Why A Megachurch Pastor Would Leave His Faith

[@lorendjones]

After a moral failure by a high visibility minister that my mother followed and supported, I asked her for her thoughts. Her response was simple: “If you’re following a man, your gaze is focused much too low.”

[@shawnboahene5231]

A wise woman

[@LeahMarshals22]

Exactly! Why people watch when you could get the best examples from above?

[@sandravarrenti927]

Your mother is a very wise woman.

[@youknowitstrue3826]

@lorendjones What the alternative according to you?

[@janataylor2721]

Very wise woman!!!

[@karricompton]

I’ve experienced church hurt and know many others who have, but I’m never leaving Jesus. He will never leave me. He has done so much for me. How could I ever doubt Him?

[@Vanessa-mv7xm]

I have too have been hurt by people who proclaim to be the church, but I could never leave the only one who really L❤ves me unconditional... Jesus ...Praise his Holy name Amen.

[@ingela_injeela]

​@@Vanessa-mv7xmAmen sister. People *will* fail us, just as we may fail others at times. But Jesus is our *rock* .

[@epicofatrahasis3775]

It's so weird listening to religious people sometimes. How does Jesus help you? Have you seen him, heard him, had a two-way conversation with him? Has he been there to physically look after you or care for you when you're sick or down, like a friend or family member? It seems like you are enamoured with a character in a book.

[@ingela_injeela]

@@epicofatrahasis3775 I get that it would seem that way, when you don't know him. But this historic "character" actually walked this earth, and while dying an excruciating death, he forgave his enemies. And on the third day he rose from the dead! And he is alive and kicking today - the tomb is empty. This event totally changed the lives of his disciples. At Jesus' arrest they all ran away scared. But after Jesus' resurrection, and after the Holy Spirit was given to them, they went boldly out into the world, preaching the Good News of salvation in Jesus. All of them ended up being martyrs for the fait - not backing down even in the face of torture and death. Jesus teaching is amazing enough. But he did so much more than teaching "love your neighbour as yourself". Through him we can be born again, and have a new life, that starts *today* and (never) ends in eternity. Walking with Jesus, talking to Him, getting to know him more and more, has been, and is, the greatest adventure of my life. If it weren't for him, I may not even have been alive today. He is lovely, and knowing him just gets more amazing with time.

[@thethinking-agnostic7130]

@@ingela_injeela How do you know what Jesus really taught and said in his days if we don’t have any of his original writings and the originals of the books that were later selected by a fallible human being and later canonised in the Christians Bible?

[@triciawoodward5215]

This story is fascinating and heartbreaking. I grew up in a "Christian" family that was VERY broken, there was physical and verbal abuse (which I bore the brunt of), though at church Sunday morning and evening, mid-week, dad was an elder, mom was in the choir, we hosted a home group...yet the family was a MESS. When I was in my early teens, the church went through a massive split which caused many to walk away from the church completely. But thankfully, my belief in Jesus never wavered. I question Him a lot about the various disasters that have come into my life, but while life has been frustrating, I haven't walked away from Him! I pray that others will hold onto the Lord and "praise Him in the storm!"

[@judeliemagsayo642]

Praise God for your faith.

[@mikem4883]

Your faith is wonderful. You never walked away from Him because He never walked away from you. You are kept by the power of God.

[@triciawoodward5215]

Amen to that!@@mikem4883

[@melinalim-pm8uh]

Stay firm When Satan 'betted' with God about Job, Job never knew about it But GOD had more confidence in Job than Job had in himself. HE trusted Job to keep faith in HIM. U never know... maybe u are one of those whom GOD knows will beat the devil for HIM. Stay strong and courageous. HE will not abandon u

[@JessiTuck]

This is almost word for word what it was like for me!! Mankind failed Christianity around me, but reading the Bible, Good never failed Mankind, do it made the commitment to folklore Him, not them.

[@bunnyboonot4u]

I was emotionally and mentally abused by my grandmother. At church on Sunday she would smile at me and act like she loved me. As soon as we walked to through the parking lot after church was over, she was so cold emotionally towards me. I loved her, but felt no love in return from her. I remember not liking this and i rebelled. I was 17 and i used to say, "if that hypocrite (my grandmother) is going to go to Heaven, i don't want to be there." I hated her for acting nice to me in church and then being cold and mean the rest of the time. She lived with the family when my mum was unwell (she had an emotional break💔) I'm still working on forgiving her. I rebelled, and i made a disaster out of my life. Last year i came back to Jesus. I have my own personal relationship with Him now. I trust only Him. People always let me down, but i know Jesus will always love me and He will never let me down! ✝️🕊️

[@marisamartin3664]

About the same experience

[@r.walker7986]

Everyone should have personal relationships with God, that's the way its supposed to be but Church is a business and convinces everyone they are the gatekeepers and they are not, and they put their own spin on everything to keep that power and place in people's lives. nothing wrong with church in general but choose wisely..

[@762N8O]

Kind of the same situation but with my parents. And I was witness to what a perfect relationship is. And one thing I learned is, they wont be better parents but I can always be a better son. Get better not bitter. It had a purpose

[@GrannyDi276]

Praise God you've come back❤❤❤

[@ktermalkut8332]

dead religions of all kinds are of satan including all types of christianity though people because of their heart seeking The LORD can encounter The LORD GOD in such places. OBEY THE LORD GOD and to seek a PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP with HIM as HE Wills where they know HIM as their ONLY Teacher and Father - Matthew 23:8-10, John 17. Then they can ask The LORD GOD anything and will have ACCESS TO THE MIND OF CHRIST. You do not have to argue and convince such a person that satan is talking to them when they want to, for example, deviate sexually. The PAGAN sun god worship religion of pagan rome is in ALL christianity. This is the spirit that is behind sexual perversion as you will find that the male and female genitalia form a central place in the worship of pagan gods.The phallc symbol in roman catholicism and the lingam and the noni in hiduism. Worse still 99.9999% of western christians are NOT IN THE BODY OF CHRIST because The LORD JESUS Who is The HOLY SPIRIT - John 14:20 does not live IN them. Read Romans 8:9-11. The ONLY EVIDENCE of The Infilling of The HOLY SPIRIT is the INITIAL speaking in Tongues (this is not the Gift of Tongues or interpretation of Tongues). Read Acts 2:36-39, 10:44-48, 19:1-6. They use human reasoning to explain spiritual issues which is FORBIDDEN - Romans 9:5-9.

[@markb.8756]

It's hard not to let the failures and misgivings of other Christians impact our faith. But never once did Jesus or Paul implore us to validate the Cross via human behavior. Jesus said "follow me," not "follow spiritual leaders." We validate our faith via the Word, not via other followers.

[@JuliusKwedhionMarriage]

Amen!

[@OlgaSmirnova1]

If they depart from us, they were never from us. Nothing to see here.

[@Lizjemej]

Oh yes!! well said.

[@ambivertical]

@@OlgaSmirnova1christians Can leave the faith. Free will is Real.

[@OlgaSmirnova1]

@@ambivertical good “luck” with free will 😊 who leaves the faith is no Christian and is bound to hell and it’s the will of God not “ free will”

[@heathoneal6987]

The biggest problem with Tim is that he had his eyes on man and not on Jesus. I grew up in church and I’ve seen all kinds of hypocrisy. Sexual immorality on all levels, Lying pastors, preachers, Church hurt, and unforgiveness from leaders and pastors. I don’t put my trust and faith in any man. My trust and faith are completely in Jesus. It hasn’t been an easy road. I’ve given up on myself several times. But never in Jesus. Especially someone who should know Gods Word should know how to manage his faith between man and God.

[@charlieshammer6129]

He is our only hope brother...

[@chamberlineowen2814]

Christ is the ONE to whom we build our hopes and entire being in. We must be centred in Him ,otherwise we are prone to destruction

[@Defeat_MAGA]

"The biggest problem with Tim is that he had his eyes on man and not on Jesus." Really? You can put your eyes on a make-believe character? Please share how I can "see" this person who never existed.

[@zephyr-117sdropzone8]

@@Defeat_MAGA Jesus existed. He has earlier and better attestation to his existence (for a mere peasant in the backwaters of the Roman Empire) than multiple Roman Emperors, Pontius Pilate (most powerful man in the region at the time), and Alexander the Great (who didn't get anything even close to a biography until 300 years after his death. Jesus? 40 years max). There is not a single professor or scholar of New Testament, textual criticism, history, classics, etc. in the Western World who claims Jesus did not exist. Not one. Jesus is continually met and seen in NDEs, which continue to build steam as the final blow on materialism. An entire section of Psychology has recently been developed on Christic Visions (of which my grandfather and uncle both experienced, meeting a physical Jesus who accurately predicted the future), where people all over the world, especially Muslims and Hindus and others living in hostile countries where they never heard of Jesus or Christianity, meet Jesus. He preaches the Gospel, teaches them, talks with them, etc. In fact, it's been estimated 50-80% of new Christian converts in Middle Eastern muslim countries (where it is a crime to not worship Allah) did so not because of missionaries, but by meeting the Man in White.

[@pattyblevins2765]

Neville Johnson prayed and prayed until Jesus appeared in his room. Neville prayed a lot. He said in five minutes of praying he would be feeling God’s Presence. Prayer makes a portal to heaven that goes with you wherever you go. His videos are still on KZbin. He went home to heaven about three years ago.

[@JaneHill-i7t]

This is common to many of us. I've been a Christian for 44 years and experienced similar things to this ex-pastor, such as finding non-Christians treated me better than Christians, and hearing discrepancies from the pulpit (things not lining up with the Bible), Christians and church leaders not living up to their faith. However, I always knew that God wasn't the problem, people are, including me. It reinforces that we must work on our own relationship with the Lord and that will help us to deal with people.

[@mariobethell3731]

Just think about it, if faith and belief were so reliable, there would be a knowledge of one true religion and one true God only, just like there is a knowledge of one sun in the sky only. But there are many religions all believing by faith in the many Gods which the believers all have so creatively imagined to exist.

[@jasonsoulie1337]

​@@mariobethell3731There are those of us who have experienced and do have A relationship with this one true creator is one true religion. Whenever seasons to amaze me It's how blind people can really be that they can't see it around them everywhere

[@joshuabartlett3589]

​​@mariobethell3731 That religion exists, we understand it as the state and society. The Bible is much different The state uses laws to subject people. The laws of God in the bible existed for other purposes.

[@marydiggins9294]

Yess!!

[@mariobethell3731]

@@joshuabartlett3589 If Christians were to study their Bible, they would see the same atrocities are condoned by the holy prophets inspired by God. For example .... Numbers 31:17-18 17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. 18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. Samuel 15:2-3 2 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. 3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. Psalm 137:8-9 8 O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. 9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones. Therefore l say, before any religious dogma is taught to children, critical thinking should be learned so that the students won't fall prey to any indoctrination of any kind, whatsoever!!

