Is Mike Winger Wrong? Responding to Mike Winger' New Series Start...

[@abeautifulmoment2714]

I think a lot of people assume women are asking these questions because they want power, when in reality it's a heavy question of "Why is God putting limits on me due to my body parts?" The Bible never excludes men from children's ministry, it's only women that are being excluded from things (if you accept complementarian theology). Preaching and leadership in ministry are highly valued as the Bible says "Whomever desires this (role of overseer) desires a GOOD thing".In addition, pastors are valued in our culture, since its one of the only positions we pay for monetarily. The pastor is probably the most respected role in the church, whether we like it or not. It's only natural that a woman would be asking why she wouldn't be allowed to participate in that role - especially if she had a spiritual gift of teaching and an abundance of education.

[@lisawilson9191]

something I've been learning lately is that whilst God loves us and wants the best for us, He will NEVER call us to do something that isn't biblical. I think a lot of the time people confuse God's calling with straight forward human desires and goals. it doesn't matter how much you WANT something, if the bible says no, It's not from God because He is unchanging.

[@missmaria3364]

Well said, sister. Amen.

[@LJ-gt7vi]

Amen!

[@fadingblackdreams1306]

Amen! I noticed she said she can't pick a side because she will lose friends. Being a Christian already will make you lose friends unless you're one that compromises to please the world instead of pleasing God. That's interesting... I lost so many friends and had a point where I had no friends but God was my friend and now had blessed me with Biblical Christian friends. Our focus should not be will I lose friends but the opposite. Idc if I lose friends choosing to follow Christ and what the Bible clearly states.

[@reedemed_caleb]

@@fadingblackdreams1306 yeah, but in a sense. We need to question why then God calls woman to lead in worship,to be pastor,to be prophetess,evangelist and childrens teacher etc… if the Paul said that women shouldn’t teach? It doesn’t make sense on how The Holy Spirit is backing up those women in ministry

[@melwade8216]

I agree with the others here; well said. You make a very important point. One has to understand that honoring and obeying your husband does not include committing suicide if he demands it of us (just a point pulled from the air). We have to understand that God can and will use whomever He wants to continue to call people to Him. Read the Word, study the Word, love the Word; but do it with an understanding that this world has changed a great deal from those times. Now, and especially now we need to get the Word out to as many people as will listen. If that means a woman will lead some to God, I don't believe He would be ashamed of her or be repelled. All God's children need to 'go to war' with the Good News so more souls can be saved. Let's not waste one precious soul to Satan just because a woman leads the fight.

[@carolynprince1181]

I love Mike Winger. He is always very thoughtful and doesn’t discuss topics before throughly researching them. I may not always agree with him but he is worth listening to in my opinion. Searching for truth is a good thing as long as you are searching to find truth and not to prove an agenda. Remember that you cannot rely on feelings, “The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked: who can know it?” Always check how you feel and scripture.

[@j.clements2093]

I think you can learn from both. My pastor, like Mr. Winger is not a Bible scholar. I obviously learn and grow listening to my pastor. I also love Bible scholars. They have played a pivotal role in strengthening my faith too. I’ve learned from winger and I’ve learned from scholars like C.S. Lewis, RC Sproul, and the latest discovery, Wesley Huff. Have you guys heard about the latest Wesley Huff /Billy Carson debate? Let’s just say the devil was shown to be the weasel he is and the Lord was Glorified. People are literally coming to Christ because of this young Bible scholar.

[@jennprescott2757]

I loved his first episode of this series and can’t wait for the rest of the videos to come out. I’ve only watched the first one and it was really good to make us think about our own biases. We NEED to think biblically on it - not emotionally or culturally or preferentially- but Biblically!

[@run4cmt]

Part two was also incredibly good and thoughtful. He actually admitted he wanted to find that women could have any role they desired in the church. So his personal bias was toward this. After his study and review he found the Bible does not support that.

[@robertpreisser3547]

Recommend watching both Mike’s source videos as well as these response videos. That is probably the best way to approach how to think Biblically on this complex topic.

[@BooksofHighStrangeness]

The Bible is clear about this until our flesh tries to interpret it.

[@HoldFastApolpgetics]

Yes :)! Exegesis not eisegesis

[@teachmywordministries277]

Yes, we need to think scripturally about it while including the entire Bible and ALL the examples of women in leadership roles.

[@tinaf600]

Let's not base true on our feelings. It's not about our feelings. It's about the Truth of what's in God's Holy Word.

[@Himmiefan]

Mike and others like him read the Bible through the lenses of the sinful, fallen world that uplifts male-entitlement. There’s a reason why evangelical churches attract narcissistic men and creat narcissistic men. Now, as for interpreting the Bible, Mike and others forget or don’t realize that only Christ can determine doctrine. Paul and the others can only explain and proclaim the good news. So, if a teaching of Paul cannot be directly traced back to a teaching of Christ, then it’s just a situation Paul was dealing with at the time and not for all time, such as women in First Tim. when the cult of Artemis was infiltrating the church since the women had not been educated in sound teachings. Also, all the Ephesian verses are an example of Christ’s command to love one another with aspects of femininity and masculinity thrown in. There’s no hierarchy there, no who’s the boss, etc. Just relationship and love.

[@kathydanvers9205]

Turning 70 tomorrow and this issue of a woman's role in the church has always been so clear for me and has brought contentment & clarity. I have lately been privileged to lead a few women's Bible studies, studying the scriptures themselves using other references for insight & discernment rather than relying on a separate study book written by another woman has deepened my walk with the Lord. I'm not spending my study time answering someone else's questions but I get to search for answers to my own. I immensely enjoy discussing scripture with my brothers in Christ because men often process things so differently than women. They often give me another viewpoint to consider. I've never felt called to instruct men. It doesn't mean I don't speak up with my own thoughts in such a discussion, but I respect the position I believe God has uniquely created men to fulfill.

[@pdxnikki1]

Happy Birthday elder sister! God bless you!

[@KristiLEvans1]

Aw! I love this post. Thank you for responding to this so beautifully. God continue to bless you.

[@cocoazen]

Hi Kathy! I want to agree with the other comment - thanks for gifting the comment section with this thoughtful response!

[@curtiseisenbeis2484]

But I thought Mike Wingers point was never that women cannot lead, he just believes that the Lead Pastor role is reserved for men.

[@curtiseisenbeis2484]

I think he other videos on the topic that talks about just leading.

[@ruthannfreeman8433]

This is the first video I’ve ever watched of you. I also watch Mike Winger. I was relating in what you said in regards to feel ing right in the middle of the subject of women in leadership. I was brought up in a complementary more or less viewpoint, yet currently attending a church with women in leadership. knowing I still have more to learn, and digging deep into the subject, God brought peace to my heart over the subject by reminding me that He can do whatever He wants. He can use whoever he chooses. When we raise our hand and say, “use me Lord” He just may. Just as he has used the most unlikely person in times past. God bless you as you seek Him. Our God and Savior never disappoints!

[@autumnvalerio1231]

Mike Winger ... yah he’s pretty good! Studied the Mark series with him over 40 hours. He knows his apologetics. I appreciate him ! God bless you all 🕊

[@bibleman7757]

Mark does not he a joke

[@critical_mass6453]

@@bibleman7757 seriously 'bible man'¿? If Mike is a joke then why are you making me laugh.

[@sheRoyals]

As an older woman, this topic was hard on me when I was younger. However, As I became a wife, mother, and now grandmother so much has changed on my views. Now as an Elder woman, the call to teach, to share to even preach makes sense because all of my life experience has led me to now train the younger women, my grandchildren, while still understanding my greatest influence is how my walk with God does and will affect the men in my life. My Dad, husband, brothers and sons. As a woman with all of these other roles, it seems clear to me where God placed the gifting and roles. How easily ministry with women seems to flow spiritually, meaning I see the fruit that it bears and it is long lasting. As a young woman, my only advice would be to heed the witness of the Elder woman in your family. I would also caution to beware the examples put forth as a successful example of women teachers over men. Many have gained incredible earthly success, but have come at a high cost. Just because you can do something the question always arises BUT does God's purpose for my life allow me to produce the most effective healthy fruit. I can't answer that for anyone else. Simply wanted to share my heart as someone that changed views as I became older, a little more grey headed and looking back at how God has worked in my life. I pray you and all here would call on the Almighty, that His perfect Spirit of Truth would lead you to His grace, His purposes in your lives and that we all would produce fruit that would share the the Good News of Jesus with the world! Amen!

