Is it time to scrap electric cars? With Rory Sutherland | SpectatorTV

[@stuartwood5448]

I wouldn’t ban EVs nor would I ban any other type of fuel- let them compete on their own merits with the same level of taxation and regulation

[@fraggit]

That's EV's out the window then. Without subsidies, EV's are never going to compete.

[@davefitzpatrick4841]

@@fraggit you do know the oill industry receives subsidies? Since 2015 the oil industry from the UK government has received over £20 billion more than renewables , strange that , perhaps if we take all subsidies away we'll get a more even playing field 👍

[@dellawrence4323]

We don't want to be "mandated" to buy EV's or heat pumps or anything else, and we don't want a CBDC, just leave us alone before you make us angry, you wouldn't like us when we are angry.

[@stuartwood5448]

@@davefitzpatrick4841 the oil industry doesn’t receive any subsidies- it has tax breaks like any other company to offset set losses on capital projects like cleaning up old oil rigs etc - they also it 70-80% wind tax on all U.K. profits

[@fraggit]

@@davefitzpatrick4841 And EV's will die. If more is given to oil, it just shows it works, electricity doesn't, what's your point? With all the push to renewables, you can't seriously say it's not as heavily subsidised, or more. Don't think I'm totally against electrification, if it works, then so be it. But why should the less well off be forced to adopt a technology that isn't viable yet. If you're fortunate enough to be able to blow £100,000 on panels, battery storage, air source heating and an EV, you may break even one day, but not everybody has that sort of capital to fork out. That's why only the well off have the luxury of going electric, they can absorb the losses.

[@jeanettecameron7530]

I don't want the government to force me to buy anything. I will decide if I want one or not.

[@ObiePaddles]

They can incentivise and I’m happy with that. EVs reduce expenditure in the Nation Health as emissions in towns kill people. Do its a good idea to incentivise people to do that.

[@GT380man]

@@ObiePaddlesEvidence that emissions as they actually are “kill people”. I’m not sure that was true thirty years ago. With emissions reduction control, tailpipe gases are as clean as the air entering the air filter. CO2, water vapour and heat is pretty much it. So I disagree with your assertion.

[@stephennewell6628]

@@ObiePaddles maybe so, but the pollution and deaths have just been moved to those countries mining cobalt and Lithium etc.

[@ObiePaddles]

@@stephennewell6628 Pollution is definitely less and moved from main city centres to places where electricity is produced, but at least less dense population and can have no emissions if renewables. 50% of Lithium comes from Australia and there are no issues there. Cobalt is used in every litre of fuel as it is used to desulpherise fuel so this is not an ICE vs EV thing. In fact over half of all EVs in 2023 had LFP batteries which have no cobalt or Nickel. So my LFP batteries EV contributes to no deaths in countries mining cobalt, whereas every ICE car does every day.

[@ObiePaddles]

@@GT380man I’ve been looking for studies on tailpipe emissions from new diesels and petrol but havent managed to do so. If you have a link to the information I would be genuinely grateful.

[@ChrisBNisbet]

If EVs were obviously 'better' than ICE cars, people wouldn't need convincing to buy them.

[@martinostlund1879]

They don’t, we just bought our second one.

[@Leggey]

@@martinostlund1879you may not but the majority of the country do.

[@gebirg1]

They can't convince people so they're forcing them.

[@ejbh3160]

unless the majority of people are just numb nutz who listen to msm like the Spectator

[@mohammadwasilliterate8037]

*New cars worldwide stats are 13% EV and increasing in first quarter of 2024, they have one moving part in the engine and no transmission, you can charge free on your own solar panels, even the brakes last over 4yrs, so it's just a matter of time.* 😂😂😂

[@fortuner123]

The only thing I'd ban is the government.

[@wolfgangpreier9160]

Good idea. Anarchy!

[@marviwilson1853]

Pretty silly comment really. A bit childish. A general election is coming you have a vote.

[@linmal2242]

So.....Anarchy is your cause?

[@LSD04]

@@marviwilson1853you’re right, problem is they’re all tossers

[@greggmckenzie7132]

@@linmal2242 Anarchy is the opposite of Monarchy, so, yes!

[@eddie1330]

Let's face it electric vehicles are fine for some people in fact we have an electric car but we are retired and do very few miles, and we are lucky enough to be able to charge at home. For millions of people that is not the case.

[@mohammadwasilliterate8037]

*70% of America lives in houses with power points, add solar, charge free.* 😂😂😂😂

[@derekdrummond7544]

@@mohammadwasilliterate8037 Are solar panels free then ?

[@richardlewis5316]

So based on the fact you do little mileage does it make sense to buy and expensive EV with a battery has been manufactured creating much pollution - rather than a simple ICE car as your 'saving of CO2 is so miniscule it is irrelevant and will not make an iota of difference.

[@janettetaylor8760]

U be con it's a scam .. if u drove that piece of crap to Scotland u won't get far... Scotland has not Charing points

[@jeroendebruyne2165]

​@@mohammadwasilliterate8037 In Europe they don't. Many people in lower or lower middle class live in (rented) houses or apartments without a private parking spot or driveway and no solar (privately owned) solar. They often work in shifts which makes a car an almost necessity to get to work and back for many of them. A expensive (even atsecond hand) EV which is very reliable until the battery pack gets dented which is a direct write off is NOT a solution for many many people here.

[@bea1365]

As ex Military I know that whenever the Government incentivizes anything, it's not in your best interest.

[@mohammadwasilliterate8037]

Government has been subsidizing oil production for many decades😂😂😂

[@g0rd0nfreeman]

@@mohammadwasilliterate8037 How? I've heard this said a lot and it makes no sense to me. Firstly, the oil isn't produced in the UK, so why would the government send subsidies to the OPEC countries? And more than half of the cost is fuel duty and VAT, so if anyone's subsidizing anything, it's the general public and businesses subsidizing the government.

[@achangyw]

LOL

[@EvoraGT430]

@@g0rd0nfreeman Have you looked into the North Sea recently? Wonder what all those rigs are doing there?

[@2ndavenuesw481]

They do give things to those who aren't of the same stock as the nation. Israel comes first, then all the migrants.

[@JohnDelong-qm9iv]

Let people decide . The govt. serves the people . The tail mustn’t wag the dog.

[@thesmallnotesduo]

I never took the jab, stayed home during lockdown, wore a mask, etc. And most people still think I'm a nut job. The dog is still being wagged my friend

[@EvoraGT430]

@@thesmallnotesduo Edward Jenner. You're being wagged by nut-jobs.

[@marviwilson1853]

The people decide at the general election. There is a new one on the way - make your choice now. If none of the parties put forward your view then you need to start your own political party.

[@lassepeterson2740]

@@marviwilson1853 People decide every day with their actions and their dollar / pound .

[@kevinashurst634]

Let the people decide - seriously??? We have democratically elected governments to make decisions on behalf of the population. Left to their own devices people would just create chaos.

[@SimonWallwork]

The things have their place- but not universally suitable. Let them stand on their merits, and those whose needs suit EVs buy one. They are not for everyone, doing everything, all the time.

[@steverobsondiecast]

Maybe in the long term the EV will come up but given the short timeline given plus the possible shortages of materials needed (copper etc) will limit growth. One has to consider that one can also go backwards as shown in history. Going back to the horse when many of the materials needed our modern tech runs out or becomes expensive as the amount runs low. We cannot predict the future. Progress can move in any direction. Think of the game of snakes and ladders.

[@SimonWallwork]

@EnriqueThiele Bollocks.

[@kevinsmith3343]

@@steverobsondiecast Known reserves of lithium are enough for decades of production and exploration is in its infancy. Demand for some components are falling or disappearing rapidly. My EV has a lithium battery with no cobalt, nickel or manganese - LFP. More battery technologies are indeed coming thick and fast, and my battery can't burst into flames...

[@marviwilson1853]

EV's are in rapid development. 600 mile per charge EV's will be with us shortly. When thinking about EV's you have to bare in mind this process of development we are going through and where it will end up.

[@14caz68]

One minute we’re told the national grid can’t cope with lighting our kitchens and putting the kettle on. Yet we’re pushed to buy cars that travel 120 miles ( if lucky) and require charging from the national grid. Of course big assumption everyone has a driveway to park on. Not every driver lives in a house with space ….

[@andybrice2711]

Yeah, but people wouldn't all be fast-charging their cars simultaneously. They'd mostly be trickle-charging them overnight when other demand is low. There are various problems with EVs. But I don't think this is one of them.

[@stevetodd7383]

There are a number of on-street charging points near where I live. There’s no reason that this infrastructure can’t be expanded. Just because something isn’t practical now doesn’t mean that it can’t become practical.

[@romanpolanski4928]

Even on slow charging an EV requires a heavy current.

[@robertcook2572]

​@@andybrice2711They wouldn't, though. There are relatively tiny numbers of electric cars on the road and yet they all seem to be hooked up to public chargers in broad daylight

[@robertcook2572]

​@@stevetodd7383How does that work in the countless miles of terraced housing with cars parked on both sides of the road up and down the country?

[@-DC-]

Electric cars are so popular my local Peugeot dealer has EV 208's Brand new 24 Plate List Price 33k currently sat on the Forecourt for 18k lol.

[@ObiePaddles]

Do th comment they are too expensive isn’t exactly true is it?

[@martinostlund1879]

Well a good time to buy it then, what are you waiting for?

[@thesmallnotesduo]

The cost in terms of being controlled makes ANY price too high.