[@bobboardman1156]

Being in ministry is very tough. When I trained as a Baptist pastor (3 years with theology degree) I remember being told that that most of us would be out of ministry within five years. After six years as an elder I became an assistant pastor and I lasted about a year (after the senior pastor was forced out in a church conflict). I also remember doing training as a chaplain and I did an exercise in a coronary care ward in a secular hospital to see how many people I could talk to in depth about Jesus and then about the church. I found that out of about 250 people I could talk to about 70% about Jesus and maybe15% about the church (the Body of Christ). The two were clearly not the same. Upon reflection I think a very big lesson for me was/is most people, including myself in particular, have a great deal to learn about following Jesus.

[@JRRodriguez-nu7po]

There's a lot of very faithful Christians who don't step into a Church. The one verse, ONE VERSE, cited against them doesn't say to attend regularly; only to "not forsake the assembly". In contrast, an entire theological commentary about Genesis 1-3 AND angels is wrapped up in Paul's command to head cover women. Why is the tiny first verse emphasized while the much more concrete and emphatic passage about head cover not? $ Many pastors who don't fear man more than God; fear women. They hold the $ Hypocrisy

[@kirsty7608]

They wreak of a mysogyny & patriarchy that I hadn’t even come across as an atheist lol. in the light of Christ conversion, I was surprised how many treated their kids like crap too!

[@jenniferrhoades8956]

I just saw the cover over the video that read "Goodbye, Jesus" and an ineffable sadness just washed all over me. I may have some struggles along the way but giving up the treasure of Jesus is something to never be faced.

[@richarddouglas8015]

Pride was the reason he left. Jesus look at the cross and see if you could leave him because of people behaviour ,there is one who judges God .

[@radscorpion8]

@@richarddouglas8015 Assuming all christian who leave the faith weren't true christians, without understanding their story or reading the book he wrote. No true scotsman

[@pearlyq3560]

I know what you mean. Saying Goodbye to Jesus -- the thought of it is like taking away oxygen. I would cry forever.

[@incredulouspasta3304]

Many people have faced "giving up Jesus", and were just fine. It's not as bad as it seems once you are on the other side. If you ever have serious doubts, I hope you know that you will probably be just fine too.

[@bobdees6428]

Please don’t be offended by my comments , but I’ve met several pastors over the years who I couldn’t believe that they were in ministry. Just remember that a wolf , a false prophet doesn’t show their true colors/intentions in the beginning. I was at a church picnic and I was on the ground leaning against a picnic table leg removing my shoes . Low and behold 2 pastors walked up and started talking about some of the young women - it was a conversation that you would hear in any bar. After a couple of minutes one of them finally looked down and he grabbed the other pastor and pulled him away ( embarrassed ) . This isn’t the first time that I’ve heard pastors talking about women in their church. Years ago visiting my mother in law’s church my wife asked me to intervene between a drunk, armed husband and a pastor. Apparently he had just found out about the affair between the pastor and his wife. Long story short I talked him off the ledge , just because someone is behind the pulpit doesn’t make them a Christian. Billy Sunday used to say just because you spent time in the garage it didn’t make you a car - why would spending time in church make you a Christian 🤔

[@michelledillard6316]

Thank you for talking about mental health in the church. As a Christian living with Bipolar Disorder Type 1, I’ve been told so many times that I have unresolved sin or a demon because Christians can’t have mental health issues is frustrating, discouraging, and really does make you feel you’re all alone. It’s caused me to stumble so many times, sometimes Christians can be the most unloving people. Edit: Thank you all for your supportive comments. I’m in a good place now, with a supportive church family, and a God that is persistent and loving. I pray that as a Church, we use our speech to speak life to others lifting them up and sharing how much God loves them. For whatever reason, God has allowed me to continue to live with this illness and frankly, in some ways, I’m grateful. It keeps me humble and reminds me daily that I cannot do life without Him.

[@ingela_injeela]

I'm so sorry you had to go through this, Michelle. People can be clumsy and ignorant. We have to forgive as we have been forgiven. *Jesus* knows exactly how you feel. Never doubt His love and faithfulness.

[@akirahojo2]

I too suffer from anxiety and depression, but my prayer group, wife, friends and the church have been my pillars of strengths. Lift up your maladies and offer them to God. Trust in His grace and know you are not alone. I will pray for you.

[@ingela_injeela]

@@akirahojo2 Amen. We all go through hardship, one way or another. If we want to follow Christ, then trials and even persecution is unavoidable. If we allow Him, God will work *in* us *through* our tribulations. The 'thorn in our flesh' will bring us closer to the Throne!

[@nathanh2664]

My mom was bipolar. God bless you in your journey.

[@markb.8756]

@@akirahojo2 I totally get this. You have a partner in suffering.

[@daysefontoura8018]

From what I can see here, Tim still crying for help and this book proves it. Let's pray for him.

[@oldschool5]

He dont need it

[@Lighthouse-b3d]

​@@oldschool5it doesn't matter we need him back in CHRIST JESUS ❤

[@oldschool5]

@@Lighthouse-b3d No you dont. All this need for middlemen when it comes to our divinity is silly.

[@trevorsoh2130]

@@oldschool5 Our divinity? What do you mean by that?

[@oldschool5]

@@trevorsoh2130 Thats a good question and a difficult one to answer. Let me give you quick examples of what i mean when i mention divinity. A woman giving birth or a child being born is a divine universal process. Access to the sun is a divine right. Things that universal things that we lean on for our survival and ability to flourish and reproduce.

[@araci88]

I was a Catholic girl who became atheist because my nuns wouldn’t let me express my questions. After 18 years, when I turned 33, I met a Calvinist Christian man. He allowed me to ask, and ask, and ask and ask. And he listened and listened and listened. Together we looked at the Bible and based on logical reasoning he explained to me first WHO God is…and then the Gospel. It took 12 months of total questioning and curiosity, but also 12 months in which I was going through a lot of trauma in my personal life, and one day while praying I felt the weight of my sin and I claimed to God “Lord…I don’t know how to do this thing called life, please teach me, because I have no idea how to do it”. That was the day Jesus saved my soul and adopted me into the Christian family 🩷 Now I go to a reformed Presbyterian church where my pastors allow debates and theological conversations to be opened AND biblical and it is exactly what I needed to keep nurturing my faith in Christ. Thank you Lord for opening my eyes and slowly changing the desires of my heart ❤

[@jtlearn1]

Awesome! I'm in the opc . I love the reformed faith!

[@Anabee3]

WHAT A BLESSING! ❤. My mother grew up in the Roman Catholic church. She took us kids to mass on occasion (I think to please gma & gpa/her parents). I learned NOTHING. (I probably learned a cpl basic things by attending C.C.D. but that's about it & idr what those cpl/things were). As an adult- I asked my mom if SHE ever learned anything from mass (her parents took her & siblings every single Sunday.) She said "No" Me: The. Why did you take us kids to mass? (She gave me her sop answer to pretty much everything I asked it terms of her (very-unimpressive -to-me) life's choice. Mom: "It was the thing to do... Or atleast I thought so at the time.. I'm sure you learned more than I did, tho. All sermons were spoken in Hebrew when I was a kid..til I was in my late teens ". My mom stopped going & stopped taking us kids to church altogether when I was 14yo. She's never bn to another Catholic church since then (except funerals & such) nor has she gone to a protestant church. She RARELY speaks of God. Shes convinced she's saved but I see ZERO evidence/indication. She's 78yo. I fear for her eternal soul. It would be easier to minister to an athiest (aka: someone who knows she/he is not saved) if you know what I mean-and I think you do.

[@JMJ.516]

Why did you never think to ask anyone else? You unfortunately left the Church Jesus founded for a sad imitation. Start asking again, this time ask the Church.

[@JohnvonLovehq743]

How You Can Have Eternal Life ! Realize you are a sinner being sorry. Sin is lying, evil thoughts, lust,etc. Therefore, do not trust in your own works to go to heaven because you realize, being a sinner, you cannot offer the perfect blood sacrifice that God requires to pay for sin. Instead, believe, meaning fully trust, that in Christ's love for you, on the cross, His one perfect blood sacrifice, when Christ bled, suffered and died, in your place, paid for your sins in full, past, present and future ! Believe that Jesus rose from the dead ! Believe Jesus is God Almighty, God the Son, alive for evermore ! And believe that the sinless blood of Jesus Christ is what cleanses you from all sin, which purifies your soul ! Then the Lord Jesus will forgive you,save you from hell and give you eternal life ! And you will be sealed with the Holy Spirit who will dwell within you forever! And thank Jesus ! Rom.3:25,5:8,9,10:9, Is.53:5,6, II Cor.5:21, Ephes.1:7,13,4:30, Heb.10:14,38,39, I John 1:7, 5:7,13,20

[@jiop538]

Pity that you became an atheist just because nuns didn't make you express your questions,sincerely that is a very ignorant excuse to me you seemed to be a very very ignorant Catholic,possibly only by name and not by belief.Miss Araci88 those weren't the only nuns that exist in the world ,if you had questions there are so many other Catholics that would help you out with your questions like Apologetics,deacons,priests,other nuns,associations and just plain catholic people like myself, It's like when you went to school were all the teachers perfect and would help you or taught well and made it easy to understand? No there were some good ones ,some not too bad and some to forget about.Same thing in all faiths ,the only difference is apart from the people is that the Catholic Dogma is the most complete,most pure coming straight from Peter the apostle and on going.I stongly suggest to you to watch Keith Nester on youtube a former protestant pastor who became Catholic and is more Catholic than the born Catholics.It's sad when you are in the most authentic denomination and you change to a lukewarm one.Please really take a few minutes to watch Keith Nester,he really knows what he is talking about.Great pure hearted person.

[@mardrettekemp7182]

I once left the faith, but Jesus brought me back after twenty odd years.

[@DR-hd3zj]

Oh wow, that's me too. I haven't come across many others with that story.

[@123verona1]

Amen!! He is so good and He won't give up on the guy who wrote this book either. We will all pray for him! 😢

[@thelastdadgumfreakindangje9348]

❤❤❤

[@binderdundit228]

Did you go back to the same thing or did you find the Hebrew roots of the faith. It will make you leave mainstream Christianity and find a Torah keepers' group. Hope you look into it.

[@eddahwambui1306]

You need to share your story more loudly

[@susanh1447]

I have loved some of the pastors in my life, but I’ve also learned to always keep my eyes on Jesus.