[@gracel316]

Also, you are more effective at teaching younger women than a man would be because of your life experiences. For example, when I was younger I struggled over the topic of dressing modestly, whenever a man would tell me something I'd feel like they were trying to impose something over me. However now I understand and I wish that a woman had spoken to me from her perspective.

[@jordandthornburg]

@@gracel316 ok, but to address your example, was that the man’s fault or your fault for your response to it?

[@jordandthornburg]

I’m a complimentarian and I don’t think I disagree with any of that Shellina.

[@jaerae8144]

@@jordandthornburg Hi. :) :) Just want to say it's not necessarily a fault to struggle with understanding something, or to think that perhaps the person doesn't have a good reason for the exact standard they want you to follow, or that they perhaps don't have enough insight as the person they are to be saying it. It just means that you are wary. I've had men try to give me standards I don't agree are Biblical, even though the principle was Biblical, just not the exact standard which I felt was unnecessary. Also, we are called to submit to our husbands, not every man out there in every way. Sometimes other people do try to impose things wrongly, which makes us wary of other people that might be right further down the line. We just have to learn to see it from every point, and then choose what God wants us to do. But I don't think being wary of another's judgement on a matter, especially if it is a matter that doesn't apply to them or their experience as much, I don't think that's a fault. Have a good day :)

[@anabaird3835]

🥰🤗

[@tagaldersibes]

I’m a huge fan of Mike - and I LOVE your honest, heartfelt comments!! I really appreciated when you said that it’s tough for a woman not to feel unequal - boy have I struggled with this. I’ll pray for both of us!

[@HowtoFaithALife]

Yes, I think some people didn't pick up on the fact that I was purposefully adding that it *feels* unequal because most men don't take into account the underlying messages of their complementation beliefs and definitely don't try to pay attention to how it might make women feel. And that's a basic thing we need to do in love (like Jame's law of love!)- be mindful of what the underlying messages we are communicating about our theology. I'd also say this: we are given feelings by God Himself. While our feelings are not authoritative like the Word of God, they should inform our thinking and if it *feels* like complementarians are saying women are not equal we should ask WHY!

[@friedrichrubinstein]

Thank you for your honest review of Mike's video! I do have a question though: Why do you think preaching the gospel to the world (which we'd call being a missionary) is related to being an elder in a church? I thought the debate about "women in ministry" is about certain roles inside a local church, unrelated to missionaries. Just like you can freely teach on KZbin as well.

[@starlight-xt7po]

This was my understanding also.

[@marissalorraine8700]

My question too. I didn’t understand the connection. But I see she’s speaking particularly about her own feelings… so she is on this journey actively.

[@run4cmt]

According to Mike the limits are leadership positions. Going out and telling people the Gospel is not a violation of this.

[@gospelfreak5828]

There are some hardcore complimentarians I believe who would say there can be zero teaching at all. So publically teaching men even if you aren’t their elder would still be a no no. But I’m not sure how popular that sort of view is. I feel as if most complimentarians are soft complimentarians that believe women can lead in other areas accept in a local church as the head pastor. This issue is a large spectrum, both with their extremes and both with their own nuances. Which is why this issue has been hard to study for me, like what is the roles for marriage and what limits are there to women preaching if there are any. There are multiple ways you can look at it. You can be complimentarian for marriage but egalitarian for women preaching like my Youth Pastor is. It’s a lot

[@kathy3178]

My background is mostly Baptist, Methodist, and Charismatic. The best discussion I ever had on theological differences was with an older gentleman who is a devout Roman Catholic. We weren't attempting to convert each other. It was a rather good and lengthy discussion. I am saddened to think of how much we miss out on when we seek to argue and defend rather than listen and try to understand. Kudos to you for tackling these hard topics in a respectful manner. I have learned a lot from watching your channel. You keep it real and honest.

[@Romans8-9]

"how much we miss out on when we seek to argue and defend rather than listen and try to understand". If you are arguing against false doctrine you are not "missing out" on anything.

[@kamarwashington]

@@Romans8-9 Agreed sometimes it’s worth the “argument” because the person is actually living in falsehood

[@LovelyReba]

I think you are getting caught up in terms a bit. "Preaching" as in teaching and sharing the gossip is not barred to women by Scripture. In fact, Scripture explicity commands women to do both. What is barred is the holding of pastoral and other leadership offices by women. Preaching from a pulpit to a congregation that includes men is a what is forbidden. Also, part of the problem is that women go from 0 to 100 on this issue, with no points in between. I'm either allowed to be ordained as a pastor and preach the Sunday service OR God hates me and I'm a useless sub-human. Like, ladies, really? God is a good God, and the Bible isn't just about what God has forbidden women to do. It's also about what God has called us to. And so many women spend so much time shaking their fists at the sky and gnashing their teeth over what God has said no to, that they throw away the blessings He has prepared His beloved daughters.

[@anamericanfriend2367]

I think the term was "usurping" authority. I tend to think women should not be pastors or teachers of men. And God doesn't hate you simply because you would not be called to pastor. I guess I agree with you.

[@homemakingwisdom]

I believe that there should be women leaders. Not for men but for the women. That shouldn't be discourage or especially not wrong. My church has men's leadership training. And women has book club. I mean really. It's just seems like we are being belittled. Them saying women can't handle the meat of the scriptures so here is a book about your feelings and how to be a Godly wife. Not necessarily wrong, but after you read one book there all the same. I'm just tired of feeling forgotten and belittled. How can I use the spiritual gifts Gods gave me if I'm not aloud too. Why dose the bible say everyone has a spiritual gift? Is the gift of teaching only for the men? I'm I just interpreting the passage wrong? I'm not asking to be a pastor or a preacher or to teach men. I just don't want to be forgotten. I want the church, (at lest my church )to at lest acknowledge that we exist, we are human, we have hopes, dreams a passion for God and his word as much as men do. I dont leave because I do love the people of my church. And my pastors are good people. It's just a hurtful issue I have with a reformed Baptist church.

[@Pacheenee7]

Typo, "sharing the gossip" when im 99% sure you meant gospel.

[@joesteele3159]

I would have to disagree with this. Nowhere in the Bible does God forbid women pastors. Paul simply states to Timothy that he himself doesn't allow women to teach or exercise authority over men. But if we are going to use that as a blanket doctrine at all times in all places and cultures then we're also going to have to start requiring women to wear head coverings and require men to greet each other with a kiss. There are some cultural backgrounds to many of the passages of scripture that we see that requires a deeper study rather than just saying "oh the bible says it".

[@sparkey8065]

Reba second sentence ?

[@SuperSparklesGurl]

I have watched all of the videos in mikes series. That first one made me cry though. Listening to him was the first time I felt heard. The first time I felt like a man understood how heavy and hard and painful this conversation is to me.

[@christopherwalls4337]

I’m not sure I follow that viewing male and female as “equal in value” is coming in with a preconceived notion, considering that Mike has already completed his study. Historically, churches have struggled with believing unbiblical things on occasion. I don’t think “equal in value but not in role” is necessarily a new concept, even in complementarian circles. The Scriptures are pretty clear on this point of all being equal in Christ, whether male, female, Jew, Gentile, slave or free.

[@gracewalton5479]

I'm glad you clarified this because I was surprised she thought the early church didn't believe in equal value. It is clear beyond a doubt that Jesus and the Bible both teach equality in humans regardless of race, gender, or social status. If believers strayed from that belief it was because they weren't applying God's instructions, and that was sin on their part.

[@pdxnikki1]

Essence is different than order and role. My boss is my superior in role only, since someone must serve in that capacity. We are equal however in the eyes of God. My boss is no better or worse than me (believe me! 😂). Role does not equal essence.

[@davidistre7253]

“Equal in value, different in purpose.”

[@WendyWzOpinion]

I think anytime someone tells you not to ask questions about something, that’s probably exactly what you should be digging into scripture to understand. God gave us the Bible so we CAN ask questions. I love Mike Winger’s teaching because he does so many hours of study from as many angles as he can find before he decides where he stands and THEN tries to help us see the angles quickly and tells us where to look to do the studying ourselves if we’re not satisfied with his summary. One of the most balanced, honest Bible teachers I’ve found online or in person.

