Is the world running out of babies? | The News Agents

Forget everything you know about an exploding world population.
The sad truth is, our birthrate is plummeting globally to the point where there soon won't be enough young workers to take care of the aging population.
What happens then? Can you financially incentivise people to have kids? Should we be thinking harder about immigration?
And why does this subject - and its pronatalist rhetoric - so often become the domaine of the authoritarian right?
We'll hear from Elon, Jordan and Jacob - about why we should all be having more babies.
#worldpopulation #finance #immigration #News #Politics #NewsAgents #EmilyMaitlis #JonSopel #LewisGoodall
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Emily Maitlis, Jon Sopel and Lewis Goodall - three of the UK’s top journalists - host a brand-new daily news podcast: The News Agents.
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[@localshaman]

Young people can't afford their rent, how TF we meant to afford kids?

[@tabbymoonshine5986]

This

[@jakel8627]

Child benefit pays for rent. My mum never worked. So have mum claim child benefit and a get a free house, then have dad earn £20-40k per year. There, now you're able to afford kids.

[@aethellstan]

@@jakel8627 child benefit in no way pays for rent. who renting privately can pay their rent just from this.

[@123bwlch]

@@jakel8627 People want a better life and have kids. People do not want to struggle and have kids.

[@TheLightningeater]

​@@jakel8627Most people don't plan to raise children in poverty

[@Typhin]

Why bring a child into this world only to be exploited for their labour by wealthy prics

[@dorothyb.]

I guess that’s the fundamentals of capitalism to which communism is the alternative. Both regimes beautiful til they fail and deeply flawed sadly

[@deanlowdon8381]

@@dorothyb. There is a huge middle ground between pure capitalism and communism!

[@ZZ-ek7mx]

By ensuring you educate your kids to become those wealthy ‘nice people’ and yes, many of them are nice, and smart, and generous and contribute a great deal via their positive, innovative and risk taking nature. Oh, and many of them have made it up from the very bottom as well.

[@deanlowdon8381]

@@ZZ-ek7mx That’s sounds like the ‘American Dream’ the rich and powerful have managed to sell to those with none…

[@annaclarke7643]

For effing sake. It will be women who will bear the burden of this population growth. Men twitter on but honestly how many men want children.

[@underthesequins7589]

Is population decline the problem, or is the economic system that assumes and requires impossible never-ending growth the problem? The system itself is delusional.

[@deanlowdon8381]

Agreed, a system that relies on increasingly high birth rates is clearly flawed!

[@liamcragin]

It’s not about growth - it’s about decline. If you have essentially an upside down pyramid where there are more retired people than there are to pay for them, and not enough of a tax base to pay for the welfare state, you are looking at an unsustainable situation.

[@hobbabobba7912]

It is population decline. Next question.

[@archie7218]

You either have to have growth or decline. Its practically impossible to have neither because its a virtuous cycle, growth leads to more growth; decline leads to further decline. If you could somehow just maintain at 0% growth forever that would be fine.

[@Nitzpitz]

The decline of population will mean much more than economic decline. It is social decline too, as facilities dwindle and people have less options

[@rockallmusic]

Rich people: Have more children!!! Millennials/Zoomers: Let us buy a flat on a median salary so we have the stability to raise children Rich people: Hmmmmm... no

[@stewartellinson8846]

maybe, in the UK, the idea of stable social renting disappearing is a huge problem

[@rockallmusic]

@@stewartellinson8846 My landlord's selling up this month (short notice) so I'm having to move to a property with a +33% rent increase and yearly rent rises of a minimum of the UK CPI rate written into the contract. There's no way I'd be able to work full time, raise children, and flat hunt every couple of years against short time pressures - especially with years of public sector pay freeze.

[@deanlowdon8381]

@@stewartellinson8846 Renting is never going to be a long term solution. What happens when you reach retirement age and your pension isn’t sufficient to live off?

