Is One Page Rules BETTER Than 40K? 3D Printing is CHANGING the Hobby! A Rant with Warboss Fitz!

[@erikb214]

The fact that I can 3d print any army I want for OPR and that for $10 a month I get sweet units, the full rules and every update, get straight forward gameplay that’s fun and engaging and can play multiple games in a night vs maybe not even finishing one game, and I’m saving literally hundreds of dollars on a great miniature war game sold me

[@akirakasinata-fk8qy]

"If you've ever left the cinema or turned from the TV screen, wishing that you could invent your own death-stars, storm-troopers, whirling ornithopters and wild-eyed heroes then this is for you. Warhammer 40,000 is the game that lets you create all kinds of exciting, futuristic adventures on the tabletop. You will need a few models, a little scenery, and the odd accessory such as dice and a ruler - but most importantly you will need a smattering of creative genius. The fact you are reading this is a sure indication you are eminently qualified on that score." Rogue Trader 1987 So very, very different from present game...

[@akirakasinata-fk8qy]

@@phandaal to me the original Warhammer game, like the same era d&d, felt like the place where different mythologies, both old and new, met and reconciled their differences. It was the place where Arthurian knights could finally face off against Bramstolker's Dracula or something from the Cthulhu mythos. Warhammer's connection to the world around it was a major part of its appeal, and it's a bit galling these days to be faced with an endless array of bizarre creations I've never seen before and will never see again outside the game.

[@101Mant]

​@@akirakasinata-fk8qyI think it needed to find it'ys own identity and not just being Warhammer Fantasy in space meets pop culture sci-fi. I'm not so keen on how seriously the game sometimes takes itself or how serious some fans are about it. The setting was supposed to be so big it could basically fit anything but as it's got more detailed it feels like that freedom has got pushed out. Everything feels more standardised and uniform.

[@darko-man8549]

Saving this for the GW shills

[@dustinhollis]

The scale was vastly different. It was a small unit game. More like Mordheim than Warhammer massive Armies is now. All in pursuit of MORE MORE MORE!

[@darko-man8549]

@@dustinhollis thing is: Mordheim in 40k was what it began as, now it's jsut "mini 40k to sell more to 40k"

[@zoddbaratheon9231]

When i first started printing i printed a single sexier assassin for a friend who was a Real pureist, hunting ebay for deals, multiple armies, only played fully painted models etc... he bought a printer 2 weeks later. Now he blames me for his lack of storage space and has a horde of unpainted points that he shamefully wields

[@margaretwood152]

▶22:12 "Games Workshop (Mngr's?) Knows things i.e. can pick out 3D•Printed Models" )....but apparently WHITE DWARF Magazine Editors & higher ups *_Can't._*_ (* e.g. they unknowingly featured an _All _*_3D Printed_*_ 30K Army_ in their 2019 Edition......without knowing: guy came out 3 years later & said as much) _" All War Is Done By __*_Deception. "_* ~ Sun Tzu " *History is a **_*LlE_*_ agreed upon. "_ ~ Alan Dulles ( CIA Director under J•F•K )

[@zoddbaratheon9231]

@@margaretwood152 on one hand i agree with you that for most cases i dont think a manager could tell (or care enough) for some files, but the other just thinks why would to go to a GW over a LGS? and the armies i print you can tell there is influence and wysiwyg, im rocking samurai space marines, i am not trying to fool anyone they are gw plastic, they look so soo much better

[@Rex73777]

Imagine the world where you and your friend group are getting into wargaming for the first time. However, in this world rather than going down to the local GW shop to buy a combat patrol. You and your buddies chip in on a 3-D printer. You all start an escalation league where you start printing out units for each of your armies. Eventually, when you have your full sized army at 2000 points. Each of you and your friends will have spent a couple hundred dollars total. And your next army will be a fraction of that. This is the ideal future of the hobby.

[@RazielLordOfSecrets]

Don't need to watch, the answer is yes.

[@ivarisalie8759]

Didn't know he asked if 3d printing is saving the hobby

[@RazielLordOfSecrets]

@@ivarisalie8759 i think its more than just 3d printing. people are moving to other companies. Mantic and Warlolrd are getting more popular.

[@calebhebert2733]

Based

[@LeeWade-l4c]

Without question 40k rules suck

[@rungunninja1289]

Honestly I wouldn’t say it breaks it so much as gw really shot themselves in the foot with trying to monetize rules changes and have a play test team that clearly just needs to redo game design half way the last two editions

[@CruentusV]

printing is merely returning the community back to a much earlier time when the hobby was healthier and had choices. competition is a funny thing. tsr learned this with regard to its main IP more than twenty years ago. GW needs that lesson reminded to them, especially now...

