Is Jeep Killing the Wrangler for the New Recon?

( www.alltfl.com/ ) Check out our new spot to find ALL our content, from news to videos and our podcasts! There's been quite a bit of buzz going around about the state of electrification throughout the car industry and how it will affect icons like the Jeep Wrangler. With the debut of the new Jeep Recon as an electrified model, there's plenty of concern that this new SUV will end up replacing the model people know and have loved over generations. Tommy and Kase dive into the conversation in this video!
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#Jeep #car #SUV

[@tedecker3792]

Jeep will die if there is no Wrangler.

[@gregc9220]

Only 1% only buy them to off-road them anyway, why not not make it a FIS front suspension at this point, this is 2024 the wrangler is dead and they know it

[@nofameculture]

💯

[@bigmacmach1185]

Jeep would be dumb enough at this point to do this thanks to stellantis brilliant business acumen.

[@mrgurulittle7000]

@@bigmacmach1185Yep. Stellantis has somehow managed to completely mismanage the US brands.

[@shitloveaduck]

@@mrgurulittle7000- they tried to introduce a bit of European style of management to revive the brand, but,,,,.

[@jhb3711]

We paid $54k for our brand new 2021 rubicon unlimited with options. That same spec in 2024 is almost $70k. Absolutely NOT worth the price increase.

[@teotwawki00]

$54 is worth it. $70 is not. Hold onto it forever. It's still worth $45-50k. Lol.

[@dickeyseamus]

Okay, that's quite shocking!

[@Wrangzilla]

MSRP on my 2020 JLUR was about 53k and similar build is 65k. This is my 6th Wrangler since 1996 and more than likely will be my last. (You hear that Jeep). I've been building my Rubicon to be pretty much bulletproof; skid plates, body mounted rock sliders, winch, lights, Rusty's off road front end, RVC axles front and rear, Reid racing knuckles, dynatrac ball joints, ARB dual air system, AEV reservoir shocks (plan to put a double throwdown suspension on her next), rhinorack backbone rack, and many more mods. I take very good care of her and when that engine goes, she's making a trip to America's Most Wanted 4x4 for a 426 swap.

[@ScottGiorgini]

I'd pay $54k for a Rubicon Unlimited in a heartbeat. I will NOT, however, pay that much for a modestly equipped Sport S. 🙄

[@sas2106]

I paid 72k for 2023 rubicon 4xe, had constant issues and traded in for a Bronco raptor. For a 70K + car the customer service is not premium as BMW and Audi.

[@gregamos8793]

Without Wrangler, there is no Jeep!

[@coblaze1]

sales are plummeting on the wrangler

[@barrydworak]

This. People buy Jeep SUVs because of the enduring image and reputation of the CJ and Wrangler. Nobody buys a Wrangler because of the Renegade or the Grand Wagoneer. Without the Wrangler, Jeep is roughly equivalent to Kia SUVs if they spun them off into a different brand.

[@coblaze1]

@@barrydworak this is wildly out of touch. the numbers show that people are buying the top end models way more than the wrangler. wrangler has a very narrow market fit.

[@barrydworak]

@@coblaze1 can you read?

[@Bluebottlenose]

@@coblaze1yes, because of the cost

[@summersbo58]

Wranglers are not selling because they are to expensive. The old formula was simple, affordable and relatively reliable. Not one of those traits can be attributed to modern Wranglers. Owning 6 Jeeps in my life, 4 of those being Wranglers….I appreciate only the ones made before 2006. Jeep needs to go back to the TJ series and bring back the simplicity and reliability of that generation. Just add enough modern features to make it legal in 24 and beyond. Skip the EV and make it light with a modern 4cyl.

[@YuenanCao]

100%

[@JoeDawson.]

New base model 2 door with automatic transmission and a hard top. Over $38,000…

[@anthonycampbell6648]

@summersbo58 yes I feel like if jeep just make overall there vehicles more affordable and then have a lower end model again they will do much better

[@Inferno45]

Wrong. It is the price thats the problem. The wrangler used to be the cheap off-roader and now it costs as much as a chevy suburban while having less space and a harsher ride. The wrangler is a small vehicle that should be priced in the early $30k range and max at $50-55k. Wranglers costs $85k with dealer markups and they arent even up to par with every other suv in that price range.

[@geneharvey]

Facts

[@nielsmeer]

The biggest reason Jeep is dropping in sales is the price. A Rubicon 2 door starts at nearly $50K! Jeeps used to be cheaper cars. I bought a top of the line Jeep Sahara with the “big tire & wheel package” in 1997 and it was $23K. A base Sport 2 door today starts at $32K.