[@maceawilder]

Thank you for your genuine critique and I hope you find clarity on this. I do need to nitpick one thing you said. “I’m here to present an unbiased view.” We are all biased. If anyone says they are presenting an unbiased view, they are being dishonest with themselves and their audience. You seem like a very genuine person who doesn’t mean to be dishonest when you say this so I wanted to point that out.

[@HowtoFaithALife]

Good point! Thanks for that feedback, Mace!

[@TMiss197]

I was raised Southern Baptist, and women were not to preach, or even teach men. This was drummed into me all my life. In spite of that, I've always felt (and fought against), a call to preach. I've spent a lot of years praying about this, and studying the scriptures, and will be starting the ordination process at my church (I'm now Church of God) this Fall. At 40+ years, I'm going to start. Yet, I haven't come to a strong conclusion about women pastors. I just know that I teach in my church, I lead programs, direct/organize VBS, and serve in many other ways. I've felt the call to study this since I was a child (and I was told that was a bad thing since I was a girl). So I'm going to jump in. Only God knows how He will use it. I figure that more learning and understanding can only be a good thing. So may God bless your efforts and your search.

[@susanbarackman-artist7670]

good for you--it is more important that you follow God's leading in your life, not strangers on FB which you will never meet.

[@enrique967]

Grateful for Mike's exhaustive and detailed analysis of pretty much every source on this egalitarian/complimentarian issue. After watching over 20 hours of his study, you should ask him to dialogue with you on this topic. Thanks for posting.

[@bcupidCA]

Your doing this, your reaching out on this platform to help/teach. I’m glad I found you. Never stop asking questions. That’s how we grow.

[@MyAbidingJournal]

I struggle with this topic too and want to learn more about it. Thank you for being so open and vulnerable; it is SO hard to talk about highly debated topics on the internet, but you did it expertly. :)

[@HowtoFaithALife]

Wow, thank you! I’m cautiously reading all of these comments because it really is scary to talk about the big issues. Thanks for your support and understanding!

[@LT-cy3uj]

Please preach like the Holy Spirit ordained women to (among the 120 men and women in the upper room).

[@peteandrews6354]

Wow! My respect for you just went way up. I personally have not decided where I stand on this issue. I am very interested to see where this leads you. Thank you for bringing your openness to this platform.

[@8784-l3b]

I post on women's matters. I suggest my short postable essay on Deborah. God settled the gender matter with her.

[@florencelinderman3797]

It took a lot of courage to share your thinking, feelings and emotions on this topic. Anytime I hear, "Women are equal to men..." I pause and hope they recognize God says in His Word, "So God-created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them." Therefore, both man and woman are created in the image of the Triune God. Eph 5:22-6:9 Begins Paul's inspired Word of God regarding the roles of man, woman, and children in the family. I bring up family because you are the one who feeds and cares for the baby from conception until... well, in various ways, all their lives. Much different than man!! I can't possibly know your thinking or feelings on this topic. Personally, I think feminism has reared it's head in our churches and convinced women if they aren't standing at a pulpit they have less worth. Lies, lies, LIES. I do feel sad Faith that you may not know the quality of teaching you have given to me, and other women. (Maybe because I'm a woman so I don't count.) God has used YOU in my life to encourage a hunger in me that I have never known. Never!! Have you asked yourself, "Why do I think I have more value if I teach men? Rather than when teaching women and children?" Only the enemy spreads that lie. I pray God provides His truth and peace to you on this subject. Love, Florence Ann

[@HowtoFaithALife]

Thank you for your encouragement Florence! You are always the sweetest! Those are my exact reservations!

[@run4cmt]

Created equal with complimentary roles, not the same roles in the church.

[@rachelm9350]

well while women do not have less worth for not being "behind the pulpit" (a friendly reminder though that only ELDERs were limited) when you go into the complementarian idea of "roles" spilling over into ever aspect of life they are treated differently past that "elder" limitation in complementarian churches. Its why families are an idol in these churches, why singles are basically shoved to the sidelines, and why children are praised non-stop (even if maybe its NOT the best for everyone at all times). Its quite sad.

[@anitarexadams7527]

I appreciate your respectful honesty in this discussion. It is refreshing. Soft comp here. Worked in ministry for 17 years (I’m 54). ❤️ A lot to be learned from Pastors like Mike who approach things so carefully and pastorally. I’ve seen this from my own pastor as well.

[@JimQuinlanEnergyFinance]

Mike is. Cortrct. Stand witj Mike.

[@mikedelgado8460]

I have been comp/patriarchal and am now egalitarian simply from revisiting the same scriptures that supposedly "prove" women are not allowed in ministry. Ill put it this way, I became egal by myself. My wife was reluctant but after hearing the arguments for this, she is now egal with me. We got kicked out of an OPC church we have been attending for a year and prior to that we were dismissed from our Presbyterian church simply because we refused to spank our kids and justified it from the same scriptures that supposedly "prove spanking" and were called heretics...yet we are still members in good standing but homeless still when it comes to having a church home. The pains and blessings of persecution.

[@kerimurphy4240]

Touchdown for Faith for discussing difficult topics. I love Mike Winger and Melissa Dougherty.

[@openlybookish]

I recently discovered them both.

[@amandaleidy1820]

I am in a very similar boat to yours in some ways. Mike Winger’s series doesn’t have me anxious or frustrated at all, however. I’m excited for this topic to be addressed. If, as a female, my role is different than I’d like it to be, I’ll be fine with that. To have clear direction on how to serve as a woman in Christ is all I care about, not my feelings. So, yes, great topic he’s tackling and grateful for it.

[@mariag4538]

As a fellow seminary student, I’ve had to (and continue to) struggle with this topic. In fact, I wrote a paper on it recently for one of my classes. I also love Mike Winger and I agree that philosophical arguments should not allow us to bypass God’s Word. However, God’s Word is not as clear on this subject as many of us would hope. While I think many egalitarians use philosophical arguments, I have not been convinced by complementarian arguments for the subordination of women in creation. You may want to read Lucy Peppiatt on this topic. She is a theologian from the UK and orthodox Christian. She does a great job going through Paul’s passages on women. You can also find several videos of her on YT. I hope you continue to update us on your journey!

[@susannef2614]

Thank you so much for mentioning Lucy Peppiatt. I have seen now a few of her videos - especially the interview with the essential church - and it was very helpful for me. So intelligent and she takes scripture seriously.

[@tam4givin]

I had not herd of Lucy Peppiatt. I am checking out her videos now. I am watching the video of the interview with her on women and worship at Corinthlike how she explained what a lot of people think the head covering means!

[@gamergeek8933]

Hopefully you continued watching mikes work. This video was just the opening to the study and he has gone very in depth on it. From what I have watched it seems like the majority of egalitarians books/views are based on older writings that when you get down to it are proven incorrect but keep being repeated.

[@jhails112]

​@susannef2614 yes Lucy!

[@jhails112]

Marge Mowczko is a good read.

[@Jessica-kp9hc]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I’ve found myself in the middle of the road on so many topics lately and I appreciate the videos both you and Mike release.

[@sonval3997]

I think that Mike Winger is one of the most theologically balanced christians. This is just my opinion. I've studied the Bible formally (giving details could sound pretentious) and his Bible studies and sermons are a great tool for any christian. I don't always agree with him but his doctrine is sound and his "thinking biblically" is something to be imitated. I don't know if you watched the fist 2 parts of his series. It doesn't seem like you did. To begin with, the main topic is not about women's ordination. I would recommend that you watch the full videos and then comment on them. God bless you Faith and continue to grow in Christ.

[@sierrarosethompson1053]

Hey 👋 would you mind listing the other two videos you are referring too? Thanks 😊

[@sierrarosethompson1053]

I’m looking at the video and it says part 1, he also says it’s the introduction so I’m curious what other 2 videos maybe lead up to this first one. Thanks 🙌

[@gordiegrout9770]

Glad you are in the middle because you'll lose friends if you pick a side? I understand ... but be careful; truth MUST NOT take a back seat to your desire to retain friends, supporters, etc. If ever you believe you have truth and must stand alone, DO IT (with a gracious, humble attitude, of course)! Because you are NOT alone -- you are honoring the One who deserves it and is the provider of all your needs. Be glad you stand where you do because you are faithful to study, discern, and follow truth, NOT because of anything else, such as retaining human support. Great discussion!