[@paulnewkirk7351]

It is sad to be a member and serve in a new testment church where every sermon is prepared to make God more visible and understood, to encourage the believer, and help the lost, those without a personal relationship with God, to see themselves from God's perspective and see their situation and sense the need of God's love demonstrated through his Son Jesus Christ. Then to have a situation where the pastor has a moment of weakness and lies to the congregation. Not only did he lie but with every sermon for the next few months preach sermons that were designed to defend or tweak the truth. You are a follower of Christ and not the pastor. The pastor is no more above sin than I. But there comes a point where you find it impossible to listen any longer to his messages. You still love him and pray for him, but you realize that you must move on and he will eventually repent.

[@susankeen30]

Agreed! ❤

[@songbird1920]

👏❤️

[@obeedoo]

I, as a pastor, went through a period of burnout and brokenness, where I nearly entirely deconstructed my faith. The lack of empathy and understanding among Christians was disturbing. Were it not for the kindness of one pastor from another denomination, I'm not sure I would have ever made it.

[@yidiandianpang]

And Jesus really emphasized grace over judgemental pharisaism

[@obeedoo]

@@yidiandianpang he did, but it's a lesson so few Christians ever seem to learn, sadly.

[@yidiandianpang]

@@obeedoo it's absolutely foundational, prodigal son, pharisee and tax collector, every day!!! Sinful woman and Simon and the Pharisee. Lord have mercy on me a sinner...

[@littleboots9800]

​@@obeedooyou know I wonder if it's some kind of unconscious defence mechanism? As if your deconstruction or doubts endanger their own and possibly that of the other members and there's an unconscious desire to push out the "threat." Not that it's an excuse, but just something that good explain why ppl react this way.

[@mccaboy]

Did u offer the same grace to others in Yr flock?

[@spicher40]

I think of Peter’s response to Jesus when he said “ to where else can we go? You have the words of eternal life “ the world will not have anything for this man

[@johngregoryhouse]

I think at one time or another we all come to that point when struggling with our faith.

[@jlieneke7352]

The Truth is still the Truth. Where else would we go?

[@lanaandden]

Broken, beaten, led down, deprived....if there's anything i ever know in the midst of it all, its the love of Jesus. And when you know Him, there's no way of leaving despite your situation

[@Asher0208]

I have many reasons not to be a Christian. so, I do feel for a lot of what he went through. So why am I still a Christian? 1) Person experience- There is just something that God has done in me. Nothing would be right without Him. 2) Biographies- I cannot deny what God has done in the life of others. (Including Sean's dad.) 3) Apologetics- This has taught me there are many reasonable explanations for my questions. (Sean's dad included!) 4)Theology- Sometimes, my issues occur because I do not understand scripture properly. I just need to wrestle more to understand God better. 5)Creation- I have never been convinced by the theory of evolution. The first scientific fact I remember learning is that life creates life, something evolution denies. 6)What else? - I know of no other religion or philosophy that works as well, that is as reasonable and rational. Yes, I still have questions. There are plenty of things I do not like. But they are small compared to the issues that every other one that I know. 7) Acceptance- Sometimes, I just have to realise that this is God's world, and He has the right to make things happen his way. I would do things differently, but that does not mean life would be any better. 8)Grace and forgiveness- Have you ever spoken with perfect truth and acted with perfect love? If you have, congratulations, because I certainly have not. I fail my own standards, let alone God's. So, I try to be gentle with those who have let me down; just as I hope those I have unintendedly hurt, forgive me.

[@aaronshafer5513]

Perfectly said. You have a very healthy mature humble perspective.

[@darthvadersmom1192]

[@normatobin962]

Asher0208 What you wrote is very heartfelt and intelligent. Thank you for sharing your testimony!

[@patriciajacobs8993]

Tim, we are praying for you to come back to the faith Jesus Christ is real! He is the One who climbed Golgotha's Hill for all of us!

[@robinsonnier6887]

What reasons? When you follow the Lord, you have to give up on the world's ways. No drinking, smoking, sex or anything that displeases the Lord. Some people think it's ok to do what you want, but it's not. I'll say this......If you die without Jesus in your life, you will be separated from God FOREVER. You cannot call upon Him. Hell is a real place whether you believe it or not. Look at this story about a guy who went to Hell.....90 minutes in Hell.........

[@pamelak.8064]

I have been hurt by some Christians...even appalled by some. I have been in a few churches that have gone the wrong way, or just simply had no life left in them. I had no problem leaving those churches, and getting away from un-Christ-like "Christians". None of it has caused me to "leave Jesus".

[@MrSeedi76]

Bingo.

[@shawnboahene5231]

Amen

[@sarahrose1665]

Amen...Pamelak...Leave Jesus...indeed...Crazy Talk.. like his guys said... where would we go... who else has the Words of Iife...✌️🙋🌹

[@boseokhidie4655]

D fat that people treated u anyhow does not mean Jesus is d fake one here but bcos u have moved with those who.havr never met Christ b4

[@lhart5632]

For those commenting, until you experience the deepest pain that Christians who are not real Christians can cause, don't condemn those who leave because it makes you as much of the problem as the ones who hurt them. Instead, listen to them and try to show them CHRIST, not Christianity the religion! Jesus said to love others as He loves us. Go back and read your comments, and tell me if that is love like Jesus loves you. I left the "church" just over 40 years ago because of people who were not following God's love. HE brought me back, but it took me being in a hospital bed not able to speak or move to fully get my attention on Him. He gave me a loving choice, trust myself or trust Him. I chose Him and He led me to a church which reflected His love to help me grow in Him and express the love He gave me to others! Give those who reject Him a real example of God's love to experience rather than the fake love of this world and religion. 🙏

[@juleslee8059]

As some one who was burnt by megachurches and its community, it’s not God’s fault. If anything, God never stopped pursuing me and I have since returned to His presence and found a new, smaller church that focuses on His word rather than the visuals of the church. I love the Lord more than ever. Never stop praying for the people who leave, you don’t know what happened behind the scenes.

[@susankeen30]

Amen.

[@maxbprince6301]

Happy our Father has you back in His fold my brother. I am personally happy you’re back home. Thank you for sharing your testimony

[@janiceherrera1825]

I hope that any Christian who listened to this or read the book is praying for this man. If he's still alive, his story isn't over yet, and he still needs what he apparently never got from others - prayer. I was so angry at God years ago when my son with autism was young. We couldn't even go to church successfully and I felt rejected by God. I became so angry that one day I threw my Bible on my bed and started yelling at God that how could I believe he was who he says he is when I couldn't even go to church. I accused him of being a fraud. The next day when I woke up, I couldn't walk. I dragged myself on the floor to the living room, and that's when the phone rang. It was a woman from work who told me that God told her to call me and that I was a Christian, which she wasn't aware of. That conversation changed my life, and when we hung up, I could walk again. I realized God had done a Jacob thing on me because I had wrestled with Him. Instead of punishing me, He lifted me up. What the woman said that blew all the anger away was "God is so good; He's so good." Yes, I needed a total attitude adjustment, and I got it. We need to be constant in prayer, even bringing our doubts to Him. "I am the vine, you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is who bears much fruit, for apart from me, you can do nothing." - John 15:5. Let's not forget that we - the church - are a Sunday School lesson for the angels to see the manifold wisdom of God (Ephesians 3:10). We've got to abide in Him, which means living a life of love for Him and for others, and be constant in prayer to manifest his multi-faceted wisdom. God is so good; gracious and compassionate, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness.

[@Julie-xo9et]

Thank you gave me chills reading.

[@bethl]

What an amazing testimony. I can feel your angst & am grateful you came through it well.

[@susanawright7757]

Wow, what a strong experience!

[@prakash62468]

❤❤❤❤

[@micheleh5269]

What a powerful testimony. Bible says They overcome by the word of their testimony. Our churches need to bring this back

[@tamaragrooms9369]

I grew up in a broken world full of broken people, so the behavior of human beings doesn’t shake my faith. Although Christians must not conform to this world, we are all on a journey to perfection. I know that I still struggle with my sinful nature, so I know others do also.

[@TheMeekTheMild]

I grew up in a secular setting where I saw many broken people and horrible actions. Humans will be humans and the gates are narrow

[@StageWatcher]

Exactly. None of us are going to be perfect until our race is finished.

[@chrisneeds6125]

Yes, but don't make sin the focus. Shining His glory must be our *whole* reason for living in this world, past the moment He saves us from it ♡♡♡

[@chrisneeds6125]

@StageWatcher "Be thou perfect therefore, even as your heavenly Father is perfect." ♡♡♡

[@GreatBehoover]

​@@chrisneeds6125 That is done through putting on Jesus...not pretending to be perfect and not pretending to not struggle.

[@NZBrayden]

When my wife decided our relationship wasn’t worth the fight that was hard and hurt, but for me what hurt and upset me more than that was to see her turn her back on the faith she once had. There isn’t much I can do about it, but I pray regularly for her, and I try and show the Jesus love to her. I really like how the bible says we should treat those who an in error. First approach them one on one privately, then with a few people then as a church. And finally we are to treat them like someone outside the faith. Which is to say we are to love them and pray for them and witness to them, just as we are to do for everyone else who does not know Jesus.

[@broz1488]

You have an interesting conclusion to the teachings of Matt 18:15-17. Based on 1Cor. 5:9-13, not listening to the Church results in excommunication, and based on 2Cor. 6:14-18, one is not to socialize with one outside the Church. Escalating a matter to the level of Church elders involvement is a very serious step to take. Akin to taking someone to court.

[@dawnofchristmas]

I’m really sorry for the situation between you and your wife. I truly admire your comment, it’s very clear your heart is in the right place. I pray the best for the both of you. God bless you friend❤

[@stephenhagen234]

It honors God that you continue as her friend and spouse and love her unconditionally, as Christ does. God can take the hardness in her heart and make it soft again. And just put the results in His hands. He knows her better than you do and He knows how to work within her.

[@barrygaynor1025]

"Be faithful until death, and you will receive the crown of life", said Jesus.

[@JoeGulick-o6x]

This is a great discussion. I think back on when I was excummunicated from a very legalistic church based on my wife's report, and no other whitness. The church instructed her to divorce me and consider me dead, so that she could remarry a man she had met at another congregation. ...so, a few years later I found myself building a house on the back side of the California desert, and realizing that I actually hated God. I told him to get as far away from me as. He could. I broke down crying because I knew he would never let me go; instead, he directed me to open my Bible to Romans, and read. When I came to Romans, 11: 32, I became a changed believer! Sorry guys, I wanna keep writing but I gotta go. Love.

[@buffywoodring6581]

Wow! Truly amazing that even in your anger you were actually growing stronger in Jesus. What a powerful testimony! Thanking God you are still following God! That He healed your brokenness.