[@Carfan678]

The Grand Wagoner is dumb expensive too and looks like a fridge its like BMW X7 and Mercedes GLS $$$ so why would I buy a jeep

[@slandon1977]

$23k in 1997 is $45k today. source: US Bureau of Labor Statistics CPI calculator I agree with your point, but judging dollars from 1997 to today isn’t exactly apples to apples.

[@nielsmeer]

@@slandon1977 Sure if you compare absolute dollars. But look at 1997 dollars vs today. The $23K I spent then gave me a dual top with all the options. Figure that is $45K today. A top trim line 2 door wrangler today like the 392 is $100K before options. A Rubicon X would be the closest to what I had & that is ~$60K but without the dual top. If it was $45K, I don’t think sales would be dropping so much.

[@inevahdie]

@@nielsmeerbut wouldn’t you have to throw in mod $$$ to make it similarly capable as rubicon?

[@BillLaBrie]

Prices have doubled since 1997. On everything. Of course in 1997, $35k was a nice liveable junior salary in most cities.

[@bk27117]

These European executives at Stellantis are completely weak and clearly don't know the American market. It's so sad to see how they ruin everything they touch.

[@texandy89]

I agree with that. I've said that when a foreign company buys an American company, they destroy the American company.

[@donkeymarco]

As well as they don't the european market. Tavares and its managers in France are making one bad decision after anorher. They choose, for example, to use one of worst engines, on the market, the Puretech, just because has a lower manufacturing cost

[@dickeyseamus]

Unfortunately, the Americans didn't either. This company should of gone out of business a few times over now.

[@tb4326]

A master class only matched by Bob Igor of Disney on how too ruin a company through complete incompetence.

[@nm-qt2hb]

​@@tb4326 What vehicles does Disney build? There parks seem to be doing well.

[@Offshore1977]

Wrangler sales are down due to prices. They have become ridiculously overpriced. I’m a Wrangler fan and have had CJ, YK, JK but they have become out of my price range now. Please don’t kill the Wrangler or even change it, but just make it affordable. Keep it a simple off-roader.

[@smarticus6384]

Nobody wants to pay for a $80k Jeep anything.

[@barrydworak]

Nobody really wants to pay $80k for a Porsche, either. But Porsche isn't a mass market company. They make tens of thousands of cars where Jeep makes hundreds of thousands. Porsche can get by on a small, affluent customer base that can't keep Jeep alive.

[@felipin.el.detailer]

@@barrydworak you are comparing Jeep and Porsche? For real?

[@barrydworak]

@felipin.el.detailer did you actually read what I wrote or just the first few words? 🤣 No. I'm mocking Stellantis for positioning the Wrangler to compete with Porsches. That's patently stupid of them. People who buy $80-100k toys have a lot of choices out there. The Wrangler has long been fun, cool, and affordable. Fun, cool, and UNaffordable puts them in direct competition with the wrong cars, including Porsches.

[@americanrambler4972]

@@barrydworak those hundreds of thousands of jeeps sold per year? Those numbers are dropping rapidly. Like by close to half since 2018.

[@jlv3x]

$80k+ vehicles of that are not luxury brands are not going to sale in heavy volumes. A Wrangler is not a G-Wagon and Mercedes doesn't sale 50,000 of those yearly.

[@robb8773]

Wrangler sales are down because it has gotten too damn expensive!

[@bowtieMD]

The price of all vehicles has gone up to the point of craziness

[@h20bobo]

Its the pricing. Wranglers are too expensive (as are most vehicles now).

[@smarticus6384]

How about building a plain Jane Rubicon? No center screen, no digital anything, just buttons and knobs, no turbos, no ev tech whatsoever, no carpet or fancy trim, and price it affordably; Jeep won't be able to keep them on the lots.

[@backwoodstherapy]

Won't happen. Federal regulations alone demand a backup camera for passenger vehicles, and a lot of the other stuff people say makes the Wrangler too expensive. Most Wrangler owners never off road theirs, anyway. They're mall crawlers. People want to look off roady and active even if they never leave the mall parking lot and the most off roading they do is a gravel road that any Camry could do, and they want to be comfortable while doing it. The price _does_ need to come down, I agree. But they're simply not worth what jeep is selling them for, and the decreased sales is reflecting that. We've been saying for a while that jeep will increase the prices as long as people are willing to pay. We've reached the point where people are no longer willing to pay.