[@martinostlund1879]

@@thesmallnotesduo maby you are being controlled to keep buying fuel and sending your money to big oil?

[@thesmallnotesduo]

@@martinostlund1879 If so, you me all of us can travel independently, by car air etc heat our homes work places etc basically live our lives. The alternative is far far worse my friend. Now that IS control

[@leemo2000]

I charge mine at home overnight. Costs me $4.80 here in Australia to charge to 100% overnight and free using my solar when I’m home during the day. If I need to charge when I’m not at home it costs me around $25 and takes 35-40 minutes.

[@michaelputnam2532]

I thought Australia was famous for showing owners with solar panels to recharge for free overnight...

[@leemo2000]

@@michaelputnam2532I don't have a battery connected to my solar

[@edgar-valentine]

You must have a small battery or are you just topping up?

[@leemo2000]

@@edgar-valentine 60KW battery BYD Atto3. I have a 7kw at home and so takes 8-9hrs to charge.

[@davidparker7920]

Same here. I live in France and have owned an Ev since 2019. 80,000 of my 110,000 km have been powered from my solar panels. To drive that far in the most economical fossil car would have cost me about €10,000 at todays petrol prices. We have driven to the UK, Spain, Germany and Switzerland in this car and never had a problem finding rapid chargers en route.

[@h2489-m2l]

I worry that electric cars have such a limited lifespan they have become throw away consumables. Whereas Toyota can make a car that can survive 25 years in a hostile environment and still keep going. It may burn fuel, but is it worse all in?

[@davefitzpatrick4841]

My 8 year old EV ( built with now old technology) will last 15-20 years. Most EVs will easily do 300k miles without maintenance ( apart from basic mechanical) . The average car is scrapped in the UK at 107k miles 👍

[@h2489-m2l]

@@davefitzpatrick4841 but the batteries aren't warrantied past 10 years..

[@stevetodd7383]

Erm, most EVs are good for in excess of 200,000 miles. The drive trains are much simpler and more reliable than ICE. There’s at least one Tesla with over 600,000 KM achieved on the original battery. How many Toyota’s can manage that kind of distance on the original engine and gearbox?

[@davefitzpatrick4841]

@@h2489-m2l car engine warranties are on average 60k miles or 5 years ( if you maintain them correctly with the service agreement) EV batteries warranties are for 8 years or 100,000 miles .

[@h2489-m2l]

@stevetodd7383 that's amazing, most I've seen have had their batteries long deteriorated before they reach 10 years old.

[@andinic2]

As much as I enjoy Rory’s left field rhetoric on most subjects, I am also fully aware that his paymaster at ad agency, Olgilvy and Mather, is non other than Ford Motor company. No surprise, therefore, he is one of the few people driving a Mach-e and singing the praises of EV’s.

[@mikehunt-w8u]

They are a massive pile of junk.There has been one sitting on the for court of my local ford dealership.Its been there for 6 months,no ones going near it.Calling them a Mustang is an insult to ones intelligence.

[@JJ-zg1hh]

​@mikehunt-w8u if you were to drive one you might change your view. They're so fast that they almost deserve the Mustang branding for that alone.

[@betadevb]

@@mikehunt-w8u Ford still sells the number 1 car in multiple countries - Ford F, Ranger etc. No one wants your dumbass battery charger.

[@nr5494]

BUT Ford also make ICE vehicles, so why would he be biased?

[@SierraSierraFoxtrot]

Ford is to Tesla what Boeing is to SpaceX.

[@primafacie6442]

Public fast charging extortion in the UK charging up to 85p per KWh, insane! In fact the UK domestic electricity rates prices are double that of most other countries. Rip off Britain.

[@showme360]

Yet I can still save £1000 a year for each car we have, and still afford 4 trips using public chargers, we just shop around, and so I guess your reffing to Instavolt is the most expensive at 85p per kWh. The prices very greatly from 45p to 85 p. Anything upto 65p is matching the ICE car running costs.

[@BlackhawkPilot]

As a retiree I purchased an EV nine years ago with 80-100 mile range. It fulfills 95+% of my needs. I also have a pickup (Ute) to tow my travel trailer three or four times a year and the very few times II need to drive more than 100 miles in a day.

[@jamesm90]

@@BlackhawkPilot you've highlighted the problem beautifully, you need two cars and so will everyone else, so you may as well buy a car that does both jobs in the first place, that car being an internal combustion engine.

[@NathanKeith-xy3uf]

​@@jamesm90 James: My answer is no. Why? Because I drive a very high percentage of my miles around town. After nine years my Mercedes BEV is now only worth about $5K, has a fairly low insurance rate, etc. making it a very inexpensive vehicle to own. My tow vehicle (2004 F150 with 66K miles) is only fully insured about three months a year when we vacation. The Total Cost of Operation for the BEV is about $0.20/mile and the F150 is about $0.45 per mile. Just way easier on my pocketbook to own both.

[@malpadog1954]

@BlackhawkPilot I'm the same..have an ev for short trips etc and a diesel tray for longer distance and carrying capacity (wood etc)...both have pluses and minises but suit my purposes.

[@BlackhawkPilot]

@ It is all about the three “Fs”, Form Follows Function.

[@Chicago327]

He is conveniently missing, or unaware of the inherent disadvantages of EV’s. The Mustang E is a sales bomb, and Ford and other manufacturers are choking on EV’s. Then there is the insurance which is very costly, the tires that wear out in as little as 10,000 miles, because of the extra vehicle weight, the places of business that are now prohibiting electric vehicles in their parking garages or on their site do to fires…they even burn under water, and they emit toxic gases, and explode, resale value drops like a heavy rock, and I could go on, but hopefully you will do your research before you even consider buying one. One blatantly obvious clue that the whole push to EV‘s is not about saving the planet, or they would not build them to accelerate to 60 mph in as little as two or three seconds; twice or more as fast to 60 as 95% of drivers have ever experienced.

[@Aspartame69]

Its a good point about energy usage, dangling the carrot of idiotic acceleration would not be required if the whole package made sense in general.

[@zorot3876]

And the reason the insurance is high is because a small accident causing a dent in the battery pack and it's a write off.

[@Aspartame69]

@@zorot3876 Yep, no technician would declare a battery safe after any minor bump as they wouldnt want to be liable for a failure. So every accident involved batter needs to be dismantled and tested, cell by cell.

[@christopherwhitehead8946]

There isn’t the capacity in the industry to repair EVs quickly safely and cheaply. There are only 3 VW despair centres for EVs in the whole country.

[@marviwilson1853]

Early digital cameras only had 2 Mega pixel CCD's and cost hundreds. The first flat screen TV's were poor quality, unreliable and cost thousands. Learn from history my friend. Like you, they all would have said that flat screens, digital cameras, and those electronic computer things were not the future! EV's are coming that will do 1000 miles on a charge, Have batteries made from cheap, environmentally friendly materials. Charge is minutes and last forever with no degradation.

[@krueltality]

I think this discussion missed out the shortfalls of electric vehicles, it's more than just "batteries".

[@ObiePaddles]

List them.

[@krueltality]

@ObiePaddles you can use the Internet and search yourself, but off the top of my head: -batteries derive from finite resources and often aren't recyclable. - The electricity to charge vehicles often derives from non-renewable sources. - The mining for battery ores not only damages the planet, it also impacts local communities. Feel free to google wars & child labour taking place in Congo. - EVs much more heavier, which impacts their efficiency. - EV get far less range in the winter. - Obvious one is it takes several minutes ro charge, vs the few mins it takes to fill up a tank.

[@Hickalum]

@@ObiePaddles Incredibly high depreciation. Very high insurance. They often take months to repair due to lack of dealer expertise. Range anxiety. Range is highly variable dependant on ancillaries in use. Range reduces over time. Battery life is heavily dependant on charge method; dc or ac, slow or fast. Should only be charged to 80% to optimise battery life. Should not be run more than 20% empty to optimise battery life. There is no indicator or display to show battery life when you buy a used one. Will depreciate to almost zero when approaching battery replacement. It's highly dubious whether they are more green anyway due to shorter life. Extremely difficult to extinguish when on fire. Personally I would never park one next to my house or leave passengers in it. Not even the dog! Need to be thrown away after a collision. Will soon be banned from ferries and Euro Tunnel.

[@ObiePaddles]

@@krueltality thanks for your list. Internet is full of FUD so ignore 99% of that. As a starter EVs are not great for the planet, they are less worse than ICE cars and don’t kill people with tailpipe emissions. So when I say ‘same as for oil’ I’m not happy it just invalidates the argument as to why EVs are bad / worse. Finite resources: same argument for oil. Except the more we need the resources the more we find. When I did an economics degree in the early 802 the prediction was oil would run out by about the turn of the century. New batteries looking like they will be sodium and there’s an almost infinite supply of that. Charging from non-renewables: Obviously less than ideal. Even under 100% coal charging the overall CO2 emissions are less because ICE verhicles are so inefficient and lose 70% of energy at point of consumption. Tail pipe emissions are not impacted to cities do have cleaner air, even if those newer power plants dont (tend to be away from population. Mining damages planet: well oil industry does at a much greater rate. Congo: EVs companies are part of an industry group that doesnot buy from the ‘artisanal mines’. Oil needs cobalt to desulperise it to make petrol and diesel. Oil companies not part of the organisation funnily enough. Every litre of petrol or diesel needs cobalt and contributes to Congo issue. If you are serious about not using minerals from Congo buy an EV with an LFP battery as they are the only ones that dont use any of these minerals. Let me know when you’ve bought one, or was this just a talking point? EVs are on average heavier, they are still more efficient users of energy than ICE cars. I’d like to see more city EVs with smaller batteries so lighter. Still energy density getting better. Range in winter is lower. Norwegians seem to cope. It can be a pain though. ‘Obvious one’ is actually mostly wrong, Bur can be right in some situations. If you charge at home it takes about 30 seconds to plug in / unplug every day., so I am only impacted on long journeys They do take longer than an ICE car to fill on a road trip for sure. In 3 years I have only once had a trip where the time to charge a battery impacted travel time. This is because my car does about 3.5 hours between charges on a long run, and I stop for coffee / food / comfort breaks anyway on that timeframe (you might not). Normally I have to ‘run back to the car’ as the charge finishes faster than my food. Others may not stop on this timeframe and so will be impacted on long journeys.

