Is Rust Converter Worth Using on a Steel Boat? Using Blue Steel in Our Bilge | Ch 5 E 98 |

Whether or not to use rust converters is quite the debate in the steel boat community. Some people claim (aggressively at that) that using rust converters will be the downfall of any steel boat, while others claim that it's a life saver. We decide to try our hand at using it in a few spots and take our chances....
What has been your experience with rust converters? Have you had any luck, or any bad experiences? Let us know in the comments! The more details the better :)
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Intro drone footage: Matt @ / sailingfloatingfreedom
SV Wind Gypsy's Channel: / @notankers
Music in this video:
Epidemic Sound

[@user-ln8fu2lx3x]

Hello from Victoria BC . Love the show .Doing my first sail on a friends boat this March a Dash 34 named Balderdash . Getting excited and watching sailing shows on KZbin .

[@WaywardLifeSailing]

Thanks for watching! That sounds like it’s going to be a fun trip!

[@robertfreeman2322]

I have used rust converter for my steel sailboat for many years. It all depends on the prep and it needs to go on pretty thick to make sure you cover it well. I have had to 2 coat it also a few times. It should go on thoroughly clean steel and steel that has been wire brushed well. I've always used corroseal rust converter and I'm sure they are all the same now as I believe the patent had expired and other manufacturers are using the same formula. My best results in the bilge have been with the WASSER moisture cure but its kind of a pain in the ass to work with and I found that if I clean up the spot well enough and do the corroseal converter then apply my 2 part primer, I usually get a good 5years before old rusty starts to show his head again. If it's going to be getting condensation like all steel bilges will, you'll be doing touch ups down the line. It just comes with having a steel boat. I wouldn't worry too much about it and you just want to nip it in the bud before it becomes a real big issue way down the line. If it's bubbled up and flaking that's not good, but if it's mostly mill scale looking( dusty rusty) then the converter will do fine. Cheers! You've come a long way! Looking good. Oh...and if it turns any other color then black you've got contamination.

[@WaywardLifeSailing]

Cool thanks for the tips! Much appreciated!

[@DrewN990]

Looks great! theres always going to be spots that you cant get perfect. I think the biggest thing moving forward is to keep the bilges 100% dry when back in the water. Get a dripless shaft seal or put a container under the stuffing box to catch the drips and make sure all hatches are watertight. You cant rely on a bilge pump to remove all water as they can never pick up the last inch or so. I keep a mop aboard and fully dry any water that gets into bilge asap. Glad the multitool trick came in handy 🤙

[@WaywardLifeSailing]

Yes good tips I think! Our biggest issues in the bilge are condensation. Do you have any tips for fixing that?

[@DrewN990]

@@WaywardLifeSailing sorry can't help you there I'm from Queensland Australia so don't really have any issues with condensation. Best bet is to just keep good access to all the known problem areas and monitor it. Most people just do the bare minimum to get sailing again but yours will be a new boat by the time you are done so I wouldn't worry too much.

[@DrewN990]

@@WaywardLifeSailing I was actually wandering why you put the spray foam back on as that seemed like it was the cause of a lot of the rust but I guess you really need some sort of insulation to stop the condensation in cold weather

[@WaywardLifeSailing]

the spray foam hasn't been the cause of any of the rust actually. anywhere that had proper spray foam has been completely free of rust. The only places with spray foam and issues are where there was a ton of moisture trapped in wood, or improper spray foam. and yes unfortunately a good insulation is a necessity up here @@DrewN990

[@shawnperry3900]

Great to see some forward progress! Getting excited to see her back in the water!!!

[@WaywardLifeSailing]

Yay!!

[@kptbillburkett8735]

It must of ben a dream or maybe I was watching the wrong channel, Or maybe I was just drunk .But I thought I saw a hand opening a porthole and there was another boat 🚢 and it was at a Marina too .😮 But I see it was all a dream . Ya'll are still fighting the rust monster. And it looks like you are starting to win 🏆. Thank You For another Great Video. I look forward to every video ya'll put out. Ya'll definitely getting closer to splash day. So until next time, Aloha from the Big Island of Hawaii! (KptBill) Needs to stay out of the Rum barrel. That way I want see Mysterious portholes and other Boats 🚢 at Mysterious marinas. Lol! I have to Admit that short you put out had me going Big Time. Lol

[@WaywardLifeSailing]

Hahaha thanks for watching! I hope you enjoyed the short even though it was the wrong boat

[@armslength2618]

By the way, I'd strip out all power and signal cabling and replace it with the proper conductor count and gauge of Teck-90. Even a run of armored fiber-optic as long as you're in there.

