Is Steel better than Carbon? Step by Step Dream Steel Bike Build: Standert Triebwerk

[@cbrtn74]

Thanks for the very comprehensive video on how to build a bike! Much more realistic than the other dream bike build videos! Enjoy your new bike!

[@klein-concept]

@@cbrtn74 thanks a lot mate. Glad you liked it 🤜🤛

[@ivandjordevic696]

I really wish I could give this video 1000 likes because it truly deserves it

[@klein-concept]

Man thanks so much. Very happy to hear you enjoyed it 🤜🤛

[@donovanrice2671]

Loving all your videos! It is smart to use hydraulic oil compatible grease when installing the olives but I’ve seen plenty of people do just fine without it. Great work tho! Big fan of your page!

[@klein-concept]

Thanks a lot 🫶

[@bernardosuss]

This video made me sub right away. I wish I could be there and work with you and then ride bikes and grab a beer. Very cool content, mate!

[@klein-concept]

@@bernardosuss thanks a lot mate. Happy to have some after ride beers whenever you are in Berlin 🤜🤛

[@thegoodwheel]

Hey Michael, I am beyond happy for you on this modern steel build. You built it passionately how you wanted and now you get to enjoy it. Ride it well👍🏾

[@klein-concept]

Thanks so much man. Really appreciated. It is really a crazy fun ride. 🤜🤛

[@Koen030NL]

@@klein-concept how is the geometry? I read somewhere that the kreisage has a crazy aggresive geometry and really harsh ride. How is that with the triebwerk?

[@klein-concept]

@@Koen030NL the Kreissäge RS is their most aggressive geo. Made for proper racing. I think the triebwerk is less aggressive than that even if slammed and being a steel bike it will by design also be less harsh. For me it is one of my favourite bikes at the moment.

[@Koen030NL]

@@klein-concept thanks for the quick reply! I started road cycling on a steel fixed gear and strongly considering to get this triebwerk after riding an entry level carbon bike for the past 3 years. Other option would be Titanium. 🤷🏼‍♂️ doubts…

[@klein-concept]

@@Koen030NL i think you will love the Triebwerk. Titanium also sounds great but finding one of similar quality and integrated routing might be tricky for that pricepoint.

[@varweg]

I really liked the video. I watch videos of bicycle assembly and wait for my bicycle parts to arrive from China. Thank you for the video!

[@klein-concept]

Thanks a lot. Which parts did you get and what bike are you building?

[@varweg]

@@klein-concept Cheap carbon bike for city trips and training. If I like a bike, then I want to ride it more. Therefore, the bike should look nice. Twitter frame, elitewheels carbon wheels, ltwoo 1-11 hydraulic groupset. etc

[@klein-concept]

@@varweg amazing. Seen the Twitter frames. They look really good. Let me know how it rides once you set it up 🤜🤛

[@matthewavignonpetersen5893]

I’ve always lusted for a Standert and this video makes me want one even more. Incredible edit, super entertaining and freakin’ rocket ship of a bike!

[@klein-concept]

Thanks so much. Glad you like it. Of you re on the hunt have a look at some of their deals that they have going atm. Really tempted to get one of their rim brake frames as well 😂😂😂

[@matthewavignonpetersen5893]

@@klein-concept Oh gosh - stop 😬 before I make a huge financial blunder!

[@klein-concept]

@@matthewavignonpetersen5893 🎄🎁🫣

[@dakalla]

@@klein-concept bike24 is selling rim brake Ultegra Di2 ST-R8150 for rediculous low prices!

[@abedfo88]

This is a gorgeous bike. I really want a modern steel frame now 😅

[@klein-concept]

Glad you like it. Have a look at Standert. They still have a good sale going for the next couple days 🤜🤛

[@spkroadbikes]

The quality of your videos is immaculate! 🔥🔥🔥

[@klein-concept]

Thanks a lot mate 🤜🤛. Glad you enjoyed it.

[@kawabus]

Haha I watch and re-watch the same bar tape video too. Fabulous build 🚴‍♀️✨✨

[@klein-concept]

Thank you 🤜🤛 Somehow i can not memorize the loop 🫣

[@maxdessureault]

I've been eyeing the Kreissäge RS for a while, I didn't even know they made a steel bike! Really Really enjoyable video.

[@klein-concept]

Thank you 🤜🤛. A friend of mine has the RS and likes it a lot. The frames look beautiful as well. Somehow with aluminium i have similar fears of damaging it too easily. But i think one day i will also need to give the legendary Kreissäge a try.

[@markhumus-js7xz]

Amazing video, incredibly level of detail in here.. planning a standert build myself, and this could be the best reference yet :)

[@klein-concept]

Thanks a lot. What Standert are you going for?

[@markhumus-js7xz]

@@klein-concept I think the Kreissage RS. Stichsage was my original choice, as it is essentially the same geo with more tire clearance, but I just can't stomach the currently available white / fluro yellow combination. I'll definitely be coming back to your video come build time though, regardless!

[@armandapransiska1430]

German brand, Italian tube, made in Taiwan. The beauty of modern industrial suply chain. ❤ it

[@klein-concept]

@@armandapransiska1430 lovely combo 🤜🤛

[@kennethrgeberg2217]

Good job with a nice and detailed build video! Waiting for my Triebwerk in the old version with exposes cables. Going to build it up with a campy record group, enve build kit and shamal wheels.

[@klein-concept]

Think you will love it. Exposed cables or not it is a really fun ride. And that campy group is pushing it up a level 🤜🤛

[@gregschramm8180]

Don’t use the torque wrench unless you have to and that’s so it stays on point you have to recalibrate it on occasion

[@klein-concept]

Ok so there seems to be some truth behind it. Thanks for confirming 🫶

[@gabrielschneider1344]

Sehr schönes Rad!! Ich fahre auch zwei Standerts und du hast sie sehr passend aufgebaut.