[@ObiePaddles]

@@Hickalum thanks for the list. Let me have a go at answering. Depreciation: high right now, they were appreciating a couple of years ago. Depreciation is normal for a car and they do seem high right now, particularly some brands. Insurance: depends what ‘very high’ is. Seems to be mostly cost of car related than EV related. My insurance is about the same as a similarly priced ICE car but can’t speak for others. Time to repair: yes this would be a pain. Getting better as early days but that’s no consolation today. Range anxiety: I’ve never had it. There can be ‘charger anxiety’ as some networks have poor reliability. Range varies on ancillaries: true of all cars and manageable. Only real one to worry about is HVAC. Range does reduce over time as battery does degrade with all today’s chemistries. That is changing already and I suspect will be practically solved in the next 5 years or so. Battery life is less dependent on how it’s charged than people initially thought. If you ultrafast charge all the time it does have an impact. 20-80% rule: this applies to some cars as LFP batteries are charged to 100% everyday. When it applies it is the ‘everyday’ rule rather than ‘at all times’. Doing s long run then charge to 100% night before and go below 20%. Do this everyday on some chemistries and it will have an impact. Indicator: I assume you mean battery health. You can run diagnostics and some cars do have this information that you can see via a free app and OBD2 dongle Depreciate to almost zero when needs battery replacement: very rare to have battery replacement and ICE engines blow up too. Battery has a value either as a 2nd life battery or for the chemicals that are 95+ recyclable. EVs will have a higher end of life value than ICE simply because of battery value. Dubious whether more green due to shorter life: all studies show they are. No reason to think they have shorter life. Batteries warranted for 7-8 years and 100,000 miler so expectation is a lot longer than that. Have. A look here: finance.yahoo.com/news/battery-recycling-shatters-myth-electric-150004604.html Difficult to extinguish: true. Thank goodness they are so rare. electrek.co/2022/01/12/government-data-shows-gasoline-vehicles-are-significantly-more-prone-to-fires-than-evs/ Personally you would never…: do what you want. We do all the things you wouldn’t. Thrown away after collision: depends on the collision for both EV and ICE. New car construction methods are getting hard to repair for sure. Thank goodness the EV has a valuable battery to sell Euro Tunnel ban: that would be bad if it happens.

[@surferdude4487]

Massive Tesla fan-boy checking in here. The facts you need to know: 1) Today, only Tesla and to a much lesser extent BYD are making any money selling BEVs. 2) Losing money on every unit you sell is NOT a sustainable business model. 3) Therefore it follows that every other auto manufacturer is pulling back on their BEV production and goals. As much as I love Tesla vehicles, as awesome as BEVs can be and some of them are, mass adoption is going to be slow walked until such time as ICE vehicles no longer make sense. Tesla has already made it to the other side of the great divide, but so far, nobody else has managed to make BEVs make economic sense. That has to change. Tesla needs real competition and consumers need more real choices. I'm dead-set against government restrictions, mandates, tariffs and subsidies. All these controlling activities end up coming out of my pocket with no benefit to me. When BEVs make sense to consumers, we'll buy them. I don't need Big Brother telling me what to do.

[@polla2256]

Yep and geopolitics is a major factor. Only start up companies with massive investment can compete as ICE makers are reluctant to build new platforms and retool their industry. China is the only country right now who can provide such competition but the West sees it as a threat. Then you have cross-industry innovation, it doesn't exist. Trains use IGBT's and some manufacturers have SiCIGBT which means ultra efficiency, they also have PMM's. This is an industrial revolution and the old guard is on its last legs.

[@AaronMichaelLong]

Plug-in hybrids have the same drawbacks that EVs have: You still need a garage to park and charge it to get value from the feature, you still can't drive for very long distances with it, and you wind up spending more time gassing up and get terrible mileage because you're lugging this now-useless battery around, and the battery is still going to need replacement, which is a massive long-term upkeep cost. The only merit is that you at least don't have to blow 30 minutes per stop waiting at a charging station on long trips and you can gas up anywhere.

[@christophercharles3169]

Mr. Sutherland has indicated that purchasing a new car is a conscience decision to subsidies someone else's purchase of a used vehicle down the road due to the depreciation you are taking on. While this may be true, assuming you don't drive your cars into the ground like I do, it should not be compared to government subsidies you may or may not support. The time for those subsidies has elapsed. Tax dollars should no longer be used to help the well off purchase vehicles when the number of people living in tent communities and visiting soup kitchens increases every day.

[@fredfred2363]

Last time I had a new car, it was a company car. I bought it off the business and kept it for a total of 22 years. Rust killed it in the end.

[@iliyakuryakin4671]

No subsidy involved. The new car purchaser gets the benefits of a vehicles with new technology that is less likely to break down and has a warranty to cover lots of circumstances in which it does. The new car purchasers know the vehicle will have value when it is sold second hand and factors into that into their purchase decision. The old car purchaser gets something cheaper but less reliable and missing features that new car possess; the vehicles is likely to have an older and less fuel efficient engine. The market determines the difference between new and used car prices.

[@christophercharles3169]

@@iliyakuryakin4671 Good points.

[@KeithCollyer]

Rather like a Daily Mail question headline, the answer is always "NO!"

[@TriviaChallenge]

And just for the record, EV sales are up year-on-year, every year. It's nonsense EVs sales are stopping or even slowing.

[@SierraSierraFoxtrot]

Exactly. They might be slowing in some markets, but there's also a recession thanks to the Bidenistas and also a war in Europe... But I know in Israel people are buying electric cars, and not just Teslas. There's a healthy market for smaller electric cars as well as much larger cars for big families. Electric vans for businesses as well.

[@AutoAndChill]

Why have Fiat paused production then? Why have Ford said they'll change tactic? Why has almost every car maker said that?

[@SierraSierraFoxtrot]

@@AutoAndChill because their cars suck and newer car companies are taking all their business.

[@polla2256]

​@@AutoAndChillbecause they have lost and will soon become irrelevant

[@MARTINA-gc3tq]

My son was involved in a minor car accident a few weeks ago. His Mercedes SUV ICE was taken in for repair and his insurance company delivered a BMW Xi. He had to drive from Harrow to Stansted Airport the next day. The battery was only 20% charged on delivery. He ran a lead through his sitting room window and plugged in the car. It informed his that the car would be charged by tomorrow afternoon!

[@martinostlund1879]

Or he could spend 10 minutes at a DC fast charger, problem solved.

[@MARTINA-gc3tq]

@@martinostlund1879 or maybe deliver an ICE car.

[@mohammadwasilliterate8037]

Imagine how hard it is to get gasoline to your house, electricity is far easier to find and a lot cheaper😂😂😂

[@MARTINA-gc3tq]

@@mohammadwasilliterate8037 it certainly isn’t cheaper.

[@markthomas7279]

​@@MARTINA-gc3tqhmmmm I think you'll find it is!!

[@markovilla1]

My word... a sensible conversation on the issue without any proselytizing....

[@iainharris6201]

Btw Ford lost $130000 on your Mach E They lose such on every EV sold Thats why they are retrenching

[@primafacie6442]

Ford should have named it the Shetland, it’s the lowest volume selling EV in Australia

[@David-bl1bt]

Because they are totally clueless about how to make an EV efficiently because their production mind set is still in the 1800's

[@hughesy606]

Fact check?

[@iainharris6201]

Fact check what aspect? Ford CEO has been very clear as to the scale of the problem they face. Indeed he’s now gone further re the risk to the western manufacturers from China.

[@thalesofmiletus2966]

An e-bike with a throttle is an excellent small vehicle. Shame the authorities make them illegal in the UK.

[@paulharrison7761]

It’s not the bikes it’s the idiots that use them. Why give a killing machine to an idiot with no road sense and no insurance. Make a driving test and insurance compulsory

[@clovermark39]

And we dont have good bike infrastructure. Just bits and bobs here and there that doesn’t lead to anywhere useful. Then when you get there, there isn’t safe and secure places to park your bike while you go shopping or in someplace for a cuppa.

[@cleanhit777]

They're fine apart from the two that wheelie past my house everyday doing 40 in a 30 limit. Tax them, insure them, and register them, then off you go, I'm all for it.

[@achangyw]

Terrible for practical useful products to be banned by authorities.

[@thesmallnotesduo]

My 94 year old granny loves hers - she praises the Gov everyday. She hated her car like we all should.

[@anthonyrobb4858]

The world's copper production limits will be the main reason for eventual BEV failure.

[@Hickalum]

Correct … The network from substations to homes is nowhere near adequate. Every urban street will need to be dug up and the cable capacity doubled, at least. That’s tens of thousands of miles of copper thick enough to carry a thousand amps !

