Is The Seventh Day Adventist Church a Cult? Live discussion

[@ReboneMora-we2oo]

Brother Fitz, I think you said everything right… its the format of the conversation that doesnt favor your character, personality and style of getting your points across. You have been presented with a problem in the form of a question, the same question over and over again simply because once you set out to make your point, you were not ready for interjection, which is how a [conversation] will always go, to improve this, Id say be aware of making your entire point in a few sentences than long form as you have been used to on your channel. The Host, was asking simply, “make me see that EGW is not saying what I think She is saying” and you focused mostly on what EGW is saying, says and believes and totally gave little to no interest on the hosts CONCERNS. You also made a fatal mistake also by assuming that he was a careless reader who took statements out of context, and clearly from his train of thought, it was not so. The Host has the statements he is grappling with highlighted, and your job was to reconcile the ones he agrees with, with the one he sees to be erroneous, not a simply task, but the actual assignment, and had most of your efforts been focused there, youd go over fewer Bible verses, with more accuracy. This conversation felt uncomfortable on your behalf, I also think, being the guest, you took the defense and felt the need to defend than to make direct statements as an equal participant and interlocutor. I wanted to enjoy this, but it was honestly uncomfortable given that brother Fitz knows exactly what he believes, but was having trouble getting across while having a conversation with someone who not only claims to not agree but was pressing where it hurts. If you felt, troubled, pressured, as if the name of the church was on your back, I am sorry, it was totally you and your beliefs and I hope other Adventists can learn this.

[@kevint.2706]

@@ReboneMora-we2oo This is a very honest assessment of this conversation.

[@iThinkBiblically]

Yeah, I feel like this was a good assessment. I’m wondering if a debate format would have been better. I’m not sure.

[@johnwalker9734]

​@@iThinkBiblically You seem to be saying you have no work to do in your own salvation. We are rescued, justified by faith but we have to get up everyday and dedicate our efforts to God. How do you produce the fruit of faith without works?

[@revelyn1986]

​@@iThinkBiblically25:30 would have loved to be involved with the live over in Yorkshire, UK. Its really *dangerous* to quote EGW, her books are meant to be used like a devotional not a study guide. she herself has stated in her books "do not to quote me, read the bible and find the things I am saying for yourself" One of the things which is special about the SDA Church. Its belief that we are to live solely by Biblical truths 'thus saith the Lord'. The sabbath which we are heavily linked to, is extremely important to God. When else did he bless and hallow time itself.. Jesus did not bless and hallow Sunday. Did God un-bless the sabbath?

[@Escaped_ofthe_Nations_Isa4_2]

It is really quite easy to criticize someone who has been dead for over 100 years and cannot defend herself and the things that she wrote.

[@beitel7]

I think this was the most respectful, helpful, mature discussion I’ve ever heard. I found it helpful hearing both points of view. I wish more discussions were like this instead of people pointing fingers and saying, “you’re wrong! I’m right.” After all I believe we have the same goal; To know Jesus and make Him known. May we all continue to prayerfully study the word and daily surrender our hearts to Him.

[@mijornadaadventista7742]

Brother Fitzroy did a great explanation and provided several bible text, its sad to see people who can't analyse the bible in its whole context. I haven't heard before about brother Fitzroy, im going to check his channel, thanks to this viideo

[@mrfelix2510]

You're going to love his videos, they are very well done.

[@CheyenneRosero]

I am not sure if this was a fruitful conversation in bringing people to a better understanding of SDA beliefs. From what I understand the host had some issues with specific Ellen White quotes that they were using as a basis for the conversation, but I think we would have benefitted from just discussing doctrinal differences like the state of the dead, salvation, the Sabbath, etc. solely based on Bible verses rather than trying to put EGW in context AND also defend the doctrinal differences at the same time. Also, it was difficult for the guest to get their point across the finish line without interruption from the host. I understand differences wanted to be addressed but a question/ concern was brought up, let it be addressed by the guest and then either continue on with that concern or divert back to the secondary issue that was identified in the process. That really took the conversation all over the place.

[@lemonadesoda1669]

I thought the same thing he kept interrupting the guest and going on a rabbit hole n a circle with lines of EGW it was very upsetting honestly. The guest behaved so politely calmly and maturely ( I def wouldn't bc the host kept interrupting in such a disappointing way and asking more questions as the guest was still answering the first making it hard for both of them to lead the convo and even confuse themselves) Guest also firmly gave solid answers n confirmed everything he would said with the Bible. The scriptures are very complex to understand and to fully comprehend we need the Holy Spirit to guide us in each line to see the full picture and to see those who were enlighten w wisdom that comes from above only! Amazing guest ! God bless him! :)

[@GregSereda]

Adventists believe that salvation is by grace through faith which produces good works. It's not rocket science and it doesn't take 40 minutes to figure out. I'm 40 minutes into this video and the interviewer can't seem to get past that. It's like he's bent on trying to prove Adventists teach works-based salvation. Dude, give it up and move on.

[@truthbetold8787]

I'm guessing you're a SDA?

[@GregSereda]

@@truthbetold8787 Yeah.

[@truthbetold8787]

@@GregSereda Okay. I don't know much about them or what they believe. This is the first time hearing anything about them

[@100superaguila1]

@@GregSeredaAdventist teach one is saved by grace through faith. Not our works, but the works Christ does through us. Ephesians 2:8-10 “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.” That does not mean grace is a liscence to sin. Rather it means true faith produces obedience/ works to God and that through his grace and mercy we have a chance to be saved.

[@100superaguila1]

@@GregSeredaIf I am correct you quote this one time: Grace is not a liscence to sin. That right there is amazing

[@2Timothy2.15]

We are saved by faith alone but the faith that saves is not alone. Without works our faith is a dead faith (James 2:26).

[@metapolitikgedanken612]

Those are works that flow from being regenerate. It's not 'the flesh trying harder to comply with the law and little rules'.

[@davidbermudez7704]

Read James 2:14-26 not only one verse

[@twocrackedeggs]

Fair... so what do you make of our evil works, because both the good and evil are present in you right now. Meaning your works are mixed with evil and therefore not righteous in totality. So how do those works grant you salvation?

[@2Timothy2.15]

@@metapolitikgedanken612 Correct. The faith that saves is a faith that produces works. If a branch produces no fruit then that branch is cut off (John 15:2).

[@2Timothy2.15]

@@davidbermudez7704 James 2:26 is a summation of James 2:14-25.

[@dankelly8035]

I am always skeptical of someone who wants to believe that works do not matter and that their faith is enough to get by. What are they trying to avoid in their walk? They are looking to take the wide path to everlasting life. That does not work.

[@HOMELESSAREPEOPLE]

Who is the Fitz guy, he knows the scriptures. I like how he studies line upon line. he makes sense … according to scripture

[@xboxice2005]

Agree.

[@michaelnewzealand1888]

They both know the scripture well

[@jholyroller6048]

Satan knows scripture that don't mean anything if you know scripture that won't save you Jesus alone Fitz is going to hell if he dont leave the sda church

[@jholyroller6048]

I think it's funny sda try to exclude ther self from elen g white that's like saying your free mason but don't follow ther teaching that's a hypocrite

[@TheSchoolofEden-vt3ho]

@homelessa His channel is Midnight Cry Media

[@JonathanGardnerPotsMinistries]

Ok so after watching this discussion and reading the main quote that ithinkbiblically posted, I’ve read the entire meeting manuscript and want to share how this has been easily misunderstood. The quote is in the video but Ellen is clearly not saying that we have to do works in order to be reconciled in the sense of our works saves us, suggested by the interviewer. Notice the quote a few paragraphs back. She talks of Adam and Eve who disrupted the relationship with God because of their sin and then goes on to talk about Christ. “Jesus was tempted in all points like as we are, that He might know how to succor those who should be tempted. His life is our example. He shows by His willing obedience that man may keep the law of God and that transgression of the law, not obedience to it, brings him into bondage….” Jesus did all of this why? “He pleads and reasons with the sinner, and in one sense-that of having Himself borne the weakness of humanity-He puts Himself on a level with him. “Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.” - {4T 294.1} So it’s not only to save us from sin but to RESTORE the relationship between God and man by wanting us to come and reason with him based on what he has done for us due to our SIN. Now notice the quote in the video. “Man, who has DEFACED the image of God in his soul by a corrupt life, CANNOT, by mere HUMAN EFFORT, effect a radical change in himself… So what must he do? “He must accept the PROVISIONS of the gospel;…” What does that look like? Here’s the quote “he must be reconciled to God through obedience to His law and faith in Jesus Christ. His life from thenceforth must be governed by a new principle. Through repentance, faith, and good works he may perfect a righteous character, and claim, through the merits of Christ, the privileges of the sons of God” So let’s understand it because it clearly shown in context. Jesus came to save us not from sin alone but from the broken relationship that Adam and Eve caused. The gospel is the remedy to this damage. Jesus died to save us amen! Did we deserve it? No! This is called grace! This is called justification! Now what’s next? Do we continue in our own ways? Or are we (as the quote says) “governed by a new principle.” So what’s the reconciliation about? Easy. The provision of the gospel produces fruit which is clearly what she shows. The gospel saves us from sin and gives us a new life! Obeying God’s law is a provision of the gospel, faith in Jesus keeps this process going which is also a provision of the gospel. Remember she clearly says man has defaced the image of God. So we are reconciled by restoring that relationship (which is what reconciliation means…restoring a relationship). This is why Jesus says if you love me (relationship language) keep my commandments. Also why call me Lord and do NOT the things which I say. Notice this verse too. Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to RECONCILE all things UNTO HIMSELF; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. Col 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he RECONCILED. Col 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: Then it says this: Col 1:23 *IF* ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; So notice that Jesus reconciled us but it didn’t just end there. We were also alienated by wicked works but have also been reconciled….IF…..we continue in the relationship or reconciliation conditions. The Bible says we are changed into the same image from glory to glory, meaning this is a process of sanctification. So to conclude. The fact Ellen said that we must take on the GOSPEL PROVISIONS means she’s not saying we must do to be saved or reconciled. She’s talking about the provisions given to us that we are reconciled by and it’s seen through obedience and faith of Jesus. So we are not doing our works to save ourselves…we simply can’t! We defaced the image of God! Reconciliation can only happen through the requirements of obedience to his law and faith in Jesus. THEREFORE God gives us these provisions in the gospel to accomplish the restoration. It’s like the new covenant. We can’t be saved with a corrupt life. Therefore God offers the provisions by writing it on our hearts. We can’t win the daily battles against Satan. Therefore God gives the provisions….the armour of God. I pray this makes total sense.

[@beatricepineda5923]

As Adventists we will be seen as heretics but we must stand confident in the true gospel. Many want a Saviour but not a Lord to whom they must surrender and obey.

[@GodsTimings]

This needs to be pinned. Good job!

[@JonathanGardnerPotsMinistries]

@@GodsTimings I pray he reads this.

[@rubyduefrene9792]

@JonathanGardnerPotsMinistries Amen, Amen, Amen!!! Definitely agree that this needs to be pinned!!!

[@GodsTimings]

Iv read this 5 times. You are so clear and understandable!