[@klein-concept]

Danke dir 🤜🤛

[@ciprian7]

Campagnolo Shamal C17 two ways are the best alloy wheels one can buy, 1440g, USB bearings, cup and cone, no need for tape, 17mm internal and 24mm external work best with 25-28mm tires, braking is exceptional as well. Campy ti skewers and you have a winning package

[@klein-concept]

Thanks for the recommendation. Will give them a look 💰💰💰

[@Horstelin]

Loosening bolts with the torque wrench is like not aligining the tire logo with the valve stem. You simply just don't do it.

[@klein-concept]

Got it. So its like a Velominati rule 🤜🤛

[@Horstelin]

@@klein-concept Well... it's just good practice to use a measuring instrument only for just that ;) Like you would also not use your scales (especially old ones with springs in them) as a bookstand. Does it really hurt? Not in the short run, in the long run probably also not, but nobody really knows. It's so easy to just grab an allen wrench.

[@klein-concept]

Will try to make this part of the routine. Thank you 🫶

[@briansandjones]

Great vid, really enjoyed watching this. FYI-those fcr8000 cranks are part of the Shimano recall...

[@klein-concept]

Thanks a lot. Yes i need to get this reviewed if it is impacted. 🫶

[@logojones96]

such a beautiful bike, one day I'll have a Standert!

[@klein-concept]

Thanks a lot. If you re on the hunt for a standert frame. They do have some good deals going for the next days. 🤜🤛

[@hexray715]

I’ve been looking into this frame for months now and finally a build video worth watching WITH THE WEIGHT of the bike! I thought this bike wouldn’t weight under 8kg so it’s really surprising to see that weight. Looking forward to more weight savings you can do on this bike to maybe taking it down to sub 7.5kg, without breaking the bank that is 😎… Amazing job with this build video too! Been a subsriber for a few months now and love your videos, hope you get more subscribers!

[@klein-concept]

Thanks so much. Really happy to hear that you enjoy the videos 🤜🤛. I was actually also very happy to see that it came out below 8kg. I will be swapping out that powermeter ultegra crankset for a dura ace one from my other bike. That should give the bike a couple g weight savings.

[@oscarbarquincaloca5762]

I have this frame in match 3 version. Ultegra R8020, fulcrum 1500g wheels, carbon in everything else and its 9150g in size 54 with 50g tubes. A sub 7,5 kg is almost imposible. The spare frame is 2kg. A sub 7,5kg disc brake bike is a TDF climbing bike weight, so dont dream of that weight with a steel frame. By the way, that 7,9 is quite unreal

[@klein-concept]

@@oscarbarquincaloca5762 i agree. Maybe not the best bike for trying to reduce every gram but was very impressed about the weight. Will give an update after i swaped out the power meter crankset and maybe the saddle.

[@oscarbarquincaloca5762]

I think you would better swap your balance because is not working well

[@klein-concept]

@@oscarbarquincaloca5762 what do you mean with balance?

[@dakalla]

Really nice build and it has a beautiful color! Reminds me of my Erdgeschoss build, although it was a little bit more complicated to route brake lines and shifting cables through that space in the bottom bracket. I tried a lot of things, but getting shifting cables without beeing bent on the edge too much, i decided to cut the plastic sleeve a bit. Not sealed perfectly now, but its just not enough space for good shifting performance otherewise.

[@dakalla]

And thumbs up for always showing your little build mistakes, it's the ones everyone can learn the most from.

[@klein-concept]

Thanks a lot. Glad you enjoyed it. Yes the space around the bottom bracket was really tough. To be honest i have no idea if i could have routed mechanical shifting cables through this frame. Was all super tight.

[@JeffreyWilliams-dr7qe]

Well done! About time generally. Thanks! Please tell us about the tubing.

[@klein-concept]

Thank you. 🤜🤛 As far as i know it uses mostly Columbus Life tubes.

[@G60syncro]

Sweet build as usual! I'm back in build mode because I'm getting a ride together for winter but stupid me lagged on some key orders and I'm still waiting for parts!! In the meantime I watch others build bikes... Regarding torque wrench use, yes you're not supposed to undo bolts with them. But if you're dealing with single digit torque values don't sweat it!!! It's mostly meat for those instances where your 30cm ratchet won't cut it undoing that M12 bolt really stuck on... But that 50cm torque wrench might do!! Problem is, at those torque values, it'll mess up the calibration. Between you and the GCN crew showing off Standert bikes, I'm tempted to land my next trip in Germany in Berlin to pick one up as a vacation ride and bring it back to Canada as a unique ride and souvenir! They're really nice!!!

[@klein-concept]

Thanks a lot. Glad you like it 🫶 and thank you for the comment on the torque wrench. I will try to make it a routine to undo bolts with another tool. What kind of bike are you building for winter? Have a look at the standert website. They do have some good deals going for the next couple of days. Btw where from Canada are you from? I will be coming to Vancouver and Toronto late next week to play some 🎶.

[@G60syncro]

@@klein-concept I'm in a small city called Sherbrooke 150km east of Montreal around here the winters are snowy, icy, wet and cold. Riding in the snow is real nice and not really a problem but the worst is the road salt and sand grit they spread on the streets to make them less slippery for traffic. That shit gets everywhere in your mech and ruins and grinds everything to death!! I had an old 100$ steel bike that died last year because of that. This year I went crazy and bought a used 200$ aluminium road bike for this winter. It had a Tiagra groupset and was actually quite fun to ride so I took it all apart and kept the nice Shimano stuff in a box for next summer. It'll make a nice backup for my other ride... This past summer I got a 2008 Focus cyclocross frame and built that up for a fun city/gravel bike depending on the wheels I put on it. For the winter bike I downgraded all the parts to really cheap wheels, no front derailleur and a cheap rear and a friction shifter. It's quite a minimalistic build with a few things tweaked for our Canadian winters. I should do a video of it once it's built even though it's late for this winter. It might be a good resource for someone getting into winter riding. And finally, regarding the torque wrench question, I work in mechanical design, basicalliy a step under a proper engineer, and there's always a thought process behind a way to assemble things. You never hit on bearings to get them in place, always press them in without the load going through the balls/rollers. Torque wrenches are for putting things together, never for brute forcing things apart. so you should use common wrenches to strip down a bike but the way you put them back together in your videos with precise torque settings is 1000% correct!!!