[@twinsof1965]

God does love everyone, especially the broken in spirit. He will give you beauty for ashes. I pray you will never turn back but stay with the Lord till the end. 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻♥️

[@gilberturesti338]

In your own description you did the right thing to come back to Jesus. Amen

[@Crunch07]

I loved reading your response. Well done, many people will see the love of the Father, as they read this response.

[@claraisnotmebutilikeit]

yeah people including Christians can be dissapointing, but God is not, He will never leave you alone.

[@nathanaelethan]

I feel this guy. I was deeply involved in public ministry since the age of 16. A guitar player who played in the worship bands all over town sometimes 5 nights a week in my younger years. In my early 30s I was leading worship in a growing church. My wife at the time started having a long term affair with the drummer in the band who was also a long term friend of mine. When it finally came out, the church paid for some marriage counseling sessions that were a joke where the first thing the counselor ever said to me was "you know this is your fault, right?" I kept going to the church as a bystander for a while as I'd stepped down from a leadership role and quickly became a pariah. That was 15 years ago and I havent been back to church more than a few times since. I love Jesus and pray and stay in the word and actually have a deeper relationship with Christ than I probably even did then in a lot of ways, but I have a hard time dealing with "the church " I've spent some bad years along the way not walking as I should, but I've never pretended to be anything but real to people. And along the way, I've had the opportunity to share Jesus with people that I never would have interacted with otherwise. To this day I'll pray for and counsel the cocaine addict who sees dark spirits in her house or the victims of abuse. And always point people to Jesus without an apology. I just can't reconcile my very real and life changing faith with what is the church that I've experienced.

[@RA4J]

I had similar experience. Don’t let the turds take the church. It’s God’s, not theirs.

[@littleboots9800]

Oh man. That's a special kind of betrayal, from your wife, friend and the church. I can understand why you have stayed away for so long. I'm so sorry, but am heartened you have held onto your faith.

[@ingela_injeela]

So sorry to hear your story. People fail us - we fail people. But Jesus only has our ultimate best in mind. He uses life's trials for our growth and sanctification. My life hasn't been easy, and people have failed me at times. But if I'm honest, I have also failed others, lacking understanding, and even lacking love. So I'm so encouraged that you know to differentiate between people, churches, and *Jesus* . In the times we live, there is so much apostasy anyway, and many Christ followers have to leave churches to meet in homes, or even online. Stay close to Jesus, brother. And make sure that you have some kind of fellowship. We are not meant to be alone.

[@gaynorkelly9413]

I am/was much like you....after the painful experience of a church split together with the association of 'politics and prosperity' in the church I decided God and I could do great without it.....returning after many years just out of obedience to the scripture 'do not neglect to meet together as us the habit of some' rather than to look for that warm, fuzzy surrogate family and spiritual guidance'....there seems to be plenty 'warm and fuzzies'.....everything is accepted....not to love and heal....but to affirm and promote....female pastors (but no bible studies or childrens ministries. Pastors with multiple marriages, LGBQT affirmining ministries and marriages....I've certainly learned there's no 'perfect' church and attending one that seems the least 'bible bending' as possible in order to be obedient and to take my family and new converts to. Thank goodness I no longer depend on IT for ALL my needs...but rather all the resources my AWESOME Father in Heaven has provided....His Word, His Spirit, HIS example, a 12 step program that is really a practical way of living a spiritual life, doctors of physical and mental health and more than anything in my advanced years a decision that if I am to err I will err on the inerrancy of scripture (especially where our Lord Himself has spoken), than the opinions of man....who echo what the serpent said in the garden...'did God REALLY say......'.

[@ingela_injeela]

@@gaynorkelly9413 Amen! Good decision. Yes, we do need fellowship. And no, we can't just join any old 'church'. Sometimes a home group is the best alternative. God calls His children to "come out of her".

[@kevinwhilock1457]

My heart was broken back in the 80s after a my wife left me and how I was treated by my church, I tried to walk away, but by Gods grace i didn't, but I do understand, after over 35 years I still have scars, but Father God has used these to make me who I am now, with a wonderful wife of 31 years and five children.

[@abelgovender4115]

Great discussion. I sense such compassion in your hearts for those who leave the faith. God bless you!

[@carlafranke7071]

I am considering two things after listening to this: Be merciful to those who doubt. Jude 1:22,23. When I wandered away from the faith for 10 years, the first steps forward were books and Christian apologists who answered my questions and then learning to trust and obey, pray and walk through situations where many people, often Christian folk, would discourage me, but then realize my foundation is the Lord, not people, “there is none righteous no, no not one.” and the faith journey has a lot of hills and valleys, we have to spend time in personal relationship with God to know him and know the power of His transforming presence in our lives. I’ve seen transformation, I’ve lived it, and I go back and read Titus 3 often enough to remind myself! And I would just add, the heart of man is deceitful, we have to abide in Him, and by God’s grace, Let no man deceive you. Matthew 24:4.

[@JesusIsComing1111]

Amen 🙏

[@dolanridgecommunitychurch7433]

I’m just a small church pastor but I can’t imagine trying to shepherd a megachurch. You just can’t be as hands on and person to person in a setting like that. I thank you for putting this out

[@jobrown8146]

You are a small church pastor. You are not "just" a small church pastor. An older gentleman once picked me up on saying that I'm just a typist. I think I was in my late teens at the time and he was probably in his 40s. I'm now 65 and that has always stuck with me.

[@CAsnowman]

I don’t think megachurches are Gods will for how a church should be, it just doesn’t seem right. I always see megachurches falling into traps like being more about entertainment than relationship with Jesus, false teachings, lacking intimate fellowship etc. I think they’re just too big and it creates weird and dangerous dynamics

[@veronicaspencelocke2003]

@@jobrown8146 Amen!♥️

[@WordMadeFlesh777]

Yea I can’t imagine it either. The powers struggles and politics would be mind blowing. Even a small church would be hard. I just don’t have a huge tolerance for shenanigans by so called believers acting like the world.

[@IMOO1896]

I attend a mega-church, and the pastor is employed as pastor, he does not run the church, he attends meetings, but the board and departments run the church. Pastor doesn’t get involved in personal issues or taking sides about issues.

[@vickimejia-gewe499]

Sean, I was deeply touched by your empathy and sensitivity toward people who struggle with or have left the faith. Too many Christians rush to judgment instead. I experienced the blessing of that empathy personally years ago when your wife and I were in our first year of undergrad and studied calculus 1 together. I went through a major crisis of faith due to a toxic dating relationship that led to sin and all sorts of doubts about God. For a time, she was the only person at school I felt safe talking with about these problems. Thank you to you and her for both of your sensitivity. It took me years before I regained my full commitment to walking with the Lord, but I now have a strong Christian marriage, and we are both highly active in our church, Lake Avenue Church. I now try to use my past to connect with young people and help them avoid my mistakes but also see God in his forgiveness, redemption, and love. I wish more Christians would avoid that rush to judgment but show the compassion I see in this video.

[@konroh2]

Grace, grace, God's grace, grace that will pardon and cleanse within.

[@MultiSignlanguage]

Amen, I agree. I want to see more compassion and understanding from other Christian’s also 🕊️

[@AliceSusanHarding]

@@MultiSignlanguage It seems they don't know the Bible very well because there is an important scripture about this: “Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest yourself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. Or do you despise the riches of his goodness, forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?” (Romans 2:1,4)

[@elliescamp7209]

Once you truly know Jesus. You cannot ever live without Him again. ❤

[@MomofJAL7510]

What do you do with Jude 22?

[@MVN9]

Amen! Well Said!

[@binderdundit228]

...until you see that all the New Testament quotations taken from the Hebrew Bible are altered to make the New Testament accounts seem believable. I bet you never cross referenced one in your life. Check out Rabbi Tovia Singer as one place that will make your mind crack and rethink everything.

[@mariemarie3614]

🙏🏾

[@UnbelievingPastor]

after 20 years of serving in ministry full time it's easy to live without the fairytale, immoral god of the bible

[@johnobrien8393]

This interview truly broke my heart. It’s sad that believers have forgotten the common grace that drives us as Christians. We are to encourage and restore fellow believers who are hurt and broken. Thanks for this interview, it opened my eyes to where I need to ask Christ for forgiveness due to my lack of grace at times.

[@carshacarsha7409]

Wise comment ❤

[@dougmartin8664]

John, I'm a biblical counselor, and my job is restoring others to faith. I have to be honest with you, I'm just like a fisherman, and many more get away than come for help. I'm always there and always willing to share God's truth and love with them, but the choice is ultimately theirs. I can't change that. So I keep casting out the line, with some success, and a lot of failure. But I won't compromise on God's truth, no matter what. And no matter what, some people seem to be seeking, but in reality, they only want to affirmed, and affirming them is not nearly enough.

[@nancyfonzen3044]

There was a time in my life when I was going to walk away from my faith. I told the Lord, "I can't do this anymore. I feel like a fake Christian. Nothing is changing, my prayers don't do anything. I'm going to leave you." And I heard this from the Lord, so distinct, it felt like I heard it out loud, "And where will you go? If you go to deepest part of the sea, I am there.If you go to the highest mountain, I am there, too. I am never leaving you." In the midst of my crying I had to laugh and say, "You're right, Lord. I can never leave You. I will keep on keeping on." That was a while ago and there are still struggles, but I never wanted to leave my faith ever again. It has helped me empathize with those who struggle with their faith.

[@salauerman7082]

I believe that you did hear, definitely in your spirit, but probably also with the ears you have. I know I heard the audible answer to one question I asked God, most distinctly with my BAD ear, which made it so memorable.

[@dean366]

LOVE THIS 🙏 SO TRUE .. Where would you go !!! ??? Hold on. hold fast. Disappointments and hardship will persist all the while, in our flesh. Yes, even for Christians and thank God you were not a Christian during say, Nero’s rule 😅 Keep hold … God Bless 🙏🙏🙏

[@salauerman7082]

@@dean366 there could easily be a time coming that it’s better to be killed for serving God, than to remain alive with the government that we will probably see. If life serving God is difficult, imagine how it’ll be under survival of the fittest rule, without God.

[@simonpaintsunday2377]

Wow. That is fantastic. A little wisper from God can change everything. Thanks for sharing this.

[@sarathurston8469]

❤❤❤

[@hankstribe8738]

Thank you for the "freedom to express doubt" phrase. Something to mull over. Very good.

[@jamiemichels9509]

Being raised in an alcoholic family, I found Alanon- which was a tool that Jesus used to restore my life and sanity. I want to be obedient and continue to grow in my relationship with God through Jesus. ❤

[@michaelthornton8000]

AFTER taking a bottle of pills to end ones life, a phone call is often made to inform a friend of the act. Doctors have long recognized that phone call, as a "cry for help." This book, appears to be a 400+ page "phone call to a friend." WE are all, that "friend." We must help him. PRAY FOR THIS MAN!

