Is the Peugeot 405 Mi16 secretly better than the 205 GTI? (POV driving review)

I found myself in the possession of two legendary French cars, but wait, one of them has actually been forgotten.
Let me explain. Try searching on KZbin:
"Peugeot 405 Mi16 review"
You will find my video as the second result (as of now), with only 200 views.
That's how forgotten the Mi16 has become. No one is talking about them, no one.
In this video, I try to answer the question of why the 405 Mi16 has been largely forgotten, and does it deserve a second chance to outshine the 205 GTI and become the new golden boy for the prancing lion?
Intro Music:
Song: Long Silent
Artist: Mounika

[@jasoncooke1999]

Sold my mint red 205 mi16 and just bought a mint red 306 rallye only 1 of 200 made for UK market. A lot of fun !

[@FizzyMotors]

Oh I wish we can get the 306 Rallye here. such a purist's car

[@richiamd]

Thanks mate, I own a 94 phase 2, same problem with brakes .. What a great car.

[@alfamonk]

Very nicely explained man…good work

[@FizzyMotors]

Thanks!

[@martyldl6238]

Great video welldone.

[@bernarddsilva8050]

Sawadeekap bro. Both great cars, glad to see Pugs alive in Thailand. Used to have 404 and 504s back in the 70s and 80s. Driving DS these days

[@FizzyMotors]

Lol thanks, you have great taste!

[@flexorcist]

Very accurate description of a ph2 in all regards!!

[@FizzyMotors]

Glad you think so! thanks!

[@markscuderia8328]

I like your driving style so cool

[@FizzyMotors]

Thanks bro

[@Soussmeboules]

Good that you have 205 GTI (and 205 in general) and 405 MI16 in Thailand. My wife is from Indonesia, and over there the 205 wasn't sold unfortunately. They missed something. In Indonesia I saw 405, 504, 505, 406, 407, 206, 605, RCZ, 806, 807, 3008, 508, 307 and 306 (only in 3 volume, not as hatchback), but it they almost never sold those with the most powerful engines available and not as GTI (except the 505, and the 208 which I never saw there until now). The 205 was my first car back in the early 90's in France, but not as GTI. 205 GTI nowadays are not very affordable in good condition in Europe. Even where I live in Germany they are more expensive than Golf 1 GTI. It was a great car, fun to drive and very reliable, but so was the 405 too. The best performance Peugeot of that era would be 309 GTI16 or even better the 306 S16 in my opinion. You had the same engine of the 406 MI 16 with 160 hp (updated XU10 with 167 hp on the 306) for only 1000 kg. The 309 had slightly more weight than the 205, and a slightly greater wheelbase than the 205 and 20 cm less than the 405. It was better balanced. The 306 especially with the rear wheel steering was a great weapon on curvy roads. I think one of the reason of the iconic status of the 205 GTI compared to 405, 306 or 309 is due lot more involvement by Peugeot Sport in competition with the 205. The 205 T16 domination in Rallye Group B which was top of the league in Rallye, as well as in Rallyecross and Rallye Raid (Paris-Dakar...) made it famous in all Europe, and it had the status of almighty hot hatch in the 80's. On the other hand 205 GTI were also very popular and successful in regional/national Rallye competitions. With some engine swap (405 T16 engine or 2.0 TCT from 605/Xantia tuned to 250, 300, 400 hp or more with both engine, or less powerful but more revvy 405 MI16 or 306 S16 engine) they are still big threat nowadays for Porsche or BMW M3 in racetrack as I saw sometimes on the Nürburgring. The 405 unfortunately competed only in Rallye Raid and Pikes-Peak. The 309 was only in Group N rallyes for privateers. The 306 got almost nothing except the almighty 306 Maxi at the end of its life. It was one of the best FWD with Citroen Xsara in Rallye history and the best sound to ever come from a 4 cylinder N/A engine. 2.0 liter going over 10000 rpm and screaming like hell. This is why Sébastien Loeb bought one and rebuilt it new. It was his dream car. This car was faster on tarmac than WRC AWD Turbo cars like Subaru Impreza, Ford Escort, Mitsubishi Evo, Toyota Corolla. I miss these old Peugeot.