[@klein-concept]

@@G60syncro Thanks a lot for the explanation regarding the torque wrench. All makes sense and i will try to adapt my lazy routine 🫣. Regarding the winter bike that seems like a really fun project and something that people dont really cover too well on youtube. So i think it would be worth it for you to make a video to share with people 🤜🤛

[@VeloViking]

Nice build! I'm awaiting my Triebwerk frameset next week and can't wait to build it up during the winter. Sadly I will not be able to ride it for some months because of the long winter here in Norway. In the meantime I'll let it be a centerpiece in my livingroom!

[@klein-concept]

Thank you. What color did you get? It will be a beautiful centerpiece either way 🤜🤛

[@VeloViking]

I got the same color as yours! @@klein-concept

[@klein-concept]

@@VeloViking great choice 🤜🤛

[@bicivini]

New Triebwerk is simply awesome. Was thinking for a while pulling the trigger, when I first saw it. Even more as I love great steel frames (remember Columbus Genius tubes 💜). BUT finally decided going for a titanium frame. Why? Actually because even though I really like the looks, Standert was just kind of too much hipster style. And Titanium looks awesome, rides fab, frame was cheaper (from UK)…and after fully integrated aero carbon frames, liked the simplicity of external (though it‘s internal routed carbon habdlebars & internal routed from downtube). But hey, kudos for your Triebwerk built! It‘s looking great! Much love for the style 🙌🏽

[@klein-concept]

I was also on the fence actually. Ti frame vs this one but as i wanted something fully integrated for the disc setup i didnt find a ti frame in the same price range. What frame did you get for yourself?

[@bicivini]

@@klein-concept fully understand, had the same thoughts. Actually being an aero and weight weenies mindset 😂 but after building Yishun, SP, LC etc (& some others 🫣, besides the Steel classics) aero bikes and having too many in the Workshop, finally decided for 1/2 integrated Holdsworth Helm (yes, it’s Planet X, but they changed from Waltly to a manufacturer in Taiwan, doing also the stuff for Van Nicholas, J. Guillem etc. 🤫 nobody listens anyway 😏 and lifetime warranty) seeing in blood and flesh, I don‘t regret not having ordered the Lynskey 500. Build up Running currently, SRAM AXS like always, it‘s just so much more simple and prices awesome (on discounts) vs Shimano. Cheers from Switzerland 🙌🏽

[@bicivini]

Well reg. weight…below 1600 in 56 for the frame…rest all carbon parts, build-up vid coming later. Wanna enjoy the experience this time without a rush

[@klein-concept]

Funny you mention Waltly. They have actually been the only ones i found in the price range. Did you hear any opinions on their work?

[@klein-concept]

And congrats on the frame. Gonna sub to your channel right away as i m very interested in this build. 🤜🤛

[@paulbrmnn900]

30:34 Hi Michael! Würdest du mir verraten welches Tool du für die Installation des Innenlagers verwendet hast? Danke!

[@klein-concept]

Hab das tool leider in meinem studio aber bin mir ziemlich sicher dass es so ein hollowtech ii tool ist: www.rosebikes.de/rose-hollowtech-ii-lagerschalenwerkzeug-180258?product_shape=Standard&article_size=Standard&eqrecqid=f1080020-d358-11ee-8821-00005e828630

[@senorspiegel]

this looks incredibly cumbersome. I personally do not like the fully internal aesthetic so all the extra work seems absurd Im glad the steel frame lives on but im glad most steel frames dont hide their cables

[@klein-concept]

It is. Not gonna deny that. Especially if you dont like the look either then its a win win for you. Great look and way easier install and maintenance 🤜🤛

[@senorspiegel]

@@klein-concept I'm just happy that threaded bottom brackets and beautiful steel bikes still live on, excellent video

[@klein-concept]

@@senorspiegel 🫶

[@zeref783]

Das Titan - Stahl Thumbnail sah echt klasse aus

[@klein-concept]

Danke. Das passende video dazu kommt auch bald. 🤜🤛

[@RobertRauchfuss]

Super interessing video! Thanks so much for sharing ❤

[@klein-concept]

Thanks a lot Rob. Lets ride soon 🤜🤛

[@luisvalenzuela5132]

amazing video! thanks for the nice content! Living in Berlin as well, I ask myself where do you find all that sunshine? 😅

[@klein-concept]

I m barely in Berlin these days. Parents live in Hessen and friends in Poland so i like to do some short weekend trips out.

[@carlosmasmela1584]

I like your video! Amazing job! Well done! 🎉

[@klein-concept]

Thanks a lot 🫶

[@1971lemond]

U cut that fork to short , u want the fork steering tube no shorter than the top of the stem, so that the stem clamp has full contact on the steering tube, then add the fork plug then 5mm spacer then top cap to compress/preload the headset.

[@klein-concept]

@@1971lemond thank you. But i dont like to have a spacer sitting on top of my stem. The research i made before has shown that the steerer should not be cut below the upper clamp bolt of the stem. But maybe thats wrong. Happy to learn more about this 🫶

[@colindoesstuff2095]

Super well done!

[@klein-concept]

Thanks a lot 🫶

[@MichaelBorg-d4w]

Exceptional video i really enjoyed it, is it hard to install mechanical grp sets on standert bikes? I read multiple reviews where customers found it a bit hard to pass cables at the bb area. Awesome content thanks!

[@klein-concept]

@@MichaelBorg-d4w thank you. 🤜🤛 I thought that this frame was listed as being compatible with electronic groupsets only.