[@davidbamford4721]

I’ve used phosphoric acid (which will be the active component of BlueSteel) and found that the rust converter is jolly good. It will convert light rust, but not heavy flaky rust. That has to be removed. I would definitely advocate the use of rust converter for any steel structures.

[@davidbamford4721]

After applying the phosphoric acid rust converter, I would go ahead and paint, especially if you are using an epoxy paint as a primer, I think that you should be safe as you are depriving the iron of any oxygen, which, of course, it needs to form rust (iron oxide).

[@WaywardLifeSailing]

Yeah fingers crossed. Only time will tell!

[@user-gg6om8vp4f]

Good work guys my self I'm looking for a steel yacht I'm a professional industrial painter sandblasting outside and laser inside for rust removal. Make sure you keep an eye on your chemical windows for your coating. That means you have a certain amount of time after the first coat to do the second coat or you have to sand

[@davidpawley7022]

Hi, I,ve been owner of a 34 yo coreten steel boat. My boat is 96% free of any corrosion, my trouble spots have the following items in common, 1. Original paint disturbed, 2. its always the border where old paint is, that seems to be the trouble spot. 3 Hard to get at areas. Inside, corrosion is beneath wet areas like a leaky water tank, toilet shower area. But these areas are least often maybe every 5 years. Most troublesome in deck areas where access is poor, these areas lucky to get past 4 months. Have tried Oxylic acid, Garnet blasting, severe wire brushing, its always the fringe area. Not attempted with rust converter because my understand it won't work on fringe area of old paint. At the moment the hull has got several holes in it, bit distressing that, I put it on the hard for storage during our cyclone season, this damage was because I had not inspected areas that were covered in beautiful wood, really bit disgusted with the amount of work in bad moments feel the best to be done is repair the hull and put it on the market.

[@thebermudaangle9958]

🎉👍💫⚡Getting there you two! Soon...🎉🥂🍹🍻🦀🦞🦐🏖⛵⚓🥂🍹🎉

[@WaywardLifeSailing]

🤞🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@armslength2618]

The mandatory MSDS description of this 'Blue Steel Primer' indicates it is a 3% 'glycerite' of tannic (tea) acid (# 1401-55-4). That means weak organic tannic acid extracted and dissolved using a glycerol (weak hydroxyl groups) solution. On rust, the tannic acid gradually reacts with the top-most Fe203 producing porous (blue) ferric tannate. The glycerol assists in paints' adhesion to bare metal and has some some residual anti-corrosion properties. But I can't find any references indicating the quality of ferric tannate's adhesion to lower-surface metal or rust. The problems I'd have with this stuff is that the tannic acid is very much a weak organic acid, is not washed off after the treatment and sits there slowly reacting but decaying over months. And the ferric tannate is porous, not sealing out further water and oxygen ingress. The aggression of tannic acids on Fe2O3 appears limited to surface types of steel alloy, with submerged alloy structures less impacted by it. And who knows what extensive and expensive extraction and processing is used to create the 'correct' mix of all of the organics? In addition to the slow and shallow reaction compared to non-organic acids, the tannic acid is dissolved in glycerol which further slows and limits its deployment compared to an aqueous solution. If it was my steel boat I'd try to strip it for complete interior sand-blasting, treat the surfaces with phosphoric acid and a good rinse, aggressively dry it then apply a good marine epoxy paint system including appropriate primer. If I couldn't sand-blast the worst rusty surfaces, I'd physically scrape, sand and/or brush most rust off of those surfaces, then wash and brush those with diluted muratic acid (which is 30% hydrochloric acid) cut with DEF (urea). That acid reacts quickly and deeply with rust to form iron chloride that can be washed away. Then wash with baking soda solution to neutralize the acid, then clear-rinse it all and aggressively dry. For less intense rust, use phosphoric acid instead and wash. Then apply a good marine epoxy paint system including appropriate primer. Don't leave muriatic acid on too long or it will react directly with the steel, subjecting it to very fast corrosion if it ever gets wet again. And of course use good industrial breathing and contact protection.