[@katherinebare8212]

As a woman who does not feel called to pastor or preach ( I have taught in children's ministry), this issue is a little less urgent for me than it is for some. I actually come biased towards complimentarianism, both because it is taught in my church and because I strongly associate egalitarianism with radical feminism, which I despise. Pastor Mike has already pointed out some things in his series that made me rethink my assumptions, so I think it is pretty balanced and valuable for people on both sides of the issue!

[@teachmywordministries277]

Pastor Cho of South Korea built a 500,000 member church. He said his biggest and most successful workers were the women, not the men. The women were instructed in theology and then sent out to evangelize, preach, and become pastors as they planted more churches in Korea and around the world. Think of the mighty works single missionary women have done! God's kingdom grew!! I haven't found a scripture in the Bible that says women are not called to the fivefold ministry. If God has called you, go. Do you fear man or God?

[@rjpfletcher]

The part where she mentions being shamed about asking questions frustrated me. Questions show 'you care to understand' something, rather than just going along with whatever is said. Questions help you grow and not remain stagnate. So, ask questions!!

[@AllGlorytoGod333]

I loved that you brought us along as you wrestle this topic out. Thank you for sharing with us!

[@HowtoFaithALife]

Thank you for your love and support, sweet friend!

[@samuelbilton9441]

He's not arguing that being of equal faith is new or not new to the Church. He's saying it's cleary taught in the Bible.

[@sarahsays194]

If you are willing to break off a friendship simply because the other person disagrees with you on a secondary or tertiary subject, you need to check yourself because that is pride and arrogance.

[@Thecurlyhairedrealtor]

Love you girl! You are called to do big things in this life! Praying over you and declaring the victory on your heart to preach among the nation!

[@janewhitely964]

It is so easy for men to say we are “equal in value”, when they don’t have restrictions put on them in the church. I wonder if they ever stop and listen to themselves and ever try to see a woman’s perspective and how she might feel of less value?

[@JustineCheri]

I have so much respect for KZbinrs who are willing to share a video of them going through a process instead of always having an answer for everything! Love your content and heart to seek truth :)

[@HowtoFaithALife]

Thank you. It's hard and scary. As you can see by the comments here, people get REAL fired up. I understand BOTH sides of the argument and WHY they get fired up. But, not everybody understands that so they will probably be irritated by me.... OH WELL. I am learning so much about how I've lived in this "fear of man" instead of fear (awe/respect)of God alone.

[@JustineCheri]

Omg girl - yes. The fear of man thing has been on my heart a ton recently. I hate to be this person, but I literally just did a video about this on my channel called “Christians, it’s time to speak up”!

[@HowtoFaithALife]

@@JustineCheri I have to check that out!

[@JustineCheri]

@@HowtoFaithALife Thanks! I actually wanted to reach out to you via email anyways about being on my podcast here in the next couple of months :)

[@caracomstock9039]

Thank you for making this video Faith! Your openness with your process to seek biblical understanding about Women in Ministry has really encouraged me as I seek it out. God’s using you in big ways more then you can see!!

[@christiancountryboyilovejesus]

I spread the gospel without being an ordained preacher or church elder. And you can too. God bless, Jesus is Lord! ❤❤❤

[@sarahnatalyaxo]

It's so great the way you constantly seek to learn. We should all be this way and through the Spirit working in us through our time in God's Word, hopefully we can get to a sense of confidence in what can be known for sure and find comfort in what is not explicitly stated too. Grace be with you! ❤

[@lesliecooper2261]

Mike is spot on. The Bible is clear on this issue. There is nothing wrong with questioning, as long as you hold the Bible as supreme truth. Pride has a way of taking hold, especially on this issue. This is a hill I will die on because the Word is clear. If a woman is leading and teaching men it’s against God’s design and NOT of God. Run…

[@susanbarackman-artist7670]

you better tell that to the underground church in iran which is led by women. OMG women telling men how to be saved??!?!?!---why didn't God choose a man ??? here is something to consider---pulpits, church buildings and even the bible were NOT part of the church from the beginning. church buildings came later, pulpits 400 years later and the early church had only OT law. BUT women were part of the church from the very beginning,=--teaching, preaching, dying for christ. something else to think about---women are lauded for going in the mission field or standing on a street corner preaching Christ--yet if they step inside the church and go stand in the pulpit to preach/teach the EXACT SAME MESSAGE---they are considered going out of God's will, rebellious, feminist, sinful, whatever....but if that church were to blow clean away in a tornado could that women go stand in the exact spot the church once stood and preach???? thnik about it!

[@rachelm9350]

I appreciate Mike, but I think he brushed aside the strongest arguments against complementarianism. I would just LOVE to see him attempt to debate NT Wright OR Melissa Scott. I don't think he will, and I doubt he could. He really paints the non-complementarians with a broad brush.

[@rickthestick6995]

Hi Faith. I'm someone who was raised Christian, was baptized but still left church when I was 18 and I'm now 37. Over the last 10 years the Holy Spirit has been slowly drawing me back in and then very fast the last 2-3 years. During these last few years I started really searching out a deeper connection to Gods word and that led me to coming across your channel as well as quite a few others (including Mike's). I just want to say that I've really learned a lot from you on studying the Bible. I may not get the most out of the arts and crafts style, but definitely the way you approach it with excitement and energy. Just wanted to let you know that, and that people who are passionate like you are awesome.

[@HowtoFaithALife]

Thank you! 🥲

[@aleguitarra]

You should not worry about "loose friends"... worry just for looking the truth...

[@kevindietrich3759]

I watched the whole video, and I have a couple of questions and a few thoughts, and what I say is not at all meant as a shot at you, but hopefully and encouragement and an exhortation. So what is the prescriptive role of Pastor/Elder, Deacon and Overseer according to 1 Timothy 3? Also, in 1 Timothy 2:12 and following, why is it that Paul would instruct a women not to teach or exercise authority over a man? You see, when you look at the text of Scripture and don't realize that it's pretty clear, and fail to look at the historical approach the Church has taken for thousands of years, you will fall into the trap of eisegesis. Do we really believe this issue hasn't come up since the Church was formed? Do we really believe our generation is the first to actually think this through? How prideful of us if so. However, if you believe in Sola Scriptura and Tota Scriptura, there is no way you can come to the conclusions you've come to about believing women are called to preach. I humbly submit to you, the reason this is such a battle for you is because your pride wont let you admit you are not called to preach, you haven't subjected your feelings to "preach the gospel to the nations" to what the Scriptures actually says about womens role in the church. You continue to search and search for different views other than what the bible says, and you find authors that agree with your view, and I believe you don't want to disobey God, so you are left conflicted, but honestly, you have the answer right in front of you from in the Holy Scriptures. If your husband is a pastor, the bible says you are called to support him in his calling as a minister of the Gospel. Women are to train younger women in Godliness, raise children to fear the Lord, and to submit to their husbands. There might be some nuance to those examples, but they must stay inside that framework, or they are in danger of being in sin. I know this might have been firm, but I'm certain the Lord wants His Church to operate under the authority of His Word, and we will be blessed to do so, God bless.

[@bytesizedbible]

I disagree and have just made a video to show your error. To be honest, the mainstream Egalitarian approach is worse than the complementarian one but both fail. Would love your feedback. It is 50 min but I had to show why both sides are incorrect to then show a better reading. Blessings!

[@elib9002]

A big issue with this is that of the preconceived ideas being brought. The healthiest way to take scripture would be to take everything in stride from start to finish. Because if it does not line up with what came before then it is wrong. God said this is how we test prophets. It is the same with the rest of the word and the spirits.

[@bytesizedbible]

I believe that both mainstream Egalitarian and Complementarian understandings are wrong. I have a video that argues that Paul was not restricting women from teaching men but rather a heresy that was threatening the early church. It will encourage women and make sense of a long disturbing passage of 1 Timothy 2v11-15.

[@thaddeusdoyle6170]

Excellent. I think part of the problem is that too many ministries have been handed over to the pastor/priest (and I am a priest). There should be a distinct and equally important role of evangelist. The woman at the well immediately became an evangelist to her town. Mary Magdalen was the first witness to the resurrection, and when Peter and John went back to where they were staying after seeing the empty tomb, Mary Magdalen stayed. Thus she became the first witness to the empty tomb and the first witness to the resurrection. I pray for the day when ladies with a passion to preach the Gospel will both have their education assisted and then the opportunity to full time ministry.