[@celestialemissary4934]

7.9 is really nice. I was thinking it would be around 9kg

[@klein-concept]

Was also happily surprised 🤌

[@celestialemissary4934]

​@@klein-conceptdo you know how much kg is the frame ?

[@klein-concept]

Frame without fork is around 1.8kg and fork uncut is 440g.

[@Quizmate1]

I thought metal frame manufacturers, whether titanium or steel, would resist the temptation to follow fashion and fully integrate cables into their frames. Seems I was wrong.

[@klein-concept]

I m happy they do so us riders have the option. I like the clean look so happy that i was able to stay with my favourite material.

[@Quizmate1]

Interesting. I think it looks wrong. Metal frames to me are all about simplicity, and dare I say honesty. I like to see parts on show, whether that be cables, hoses, seatpost collars, threaded bottom brackets etc, and no proprietary parts. The way things are going, I'll likely have to go custom in future, especially if brands like Fairlight or Mason succumb to the trend. It looks nice, but people will be less keen once they realise how complicated and expensive it will be to service and fit bikes at the front end.

[@lordalfa600]

@@Quizmate1 Di2 or wireless is less maintenance. Set it once and forget about faffing with it any more, ride more.

[@klein-concept]

I think in metal frames it will stay the exception because of exactly the reasons you are mentioning. For me my favourite bike is still my old rim brake steel bike with exposed as it is so easy to maintain. But the clean look of this Standert also made me want to have it. 🤩

[@klein-concept]

True. Only problem comes when you want to do some maintenance and regreaseing. All that integrated stuff takes a bit more time but with some bikes like this one it is worth it for me. But everybody needs to decide for themselves what they prefer.

[@sven2793]

Spectacular build, I like it a lot! The tube dimensions around the head tube are looking nicely balanced for a steel frame with integrated cable routing. What O.D. are the down tube and the top tube?

[@klein-concept]

Thanks a lot. Very happy to hear that. I will measure the tubes as soon as i m back in Berlin with my Standert. Might be 3 weeks tho until then.

[@derekvanhoose6815]

I'm about to pull the trigger on a Triebwerk, and found it interesting that you said the Klein was probably your favorite...can you elaborate on that? Love your channel!

[@klein-concept]

Just to clear things up. When i ment Klein Concept i ment my own rebranded and refurbished frame. Only after i started my channel i learned about the original old Klein bike brand. So it has nothing to do with it. I m referring actually to my bike which has a Daccordi Profidea as a base. I would say for me it is on par with the Tiebwerk now from an emotional perspective. I got the other bike to almost 6.8kg which felt very special for me for a steel bike. And its a rim brake bike as well which i love for its simplicity. To add to it it is also a 9100 Dura Ace mechanical. So ultimate analog minimalism. The Triebwerk is an amazing frame and i think you will love it. When it comes to disc brake bikes it is definitely the most fun bike that i have ridden so far.

[@donttouchthisatall]

I love your build videos! Such chill - Also, could this bike frame have a more german sounding name "Standert Triebwerk" ? As a German speaking native i am not sure why they choose to "misspell" Standard, but must be a stylistic choice :) Reminds me of the Band Kraftwerk.

[@klein-concept]

Danke dir. Glaube mich zu erinnern mal in einem interview gehört zu haben, dass das berliner slang ist. So wie stanni, standert. 🤔

[@donttouchthisatall]

@@klein-concept - Ah, das macht natürlich Sinn :D - wieder was gelernt!

[@klein-concept]

Aber achtung. Halbwissen 😂😂

[@abedfo88]

"Standert" sounds so much cooler in English. Using standard would be the most standard name ever 😅.

[@klein-concept]

@@abedfo88 😂😂

[@ManuelM-f9n]

Hi Michael! Do you think it is also possible to build the Triebwerk up with a mech. groupset? The official statement from standert is NO. I wonder what your opinion is? Thanks a lot!✌

[@klein-concept]

@@ManuelM-f9n I think it will be very tricky without drilling any holes yourself. If i remember correctly there would not even be a big enough opening for a rear derailleur.

[@ManuelM-f9n]

@@klein-concept I see! Thanks for your answer and the technical deep dive ;-)! Schönen Tag dir!

[@klein-concept]

@ManuelM-f9n immer gerne. Danke dir auch 🫶

[@gamer-pro-berlin]

Alright!!! Game on!

[@klein-concept]

Lets get em

[@marvinkamei7007]

question is what do you enjoy the most to ride!!! that all that matters!!

[@klein-concept]

Yes that is so true. These days it is the titanium bike which i modeled after this Standert one.

[@trevekneebone369]

I didn't see you brace the front derailleur against the frame/mount with the small screw. Di2 derailleurs generate massive torque and need to be braced so that it does not rotate (relative to the chain rings) during shifting.

[@klein-concept]

Thanks a lot for flagging it. As i actually didnt. Will fix that right a way. 🤜🤛

[@trevekneebone369]

@@klein-concept no worries - screw head accessed through the front of the derailleur. Sometimes tricky to find. Make sure the back end of the screw has something solid to press against (not a thin frame tube)

[@ciprian7]

BTW what had ruined the steef frames was always supper stiff carbon wheels( Winspace) Darimo supperlight carbon seatpost , stem and handlebar on the other hand alloy Uno stem, Zipp 70ergo handlebar, Tune seatpost, Shamal C17 wheels, Pirelli 28mm tubeless worked with the steel frame and transformed the ride, curious what other riders do with their steel frames.

[@klein-concept]

I think the Dive wheels that i m riding are also more on the stiff side. When i was riding my alu dt swiss 1400 dicut oxic the ride was maybe a bit more comfy but also flexed a bit more on the steeper climbs.

[@thereal_deo]

Beautiful build, man. Hoping to get hands on a steel frame built by a small steel frame maker from the Philippines. I am fromthe Philippines myself, but live in the UK. Where is the sunglasses from?