[@mohammadwasilliterate8037]

Copper production lol, so when you think we will run out of copper without EVs ya know lots of things use copper, even gasoline cars😂😂😂

[@mohammadwasilliterate8037]

​@@HickalumYa know you can charge at night when the demand is low and use solar panels for free power right? 😂😂😂

[@openminded3763]

@@mohammadwasilliterate8037 EVs alone use 3 times as much copper as ICE cars but the main copper issue is having enough for all the charging points where much heavier cables are needed and which get larger in line with the demand for ever faster charge times. Do a bit of research before you make light of others. You will find that leaders of the copper mining industry know there is just not enough copper mines to sustain the planned EV infrastructure as well as everything else needing copper.

[@denisripley8699]

@@openminded3763 Aluminium, although not as conductive as Copper, is lighter, easier to produce and more abundant. Copper theft has increasingly steered industry to use Aluminium too.

[@animal355]

A good product simply sells, no incentives or mandatory government intervention. It sells. The EV isn't a good product that is a good fit for all. It needs to be able to sit alongside the other choices, like how the open market works.

[@nauxsi]

There is no open market.

[@animal355]

@@nauxsi you're absolutely right

[@warrensmith4590]

The concept of a micro car for commuters has failed repeatedly for the last 50 years. Small cars that were usable for many things thrived.

[@mydogsbutler]

Ill informed conservative clickbait. EVs continue to take marketshare from ICE globally. Chinese EVs in particular are exploding in sales, value and features with over 50 percent of new car sales in China being EVs. CATL recently began manufacturing 6c battery for EV partners who are in the process of using then in 2025 model. They will have over 500 mile range can charge in 10 minutes and will cost less than similarly featured ICE vehicles..

[@Em-bv7oo]

What about those of us who live in flats and terraced houses and can't plug in cars at home, and can't spend time sat at service stations to charge the car? Petrol/diesel allows us to get into the car and go somewhere at the drop of a hat. Electric cars suit driveway owners but a lot of us don't have that luxury.

[@larx4074]

Simples, they don't want you to have your own personal transport......................

[@robertmaslin3844]

Also it's costly to charge away from home.

[@Leggey]

The same people would probably want you to sell off your own travel autonomy and use public transport.

[@marviwilson1853]

EV batteries will come that will do 1000 miles on a single charge. Many will only need to charge their vehicles once a month. It then becomes irrelevant where you live.

[@showme360]

Currently the UK government is funding landlords who own flats to install chargers. If you have a terrace house most these days have removed there garden to park thier ICE cars, plus there are methods that allow on street charging. But its down to the local council to allow planning, unfortunitly most Tory councils support such methods! I wonder why?

[@scottwhittaker4959]

The guest made a good case for electric vehicles. The problem is the government deciding these things for us. At least he put in a good word for the marketplace.

[@bacburrito4225]

He made no case at all, woeful journalism.

[@IOSALive]

The Spectator, This is fantastic! I subscribed because I love it!

[@Smith_Tech_70]

2:09 "Whereas electric cars run on crude oil" needs correcting to "ICE cars run on crude oil". Let's get the facts straight please. A slip of the tongue from Rory.

[@andybrice2711]

The problem is we're trying to jump straight from petrol to EV. And that technology just isn't ready for universal adoption yet. For the vast majority of use-cases, plug-in hybrids would be optimal.

[@nickgood8166]

It'll never be 'ready', because of chemistry and physics. It's an unworkable solution to a non problem.

[@andybrice2711]

​@@nickgood8166 That seems like a nonsensical argument. The technology already exists, and it's pretty good, it's just much too expensive.

[@davelowe1977]

@@andybrice2711 he's right. EVs were superseded in 1885 because of range problems and energy density. Nothing has changed in 140 years.

[@andybrice2711]

​@@davelowe1977 ​I think that's a ridiculous argument which is demonstrably false. We've had vast improvements in the density of motor and battery technology in recent years. You can't possibly claim that those things haven't changed since 1885. You can already buy a very good EV with a 300 mile range. Which is more than most people need. They're just very expensive.

[@PhilWare1]

Energy densities in batteries have barely shifted in 20 years. Elon's solution is not better batteries, simply MORE batteries.

[@maxthemagition]

The fact is that by far the greatest CO2 production is from power stations that produce guess what…..electricity. More and more EVs equals more and more power stations. Cities also consume massive amounts of electricity whether it be for air con or heating so there again replacing gas and oil burners will increase the demand for electricity by a massive amount. Electricity accounts for about about 20% of global energy demand and the demand keeps growing. Replacing all gas and oil appliances obviously will require about ten times the present electrical production and it will all come from fossil fuelled generating stations. There is no answer to reducing fossil fuels useage. The ONLY solution to fossil fuels being burnt is Nuclear power. Please tell me that I am wrong. Whatever, I fear that we are too late to reverse the damage. 150 year of since oil, coal and gas became dominant in energy production has led us to climate change if true.

[@brucebaum1458]

C02 levels need to rise to save the planet at .037% of atmosphere the earth is at the lowest level in a million years if we don’t increase our level the planet will die like a weed shot with a vinegar squirt gun.

[@charleswidmore5458]

don't forgot the 30% loss of electricity over transmission lines, the lack of said lines and the lack of electric generating capacity. unless they actually do run on rainbows and unicorn farts, in which case, never mind

[@BudahOfBirmingham]

You are wrong about nuclear power

[@SteveLomas-k6k]

97% of all CO2 'emissions' every year, come from natural respiration, our tiny contribution isn't doing much of anything other than making the planet a little greener.

[@kevinsmith3343]

Happily you are wrong. there is a mountain to climb, starting with convincing the sceptics and with having a can do attitude. We put men on the moon didn't we. Some of your figures are alarming. National Grid estimates that if we all switched to EVs overnight we would need 10% more electricity than today (and we UK grid consumption peaked 2012). Already there are times when we have excess wind generation - EVs can charge selectively at such times. My old gas bill used to be several times my electric bill but heat pumps can be 300% efficient so they electric needed to replace gas or oil is a third as much. Then again gas boilers are not even 100% efficient - heat is lost from flues. Also part of the transition is to insulate all new homes much better and retrofit old homes so they need less energy. There are also novel solutions like IR heating -you give warmth to the occupants rather than trying to heat all the air and you only need to heat them whilst they are there. So with all these solutions and more we can do it. Try a visit to Everything Electric South at Farnborough this autumn to learn more and regain optimism. uk.everythingelectric.show/south

[@maxbants7737]

I wouldn't care so much if they also forced more construction of nuclear power plants to bring down the cost of electricity. There's literally no reason at all that in the 21st century, electricity shouldn't cost any more than 5p/KWH

[@RYTHMICRIOT]

Germany just shut down it's final three nuclear plants last year. And switched back to coal. But we're supposed to believe everything they do is for the environment.

[@rogerphelps9939]

Wrong. I suggestt you research the wholesale price of gas and the efficiency of combined cycle gas fired generating plant.

[@showme360]

Gas is the dominate generator and so the Tories want it to remain so that is what fixes the market price. Renewables are far cheaper than Nuclear, in fact Nuclear is the most expensive form of energy generation. i.e. Hinkley C is costing about £32,7 billion pounds it is estimate, nearly double what it was at the start, it is going to take 11 years to build, that a lot of money for 1,600Mega Watts. To use £32.7 billion pounds to build a wind farm would provide 10,464 of these wind turbines, which would correspond to a total capacity of 31,392 megawatts (MW) That would take 20 Hinkley power station to match that output. Plus wind turbines take no time to build, are easy to replace, repair, and no fall out if things go wrong. NOW which would you choose?

[@rogerphelps9939]

@@showme360 Correct. Just a point of detail, Hinkley C is supposed to be 3,000 MW but itt does not change your argument. The only thing that nuclear has going for it is that it is a steady mostly dependable source of energy. hat is why storage is critical for a green future.

[@showme360]

@@rogerphelps9939 Yep I was trying to conclude if it was 1.6 or 3 MW, I went for the lower! But thanks for poitning this out!

[@holdupmaster]

I think I could listen to Rory all day. Talks a lot of sense.

[@AaronMichaelLong]

If your product is genuinely good, going from early adopters to the wider public *IS* easy. Look at LCD screens or the VCR or the DVD or the smartphone. These products were gangbusters successes, and made the businesses selling them quite rich. If there were an electric car which was such an upgrade to the internal combustion car as to recommend itself to the general public, it, too, would see swift and universal adoption. The problem is, it *ISN'T*. Electric makes for good golf carts, but not for good automobiles. You can't really park an electric car on the street, you have to have a garage with an expensive charger. You can't drive it on long trips without increasing your drive time by a third, and that's IF you're fortunate enough to have conveniently-placed charging stations along your route. And the limited lifespan of the battery seriously ratchets up the total cost of ownership as the vehicle ages. Governments are bad at prescriptions, that is to say, "This is the fix for this problem", because it's invariably the case that furnishing incentives and letting people chose how to cope with those incentives results in a better outcome for everyone. And the incentive governments should be applying is quite simple: *TAX CARBON*. That's it, nothing else is needed. You want people to buy less of a thing, tax it. We've known this since Adam Smith. Then the government can use those revenues to fund carbon capture and sequestration schemes, again, not by saying "Use this tech", but by paying for the results and letting industry come up with the most cost-effective solutions. The reason they don't do this, however, is because democratic governments are in the business of selling candy, not medicine. They want an all-upside solution, with no drawbacks, no sacrifices, no trade-offs, just "Look! Free car!!!". PS: No, buying a Jaguar is not redistributing your wealth. Cars have a finite service life, and without massive reinvestment into repairs and replacement parts, they're destined to become scrap-metal. Homes require upkeep, too, but not nearly on the timescale under which a vehicle which is being used regularly will. Barring a disaster, a properly laid brick home will last indefinitely with minimal upkeep. That's not going to happen with your Jag.