[@Signs_of_God_Ministry]

Enjoyed the discussion. (Would have been nicer if you hadn't interrupted the guest so often.) I have been a Christian all my life...raised in the Pentecostal faith since childhood. Yesterday (9-21-2024), at the age of 61, I was baptized into the Seventh-day Adventist church. I am happy and at peace with that decision. I have decided to follow Jesus. No turning back. 😇

[@R1rippin]

@Signs_of_God_Ministry: And that is unfortunate! Being baptized into the SDA cult is not good! SDA's are NOT Christian! They believe Jesus is Michael the Archangel, there is no Hell, Jesus did not pay for the sins of ours at the Cross, Allah (same false god of the muslims) is Creator God, Supported H/I/T/L/E/R and helped him round up jews to be M/U/R/D/E/R/E/D lied and denied it for 60 years until they got busted around 2003, LGBTQ can become members and serve - same with Transgenders, they are also pro-choice and the list goes on! Does that sound like a Godly organization to be in?

[@FishermensCorner]

that's cool. nice to meet you.

[@kevin12061998]

That's awesome and all the best in your journey 👍🏾

[@michaelnewzealand1888]

praise the Lord you have decided to follow Jesus. But if you have been a Christian all your life what were you doing? Just a nominal Christian?

[@margaretakamargowilliams-c1341]

@@Signs_of_God_Ministry Amen and Amen 🙏🏽✝️♥️ Blessings. May the good Lord continue keeping you in the palm of His hand.

[@jacquesvandermerwe8923]

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

[@nonconformist4802]

And what is his commandments?

[@jacquesvandermerwe8923]

@@nonconformist4802 Exodus 20

[@Gyaradosite]

The same commands found written inside of the ark that’s in heaven as Revelation 11:19 says.

[@chapmaned24]

Love your neighbor as yourself is the only commandment under Jesus. And if you do that alone, you are also loving God, as well. Those are the commandments of God, alone.

[@chapmaned24]

​@@Gyaradositewho wrote the book of Revelation? John? In Galatians, John is the Apostle to the Jews, not gentiles.

[@user-kf6vj7we9v]

I am not SDA but the Bible is very clear that we should worship God on the Sabbath and make it Holy.

[@GodsView1]

Worship isn't the suitable word because we are to worship God everyday, the bible says to Rest on the distinctly sanctified and holy day the Sabbath.

[@user-kf6vj7we9v]

@@GodsView1 Yes.

[@chapmaned24]

That commandment was never given to the gentiles.

[@stephen6578]

The worship aspect was a feast found in Leviticus 23. The Sabbath of the 10 commanded rest. Nontheless days months and seasons of the Jewish calendar in itself is not for us gentiles including The Sabbath of the 10. If that were the case it would almost (almost all the nations and civilizations who didn't have the jewish calendar in the first century and centuries afterwards) be pointless. Salvation wouldnt be possible. What would the point be to give a law to people who couldnt keep it and then be judged by it.

[@michaelbrown7998]

@@chapmaned24 Sabbath was made for man. Not man for the Sabbath. The sabbath was there before the jews and Moses law was different from the Law of God

[@KITO1966]

We Adventists, no matter how much we may try to explain, will always be deemed a cult by evangelicals and others. That's the price to be paid for studying the Bible and following the Ten Commandments, especially the Sabbath, as well as other sound biblical doctrine such as the investigative judgment. I've learned to live with that.

[@iamnickpommells]

Amen

[@opheliadunn8724]

Truth

[@sweet1mcs]

@@KITO1966 Adventism is viewed as a cult because of EGW and all of her books that Adventism as a whole adhere to. Your president, Ted Wilson CONSTANTLY and CONSISTENTLY refers to Ellen, and also is planning on mailing out 1 BILLION copies of "The Great Controversy" worldwide! If Adventism adheres to the Bible and ONLY the Bible, why this MASSIVE undertaking to send this out??? It's not difficult to understand Adventism if you understand its roots.

[@nonconformist4802]

Its because you are a cult. You preach the 4th commandment but keep quiet about the 6th one, yes, it's happening in your own hospitals. I wonder why, is it maybe because there is big money to make out of it?

[@JesusTheNewCovenant]

Wow!!! Is the Sabbath more important than the other 9? The IJ, really? Where is this found in The Bible?

[@ambiguity4198]

"He that says I know him and keepeth not his commandments,is a liar and the truth is not in him ".1 John 2 v 4- 6

[@davidbermudez7704]

That ain’t the context

[@ambiguity4198]

@@davidbermudez7704 you people's hypocrisy knows no bounds really. It's easy for you to misquote EGW and falsify her writing by taking them out of the context,but when it suits you, you scream "out of context " hypocrites

[@danielcarranza1957]

No one can keep the law!!! Only JESUS CHRIST did it to perfection.

[@nonconformist4802]

So what's your church excuse for not keeping the six commandment?????

[@ambiguity4198]

@@danielcarranza1957 So you're not satisfied arguing with EGW,but you're going after John the apostle as well? Are you challenging wats written in 1John 2 v 4- 6? You've got a nerve,I give you that 😎

[@DelaineRobinson]

The problem here is the same problem that I had before I became 7th Day Adventist. Every Seventh-Day Adventist when having these type of discussion need to come with Bible and Bible alone. Why? We can't in moat cases tell a person who disagrees with us what we think or thought what Ellen White meant. We can't read minds especially when we are looking at one statement. Even if we could manage to accumulate quotes that may express what she is thinking. Then we will be accused of worshipping a women or a person. That would put us back where we first started as far as being in a cult.

[@Outsidekitty]

Yes, faith and works are intrinsically tied, by we are saved by faith alone. Works come immediately after, as evidence of a genuine faith.

[@ndekezipatrick]

"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law".(Roman 3:28); "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law."(Roman 3:31). It means that we are justified by grace through faith but also as in James 2:26 says "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." For clear understanding just read both chapters Roman 3 and James 2, God be with us. (KJV)

[@warrenpieterse6002]

​@@ndekezipatrickAgain it goes to show the importance of reading further! To fully understand a concept, one needs to read it all (which is what I believe Fitz was trying to bring across). What I've noticed is that the host got stuck on verse 28, but hold on verse 31 is coming...

[@joey991978]

Christians are not saved by external obedience to the law. That would be legalism. They are saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8). But obedience is not legalism when the motive is love to God. Those that happily respond to the Lord’s call “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15) are not giving obedience to try to earn salvation. The Bible says, “But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves” (James 1:22). Here, James refers to the Sermon on the Mount (Matt. 7:21-27). It is not enough to remember what we hear or even to be able to teach it to others. We must daily practice the “word of truth” (v. 18) in our personal life. Thus the apostle James is in perfect agreement with the teachings of Paul: “For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified” (Rom. 2:13). Some are taught to just believe that God will forgive them, but not enough to believe that He will give them total victory over sin. It’s a “gospel” that says God accepts you as you are and doesn’t care enough or isn’t able to give you victory. While this seems easier because it doesn’t require change, it is a false gospel (Galations 1:6, 2:17-18, Romans 6:1-2). We can’t just give in to what we want to hear, but obey God’s word from our heart (2 Timothy 4:3-4, Romans 6:15-19). God loves us enough to have sent His Son to help us overcome sin (Hebrews 2:17-18). His mission was given before He was born, “And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.” (Matthew 1:21). Jesus came to save people from their sin, not in their sin. When Christ comes into your heart, it is then He who gives us the power to obey (Galatians 2:20, Philippians 4:13). The Lord can transform you so you become a new creature. “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new” (2 Corinthians 5:17). This is the miracle of conversion that God does in the lives of those that invite Him in. A Christian is defined by a changed life. Jesus asked, “Why do you call Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do the things which I say?” (Luke 6:46). We can’t call ourselves Christians if we don’t do what He says. “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven” (Matthew 7:21). Doing the will of God means not living in sin. This becomes possible only through the grace of God. God will work with human efforts. Jesus says, “Take up [your] cross, and follow Me” (Matthew 16:24). And He adds “For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light” (Matthew 11:30). He who truly loves Christ will delight to do His will because he has been given a new nature by God (Psalms 40:8). “And he said, the things which are impossible with men are possible with God” (Luke 18:27).

[@Ranrubix]

Well said

[@JesusTheNewCovenant]

You referenced John 14:15. Now read John 15:12 to see what commandment Christ was speaking of.

[@joey991978]

@itruth983 The two great commandments Deuteronomy 6:5 KJVS And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. Leviticus 19:18 KJVS Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord . Jesus was just quoting from the OT when the lawyer asked Jesus which was the greatest commandment in the law, he received the answer: “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets” (Matthew 22:37-40). Notice that these two love commandments simply summed up “all the law and the prophets.” They all hang upon these two principles of love. Christ was saying that love is the fulfilling of the law just as Paul repeated it later in Romans 13:10. If one loves Christ supremely with heart, soul, and mind, he will obey the first four commandments that have to do with our duty to God. He will not take God’s name in vain, worship other gods, etc. If one loves his neighbor as himself, he will obey the last six commandments that relate to our duty to our fellow men. He will not be able to steal from his neighbor, lie about him, etc. Love will lead to obeying or fulfilling all the law.

[@peterpet77rp]

Bro Fitzroy. Kaleb seems like he's coming from a different foundation, once save always save, or some element of it. Maybe you need to address that first.

[@peterpet77rp]

Brother Fitz. Kaled agree that works is a result of faith. He also quoted "if you love me keep my commandments." Next time ask him what are the works and the commandments that resulted from faith and love. How do you identify them from the Bible.

[@FishermensCorner]

great catch. agreed

[@ryanrust9142]

Good morning, Permit me to answer this question about what works and the commandments that resulted from faith and love. Exodus 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. The list of commandments that follow this scripture Exodus 20:2 are known as the TEN COMMANDMENTS which all faith based Christians ( protestants) agreed upon that should be kept. If you check your local churches, Methodist church, New Testament church, Church of God, The Baptist church etc, all agreed that the 10 commandments found in Exodus 20:3-17. If you don't believe, then check the foundation or the teachings upon which the churches would have built upon. James 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed. James 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. The question is what is this Law of Liberty? Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Notice Christ freed us from the bondage. wait a minute, didn't we see this word bondage somewhere before 🤔 Exodus 20:2 and the list follows throughout verses 3 to 17. Can you look at the TEN COMMANDMENTS and say we should not keep them? if we do, then what would happen to mankind. "We would be in bondage" For example, Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill. What if this commandment was not followed? Could you safely walk during the day much less night? This commandment allows you to have freedom to walk, why because the government will punish those who threatens your life. The same goes for stealing. Should we not keep the first commandment which says Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Can you look at this commandment and say we should not keep this one? If so then what can you call yourself? Its the same for all TEN COMMANDMENT which includes the 4th which I am going to post below. Exod 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Exod 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: Exod 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: Exod 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Notice that this commandment starts by saying "Remember". How ironic its the only one taught that we should forget! Its the longest of all the ten and God expresses Himself in it to a point where it actually reflects God's character and what He would have done to deserve the title of being God. If we should forget this commandment, then it would mean also that we should forget God and His authority on our lives. But if we do keep this commandment along with the other 9, then this will show our love and appreciation to God for what He would have done for us and this would be works of faith because we are saved by Jesus Christ and that is why we keep them. John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

[@NacidoDelSol]

I actually really enjoyed this. I think that anyone watching should carefully and prayerfully study the Bible for themselves, not taking the opinions of anyone as gospel. Pray for the Holy Spirit to guide you to Truth, and you will find it

[@GD-qn7xo]

Thanks for the great discussion , lots of credit to both of you for the format and the disposition and willingness to give each other space to discuss. I am a 7th-Day Adventist, my dad was a pastor and like Fitz, my youth was spent apart from the faith. Couple of points I would make about what I heard and my own beliefs: 1. EGW is NOT the Spirit of Prophecy but rather she received and accepted it (the Holy Spirit) 2. I accept that she was was inspired but (1) she is not infallible, and (2) She said in multiple places (3) her writings should never be used to discuss biblical doctrine but rather the Bible should be used. She also said the Bible is the big light, and her writings are the little light pointing to it. - There we DO NOT follow a human but the Bible for our beliefs. 3. There is a difference of understanding of what it means to be justified by works, or having the faith to believe that Jesus can sanctify us (keep us from willfully sinning), this will have to be discussed more in the future but, either way, this point of understanding the Bible does not qualify the SDA Church as being a cult; do do not depend on EGW for this doctrine.