[@ronbyram3880]

@@smarticus6384 my 1978 cj5 was 6318.00 v8 hd cooling 3 speed. No radio no ac no carpet. I miss my cj

[@trailrunnah8886]

That would probably cost more, because it's such a deviation from the regular model. In mass production, deviations cost money.

[@trailrunnah8886]

​@@ronbyram3880adjusted for inflation, that's a little over 30k today. So yeah, even adjusting for inflation It's still a little cheaper than what you get today.

[@TomazHilton]

⁠@@trailrunnah8886someone finally gets it. Now a manufacturer has to find a supplier who still produces mechanics for manually operated windows. That alone adds complexity & $$$ to the process

[@ronbyram3880]

Jeep is pricing themselves out can’t afford one now

[@erikdahl3171]

The real sales issue with the wrangler is the pricing on them currently.

[@redst9364]

Two words Stalantis + greed 😅

[@thestrange_1]

Bottom line, most people don’t have $60k-$70k+ to dump into a stock off-road vehicle, that’s why new Wranglers and Broncos are sitting on car lots. Jeep and Ford are pricing themselves out of the “weekend warrior” market where folks want a daily driver they’re not afraid to bash up a bit. Unless you’re rich, most people can’t afford to chance damaging their band new off-roader when they’re already $70k+ in the hole.

[@backwoodstherapy]

Agreed. A new Rubicon with all options should top out at $55k. A well equipped Sport S should be no more than $40k. Especially when vehicles like a CX50 can be had with heated leather seats and AWD and blind spot monitoring and adaptive cruise control for about $30-32k. You could argue that people aren't cross shopping a Wrangler and a CX50, but I'd argue you'd be wrong. Because like you said, most people don't want to bash up a new $70k vehicle on the trail. A CX50 gives people what they want with a Wrangler - capability in bad weather, cool looks, and it's _way_ more comfortable. Most Wrangler owners won't take the doors and top off. And they won't take theirs off road, ever. I'm rambling a bit, but the point is, _jeep has to bring prices down if they want to move wranglers._

[@chrisgill7824]

​​@@backwoodstherapyI agree the prices need to come down, but you can't take the doors or roof off a CX50.. I see way more naked jeeps this time of year than ones with the doors and roof on. It's much more than you think. Many may not go off road, but just about all of them have the roof off and doors removed.

[@backwoodstherapy]

@@chrisgill7824 maybe where you live. I'm a Wrangler owner myself, but the heat index the last two weeks has been over 100⁰ here so only people with high heat tolerances do that here lol. Don't get me wrong, I'd do it myself more often if I didn't have a 2 year old that overheats easily. 😅 I do wonder how often Wrangler owners take their doors and tops off. I'd make a poll in the forums but I feel like the type of people who hang out in jeep forums are disproportionately going to be the type to do exactly that. 🤣

[@charlienevergold3654]

$42k for an entry level Jeep!?!? We just bought my wife a platinum pathfinder AWD for $48k. I know it’s not as capable as a Jeep but it’s 100x more comfortable to be in.

[@emikomina]

about 90% of Jeep owners won't even do any serious offroading that your pathfinder can't do

[@charlienevergold3654]

@@emikomina agreed. I’d like to see the stats on what percentage of Jeep owner go off-road regularly, yearly and never. Same with truck owners. What percentage tow or actually put something over 500lbs in the bed regularly, yearly ever. I know several 3/4 ton HD diesel owners that have never towed anything. These are also the guys complaining about carbon deposits and the truck runs bad. They look at me like I’m crazy when I say “tow something, get 6000 lbs on a trailer and pull some hills with it once a month.”

[@hedges00]

Think the Jeep looks GREAT and doesn't need a big "redesign" - it's iconic. But it does need big changes with the power trains and bring new capabilities to the platform, especially with the electrification brought on by 4xe. Jeep needs to really think through how people want to use these vehicles when going on their various adventures.

[@frankr111th]

I think Jeep needs to build a less expensive vehicle that sits below the Wrangler that can go off road. It doesn't have to be as capable as a Wrangler but it needs to be cheaper. They should look to do a modern day CJ3.

[@inevahdie]

I’m guessing it’ll be very hard for jeep to make one that meets modern crash standards.

[@PossumWaffen]

I would love that, but too many people will want this or that minor upgrade, and the dealerships would rather order a vehicle with more than people need because they know people will spend the extra money.

[@YuenanCao]

Heck I’ll take a JK even - my 2016 JK might be the last Jeep I own

[@husker_nation]

They did, it's the Cherokee Trailhawk 🧐🤔😃😉

[@Heavydrop1981]

Price is the problem with jeep as some one who bought two 21 Willy’s it’s almost 10k more for the same equipment today

[@nlken7175]

It all comes down to price. Overpriced don't sell as we can see with the RAM trucks and new Tacoma.