[@whitemountainapache3297]

Thou fool. How dost thy knoweth wither this sinner was ever of The Elect. Nay! I sayeth to thee, Tare.

[@oshea2300]

Wow. I see a couple problems here... You don't know if they were born again or saved.. why would you use the word elect unless you're a calvinist.?? And to go around calling people fools that's just pretty arrogant don't you think?

[@oshea2300]

White mountain Apache are you trying to be arrogant?

[@judywright6889]

@whitemountainapache3297 Sooo, he can't distinguish between the wheat and the tares, but you can? 🤔

[@marilyngilberts2775]

I appreciate your grace-filled response. I pray he is ministered to through watching this interview.

[@petermiles5714]

Thanks Sean and Scott for your great insights on such a heart-breaking story. Yes, there's a lot we can learn here - especially in having empathy and love for those who doubt.

[@shannonl9633]

Sean, your sensitivity, empathy and compassion can be so healing for individuals who are deeply struggling along these lines. It's so much more common than is realized.

[@celiafish]

My pastor run away with a missionary that was married with 5 children! I used love his teaching’s and admired him. I was 17 years old and it was a shocked for me. It was very hard for the whole youth group. It took me a year to recovered. I did have a very strong relationship with Jesus. Some friends helped me and I moved to another church.

[@shelteredsparrow2736]

❤❤❤

[@chrisliving1610]

yeah... the question is, when you've gone through this or other kinds of betrayal and justification of wrongdoing from the church leadership, where do you go?? In the past 23 years we changed 4 congregations. Several months back there was a huge tragedy in our community (not in our congregation) when a husband viciously killed his wife of 8 years, while their 3 little kids slept in the next room. For the last two years she was told by her pastor and elders NOT to separate from him because only marital unfaithfulness is a cause for divorce. When I talked to my pastor about this, his reaction was, in the unbelieving communities the rate of spousal murder is much higher.

[@WalkingbytheSpiritAlways]

God bless you. When you read the Bible about divorcing and remarrying (which Jesus says is adultery), there are MANY pastors and "Christians" who are living in adultery. I feel sorry for the innocent spouses since I am one, but I have kept my vows now 41 years ago though alone since 2006. If you were able to find a church that preaches the truth about sexual immorality and that the rapture is soon, you have found a good church which is almost impossible. My channel tries to wake people up to the end times. God bless.

[@deborahgonzalezknight168]

Men never get sanctified, they stay in sin and their hearts are full of lust. And pride. See it all the time.

[@deborahgonzalezknight168]

The rapture is not soon.

[@kingdomreachministries695]

Great conversation and overview. I personally struggle very much with what I see in "church" and hypocrisy and coldness, lack of love and lack of living out the faith. I think I best bring these things to God and tell him my struggles, pray for wisdom. As long as we are in this world there will be all the symptoms and impacts of sin both in and around us. We see it in the early church in Paul's writings and still to this day. We are in a real war. But the bible is filled with warnings and prophecies of these types of issues coming along. I believe that every single church building and denomination in the world are filled with Wheat and Tares, Real and False converts, Look at the continuous ongoing problems God has with Israel and also the book of Job as a classic individual case study, there is nothing new under the sun. The parable of the sower gives the best example of this too as everyone comes up in a certain type of soil and either thrive or sadly die. The impacts of any pain and suffering, injustice, moral conflicts seem to either drive people away or rather closer to God. Two people will react very differently going through the exact same set of circumstances with opposite outcomes. The whole thing is holding onto our faith, not letting go, trusting God and not leaning on our own understanding but knowing that God IS good and IS righteous and the day of settlement WILL come and never tire of doing good knowing that in due season you will reap your reward for those who endure to the end. I am very saddened by these people walking away from the faith but Jesus came down to live it out with us and partake of it, whatever we suffer in this life he suffered more and is not indifferent. God did not intervene and make his life here a joy and peace time while here in the flesh. But Jesus had a choice he could have destroyed them when they came after him to crucify him but he went along willingly like the lamb to the slaughter and he did it for us so we could be with him as his people for eternity. I can't ever turn away from that and it is the hope I cling to during any period of suffering or misfortune. Fight the good fight, run the race, endure and persevere and rejoice in the good times until he returns or takes us home. I thank God for the hope we have in the Lord Jesus Christ. God strengthen and keep you. Never give up 🙏 Romans 8:18 - For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

[@tommac5411]

I am not a Christian. However, I like how you two discuss these type of issues. Honestly and forthright. Much appreciated.

[@robinsonnier6887]

How come you don't believe in God?

[@robinsonnier6887]

If you're not serving the Lord, You're serving something.....choose whom you will serve

[@dorothywillms115]

I would welcome you into the family. Families have many problems that is true. We must all learn to be kinder and less critical. My husband and I have a long story too,and are estranged from a brother who saw to it that we were excommunicated and handed over to Satan for the destruction of our flesh. We’ve been shunned ever since.However, no one is perfect because as human beings we are flawed. On this earth we need to apologize to God for our short comings,which includes bearing grudges. God is good. He loves us. If he can forgive us we need to as well. Only God can save us. I hope you understand that we can’t blame and focus on other peoples errors and abuse. We have to keep our eyes on Jesus and love him. So I’m inviting you to accept Jesus as your Saviour today. He is coming back very soon to take those who love him to live in a glorious place we can’t imagine.

[@willpower6720]

You must be born again. Jesus said so. John 3:3-5

[@caroleimani9754]

Romans 10:9--11❤

[@safecracker80]

Very insightful comments. Thank you. I wish I had had the opportunity to love Tim during his crisis. Sean, you are blessed with a very sincere and soothing voice. God bless both of you.

[@ruekjaeg4863]

We should pray for him and for each other Thanks Sean for God's wisdom in you, stay strong in Christ alone Also let's remember to pray for our children and for children everywhere Grace and blessings

[@louiscyfer6944]

yeah, pray that he gets a brain and doesn't stay this dumb.

[@brennakohlhase4194]

Ah Tim, if you’re listening, God sees you, He knows you, you may feel you don’t know Him, but He Knows you. People will always fail you, but God will never fail you. These days are dark. He is separating the sheep from the goats and all the more as the end draws near.

[@ingela_injeela]

Amen. Tim, I'm so sorry for what happened to you. People may hurt us - and we may also hurt people. But Jesus never deserves that we leave *Him* .

[@ophanimangel3143]

@MySkippingou mean those nephilim who were killing and cannibalising people? Yeah how can God just wash them away instead of letting them keep on murdering other human beings? You want to also spare the Amorites too since they were sacrificing children, burning them to the altar, but you think God’s intervention is far too harsh. The lack of knowledge is perishing.

[@ingela_injeela]

@MySkipping When God saw that *his own creation* , the Earth, was filled with *violence* and *evil* continually, does He not have every right to reset and start all over? He created something *very good* and the first humans turned it *very bad* . Since God started it, is it not also His decision to put a stop to evil, and start anew?

[@TyrannosaurusRex1997]

​@MySkippingTroll Spotted

[@HelennaPierce]

That was the opposite for me. For the longest time, I didn't believe. I think I was more in denial to be honest, but when I saw how insane our society became, I turned to Jesus for some inner peace in all of this chaos, and I'm immensely thankful for it, because it does help.

[@mariojbrunetti]

I had a similar experience. I never completely lost my faith, but the chaos of the secular world and the acceptance and glorification of sin by society helped me to see that Jesus was right. Apart from Him, we can do nothing, or at least nothing right.

[@mariadeswardt1533]

Yes. We live in a chaotic World and know this... Only Jesus gives perfect peace. That I know. Been around for nearly 80 years.. seen it all but, I thank G-D daily for His PEACE.

[@graftme3168]

​@@mariadeswardt1533It's God. Not G-d.

[@graftme3168]

When people say "faith doesn't work" they mean "faith doesn't make my life perfect." God never promised that faith would make everything perfect, or even close to it. They don't understand the true Gospel.

[@mawmawvee]

@@graftme3168 God knows Who He is and who is talking to Him. Some people think that God's name is too sacred to speak, or even write. Some people don't think the same way. I think God can handle and understand which is which because He reads and knows our hearts and knows who we are.

[@jaelzion]

As a preacher's kid, you said a word about how children raised in the church might lean into their doubts as a way of separating from their parents and establishing their own identity. That really resonates with me. I became a believer as an adult, after moving away from home. 3000 miles away, completely independent, I stopped considering faith to be "Mom and Dad's thing" and started evaluating it for myself. And God found me then. Maybe Christian parents should make sure they are allowing space for their children to separate in other ways, so rejecting the faith won't seem necessary to become their own person.

[@janetricoeverett7233]

I'm so, so thrilled for you that you have made faith in Jesus Christ yours as opposed to your parents. You're right: God doesn't have grandchildren; He just has children. Our son has left his faith also. I pray for him all the time, but I lay Him in Christ's hands. It's between him and Christ now.

[@blairberry3555]

Thank you, gentlemen and brothers in Christ, for your thoughtful comments and your compassion. Another aspect of what's happened in this man's life and other pastors and people in leadership is the demonic attacks that seek undermine believers with especially those in ministry. Our leaders need constant covering in prayer and intercession.

[@salserokorsou]

So the man wrote a whole book and didn't mention anything that is fundamentally wrong with the bible? It was a book about feelings?

[@realitywithdeb]

Wolf in Sheep's clothing anyone???. Demons have nothing to do with bad pastors! I think the demon/Satan gets too much credit sometimes. We humans are just bad/evil; period!!!.

[@RuslanKD]

19:47 mic drop moment. This needs to be discussed more and often in church.

[@emmaaudu3461]

Maybe we ought to know that Christians would sin against us, and try not to be reactive about it. We often act as though people's sin against us, is the most wicked thing there is. Not to down play the effect, but we as Christians should know this more than the world. Matthew 5:23-24 Even Jesus has given us a heads up about our brothers and sisters tendencies to sin against us.

[@jamiemcvay130]

So irritating! There is never a “drop mike” moment!

[@TheChosenrebel]

Scott, Marty Schoenleber here, Thanks to both of you for this great discussion. Love your distinction between mental health effects of "sin against" versus mental health effects of our personal sin. Praying for all the hurting pastors who have been broken by malicious and graceless situations and people. Stay faithful brother. Let's finish well.

[@lcraver4797]

I really appreciate the talk of "trajectories" - I was raised in the church but have had some interesting paths along the way and have been "reconstructing" a few things following my wife's death two years ago. I'm talking about things like realizing the degree to which I wasn't there for my children because of my own pursuits (work, volunteerism etc) and mostly now how I daily pray for them. But again thank you for a really good session.