[@murrayrothbardgaming7567]

The Printing will stop when the prices go down and BS from GW Stops

[@paulmacleod3559]

The plastic crack cartes monopolyl is broken! The Omnissiah and Deus ex Machina demands it!

[@Jokreher]

I print and buy. I may have a collection problem, but I think that might be a lot of us. I’ve played more OPR than I have 40K, but I’m not sure which I prefer. As for the future of the hobby, I think printing will become the norm while plastics will be the deeper niche.

[@richardowen808]

I only build & paint in the hobby at the moment, but I'm thinking of tentatively dipping my toe into the gaming side of it. Would OPR suit me just right?

[@WarbossFitz]

if your just starting out OPR is a great place to wade into the pool of wargaming

[@Deefry]

The vast majority of Etsy postings only show the STLs, alas. However if you know the third party that makes the sculpt (e.g. StationForge or Mekka for Orcs) you can get a good idea of the quality to expect.

[@oblivionfan345Tony]

Dinosaurs with lasers > Rats with lasers

[@tatoferret3167]

I'm a real convert to printing, it allows me to get some really great Space Wolves models that cost cents each (that I can then airbrush). It'll never replace the true tactile hobby joy of kitbashing and scratch building for me. It's the one thing still keeping me buying GW's kits too. But new rules removing options and making everyone have the same gear (or a flat-out optimal loadout thanks to set points), why not just print the exact mini you need? The outlying and consumable costs for resin can seem daunting, but living in NZ I got a full entry-level setup (including 5 litres of resin which gave me countless minis and a warhound) for the price of 1.5 leviathan boxes. As a filthy zen-less airbrusher I already have a good mask and vinyl gloves. Only real ongoing cost is IPA.

[@jasonwright6657]

I can't speak to OPR vs 40K - I haven't played enough of either system to give a meaningful answer. But 3-d printing is largely here. If you're printing pre-supported files, it feels like it mostly just reads in the file and outputs joy. Supporting things is the fiddly part, but most of the folks putting out models provide you with supports. It's been nearly a year since I bought a new GW model. And the options that 3-d printing provides are amazing. I'm printing a Thunderhawk - the old model from the 90's for my Grey Knights. I'm assembling using the original instructions, someone just scanned all the parts. My friend who got me into the hobby had lost interest over the past few months but seeing my progress on my gunship has brought him back around a bit so I'm printing the bits for him as well! I'd say it's a definite threat to GW now.

[@House-Atreides]

3d printing is hands-down the way to play. Minimize the $$ and maximize the minis.

[@xRaptorScreamx]

For those that say there aren't enough rules, basic 1 page rules is just the overall quick core rules, there's a doc with 14-15 pages of rules, and there's a paid book with advanced rules, missions and whole lot other things

[@malcire]

I haven't gotten around to getting a resin printer (or correctly calibrating my Ender 3). But 3d printing is definitely a decent way to go. Unfortunately I have way to much official Crack that needs painted and assembled. So while I would love to do some nice resin printed models, I also realize my pile will grow. Would be nice for basing, though. I just don't think I can keep from printing multiple Imperial/Chaos Knights; and would still need a fume set up for the Resin.

[@MrGeneralPB]

thank you for inviting warboss! it was awesome!

[@Dominik189]

I restarted at 10th edition, bought a starter box, then about two months later bought a 3D printer.

[@wong40k42]

I think this is less of a case of OPR being that much better as to GW's current ROI is just too bad for your average hobbyist. Their insane pricing, anti consumer tactics, constant shifting meta and now lore twisting are just one factor after another that pushes fans away. I went from to buying tonnes of GW to barely three boxes a year and totally stopped playing.

[@BrettBallanger]

I like what OPR is trying to do. I've been a patron for years. I think they could be huge if they get some good writing to work with their Quest line of stuff. They do feel a bit bland although I think their stuff is getting more unique. Auspex Tactics did a break down of GW's profit margins. They could easily cut prices by 30 - 60% and still turn a profit. They have built a very popular setting with hobbyists committed to the lore and system. Their game systems are clunky and the codex are overpriced. They should advance the lore a bit. I would love to see an Earth Unification Wars series with custom Thunder Warriors. They could also do some new stuff in Imperium Nihilus. I'd love to see a new non-chaos, non-Imperium human faction (maybe just expand on squats). The main challenge with 3d printing is the skill and production space needed to do it. Resin is toxic and there isn't always really great warnings. I don't think parents are going to let their teenager setup a 3d printer whereas with plastic boxes a parent can buy their child a starter box and some paints for the same entry costs. FDM is showing real potential with resin level quality in the last few years. If hobby stores could license with creators I think things would just explode.