[@xXxRedNinty9xXx]

The problem with Wrangler is it used to be a spartan vehicle. Tires, wheels, axles, frame, powertrain, tub, and top. Capable of going anywhere, the driver pointed it. Now, and this is where the problem lies, Wrangler is so bloated that it's unrecognizable. What is the point of buying a vehicle that has removable doors and then equip said vehicle with power mirrors, power windows, and power door locks? Wrangler needs to ditch that which is unnecessary while still leaving all the off-road goodies that we enjoy.

[@michaelvecera8394]

agreed…problem is that it’s still spartan and build quality horrible but priced like a Range Rover

[@xXxRedNinty9xXx]

@michaelvecera8394 I'm not going to argue the build quality and price point. Those definitely need to be addressed. And I'm not sure if we hold the same definition for "spartan." I don't think a vehicle is spartan if it includes things like power windows, power and heated mirrors, power door locks, power and heated seats, remote keyless entry, etc. All of those things either come standard on Wrangler, or they can be added. And again, for a vehicle with removable doors and roof, I view those things as unnecessary costs.

[@kc510]

@@xXxRedNinty9xXxyeah, I was going to say my 1991 Wrangler had heat out of the floor and defroster only. No AC. Two speakers and not even a tape deck. No ABS. No airbags. It did have fuel injection though!

[@pabo8080]

I bet if they lowered the price on the Wrangler which is overpriced, they would sell more units.

[@joenunziato4346]

It’s simple they raised the prices way to high!

[@roblopez-yy3nd]

I agree with your opinion that the market needs a $35k Wrangler. Look at Ford’s success with the Maverick!

[@davidjernigan8161]

Most manufacturers sales are down. Stellantis in particular because they are way overpriced, and of questionable quality.

[@Motor-City_Ben-Diesel]

Yup way over priced along with all the trucks on the market and quality sucks. Baby wrangler would’ve crushed, but they decided to go with an EV renegade lolololoool.

[@jjtjjt3442]

Bottom line is at the high price JL once we mod the jeep everyone is just going to hold on to them and not upgrade. They are losing repeat business at these prices

[@michelle-lz8tg]

just give us the Suzuki jimmy and be done with it....

[@hi9580]

Jimny BEV.

[@Gnargoyle811]

What an outrageous hypothetical….

[@snupermoto723]

Jeep without Wrangler is like McDonald's without Big-Mac.

[@user-dd7fm9mz5e]

Wrangler sales are down bause they are charging outrageous prices even for base models.

[@ejesoriginal]

Stellantis: "Here Toyota, hold my beer".

[@Inferno45]

And Ford. The sad part is GM doesnt even wana try to enter this market. They all just hate making money ig

[@shdw6662]

Toyota: can’t, hands full at the moment.

[@cremazie]

They need to de-content the wrangler to bare bones and sell a true base model. No screens, no power options and heck even throw in a NA 4 cylinder.

[@davidjernigan8161]

If someone has spent the cash to kit out their current Wrangler and it is still fairly trouble free do you want to do it all over again on a new vehicle?

[@ridgecamper18]

That's what I was thinking. I'm not giving up my 2018 JLUR overland build. I've upgraded and added on to much stuff to start over.

[@richfarfugnuven6308]

Still have my massively upgraded 2005 Rubicon...

[@roadsplorer]

Wrangler is supposed to be a cheap off roader. It is not cheap plus doesn't help all the dealers keep the 4xe on the lots.

[@wilmarbarrick3194]

Jeep already came out with a new model... the Jeep REPO

[@shekharmoona544]

No it is not. The biggest issue is still final pricing at dealerships. Base models are priced 5-10 k above MSRP still.

[@timothyreents9826]

Jeep sales are primarily down due to high prices and inflation. If the Wrangler changes significantly, Jeep will die. Jeep needs a low priced, base Wrangler that can be upgraded with options such as lockers and 35's. Jeep's desire to compete in the Land Rover high price space is a mistake. Sure, you can have a luxury model, but the majority of Jeep models need to be reasonably priced and off road capable. I do believe the leadership doesn't understand the American market place, and they have made the mistake of removing American leadership and replacing them with people who dont understand the market here.

[@armandocardona6975]

issue is the price. 54k for a two door rubicon is funny

[@kkcarlson24]

Wrangler sales are down because they keep raising the price!