[@cathy7382]

Let's keep this former pastor in prayer

[@bignige]

Or you could stop American churches supporting the murder of innocent kids in Gaza.

[@violetweston3401]

same as andy stanley, deviant and many more

[@salserokorsou]

Why? You want for god to remove his free will and force him to believe?

[@leshigashi]

Wow what a great discussion on an important subject. I have absolutely experienced church hurt and I am sure I have hurt people unintentionally. We definitely need to be careful of our witness and how it affects not only brothers and sisters in Christ but unbelievers. I have met people who were missionaries, pastors, leaders, etc who left the faith. Including my own rejection of faith for over two decades. I love the loving and Christlike response you both have for the former mega pastor.

[@blusky7]

And I hope the author of that book would see this video, how faith in Jesus really does change lives. These two speakers here are some examples. What a pity that the author never encountered Spirit-changed people in his life😢

[@thebonniemonroeshow3708]

This is such an important conversation to have during these times. Thank you for really doing God’s work, Sean.

[@stephenhagen234]

Let's also understand that people change in many ways. We learn, hopefully, from the hurts, discouragements, and disillusionments of life and relationships. The saying is, "learn to roll with the punches" is really needed. This book, which I am reading presently, is well worth the time and effort.

[@unknownchristianwoman85]

God once told me, "I am not my people." We can't judge God based on people. He is so much greater and different than us. Praise God for that! It took me time to actually accept that, though, and it can be hard to learn and understand.

[@j-3163]

If God told you, "I am not my people," why are you finding it hard to understand that? It's absolutely simple. Of course, you can't judge God based on a pastor, preacher, evangelist, or anyone because we're all sinners. People get broken in some churches, while others get healed and transformed in churches that are totally focused on the Lord. It all depends on who you're listening to and who is representing God. Some pastors are terrible and are in it for the money, while others are just burned out because they are human. Some pastors are amazing. So, never ever judge God on a pastor or anybody else as a reflection of our Lord because you cannot, ever, judge God through a man or a woman who is supposed to represent Him. When pastors fall, people criticize them and then leave the church, becoming disillusioned in their faith because they are judging God based on man. It's simple: never ever do that. Have your own personal relationship with the Lord and you won't have that problem. Lord, I ask you to put this into everyone's heart that reads it and bless them in Jesus' name.

[@MinnieMouseRice]

I know God sent me this video today. This gave me a lot to think about when dealing with those around me that are struggling with faith and life choices. You handled it with such grace and empathy. I want to carry that in my heart as I talk to people. God only knows what’s gonna happen in the end with those that have walked away from him, because their story isn’t over yet. I believe Jesus when he said I will never leave you, I will never forsake you.

[@Jonas-gl9ke]

How would you tell the difference between videos that you just think God sent you and videos that God actually sent you?

[@Zban26]

@@Jonas-gl9ke Well that is a very hard question. Usually what I recommend is to pray genuinely. Bring doubts to him. Other thing is just to meditate on it with scripture. But the first one is most simple and powerful for those who is coming to faith.

[@Jonas-gl9ke]

@@Zban26 So you’ve prayed genuinely and “brought doubts to him”. You have also “meditated on it with scripture”. A video now pops up on your KZbin feed. How do you tell the difference between a video that you just think God sent you and a video that God actually sent you?

[@Zban26]

@@Jonas-gl9ke well I have recent experience in a conference for faith. I was being doubtful of my faith because as in the video pointed out hypocrisy was one thing that can shaken someone faith. I was being a hypocrite by still living in sinful habits which I couldn’t get rid of properly. Basically, I was living in double life. However at that conference I genuinely pray for the Holy Spirit to transform me, and after that day. I been making progress, and two days later I found this video along with others that was just randomly in the home page. These were not even in recommendations. The videos really hit home on what stage of journey I am on, and how I could do more. This is just my experience, but if you want to be sure you can just ask God through prayer, and try to keep open mind. It is okay to be doubtful just don’t down right reject it.

[@Jonas-gl9ke]

@@Zban26 The videos in the homepage are generated by the KZbin algorithm. If a Muslim prayed to Allah and had a similar experience, do you think the credit should go to Allah?

[@philwilliams3470]

I have been severely hurt by the church establishment..but never denied my Lord and Saviour Jesus

[@mountaingirl6479]

Thank you for posting this interview. I have a friend struggling bc she was greatly sinned against as a child. She believes in God, but doesn’t know if God loves her . All I can do is accept her, doubts and all, and love her where she’s at And pray God works in her heart in a way that I just can’t reach. This interview encouraged me, thanks again.!

[@555pontifex]

I responded to the gospel with tears when I was 12. Within 6 months I had seen a miracle. It is impossible for me to 'deconvert'. I think nobody should become a pastor who does not have a supernatural testimony that makes it impossible to deconvert. People with natural gifts and charisma, but no spiritual substance, can become very successful in ministry in the United States.

[@roberteaston6413]

For Canadians of my parents generation the most shocking thing for Christians to deal with was the defection of evangelist Charles Templeton. After World War Two Templeton with his friend, Billy Graham, preached for Youth for Christ. He was just as successful as Graham. He was better educated and more sophisticated. Then he ceased being a Christian. To the end of his life he denounced Christianity. He died of Alzheimer's disease. Graham visited him as lay dying. He was handsome, charming, and seemed to be good at anything he tried. A gifted man but an apostate. My Pentecostal friends say he is in Hell. My Calvinist friends think he may have been saved after all.

[@palmerther]

@@roberteaston6413 These type of stories are becoming more and more common. There is a reason it's called finishing the race and we can see truths like in 1 John 2:19. This is very tragic and it fills my heart with dread for the thought of people who open their eyes and realize the truth - that that is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. We know there will be a great falling away in the last days and it's a sad thing to witness. Ultimately if the Lord bought us, he'll keep us for he is greater that is in us than is in the world. For there is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus. As for whether he is in heaven or hell, only the Lord knows. All we can do is judge fruit. Perhaps there was repentance at the end.

[@theochasid8996]

Within 6 months I had seen a miracle. Seeing a miracle is not dependent on you so you cannot take credit in that or boast in that. Paul saw the heavenly light while he was seeking to hunt God's sheep. I'm a Christian and I have not seen a divine voice or light or experience along those lines, I also know someone who has experienced a divine hug from God. I also question all claims to miracles and see if they line up with the Bible or not and if the person is honest.

[@w4rsh1p]

That’s what confirmation bias means. Your miracle is still in your imagination.

[@w4rsh1p]

People with spiritual experiences still deconvert. You just find a better explanation. Don’t you think other theists have experiences? Cmon!

[@THISWEEKINHUMANdotcom]

Oh man, there is no much on so many level, it is insane. I was there, as I was raise in the Reformed Church, then became a heathen like my father, then found my way back to Christ. Now that I have been on that road so straight and narrow, I have seen it, lived it, and now it is being restored back to me a hundred fold. I lost my wife, then once I learned to let that go, our Heavenly Father brought a woman of God into my life, and now our ministry is in the very early stages, but by God's grace, I have take up that call again; don't given up, literally walk by faith, and simply trust Jesus...or don't, as one has such a beautifully awesome reward, the other not so much.

[@cindyelam9509]

I have empathy for his adversities, but..I feel he was putting his faith in people and the church establishment..also his identity in the church as well..when the absolutely only place to put your faith , identity and happiness is in God and God alone...people will let you down whether intentionally or not intentionally...also one of Satan's favorite places to attack is the church and church body...he's seems to be forgetting we have an enemy that is ruthless, so none of this should be surprising to him..Satan IS real and he's here to kill, steal and destroy...also I've seen and heard demons, as did my son..so you better believe Hell is real..none of this is surprising to me, human beings, "Christians" are fallible, in every sense of the word..I've been through so much pain iand adversity in my 57 years, but never once did I consider turning from my faith...as far as discrepancies in the Bible..when more than one person is giving their account to a situation, they're not going to be the same...and if there's questions, ask God...he's focusing on the wrong things, he's picking it apart and that's wrong...he'd have plenty of time in heaven to ask all the questions he wants...we are here to do what good we can do, for the very short time we are here, to love each other and help bare each other's cross...don't overthink it

[@jtoons99]

Brothers, this was such a moving, respectful review of Tim Sledge's book. I pray he watches it!

[@markstevens7838]

I love you guys. Grace, Grace, Grace. God is always wanting us back. We need to make room in the Church for the wounded and the prodigals. To a back sliden believer who is repentant we need to restore because we are they.

[@ingela_injeela]

Amen

[@rebeccahayhurst442]

I loved this conversation. I really appreciated the thoughtfulness that both Scott and Sean showed in really hearing this pastors story emotionally as well as from a theological perspective. I think when you live long enough on this planet, you know how brutal it can be and we need to have humility that in our own humanity, without Gods grace and help, its understandable why we wrestle and doubt at times and how a person could come to these conclusions and hopefully we can be a safe place for others who are struggling and wounded with their faith or the church.

[@yvonnedoulos8873]

First time listener. So grateful for this as I have a prodigal child that I have been praying that the Lord would give me wisdom on how to speak to. This was very helpful! Thank you!

[@The_ex-atheistwk6tv]

I was never fully in the church. I turned my back on God in 2010. Unfortunately, my mother would make us walk to church, even though she never attended, but expected us to know verses. She would stay out and "work" as a waitress at a truck stop. She would use hell to absolutely scare us away from sin, while also doing seances. I kept the church at a distance as an adult until 2010, when I completely turned my back on God, and became an atheist, but I wanted to outmoral the Christians. Fortunately, at the time I left the faith, God put people in my life that brought me to God, and I saw that God was watching over me the whole time. God is good!

[@robertrlkatz6890]

I like to ask this question. Can you with all certainty know that you are going to be in Heaven when you die?

[@The_ex-atheistwk6tv]

@@robertrlkatz6890 well, I would hope so. I have given myself completely to God. I am a 24/7 Christian. The Apostle Paul had helped delete Christians and God used him as the one spread the gospel. I don't believe any one of us can be righteous, but we can all be redeemed.

[@steventerry593]

A sincere thanks to both these men for such a thoughtful and compassionate response.

[@tomyossarian7681]

If you don't see through their fraudulent manipulation, you will not be saved.. 🤭

[@Jesus-The-Everlasting-Father]

I have re-dedicated my faith in Christ after being a born-again lukewarm christian. In 2020, i said " I am re-dedicating my life to you Lord", then after doing so, booooom, the Holy Spirit kept manifesting in me every Sunday praise and worship thru tears of joy and reverence to our Lord. The weeping coming from my belly always manifest in me. Church goers sitting near me would come to me and say "are you ok" or "is something wrong?", they didn't know that when your praise and worship Jesus in spirit and truth, the Holy spirit manifests in you either by speaking in tongues or tears. This happens every Sunday in our worship, in my bedroom when i worship alone, in my car while driving and worshiping God. This happens to me everywhere when i worship God in spirit and Truth.