[@DomesticTourist001]

I use combat patrol tournaments at stores to recruit players to play 40k in my garage. I also print them custom armies that are 25% the cost of GW.

[@hubertcumberdale6404]

I have probably close to 5000 pts of space marines. I really enjoy collecting, building and painting. But 100% the constant rule changes and the staggering of rule releases keep me from playing proper 40K.

[@calebhebert2733]

Same

[@Shiro.1291]

Glad i was the first of my friends who led everyone into tabletop games, as like this everybody plays one page rules

[@tomfox810]

I'd like to try 3d printing but I feel I don't have the time plus I can't really put all that effort / space for one more hobby. I prefer to buy minis at the store (even at that price) that are perfect and just need assembly and painting. I don't have time for all of it.

[@oblivionfan345Tony]

People will ALWAYS choose convenience over cost. So long as GW sells models that just need assembly and painting people will happily pay 5x, 10x, 20x the cost of getting a printer and having to do a modicum of work themselves.

[@xRaptorScreamx]

or buy already printed models for half or 1/3 the cost

[@pokelogikx]

I tried printing one of the free minis from opr and it ended pretty poorly. Granted was trying to print out one of their murder robots but it would just give up half way through no matter how I did the supports, really bummed me out.

[@michaelsudsysutherland5353]

Aw yeah! Love me some OPR! Honestly, the only reason I still build a handful of grim dark miniatures these days... Sad, given how much I loved 40K in 4e, skipping everything until late picking up 8e briefly, when GW did what they do best (screw over players).

[@ivanoliveira8932]

If I had the choice, would you recommend OPR or an older edition of 40k? What are the pros and cons? (3rd or 5th ed for example)

[@horselats]

Wonder what the future of hobby shops is, when everyone can print? GW will just lean harder into media and licensing video games.

[@darealwhosane]

AoS is a better game then 40K. The prints I’m doing now are 1-1 copies of gw you wouldn’t even be able to tell the difference after painting

[@SergiOrtiz]

Please point me to a place where I can look for these 1 to 1

[@roblindsay3422]

Mars 2 Pro is a beast of a machine, mine is still going strong

[@eviljagtech]

I left supporting GW when they burnt the content creators for warhammer+ ,their latest decisions have not changed my mind.

[@fl1bble]

I would 100% 3D print warhammer minis because £40 for a box of 10 world eater bezerkers is ridiculous.

[@FrogWizard224]

40k was starting to get so boring for me and my first game of ORP(rebel guerillas v Elven Jesters) was like a douse of cold water, it hit all the boxes and was so much more fun and engaging.

[@KAGEMUSHA-sb3mt]

❤ Fitz

[@jimdepool]

I would buy a warhammer kit each payday if they were all 30usd, as is i go to the lgs and i am physically repulsed by the prices.

[@terrainaholic]

Hey Buddy:)!!!!! I find you on OTHER peoples channels LOL:)!!!!

[@thoughtengine]

How is 3D printing really changing the hobby in a way that having hundreds of indie alternatives available doesn't?

[@bryanvestal3923]

All my old world armies are now 3d printed.

[@margaretwood152]

▶22:11 "Games Workshop (Mngr's?) Knows things i.e. can pick out 3D•Printed Models" )....but apparently WHITE DWARF Magazine Editors & higher ups *_Can't._*_ (* e.g. they unknowingly featured an _All _*_3D Printed_*_ 30K Army_ in their 2019 Edition....again.....without knowing: guy came out 3 years later & said as much) _" All War Is Done By __*_Deception. "_* ~ Sun Tzu " *History is a **_*LlE_*_ agreed upon. "_ ~ Alan Dulles ( CIA Director under J•F•K• )

[@darko-man8549]

41:56 imagine a world where they did PDF rules then charged for their books with lore 😂 Imagine that.

[@papab34r]

it takes a bit of practice and mistakes getting into 3d printing and unfortunately having uncured resin ooze out of left over pockets, its just a valuable lesson anyone in the hobby will have to learn, as well as failed prints, spills and what not, but overall getting to print whatever you want for a negligent cost once the printer is bought is great, also there are so many talented people making all sorts of 3d models so you can get unique models that purist players could only dream of kitbashing into. Also there are plenty of models out there that are better than anything GW produce. atleast in my humble opinion.

[@jaynexus1639]

Yeah honestly it's a lot harder than people talk about. I got rid of my resin printer because it was such a time and knowledge investment that I just didn't feel like I wanted to take on. Not to mention that you need to take the resin seriously. This stuff is no joke and you don't want to be exposed to it long term. I feel like a lot of people downplay the danger part of this. Just because resin isn't smelly doesn't mean it isn't toxic.