[@JohnC-hj3dr]

I will say that stellantis is not that dumb to discontinue a vehicle that is actually popular / profitable, oh wait they are they already dropped the charger, the 300 and the challenger. So I wouldn't put it past then to drop the wrangler! ! But once of the biggest reason as to why the wrangler is not selling gear is that 10 years ago that was the only off roader with 2-4 doors so Jeep got last and complacent! And really did anything to really update it and keep it fresh! So fast forward 10 years and now so many more vehicles that are filling in that segment that for the longest time only the wrangler use to fill! Without help really updating the power train and body to keep it really fresh I see that the wrangler sales will continue to drop

[@nwmetalbug]

Ill stay with my 97 TJ. Its fun to drive and will do 90 percent of what the new jeeps do and its cheap to repair.

[@brusmash5430]

Just 5 short years ago I custom built a 2019 JL Rubicon manual with about every check box selected I could… 45 grand out the door! I love driving it every day. I think the lack of power compared to competitors and obscene prices are what’s eating away at those sales.

[@pablochacon40]

The new vehicle prices are so stupid high and on top with high interest rates that is a recipe for disaster for any car maker.

[@Canada-life-nature]

I think The price of new cars/trucks is crazy for average people I need to upgrade my truck but I can’t afford it right now because Interest rates are so high

[@roblopez-yy3nd]

I’ve always dreamed on owning a Wrangler. But they are too expensive and very unreliable.

[@WillysOverland]

Very unreliable? Is that what you hear from people that put 40s on them then drive them over boulders bigger then the jeep itself?

[@user-pgchargerse71]

Expensive, yes but not unreliable

[@captdramamine]

Seems like Jeep is turning into a premium luxury brand. Ending the Wrangler would be like Porsche discontinuing the 911. It is the brand's identity.

[@Inferno45]

I think they wana be a direct competitor to Land Rover which doesnt make sense from a business perspective since jeep sells more suvs and trucks than land rover.

[@stevelouie5928]

Just make a jeep that is like the suzuki jimny. No one is going to care if the inside is full of plastic and has manual everything if the price is 30k

[@abqcrutch]

I'm 60 and have purchased two new vehicles in my lifetime. A '96 Ram 1500 4x4 and an '12 F-150 XLT 2WD. I only buy used vehicles today. I just don't see the value in spending $50k+ on a new vehicle. That said, I love watching your channels. I also love the dynamic duo of Tommy & Kase.

[@Inferno45]

Yeah buying a new car is a waste of money unless you make a over $200k a year or are planning to buy a Japanese car and keep it till it breaks.

[@BaconCruiser]

If the wrangler was all V8 through the lineup at the same price points it would sell like hotcakes and the used market would be flooded with the old V6 models. No one wants a 4Xe.

[@cmagnus7062]

Not everyone wants a V8 Wrangler. It's a useless vehicle. All it does is make a good sound and that's about it. It doesn't tow anymore, doesn't have anymore payload and it's a hell of a lot more thirsty. A Wrangler isn't meant to be fast.

[@dirf554]

Ha that won’t happen that would be JEEP brand suicide

[@scubasteve10000]

I feel like what ever redesign they do to the wrangler is gonna be a let down. Me personally think the jl is the best looking generation out there.

[@spcneary]

It’s a great time to be a car enthusiast, if you have lots of money. The average person is not spending frivolously right now, just slow down production until the economy improves.

[@backwoodstherapy]

Wranglers aren't selling because the price is too high. A base Wrangler unlimited with the auto transmission and hard top (the way most people would buy it) is like $52k MSRP. I did a cursory search on autotrader and they've got those priced at like $10k under MSRP to get them to sell. Because there's absolutely no way a vehicle like the Wrangler is worth north of $50k when it doesn't even come standard with things like blind spot monitoring, built in garage door opener, adaptive cruise control, or heated seats (all things my wife's Mazda CX5 came standard with like 4 years ago, at $26k MSRP). I'd hope the Wrangler doesn't lose its solid front axle, and maybe offering a variant with an IFS would be better. I seriously doubt Jeep will discontinue the Wrangler, however. They just need to realize that people can't and won't pay $60k for a Rubicon. The price of a new Rubicon alone is likely responsible for the lower sales.

[@shiftintosunshine]

Weird how Wrangler sales are inversely correlated with price increases. Actually, not weird.

[@skoVBA2]

All have gone up, i bought a 23 bronco badlands loaded for 52k, with the coupon bring a day one res holder, same spec in 24 is 68k. Thats crazy..