[@christinaweinhold8882]

Thanks for the interesting advice! Your warning not to “ leave the acid on too long or it will react directly with the steel” refers to the phosphoric acid you mention two sentences before, doesn’t it?

[@armslength2618]

@@christinaweinhold8882 Nope, It refers to the muriatic acid. That acid is extremely aggressive which is why it works so well. It creates a solution with rust that can be washed away. Don't let it dry before it's thoroughly rinsed. Don't keep it on too long or the bare metal will react too. The phosphoric acid is less aggressive, but just enough to etch metal sufficiently for the correct paint to stick to it. That stuff is OK to etch metal with. And of course it creates solid iron phosphate from the rust. But don't let phosphoric solution dry either until it's thoroughly rinsed, or you'll get white powder that forms and will totally screw up a paint job.

[@NOTANKERS]

We missed seeing Max 😍unless he was camouflage in white with the paint:)

[@WaywardLifeSailing]

I’ll make sure to send u guys more videos so u don’t miss him so much in these onesn

[@tanyasoroka3314]

I don't have a steel boat but it's so interesting watching what you're going through. I sure hope you finish for this summer cruising. We will see you on the water!

[@WaywardLifeSailing]

It’s looking good right now! Fingers crossed!

[@Coyotehello]

Great progress. We love blue steel. Rust starts the moment you finish grinding or sanding. I am no professional but: We have found the same yellow 'stains' sometimes and came to the conclusion that it is the result of the few days between finishing to grind and the day we actually apply blue steel. we found that old Blue steel does not react as well as new one and if left in a cold environment blue steel is basically ruined, no hard fact about it just our experience so far. The good news is, mild steel does not absorb moisture. In cold weather even if the place is heated, the steel remains cold and you can get surface condensation. After the first coat blue steel isolate the metal so the second coat does little, if you see rust permeating from the coating I usually grind that area a little and then apply a second coat of blue steel so it can react with the metal.

[@WaywardLifeSailing]

Hmmm good to know. Thanks for the info!

[@Sailingon]

I had this issue when it was too cold for the rust converter to work. Mine was vactan but probably the same stuff as blue steel. I'm using phosphoric acid now and only in warmer weather, and getting much better results.

[@WaywardLifeSailing]

Hmmm that’s good to know. I didn’t think it was cold enough for conversion to be an issues but maybe I was wrong

[@armslength2618]

When significant rust starts on/in steel plate or sheet steel you can't get rid of it. You get thin stringers rooting down into the metal, and grinding those away or out is difficult to impossible. My guess is those follow the lines of manufacturing laminates or micro stress fractures, similar to pitting and chloride stress fractures that eventually disintegrate stainless steel. I've used chemical rust treatments for iron-based alloys on sheet metal and metal parts. Those were phosphoric acid based. Small amounts of rust can be converted to a less active compound to substantially slow down the spread of rust. But no treatment will turn oxidized metal back into steel or iron. You'd need a blast furnace, forging and tempering operation for that. From personal experience, the POR-15 product can be very effective, but not permanent. The vast majority of rust first has to be ground away so there's no visible surface rust, then washed to eliminate all oil and grease. Then a phosphoric acid solution has to be applied periodically for 15 minutes, keeping the surface wet with it. That etches the surface so paint can stick and it converts the tiny amount of residual rust into some more stable compound. It has to be washed away at the end of the treatment then the surface dried. Finally a moisture-cure urethane paint is applied over the surface to seal it from any chemicals and physical abrasion. It's a great system if prep'd and properly applied. But rust can come back if there's any other way for air and moisture to access the metal. That paint is also susceptible to UV degradation, so has to be painted over with some additional coating if exposed to sunlight (or welding flash). Any other system of phosphoric acid and good paint will achieve the same thing. But any rust still has to be aggressively removed to bare metal first.