[@ashleymoore9063]

EV cars are shocking in so many ways listed below .This guy 3:59 talking does not have a clue what he is talking about .

[@lesliekime7567]

Making everything electric is crazy.

[@mostevil1082]

The electric drive train is excellent, the batteries however are heavy, slow to charge and go on fire...

[@kipper2k]

Yah, lets use all the oil in the ground. We will be able to evolve to breathe carbon monoxide and be able to live in caves with gasoline generators. Hybrids do not solve the problem... You sir, are an idiot for thinking we can keep using gasoline

[@larx4074]

@@mostevil1082 Indeed, superb drivetrain, 19th century energy source.....................

[@alexmckenna1171]

You'd prefer to buy oil from our enemies then? Do you work for Iran, or Russia?

[@andybrice2711]

Sure. But making most vehicles in cities electric is probably very sensible. Because the air quality is quite terrible.

[@deansh8506]

Rory knows his stuff. Very well presented by him 👍

[@showme360]

No he admitted he knows nothing about the difference between Hybrids and BEV. So what the hell is he doing here spurt out rubbish.

[@pistonburner6448]

ICE cars are just as 'omnivorous' as electric. Not only do we have fossil gasoline, diesel, natural gas (CNG) and LPG, but we also have biomethane, NEXBTL biodiesel, bioethanol. Not to mention e-fuels which can be made with any energy source you want. This guy is totally incompetent. He is incorrect with every single point he tries to make.

[@costiqueR]

You are absolutely clueless about your talk. But no matter, it is coming. Faster or slower, nothing is remaining in ICE to develop, are at the end. Electricity can be made by anyone, you will not make any "BIO" on your roof. And so on... I bet you will live to see it, NOKIA boy...

[@markthomas7279]

Bit of a stretch really!!

[@stevezodiac491]

same as the thing he said about micro cars. Do you buy a micro car only for going to the shops because that is all it is able to do, or buy a full sized car that can do everything. Or buy an electric car with a rubbish range, or by a diesel that can do all ranges from 0 to around 650 miles ?

[@rogerphelps9939]

It has been shown that the energy return on energy invested for most biofuels is not much greater than 1. Furthermore internal combustion engines are only around 25% efficient and if you know anything about thermodynamics you will understand that that it is not going to improve very much. E fuels all require a carbon feedstock. Where is that coming from? It ought to be extracted from atmospheric carbon dioxide but that happens to be very difficult and energy intensive. Forget these biofuels and synthetic fuels. They are both very energy ineffieient and very expensive. I suggest you do some proper research before posting stuff that is clearly wrong.

[@costiqueR]

@@rogerphelps9939 Unfortunately the Internet has become the spreader of misinformation, almost all these commenters have no engineering degree and have no idea what is really possible to do. So they believe all stupid statements from people to movies...

[@bangtwister]

Another killer video from Rory. The man is a fountain of interesting information. Thanks for the upload!!👍

[@bbman_01]

The incentives don't make sense, why is it someone can put a £200k electric Porsche through their company so long it's brand new, get full VAT and corporation tax relief in the first year with minimal BIK which is really only useful for driving about 150 miles in a day (doubtful for business reasons)? Getting something more useful like a £30k diesel Skoda that actually makes business sense is taxed like crazy. Only alternative is buying a van. The tax structure only seems to benefit the automotive industry and sactimonious company directors, rather than actual businesses or normal people.

[@polla2256]

You don't need a new car. I got a second hand 2021 M3 LR dual motor for £25k, a van would have set me back £30k. It'll do 230 miles with ease and have a bit left. During the week I charge it maybe once from 20%. It's saving over £300 a month in diesel.

[@dawncole551]

Hybrid have big electrical problems - this is the experience of garage engineers and my own personal experience after driving my clients car!

[@larrydugan1441]

Most popular taxi is a prius. What don't they know?

[@davidbrayshaw3529]

What about the Toyota Prius? Those things never fail.

[@showme360]

Yep, waist of time to complecated and expensive to run.

[@rustychain9518]

I work at a CDJR dealership, 95% of the 4XE PHEVs that I work on have zero charge in them and have never been charged. People took the $7500 and ran with it, now that the “incentive” is gone no one buys them…as of now there’s absolutely no secondary market for BEVs, insurance companies, banks, and warranty companies rule that market and they have no intention of losing money on unknowable actuary tables.

[@kevinsmith3343]

You state 'as of now there’s absolutely no secondary market for BEVs' On the contrary, used EV sales are up 71% on a year ago. the only time I enquired about a used electric EV I saw on a forecourt it had already been sold. there are great bargains as lots of Evs are currently coming off corporate leases and the used market is not yet mature. Lots of folk arguing EVs are too dear - others saying their resale value is too low - you can't have both...

[@morganoox3838]

They will be scrapped by themselves. Just give it a bit more time people will realise they are just as disposable as phones but 100x more expensive.

[@marviwilson1853]

How much was the first mobile phone, the first desktop computer, the first flat screen TV, the first digital camera? Low spec, high price. Do you see the pattern?

[@morganoox3838]

@@marviwilson1853 except electric cars have been around a hundred years

[@mikadavies660]

Really interesting listening to Rory. The man makes entire sense all the way through.

[@andrewhotston983]

He really doesn't. How is a EV "better" than an IC Jaguar, unless all you need is a car to get you to Waitrose and back once a week?

[@hifijohn]

Its a novelty it will have its small loyal following,but it will never be mainstream.

[@SimUKReviews]

God, I've been saying this for years. Hybrid for the win.

[@h2489-m2l]

I don't think EVs will compete without incentives

[@andybrice2711]

I feel as though the first step should be to make all new vehicles mild hybrids. So at least they don't sit idling in traffic. Then hybrids. Then plug-in hybrids. Then when the technology is ready, we can talk about whether we really want to make all new vehicles EVs.

[@Aspartame69]

@@andybrice2711 If battery technology is fit for purpose, we can skip the plug in hybrids. Mild hybrids are fine, but leaving people the option of a car that works is the best case, until some magical state of explosive battery technology allows equal practicality with an ICE vehicle comes to market.

[@andybrice2711]

@@Aspartame69 I don't think the battery technology is quite fit for purpose yet though. It's too heavy, expensive, and flammable. Whereas we absolutely have the technology to make every new vehicle a mild hybrid now. And a plug-in hybrid in maybe 5-10 years.

[@Aspartame69]

​@@andybrice2711 The batteries in mild hybrids are still flammable. But the package in general is attractive. The motor takes up the high stain in start stop scenarios, and the motor delivers in the long range and both work together for performance. Plug in hybrids make no sense what so ever, the only time when we should move to a model based heavily on EV is when the batteries are ready to take over from ICE.

[@rfarrr2817]

This man loves the sound of his own voice.

[@etherspin]

Lots do. What do you think about his angle?

[@marcusnz232]

Almost every house in New Zealand these days is heated in exactly the way Rory suggests. Without a gas boiler though. It’s minus 3 outside as I type this on the South Island and my heat pumps are maintaining 21 degrees indoors.

[@davidbrayshaw3529]

Most of NZ's electricity is courtesy of renewables. I'm in Australia and it's a totally different ball game here. A good 80+% of your electricity comes from renewables. 90+% of ours comes from burning fossil fuels.

[@marcusnz232]

At the moment. However our generation capacity is inadequate for current needs and further electrification requires massive investment that 5 million people, half of whom pay no net income tax, can not possibly afford.

[@newbeginnings8566]

If the home is very well insulated and has a vent system to allow the house to breathe.. If not the house doesn't like heat pumps

[@betadevb]

@@davidbrayshaw3529 Big chunk of NZ renewables are Hydro followed by Geothermal. I am unsure we have that many suitable sites for these in Australia.

[@davidbrayshaw3529]

@@betadevb I'm of the understanding that there are few, if any, viable areas for damning on the mainland of Australia that haven't already been exploited. As for geothermal, I'm not sure if we have any.

[@danpatterson8009]

I worked in the disk-drive industry twenty years ago. The MAYA principle was in full effect in regulating the rate at which drive capacity increased. We could, at additional cost, market a drive with ten times' the capacity of the competition. But we sold the most drives when we were only incrementally better, so that the cost increase would be acceptable and there would be no perceptions of decreased reliability (not too "new").

[@richardhaynes5793]

What about the millions of people in car-packed streets in the cities, no off-street parking, struggling to make ends meet ???

[@hughesy606]

Get the bus/tube/tram/overground?

[@chrisrichards6763]

@@hughesy606 London bubble :D

[@andrewm5566]

The biggest problem with second hand EVs is that dealers wont trade them in because they have to give a warranty when they sell them and EVs are just too expensive to repair, and if you buy a second hand EV privately who do you get to inspect prior to purchase???

[@tonyhodgkinson4586]

One thing this chap never mentioned is where is all the electricity going to come from?

[@andybrice2711]

That’s not a major problem. We already have a lot of spare generation capacity for most of the day. Just not at peak times.