[@NoSundayLawComing]

I appreciate your comment. Here is something to consider why SDAs might be in the "cult" camp. All cults of Christianity claim to be *the TRUE church* . When a denomination calls itself the "true church" it is implying all the others are false. This is attitude is at the very core of a cult, where it promotes itself as the only real truthbearers. This problem is exacerbated when this "true church" has doctrine that paints other Christians in a bad light, where they are viewed as the bearers and instigators of a supposed law that will affect the "true church" negatively. All cults typically have some sort of persecution complex. They often promote a conspiracy theory where they are the victims.

[@michaelnewzealand1888]

thank you for clarifying, but if she is not infallible where is she wrong? Can you criticize or disagree with her and be an SDA? If she received the spirit of prophecy and was inspired does that put her above every other Christian in the last 2000 years?

[@johnwalker9734]

Ask 100 Adventist if we are saved by faith or works, they will tell you we are saved by faith, works are the fruit of the Spirit. But you insist on your own interpretation.

[@FishermensCorner]

dudeness, that's exactly what made me accept becoming SDA. Who was the continuous misrepresentation of their beliefs. The 28 fundamentals are clear, and the congregation and the so-called leadership also abide by grace alone through faith alone... so much so that we believe the initial repentance is still a work of the Holy Spirit working on us.

[@NateH1984]

​@@FishermensCornerAmen bro.

[@charnelallan7159]

NO UR DOCTRINES SAYS THE OPPOSITE. IF UR SAVED WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THE INVESTIGATIVE JUDGEMENT ?

[@charnelallan7159]

​@@FishermensCornerIF ur saved why the investigative judgement ? Ur SOP SAID THE BLOOD OF CHRIST DID NOT BLOT OUT SIN , THEY GO ON RECORD IN THE HEAVENLY SANCTUARY UNTIL THE INVESTIGATIVE JUDGEMENT IS COMPLETED SOME WILL BE ACCEPTING SOME WILL BE REJECTED. U SHOW ME WHERE IS THE ASDURANCE IN THIS TEXT SHE FURTHER STATED EVERY ONE FROM ADAM WILL GO THROUGH IMMENSE SCRUTINY FIRST THE LIVING THEN THE DEAD. SINCE EVERY DAY PEOPLE ARE BORN WHEN WILL THIS END?

[@FishermensCorner]

@@charnelallan7159 Because the promise salvation is today, comes when Jesus returns. not clear? "Investigative judgment" is the event typology before a punishment... brah... pretty simple

[@JaneNtene]

Thank you gentlemen for a good debate.What I have learned is that the SDA Church is not a cult since all its doctrines are based on the Bible.

[@nonconformist4802]

You are a supreme example of someone who's brainwashing program was a success.

[@charnelallan7159]

Right guide by the Sop who says réconciliation is by law keeping and faith a direct contradiction to the SCRIPTURES ?

[@FishermensCorner]

​@@charnelallan7159 lol dude, still on that refuted nonsense

[@neiljoseph2330]

A doctrine being biblical doesn't mean it is not a cult doctrine. It can be twisted. Just like Paul wrote about a false gospel in Galatians 1. To tell anyone that they are not saved if they do not keep the Sabbath is FALSE. If you are going to keep the 10 Commandments and want to be justified by it then ensure you are keeping the WHOLE LAW. The 10 Commandments are part of the law. If you want to be justified that way make sure you keep to that standard alone.

[@FishermensCorner]

@@neiljoseph2330 incorrect, because the Sabbath is literally about coming into the presence of God, buy submission of our Dominion Authority he gave us before there was sin. See what you've exposed is a fundamental misunderstanding of what the Sabbath is... if you refuse to give up your dominion authority, and you refused to come in the absolute faith and presence of god, You Are by definition not saved. It has nothing to do with works, a rituals, a quite literally is about submitting the Dominion Authority given to us, and having full faith in his completed work and not our own. That's what the Sabbath is. This is why it was never disputed to keep the Sabbath for thousands of years, and the idea that we don't have to keep it anymore is a recent modern invention. The argument wasn't about sabbatarianism, but which day sabbatarianism was allowed...

[@TheHolyAvatior]

In my opinion it seems the host wanted brother Fitzroy to say that we are only saved by faith only and the law is not necessary. It’s a tough area to start from if you wanted understand what the SDA entails.

[@FishermensCorner]

Will the host was trying to make the claim that SDA does not believe in grace alone by faith alone, and that's absolutely false

[@charnelallan7159]

SO WHY R U BEING INVESTIGATED IF U HAVE ASSURANCE?​@@FishermensCorner

[@gary777]

In my humble opinion, I think the host is trying to beat a dead horse. Why debate being reconciled to God through obedience to His Law? Isn't sin the transgression of the law?? We certainly wouldn't be reconciled by disobedience to His Law. It was disobedience that started this mess of sin we are now dealing with.

[@kevint.2706]

I'm guessing the host wouldn't see it that way, as he stated several times when presented with scripture. And I agree, a dead horse was beaten to many times.

[@iThinkBiblically]

We are reconciled to God by faith apart from works.

[@charnelallan7159]

Which law ? Apostle Paul is writing in context hé being born a jew UNDER THE LAW. Romans 5,13 FOR SIN WAS IN THE WORLD BEFORE THE LAW WAS GIVEN. SO THE OVERALL DÉFINITION OF SIN IS NOT BASED ON THE MOSAIC LAW BECAUSE SIN PREDATZD THE MOSAIC LAW

[@charnelallan7159]

So réconciliation according to adventism is based on faith and law keeping. Thats not SCRIPTURES u just shot urself in thre foot

[@100superaguila1]

@@iThinkBiblicallyJames 2:14, 2:20, and 2:26 tell us faith without works is dead. Ephesians 2:8-10 tells us our own works do not save us, it is the works Jesus Christ does through us when we put our faith in him.

[@gonzalez990]

Brother Fitz , great exposure of what Law and grace, thank you

[@charnelallan7159]

THERE IS NO LAW AND GRACE IN SCRIPTURES JUSTIFICATION IS APART FROM THE LAW

[@krackmusik97224]

Ex seventh day Adventist here Yes they are definitely a cult.

[@AyonBaxter]

Based on the comments posted I can see that a lot of people still have not gotten the key point to the question. Both sides have agreed that works will follow the new life, but, the fact is we CANNOT claim the merits of God and Christ by any form of works. That is the problem with the EGW statement-good works is included as an element needed to receive the merits necessary to become sons (and daughters) of God. On the other hand, the Bible tells us unequivocally that the grace of God, the salvation of God, is received as a gift, so no man can boast of doing anything to achieve it.

[@Olympic_TryAthlete]

Some like to counter that we are saved by faith and not works. That is true if we are speaking of works performed without faith, or in the place of faith, not works performed in faith. Trying to earn salvation through works is just the Devil’s way to keep us separated from God until we successfully achieve the impossible. We will never achieve it. But that does not mean that faith renders works indispensable for salvation. Ephesians 2:10 makes it clear that we are created (or recreated) for good works. And since John says that sin is lawlessness (disobedience to God’s law, not man’s) and Paul says that whatever is not of faith is sin, it is not a stretch to state that disobedience to God’s law is, at its core, an expression of faithlessness. The only faith that saves you is the faith that is exercised and put into action. No action only reveals that real faith hasn’t yet been received into the heart. With that said, what is the basis for worshipping God? Revelation 4:11 and Revelation 14:6-7 give a good hint. And for good measure, Paul, when introducing the true God to the Athenians used the same line of logic by which to identify Him - He is the Creator. In all of the Bible, God has given but one token, or emblem by which His identity as the true God is signified - The Seventh Day Sabbath. It is the only day that God has expressly claimed as His own. The only day that He Himself has declared to be holy, independently from the holy feast days which could fall on any day of the week and which ended with the anti-type. In not one instance is the 1st day of the week declared holy. Worship on that day in the NT is merely as incidental as worship done on the other days mentioned in Acts 2:46. People argue so much about faith over works, but they don’t have the faith to just accept the day that God has set aside to remind them that He is the Creator and thus worthy of worship. Instead, by works of their own, they choose the day themselves, and flatter themselves that they are doing it for God. Perhaps not on an individually conscious level, but tradition has done that for them and they don’t even realize it.

[@AWomanSanctified-tc1eu]

When Fitz said can we pray, I knew how the conversation will go.... Jesus prayed for us in John 17:17 and I pray we will open our hearts for Him to sanctify us by the "Knowledge of God" through the Holy Spirit.

[@thenowchurch6419]

Fitz, you must eventually realize that regardless of correct quotes from Mrs White on salvation, no amount of contextual analysis is going to correct statements she made that contradict the real salvation by Faith apart from works. The fact that she and the SDA preaches the heretical Investigative Judgement doctrine establishes that she did not believe in salvation by Faith apart from works.

[@jesusislord77712]

Amen

[@reformed2018]

It's good for you to have conversations like this. I talked to an SDA before on Facebook about the investigative judgment and I was blocked. Then another on the Sabbath, the same they blocked me on their page.

[@maxprieto3838]

Fitz God bless you and protect you.. keep doing what you are doing..