[@ginalight-x8d]

And if it lifts what will you do? I had decades of this. Now I have none of it. But I still follow.

[@christiandad5920]

I think your observation about mental health regarding being sinned against is very astute. I went through something similar where my actions caused rejection by people, where i felt guilty, which was reinforced by the rejection by these people, which i then projected on to God, so that the feelings i felt i associated that it was God rejecting me, where i felt unforgivable, and all the brokenness feelings was God being angry at me. Eventually i realised the lies i was telling myself but it took God saving my life several times from suicidal ideation and attempts, plus physical danger from others, after crying out for His help. That took about 3 years!!! Just struggling through each day mentally with the worst thoughts that were against God, but i didn't want to think like that so this internal battle raged for ages, then i felt guilty for having these thoughts. Ahhh, wouldn't wish it on anyone. BUT through this with hindsight it has given me fresh appreciation for God and how much He loves me, and that instead of trusting my feelings rather trust God's promises through His word. It's still a working progress, but one i feel confident God won't leave me, no matter how much i screw up, just gotta trust His love, proven through Jesus' death and resurrection and what He has done recently as well. Anyway that's MY story, we all have one, if you're struggling, allow God to do His healing and struggle until you don't. Then you can look back with God and say, 'wow, thanks Father for doing all that for me, i love you, help me to walk the rest of the way with you'. God bless guys.

[@RoyalFalcon777]

I'm ex Muslim and I've seen a lot on my path before and after being born again ! Follow only Jesus and get up whenever you fall ! Have your vision and place in the body of christ ✝️

[@suzannegriffiths4795]

The kingdom of God is invisible, being in our own hearts. It's important to not look to the "Church" when many are Apostate, and not led by the Spirit of Holiness. The true gospel requires us to lose our life to follow Him. That cost means that many are choosing a shortcut, and are not really KNOWN by Him Matthew 7 "I never knew you". God says "be holy as I AM holy. This is only possible because God changes His own and leads us by His Spirit. Ezekiel 36:25-27, Romans 8:13&14, 1John 1-3

[@VgtslotsBibra]

You never were one before stop lying Islam is the truth . You should really have researched or followed Islam I don’t see it how you like others when they all becoming homosexuals and atheists. But good luck .

[@Mo_Hamd72]

Why lie? I know why... you are a serial liar like your church. There is NOTHING a Muslim will gain becoming a Christian. Nothing. If you think there is something, tell us what t is.

[@rociobello5485]

You give a beautiful testimony with those words May God keep on blessing you🤗💛

[@karenschelhorn1326]

It's hard to understand any church not wanting to help broken people. I always believed that church first of all is a spiritual hospital. The church I grew up in supported me when I had a child without being married. This is connected to my next point. People that have been broken and God has spiritually healed them should be helping those that are spiritually broken.

[@jenilvaabes5852]

In order to help broken people,the leader must first healed

[@job92544]

All of us struggles with some issue. No matter what life brings, we must place our trust in the Lord and walk strong in faith. Pray and ask God to lead us.Proverbs 3:5-6

[@frankalbertyap9132]

My belief about stories such as this is that everyone does experience pains, disappointments, and in many ways, doubts. We are in a broken, fallen world -- this I always remember because the Bible says so. I also think that coming to terms with the truth that we just can't answer it all is instrumental in keeping ourselves in complete humility that we need God's continuous sustenance. Let us continue praying for those people who left the faith and are still in battles finding themselves a way out back to Jesus.

[@livingsimplywithcj7878]

I haven't watched the video yet. But the title resonates with me. Both my parents are christian ministers and I grew up hearing about Jesus and accepted Him when I was very young. As I grew, I had a lot of doubts and questions but decided to follow Christ during my teenage years and 20s. During that time, I had many experiences with God and felt His presence and power in my life. When I turned 30, I backslid and allowed my doubts and sinful nature to destroy my life. After a year, I returned to God like the prodigal son did. I am now happily married to a loving husband and have wonderful children. I still have a lot of questions and sometimes I wonder if God is real, if the Bible is reliable, if Jesus really existed and resurrected. Please pray for me. I want to be useful in God's Kingdom.

[@nnekayewande5835]

Keep praying and ask God to reveal himself to you.

[@livingsimplywithcj7878]

@@nnekayewande5835 thank you. I will

[@livingsimplywithcj7878]

@@nnekayewande5835 thank you. I will.

[@fredflinstone2272]

I had doubts after a few years of my conversion and concluded that Christianity "worked" for other people but not for me.... The truth was I was not instructed in the doctrines of the faith, primarily the doctrine of sin. I read Ray comforts book, "Hell's best kept secret" And I realized it's really all about Jesus and not me and not man. It's about my broken relationship with God and that Jesus blood is the only covering. Never had doubts again - doesn't matter what man does. Praise the Lord for that perfect precious blood of Jesus. By the way, one can't leave their faith. The Bible is clear perhaps they were never really a part. Sorry I'm not so empathetic.

[@nowyouknowrealestate5703]

I have to agree with you. My life verse is Jude 24 & 25. The Lord gave it to me one day, decades ago, when I was contemplating “falling away” and “will I find faith on the earth.” It was seared into mind heart- “This is your life verse.” I thought it was great verses but I thought “Life verse? Naw, I will never leave Him.” That was decades ago. I now love and prize those verses! It’s all about Jesus. In my wavering, He has kept me! And He keeps all that are His. Even Paul wrote “They went out from us because they were not of us.” Maybe this author wasn’t of Him and maybe one day he’ll write another book about what a, not just saving Lord we have, but also keeping! We can’t judge it but so much. God knows those that are His. In the meantime, I have empathy and prayers for those lost or wondering. It’s not a peaceful place to be. PS I love Ray Comfort and read that book also.

[@wacerahchege8]

At the beginning of the video. They happened to say that he started to preach at a very young age. As for me, I said; nor wonder. He was probably a good communicator, likeable, let's say, he had, if not all, most of the qualities that a public speaker requires. But he was never truly converted.

[@Claire5020GEN]

Hebrews 5:8 says that Jesus learned obedience through the things that He suffered. Most of that suffering was caused by people who genuinely thought they were pleasing God. The most hurtful experiences in our lives are caused by our closest companions, other Christians and family members. Don't deny Christ--- learn obedience through it all. Thanks for this great conversation.

[@shelteredsparrow2736]

I love how compassionate you are being as you walk this man’s pain. The sad thing about his story are this an ongoing story and rather than focusing in on biting sheep there is a shepherd that has counted his tears. I have PTSD due to church abuse. The verse “I have not given you a spirit of fear…” is tough to swallow with PTSD. I hold on to the promise that he who began a good work in me will carry it to completion.” For me that is a promise God will keep in heaven. My heart breaks for this man. He is really missing out

[@cecilleolea1563]

Indeed very sad

[@bethl]

I’m sorry for your heartbreak.

[@Dangerous_123-f1j]

Same happened to me. Once when we prey to god in our need and if God does not answer the way we want, it will feel like a big brick falling on our head for believing an imaginary God.

[@shelteredsparrow2736]

@@bethl thank you

[@shelteredsparrow2736]

@@Dangerous_123-f1j it definitely can feel that way. It is wonderful to know that, no matter what our feelings say, God is truly there for us.

[@samkateokeke7749]

Hearing the audible voice of Jesus has been my staying power over the years. Coming from an orthodox Christian background I NEVER EVER heard the audible of Jesus even though attended church until I came into a personal intimate relationship with Him. I took questions that bothered me to Him in faith, not in doubt and He audibly answered me quoting scriptures to me from His Written Word- the Bible. Today all the voices, all the books in the world, the hypocrisies, offences, attacks...etc that come against my faith in Jesus as the Messiah will not make me forget those precious experiences of hearing the voice of my Shepherd and I know He will keep and uphold me till the very end. I pray that Tim Sledge will convert again from humanism back to our Saviour and Lord Jesus because like His disciples asked, if we leave Him to whom shall we go? He alone has the Word of eternal life. Humanism does not and cannot answer our questions regarding a world that is under Satan's siege. I have run into Christ and am hidden in Him in God. May I never run out for whatever reason, no matter how legitimate. So help me God. Amen.

[@willienandi6378]

How would you explain Hebrews 6:4-6?

[@samkateokeke7749]

@@willienandi6378 Hebrews 6: 4-6 is a terrifying scripture, in all honesty. But I have always loved these words of Jesus: " He that comes to me I shall in no wise cast out" I think it gives even the worst backslider hope and courage to return back to the Saviour he bid goodbye to when he eventually comes back to his senses again like the prodigal son did. I do believe so much in the cleansing power in the blood of Jesus.

[@joycethomas3549]

Amen! Very well put. Thanks for sharing 🙏🏽

[@devondeswardt6239]

What a beautiful response to a truly tragic story… thank you for sharing, Prof

[@SeanMcDowell]

You bet!

[@beekind6014]

Thank you both for not being afraid to review this man's book. I felt so sad for him when that pastor said he was "permanently broken", that was so wrong, the opposite of the mercy that Jesus showed to everyone. Thank you both for being so genuine, and for talking about mercy; I grew up Catholic and for all of the church's problems I feel that the best thing I learned was mercy and compassion, though I regret that when I was younger I didn't always give it as I should have, God forgive me.

[@ericpeterson8732]

I won't lie. As a teen, Bart Campolo gave a talk at a youth conference and it was inspiring. So when I heard he left Christianity, it hurt me as someone I looked up to. But then I realized I didn't really know him and his abandonment of Christ did not have anything to do with me. That's between Bart and Jesus. It's still sad, though.

[@mawmawvee]

Now he is free to have the chance to believe, or not. I pray he will hear God calling to him and say yes to that. It's not God Who needs us and our salvation; it is we who need God and salvation.

[@gerriplourde1517]

Its what happens when we are not accountable to one another

[@joycethomas3549]

I know! It sometimes hurt when we hear things of that nature as it goes to show you have a good heart. Guess what!Jesus grieves too because He desires all to be saved so you are like your Father and your Saviour Jesus Christ. We continue to pray for people in such situations of confusion,dilemma and confusion in Jesus Name!👏🏾🙏🏽🙌🏼🔥❤️

[@kellywright9791]

I appreciate your insights on this subject. Your approach to difficult questions is comforting.

[@zephyr-117sdropzone8]

All I'll say is I never felt anything in Church. I experienced God in the most incredible ways when I was alone, in communion in the darkness at night. That is where I met him and continue to do. If you are basing your faith even 1% on church or fellow christians, you will fail.