[@davidhedgecock5857]

@@andybrice2711 so everybody will be forced to charge at off peak times, how convenient they will love that! And off peak times will end making it even more expensive all the time! We need nuclear power stations.

[@andybrice2711]

@@davidhedgecock5857 You’re right we need nuclear power. But you seem to have fundamentally misunderstood how smart car charging works. You leave your car plugged in while it’s parked. And you set a priority for how much you need it charged. If it’s low priority, the car will only charge during off peak times when electricity is cheap. If it’s high priority, you’re willing to pay a bit more to charge at peak times. This is much the same as how petrol stations in busier areas are more expensive. So you only stop at them if you really need to. Supply and demand.

[@charleswidmore5458]

he forgot the 30% loss of electricity over transmission lines, the lack of said lines and the lack of electric generating capacity. unless they actually do run on rainbows and unicorn farts, in which case, never mind

[@thesmallnotesduo]

Pixie dust. [No carbon footprint my friend]

[@bradsmith9189]

Hybrids are over the top complicated and therefore exceedingly difficult and expensive to repair and maintain. There are very, very, few techs even trained to deal with them. Does this guy even have a clue ?

[@David-bl1bt]

He is clueless...states that heatpumps cost £40,000🤣😂🤣 Mine is being instalked by Octopus energy next month...all fitted and working for an eyewatering.......£505 Replacement gas boiler installer £3200....ouch!

[@669karlos]

@@David-bl1bthave you changed your radiators?

[@David-bl1bt]

​@669karlos the quote from Octopus quote includes any radiator upgrades necessary...only one is being changed, in my bedroom as it is north facing and is a cold room, it is undersized as it is. I have just had my install date confirmed as 18th Dec.

[@669karlos]

@ brilliant, my dad does commercial and just finished a large hospital, they couldn’t believe the saving results as you can imagine on a building that size, there was so much scepticism and implied failure but it has been a huge success, albeit be prepared to need more radiators upsizing the job he is on now they needed all radiators to be 3 times the output to achieve the temp/efficiency rating.

[@apislapis]

Well done Rory, that's probably the most sensible overview I've seen of EVs on YT. I used to be an early adopter of tech but like Rory explains you eventually learn that you pay a premium when it would be more prudent just to wait. For example, I remember being a fanboy of portable MiniDisc and shelling out for an early model, and where are they now? EVs may be the future but not this version (like they weren't with the Sinclair C5) too short a range, too few charge points north of Birmigham (like HS2 they've not travelled well), too expensive, too fast depreciation, too much of a faff to pay cashless, too much government arm twisting, too many ifs to completing a journey, too long spent waiting in my own time for it to charge, too quiet (according to the BMJ twice as many accidents with EVs with pedestrians than ICE vehicles), too soulless. Should your EV catch fire (not as likely as some on YT suggest but if it does) too likely that your car will burn with such intensity for days that the fire brigade won't put it out, so just make sure it's not parked next to your house. Till they sort it out with the next generation, I bought myself a near mint 2nd hand diesel. It takes five mins to fill it up, I have 500 miles range roughly and I won't fill it up again for days or weeks. Simples.

[@ttystikkrocks1042]

This gentleman gets it; he fully understand the attraction, the utility and the limits of EVs, and coupler with a clear understanding of who buys new cars, he's able to paint a very realistic picture of the present and near future of EV adoption. Plus, I'm an HVAC tech and my comments about cars can be applied directly to his overview of heat pumps. Climate change is real, hotter days are coming and if the UK utilities are afraid of spiking electricity use due to heat pump use for cooling, subsidize more solar!

[@andrewhotston983]

Utter nonsense.

[@ttystikkrocks1042]

@@andrewhotston983 taking pot shots is easy; how is adding solar "nonsense?"

[@andrewhotston983]

@@ttystikkrocks1042 Because adding more and more intermittent and unpredictable sources to a power grid makes it unstable and more expensive.

[@ttystikkrocks1042]

@@andrewhotston983 Ever heard of these things called "batteries," mate?

[@andrewhotston983]

@@ttystikkrocks1042 Yeah - there's one in my phone. Storing surplus solar-generated electricity on an industrial scale is impossible, so my point stands.

[@peterazlac1739]

What you run out of in the EV market is the raw materials required to manufacture them, to produce the renewable energy and to transmit it nationally. You simply cannot mine the amounts of copper, nickel, lithium, cobalt etc. needed to meet the political targets for the adoption of EVs never mind electrification of the whole economy and anyone who thinks you can needs and education in mathematics and mining technology. The result is power prices that make EVs unaffordable for the ordinary citizen as one suspects in the intention of governments with their plans for 15 minute cities with the mandates to allow outlawing of ICE vehicles.

[@marviwilson1853]

You are making the classic mistake of predicting tomorrows problems by only using todays technology! Future EV batteries will be made of cheap, common, environmentally friendly materials. As for price, the first digital cameras, flat screen TV's and computers costs thousands yet now we all have one. You need to learn form history and see that like all new technologies, EV development is a process and more importantly we are just in a "moment in time" in that process.

[@showme360]

That what they were saying when they were still using horses back in the 1900 LOL.

[@peterazlac1739]

@@marviwilson1853 The limitation is the supply of electricity so it is not the manufacture of the cars that counts but the amounts of copper and rare earths and trillions of dollars required to build out the grid to supply that power, the sub stations to supply it and the wind turbine generators to produce it. You can make as many EVs and batteries using advanced materials that you like but without the power to charge them they are so much junk.

[@marviwilson1853]

@@peterazlac1739 You forget that during the night, at present, we have all that generating capacity online that can produce vast amounts of power that nobody wants. People are all in bed with their cookers, kettles, TV's coffee machine's etc switched off. There is a reason why night time electricity is so much cheaper. EV's can tap into that "problem area" and charge at night to make use of the generating capacity that remains online when all go to bed. That aside, in the future, the EV gives the "holy trinity" of electricity - generation, transmission and then with millions of EV's connected to the grid, Storage. A car in Manchester may charge with electricity stored in an EV in Luton. We will use App's to control power in and power out. We may even be able to sell our stored power for more than we paid for it to charge up. It's a totally new world coming.

[@michael.randall5034]

Hi you are spot on. Electricity is too expensive due to lack of it so how can we have EV's for all. Safer batteries required too.

[@highlandmalt6368]

The internal combustion engine in a marvel of human engineering - that something so complex can be produced at a price point and is as reliable as it is, is extraordinary.

[@stephendoherty9855]

that is what happens with 100 years of development. why not ask someone who is an expert on evs rather than rory sutherland who is a generalist. this is all a non problem which will be forgotten in 3 or 4 years once everyone settles down. 2nd hand evs are now cheap. lets celebrate

[@nickwilliams5579]

So was the horse

[@JohnnyMotel99]

@@stephendoherty9855 give EV's a hundred years and it will be streets ahead too.

[@edwyncorteen1527]

Rory is pretty much spot on with all his comments, Used EVs are now a bargain, anyone who has off street parking is mad if they don't buy one, new EVs will be much cheaper in the next year or two as battery prices are going down rapidly. CATL the largest battery manufacturer, is predicting their prices will have gone down 50% this year, this will make an EV cheaper to buy new compared to an ICE car, it is simply game over when that happens.

[@MrsTabby1963]

Isn't that because they're manufactured in China? Hmm, I wouldn't trust build quality or safety.

[@graemetonks7825]

Thanks Spectator for the great EV advert.😮

[@brucekennedy5274]

Rory summarises it perfectly. While EVs are the future imo, it’s currently impractical for so many, poor infrastructure, high prices and a fairly immature second hand market. People will find their way to them in their own good time, not have it foisted upon them by unrealistic ultimatums.

[@thewrightoknow]

Have you not heard, that Volkswagen & Mercedes has abandoned all electric cars. Hybrids led, but not all electric! In the USA, Hybrid is what is happening, not all electric.

[@marviwilson1853]

Sounds a bit like Nokia late to the "smartphone revolution" party or Kodak thinking that film was always going to be the future as those new fangled digital camera things will never take off. Be careful VW !!!

[@thewrightoknow]

@@marviwilson1853 Just reporting the facts, let companies decide if what they make are sellable and financially achievable for their shareholders who own the company! NOT Governments! They make laws not reality!

[@marviwilson1853]

@@thewrightoknow Well remember governments are elected by the people. What they do is what people want them to do after casting their electoral votes. Therefore companies will do what the electorate decide they will do.

[@rogerphelps9939]

They have not abandoned E Vs. Maybe you live in America which would explain a lot.

[@thewrightoknow]

@@rogerphelps9939 I stand corrected, you are correct. They have pushed back the deadline and I believe that this deadline will be pushed back. With China introducing EV's to the Eurpopean Car market, I wonder if this will change their vision. The USA is intending to add a 100% tariff on EV's from China, which I think is wise. Considering the companies in China are state owned and do not have to live with economic reality of profit!

[@craigyirush3492]

To the guest’s points - you can’t easily run ships or planes well with electric motors, nor is it the case that ICE can only run on crude oil. There are now viable e-fuels which can be run with no modification at all, and which are also running in top race series.

[@davidbrayshaw3529]

"e-fuels" are anything but efficient to produce, nor are they "clean" to produce. They're a smoke and mirrors show brought to you kindly by Porsche. It's a marketing gimmick and nothing else.

[@rogerphelps9939]

No. E-fuels are not viable.