[@klein-concept]

Sounds amazing. Do you have a recommendation for a well priced custom steel frame then? The glasses are from alba optics 🤜🤛.

[@ciprian7]

Hi, i have been watching your videos because i too like steel bikes, light weight bikes, good running bikes and most of anything i love debunking myths .i have few observations and comments, i have gone the same route and attempt to build under 7kg steel rim bike, while very easy and doable the ride rode nice but too many compromises, all the supper light carbon components come with limitations and while supper light are either too rigid or too flexy, . When did the same with a disc frame i was very disappointed, sure 8.kg steel disc bike sounds like a dream built but the oversize tubes, the oversized head set, the oversized fork and the overall rigidity of the frame turned the bike into a solid tourer but slow to react and definitely not fast or agile, again i was disappointed but did not give up . After experiencing many combinations i came to the conclusion that high quality steel frames have a place into today market and overall high performance scene when built right and not with silly goals in mind my perfect steel rim road bike is a Waterford Precision road Racer, Reynolds 853 and Platinum OX lugged frame 1680g size 52 , straight steel fork with SS drop outs 623g. alloy seatpost, stem,handlebar, Chorus 11 S groupset , Campagnolo Shamal c17 wheels. the wholes built weights 7.9kg but runs circle around the under 7kg bike, the frame is the boss, the combination of high quality steel frame with high quality alloy components , 28mm tires, makes for a perfect ride. The other steel bike is a Ritchey Swiss Cross team edition, cantilever brakes 1900g for the frame, 460g for carbon fork, built with 105 shifters, GRX 1X, Bontrager Paradigm Elite wheels, 8.4kg cycle cross or gravel weapon, for the steel frames to really shine and reward you with the STEEL IS REAL feeling you must match the components carefully, start with a high end steel frame, Waterford, Ritchey, are some of the best in the world , welcome your thoughts, also your experience from riding steel in different combinations. I also own several carbon and alu bikes, happy to chime in how i feel about these vs steel.

[@klein-concept]

Hey, thanks for the in depth description. So would you say the Waterford is your favourite frame if you would have to pick one? I am still trying a lot of components trying to make up my mind what works best for me. I really like my sub 7kg Daccordi. Even with all the carbon components it rides smoother than e.g. my carbon BMC. But maybe there is still room for improvement on the ride feel.

[@ciprian7]

I@@klein-concept I have few steel bikes, Zullo Iquobo, Tommasini Tecno, Waterford, Rirchey Swiss Cross, LeMond Poprad, i have had others , mostly disc but gave up, steel disc bikes are touring bikes not high performance. I consider the Ritchey Swiss Cross to be the best of all by how versatile it is but Waterford is a true classic, lugged, Reynolds 853 and Platinum OX combination, steel fork and the high quality alloy components and wheels make that bike ride like a high performance bike.

[@ciprian7]

@@klein-concept Don't mean to start a controversy here but my 2016 CAAD12 alu/ is superior to any steel bikes i have ever ridden. Caad 12 is a marvelous road bike that can race with anybody, 990g frame, 285 g HiMod frame, 25.4mm Save seatpost / BB30 , the only bike i never considered selling .

[@klein-concept]

@@ciprian7 happy to hear that. I actually also have that on my shopping list. So very happy to hear your thoughts on it. 🌝

[@ciprian7]

@@klein-concept You have exquisite taste and vision, keep building them and share with us but please be objective , transparent and informative how they compare vs each other, we gonna continue to support and promote your channel as long as there is pertinent, unbiased content Well done

[@MB-qj8yo]

Hi! Love the video! I just bought the stichsäge from standert and I’m considering building it with the H9 handlebar. After some months, would you still use it or do you prefer another one?

[@klein-concept]

Thanks a lot. I think today i would go for an Avian Canary handlebar but the H9 is also good but a bit heavier.

[@MB-qj8yo]

@@klein-concept thank you for your quick response!

[@adccars359]

Torque wrench should be used to tighten bolts only.

[@klein-concept]

Thank you. Will try to adapt my routine to not undo bolts with it 🫣

[@adamcowan6160]

How is it different / similar to your Pfadfinder? Preference? Love your videos BTW

[@klein-concept]

Thanks a lot 🫶 I actually prefer it over the Pfadfinder. Even tho they are very similar in weight, the more sporty geometry of the Triebwerk fits me better. It feels faster but could also be that my legs are just more motivated by this all integrated setups looks. 🫣

[@adamcowan6160]

So you think there’s a chance to squeeze 35’s in there?

[@klein-concept]

I think it will depend on exactly which tires you want to use and how willing you are to take a bit of a risk when it comes to potential dirt that gets stuck on your tire to scratch the paintwork.

[@jwie512]

18:28 i love my sram axs 😂✌

[@klein-concept]

Haha. Yes been tempted by axs for a while because of that.

[@EryPrihananto]

new bike day :D

[@klein-concept]

Yes 😍😍😍

[@MrBastiBast]

Beautiful video and bike! I'm waiting for a Kreissäge Disc frame delivery in a few days, looking forward for my first dream build with the new 105 Di2... The only unknown to me is the grease/assembly paste to use for the T47 bottom bracket. The frame is aluminum. Some say standard bike grease works fine as it's alloy on alloy, others say Anti-Seize is needed. Any recommandation here ? Thanks for your support! Cheers

[@klein-concept]

I have not worked on Aluminium frames too much but my first thought would also be that regular thick grease will work well here. And congrats on the Kreissäge. A good friend of mine rides one and it is a beautiful bike. You will love it i think.

[@MrBastiBast]

@@klein-concept Thank you for the answer and yes, it literally is a dream build for me , can't wait to receive it!

[@MrBastiBast]

@@klein-concept Actually I have another question, as I'll get the same Standert T47 BB, can you tell me which size is the adapter ? I see many different variants online. Thanks again !