[@LyricandLetterLLC]

My wife Rebecca struggles with this question. Her first film even had a pastors wife in the middle of the struggle of her faith while losing her husband to cancer. Thank you for directly working out this subject.

[@cherismith5707]

I have so much respect for both you and for Mike, and for how much searching and consideration you have both done regarding this topic. I think for me (as a strong Christian woman who LOVES to teach and LOVES God's Word and LOVES to nurture others), I think where I've landed on this is that it's NOT about the teaching and the sharing of the Word, it's about being in a position of leading and shepherding MEN. Since no one seems to dispute that we can teach other women, and preach to other women, I really think it has to do with the "authority" status of a pastor over his flock. That seems to me to be the heart of the reason we are "limited" in that way, and I'm okay with that, it makes sense to me.

[@LilyGrace1990]

I think men fail to understand how complementarian rhetoric sounds to women. When you're in a position of freedom to do pretty much anything you want in ministry, it's easy to tell certain groups that they're not allowed to participate, even if you personally would rather they participate. Most of the men I personally know struggle with this because they do believe women are equal to men in value and even intellectually. But to women who hear this, it sounds more like "you aren't smart enough and your perspective isn't valuable enough to teach men." Now, of course, the bible doesn't support this view. If it did, Paul wouldn't have spoken so highly of Priscilla. But it still sounds that way. It still sounds like the bible doesn't think women can make decisions for themselves. It also often makes it sound like single women don't have much of a role in Christianity at all. As someone who seems to be called to singleness myself, I take issue with the idea that a woman can only be happy with a husband and kids! So what do we do with that? If there's a limitation to women's roles, how much is it really? And are we adding limitations that don't need to exist?

[@gospelfreak5828]

I’m in the middle right now too. I was leaning egalitarian due to one video explaining the New Testament passages. I’m trying to be open to change my mind with Mikes series since he covers both issues. But I don’t even know if I’ll be able to conclude a position from his videos. We’ll have to see. It depends on how well I think he represents the egalitarian view and how well he exegetes the passages in question. As a guy raised by my mom who was a youth pastor who got a lot of push back on what she felt her calling and as a guy who lives with feminist unbelievers and goes to a church where they are egalitarian on women in ministry I personally sympathize with the egalitarian position and if I’m really honest want it to be true. So I can empathize with your struggle as a guy as well, because I’ve seen how hurt my mom was. I just hope that when I do come to a position I’ll do it as unbiased as I can and with a surrendered heart to God

[@healingthroughchrist1988]

The context of the scriptures that people use to say women can't preach is actually referring to husband and wife. The Greek word that was translated as "woman/women" in the Bible can also mean wife. The Greek word that was translated as "man" can also mean husband. The very next verse after the Bible tells women to be silent in the church tells women to ask their husbands about the sermon at home (1 Corinthians 14:34-35). That verse was written at a time when men sat at the front of the congregation and women sat in the back. So she would have to yell across the room to ask her husband what the preacher said. I'm sure you can see how that will disrupt the sermon. The Bible never says women can't preach. In 1 Timothy 2:11-15, it's talking women being submissive to their husbands, and women are forbidden to have authority over a man because of Adam and Eve (the first married couple). If 1 Timothy 2:11-15 was talking about church leadership, there would be no need to mention Adam and Eve. The fact that this passage mentions Adam and Eve proves that it's talking about husband and wife, not church leadership. Biblical proof below: Greek words: Women - Strong's G1135 - gynē Men - Strong's G435 - anēr Scripture: [1Ti 2:11-15 NKJV] 11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. 15 Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control. [1Co 14:34-35 NKJV] 34 Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but [they are] to be submissive, as the law also says. 35 And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.

[@biblicalbee2082]

Evangelism is for all. Even complementarian women also participate in the great commission. Lets not conflate being an overser and evangelism. the argument i believe is for elders and pastoral positions not spreading the gospel.

[@nursingandnature]

thank you for the comments about the fact that some things are contextual and some things are timeless. It's so challenging to discern what truly belongs in each of those categories!

[@robertpreisser3547]

To the question of feeling less valuable if there really are roles that are not intended for women to perform, think about the Trinity: Does the fact that the Son submits to the Father, and the Spirit to the Father and Son, make any of them less valuable?

[@TheRyno525]

I don't understand how this is a debate 1 Timothy 2:11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women will be saved through childbearing-if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety. Pretty clear, people are free to ignore it or say it doesn't actually mean what it say's and if that is the case why stop there? just use verses you like and ignore one's you don't and write a your own bible so it will always say what we think it should say.

[@kortneyhepting5069]

If you could, please make more videos talking about women in the church & complementarianism and egalitarianism. You don't have to pick a side, but share the literature you are reading on both sides and other resources too.

[@tammyhenderson4565]

I have listened to Mike for about a year now and really enjoy him. I have been using his Evidence for the Bible Prophesy to send to loved ones that aren't sure if they believe or not. I am so thankful he did these 4/5 years ago. Your video must have popped up because I watch him. I had to watch your video to see what you were going to say!!

[@rebekahmackenzie]

Your story from college reminded me of the passage where is says we need to answer questions and/or correct IN LOVE. I would feel shamed too and I would be scared to ask more questions if I thought I would be lectured or attacked like that. The first church I went to growing up believed that baptized women had to wear head coverings when we prayed. I remember feeling nervous about stopping to wear one when we started attending a different church. But to be perfectly honest, I stopped wearing them not for honorable reasons. I was a teen when we attended the new one so of course I was self-conscious and none of the women there wore head coverings. I didn't want to be different so that's why I stopped. But know that I'm older and looked into it more I can be confident that I don't have to wear a head covering.

[@jesusonly2837]

Personally I stand with women should not be in the pulpit and use authority over men, But I believe we can teach women.

[@shawnarider916]

Kevin Rider - I believe it's a mischaracterization to use a picture of Mike WInger taken from his talk on 'Leaving an Abusive Spouse' and to present him in a 'huff' when someone disagrees - when he is so careful to be gracious with the words he speaks and his presentation of the biblical view to the best of his ability.

[@Rebncliff]

Thank you. I started watching him but didn't have the 6 hours haha...my dad was a minister he met my mom while she was "preaching" at a competition with all men....she won...and he then knew she was the one for him. I feel called also in certain ways...it's breaks my heart some beliefs truly say woman can't lead worship, preach etc..how can you be called but....not?

[@haachamachama7]

9:00 I like that Mike said he WANTED to be an egalitarian, but he ended up leaning more complementarian. It proves he's willing to do his research and pick the side he believes is more right rather than just fix himself on one side and remain steadfast and unmoving no matter what he hears. And he even speaks out against complementarians sometimes too in his recent videos lol. I just found Mike Winger recently but I love his videos, even though I don't agree with EVERYTHING he says, I line up with him on a lot of issues.

[@padillas4357]

I'm not sure if you read the comments in Mike's posts, but in case you don't..... Many of us on the Egalitarian side have never heard of the authors he is quoting, and we don't agree with them either. The sources he is using seem to be from a Liberal Feminist type of Christianity. Those of us who are from a Traditional Conservative type of Christianity see these video's he is doing as almost a straw man argument. I do appreciate his willingness to look into it, but certainly not impressed so far.

[@haachamachama7]

@@padillas4357 It's pretty presumptuous to assume he's making a strawman argument, I don't think he's using these sources intentionally. It seems he's primarily using debates between Egalitarian authors and Complementarian, and he seems to be equally critical of both sides... Not wanting to sound harsh but... aren't most egalitarian feminist liberal Christian types? lol, the belief is centered around "women are equal to men in all ways". Even if most of you aren't like that, it sure attracts that sort of Christian.

[@padillas4357]

@@haachamachama7 I'm not presuming anything. Mike even admitted in the comments section that the one female author, Aimee I think, is not an egalitarian. He used her because he felt that her views pushed in that direction, even though she says that she is a Complementarian. So far, I/ we don't know the authors he is using, and they do not represent what we believe. Also, no, most Egalitarians are not liberal feminists. I am a family man that is older than Pastor Mike, and was raised in an intact Conservative Christian family. My specific type of Christianity is Pentecostal and Messianic (Due to my Ethnic heritage).