[@craigyirush3492]

@@davidbrayshaw3529 I was just at the Indy 500 and all the cars were running Shell renewable fuel. No way that’s dirtier than digging up the earth for lithium.

[@craigyirush3492]

@@rogerphelps9939 what a stupid comment

[@davidbrayshaw3529]

I don't know, but e fuels are not what they purport to be. You either need coal to produce them or it requires extraordinarily inefficient electrolysis to produce hydrogen. It's a ruse.

[@NPC-st7zv]

Miniaturisation? WTF is he on about, these electric cars weigh 2.5 metric tons

[@ObiePaddles]

My Model Y weighs 1900kg. Model 3 within 30kgs of BMW 3 series duty weight, so will weigh less on the road.

[@etherspin]

That's all battery weight If there are loads of city cars with low total capacity but rapid charging I think they'll be light

[@clovermark39]

Yes that had me too. 🤣🤣

[@charleswillcock3235]

My 2006 diesel Merc weighs 2.5 tonnes roughly - no-one kicked off about the weight of those cars. If you look at a 1950s bus and compare that to a 2024 bus the latest diesel buses are much heavier than the much older ones.

[@AndrewTSq]

The man in the interview was so clueless on many things . He also thought you should take the airplane on longer distances 😂

[@RD-qp3mu]

Excellent i terview with good analogies.

[@VisorView]

If everyone in the UK drove an EV it would not affect global CO2 one jot. We are a tiny island, and sparsely inhabited. There is absolutely no prospect of the UK 'saving the planet'. I got some figures about Earth, land mass, CO2 levels etc and fed them into Excel. Compared to the rest of the planet we don't even register as insignificant. All debate on how EV's are good for the planet is completely irrelevant to the UK. What the government has done is export our polluting industries to China, this enables them to claim that we are able to achieve Net Zero, whilst finger pointing at China. It is madness. Net Zero is not the same as zero pollution. Companies carry on producing pollution, but plant trees to offset their pollution. Those trees will take 20 years to start absorb CO2. In short it does not make any difference how good EV's are, there is nothing we can do in this country, the whole debate is quite pointless. The fringe elements of EV's, the millions of tons of copper cabling, plastic insulation, charging stations, and the drain on the National Grid, as well as the Lithium issues, are huge negatives.

[@mconnah1]

So what is the alternative? Please don’t say hydrogen or synthetic fuels or I’ll direct you to a dozen reports about how how inefficient a solution that is. In terms of early adopters, I remember the outcry about banning incandescent lights bulbs. It is now so obvious that LED’s are a better solution, people have forgotten the ridiculous outcry that required legislation…

[@SierraSierraFoxtrot]

Great example.

[@mostevil1082]

The reason second hand electric car prices are very cheap is because the batteries are only really good for 5 years and thats most of the cost of the vehicle.... It doesn't solve the problem at all for those of us who don't by £60k+ cars.

[@alexmckenna1171]

Wrong. 5 years? More like 2o.. And then you use it for something else.. EVs are safer, cleaner, cheaper, more reliable, faster, keep their value and are more fun. And they don't give your family cancer.. And you don’t have to buy petrol, giving money to our enemies, like Iran, Russia, etc.

[@ObiePaddles]

I’ve got an electric car and really hope the batteries fail in 5 years. For some reason the manufacturers foolishly give 7 or 8 year warranties.

[@ObiePaddles]

In the article he spoke about the fact that one of the best things about ne electric cars is that they create a 2nd hand market 3 years later at ½ the cost of new. This is normal.

[@rafaeldegiacomoaraujo8778]

Lol... what a joker

[@Hickalum]

@@ObiePaddlesHigh depreciation is a BAD thing if you own an EV.

[@robertmaslin3844]

Remember the Luton airport carpark fire? They tried to blame it on a diesel car. Diesel does not explode easily unless its in an engine.

[@ObiePaddles]

It was a diesel according to the official report. You can watch the video, see the number plate and test it for yourself.

[@robertmaslin3844]

@ObiePaddles if you read the report, it was an electric cars battery that started the fire.

[@marviwilson1853]

The data shows that ICE engined cars are far more likely to burst into flames than current EV's and remember that the solid state battery will eliminate the fire risk completely in future. Like all new technologies, EV development is an ongoing process of improvement.

[@rogerphelps9939]

It was not an EV.

[@tomkimber9072]

@@robertmaslin3844 www.bedsfire.gov.uk/news/fire-airport-car-park-started-accidentally

[@thumper1747]

Absolutely love Rory, his fundamental stance on all topics always hits the spot for me. I’ve made buying quality cars three of four years old and policy and avoided huge depreciation thanks to those wealthier than I, so I agree wholeheartedly with Rory. Love the line ‘Electricity in one end and rotating wheels the other’ just about sums up simplicity of EVs. I own a BMW i3S and plug it into a three pin socket in the garage overnight twice a week, no fancy charger, 5p a mile and I can drive 75 miles away from home and return with charging, not that’s it’s much of an inconvenience to be honest.

[@mooncoinphoto]

What is he talking about? Miniaturization only works for electric cars? He seems to be spouting noise rather than facts.

[@stevekirkham4849]

The current crop of EVs don’t show any evidence of miniaturisation, quite the contrary.

[@rogerphelps9939]

Kia EV3?

[@walterplant2957]

Having been in a car accident that killed my mother in law and left my other half permanently disabled I wouldn’t be happy in a micro car ; you might be going three miles to the station but the HGV that hits you doesn’t know that . Simply not safe

[@kevinsmith3343]

The same is true of being a pedestrian or cyclist.

[@walterplant2957]

@@kevinsmith3343 I’ve also been knocked off my bike by cars which is why I no longer cycle . Can’t do anything if a car mounts the pavement and runs me over but believe me I’m mindful as a pedestrian of the danger of being run over !

[@kevinsmith3343]

@@walterplant2957 I'm not surprised - I've been put off my bike twice by cars. I don't think either event would have happened had I been in a microcar such as the microlino though. It does make me wary of cycling the useful routes here mainly because of quarry and forest traffic.

[@johnswift3124]

My 65 grand car is better than my old 75 grand car - Why on earth would anyone take advice from this guy? Absolutely out of touch.

[@nickwilliams5579]

Because he is about 400 times more intelligent than you.

[@johnswift3124]

@@nickwilliams5579 I know you are but what am I?

[@kjlovescoffee]

14:48 No one is asking you to rip out your working gas boiler. The incentives are there to ensure that, for people who need to replace a failing boiler, the upfront cost isn't an impediment - particularly as they are cheaper to run. And the UK doesn't get cold enough for modern heat pumps to struggle at all.

[@fredfred2363]

The compact fluorescent lamp analogy was perfect. What an excellent way of looking at it. Everyone should listen to this discussion. Financiers, decision makers, environmentalists, engineers, petrolheads and EVangelists. So many good points. The only thing factually incorrect is converting electric to rotational energy. It is actually quite a complex process (but using electronics, not mechanical engineering).

[@David-d4k9k]

Your argument is Euro centric. EVs in huge continents like Australia are impractical unless you reserve driving to cities .

[@foppo101]

Who cares about Australia racist penal colony.

[@charleswidmore5458]

even the teeny tiny commie countries of the eu seem to be lukewarm at best

[@tomkimber9072]

I got an EV because I live in rural Australia and drive 50k km per year. It's just a bit cheaper to run than my old land cruiser was.

[@kevinashurst634]

Nonsense. Austrailian EV drivers go all over the place.

[@kevinsmith3343]

A Tesla taxi driver in Australia has passed 700,000 miles in his taxi. He changed the battery at 666000 because the car suggested it wasn't optimal any more and it was still under new for old warranty! He has charged whenever he needed to on the fastest charger he could find, no great efforts to preserve the battery. Australia is adopting EVs very fast - not least as they have lots of solar panels on their homes and only 10% of them live in apartments.

[@t28mcd]

Why is he saying EVs are a new technology? They were invented before ICE cars over 100 years ago but abandoned due to being rubbish.

[@nickwilliams5579]

Yep, wicked. My Taycan does nearly 300 miles on £10 worth of electricity, oh and has 550bhp.....This is the opposite of rubbish, last time I checked. I doubt you ever have though.

[@David-d4k9k]

EVs may be the way to go in a tiny country like GB, but in Australia they are totally useless outside cities. A good argument, but it is Euro centric.

[@philipc2025]

I agree. In response to a comment I made about EVs on another channel, I was informed that charging points in the Australian outback are powered by diesel generators. 😂

[@achangyw]

EVs are excellent for a small town like the one I live in.

[@vinterskugge907]

@@philipc2025 But why would that be a laughing matter? If you have a diesel car, you are running on diesel 100% of the time. If you drive an EV and occasionally use a charger powered by a diesel generator, you are running on diesel a very small percentage of the time.

[@marviwilson1853]

EV's are coming that will do 1000 miles on a single charge. Why would there be a problem in Australia outside a city. An EV requires a recharging station at some point just as an ICE car needs a fuel garage.

[@davidbrayshaw3529]

@@vinterskugge907 The energy mix on the Eastern seaboard of Australia is 92% fossil fuels. Coal, oil and gas. A Tesla model 3 hear burns as much in the way of fossil fuels as a Mazda 3 and then some. A diesel Golf creates less emission than either of them. EV's are a joke in Australia. We need to fix our grid.

[@jamesaughney8470]

63% of new cars in UK are bought for fleet use. All ages of users - not 58 year olds. Some employers like Amazon here in Ireland allow free charging of your Leaf or ID4 while at work. I notice many taxis in cities like Valencia are now Texlas - easier to drive through traffic etc.