[@harryfrance]

That is all well and good brother but we are called and commanded to meet with other believers regularly in the bible

[@yaminatoday1151]

@LaymanScribe But "church" are people, whom God died for, just as He died for you. And He asks that we love the "church" partly because it's easy to do church alone, but it requires faith and working through our sins to love the other people Jesus died for.

[@Jesus-The-Everlasting-Father]

Jesus Christ revealed to me in my room. I got on my knees and asked Him if He was real. He came to me on a vision dying on the Cross, that was my born again moment. After my salvation, i became lukewarm for so many years. Go to Church whenever i felt like it. Then in 2020, i decided to re-dedicate my life to Jesus, i said "I will re-dedicate my life to you again Lord". On my first Sunday of my re-dedicating my life back to Jesus, boooooom, the Holy Spirit manifested in me thru weeping that comes my belly. I am not an emotional person, but when i praise and worship Jesus in spirit and Truth, i couldn't stop my weeping that people sitting next to me would wonder what is happening to me why i cried so much, i couldn't help it, the weeping was coming from inside of me. Then the next Sunday, then every Sunday. The Holy spirit kept manifesting to me whenever i praise and worship him in spirit and truth in my car, in Church, in my bedroom. But the most is in Church. When i arrive at the Church early, i'd be alone and nobody just yet in the pews. I would start praying right away, deep prayer, remembering when the moment i had my salvation occurred, the weeping starts, like non-stop weeping. I don't even pray for other things, i just praise and worship my God and my tears are like faucet. I really don't understand why i weep whenever i have the holy spirit manifesting in me instead of speaking in tongues. Because of my weeping, i would strategically sit in a very secluded part of the Church in which nobody would be sitting next to me. I never missed Church ever since.

[@Bythegraceofgod1646]

Christ alone must be our hope, but all Christians are called to belong to the body of Christ. We need one another. The New Testament wouldn’t exist if it taught the theology you’ve shared here. In love with hope of pointing you to truth, dear brother, I hope you will reconsider your conclusions here and pray for the Spirit to overcome any lie in your current convictions. Don’t go to the church closest to your house but go to the church closest to the Word of God. I suggest checking if you can find a PCA church near you, or another reformed, confessional church. ❤

[@theelizabethan1]

And there are great blessings, insights, even ecstatic experiences to be gained in a local corporate body.....To miss these is to miss an integral opportunity, and means, of spiritual growth. Our absence means we deprive others "in The Body" of our unique spiritual gifts. And we miss what others' gifts can offer us as fellow believers.

[@waynezimmer1288]

Thank you so much for addressing these questions head on. It means a lot to me!

[@Anntea9699]

This was a WONDERFUL discussion. Well stated observations and insights, articulate, thoughtful! Thank you BOTH. I really especially appreciated the charge and encouragement that we as Christians need to take the inner look more often and focus on the plank in our own eye. I think pastoring a church can be one of he hardest jobs. You and your family live life in a fish bowl and pastors and families are often held to an impossible standard. No wonder there's so much disillusionment and burn out among pastors. Anyway, GREAT discussion. Thank you again!

[@curious011]

Yes it's easy to talk about others but can they shine that light on themselves...oh wait....they Love Jesus.. what a crock.

[@boveega7]

I love this dialogue. Excellent advice.

[@sheiladale6802]

I relate in so many ways. Saw what happened to my father at his age if 16. Then around the same age my church secretary actually slapped me in the face because I wanted an appointment with pastor to talk about the list of do’s and don’t’s for us teenagers. Thankfully I realized this was a trap of the enemy to get me away from my faith… through the years I’ve seen how the enemy uses these traumatic experiences to cause doubt and eventually turning away from our faith. I’m seeing it today in my grandchildren. Same tactics, different situations.

[@GinUwin]

I’ve never doubted my faith.. Yet I’ve doubted the Leader of my church more and more everyday . Discernment is one of God’s greatest gifts.. 🙏🙏

[@trevorsoh2130]

I agree with your thoughts and discernment and reading tone and substance of the teaching is very important - and finding the right church for you does require some exploration. I think there also a wider picture worth considering - As a younger Christian I took so much of church life for granted - and I feel the expectation we place on church pastors is enormous - the amount of time and energy needed to deliver what essentially is a long Ted talk 3-4 times a month is ALot to ask of anyone - people who do Ted talks plan for months to prepare one message. Not only that - but the bible has so much to unpack - requires historical lingual emotion philosophical understanding - you have to talk from the heart - the message must appeal to your intellect and emotions - and it’s messages can be challenging to accept - and delivered by a pastor who also has to manage their own family life and challenges. Whether they feel healthy strong or fully up to it - they have to go on stage and deliver. That is pretty extreme expectation. They do it because they are so committed to serving God. And in so many cases the income is low! the Pastors I know - they work so hard! And we take that for granted and often just lean into that asymmetrical relationship. Whereas in the early church people literally and financially bound each other as a family - the church were the people not the building - they rewired their entire lives around living in this new communion with God. For sure there were church leaders but I think the expectations of leaders is just so high and we making these church’s mirror celebrity culture - the culture of elevating people to impossible positions that we then “follow” - we are all sinners. So are pastors sinless? Of course not. Are they born again - supernaturally transformed - and committed to helping us walk this journey - and living in the power of the Holy Spirit and walking humbly with god and accepting our -‘-‘and their own brokenness in our inability to appreciate them - then that’s a leader I’ll appreciate. That’s what our pastor stands for and I greatly greatly appreciate him.

[@captaingenius-o1c]

@@fredthe47th Yeah I do not trust pastors....too many are small people who have a Napoleonic complex for power.....

[@skiddburns8664]

I expect people to fail. Even the most spiritual people fail ultimately. There is only one who has walked perfectly. Him I follow.

[@METVWETV]

​@@captaingenius-o1c If you said that about a race of people you'd rightly be called a Racist. Likewise, to paint "ALL" of one profession this or that, is equally as foolish

[@Rayblondie]

The church is more body ministry rather than one person although we do need leaders.

[@judygranberg4018]

One thing i felt lacking at the end of this conversation ( which did have many great insights) was the call to prayer for Tim ( or even actually praying for him)-- that God would continue to work in His life, and call him back. Jesus' prayer for Peter has always been an encouragement for me-- we fail, we doubt, but when come back, can strengthen others. Never give up hope for him.

[@cleofewhite5551]

Let us pray for Tim...

[@cameronashton6987]

That's extremely sad. At one point many followers left Jesus one day, due to misunderstanding one of his teachings, and he asked his disciples, "Will you leave me, too?" Peter replied, "To whom would we go? You have the words of eternal life."

[@seejay6360]

Life gets crazy, I've gone through a lot myself and know those who have gone through worse. It's terrible to then see others seemingly depart from the faith (although we can never know if its final & permanent... they could return) but it can definitely be jarring. Every single time I've even given thought to it myself, the first thing I'm reminded of is Peter's response to Jesus when he asked, "Do you want to go away as well?" and Peter just says, "Lord to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." There is nobody else. There is no other system, belief, etc. There is only Jesus. I notice that whenever someone departs, they don't throw away "religion" altogether, they just adopt a new one, even if they don't call it that. The problem is that whatever their new beliefs are, they pale in comparison to the answers Jesus provides for the trials of this life. He clearly cares for us when He gave up His throne to come and suffer with us and for us, on our behalf. So I know that He cares, and while I do not know what tomorrow holds, I know who holds tomorrow... and His character makes plain to see that he his trustworthy despite whatever doubts/fears/feelings I may have.

[@infomercialguy]

I really love how you write. It's so good to remember what Peter said. Thanks! Can I ask you a silly question? Unrelated. Its political. I do not like trump. At all. So many Christians overlook his soul because they want gop policy. Some have pitchfork in hands. Holler than though attitude about abortion. (For the record I don't think anyone enjoys abortion or desires it but I do think there is a place for it). Anywhose, just wonder your thoughts because I value your words. And your words reflect a great heart and mind. Thanks

[@hpetterson2265]

Yes and amen.

[@mawmawvee]

@@infomercialguy I really hate politics! I hate that politicians play politics with our lives and well-being. I will stick with Jesus.

[@kevinrees698]

@@infomercialguy There are many evangelical Christians who despise the former President. Kings, Presidents, and other political leaders have tried (with varying degrees of success) to coopt the Christian church and use it to further their own ends for about 2000 years. Former President Trump was fairly effective using that tactic for the past 6-8 years. With the passage of time, and a clearer historical perspective, I think the truth regarding Trump and his relationship to true faith will become clear. There will be many repenting once this perspective becomes clear.

[@infomercialguy]

​@@kevinrees698@kevinrees698 thank you. So well said. You eloquently spoke my inner thoughts. And then some ! Appreciate it greatly.

[@denvaz68]

“Leave no man behind” is something the body of Christ needs to learn 🤲🏻

[@annmathew1411]

I have been hurt deeply especially in church. But i come to worship my jesus n for fellowship. I will never leave my Jesus till my last breath because Holy Spirit works in me.

[@Little_Muskrat13]

Sean, I'm 66 years of age. I've been a fan of your dad since he penned, " Evidence that demands a verdict." However, that being said, I think and believe that you're the best apologist, Bible instructor, and display a tremendous amount of integrity, honesty, and sincerity, ( something which is sorely lacking in this nation ), and IMHO, you are now America's pastor, akin to R.A. Torrey, Dwight Moody, and Charles Stanley. May God continue to bless you and yours. ✝️❤️👍👍

[@SeanMcDowell]

You’re too kind, thanks for the encouragement! I’m glad Evidence was so helpful.

[@teresitaestrella4484]

Sad feeling for this Pastor who leaves his faith to our Lord Jesus, the Son of the Almighty God, offer His Life for the world because of His love for us. May he realize to come back to his faith.🙏🙏🙏

[@jklawson08]

This was a great conversation. It is sad we see a lot of these deconstruction stories. However, I want to thank you for the comment about the 38:30 mark in regards to the question he posed from page 391 of the book. Your comment is something that we should be sharing more often. Choice was given, will we choose to humble ourselves before our creator and choose to live with Him

[@lizwinters7062]

I pray you find deliverance for your unforgiveness!! The church is God's kindergarten we're all learning to play together. I have had to be delivered from unforgiveness more than once!

[@polokucoch8112]

So it's all human failings, including Tim, that he talks about. GOD is faithful and keeps his promises in CHRIST. We should continue to pray for Tim and all of us who are fallen, including me.

[@songbird1920]

❤

[@roxiejohnson6813]

Thank you for this insightful program. It is full of grace and wisdom for me, as a mom.