[@danielchidaushe1559]

Thank you both for a respectable discussion. You don't have to agree but you have to respect each other as christians

[@intheinterestofthings2848]

How did you guys decide to start where you did? In the middle of testimonies volume 4?! That’s a hard way to do things. Perhaps you should have gone over obvious ground, even common ground so that you can both see where you part ways. For example you didn’t talk about what sin is, and why we have to keep the commandments. The host I think would take the position that because it’s a command we should obey the commandments but not for salvation. If we break them we are covered because Jesus covers our faults, so we need not worry about that too much. The SDA would assert that the damage that comes from sin is real and we ought not to let things go and think “no big deal, I’m good with God” when we lie or steal people are hurt, relationships are broken and pain spreads all over and God is blasphemed. Think of Ravi Zacharias and the molestation scandals. This is why we ought to never say “I’m still good with God”. When we have just done a dastardly deed. It’s not about going to heaven only. There is harm done which we have to do our best to undo by the grace of God. Further when we obey it means we are loving people. We do things to make their lives better. This is obedience, taking care of people, remembering to trust God in all things, appreciating his peace, intervention and great plan for us and the cosmos. The sick are healed, sinners experience love and receive hope. Obey the commands is not about what being under or not being under, it’s about the opportunity to be an instrument in God’s hand to bring more good into the world. Let your light shine. The concern with being sent to hell is very much a block to clear thinking. How much worse when the definition of Hell is bad. Jude v2 2 Thessalonians 3 1 John 4

[@TonyR_]

As an Adventist I just want to say thank you to both brothers - this is how it should be done. Both were sincerely interested in the others point of view, rather than throwing around gotcha questions and try and make the other stumble; point scoring etc. I was blessed by this interaction. And I know for some it may have seemed like they spent a lot of time on certain questions, that's okay. Sometimes it not as simple as giving a 30 sec reply and moving on. If people are genuinely still not sure they've flushed out what they're trying to get across, then more discussion may be needed.

[@iThinkBiblically]

Thanks for the comment mate. I think people wanted to see a point scoring smack down. Thats unfortunate I think. We can make normal videos for that, but I just wanted a conversation. Having said that, I felt like he wasn’t answering my question. But hey next time will be better I hope.

[@TonyR_]

@@iThinkBiblically Thanks

[@eclipsesonic]

@@iThinkBiblically Yeah, I felt the same way. He was just side-stepping, rather than addressing Ellen G White's claims head on.

[@prestongolson5063]

@@iThinkBiblicallywith all due respect I feel he did answer, but you had a specific answer you wanted and anything short of that was insufficient in your mind. That’s fine but as many Christians have done throughout history we just say our interpretation is different and that we all should prayerfully consider. I also felt when he’d make a salient point you’d move the discussion. Now I’m SDA so I recognize my bias here. Just sharing my reaction. Overall though appreciate the conversation. Society needs more respectful dialogue and you certainly did that. God bless.

[@Breadforfood]

Praise God for Brother Fitz for your patience and desire to save souls because this conversation was one sided and this gentlemen did not allow you to speak and complete your thoughts. He kept interrupting and refused to listen. It didnt seem like he was trying to understand, he was just here to talk. May God be with him! He will be held accountable for this conversation. God bless.

[@charnelallan7159]

Its amazing , ur analyses of the conversation was BIAS. The sda pastor was confronted on a particular statement from ur SOP WHERE SHE CLEARLY QUOTE THAT RÉCONCILIATION IS BY OBÉDIENCE TO THE LAW AND FAITH IN JESUS. THE SDA PASTOR IGNORES THE QUESTION WHETHER THIS CONTRADICTS SCRIPTURES AND ATTEMPTS TO GO TO OTHER QUOTES TO JUSTIFY AN OVERVIEW. TYPICAL OF SDA. HE IGNORED THE QUESTION CITING ISAIAH 28 WHOCH OS A REBUKE AND NOT A HERMANUTICAL RULE INTERPRÉTATION OF SCRIPTURES. U SDA'S R PROOFTEXT KINGS AND QUEENS YET U CRY CONTEXT

[@kennedynyangenyo9456]

Hi, Can I chat with the host? I know many Adventist believers don't understand their faith. But can anyone be saved by anything else? At 17.3 "reconciliation:" is apart from works the same as ""without works""? The man at Bethesda, was he reconciled before he walked or during and as he walked? Would he have been reconciled if he didn't OBEY? kindly read 2Cor5:19.

[@Kcheatsheet]

Both gentlemen are talking past each other (in my opinion). One has a Great controversy paradigm and brings this to the biblical text and the other doesn't. Same words and terms are being used but the Great controversy paradigm puts a different spin on them. All this is inherited from EGW. Anyone see an issue here??

[@ambiguity4198]

Only people who see problems with Paul's teachings are the same who sees problems with EGW writings

[@raulvaldemar]

Agree, would be best to focus on a single bible passage and just state clearly the bottom line of theology or what the individuals believes is correct. It appears most of the time, double-sided answers were given, salvation by faith AND salvation by works. Can't have both. Either way, it was an amicable discussion of two brothers in Christ, good will come from this.

[@Kcheatsheet]

​@@ambiguity4198 lol this is such an oxymoron!! I won't comment further..

[@murahomesa]

I was a strong Catholic going to church 52 Sundays and was going to be a priest. Then I read the Bible in Genesis Chapter 2 and found the 7th day is the true Sabbath and I was worshipping on the wrong day. I asked the priest if the RC church was above God? He told me it was changed. It did not agree with what the Bible teaches in Genesis chapter 2. He also said he did not believe in the Holy Spirit. I am now a pastor in the SDA church doing International Evangelism. Being used by the Lord to call on his name to cast out demons in African countries.

[@juligraham7319]

No, Seventh-day Adventists are absolutely not a cult. Unless following the Bible makes one a cult.

[@hubertcisneros5151]

Consider this: Jesus was a cult leader. He had a prophet in his cult - John the Baptist. When you read the gospels you will see that the religious leaders called Jesus a cult leader. Jesus was crucified because he was convicted by the Sanhedrin as a cult leader. They could not find that Jesus had done anything wrong but he was a cult leader and someone that they put a label on and that nailed it on a boad on top of the cross, "King of the Jews." So perhaps a bigger question to debate is: Was Jesus A Member Of A Cult? The answer is - YES! HAVE A GOOD DAY.

[@Bak2Basikz]

NO ONE is going to go to heaven in a sinful state. If that was so, then Satan will be going to heaven as well. Satan believes in Jesus. Satan has faith in Jesus that he is the son of God. That ALONE is not all that is required for entering into the gates of Heaven. Lucifer was kicked out of heaven for sinning...ie....Breaking the Commandments of God

[@chapmaned24]

Read Romans 5:13, and consider that Abraham slept with sister Sarah, but God gave bro/sis an inbred promised Isaac. It's a sin to sleep with your sister. Right?

[@Bak2Basikz]

Guess we’re all inbred since we all came from 1 man and 1 woman

[@NateH1984]

​@@chapmaned24 Abraham asked for forgiveness. Satan never has and Jesus didn't die for angels.

[@jimijames7703]

@@NateH1984why did EGW contradict Gods Word in Genesis 15:12-18 God passed through the midst of the sacrifices..by HIMSELF Hebrews 6:13 Exodus 23:20-22 and EGW said Abram “reverently passed between the parts of the sacrifice” but The Bible says he was in a deep sleep.

[@michaelnewzealand1888]

So in your opinion do non SDA Christians who go to church on Sunday get into the kingdom of heaven or not? Yes or no?

[@beatricepineda5923]

As a whole evangelicals simply don’t want to see the truth. This discussion helps those sincere seekers but for the stubborn ones it just fuels their antagonism against Adventists.

[@jimijames7703]

@beatricepineda5923 1 John 4:1 Mathew 7:15-20 Mathew 24:11&24 Deuteronomy 13 Deuteronomy 18:20 2 Peter 2

[@michaelnewzealand1888]

I have the book "The Great Controversy ". To SDA folk. Questions: Is that book divinely inspired? Are there other books by other authors that you consider to be it's equal? Is the divine inspiration of that book equal to the scripture? or can you please clarify. Because some say that E G White is divinely inspired but not infallible. And likened her to the author of the books of the Bible. Does E White make any mistakes in her writings and any examples? Is it possible God could use me or someone else as an even more inspired prophet than her? Or is she the best since the NT was completed?

[@kermly87]

The Great Controversy: between Christ and Satan.

[@michaelnewzealand1888]

@@kermly87 thanks for the correction.

[@libertecherie6537]

Sounds of cricketts

[@tysonsell2518]

Adventists would consider books written by Ellen White to be divinely inspired in the same way the Bible is inspired. This means she would he infallible in the same way the Bible is infallible. This of course would necessitate a discussion on how inspiration works and what we mean by infallibility but that's another topic. If Ellen White were to contradict the Bible, then that would be a sign she's a false prophet. That's tricky to prove though because one might consider her a false prophet because of her views on the Sabbath while another might say that is evidence of divine inspiration. To your last question: could you be inspired in the same way as the Bible writers and Ellen White? Adventists would say yes, it's called the gift of prophecy. Many non canonical prophets are mentioned in the Bible. That doesn't mean they received some true revelations and some false. Perhaps it simply meant their message wasn't a message to be shared with the world but a message only for a certain time and place.

[@tysonsell2518]

You also asked about mistakes... yes she made mistakes. For example there's one testimony where she mentions a rock face which was a well-known landmark. The common understanding of her day was this landmark was mostly composed of a certain type of rock. She mentions this type of rock. Geologists have now shown this mountain face is composed mostly of a different type of rock. She was wrong. However the type of rock wasn't the point of the testimony. It was a minor detail that had nothing to do with what she was writing about. She just mentions it as a reference for location. I guess you have to decide how inspiration works and if God dictates every word or simply guides the general thought. Ellen White herself said not to take her word on certain historical dates or events as she was only getting these dates from the best historical records she had available to her. According to her, God didn't dictate every single detail. So if she makes minor errors in her biography of one of the protestant reformers in the book, "the great controversy," that would be permissible. The point of the writing was to highlight some spiritual truth and not to be completely accurate in every life detail. There are skeptics who point out mistakes and contradictions in the Bible some of which are legitimate "mistakes" (size of the same army differing in one passage to another, etc.). Some would say this is a scribal error while I personally am comfortable if this was an error by the original author. I don't think God is concerned with errors in some minor details like this as long as the main point is being conveyed.

[@ThisBloke760]

I’m ex sda, I left 22 years ago and only then learnt the gospel. My sibling’s can’t understand when I talk about the gospel. I asked my brother if I needed to keep the Ten Commandments perfectly to get to heaven. He replied ‘You have a better chance .. my opinion’. He’s been an sda for 68 years and still has no idea about saved by grace. Sda church is sending people straight to the hell in which they don’t believe.

[@marygercke6255]

He almost hit it, he just had to flip it round. We dont keep the law to abide in Christ, we abide in Christ and through that relationship we are empowered to keep the law.

[@nonconformist4802]

Do your church obey the 6th commandment?

[@marygercke6255]

@@nonconformist4802 All 10

[@nonconformist4802]

@@marygercke6255 so the abortions in your hospitals is not part of the 10 commandments?

[@rubyduefrene9792]

​@@nonconformist4802do Adventists keep the commandment "thou shalt not kill"? Ummm, could you please help us all understand why you keep asking this question?

[@nonconformist4802]

@@rubyduefrene9792 You dont kept all ten, for you murder the innocents in your hospitals.

[@aceadamz]

Adventist always say they believe we are saved by faith not works and then proceed to argue that faith is proven by works therefore we are save by faith and works. It’s cognitive dissonance. They don’t understand the distinction between law and gospel so they don’t understand that even though true faith produces works true faith is still distinct from works.

[@JesusTheNewCovenant]

A lot of Adventists are "born in the thing", but have no idea what it really is about, except that the Sabbath is essential for salvation and Sunday law is coming.

[@fernandoaguirre2617]

The sabbath is not essential for salvation but those who love God will keep his commandments and the sabbath is one of the commandments.