[@jpi8726]

Stop overthinking this. The Wrangler’s sales problems are not because it needs a ‘refresh’. Nor are they a product of its lack of independent front suspension. It’s because they are TOO EXPENSIVE. When my 2012 JK recently died, my first choice was to go and get a new JL to replace it. Only to learn that I couldn’t find one on a dealer lot for less than 54k. As a previous Wrangler owner, all I wanted was a 2-door, cloth top with a manual transmission to replace my old one. All I saw on dealer lots was overloaded, luxury fluff-boxes with heated ashtrays, 19 way adjustable seats and 5k of electronic nonsense that I didn’t need. Radical refreshes and sweeping changes to front suspension design will only exacerbate this problem. Jeep needs to remind themselves of what made these trucks so iconic in the first place and start making it possible for their core audience to afford them again. There are plenty of other SUVs available for soccer moms to choose from.

[@mestallbaumer]

Well, if they would adjust their pricing and dump the hybrid engines they would sell more vehicles. $70K for a Rubicon is stupid expensive for most people.

[@TealOxAdv]

5:33 I agree that Broncos are close to Wranglers, but I’ve seen a greater percentage of Broncos broken on trails than Wranglers.

[@bmwloco]

Stallantis has stated if they do sell well, Adios. That includes Wrangler.

[@planesandbikes7353]

The Jeep sales are merely settling back to normal. 2021-2023 was an insane buying frenzy, bounceback from Covid austerity, followed by a sharp uptick in interest rates. The whole auto industry saw a similar drop in sales this year - the only exception was Toyota and that is because they throttled sales the last 2 years very heavily creating year long waitlist to order a car, meaning they could have sold a lot more the last 2 years.

[@myblujl7503]

In 2019, I found a fully loaded 2018 JLU stuck on the lot with a sticker of 47K and got the dealer down to 38K. Its still an amazing vehicle and I love it. I cant even imagine paying 70-80K for a Wrangler.

[@paulhasty8388]

Part of the problem is for what you get the prices are too high! Stellantis is pricing Jeep out of the market!

[@johnnyboxhead5289]

I bought a brand new JLUR in March of 2018 for right over $40k that has leather, LED lights, cold weather, and a hard top (sticker was $49k but I got it from a high volume dealer near the last day of the month). While you can’t spec a JLUR the exact same way today, the most comparable is between $65k-$70k. I tell people all the time, I wouldn’t be able to reasonably afford a new JLUR, and I’m a mid-career professional in middle management at a large corporation. How does Jeep expect to sell these vehicles? The reality is, the current prices are a response to the immense inflation in the vehicle markets due to supply chain shocks and Covid stimulus. The problem is, by the time Jeep raised their MSRP, the demand had already softened and now there’s so much supply they will have to discount heavily. My local Jeep dealer is barely moving any Wranglers AND they have a line of 20-30 of them unprepped (still with plastic wrap) sitting behind their building that don’t fit on the lot. And that’s before the 2025s start arriving in a few months. With sales down 21% YoY, those Wranglers may be sitting a very long time.

[@toddmason918]

Keep the solid front axle, the trails out here in colorado dictate the need for articulation and some roll overs on black bear pass with the broncos have largely been because of lack of articulation.

[@sbkbg]

Recently go a Jeep and love it. While shopping around I drove a 2024 Bronco and it was like driving a U-haul van on the road. Jeep JL was way better plus had nicer features at similar cost. I think you guys answered the main reason for JL sales drip midway through the vid- it's the cost of Jeeps but also all cars post-pandemic is way too high! People are keeping their older models running well and saving from super costly upgrades. Plus like you also mentioned minimal refreshes reduce incentive to pay to upgrade for existing JL owners. I think if the 4xE had a longer range than 25-30 miles of electric range, say at least 45-65 miles, that would give a major reason to upgrade.

[@AndrewMcDonald]

Jeep raised it's prices by almost 20%, and hey, their sales are off. Hmmm.

[@jeeper5264]

Avid Jeeper here...owned 8 wranglers over the years and currently in a 2020 Gladiator which I will never get rid of but I think the sweet spot for wrangler is a (LJ size) long wheelbase 2 door with a 350-400 hp hurricane auto and or stick availability with about a $5-$7k +reduction of MSRP across the models..it would sell like the 4 door and be way better off road then the four door (which is a great platform mind you)

[@TaskForceOffroad]

Problem with the wrangler number is that all that is on lots are 4xe i havent seen 1 turbo or v6 on a lot and people don’t want the 4xe

[@anthonycampbell6648]

Didn't jeep already said that they wasn't gonna kill the wrangler when they first showed off the recon.