[@stewartellinson8846]

​@@deanlowdon8381social renting is. Also, we need rent controls as many countries have and as we had before the 1980s

[@rathelmmc3194]

Most western democracies have sold out their own citizens by allowing foreign money laundering through their real estate markets. Foreign ownership in the single family home space should be illegal everywhere. There should also be pretty heavy restrictions on any rental investment into the single family space as far as I'm concerned. When you look at birth rates, families who live in single family homes are above replacement rate while people in multi-family dwellings are below replacement rate (this I believe is true in the US not for certain with Europe).

[@user-ly9wr8wj5s]

If rich people hate it, it's a great thing.

[@peopleofearth6250]

They don't hate it. They love it.

[@gergelycsuros2051]

I have seen this kind of comment before. What if, they hate it, because it can be so bad, that even w lot of money, even they wont be able to dodge the catastrophic effects.

[@brandonboi9465]

Only a small group of rich people are warning against this. The rest are encouraging it since they'll be able to obtain even more wealth and power because their competitors won't be able to survive.

[@RipMinner]

Built a society were having kids is punished and then surprised that no one is having kids.

[@bogdankovalenko5096]

exactly!

[@MegaDePorter]

Sounds to me like the wolves are wanting the sheep to have more lambs !

[@maam-yj8ph]

Apex predators are famous for becoming endangered and extinct.

[@tricieb.5921]

Thats sick

[@Macheako]

@@maam-yj8ph uh huh, suuuurrrrrrrrreeeee And shamu ain’t real 🐋 😂

[@brandonboi9465]

Low fertility rates will have the exact opposite affects most people assume. Resources become more scarce (no one to make them) housing will skyrocket in cost in the areas with few remaining jobs and collapse everywhere else (look at japan). Government programs collapse (universal Healthcare becomes a pipe dream) the rich become even more wealthy and powerful since their competition is dying out. Less opportunities for career development (who will you manage?). And the percentage of elderly will just keep growing generation after generation, creating a viscous cycle.

[@jamienewstart1756]

Cost of living, no disposable income, war, poverty, technology, dating apps, jobs and careers, all playing their part 😮

[@beaulieuc8910]

and many just wan't them at all

[@davidking9222]

Of course Billionaires want people to have more children. Who will be their grandchidrens' work slaves. Why is the argument "economy" . It should be quality of life and the environment. The global economy is the problem. Billionaires need more money, so make cheap unhealthy food, and polute the environment to maximise profit. Young people are getting into £10'000s of debt to get an education, and will get the average job, that won't pay them enough to house and feed a family.

[@Godfrey544]

the older cadre of billionaires are the ones who campaigned for people to have LESS chilrden. The rockefellers for example.

[@kb4903]

Governments more Interested in looking after old voters rather than young people who can’t afford a family and house but are expected to pay for older social care.

[@aethellstan]

that's democracy for you. most people are selfish and want what they want. we have a system that pays out money no matter what. for example ex-pats in spain where it's warmer and drier expect to receive the cold weather payments we pay pensioners when the temperature gets below a threshold for a few days. and when asked what they will spend it on, it's golf or meals out etc. when asked why they should get it they complain about people wanting to remove it from them because it's "their right" to have it.

[@sookibeulah9331]

Governments look after the voters who vote them into office far more than they do those who don’t vote.

[@TheRealMcCoyAndChipsAhoy]

@@sookibeulah9331 Do they really? lol

[@sookibeulah9331]

@@TheRealMcCoyAndChipsAhoy it’s all relative. Just because governments look after voters who vote for them far more than those who don’t vote doesn’t mean they look after their voters well. It just means they look after them far more than not at all - which needn’t be very much. lol

[@stylebyniall]

If the world was a place you could bring children into, then the younger generations would have them, this is like the beginning of the handmaids tale the way he speaks about it

[@Feministretribution]

And in which society actually supported parenting.

[@ZZ-ek7mx]

But the world IS such a place. And millions of people do bring children into it. Maybe more would if they were not scared off by negative sentiments such as yours?