[@JesusTheNewCovenant]

@@fernandoaguirre2617 SDA doctrine teaches that Sunday worship is the mark of the beast. So one can conclude that you must keep the Sabbath to be saved.

[@JesusTheNewCovenant]

@@fernandoaguirre2617 The Bible teaches that the Mosaic law was to last until the coming of Christ(Galatians 3). I recommend the reading of the entire Book of Galatians.

[@karolmountain8519]

⁠​⁠@@JesusTheNewCovenant I am SDA. Simple Sunday worship is not the mark of the beast. People today worshipping on Sunday do not have the Mark of the beast. Forced Sunday worship at the end of time just before Jesus’ 2nd coming is the Mark of the Beast. It is the act of being forced that makes it the Mark. The Mark of the Beast is a big subject and cannot possibly be understood here in the comments. My advice to anyone curious in what we believe, is to study the Bible for yourself. We are a Bible based church. Those throwing around the term “Cult” either don’t understand what we believe or haven’t looked into it enough. You may not agree with us but we do not deserve the word Cult thrown our way.

[@karolmountain8519]

And keeping the Sabbath is not what saves a person. It is an act of love for God to follow the commandments. SDA believe we are saved through faith alone in Jesus Christ. Not by works at all “lest any man should boast.” The Host and Fritz both believe the same basic thing. That we are saved by the blood of Christ alone through faith. Ellen White believed that too. The host misunderstood her writings and got hung up on a few words she used. Easy to do when you pick and choose isolated statements.

[@berylcunningham1328]

Salvation is a free gift from God which we receive by FAITH. However, God said that we must work out our own salvation, How do we WORK our our own salvation when we are saved by GRACE ALONE? Can someone give me an answer to that question? God bless.

[@FishermensCorner]

Grace alone through faith... if we have faith we act on it... like... complete the thought. If you resist the Holy Spirit working through you then that's blasphemy of the Spirit

[@jesusislord77712]

Phil 2:13 answers your question

[@livingwaterbiblestudy8021]

The Bible does not teach that sanctification is a process, but that it is an act of God's grace that sets us apart as holy.

[@berylcunningham1328]

JAMES 2: 14 -26 MADE IT CLEAR THAT FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD. HERE JAMES IS SAYING THAT FAITH IS MADE EVIDENT BY WORKS.. JAMES 2: 18

[@chapmaned24]

Define works, as it pertains to James. Then define works as it pertains to Romans 4. Not the same definition in context. Each had a completely different contextual meaning. James, in essence is saying to LIVE WHAT YOU BELIEVE, whereas Romans 4 is indicating EARNING RIGHTEOUSNESS by working for it, and you then get a wage! But in James, if you believe that a chair can hold you, the works is sitting in the chair. Abraham was given a promise about Isaac, that abraham's seed would continue thru Issac. But God tests abraham's faith by telling Abraham to sacrifice that promised seed. But Abraham had faith in the promise, that God would have no choice but to resurrect Isaac from the dead, in order to fulfill that promise. So Abraham complied with the order. He lived what he believed. Nothing about the ten commandments here. The other example was Rahab, who also was never subjected to the ten commandments, either.

[@FishermensCorner]

​@@chapmaned24 the Sabbath is quite literally not a work. It was created before there was sin, so has nothing to do with salvational work.

[@charnelallan7159]

​@@FishermensCornerAre u sure ? Do u pastors get paid to preach on Saturday?

[@FishermensCorner]

@charnelallan7159 the priests worked every day as well, God worked everyday even on the 7th day; it is the type of work you do, not work itself.

[@chapmaned24]

@@FishermensCorner You are the EXPERT, and you have no clue about Hebrews Chapter 4? The REST that I'm discussing has nothing to do with the REST that you are discussing! And that's my whole point! My WHOLE point. God is STILL resting from his WORKS (creation). And we know that the LAW OF MOSES is WORKS. So, in a nutshell, STOP WORKING! Abraham didn't work. Romans 4 tells ya that! WORKS OF THE LAW! STOP WORKING! And take a PERPETUAL rest from the law! It's either grace, or works, NOT BOTH! If you are working, you are wasting your time, because your wage is DEATH!

[@ther3mnant]

Great scripture explaining the power that God will give us to keep His statues! Ezekiel 36:26-27 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

[@thenowchurch6419]

Ellen White makes clear in her magnum opus The Great Controversy that those who will be saved, that is pass the Investigative Judgement ,must have repented of every single sin from their past and be in a state of sinless perfection. That is not what true Christian doctrine says. In true Christianity the believer by continually repenting when they are aware they have sinned and by willingly continuing to abide in Christ, they are saved. They do not have to have reached a state of sinless perfection as their sanctification process may not have reached that level before they died or "came up in the Judgement".

[@PrairieChristianOutreach]

Can you be in a state of rebellion against God and be a part of His kingdom? Lev. 23:29. It is really that simple. I recommend you read through Paul’s epistles again, and see what being in the New Covenant results in regarding a relationship with Christ. PS. I’m an Adventist, but I’m a little unique in that my soteriology is Reformed Arminian. Meaning I believe that one cannot be saved by works and one cannot be lost by sins. Eph. 2:8. I affirm this theology and I still agree with EGW’s statements in the great controversy, because I understand where she is coming from. For further reference please read John Wesley’s book “A Plain Account of Christian Perfection”. Blessings.

[@PrairieChristianOutreach]

@@smangelenondonga1241 You are correct. Modern Christians don’t speak the same language as the Adventist founders, in particular EGW. I encourage people to read one of the fathers of Arminianism, John Wesley. His book on Christian perfection is enlightening.

[@thenowchurch6419]

@@smangelenondonga1241 All those who accept Ellen G. White as a divinely appointed messenger do believe in sinless perfection. Her description of what is necessary to pass the Investigative Judgement, makes it clear that one must be totally sinless. She wrote that to be redeemed is to cease from sin. She also said that to stand in the time of trouble we must be as sinless as Jesus, since we will stand before a Holy God without a mediator. No matter how you twist it that means sinless perfection.

[@PrairieChristianOutreach]

@@thenowchurch6419 Please provide the quotes and context.

[@PrairieChristianOutreach]

@@thenowchurch6419 Here is an AI response. “Ellen G. White, a key figure in the Seventh-day Adventist movement, frequently spoke about the concept of Christian perfection. Her writings emphasized the process of growing in Christlikeness, with a focus on striving for spiritual maturity rather than an absolute or sinless state in this life.” You can call it twisting, those familiar with literary analysis call it properly contextualizing the writings. Evangelicals need to face the fact that one in rebellion to Christ will not enter the kingdom. Unconfessed sin is active rebellion. 1 John 2:6, 1 John 1:9, Ps. 66:18, Is. 59:2 Ellen White’s theology was much closer to Biblical soteriology than many evangelicals and their OSAS. The OSAS that exists in today’s churches would probably be considered a false gospel by Paul.

[@AverLife]

Establish "works" (Yours, Christs, or Moses) Establish "Grace" (His power and strength working through you, to do what you cannot by yourself(flesh)) Establish "Faith" (Faith without works is dead. Be ye doer's of the word not hearers only, deceiving your own selves) Question, The unprofitable servant, had no works, "Is he saved?" Answer, he believed and did nothing, so he was cast into outer darkness - not saved.

[@JaneNtene]

To understand the Adventist view of salvation please read Fundamental belief 10 in full.

[@nonconformist4802]

Why not read the Bible? Oh, now I remember, they are not Christian but Adventists, therefore their gospel is not in the Bible and cursed as the Bible have said

[@Colin-to1nv]

@@nonconformist4802 "Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, 4 who gave himself for our sins to rescue us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, 5 to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen." (Gal 1:2,3) Is that clear enough for you, then? That is the limitless call to holiness for us of Jesus our Saviour, is it not?

[@nonconformist4802]

@@Colin-to1nv Still don't answer why I must read books instead of the Bible

[@neiljoseph2330]

You're view of salvation should come from the Bible ALONE. There isn't an Adventist view. There is the Apostles foundation that we should build on. Paul taught in Galatians that those who preach a false gospel is cursed forever so this is not a light matter. It is CRITICAL to know the Apostles writtings of salvation in the Bible.

[@Colin-to1nv]

@@neiljoseph2330 Indeed: that living faith which shows the works of Christ in the life. Is this a cute idea that we have a go at or is this the high calling of the Gospel of Christ? Are we to show our gratitude to Jesus as we follow him by his Gospel, or is salvation just that we trust him? Equally, do books about beliefs speak of these things correctly: these truths can be expressed so well in books which teach powerful truths, just like hearing it in a sermon.

[@frenzyvault4487]

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. Ecclesiastes 12:13

[@jamauretrichardt6789]

I have yet to see a SDA pastor in my local church or even online teach that salvation comes through faith and works. Works are a by-product of saving faith. No matter what EGW quote is brought up in isolation, even she believed that salvation is by faith alone. AND EVEN IF SHE DID NOT BELIEVE THAT, our church teaches that based on our fundamental beliefs. Each time the guest would refute the claim that we teach salvation is by faith and works the host would brimg it back to an EGW quote which is not even the actual fundamental belief

[@mikhailhunter5277]

Caleb misunderstood the quote @ 18:28, he took the word "reconcile" to mean "justification" Reconcile means: restore friendly relations between; cause to coexist in HARMONY; make or show to be COMPATIBLE EGW statement @ 18:28 is not contradicting scripture, it's in harmony with Romans 8:7 Romans 8:7 "Because the carnal mind is ENMITY against God; for it is not SUBJECT TO THE LAW of God, nor indeed can be" Enmity means: Hostile, opposed, incompatible and those who are "Enmity against God" are those who are not subject to the law of God. Meaning they WILL to not keep the Law of God. Therefore those who are subject to the law, i.e those who are willing to obey the law of God would be the opposite of Enmity against God. They would be compatible with God, or able to exist in harmony with God. Therefore reconciled to God through obedience to his Law. It wasn't what EGW said that was wrong or even how her statement was isolated. Caleb in error re-defined "reconciled" to mean justification.

[@JonathanGardnerPotsMinistries]

@@mikhailhunter5277 exactly

[@wellnessprovherbs6254]

The fundamental beliefs uphold Ellen White the person through whom the gift of prophecy was manifested in the last days. Therefore quoting ellen white is in line with the fundamental beliefs of SDA. The problem is that ellen white and the fundamental beliefs are often teaching opposing things. Even ellen white contradicts ellen white.

[@JonathanGardnerPotsMinistries]

@@wellnessprovherbs6254 example

[@villain2374]

There is NO SDA church without Ellen White, you cannot be the remnant without Ellen white, Ellen white is the basis for the SDA church being the remnant.

[@robross180]

Romans 14:5-6 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. [6] He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God.

[@mrfelix2510]

It is nice to see such a friendly discussion.... "but" 😊..... I think that most would agree, if you are on the opinion of one side you will always favor and agree with their views and their arguments over the other. When a comment is read from the Bible or Ellen White or maybe some other source, like maybe Joseph Smith, we tend to hear only what we believe or want to hear. Pride often times, clogges our ears.