[@Kliffy77]

Stellantis shot its self on the foot, The Jeep Wrangler has a weak old engine, You have to pay extra for stuff that should come as a standard equipment, Example on Rubicon you pay extra to get 35 inch tires and steel bumpers and soo! Unrealistic Prices! EV’s are garbage no one wants them.

[@dvader3263]

Sure, Tesla sold only 1.8 million EVs in 2023. That's more EVs than Ford sold in trucks. Nobody wants EVs.😂

[@mblake0420]

Has plenty of power lol

[@michaelvecera8394]

Sales figures are down for obvious reasons. 1) Jeep is pricing the vehicle out of reach 2) quality is well below par for a vehicle at this price range 3) Interest Rates are horrible

[@user-dh1hn9zn7l]

Price. Jeep has lost their minds on pricing and people are speaking with their wallets.

[@Tinker3504]

From a sales perspective, I think it’s crazy Jeep hasn’t introduced an IFS off roader. Dropping the wranglers solid axle platform is crazy. Too many of us on 37’s, 40’s, 42’s, doing axle swaps, and actually using them. But for the 90% of owners that slap on 35’s and put ducks on their dash, an IFS setup will much better serve them. Cut down the number of options on the SA wranglers and watch the sales skyrocket.

[@AndrewCoetzee-m6c]

Why change a recipe that works? VW beetle, Land Rover Defender etc. Who needs all those extras for off roading?

[@Jay-bw3fl]

Everyone complains when there is any change and they complain when there isn’t. The biggest issues with the wrangler IMO are 1. It’s price and 2. It’s new competition

[@stevemelby3470]

I can't afford the price of an EV, I can't charge an EV at home, can't afford the insurance on an EV & there's only two places to charge an EV in my town....one of those is for Teslas. Is electric the only technological option we have for the future? Ugh

[@dvader3263]

An EV can be charged at home on a 120 volt outlet if a person drives around 40 miles per day. If a person can sit at a Supercharger for 15-20 minutes, twice per week. That'll also work if living in an apartment. While sitting a Supercharger, a person can text, read emails, surf the web, listen to music, nap, play games, work on a computer, shop online, shop at a store, grab a snack, food or coffee. Do people ever do any of those things while at home? People seem to have time to wait in line for 15 to 20 minutes for Costco gas every week, 52 weeks per year. If an EV driver has a house and can charge at home, there's no more going to gas stations once or twice a week. No more oil changes, no more brake jobs and no stolen catalytic converters. In many areas, EVs can save $200 per month or more in fuel costs. Your smart phone and computer run on electricity, as does most of the world. It takes electricity to run a gas station and to pump and pay for gas. Refining oil takes electricity. Everything on a gas vehicle runs on electricity. Without electricity, gas cars are a brick.

[@stevemelby3470]

@@dvader3263 I understand how much we rely on electricity currently and adding vehicles to the grid is a significant concern. I'm not defending gas cars or supporting EVs. We just need a cheaper option & at this stage batteries aren't the answer. EVs cost too much, insurance on EVs is way too high, tires will wear out quicker due to the vehicles being heavier & operating these vehicles when the temperature drops below freezing are some of the reasons batteries are not ideal. I wish everyone could set aside their ideology and come up with a better option.

[@captainpaddy1524]

I just went into the Jeep and Ford configurators and built a "comparable" (as much as I could) Wrangler and Bronco. The Bronco is more expensive. Plus, there are currently some manufacturers incentives with the Wrangler and Stellantis dealers seem more willing to deal than are Ford dealers right now. What pops out for me is the difference in drive trains. I question the durability of the Ford turbo engine versus the tried and true Pentastar. Plus, I assume that the Wrangler has a ZF transmission; which, in my mind is a better choice than Ford's. So, is the Wrangler over-priced? Absolutely! But, so is the Bronco; probably more so.

[@jcollins1305]

I was told by someone who would know that the Ford 4cyl is”Junk”

[@musclecarsrt2324]

I watch these videos because I love information and at one time I worked on Jeeps at a dealer for several years. I personally can't stand straight axles unless I off road every day. I rather have Independent suspension all around and drive on the streets. Who can or will spend 50-100k and these Jeeps off road unless you have money to throw away.

[@wesalexander2693]

The Wrangler is such a unique, iconic vehicle, it's hard to imagine an automotive environment without it. Ending the Wrangler in anything like its current form would be a huge mistake in my view. But please, get rid of the stupid auto stop/start "feature"!

[@garretlewis4103]

Part of the 2024 Wrangler “refresh” was the price “refresh” AKA as a price increase. The Wrangler use to be the capable off road vehicle that didn’t break the bank. I am sure the price increases have resulted in the sales decline.