[@Tintenfinger]

Interesting expertise, thank you! - A friend coated his entire steel boat from new with two-pot epoxy paint and followed the paint company’s instructions to the iota. Before having the interior woodwork done, he painted the inside of the boat scrupulously five times and has not had any serious corrosion issues for the last 40 years. The same has been true for the outside of the boat, where the hull above the waterline, the deck and the cabin roof were coated with two-pot epoxy (AWLGRIP) - but here, UV and mechanical abrasion have made new paint jobs necessary every six to ten years, in places with chafe etc. more frequently. Below the waterline, two-pot epoxy tar was applied (which was state-of-the-art in the early eighties), again in strict accordance with the instructions issued by the paint company; very little corrosion has since occurred. My conclusion: Seriously slowing down corrosion in steel boats is possible but takes a lot of foresight, craftsmanship, time and money for state-of-the-art coating jobs.

[@WaywardLifeSailing]

Thanks for the insight! On this comment and the other two you left.

[@johndavidson6867]

I haven't used "blue steel" on boats, but I did try it on a few trucks (wheel wells), I found that when new it worked much better, I probably should have prepped it much better than I did. Hope it all works out for you, I still want to see you ploughing through the waves this summer.

[@WaywardLifeSailing]

Fingers crossed it keeps things clean for a long time! Time will tell!

[@pbear6251]

Hi Guys I have been enjoying your journey since the time I discovered you on You Tube. Some of it has been agonizing to watch as you have dealt with one set back after another. Others times I have seen your joy of overcoming adversity. I hope to see you in the water this summer almost as much as you do. I have one question for you and that is: had you taken the time to gut the interior of the boat and had replaced the parts of the hull with new steel, do you think this might be further along to getting back in the water? I would love to hear your opinion. I am enjoying your videos and especially the understated background music unlike some other channels that just hit you with it. Thanks for your very entertaining work and I look forward to your videos whenever they come out. You brighten an otherwise dull day.

[@dennisambrose2447]

Hi, where did you get that spot blaster? Name of vendor and part/ model number appreciated. Thanks Dennis

[@WaywardLifeSailing]

I’m glad you’re enjoying our videos 😌 we’ve actually had quite a bit of discussion about this because if we had gutted the interior and just blasted and sprayed everything then the process might have been a lot faster, but on the other and that is a lot of interior to rebuild and I’m not sure how long that would take. If we had known how many problems we would have though I think we would have gutted and started from scratch.

[@AlisonFort]

Must be grim upside down in the bilge but I do keep willing you along❤

[@WaywardLifeSailing]

Haha we appreciate it!

[@Inlovewithsailing]

I have a steel sailboat and find that using straight phosphoric acid seams to work best. Rust converters leave a barrier between the steel and the epoxy paint. I want the paint to stick to the steel rather than the rust converter. I love the sturdiness of a steel boat but rust is a real bummer.

[@WaywardLifeSailing]

Yep we agree. The issue with a lot of our areas is how hard it would be to wash off the phosphoric acid, which is part of why we choose blue steel. We used phosphoric acid in the chain locker after blasting though, so it will be interesting to see how that holds up in the years to come!

[@user-gg6om8vp4f]

Barrister epoxy has a cold cure harder and is a marine coating good to -17c

[@tubeyerself2]

Sulphuric Acid will eat the rust, rinse it off with bicarbonate to neutralize, then apply a red oxide primer to seal. (or your blue steel stuff) & that paint you used at end must have been Water Based.

[@koobedo]

You guys will have a fantastic boat when all is done. Since you have been using Clovamastic, I'm curious why you chose Bluesteel over Cloverdale's Corroseal? Both being rust converters.

[@WaywardLifeSailing]

We honestly didn’t realize it’s an option. I’m surprised the rep didn’t mention it. Will keep that on the radar in case we need it. Thanks!

[@robertrantane6867]

Shorten the bristles on your brush - that will stiffen it.

[@WaywardLifeSailing]

Good call! Shoulda thought of that 😅

[@garyellis6112]

Hi, great vids. I am up island and have a steel boat as well. Where did you get the blue steel? Did you buy it locally? Or online.

[@WaywardLifeSailing]

Blue steel was purchased at independent, but they probably have it at ocean pacific as well!

[@garyellis6112]

@@WaywardLifeSailing thank you I will check

[@markarmitage9373]

If you had the benefit of hindsight at the outset of this herculean project, is there anything you'd have approached differently? I thoroughly enjoy watching. Thank you.