[@kaybrown7733]

​@ZZ-ek7mx A lot of those people do it for economic reasons. Few want to spend their young healthy years raising kids.

[@rathelmmc3194]

The western world has never been safer, cleaner or more economically accommodating than any time in the past when birth rates were higher. Or do you think that during times like the Black Plague it was better?

[@cobrakaiisback4709]

​@@rathelmmc3194when women can file divorce or worse cheat on u get pregnant and then the kid is not yours yeah that is a problem. Ladies are not ladies anymore.

[@houseofmali2659]

I can’t even afford to move out what makes you think I can afford to raise a human properly? If you want more babies then maybe give us an incentive

[@tricieb.5921]

Or maybe they need to have babies instead, they got the money 🤷🏿‍♀️

[@waynerileyart]

Rich people panicking because they're running out of young people to exploit and the young people that they do have are not interested in exploiting other nation's to survive because they'd rather treat other people like humans because after years of actually learning about each others differences. Its a beautiful thing.

[@Cauldron6]

You said all that needs to be said!

[@aldunlop4622]

Well, that's not the issue, it's about the bigger issue of the survival of humans, but feel free to believe the usual Gen Z script.

[@Lucubration2]

​@@aldunlop4622 We survived with populations of mere 1000s at times in history. We'll survive this population decline.

[@jamesjarrett52]

You were right until you started on about young people not wanting to exploit other people.

[@waynerileyart]

@jamesjarrett52 I'm right period most young people don't have the capability to exploit others the way older people do and even if they do they're EASILY contested by other young people so it becomes survival of the fittest.

[@gazilew]

People employed by the establishment, complaining on behalf of the establishment, that there will be less people to exploit in the future.

[@Dee-mj3pu]

Vast stretches on Earth are vacant. Take a plane ride and see!

[@DD-rt9lc]

No more cannon fodder, sweat shop workers and rich mens play things.

[@lunaskies624]

One point that wasn't brought up was that perhaps the reason more women had children in decades past was due to the social pressures imposed upon them. They had children because they felt they had no choice. Today, women as a whole have more freedom to decide to live the life they want, whether that be with or without children (economic pressures not withstanding).

[@amyburt8451]

Yes!!! I thought that too!

[@deanlowdon8381]

I think there is still some social pressure to have kids. I’m in my early 50’s, and even as a man I’m occasionally questioned about not having kids, and it’s certainly worse for women. I do agree than that expectation isn’t quite as strong as it used to be though.

[@robertlocock5636]

Also no mention of modern contraception and family planning overall. We all know a lot of families started because they "had" to get married, though not so much these days.

[@ZZ-ek7mx]

The ‘emancipation’ of women was mentioned. In fact what only came in at the end in a small way was the pressure on on men and women to NOT have children early but to go out and work and build careers, thereby potentially missing the biological ticking clock. In the US feminists protested against this man sharing his research and had him cancelled from speaking at universities and venues, all because they did not like their own interpretation of his research findings.

[@ZZ-ek7mx]

@@deanlowdon8381​​⁠​⁠is that really ‘pressure’, or just curiosity?

[@richardspillers6282]

Im 38 years old. I work 100+ hours a week. Im not able to meet anyone and conversations on dating apps are a joke. I live on the job. It would be a waste of money for me to pay rent or a mortgage for a place i only see once or twice a year. Even if i had a local job dating is still a joke. The dating pool for men my age is bleak. I started noticing a shortage of childless females when I was 15. There's no incentive for most people in the US to grind anymore. I see video after video, report after report and documentary after documentary on this. We all know what the problems are and we just keep grinding and crying about it online when we should have been actively revolting 15 years ago.

[@blombidobadila8084]

Revolting against what, who...............?

[@nomadpurple6154]

There a "shortage of childless females" So there is too many women having children???? Or is your problem that women don't want to have children with you? Do you think referring to them as "females" might have something to do with that?