[@JonathanTacoman]

Got my 2014 jk for $36000 , decently equipped. Payed it off and will not be buying another one if these prices stay this high

[@bvon336]

I think the side by side market has killed the possibility of a cheap wrangler.

[@TheSara200424]

The price is key. I want a grand wagoneer but with the prices going so high it’s not worth it rather just buy a used Chevy or ford and save 50k

[@choosingadventure]

I’d be interested in a comparison of the last model mid-cycle refresh numbers to include % of price increase and profitability. Speculation here, but I imagine the Wrangler to be more profitable now with the price hikes even with less units. Great content as always.

[@Mariposaland]

One thing that could be effecting Wrangler sales is the new hurricane engine that is supposed to replace the 3.6L in 2025. I would wait a year for that.

[@scorpio13617]

There is no substitute for the Jeep Wrangler in it’s current form. Nothing on the market comes close to its capability, aftermarket parts availability, and pedigree. It’s the automotive symbol of America.

[@robervin9107]

I’m curious what older two door Jeeps are and how affordable. Kase and tommy well done incredible job

[@lowmansdue]

The problem is the pricing not the public or the vehicle

[@andygiametta517]

The appropriate comparison would be op profit year to year. I’m not saying that is up, but they increased wrangler prices significantly over the last year. The 17% reduction doesnt look as bad if profit per vehicle has increased by 10-15%.

[@mattdagger1480]

Holy cow. Never thought I'd agree with Tommy about the ifs at aight axle jeep debate haha. As a full time master tech and a owner of a 2024 Ford bronco that I ordered I do fully agree with Tommy. I made my decision on the bronco over the jeep primarily due to the maintenance, long term issues, and the drivability of the straight axes on the jeep. To each their own but I've been able to make it everywhere my jeep buddies have and had a much easier drive to the trail vs them 🤷‍♂️

[@seadoo4life127]

My 21 Willys was $47k. That same Jeep in 24 is 53k. I get that the Bronco came to market with more fancy stuff. Jeep should be keeping it simple at a better price point. Let Bronco be Bronco. Let all the fools spend $60 plus on that. Also.. they need to stop pushing that EV model! Ford isn’t doing this!

[@ChrisPark]

The issue with the Wrangler sales is 100% related to the price. Jeep killed their momentum because they raised the prices by tens of $thousands over the past 3 years.

[@pwrofgrayskull]

Nope. Straight axles or I’m not buying. Period. I’ve had both setups several times throughout the years and I’ve always been much happier with my straight axle rigs. I don’t care about on-road ride and manners. I want the off road capability and durability.

[@WillysOverland]

I haven't purchased a new Wrangler since the TJ Apex in 2004. I refuse to pay the prices these cars are today. I have a 2020 Willy's now but I purchased it used in 2023 for about half of what the sticker was and with only 40k on it.

[@danotto8970]

I’m good with Recon being the soft, fancy EV with IFS and keeping the Wrangler the rock crawler with an engine : ) but would love a bare bones Rubicon/Willy’s without all the fancy stuff that we can afford and are not afraid to take off road.

[@edwinborrayo2010]

Some improvements that might be worth it. Increase the passenger space in the 4-door jeeps, make the passenger seats reclinable, after all if you buy a 4-door it is because you know you will travel with company and it must be more comfortable for them. Above all I heard that they want to remove the 3.6 engine and replace it with a twin turbo inline 6, bad idea. Leave the Dana 44 with a 4.10 ratio as standard.

[@spenceralridge4958]

This is all about two things - use case and alternatives. The fact is that while there are quite a few folks that enjoy going off road regularly, the vast majority of folks do not, even folks that buy jeeps. There are, however, a lot of folks that like the image and the unique features (removable doors, convertible with a roll cage, etc.) For a long time the Wrangler was simply the only game in town. But, the Bronco came in and changed the landscape. It may not be as good of a base for building a serious off-road rig, but only a tiny percentage of folks actually do that (and the ones that do almost never start with a new vehicle). However it looks good, has many of the same “lifestyle” features that folks loved in the Wrangler and is far more comfortable on the road, where these cars spend 99 percent of their time. Jeep has to be careful not to alienate its loyal fan base, but it also cannot continue to build a dinosaur just because there are a few paleontologists out there.

[@rayhinojosa9721]

We just got a 2024 wrangler 4 door Willys for 44k. That edition now comes with a rear locker and slightly bigger tires.

[@scottmartin6456]

Bronco owner here, IFS system is weaker than solid axel. If I had the choice to do it over, I would buy the 392JL.