[@klein-concept]

@@MrBastiBast what adapter do you mean? The one for the install to tighten it?

[@MrBastiBast]

@@klein-concept yes sorry I wasn't clear : what' size is the adapter you used to tighten the bottom bracket. Thank you for taking the time to answer as you do, that's very helpful !

[@ayanposadas7215]

Awesome video!! I watched it from start to end. May I ask what handle bar did you use?

[@klein-concept]

Thank you. I used the H9 handlebar from Yoeleo.

[@ayanposadas7215]

@@klein-concept thank you! will def check it out. Will this fit kresissage rs?

[@klein-concept]

@@ayanposadas7215 i think it should.

[@l.d.t.6327]

Very nice! I'm digging steel bikes with modern components. I am in the market for a Standert Triebwerk or anything similar (modern steel, think Speedvagen, Jaegher, Feather, ... just randomly naming some brands), but I really don't know, at this point, what I should consider as I'm afraid I'm missing out on options I haven't discovered yet. What made you go for a Standert and do you have other suggestions...?

[@klein-concept]

Glad you like it. I went for the Standert as i am based in Berlin and i already had their Pfadfinder which i really liked. I also wanted a steel bike with integrated cable routing so i did not see any other options in this price range. But i really love the Standert. It rides so well and keeps motivating me to get me out riding even if the weather is meh.

[@nicolasjan1584]

You presse and tightten the breaks , then realise presion . Is the spacer always needed ?

[@klein-concept]

You either need a full spacer block if you remove the pads or a regular pad spacer or some thick cardboard in between the pads if you want to keep them in.

[@kanga66prso]

in a size 58 what would be the weight? I want tiny tubes and I am fed up with carbon but I want to be below 8 kilos. Probably with rim I might make it.

[@klein-concept]

In a size 56 we currently estimate the frame to be around 1.7kg. Disc is tricky but below 8 should be possible. Dont know if you have already seen my sub 7kg steel bike build. So even that is possible. But it is rim brake.

[@croccofanto]

I know the pain of cracking plastic on the shifters... tho i repaired it by pooring superglue over the hairline crack and now it dosent leak 😉

[@klein-concept]

Should have given that a try. Think i sold it as defect for parts 🫣

[@croccofanto]

@@klein-concept that works to 😄

[@klein-concept]

@@croccofanto your method would have saved my some good 💰

[@stefanguddat4125]

Was hat der ganze Spaß hier eigentlich insgesamt gekostet? Also abseits der eigenen Arbeitszeit? :) Sieht super aus, rein optisch sieht ein Stahlrahmen so viel besser als ein Carbonrahmen aus.

[@klein-concept]

Hab die meisten teile über die jahre zusammengekauft. Denke komplett liegt das rad nun bei etwa 5000 euro.

[@stefanguddat4125]

@@klein-conceptKrass, inbesondere die Dura-Ace Gruppe kostet ja schon nen Vermögen, hätte mit deutlich mehr gerechnet. Zwei Fragen noch, hat dieser "Disko"-Lack eigentlich einen Namen? Habe ein ähnliches "Umbau"-Projekt geplant und schon einen Teil der Sachen angeschafft, hadere aber noch mit mir, ob ich wirklich eine neue Lackierung angehen soll. Und was genau war das für ein Stahlrahmen, den du im Vorfeld beschafft hast? War das von einem echten Rennrad? Oder war das vorher mal ein Trekking/Hybrid-Bike? Danke!

[@klein-concept]

​@@stefanguddat4125du meinst das aus dem anderen video richtig? Das war ein Scapin Spirit R9 rennrad. Den lack hatte ich damals irgendwo online gefunden. Sowas wie silver chameleon heisst der glaube ich. Hab damals glaube einfach nach glitter paint auf google gesucht.

[@stefanguddat4125]

Danke!@@klein-concept

[@rand_kk]

Great build! Just a quick question, do you think a mechanical groupset will fit in there? or it would be too tight in the bottom bracket?

[@klein-concept]

I think it will be too tight. If i remember correctly they also state on their website that it is only for electronic groupsets.

[@rand_kk]

@@klein-concept what a quick response. Much love!

[@klein-concept]

@@rand_kk 🫶

[@FT__Bicycling_____-sc7yv]

looks like you NEVER did a follow-up review of this bike! How has it worked? How do you like it? How are the ride characteristics? How about maintain-ability?

[@klein-concept]

I still love it. Its my second favourite these days. Maintainability is still to be seen. So far adding some extra grease to headset bearings is no problem. Swapping them out for new ones might be tho 😂😂

[@FT__Bicycling_____-sc7yv]

@@klein-concept Thank you. That's good to hear. Why would swapping the headset bearings be a problem?

[@klein-concept]

​@@FT__Bicycling_____-sc7yv Because you would have to detach the brake hoses from the shifters and then route them back into the handlebars afterwards.

[@FT__Bicycling_____-sc7yv]

@@klein-concept ohhhhh yeah. Ugh. Have to trick yourself into the mindset that bike maintenance is fun. 😀. The good thing related to that is the headset bearings are likely to last very long. I'm running through bb and wheel bearings living in a place with dirty roads but my headsets seem fine

[@matiassamo]

Nice build. Love the new Triebwerk! I have the Pfadfinder and also use that in a road setup. Have you done that with yours? If so, how does the ride compare?

[@klein-concept]

Thanks a lot. The Pfadfinder is a beautiful frame as well. I also have been running the Pfadfinder in road setup most of the time. The geometry was a bit less sporty i think. Even tho weight wise there is almost no difference i feel faster on the Triebwerk. But might also just be the integrated look that motivates my legs to push harder 😂😂

[@Multi8h]

How does steel compare to aluminium or titanium? Where I live the roads are heavily salted so I'm worried a steel frame would rust

[@klein-concept]

That is a question i can not answer yet but i will be building up a custom titanium frame in the next weeks with the same geometry as the Triebwerk so should know soon 🤜🤛

[@mlara03celtics]

Quick question do you think it’s worth it to invest in the park tool bleed kit or is the generic versions being sold good enough for your everyday home mechanic?