[@haachamachama7]

@@padillas4357 ​ @Padillas I just saw him make a post on FB about an Egalitarian author he had originally discounted that he was going to follow up on in an upcoming video? But again, he did a lot of research, I think it's kinda disingenuous to just be like "he's making strawman arguments!" Is he not addressing any point egalitarians make? I mean, maybe you're not a feminist liberal sort. You're probably an outlier though, not the majority. Egalitarianism at it's core is a very feminist belief, that I personally believe goes against scripture. But I'm not here to debate that with you, I'm just saying, it IS appealing to that sort of person and the progressive types. Am I wrong? Do you think Liberal feminists would be complementarians?

[@padillas4357]

@@haachamachama7 Did you see what I said about his post in the comments about his admission? He did give the impression of a strange Complementarian being an Egalitarian. He literally admitted it in the comments section. I know he did a lot of reading, but our point on the Egalitarian side is that he is using sources that are from the Left, not what the majority of us actually believe. So no, I'm not being disingenuous. There are several of us in the comments section trying to point out that this is a biased and skewed discussion.... and we are not outliers. Here is a post from "First Church of God" that sums it up quite well. : "The problem is that these videos are conflating women in ministry arguments with liberalism (usually of the political variety). However, for those of growing up in Anabaptistic and Holiness churches that is laughable. When you add Pentecostal and Charismatic churches to the mix you find arguments that appear quite different. For example, I have known plenty of women pastors, some in sizable congregations, who don't have a problem submitting to their husbands in the context of marriage. There are plenty of scholars in the Assembly of God, the Church of God (Anderson), the Nazarene Church, the Wesleyan Church, and other holiness and Pentecostal churches that are never mentioned here. One of the foremost NT scholars in the world, Ben Witherington from Asbury, has spoken a great deal on this subject. Also N.T. Wright, who many even in the Evangelical world would call the world's foremost scholar on Paul, has spoken and written on the women in ministry issue." I would add a few other Denominations/ Fellowships by name, but that would belabor the point. When it comes to the Liberal Feminist point of view entering the church; it is basically the same age as Calvary Chapel itself. Both the Cavalry Chapel Fellowship (Denomination) and the Liberal Feminist movement have been created by the Baby Boomer Generation. Prior to the Charismatic Calvary Chapel Fellowship's arrival (Pastor Chuck was saved and started his ministry in the Four Square church; which is Pentecostal and was founded and lead by a Women. He later switched to being a Charismatic, and then split off to create Calvary Chapel.) the so called Complementarian view was held by the Calvinistic Christians and the Catholics, and the so called Egalitarians are the ones that have been previously mentioned (Plus a few more). As to if Egalitarianism would appeal to a Liberal Feminist, of course it would; just as Complementarianism appeals to Male Chauvinist Authoritarianists. The question is which view is Biblical; Restrictions or No restrictions for Women? It is my/ our reading of the whole Bible that leads us to the position of No restrictions.

[@JordanSkinner314]

I don't think it is ever possible to come to the bible without HAVING preconceived notions. The way we learn is inherently based in taking the pieces of knowledge we already have, combining them with new pieces of knowledge, and forming a larger but still incomplete understanding. However I think it is possible to ACKNOWLEDGE those biases and check them against scripture, holding them with open hands in the realization that God has the right to convince us otherwise on things we may presently agree with.

[@HowtoFaithALife]

Exactly! Yes and Yes! Thanks for adding that!

[@danidillaha1535]

Wow that’s something I never really put much thought into I just was told at a young age women shouldn’t be pastors but we can have many other roles in the church like leading Bible studies and teaching classes just not the head of the Church. I’m really open to either way after listening to this. It makes think a lot about Emotional Intelligence (I just did a presentation on this at work for Women in Leadership) and how that could play into the role of leading a church. It’s a very difficult topic thank you! I’m excited to dig more into this

[@louisesnook4078]

10:40 I’m not sure why you are cynical about Mike’s statements in this video about women being equal in value. I didn’t think it came across as an attempt at “bypassing the Bible.” He wasn’t referring to the equality of men and women as a forgotten tenet of early church tradition - he’s making his case from Genesis 1&2. That the pre-fall status of woman was equal to that of Adam in value, but different in role. His whole ministry is about thinking Biblically, which implies searching scripture itself for truth and not necessarily tracing the evolution of thought and practice through church history. I guess this becomes more clear in his next video in the series, where he looks at Eden and the change in relationship dynamics between men and women as a result of the fall.

[@malcolmhayes9201]

Honestly I love this! The Bible tells us to hold fast to what is true and to see such passionate followers of Christ really being genuine on why they believe what they believe from the Bible is so admirable! I’ve been having some doubts about Christianity and if it holds up historically but every time I doubt I find answers that strengthen my faith even more! Questions like did Abraham exist, did god create matter from nothing, can people still speak in tongues, can women minister and preach the gospels, etc. are all true knowing that the evidence for Jesus life, death, resurrection are all true historically proves all the Bible to be true! Justifying my faith, along with everyone else’s :) side issues or not I just wanted to say that I hope you all are blessed and continue loving Jesus as he has to you.

[@HowtoFaithALife]

Since this video I have learned a lot and actually filmed an update, which you can find here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fnuuoqeIgpKDY9k

[@azraellordluciferavontehop1650]

Did God killed himself I am what I am. I'm the beginning and then end. (Death 1). I am the alpha and Omega second death. Jesus died on the cross (death number one) Jesus was also alpha Omega the end. It's in every Bible look it up. For it was written, Amen.?

[@ilovekene9697]

@@azraellordluciferavontehop1650 what do you mean?

[@azraellordluciferavontehop1650]

Jesus didn't sweat blood it was his head in future with the crown of thorns

[@azraellordluciferavontehop1650]

Jesus didn't sweat blood it was his head in future with the crown of thorns

[@velociray]

@@azraellordluciferavontehop1650 uhm.... what? Your sentences didn't make sense.

[@SamanthaH]

We are all in ministry if your in CHRIST. Preaching and teaching is not the same as holding the leadership role as a pastor/elder over the church, especially over other men. We know we’re not less valuable because the Lord is clear in scripture that we have a beautiful role.

[@chadcarter8242]

Sam you took the words from me. I was just going to leave a comment and you said it PERFECTLY

[@SamanthaH]

@@chadcarter8242 thank you. Glory to God!

[@amandapanda316]

I'd love to hear your response when his series is over!

[@s.annehancock730]

Faith, don’t let anyone shame you. Jesus loved, honored and elevated women. Beth Allison Barr’s book, The Making of Biblical Womanhood is such a great place to start. Also Lucy Peppiatt’s Rediscovering Scripture’s Vision for Woman. Those controversial passages from Paul must be read in context and alongside all the scriptures where Paul acknowledges female prophets, deacons, leaders, benefactors, evangelists. Our risen Jesus didn’t appear first to a woman by accident. Have so much fun on this adventure Faith!

[@HowtoFaithALife]

Thank you for taking the time to type that kind comment!

[@sheliaporter6795]

Thank you for this video! I have never heard Mike Winger before, but enjoyed hearing his take on this subject. I come from a charismatic demonation and was nondenominational for a while. Some of the best preachers I know are women, but I still struggle with this! I enjoyed this video and thank you again! Blessings!

[@HowtoFaithALife]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@nelyspeech]

This is the first video I'm watching from your channel so thank you for the intro on your life!

[@HowtoFaithALife]

Thanks for watching!

[@chriscoon801]

I just found your channel today. Loved this! Loved your honesty and willingness to be open-eyed to see the other side and then discern from there. I largely agree with Mike Winger's views but I appreciate the fact that I don't have to and am still considered a sister in Christ.

[@almaflores4410]

I just started watching this series last night. I'm very intrigued by this topic because I come from a church which ordains women to be a deaconess, pastor, co-pastors... My sister is ordained and supports the pastor in teaching, organizing, visiting.... only preaches once in a while when pastor is gone. But our brother who stayed in the church we were brought up in, has often expressed his opposition to a women preaching. So I'm interested in knowing what the bible says about it all. I like Mike's approach to controversial topics. He does his homework.