[@WaywardLifeSailing]

I think we probably would have torn out a lot more of the interior and had at least the bottom of the interior hull blasted. But from where we are now that wouldn’t make much sense to do

[@markarmitage9373]

I think you've both done an amazing job on this project and I've thoroughly enjoyed the adventure. I hope you get back in the water soon. You deserve it!

[@WaywardLifeSailing]

@@markarmitage9373 thank you!

[@dogguy57]

sorry not a regular for checking in on youtube but, this boat were you guys kinda swindled on the condition of your boat when you bought it? Just wondering with how long you guys have been repairing it.

[@WaywardLifeSailing]

I wouldn’t say we were swindled. It was just owned by people who thought they were taking care of the boat, but ended up making mistakes that are costing us now. That and design flaws that no one knew about or didn’t know how bad they were. Just one of the risks you take when buying a steel boat

[@dogguy57]

i see. if swindle sounds bad i don't mean fooled or anything, i just kinda typed what was in my head lol

[@WaywardLifeSailing]

@@dogguy57 haha no worries. It’s a fair question either way. But I don’t think there was any ill intent 😌

[@pforbom1844]

Is it possible that the chemical reaction of blue steel doesn’t occur properly at low temperatures?

[@Sailingon]

That's what I found with rust converters

[@WaywardLifeSailing]

Yeah it’s definitely possible. I think I had things warmed up enough for that to not be an issue, but I might be wrong

[@dennisambrose2447]

Hi, can you tell me where to buy that spot blastet? I have beem looking for one of yhose to no avail. Part/ model number and vendor appreciated. Thanks Dennis

[@WaywardLifeSailing]

Princess Auto and KMS has them I believe. We didn’t actually buy this one so I’m not sure. Sorry!

[@dennisambrose2447]

@@WaywardLifeSailing Hi, I have looked high and low for that spot blaster. KMS and PA have blasters but what makes that one special is the soft rubber nose that contains the grit and keeps it focused. A hard plastic nozzle is just not the same. I stopped the video a number of times to see a name but could not guess the missing letters. What is the name on the side of the media sock? Thanks, and keep going on the project. You will get there eventually!!

[@tommussington8330]

Cut the brush back till it is stiff enough for what you want to do.

[@WaywardLifeSailing]

I will keep that in mind for future! Def shoulda thought of that

[@christinaweinhold8882]

Steelboat owners among your viewers will be interested to find out if there are any general insights into preparatory anti-corrosion measures and subsequent coating procedures that you would be ready to share, for example: * What are your overall experiences with BLUESTEEL and would you recommend it? * Have you tried other anti-corrosion brands and - if so - what are your experiences with them? * Would you prefer BLUESTEEL over any other anti-corrosion brand, and if so, why? * What precautions did you take to make sure the subsequent paint system you opted for agrees with BLUESTEEL (independent expert advice, instructions by the paint company, by the makers of BLUESTEEL or whatever)? * What does your final paint system look like (one-pot, two-pot, different paint varieties for different layers, number of coats, drying times between coats etc., paint brand)? I keep my fingers crossed for the success of your work in the bilge!

[@WaywardLifeSailing]

We will def be doing an updated video in the future! Thanks for the feedback 😌😌

[@FlyingConey]

I know how many thoughts go into each and every decision. But throughout the video you seam a bit unhappy with the result you're getting. So maybe now is the time to reevaluate and remove the interior blast everything and have it rust free for good. It will be never easier than now. You have the equipment, it gives you the result you want to have and it adds to the value of your boat. But that's just my recommendation based on what I've seen in the video. All the best from Flying Coney ⛵

[@WaywardLifeSailing]

If we had known what was there when we started the project we probably would have done that, but based on where the rust is in the boat at present, and the fact that we would have to hire someone to come back and dry blast, it doesn’t seem worth it. The places we are unhappy with are all on ribs we will be able to access and fix rust on in the future if we need to.

[@martybowles3288]

No Max. Booo! He’s a lot more interesting than watching paint dry.⛵️

[@WaywardLifeSailing]

Why are you complaining? You get private pics and vids! He makes it difficult to get video when he has to be locked in the van cuz otherwise he wanders and gets into trouble