❤️💫

[@kellyschroeder7437]

Me

[@andriyandriychuk]

Yes especially in the presence of your abuser.

[@isarz1512]

omg