[@apryl9221]

I feel as if you know the answer is no, but are waiting on it to change to a yes. I pray that you receive clarity on this issue you're facing and that you are content in the reach and the teaching you do provide. Sometimes we get so wrapped up in what we want that then we pretend we must interpret the Bible, or study time periods, when we know the answer. Sometimes our struggle is not in finding the answer, but in accepting the answer that GOD has already given. There are many great women who are teachers and guides for their families, the youth, and other women. In todays world women are made to feel that they aren't valued if they aren't allowed to do what men do. And the progress to include women in all things that were not available to them at one point has caused us as women to sometimes overstep roles and boundaries, and under appreciate or criticize the performance of men. Comparing ourselves to them and saying how things could be managed differently our better under our direction. As women living with all the messages flooding us today, we need to remember that we are not "less than", our roles are just different. We have different assignments. I believe that the Bible is clear on this matter, but I also believe that you can still make a great impact, as we can all see that you want to. I pray you find peace in your coming to GODs answer for you.

[@juliagiroux1807]

There is never ever harm in questioning and digging deeper to better understand God. In fact, he encourages us to do so. Reading scripture contextually and with a critical lense is so important and how we grow in a deeper understanding of God. In my opinion, it is dangerous to accept things at face value

[@apryl9221]

@@juliagiroux1807 while I believe that digging deeper is a way for us to get closer to GOD. Some scripture is just as simple as it's face value. I find it dangerous to try to contort those simple face value things to try to explain away certain choices or get our way as guilt free as possible. Some things don't require a deep dive or in depth analysis, and doing so could lead to the changing of the word of GOD.

[@aliciamcdonald7105]

@@juliagiroux1807 AMEN, AMEN and AMEN!

[@christinegeary4877]

I think this debate finds its source all the way back in the garden when God told Eve her desire would be for her husband but he would rule over her (Genesis 3). Men are given as the head of the wife and by extension, the family (Ephesians 5) and as the church is the family of God, men are to be the head of that family. 1 Timothy 2 & 1 Corinthians 14 should be considered. Nowhere does any of this negate women teaching with authority over other women and children (see 2 Timothy 1). In Titus 2 a teaching role for women is clearly delineated. Nor does this preclude a role for women on the mission field. All this is gleaned from Scripture alone. I think confusion and debate arise when we get off in the weeds of books that are not the Bible, which contain the ideas and musings of mortal men. I am not seminary trained and therefore considered “uneducated” but for me verses from Hebrews validate my position that Scripture alone is enough to arrive at conclusions (Hebrews 1:1-2; 2:1). And what is the purpose of ordination? Why do women seek it so vehemently? To “prove” they’re equal to men? If married, should that woman seek to rule over her husband in this area? If single, is not Christ her husband? Should she rule over Him? (To quote Paul, “May it never be!”). In the eyes of God women ARE equal with men; they have been given different roles. Desiring worldly validation of equality is just that, a worldly desire. I know my own “musings” here will not settle this debate but I thought they might bring a “simpler” POV to consider.

[@aliciamcdonald7105]

@@christinegeary4877 It is IMPERATIVE whenever we wish to DISCUSS or COMMENT on these types of topics to GO BACK TO THE BEGINNING. Now in the beginning God made both MALE and FEMALE human beings in HIS likeness and Image. BOTH male and female were called MAN. In response to Eve's part in eating of the forbidden fruit, God decreed that "....and thy desire shall be to thy husband and HE SHALL RULE OVER YOU. Now every thing God spoke against ADAM, EVE and the serpent DID NOT EXIST BEFORE! What he decreed against them was a result of THEIR ACTIONS against him. From this we can determine that 1. God created both male and female equal 2. Neither had rule over the other. 3 What was decreed was never what GOD intended from the beginning. If we read the creation properly that is with a sense of hermeneutics we will understand that God saying that something SHALL happen is not the same as saying what SHOULD happen as in the sense of right or wrong and in which Eve, Adam or the serpent had a choice. The word SHALL here means how things WILL BE from then on. Now let us read that piece again "....and thy desire shall be to thy husband and HE SHALL RULE OVER YOU. Note WELL that it was ADAM who will rule over EVE and not EVERY WOMAN just as Eve was not to be ruled over by EVERY MAN. It is PAUL who said that HE (Paul) does not permit a woman to teach. 2 Tim. 2:12 NOT GOD “But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over THE man" (not A man). When Christ came he came as a Jew under the Jewish system and followed JUDAISM to a tee. Hence the reason he waited until he was 30 years before he began his ministry, circumcised, kept Passover etc. And He did NOT come to fix the ills of society or the injustices of the day, indeed he did not even express disapproval of the occupying Romans. That was NOT his ROLE. He came to do exactly what his Father sent him to do. Slavery existed way back then but Christ never addressed this yet surely no BLACK person would ever cite this as a reason why we should not oppose slavery today. Christ did not chose any FEMALE disciples because he was not here to MAKE a statement on EQUAL rights AND in JUDAISM women NEVER served as PRIESTS . Again this should not be used to support the position that women should not be LEADERS or PASTORS today. What occurred BEFORE the Holy Spirit descended upon ALL BELIEVERS (men and women) has NOTHING to do with the Church today. As for what Paul said, I say it is what PAUL SAID. Paul was and IS NOT GOD. Sooo many people, especially men quote Paul's writings as to suggest that this is what God intended and approved, which is DEAD WRONG. Pastoring is a gift of the HOLY SPIRIT of God and the Spirit of God DOES NOT DISCRIMINATE according to GENDER. In her book entitled THE GOSPEL CENTERED WOMAN Wendy Alsup advises the reader when quoting the Apostle Paul to not to confuse instruction with LAW. This is what MANY people have done and continue to do- take Paul's writings and make them LAW and in so doing have WRONGLY divided the word and are being deceived while deceiving others. God had Deborah as a judge over ALL of Israel and she was also a prophetess whom he SPOKE to and to whom ALL of Israel looked for answers from Him. So clearly this position of women not being able to be in authority is NOT God’s position but MAN’s own. The MAN in this case is PAUL. Until ‘church people’ start to get to KNOW and UNDERSTAND their Creator and allow HIS Spirit to be their PRIMARY teacher and not MAN, then we will continue to have every denomination having their OWN BELIEFS on these issues, ALL quoting scriptures, ALL led by 'men of God', ALL saying that they are correct which CANNOT BE while Christendom remains as it is.... in a HOT MESS!!

[@aprilpatton4072]

Faith! I love this video! Wow! I came to faith in a baptist church when I was 12. I started dating my husband less than a year later. We grew up together and were “complementarian” without knowing it lol. We only knew what we were taught in the church. Then he joined the army and we began moving around and our eyes were opened. We realized there was a lot more gray area for a lot of these discussions and honestly I was pastored by a woman leading the women’s ministry who preached, not teaching, preaching. And she was such a role-model and mentor for me! Over time my husband began subscribing to “egalitarianism” and I was still hesitant. His arguments made more sense to me (from scripture) than our previously held beliefs did. I’m still technically on the fence, but definitely lean closer to egalitarian than complementarian. I know how divisive this discussion can get… kudos to you for having the conversation!!! Especially considering that you and your family are actively serving in a denomination that holds firm to not ordaining women. I appreciate you and your channel!!! 🤍

[@HowtoFaithALife]

Thank you! I’m so glad I’m not alone in struggling through the questions!!!

[@brotherpax1353]

hey Faith, loved the video and your insight yo both sides of the argument. one thought i had while watching was that you said you like that Mike wasn’t going to allow culture to influence or alter scripture. however, earlier in the video you said that since culture allows women to be ordained you know that you should follow that calling. would that not be allowing culture to influence scripture and what it allows?

[@camirichardson7485]

I believe what the apostle Paul was stating is that women should not have authority over men. He didn't say, he would not allow a woman to be a pastor or not allow a woman to be ordained to ministry. Women can be involved in all kinds of functions of ministry in the church but that the role of juridical authority or of governing authority over men is not to be held by women.( I'm not too fond of living in the middle or the gray areas. So I try my best to find answers to perplexing questions all the while knowing I could be wrong.

[@TweetsyCk]

I appreciate your openness & realistic state of your faith walk

[@Christina4JesusChrist]

I love your humility in this response - I agree with Mike that women are not to be pastors, but women still need to lead by example, know the word and educate themselves so that they are strong in their faith and knowledge of the word. Women were not to speak in the church but it was a cultural rule (migh tnot be the right word but Mike Winger explains it better than me) and I am very traditional despite only being saved for almost a year. I am still going to go into seminary so that I can continue showing the love of God through my writing and how I live. And I can say that I don't feel any less becuase I am a woman and he is a man, it might be a personal thing but we have differetn roles and women are important! a good video to check out is spencer smiths devine feminin to show how importatn women truly are depsite havign different roles

[@paden5137]

Thank God for bringing me here to you. Thank you for being you. I am a baby believer and I have been enjoying Mike Winger but I really wanted a female perspective. I feel very comfortable around you, thank God, and I love your work. From a brother in Christ to a sister in Christ. God bless you

[@HowtoFaithALife]

Wonderful! Praise the Lord! Welcome to the family here!