[@papab34r]

@@jaynexus1639 yes, calibrating the machine can be a bother as well, as well as keeping check that it runs within the temperature range that you want. But I think its worth it regardless, but you have to have an interest in it by itself, atleast thats what I think, otherwise its simply cheaper buying the service from someone. As for the toxicity, I believe it depends on what resin you use as certain ones such as craft resin are a lot more toxic then others, I doubt any of them are healthy, but I have gotten some in my eye of all places and I didnt die from it, still I wouldnt buy one if I didnt have a well ventilated place to store and run it.

[@CharlesRichelieu-hv7sn]

3D printing is breaking the hobby, and that's good.

[@nobobonobo]

It's chewsday innit

[@calebhebert2733]

Oi mate!

[@darko-man8549]

41:04 this is how I feel about the Imperial Agents codex. It’s a f-ing copy pasta, rushed codex, done just to have a reason for 40k to buy kill teams and off DW. It was terrible. But I blame the studio not the writers.

[@DrNitroGecko]

There should be a link to the other channel in the description...

[@MarcinObuchowski]

No hate from my part, I'm sure OPR is cool. But I know few people who play it and that's maybe an odd game every 3 months. Is it more succesful in UK and other countries?

[@orinocowomble1489]

I think it is still a niche game that is not widely known. There seems to be a fair bit of dislike for it in the 40k circles because it is a rip off of 40k or they equate simple rules with a lack of depth. It is a shame too many people equate GW being the hobby as they are missing out on so many different games.

[@House-Atreides]

Cheers to OPR! Cheers to breaking the GW stranglehold on our hobby!

[@SuperDuperHappyTime]

3D Printing is probably 2 years out. I’ve seen some really good sculpts that can be done on FDM with minimal moldlines, I’m personally waiting for it to be perfected, or we get efficient colors, before I hitch my wagon. Resin looks great now, it’s the issues with safe setup and environmental hazards that says it’s a no go. As for GW, they ABSOLUTELY need to get their public facing video media off the ground, and it needs to be done flawlessly the FIRST time. I 100% believe you can get that with Cavill in charge of the project, even if they are going to swallow the poison pill with their audience that is femarines. If they don’t, the project is likely dead among the right-leaning hardcore-40K fans, and likely to be an unsuccessful project (not enough profit, regardless of how good the show is). There are not enough left-leaning hardcore-40K fans to make up the difference, regardless of how much power Reddit Mods think they have over the online community discourse.

[@jaynexus1639]

Before anyone buys a printer READ THIS. I see a vid on KZbin. Printing custom models. I'm interested and buy a Saturn 2 printer. 600 bucks came with wash station and UV curing light. Put it in office near window with a fan. Oops those fumes leak out to my main hallway. I google dangers of resin fumes. You can't mess with this stuff even if it has no odor. So I move it to the garage. Okay now the entire garage is unusable without a respirator when I'm printing. Great... so now I look into options. I see a grow tent would work. I commit to it and purchase a used grow tent for 1600 bucks. It comes with ventilation that I hand install by porting it out of an air duct in my garage. Pain in the ass tbh. I start finally printing. Fail after fail. I can't get this to work. I watch a video on slicing. It kinda helps but half my plate fails. I push through and try to use files that are printing. Now I find out about the cleanup portion of 3d printing. Uncured resin requires gloves and it's messy. You will spill it occasionally on your work desk or on the printer and you will have to clean it off. The towels you clean it with CANNOT be thrown in the trash. They either have to be cured or disposed of at chemical waste facilities. That goes the same for your gloves or wet rags you use to cleanup your station. Finally printing, model sticks to film vat and tears it. I buy replacement film but I fail to install it with the proper slack and end up having to buy an entire new vat for 80 bucks with it installed properly. Print again for months. Success rate is 40% and I can't get the big models to not have fails. Thermostat, heaters, coolers, I invest another 1k in temp sensors so the grow house has the right temp for cold days as I read that's an issue. Still fail most prints. Rip down grow house sell it and shove my printer into my junk drawer for it to never be used again. Good riddance I blew near 3k on this project in vain and I'd gladly just pay a professional a premium for what I want.