[@Marco-fn6zq]

I think also regarding that first quotation from Ellen White I’m at the 47:00 mark now you guys are missing where she says “He must accept the provisions of the gospel” meaning that through the gospel God has provided the way for us to keep the law, to me she makes it clear we can’t be saved by the law apart from the gospel otherwise she would just say through good works man may attain a righteous character. Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus

[@sweet1mcs]

@@Marco-fn6zq What are "the provisions of the gospel"? You believe the law + gospel = salvation?

[@Marco-fn6zq]

@@sweet1mcs The provisions of the gospel would be Gods righteousness, forgiveness, Grace, love, all the gifts of the Holy Spirit. That’s why she says “He must accept the provisions of the gospel” before saying “he must be reconciled to God through obedience to His law and faith in Jesus Christ”. It’s the Holy Spirit writing Gods law in our hearts that’s why I believe she worded it that way. I like the quotation that Fitz brought up from steps to Christ that we are saved by grace alone apart from works. So even though genuine Faith produces good works and obedience to Gods law it’s the Holy Spirit that is doing the work and not us. And to me Ellen white is in harmony with the Bible teaching on this.

[@sweet1mcs]

@@Marco-fn6zq What is the Gospel? Are you an Adventist? Do you remember the baptismal vows to become an SDA? I have to disagree with you. Ellen's writings teach a person how to be an Adventist, and that's not the same as being a Christian.

[@Marco-fn6zq]

@@sweet1mcs I am seventh day Adventist. From what I see in the Bible the gospel is the good news of God saving us from our sins by the blood of Christ and by faith in Jesus Christ He is formed in us the hope of glory. I believe Ellen white understood the gospel and preached it. I just thought I comment to clear up some misunderstandings. The book that Fitz was quoting from Steps to Christ is an excellent book if you’d like to understand Ellen whites view of the gospel.

[@sweet1mcs]

@@Marco-fn6zq It's good to hear you say this, however, this does not line up with Ellen and the Great Controversy. I was taught about the 3 angels message, which is the everlasting gospel that should be preached to all the world. Are you familiar with this?

[@100superaguila1]

Faith without works is dead. This is made clear in james 2:14, 2:20, and 2:26. And ephesians 2:8-10 makes it clear it is not our own works that saves one, it is the works Christ does through us that save us once we put our faith in him as said in ephesians 2:10. Matthew 7:21-23 “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”

[@MountainMan.]

The will of the Father is to believe in the Son. Nothing else. See John 6:40 "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

[@FishermensCorner]

​@@MountainMan. Yeah believe is an active word, it's not a past tense, like a magic wand

[@paulryan5984]

@@MountainMan. "My sheep hear My voice and follow ME. " This is actually what" believing" means. So what have you heard from God?

[@100superaguila1]

@@paulryan5984 What does the voice of Jesus tell us? John 14:15 “ if you love me, keep my commandments”

[@paulryan5984]

@@100superaguila1 Galatians 2;20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness COME BY THE LAW, then Christ is dead in vain. Revelation chapters 2-3 also says." HEAR what the Spirit says to the churches". What do you think that really means?

[@HealingWord_Psalm107-20]

Brother Fitzroy! I love your channel. I know it's tough when you're put on the hotseat to be an EGW apologist. Other Christians expect us to immediately be able to respond to any and every word she may have ever wrote. The truth is, our faith is built on Scripture, not her writings. We may have appreciated and benefited from several of her counsels, but that doesn't mean we've had the opportunity to read everything she may have said on a subject. So I can't always explain to someone the exact meaning of every word that EGW wrote, but I can show you my faith out of the Bible.

[@rubyduefrene9792]

Amen

[@charnelallan7159]

ITS NOT EVERY WORD SHE HAS WRITTEN ITS THE FUNDAMENTALS OF THE GOSPEL THAT SHE BLATANTLY CONTRADICTS SCRIPTURES. U NEED TO WAKE UP. ANY DÉNOMINATION WHICH HAS 1. ITS OWN PROPHET 2. A SPECIAL MESSAGE TO THE WORLD 3 IT BEING THE REMNANT 4. CALLING OTHER DÉNOMINATIONS DAUGHTERS OF BABYLON, APOSTATE EXALTING A DAY AS THE SEAL OF GOD ABOVE THE HOLY SPIRIT. 5. TEACHING THAT THEY WILL BE PERSECUTED IN THE END FOR THEIR BELIEFS. IS A PSUEDO CHRISTIAN CULT. ❤

[@alickmudenda2996]

Exactly

[@libertecherie6537]

No ellen white = no sda. Show me i am wrong.

[@HealingWord_Psalm107-20]

@@libertecherie6537 This is a common misconception. Acceptance of EGW is not a test of fellowship in the SDA church.

[@TheCruxxofIT]

He's missed the main point of the quote from Testimonies by highlighting in red the points that aren't rightly understood if you miss or are blind to this part of the statement "..cannot by human effort, effect a radical change in himself..." This is key to understanding the whole statement and keeping the Gospel intact.

[@keithreid6710]

Mrs White says clearly in her writings that she is not a prophet but a messenger . She was a human being and not therefore infallible . Just like any truthful minister of God’s word she tried doing God’s will and she did not seek to replace God ‘s word with any false belief . I believe the devil has created a trap for those who he wants to deceive . He will deceive the very elect. Pray earnestly that the Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth.

[@davidbermudez7704]

Her writings contradict the Scriptures

[@iamnickpommells]

@@davidbermudez7704how

[@fernandoaguirre2617]

​@davidbermudez7704 how?

[@jeffsimpson-h4g]

@@davidbermudez7704 how so? proof? where is it? not trying to be argumentative here, just you make the claim. have you read any of her writings and noticed how many times the bible is referenced? in just one book of around 900 pages, both on the pages are references to scripture and in the back, where there's a list of all scripture references and page #'s there are over 1100 scripture references.

[@mikhailhunter5277]

@@davidbermudez7704 can you give an example? Perhaps just 1?

[@biblicalendoftimes9677]

The problem here is almost all evangelicals believe that they are "Once saved, always saved", which is not Biblical. So many want to live in their sin and still claim they are saved because Christ did it all for them. Study the Bible through exegesis not eisegesis.

[@TheRealRenn]

(1) Fitzroy was born into Adventistm (2) Fitzroy asked if Adventistm is true and used his own basic questions to confirm what he already believed (3) Fitzroy is "completely convinced that if you follow logic and reason that you will end up at the SDA 'church' Pause: Item (3) above....my Mormon co-worker says EXACTLY THE SAME THING and even said no one will ever convince him otherwise....he literally said the same thing as Fitzroy. (4) Fitzroy did not mention SDA are an offshoot from the JWs (5) Fitzroy did not address the fact that Miller was a 100% false prophet (6) Fitzroy did not address the fact that Ellen White was a prolific plagiarist, and even so, the SDA cling to her writings much like the LDS hang on the writings of their false prophet, Joseph Smith (7) Fitzroy attempts to shift the meaning of "cult"...he wants to use his own meaning when in fact a cult is a belief system that follows one person and hangs on their words as the only true words. He tries to distance himself and his 'church' from the definition and even makes the claim that LDS are not really a cult. Fitzroy unknowingly is slipping in the last of the last days concept of unity between all faiths by shifting the definition of a cult Now anyone who listens to the teachings of the corporate leadership of the SDA church will find them well read and eloquent in speech, but you will never hear them bore down to the real teachings of their 'church'. If one head over to their local small SDA church and you are likely to find uneducated lunatics preaching things not found in God's Word, but rather things which are mantras from whatever SDA teachings their uneducated minds could absorb....like "if you don't dress up for church, you sin"....if you wear tennis shoes to church, you sin"...."Angels are given gold cards that allow them access through the pearly gates" None of them have listened to Walter Martins debates with Adventist leadership where the SDA are exposed to the light of public scrutiny. I do not expect anyone to read this....

[@NickyleWilson-i3p]

I read it and what I’m getting from it is what you want to believe not saying the members are perfect but test the 28 fundamental beliefs and see it’s sound doctrine or not

[@intheinterestofthings2848]

Hey just to let you know your expectations have been wrong in this matter as I am an SDA and have read it. Please consider my questions below Do you think in two hours, with the host interjecting questions for clarity all the subjects can be addressed? Was Fitz asked to address those things ? I’ve watched that Walter Martin debate twice, didn’t seem to bother me, but then again it’s not easy to actually understand a person you disagree with, so maybe I may have to watch it one more time. Are you talking about the one on the John Ankerberg show (forgive the spelling)? Jude v 2 2 Thessalonians 3 v 5

[@NateH1984]

"Fitzroy did not mention SDA are an offshoot from the JWs" That statement alone is patently and absurdly false, so of course Fitzroy wouldn't mention it...

[@intheinterestofthings2848]

@@NateH1984 but the person meant we are related, they just got that bit mixed up. JWs got some of their doctrines from adventists. I think that's what the guy meant, but I could be wrong, they just made a mistake and wrote the opposite but we have to look at their statement from a good faith perspective, I am sure they were not trying to lie. But you are right that the stamens is false. Would to God that we didn't make mistakes. I am glad you pointed it out, I am just making sure your reply doesn't stand on its on, I wanted to add a bit more to it.

[@Bunfire123]

The irony. SDAs are NOT an offshoot of JW.

[@tyler2mor]

56:35 Does anyone want to tell Fitz that this Steps to Christ quote is about Sanctification (“can make us holy”) and not about Salvation. This doesn’t vindicate her T4 quote at all.

[@Romans1v20]

@iThink Biblically: Thank you for the open-mindedness and courtesy to host this conversation! One cannot be fully submitted to GOD and not be fully submitted to doing what He says. That is the point that EGW is making in that quote. If I wanted to reconcile with my wife after cheating one her (I haven't done that, just providing this for illustrative purposes), she might be WILLING and even decisive on forgiving me and reconciling, BUT unless I make the decision to accept her AND terminate the affair, we ARE NOT reconciled. This isn't hard math. The major difference between Adventism and other Evangelicals church's on this point is Adventist (and Paul based on 2 Cor 5:18-20) believe that reconciliation is a TWO-WAY street (GOD does and we do), but for Evangelicals, ONLY GOD is obliged to reconcile for us to have salvation--or to use my illustration, if my wife has forgiven me, and I have accepted her forgiveness, we're good whether I end the affair or not.

[@rubyduefrene9792]

That's a good explanation/example

[@beatricepineda5923]

Well said. Evangelical Christianity wants the benefits of the Kingdom but not its heavenly rule and governance.

[@kirky3051]

@Romans1v20 You cannot compare the reconciliation between mortals with Christ’s perfect work of reconciling us to the Father. By your reasoning you are not reconciled to God yet because you have not stopped sinning completely.

[@Romans1v20]

@kirky3051 idon't think either the text or my illustration indicate sinless perfection as an equivalence to breaking of the affair. I can end an afair and still not be a perfect husband. Likewise, we can repent of our sins and still not be perfect, but we still need to repent. Human illustrations are imperfect, but they are also biblical (e.g., Christ is Husband to the Church). In fact, Paul uses the exact same illustration in Romans 7, stating that through Christ we are dead to the old covenant. Otherwise, we would be considered adultresses. Breaking off an affair is not equated to perfection. Hope that makes sense.