[@klein-concept]

I use the generic stuff and works well for me. Think i have done around 10 bleeds already and its still good.

[@mlara03celtics]

@@klein-concept thanks for the quick reply do you have any recommendation for a good one or just any one would do? Thanks for the awesome videos sir you rock!

[@klein-concept]

@@mlara03celtics have a look at the ones from bleedkit.com i bought one there 2 years ago and still use it. 🫶

[@SuperYreffej]

What size seat post is this? Trying to build up a Triebwerk as well and the site is a bit confusing. Thank you!

[@klein-concept]

Its a 27.2 mm diameter one. Think i went with a 350mm seatpost length.

[@SuperYreffej]

@@klein-concept Thanks! This video was the thing that made me finally decide on the Triebwerk so thanks for posting.

[@klein-concept]

@@SuperYreffej glad to hear that. You gonna love it. Really fun ride 🤜🤛

[@enricobrunodelzotto7486]

Very nice video, keep going! Which handlebar is it ? h9 or h10?

[@klein-concept]

Thank you. It is the H9 🤜🤛

[@enricobrunodelzotto7486]

@@klein-concept cheers dude! Another info, just out of curiosity, the size is an 56 in your video, isn't ? What is the saddle height?

[@klein-concept]

@@enricobrunodelzotto7486 yes it is a 56. I set it to around 77cm from the center of the bottom bracket.

[@IFrancyISantosI]

somehow DI2 looks more complicated than a mechanical shifting system. ever thought about a sram axs?

[@klein-concept]

Have a look at my latest titanium build. I went with Sram there and loved the simplicity. Wish sram would have trim tho. 🫶

[@MaximeToulliou]

What are the scales you use to weigh bikes?

[@klein-concept]

@@MaximeToulliou i use the Park Tool DS 1 these days 🤜🤛

[@mikekow_]

What size is this frame and what is your height & inseam? Ty in advance!

[@klein-concept]

It is a 56. I am 1,85 with an inseam of around 80. The frame is rather on the small side but i prefer it to be a bit undersized. So i m running a 110mm stem.

[@AdamWilkoszarski]

As a Sram eTap user I can't wrap my head around how Di2 is overcomplicated.

[@klein-concept]

Hehe yes. I wish they would go the etap route. At least the new generation does have wireless shifters but still needs the battery to derailleur connection. I m actually on the hunt for a good etap groupset for that reason. 🤜🤛

[@LukeRichardson1981]

@@klein-concept I'm planning to upgrade my bike to 105 Di2 soon and I don't think that the wiring needed is going to be that big a deal considering that the handlebar is by far the worst part of internal routing and new Di2 does away with that with the wireless shifters. With one of those magnetic routing tools doing the wiring from the battery in the seatpost to the derailleurs really won't be that bad. I considered going SRAM but I found that I prefer the features of Di2 (auto trim in particular) and I don't want to have to deal with DOT brake fluid.

[@klein-concept]

@@LukeRichardson1981 yes the new generation Di2 will be way easier to set up. So i think good choice you made there 🤜🤛

[@fabrizioc5551]

8kg con freni a disco buono 👏🏻👏🏻 che misura di telaio è?

[@klein-concept]

🫶

[@pedaling.z]

can this be compatible with mechanical groupset?

[@klein-concept]

It is designed for electronic groupsets only but they have another non fully integrated triebwerk i think which would work with mechanical.

[@joshg.8970]

Darf ich fragen wie deine Maße sind wegen der Rahmengröße

[@klein-concept]

@@joshg.8970 Ich bin etwa 187 und fahre meist eine 56 mit längerem vorbau 🤜🤛

[@joshg.8970]

@@klein-conceptdanke Dir! Da bin ich doch sehr überrascht weil die bei mir schon ein 58 Rahmen empfehlen aber ich hab schon öfter gelesen das die Rahmen relativ groß ausfallen. Danke hat mir sehr geholfen!

[@dioright]

Installing and aligning shifters on a handlebar on a table, before you put it on a bike is TOP advice. Never like'd ruller method, it not so accurate.

[@klein-concept]

I also never liked the ruler method and most of the time still had slightly offset shifters 🫣😂😂

[@TheArimatheus]

What happened to the bubble wrap?

[@klein-concept]

I guess it might still be stuck in the seattube 😂😂

[@luisvalenzuela5132]

@@klein-concept some undesired extra weight 🤣😂

[@klein-concept]

Hope it will not cause anybody sleepless nights 🫣😂😂

[@donttouchthisatall]

@@klein-concept anti-rattle feature :D

[@klein-concept]

@@donttouchthisatall haha exactly it was fully intended 🫣

[@jarifauti4586]

Interne Kabelführung sieht ja eventuell nett aus, macht aber keinen Spaß bei der Instalation. / Internal cable routing might look nice, but the instal sucks kinda.

[@klein-concept]

Ja ist deutlich mehr arbeit aber finde es lohnt sich. Mal schaun wie einfach die maintenance sein wird.

[@jarifauti4586]

@@klein-concept Ist auf jeden Fall was besonderes. Aber viel wichtiger ist, dass es gut fährt. Darum kauft man ja einen gut gebauten Stahlrahmen. Und wenn du dir die Arbeit machen willst, ist es deine Entscheidung. Aber viel Wartung wird nicht nötig sein. Außer Akku laden und Bremsen entlüften wirst du nicht viel machen müssen. Wünsche Gute Fahrt.

[@klein-concept]

@@jarifauti4586 danke dir. Fährt sich super das teil und macht gut spass. Will gerne einmal im jahr die lager im steuersatz reinigen und nachfetten. Mal sehen wie das wird mit dem integrierten vorbau 🫣

[@BioStuff415]

nice....