[@Wolf359inc]

That a crappy experience. Mine was very similar, with my first resin printer, because I didn’t know enough about it. This is my story with my second resin printer, after my first broke down, and I was unable to find replacement parts, due to the company going bust…: . Research 3D printing in resin, after almost a decade of FDM printing, using PLA plastic; . Read articles, watch videos, and basically learn as much as I can about resin printing, before purchasing printer; . Identify resin printer that suits my needs (printing miniatures and/ or clear bases, and greebles for FDM printed vehicles); . Identify least-toxic resin, that still produces great detail; . Purchase printer, and wash machine, when desired printer goes on sale; . Purchase preferred resin, which also happens to be made locally, so it is both cheaper, and safer to use; . Purchase ResinAway, instead of IPA, for cleaning up miniatures; . Purchase disposable Nitrile gloves to wear, when handling resin; . Purchase plastic mats, which are placed on every surface that could conceivably end up with resin on them; . Purchase inexpensive ultrasonic cleaner, to pre-clean prints, with ResinAway; . Purchase second container, for wash and cure station; . Fill one container with ResinAway, the other with tap water; . Print test model provided with printer, to ensure it works; . Print numerous exposure tests*, and then torture tests, to identify the best slicer settings, for every bottle of resin purchased; . Now printer is dialled in, start printing things; . Printed items get six minutes in the ultrasonic cleaner, and three minutes in the ResinAway. Then three minutes in water; . Remove supports; . Cure items for ten minutes; . Print more items. I spent around $800AUD on setup, and regularly spend $100AUD on resin, and consumables (every six to eight weeks, when I am printing lots of models). I have printed over 10,000 points worth of OPR minis, to date. The only time I have had failed prints, is when I have done something stupid, like forgetting to tighten the knot for the build plate, or not stirring resin that has been left sitting in the tray for a while. A regular maintenance schedule is desirable - make sure your build plate is free from dried resin, and there are no hard/ semi-cured “floaties” in your resin, or you will end up with constant failed prints, as the plate cannot make contact with the FEP. Regarding uncured waste, get a bunch of disposable foil baking trays. Grab the waste, spread it over a tray, and leave it out in sunlight for a few days. It will be cured, and is then safe to throw away in your regular waste. Regarding toxins, I use two of those “purifiers” AnyCubic sell. They don’t do the best job, but it is better than nothing. I also have an extractor fan in the window, to refresh the air in the room. You could go so far as to vent the printing odours outside, via a hose extraction system, but that is a bit extreme. There are several good resins out there, which have little to no toxins, and still produce suitably detailed prints. Cheers, * Anycubic printers have a brilliant RERF test, which prints eight identical items on a single build plate, each at different exposure levels, to allow you to quickly find a good base for exposure times. Once you have the base, you can tinker with the slice settings, to get the best possible balance of print time, and detail.

[@jaynexus1639]

@@Wolf359inc Well done. You did a lot more pre work than I did. I'd imagine you and I would agree that this is not something you just jump into like what the speaker North was interviewing was saying. The amount of research you did alongside a careful approach is hardly just for the average Joe. It still is an enthusiast hobby not a casual one.

[@Wolf359inc]

@@jaynexus1639 yes, it is. But the payoff is well worth it, for me. Also, I am one of those people who takes things apart, to find out how they work, so I enjoy tinkering, doing test prints, etc. Resin printing almost qualifies as a hobby unto itself, and isn’t at the “plug and play” stage, and may well never be, as there are too many “moving parts”. I would suggest anyone considering taking up any form of 3D printing do some research first, and make sure it is something they are prepared to put the time into. Otherwise, they are opening themselves up for disappointment. :( Cheers,

[@twofarg0ne763]

Our group is made of up old retired IT guys. We completely disowned GW when they made that decision earlier this the year to go woke. We felt GW's decision to cave to pressure from Amazon to include woke lore no longer supported diehard fans who've been supporting GW for DECADES. We used to play in shops and in tourneys, but no more; we only play at home now. We design our own models, 3D print them, and make our own rule sets. We don't need GW to continue playing our hobby that we started in 1987.

The worst part of 40K is GW, the worst part of OPR is its fans...

[@ric1194]

3d printing will kill the hobby. Local game shops will disappear, we'll have no places left to actually go play and we will all be sat around at home with no where to play wanking with sad tears. If 3d printing does take over, we need GW to stay top dog, or other gaming companies, 3d prints can't become the norm because local game shops will go out of business.

[@orinocowomble1489]

If 3d printing becomes the norm the FLGS will need to evolve. Perhaps they might offer printing services or increase the space for gaming, etc. Where I live most gaming is done either at peoples homes or with clubs that hire a community hall for the day or evening. On a typical evening they might be two or three different game systems be played. Often they will run tournaments for various systems.

[@neverbows7363]

I won't buy anything from GW since the female custodes bs. I only buy used thinking of getting a printer..