[@beautgrainger147]

The heatpump thing is extremely valid and rational. This house is somewhat old and there's insufficient gap to have effective cavity wall insulation added all over. We sorted a load of damp, concreted under the floors, etc, got solar panels and switched to water-based underfloor heating downstairs, it was pleasant and not too expensive to run.. then the next year or so later switched to an air source heat pump.. I'm admittedly a bit too lean but nonetheless am currently sat in the kitchen with 2 jumpers and a fleece, in October.. we've actually ordered some electric radiators which give off radiant heat and I'd happily return to that solar with boiler setup.

[@kipper2k]

seems to be a lot of people wearing blinders leaving comments

[@rickrimington2760]

The value of a second hand EV is very much linked to the time remaining on the 8 year warranty on the Battery . This is because the cost to change a battery is higher than the value of the second hand EV . Therefore EV's are becoming disposable cars , very much like a laptop computer , where once your battery goes , it is always cheaper and better to buy a new high tech laptop . This is why the value of EV's are depreciating so fast now , the market has worked out that they are only as good as their battery life . New EV's like Tesla are being discounted by $10,000 a car from the year before price tag . There is no point going out there and buying a new Porsche Taycan for $416,000 only to find out a year latter it is worth about $200,000 . The same is happening to Mercedes EV's. The point is there will be very little market for for high end EV's soon. They are only as good as the life of their battery . So in reality it is not a car you are buying , it is a battery life. So this is only going to work for the low end of the Ev market , but not the upper end like Porsche and Mercedes . Ev's probably only make sense if they are no more than $30,000 Australian new . That is if you have a battery warranty of 8 years ,. You just drive them until the battery expires . May be at best a life of 10 to 12 years . Then you throw your EV away .

[@malcolmwebb5201]

Where is the electricity going to come from? The National Electric Grid will have to be quadrupled in size to electrify the road fleet. That is going to be staggeringly expensive to achieve - furthermore there is no way are renewables going to be able to provide that level of steady supply. But in any event there is not a snowballs chance in Hell of this all being done in ten or even 20 years. Really a ludicrous pipe dream - and a hugely costly one too!

[@charleswidmore5458]

in order to take America to a 89% ev fleet there would need to be built 1 new 1.1gigawatt power plant every 2 weeks for the next 20 years. I may be pessimist but I do not see that happening. kek

[@marviwilson1853]

EV's charge at night when the nation is tucked up in bed and all those cookers, TV's microwaves, lights, kettles are all switched off and the National Grid has all that generating capacity online to produce electricity that nobody wants. Oh wait a minute - electric cars!! There is a reason why night time electricity is so cheap. Added to that, future EV batteries will do 1000 miles on a single charge and the mass uptake of EV's across the nation completes the Holy Trinity of "electricity" - Generation, Transmission and now with EV's "Storage. It's a new world coming.

[@michael.randall5034]

You are correct, We will need a lot more proper power stations preferably Nuclear other wise net zero will be unattainable.Electricity has to be affordable

[@sizif717]

Well, and on top of all that - the majority of the companies loose tens and hundreds of thousand dollars - on every EV sale..Because they are forced to invest in them and produce them. And now it turns out - that people don't want to buy them (apart from China), they want hybrids and ICEs. That is absurd form an economical standpoint. The car manufacturers are loosing money, the taxpayers are loosing money out of their pockets (government budgets) - to subsidize every EV sale. That is crazy!

[@rumpoh8039]

YES. NEXT QUESTION.

[@militarymodellerpaul5932]

Battery cars are not suitable with there limited range

[@jamesvandamme7786]

How far do you drive without stopping to, you know...? your car could charge 100 miles' worth in that time.

[@martinostlund1879]

It is the same with fuel cars, the range is too short, I won’t buy any until they go 3000 miles on one fill.

[@marviwilson1853]

Those new digital cameras only have 2 Mega Pixel CCD's and are really expensive. Flat screen TV's will never replace cathode ray tubes. Have you seen their price and their picture quality is not that good and don't get be started with those new desktop computer things. That Commodore PET computer costs £5000 and only has 128K of RAM. Sounds like you!!

[@showme360]

@@martinostlund1879 Wow that some bladder you've got there, and I feel sorry for your passangers. lol

[@kevinsmith3343]

My bladder range is about 180 miles tops after that I need a stretch and a cuppa and my MG4EV short range can charge whilst I do that to give me another 150 miles. There are EVs out there for those who drive 300 miles without a stop, too. Not sure that is wise. And there are 20 million places to charge EVs in the country.

[@newbeginnings8566]

Good points but the main thing he misses is the stored energy in a litre of petrol/diesel and how batteries just can't store the same amount of energy for an equal weight..

[@SierraSierraFoxtrot]

Why should it matter? You carry the batteries upstairs every day? Also energy density is constantly improving.

[@Agwings1960]

The fact that Hertz is dumping their EV's doesn't bode well for the EV market

[@charleswidmore5458]

don't be anti propagandist! Everyone knows hertz is only dropping the far superior ev because overall it is too reliable, easy to work on, and just saves to much dang money!

[@Smith_Tech_70]

I'm a car lover, and a tech-enthusiast. I had to wait until I was 52 to buy a new car, and an EV, and even then, the choice of decent EVs with a 300+ mile range were few and far between. Once I saw the BMW I4, I was hooked, being a long term BMW fan.

[@jasonthompson7230]

Quote by Markham Hislop "This is the fundamental mistake Alberta oil leaders make about this energy transition: it's technology-led, NOT commodity-led. The clean energy technology future is NOT an extrapolation of the oil/gas led past."

[@Checklight66]

There are many problems with electric vehicles, the guest interveiwed gave many example of where electric motors are great, in tiny things with small loads, once the load is increased to the size of over a metric tonne, the efficency drops of rapidly compared to an ICE motor. Same at highway speeds where ICE engines are far more efficeint than electric motors. And where are all the resources, copper Lithium etc going to come from, a second Earth? A paper just released states that we will need to open 6 new major copper mines annually just to keep up with current demand, not including the roll out of EV's that is planned. It is untrue that the carbon debt from an electric car is quickly paid back. The Polestar 4 EV produces 20 metric tonnes of CO2 in it's manufacture. In comparison, my 1995 Toyota Camry wagon produced 1.08 metric tonnes of CO2 to build. It has produced 41.5 Tonnes of CO2 in 27 year of operation, including building it . In 27 years, 3.4 Polestar 4 vehicles will be needed on average to replace one 1995 Toyota Camry. That is 68tonnes of CO2. This does not include the emmissions from the power plants. As the operational lifetime of most EV's is predicted to be about 8years, after which they will become landfill. The high proportion of plastics in EV's will never be recycled and will end up as land fill or burnt as these are the only relistic options for plastic. The batteries are not currently recycled in any but token values due to the highly toxic nature of the Lithium used in these batteries. The batteries are currently going to landfill and can leach poisons into the ground water. Not to mention the weight, increased tire wear and polution assciated with that, fire hazzard, danger to other road users in an accident. Lithium battery fires burn at 2200C and are very hard to put out. The electrical infrastructure to support even a 40% replacement of the current ICE fleet would mean every suburb will have the same feeling as being inside an electrical substation. The only thing that will affect the climate in a positive way is to reduce consuption, change the economic system to one that rewards sustainablity over the very long term.

[@showme360]

Actuall Polestar are moving to ZERO emmisions in teh construction of thier cars. 8 years well both my Nissan Leafs sitting my drive have exceeded that timeline. lol You spouting rubbish sorry!!

[@janieromer2907]

The batteries require replacing often at great expense which prohibits the affordability of buying second hand.

[@davefitzpatrick4841]

B/s I have a 8 year old EV that's battery condition is 90% state of health, batteries last 15-20 years, most warranties are 8 years or 100k on batteries. The average warranty on cars is 5 years or 60k miles ( I wonder why) . Plenty of EVs now well over 200k miles , average fossil fuel car in UK is scrapped at 107k miles 👍

[@Brommear]

@@davefitzpatrick4841 And then, after 60K, replacing the batteries will cost more than the car is worth. Pass.

[@alexmckenna1171]

NO they don't. Teslas have been going for 200,000 miles so far...

[@ObiePaddles]

@@alexmckenna1171average degradation for 200,000 mile Tesla is 12% by their numbers.

[@rafaeldegiacomoaraujo8778]

What a joker

[@militarymodellerpaul5932]

And battery’s are land fill.

[@14caz68]

Highly toxic and unstable too.

[@ObiePaddles]

They are so valuable they are being recycled at 95%+ recovery rate.

[@etherspin]

Really? Don't they lose around 1 percent charge capacity per year and then when spent, get 90 percent recycled into a new battery?

[@jamesvandamme7786]

When you believe oil industry FUD you spout all kinds of silly claptrap.

[@ObiePaddles]

@@etherspin You are way off. It’s 95% + and VW have stated aim of 99% recycled. Shell have announced that their years of research has led to a 0% recycling rate except when filtered through lungs.

[@maxflight777]

Government should stay the heck away from these things though. The merits of EV’s are good enough for people to make their own choice.

[@marviwilson1853]

Kyoto agreements.

[@wag0NE]

What still confuses me is why we are replacing a non renewable liquid resource oil, with a non renewable mineral resource lithium. It's total idiocy to call it the only solution, so for now can't we just have a free market?