[@klein-concept]

Thank you 🫶

[@virgopaul1]

Is the fork steel?

[@klein-concept]

No it is a columbus carbon fork.

[@thedronescene7474]

What size is the bike?

[@klein-concept]

It is a size 56

[@darkotto5044]

Fairlight or Standert?

[@klein-concept]

I visually prefer the Standert ones but have also not ridden a Fairlight.

[@andreirlmeier]

Muss gestehen , im thumbnail habe ich "kein Concept" gelesen

[@klein-concept]

Trifft auch ein wenig zu 😂😂

[@andreirlmeier]

Ist die Rahmenfarbe vielleicht "Carbon schwarz metallic" ( ist im Licht bläulich ) von BMW ??

[@klein-concept]

@@andreirlmeier Glaube nicht. Die ist auch so recht bläulich auch ohne direktes licht.

[@waldchiller4695]

You are missing more shots of the bike.

[@klein-concept]

There will be a proper ride video coming soon after i put more km on it 🤜🤛

[@FlorianAbrahamson]

If steel is so great why the carbon fork, carbon handlebar and carbon rims?

[@klein-concept]

It is an amazing material for a frame. From my perspective most of the actual ride feel comes from the frame when you compare to the contribution that a seatpost, handlebars or even wheels have. But of course another important factor is weight. And while i love steel i would not want to ride a 10+ kg road bike on some of the climbs i m doing.

[@comedyman112]

why don't you just use SRAM instead of routing stupid extra cables through the handlebars?

[@klein-concept]

I heard that Dura Ace still has superior shifting especially when it comes to the front derailleur but I am already having my eyes on a Sram setup to make my own opinion about that rumor 🫣

[@dioright]

It sounds mean, but consider to get a smaller glasses. Current one looks goofy and hilarious.

[@klein-concept]

But i m a goofy an hilarious guy 🫣

[@Minwary]

This video would have been 30% shorter with SRAM wireless

[@klein-concept]

Lol but you have a point. Keeping my eyes on the second hand market for a red etap for a while.

[@Carftymk]

have you installed the newest gen groupset? bleeding the brakes is such a pleasure compared to that piece of shit last generation

[@klein-concept]

I wish. Still running that 11 speed setup. But glad to hear the new one is even easier to bleed. Are you running the new one?

[@Carftymk]

@@klein-concept only one. i broke the front caliper when installing my 11 speed GRX800 and a new gen 105 caliper was only 5e more than old gen and i really don't regret it. the calipers are an insane upgrade. don't have anything else from new gen... yet

[@klein-concept]

Ah so you can mix new calipers with old shifters? 🤩

[@Carftymk]

@@klein-concept of course, its the same hose standard. my shifters aren't even di2, they are just mechanical GRX

[@klein-concept]

Love it. Will put the upgrade on my list. Thank you.

[@peacefrog887]

Ma da,usrali se, a imaju i od koga hihihihi

[@klein-concept]

😂🫶😂

[@Qbyk95]

Still Israel!

[@klein-concept]

What do you mean?

[@Qbyk95]

@@klein-concept Steel is real 😄

[@klein-concept]

@@Qbyk95 😂😂 agreed 🤜🤛

[@frankboyer1490]

Mechanical disc/rim brakes > Hydraulic

[@klein-concept]

@@frankboyer1490 how?

[@frankboyer1490]

@@klein-concept No fluids needed or bleeding :P

[@klein-concept]

@@frankboyer1490 yes that process really sucks. but i think i would not go for mechanical disc. Then rather stay with a good rim setup 🫶

[@frankboyer1490]

@@klein-concept But mechanical disc would be better for gravel, no? I've just never had any issues stopping with them so why add more complexity?

[@klein-concept]

@@frankboyer1490 ok that might be. And i agree it is no fun but as far as the reviews i ve seen the performance of a full hydro set still outperforms a good mechanical one by far. But that doesnt mean that its needed tho.

[@eloquentom.9600]

PNS und Standert. Wenn da nicht einer voll auf der Hipster Schiene fährt. Puh….

[@klein-concept]

Erwischt 🫣😂😂. Aber mal spass bei seite. Es gibt leider nicht viele alternativen für modernen stahl an den ich leicht und für den preis rankommen könnte. Fahre mein altes Daccordi mit 1 zoll vorbau und felgenbremsen genau so gerne.

[@JeffreyWilliams-dr7qe]

Disc brakes on any steel frame is not right.

[@klein-concept]

I know what you mean but personally i would rather have disc on modern steel than no modern steel at all. Of course there are all the things that we hate about disc but maybe modern steel bikes like this will change the minds of some carbon riders which will then start exploring custom steel or even retro steel with rim brakes.

[@antoinedoinell]

i must say...standert's rear drop outs are very ugly and look outdated

[@klein-concept]

I kind of like them. I guess they are going for a classic look so it might be intended to give them the outdated look. Do you have any other steel bike in mind which you would say looks way better in regards to the dropouts? 🫶

[@antoinedoinell]

i think that style suits rim brake frames better. I've seen it on disc but it's more much elegantly machined and better proportioned. Older Firefly bikes come to mind. It's subjective and i am very particular! Pls don't be offended! Round drops seem to be universally used among custom builders and few manufacturers here in the US. Ritchey road logic, breadwinner a-road as examples. My personal fav with just regards to elegance and simplicity in the custom world would have to be the stelbel rodano disc. happy riding, congrats on the new bike! i'm sure it's a beautiful ride. that matters most!

[@klein-concept]

@@antoinedoinell thanks a lot for the examples. Especially that Stelbel looks beautiful. I think now i know what you mean. I m not offended at all. All good 🤜🤛 as i didnt design the frame myself 😂😂

[@JUST-TAP-IT-IN]

1 hour long video and barely a single shot of the bike without you in the way of it. Big glasses and bigger ego. Let's see the actual bike next time

[@klein-concept]

😂🫶