[@lubindanamukolo4265]

The statement reads He must be reconciled to God through obedience to His law and faith in Jesus Christ. Now the question comes cherry picked! and he makes a case. He asks about the law and not the faith in Jesus. The question is therefore wrong! You cannot separate the two..Read what the characteristics of the last day saints in Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

[@beatricepineda5923]

The Evangelical will continue to misrepresent EGW no matter how clear the Biblical evidence is. We must realize that he is no longer ignorant of the truth but a rejecter of the truth. May God have mercy on him while there is still time.

[@Swimdaddycycle]

Investigative judgement is completely based on EGW visions. Any honest 7 will claim this. Thank God for His Word, Jesus Christ, for defeating her false teaching. The complete and finished Atonement is Penal Gal. 3:13 ; 2 Cor. 5:21 Substitutionary Lev. 1:4 ; Isa. 53:5-6 ; 2 Cor. 5:21 ; 1 Pet. 2:24 Voluntary Jn. 10:18 Redemptive Gal. 3:13 ; Eph. 1:7 ; 1 Cor. 6:20 Propitiatory Romans 3:25 Reconciling 2 Cor. 5:18-19 ; Col. 1:21-22 Efficacious Jn. 12:32-33 ; Rom. 5:9-10 ; 2 Cor. 5:21 ; Eph.2:13 ; Heb. 9:11-12,26 ; Heb. 10:10-17 ; 1 Jn. 1:7 ; Rev. 1:5 Revelatory Jn. 3:16 ; Rom. 3:25-26 ; 1 Jn. 4:9-10 Praise God the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ whom I believe in! John 3:16-18

[@sealedsoon]

Kudos to Fitz for presenting the Bible texts so clearly that explain justification and sanctification and reconciliation. Would have been great if both defined biblically the work of the Holy Spirit then much of the discussion would have been clearer.

[@Pahyto1]

Revelation says it all we don't even need to debate or accept any other opinion on matter here it is : Revelation 14:12 KJV Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

[@neiljoseph2330]

The issue with Adventists too is that they use one version of the Bible and don't look into the ORIGINAL meaning of the text. The KJV is not the most accurate version of the Bible. It is best to lookup this fact and listen to Bible scholars who look at the original text where we get English translations from. The commandments mentioned here is not th 10 commandments. It is speaking about those who obey God......the moral law of God and obey what they know pleases Him.

[@Pahyto1]

@@neiljoseph2330 the issue with people like you is you have 0 proof and 0 evidence i only posted a verse and you started talking about how people perceive it without giving evidence. The sky is purple around my house you gotta believe me thats how people see it.

[@beatricepineda5923]

@@neiljoseph2330. Well how arrogant to think that you know better than God and know what is the moral law. God Himself gave the 10 as a set and inscribed it with His own finger!! Is it not a moral issue to steal? Murder? Commit adultery? What about idolatry? Be more honest and just say that according to your own finite opinion, there are 9 moral Commandments and one ceremonial Commandment. That is what this is all about. I evangelicals don’t have problem with 9 out of the 10. How convenient!

[@vegacool1]

One characteristic of a cult is abusive behavior. The investigative judgment leaves a believer in salvation limbo, never knowing whether or not he has been judged. There is no rest.

[@iamnickpommells]

Labeling Seventh-day Adventism as a cult and asserting that Ellen White contradicted Scripture are misconceptions based on misunderstandings of Adventist doctrine and Ellen White’s role. The church’s commitment to the Bible as the final authority and its alignment with core Christian beliefs confirm its place within the broader Christian tradition. Ellen White’s writings, far from contradicting Scripture, are seen as a gift that amplifies and supports biblical truth, always pointing believers back to God’s Word.

[@alexmorgan780]

Regarding EG not contracting scripture, what does Ellen say is the seal of God? What does scripture say is the seal of God? Where does Ellen say Jesus went when he ascended to heaven? Where do the apostles and Paul say Jesus was in heaven? Where is the right hand of the throne of God, holy place or most holy place?

[@iamnickpommells]

@@alexmorgan780 study the scriptures for yourself for in them you will find eternal life . The Holy Spirit is the one who seals believers, not the seal itself. In **Ephesians 1:13** (KJV), it says, “...ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,” showing that the Holy Spirit performs the sealing. Similarly, **Ephesians 4:30** (KJV) states, “...the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption,” again emphasizing the Holy Spirit as the agent of sealing, not the seal itself. The seal represents God's ownership and authority, but the Spirit is the one who applies it.

[@iamnickpommells]

@@alexmorgan780 Paul affirms that Jesus is at the right hand of God (Romans 8:34, KJV), but this does not contradict His work of atonement in the Most Holy Place. Hebrews 8:1-2 (KJV) explains that Jesus is a “minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle,” showing that He serves as our High Priest in heaven. In **Hebrews 9:24** (KJV), it says, “For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands…but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us.” Therefore, while Jesus is at the right hand of God, He is also performing His intercessory and atoning work in the heavenly sanctuary on our behalf.

[@stephen6578]

Yhh wrong. As u continue reading there are clearly contrasts. The Priests here on Earth continued daily never finishing and they continued every day and every year which they stand. He Jesus on the other hand "once for all" did it and sat down until His enemies are under His footstool. He didn't observe the old testament pattern of the priests. Read from chapter 8 to 10 and exegete them properly.

[@stephen6578]

​@@iamnickpommellsconclusion is, intercessory yes, atonement no. It was once for all time

[@keepgodfirstministry2527]

The justification process takes place first but it does not mean immediate reconciliation. If you wrong somebody. The person forgives you yes but are you reconciled no. It is only the initiating or invitation toward reconciliation. True reconciliation can only happened through total surrender. We are not fully surrendered when we accept Christ, because we only begin the process at this stage. Salvation or reconciliation is generally a process. There are exceptions based on circumstance, like the thief on the Cross. This is why once saved cannot be always saved. if we are fully reconciled how then can we be lost. It is because reconciliation is a process. It is about a real broken relationship. it takes time (process) to reconcile

[@JesusTheNewCovenant]

To be an SDA, you would have had to have a huge serving of the coolaid made by EGW.

[@fernandoaguirre2617]

I was a catholic as a child but then became a seventh day adventist. I would hear them mention ellen white in some of sermons I used to get mad. I only wanted the bible. Then holy spirit impressed my heart. Started reading some of her writings and they don't take away from word of God but help reader have a deeper understanding of scripture and focal point is always chist and rebuking sin

[@JesusTheNewCovenant]

@@fernandoaguirre2617She adds and takes away from the Word of God, and that's a sin. The Bible along with the help of the Holy Spirit is all you need.

[@fernandoaguirre2617]

@itruth983 you don't have to believe her writings were inspired. Remember to the law and to the testimony if they speak not according to this word there is no light in them isiah 8 20.

[@beatricepineda5923]

@@JesusTheNewCovenant If you studied the Bible more closely you would have known that Christ Himself would give the gift of prophecy to His end time people. You rely on self sufficiency and that is not safe. Adding to Biblical understanding is not sin. That’s what ALL true prophets did. Adding new teachings and man made ideas to Scripture would be a sin but she didn’t do that.

[@JesusTheNewCovenant]

@@beatricepineda5923 Ok, Is that so? Have you read Hebrews 1: 1-2? 1 Long ago God spoke many times and in many ways to our ancestors through the prophets. 2 And now in these final days, he has spoken to us through his SON.

[@ndekezipatrick]

"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law".(Roman 3:28); "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law."(Roman 3:31). It means that we are justified by grace through faith but also as in James 2:26 says "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." For clear understanding just read both chapters Roman 3 and James 2, God be with us. (KJV)

[@WiltonSpringer]

People who says that SDA are cult must be asked ...what do they understand define who a cult?

[@MrWaves-oj9ge]

A christian cult is those that are outside of orthodox teaching, especially restoration movements that believe in additional prophets, that negates previous stricture, contradicts previous scripture or claims to be the one true church (damning everyone else because of some new belief).

[@francoisduminy1863]

This is getting veru boring with all the videos out and nobody can prove a point. Why not just go by the bible ???

[@williyr122]

I dislike so-called "debates" or "discussions" like this when it involves SDA's. The person hosting this discussion is only trying to prove his point. He is unwilling to learn the truths taught in the SDA faith. His only goal is to prove that he is right and that we are a cult, which we are not. I say everyone pray and seek the Lord for the truth. The bible says seek and ye shall find.

[@cactusblob1688]

SDA HAS NO TRUTH. IT'S DEMONIC..

[@biblicalendoftimes9677]

So from the beginning I see that keeping the law of God is being linked to justification and that EGW is promoting that. However that is not what she is saying. No where in that quote did she speak of justification. Why are so many people adding words to what is being said, especially in the Bible itself. SDA's belief that we are only justified through the blood of Christ. However we are sanctified through the keeping of His Law. Read the rest of what Paul says about works. Paul teaches that yes we are justified by faith in Jesus only, but that doesn't do away with works. Paul exclaims, " God forbid". We show our works because we are saved.

[@Godisgood-v9g]

This discussion reinforces my decision after six decades to leave the SDA church. I find it impossible to read EG White’s writings, especially her early writings and not clearly see that she was not only a false prophet but not inspired by God but another spirit. Jesus Christ, our Savior did not come to be an example of perfect law keeping. He came to redeem us. The Spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus. That testimony is the essence or source of true prophecy. The angel’s response to John was to tell him that God is the one to worship. When God gave a message to His prophets, it was Jesus that they were speaking about. It has nothing to do with EG White. Her testimonies have replaced Jesus’ testimonies. Every time someone says, “ let’s go to the spirit of prophesy and her writings are read, it is blasphemy. Every time the association is made, it takes away from Jesus.

[@JesusTheNewCovenant]

"He came to redeem us". Praise God for His saving Grace. May His love and grace be with you as you journey out of this darkness into His marvelous light.

[@charnelallan7159]

AMEN❤❤❤❤ GOID FOR U MAY GOD GUIDE U ON UR JOURNEY OUT OF ADVENTISM

[@beatricepineda5923]

Your discernment is so clouded that you have decided to lean on your own understanding.

[@Godisgood-v9g]

@@beatricepineda5923 what an interesting reply without substance. It is a throw away statement without support. I read the Bible and only the Bible for myself without a lens. I realized that half of what I thought was in it turned out to be a work of both realistic and unrealistic fiction, by an author that by Bible standards, was unqualified. If I had continued to “lean on my own understanding”, I would continue to hold Sabbath as an idol, believe that worshipping Almighty God on Sunday condemns and is the mark of the beast, that Sabbath is the seal of God, etc. There are too many to keep going. “The theme of the Bible is Jesus and how He died to save men…” Love that song! “And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, in whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.” ‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4‬:‭30‬ ‭ The freedom to trust and believe in Jesus Christ only for my salvation is unmatched. And no, it is not a license to sin. “Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away. Behold, the new has come!” ‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5‬:‭17‬ ‭ If you believe that EG White is synonymous with “The Spirit of Prophesy”, it is indeed you that is leaning on your own understanding, as there is absolutely no scripture that states or implies it. Blessings to you as we study God’s word.