[@charleschi843]

11:02 This statement is a common thought regarding complementarian theology. Women and men both have a hard time being told that they can not do something that other sex can. Usually, women raise their voices the loudest. There are many things that men can not do that women can do. Equally, there are many things that women can not do that men can do. The only thing that complementarian theology is against: Passive men not spiritually leading at home and in the church. The sole punching bag, lightning rod and bearer of stress in the pastoral position of the church should not be a women. Complementaraian theology protects women, it works parallel with the Gospel and it exemplifies the roles of our Trinitarian God. Go preach the Gospel to the nations, just respect the value of the weekly assembly and the ordained position of shepherd in the local church. Your channel is a perfect way of reaching the nations from the comfort of your office. Thankful for you.

[@rmac2489]

Excellent video! I did watch Mike’s video too which I also felt was well done. I have had the pleasure of knowing and being taught by women who know the Bible as well as and even better than any man I have heard preach and/or discuss the Bible. I do think a man needs to be the head of a church - I think that honours God and it is good for men to be in leadership roles. But I also believe God made women and men different for a reason and excluding women from functions within the church really handicaps a congregation. With so much of the awful things that I am seeing going on within the Church in North America I can’t help but feel we would be better off as a body if we weren’t ignoring at least 50% of the whole. I will keep watching with great interest! Thank you again for a great video 😊

[@elliesilva1907]

This was a very well done video. It is imperative that we do as the woman at the well. The world is perishing and it needs our testimonies “Many of the Samaritans from that town believed in him because of the woman’s testimony” vs 39

[@rachelpalmer5185]

Wow! Thank you for such a honest discussion on this topic! I came kind of where you come from that I grew up in “woman can’t preach or lead worship, etc.” and I love that your discussion isn’t really biased. Because it’s always been difficult for me to deal with whether I’m called to something or not and whether I can biblically do something because I’m a woman. It has always seemed strictly one way and I’m glad you touched on this topic! Much love faith!

[@ilovekene9697]

I would say I'm egalitarian but it is really a secondary issue. I'm sorry you feel this way, Faith. I want to say that you should preach but that doesn't come from God, that comes from me. I have been touched by many women and my only role models and prachers since childhood is and has always been women. Thank you. We love you so much anyway, Faith!!

[@aprilfurcean8302]

That’s ridiculous! I can’t believe they told you not to ask questions. 😞Asking questions and finding answers is what strengthens your faith and helps us know what we believe. Questions are good!

[@openlybookish]

I agree questions are good. It makes me ill thinking they were silencing you Faith. The whole point of education is asking questions to help us learn.

[@micpoll7]

I love your heart, I am in the same place as you. I too, as a lay person, have been studying this for the last 10 years. Thank you for giving honest commentary. I am watching the rest of the videos, realizing I still might not come to a full conclusion. 🙃

[@ch1-thevideopodcastingn226]

First time seeing your channel. Now a new sub! I enjoyed Pastor Mikes’ video as well. Looking forward to where he is going.

[@HowtoFaithALife]

Welcome to the family here!

[@katerinavaillancourt3930]

Hey! If you say your called to “preach the Gospel to every nation” like me then that’s evangelism! Preach means proclaim and all over the Bible women CAN proclaim and talk about the gospel and evangelism. While teaching and mostly “having authority” over men and is not Christ like because the Holy Spirit won’t move through a woman preacher just because of the different roles. As a pastors wife myself there are SO MANY roles a woman can do! From administration, helping plant a church, teaching and leading and having pastorship over woman and children(not men). To helps, worship, prophecy etc! From my experience and going to many different churches there are never enough women leaders to other women and as a female leader you can provide so much to the woman that are lacking from male leaders. My husband as a Pastor meets with many men one-on one but he does not do that to women. I fill in those gaps and Lead the woman and provide discipleship. And being “silent” does not mean that you cannot talk in church. Or in a small Bible study or even a large Bible study group with men mixed. It just means providing a type of authority over men. I just focus on women more and trust me that’s more than enough. When I’m out of country or in the role of evangelism then I do preach the gospel and share my testimony like the woman at the well! Keep going sister!!

[@honestchristianity936]

Great approach Faith. I’m egalitarian and I want women to take a really good study of the Bible on this issue. I think when you do that well you’ll come out the other side in great confidence that God affords you the same ministerial opportunities as men. Great influences for me on this topic are Ben Witherington 3, John G Stackhouse, NT Wright

[@DrDoerk]

Men and Women are equally created I God's image, but they do have different roles in the house and in the church.

[@honestchristianity936]

@@DrDoerk how confident are you in % terms of that assertion?

[@DrDoerk]

@@honestchristianity936 pretty confident.

[@DrDoerk]

@@honestchristianity936 God made male and female in his image, so they are equal. But God has different roles for males and females. God made man the head of the house, as Christ is the head of the church. He also created Eve from Adam to be Adam's helper. (Being a helper isn't a bad thing, after all God is our helper). The Bible also tells us that because of the fall, woman would long for her husband's position. I believe this directly lines up with what egalitarians are pushing for

[@DrDoerk]

@@honestchristianity936 proverbs 31 tells us what a Godly woman should be like. The different roles she should fill are not the same as her husband. Ephesians 5 shows us the different roles a man and wife should have within their Godly marriage. Husbands represent Jesus and wives represent the Church. There are 2 different roles. (I am not saying a husband is more important, infact I believe wives have the harder role within the marriage) I'm just saying there are most definitely different roles.

[@notmyrealname2592]

Tysm for this video. I am a woman and also on the fence with this issue as well. What keeps me on the fence is the work of work of Elizabeth Elliott and Rachael Saint. It’s hard to believe that God would consider what they did sinful. Their story is unbelievable! What do u think about their work?

[@ethanweber7976]

I don't believe that most complementarians believe that their work was sinful at all. I know that my mom (who is an absolutely wonderful Christian lady) strongly believes in biblical roles, and she absolutely loves Elizabeth Elliot.

[@thewoolpack]

I'm in the middle on this issue at the moment too. I like how Mike is slowly taking his time through this topic, so we can have time to really digest each video and the points he shares.

[@angelas9403]

Faith, I totally enjoyed your video. I haven't ever heard of complimentarian vs. Egalitarian views if I've even said that right. 🙂 I appreciate your vulnerability and honesty. I actually listened to this twice as I have recently been questioning what I really believe about this topic as well. I've always been told women are not to preach due to various scriptures, including those regarding the requirements of being a pastor/bishop(?), being the husband of one wife, etc. Love learning more! Thank you!

[@HowtoFaithALife]

I’m so glad this was helpful!

[@allieoneal2033]

After I'd watched every one of Pastor Mike's videos in this series so far, KZbin recommended your more recent video to me where you share your conclusion to this question. That was my introduction to you, and I've been really enjoying your videos for the last couple of weeks. (Although your merch store is not working for me at the moment, yipes!) So, I just wanted to share what I've been learning from his videos. I've always been complementarian, but was unsatisfied by how random some of the rules seemed. Like, at a certain age, moms shouldn't discipline their male children? So when we found ourselves in a new church that has a more open view of gender roles, it's really had me thinking and reading. I'm a teacher by inclination and education, and that all started in church when I was a young teen, helping in preschool classes and helping lead children's music and drama. The way our churches have always been structured has left me in that same kind of spot my whole life: teaching young kids and participating in music. But, in the last month, I've not only had the opportunity to lead the music in worship (something I've never been allowed to do before), but even to substitute teach for the MIXED adult Sunday School class. With the encouragement of both my husband and pastor, I felt the responsibility of preparing and teaching a lesson. It was an amazing experience to delve into a topic of scripture and lay it out in a practical way for my classmates. Thanks to several positive comments, I realized that I have not been using my gift of teaching enough. Though I anticipate that, going forward, most of the opportunities I'm going to have will be to teach women and children, I really treasure the experience. I have been leaning on the comfortable position as church musician, but now I see a way to stretch myself and grow. I think both you and Mike are a part of inspiring that.