[@FizzyMotors]

Wow thank you for your very detailed information. It's packed full of knowledge, love it! Cool to hear that your wife is from Indonesia, I go there once or twice a year for business trips! very nice people I must say. To be honest, my 205 GTI is not a real GTI, because the "real" GTI was never sold in Thailand. and so, I did what I could to make it as mechanically close as possible. If you're eagle eyed enough you'll see the interior on my "GTI" is not a real GTI interior, and also the Fuel Filler cap is not not GTI too. But mechanically, speaking, it should be as close to GTI as possible. I got the GTI 1.9 engine imported from the UK with the gearbox. and also installed the front subframe with the wishbones, and a few more things... All that being said, the "205GTI" is still probably my favourite car to drive that I own, and I own quite a few cars lol.

[@marcjaggi358]

I got a 405 t16 and i asked me the same question.You did a realy good video. Thanks

[@FizzyMotors]

Thanks glad you enjoyed it

[@FizzyMotors]

Oh wait i saw your car is a T16?? Wow that car must be a beast! Please tell me how the steering feel on it feels like? I would like to know if it's marginally less communicative because of the four wheel drive system. Thanks!

[@marcjaggi358]

I think the steering feels quite direct and easy. I changed to a slightly smaller steering wheel. It made the car razor sharp to feel it in the curves. You are right it is a beast. The T16 is a bit heavier it needs the turbo. You have to know how to drive that car. That makes it so fun because the turbo comes straight with 4000 rpm. Because it is 4wd and turbo, you have to match rpms correctly. The 4 wd is 52/48 it means the more you accelerate the more it controls in tight curves. I also have a new audi with 4wd and turbo and the same amount of hp. You know turbo almost does not feel it is so well integrated. It's for shure faster but the T16 feels much faster and more fun. The weight does a lot on a car. those cars go for a lot of money today but i will never sell it. Greetings from Sweden Marc

[@FizzyMotors]

wow thanks for your detailed response. that's very interesting for me to learn. I am very curious to test drive it now. Cheers, CU

[@heidirosenz]

Had a 1992 405 mi16 had frequent check engine light. Sold for a 1990 Mazda Mx5. Still miss the 405. Great drivers car plenty of steering feel great handling but always felt lacking torque maybe the extra weight doesn’t help but good top end. Gear ratios were a bit weird for cruising.excellent sound system. Really comfortable.

[@FizzyMotors]

Thanks for sharing. I used to have an NA Miata too. Great little car!

[@Wreck-Gar]

I agree with you. I have a 205 1.9 GTI and the 405 Mi16 doesn't get enough coverage.

[@FizzyMotors]

Yea unfortunately i cannot understand French. I believe there are some good content out there in the French KZbin community

[@sanitymetal]

The flat torque curve is unfortunately a result of the 148 bhp DFW engine with catalytic converter. The D6C variant sold in not as strict emissions countries was wayyy more torquey and had roughly 160 bhp and another inlet cam. Good video and review nonetheless ;)

[@FizzyMotors]

ah I see. thanks for the explanation

[@benjaminpetra7468]

Lovely French spesis on earth ... Love from Malaysia

[@russellgowers5084]

I have a 405 Sri and I love it. Its the same 1.9litre 8 valve engine as the 205 GTI.

[@FizzyMotors]

I love how torquey these engines are

[@mahziyargm1671]

405😍

[@chevroletcamaro3885]

Hows the e34 going ? Also where do you get all these cars from lol

[@FizzyMotors]

The E34 is with my friend, will be coming home soon. Still haven't had the time to change the ecu yet. The 205 is mine, but the 405 belongs to my friend. He is very kind to let me drive it for a week

[@ywa8815]

I think 405 mi16 is most faster than 205 gti

[@FizzyMotors]

on paper the 405 should be faster, but in reality they seem evenly matched. The 205 is definitely much peppier though.

[@POVShotgun]

11:48 is that a suPra?!

[@FizzyMotors]

Was hoping someone would point it out

[@goodluck-jc3qp]

309 gti 16 the best

[@FizzyMotors]

I am going to try one day. very curious to drive it

[@jdubmotors3990]

The audio is TERRIBLE!

[@FizzyMotors]

Lol i know! I was still learning how to make videos during this time. Ive since gotten better. Bought a clip on mic and using FCPX software to adjust audio levels.