[@TheCruxxofIT]

The struggle here is that they both believe that salvation is "getting to heaven". Salvation is to be saved (healed) from sin. John 17:3, "This is eternal life, that they know the one and only true God and Jesus Christ..." That's not a "getting to heaven" statement.

[@jonathanbaby90]

He has reconciled but asked us to be reconciled. God is love, not force.. although He has done all for us.. our response to Him is the fruit of obedience. We are not robots.

[@charnelallan7159]

THE BIBLE MAKES NO MENTION OF FRUITS OF OBÉDIENCE, IT CLEARLY SAYS FRUITS OF THE SPIRIT ABOVE SUCH THERE IS NO LAW

[@jonathanbaby90]

@@charnelallan7159 So no obedience? Even if it shows in the fruit? Love, joy, peace, long suffering, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance, against such there is no law. Galatians 5:22-23. You are fulfilling the law when you are keeping it by faith. A apple tree will grow apples. A Christian will have the fruit of the Spirit.. one of the fruit being love. God’s law is a law of love. Love to God and love to our fellowman. “Owe no one anything, except to love one another, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.” Romans 13:8-10

[@vanessahack452]

I think each person should be given the chance to fully explain their point without being interrupted. The context needs time to be presented. If not one can be paused at the same principle being questioned without advancing to the full picture being presented. Just be patient.

[@bellaroccisano4156]

When Jesus reconciled us to the Father at the Cross, it was for all time. That means if I sin, I don’t have to be reconciled to God all over again; I’m not cut off from the Lord, suddenly unreconciled. No, the veil of separation was rent permanently at the Cross, and I forever have access to God’s throne, through Christ’s blood. The door is never closed to me: “In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him” (Ephesians 3:12).

[@ambiguity4198]

So are saying once saved always saved

[@charnelallan7159]

​@ambiguity4198 really?

[@ambiguity4198]

@@charnelallan7159 You scared of answering the question? Is once saved always saved biblical? You're a Calvinist answer the question?

[@charnelallan7159]

😮​@@ambiguity4198

[@ambiguity4198]

@@charnelallan7159really isn't a response. I asked you to be man enough and support your claims with scripture evidence that Paul taught the law is no longer binding. Give an example of where the Jews accused Paul of teaching against the observance of the Sabbath pls or accept that you're a phoney heretic and deceiver

[@Colin-to1nv]

So, reconciliation with God for us is justification by faith alone? Do we have a choice, is it only for the elect? Might we even stop it? This itself seems a critical point; your main challenge may be based on this premise, since you said justification by faith cannot be lost after you 'find it': the perseverance of the saints?

[@WatcherNine]

Well.....I'm not running to the SDA to become a member of their congregation. This changed nothing for me. I will continue to maintain my self description as a "Biblical Christian" without a denomination, because biblical Christianity is a faith, not a denomination. Every 'denomination' has their quirks and side-tracks, so I'll just stick with what the bible says and what the Holy Spirit shows me.

[@ericmakau7519]

Let this be clear to everyone, we are not justified by a process of obedience,but we are justified by one act of obedience of another, the act of death of Christ,works does not appear in our justification,but faith in the finished work of Christ

[@divergentone777]

22. But now you are free from the power of sin and have become slaves of God. Now you do those things that lead to holiness and result in eternal life. Rom 6 27. Christ in you, the hope of Glory Col 1 We are prone to fall when we take our eyes off of Christ, but the Holy Spirit will convict us and lead us to repentance, just like Peter was convicted when he heard the rooster crow, he repented. We grow up in Christ Col 2:7-9. If this is not happening then our faith is dead

[@JustinMcCormick-ATST]

Psalms 111:7-10 7 The works of his hands are verity and judgment; all his COMMANDMENTS are sure. 8 They stand fast FOR EVER AND EVER, and are done in truth and uprightness. 9 He sent redemption unto his people: he hath commanded his covenant for ever: holy and reverend is his name. 10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

[@truthbebold4009]

I didn't listen until the second half so i missed a good portion but it was frustrating that your guest wasn't permitted to develop any of his beliefs from Scripture or otherwise because you were interrupting and interjecting your own views. You weren't mean spirited but it was difficult to watch. Peace 🕊️

[@michaelnewzealand1888]

I agree he was interrupting but also the other guy wasn't getting to his Point very quickly. It's very easy to say we're Saved By Grace alone through faith or not. It's very easy to say we believe Ellen White's writings are equivalent to scripture and infallible or they are not. No need to beat around the bush because that allows for people to then jump in and interrupt you.

[@charnelallan7159]

SIR THE SDA PASTOR WHEN CONFRONTED WITH ELLEN G WHITE QUOTE WHERE SHE CLEARLY SAYS RÉCONCILIATION IS BY FAITH AND LAW KEEPING . TYPICAL ADVENTISM WHEN BACKED IN A CORNER UR PASTOR JUMS TO ANOTHER OF HER WRITINGS BUT IGNORES HER PREVIOUS TEXT WHERE SHE CONTRADICTS SCRIPTURES. AMAZING😮

[@truthbebold4009]

@@charnelallan7159 can you give me a time stamp or an approximate time where you're referring to? It's important to recognize that the Bible itself SEEMS to contradict itself. One particular scholar claims that the Bible is anything but univocal. I disagree wholeheartedly with that claim but I understand why he claims such. What I often see is Christians who call out egw writings as contradicting Scripture would reject the Bible (or parts of) if they applied the same criteria. That's where we get whole groups of professed believers rejecting any and all writings from Paul. More and more LDS are rejecting Deuteronomy and other OT books for being supposed forgeries which were inserted by the "deuteronomists". I'm a non-lds Protestant Christian so my only Scripture is the Bible. I do love me some Ellen White books and I do consider her an inspired author, but Scripture (i.e. the Holy Bible) is structured like no other book. Compared with the Bible, man has not done anything even remotely impressive. None other than an infinite mind could have produced the Bible.

[@jeffsimpson-h4g]

@@charnelallan7159 do you base your understanding of a teaching based on one scripture of one section that deals with a topic? i'd hate to think that for scripture doesn't do that, give us everything in one place, even in prophecy. some is laid out here and then more explained in another. even with the ten commandments in other scriptures we find more information on how they are applied.

[@charnelallan7159]

BECAUSE PASTOR FITZ IS QUOTING SCRIPTURES LEFT RIGHT AND CENTER TO JUSTIFY ELLEN ERRONEOUS STATEMENT. BUT HE IS PROVING THAT ELLEN IS INFAILLIBLE TO ADVENTISM AND THEIR AUTHORITY IN INTERPRÉTATION OF SCRIPTURES

[@eatthebook144]

The first point was explained perfectly especially at the end.

[@cindiloowhoo1166]

So, you are saying that "laypersons" are too addlepated, ignorant, and incapable of discernment in defining a term, "Cult," about which you are obviously uncomfortable? The definition was spot on, to me.

[@FlyingGentile]

Hopefully, we see a video with you and Myles from @AnsweringAdventism in the future.

[@100superaguila1]

Myles from answering adventism is a fraud that has been exposed for lying. Advent defense league which is a group of adventists on you tube has called him out for a debate and exposed his lies. Myles refuses to debate them, myles got called out by them for lying about waldensian history and myles refused to show up to their live to defend his lies. Myles only debated one sda pastor on a neutral platform and got obliterated, go watch his debate with anthony burrel. He got exposed and called out in the comment section for constantly interrupting, lying, and not answering questions. Myles himself muted me for calling him out on his waldensians lies

[@ambiguity4198]

Why not send him and your Myles to ADL respond channel? You know they'll both come back with no teeth and a bloody nose from scriptural whips 😂🤣😂🤣

[@sweet1mcs]

​@@ambiguity4198"No teeth and bloody nose"? From ADL??? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 HIGHLY UNLIKELY!!!

[@iThinkBiblically]

Yeah it’s coming up. Probably in two weeks

[@ambiguity4198]

@@sweet1mcs You can call yourselves Christians all you want but that doesn't make you a real follower of Christ. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday,today and forever. Malachi 3 v 6 " I am the LORD and I change not ". Jesus gave the 10 commandments and you spit on them. Jesus kept his Father's commandments and abided in his love John 15 v 9-12 .Jesus said if you love me keep my commandments John 14 v 15. You teach that don't keep them just believe. 1John 2 v4- 6 says "He that says I know him and keepeth not his commandments is a liar and no truth is in him or her " which means you're not only lying now,but that you lie all the time and that makes you fake Christians who makes it hard for Jews and Moslems to come to Jesus Christ when they hear such falsehoods. Repent

[@danielchidaushe1559]

1 Cor. 9:27 But I keep control of my body, and bring it into subjection, lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. If it is impossible for a believer to lose salvation, why did Paul make such a statement??

[@MFD541]

Thanks for having this discussion. I read the accounts of Ellen G. Whites visions and that leads me to believe that she was a deceived woman. The scriptures do not support her "visions" or the way she acted during a vision.

[@jeffsimpson-h4g]

what accounts and by whom were they written would be my questions. have you ever really read how Daniel and John were in vision, or Peter on the house top of Simon the tanner just before Cornelius' messengers arrived?

[@Feroxx65]

I'm adventist for 59 fruitful years. I accepted all the 28 fundamental beliefs of the church. The more they attack the doctrine of investigative judgment the more I study it and found out it has a true biblical foundation anchored in Daniel 8:14. Only those who don't study carefully and objectively refused to acknowledge the truth of such judgment. I'm confident that the sda church is God's remnant church in the last days because it is only the church that fits to fulfill the loud cry of the three angels message in Rev.14:6. No other churches would qualify it especially to 99% of all christians who are commandments violators. Satan hates the SDA people because they are the ones who obey God's commandments. Rev.12:17.

[@michaelnewzealand1888]

Praise the Lord Jesus Christ. Good discussion I think it would be a good idea if you had two guests who could both give arguments for and against. The main thing that concerns me is when the SDA members elevate the writings of EG White to that of scripture. And some of them will play around and others will admit to that.

[@ambiguity4198]

The problem is that alot of "Christians " would rather have Ellen White say things that they themselves think. Putin words in her mouth and feel good about themselves in breaking God's law

[@jamauretrichardt6789]

The guest had to deal with EGW as her quotes were brought up as the teachings of the SDA church. The guest tried reading our actual fundamental belief relating to salvation and was interrupted. You can only discuss/refute what is infront of you

[@charnelallan7159]

​@@ambiguity4198Really? Where is ur intégrité?

[@michaelnewzealand1888]

@@ambiguity4198 no need to put words in her mouth. But I believe every word that comes from the mouth of God, the Bible, not from any particular man or woman. I think SDA's "idolize" Ellen G White, or at the very least make her an infallible spokeswoman aka prophetess, which amounts to the same thing. It's a bit like the Catholic dotrine of papal infallibility. I don't believe any one is infallible, apart from the scriptures. If any SDA is willing to admit she is fallible and not all of her writings are 100 percent accurate I will applaud you.

[@ambiguity4198]

@@michaelnewzealand1888 what benefits would be accredited to me by your applaud? First your bearing false witness against thy neighbour as no where in EGW writings did she ever make a claim of being infallible neither is it in the 28 fundamental beliefs of the SDA doctrines. Unless you produce evidence to substantiate your assertion,I demand an apology immediately 😎😎