[@goofusmaximus1482]

Not everyone wants children. And for those who do, if you make it prohibitively expensive to have kids, people will be discouraged from making more people.

[@anitakay_]

the last guest denying that wealth inequality/economic hardship doesn’t play a factor is laughable.

[@ifiva]

Love that Emily challenged him on it when every single example played from his own documentary proved him wrong

[@apedanger]

bad guest speaker

[@ZZ-ek7mx]

You must be suffering from, ‘ hear what you want to hear syndrome’? The guest is backed up by the statistical facts.

[@dans864]

Wealth inequality has nothing to do with it the poorest countries in the world have more kids it has to do with religiosity and a culture that wants to have kids I no longer value the opinions who want to use this as a method to input communism and Marxism into society fortunately my kids will inherit the earth and you and your ideas will cease to exist

[@MrXaphus]

You should re-watch the video, he didn't say that at all. He said finances are a factor but its more of a post-rationalization to say that - the biggest factor that is driving this delayed parenthood phenomenon is not prioritizing finding the right partner in your twenties, because when that right partner is met the desire to start a family increases and more often than not the couple finds a way to make it happen (even with the ever-present financial pressures).

[@BEACHDUDE71]

It's too expensive to have children, and it's not going to get better

[@trydowave]

Lets see... here in UK. Rents and mortgages are ridiculous. No housing security. No job security. The world is teetering on the edge of ecological disaster, ww3 and a possible nuclear holocaust. Hmm.. I can't imagine why people aren't having kids?

[@niqjaw5009]

Exactly. Unbelievably people still are buying into this theory of perpetual procreation - nothing more than a toxic Ponzi scheme.

[@Tompiano999]

I don't want children. As a single male I like my freedom and live mortgage free at 37. I've got my piano that's all I need.

[@Shikuesi]

Not scalable.

[@pauldickson3455]

It's more the women wombs that matter.

[@SirHargreeves]

Genetic dead end.

[@Jonnyicey]

"the bloodline ends with me" 😂

[@beaulieuc8910]

as a woman who is childfree, i love being free too. I don't want to make a baby, breastfeed, do diapers, deal with them if they are school shooters, no thanks.

[@freeheeler09]

The population is still forecast to hit 10 to12 billion this century. And we are paving over and polluting the environment so quickly that the carrying capacity of our planet is declining rapidly. Populations in a few countries may be declining, but in many countries, populations are still increasing rapidly and disasterously.

[@dabirdalton]

Those countries still having children well above the replacement will inherit the earth while those countries with declining birth rates will disappear.

[@Gunna5067]

She is not listening to what he is saying. It's basically a practical problem and we're not planning for it.

[@jmac5951]

I agree. She's focused on ideological issues, when he's trying to define and solve the problem

[@aldunlop4622]

50 seconds in and she's already babbling about the alt-right. I thought this was about population, she's biased.

[@DeborahWalkerXOXO]

She listened. He agrees with the alt-right so he can't answer her. I think YOU aren't listening to him.

[@kylebird91]

​@@DeborahWalkerXOXO He told her to stop using immigration as a birth rate fix, as it does not increase birth rates, it only creates a multi cultural country. And that is a different conversation.

[@DeborahWalkerXOXO]

@kylebird91 immigration creates the numbers required to sustain the pensioners. It then bolsters the next generation. To sustain the pensioners. The issue that is creating this contraction has a root. WS patriarchy. It created the capitalism we suffer under. It created the system he is using to "taste" other peoples cultures like food on a plate he doesn't want touching. It created the system where the contributions of anyone not W&M is dismissed as unnecessary of commensurate compensation. He upholds that system via numbers and word salad. She listened. He didn't like that she heard him.

[@nickyd922]

Responsible people have children later in life because they want to ensure the kids have a fair shot in life with adequate resources.

[@Agemouk]

This is what I was taught, and I agree with. Sadly biology doesn't play this game - fertility doesn't wait for you to get that promotion.

[@ZZ-ek7mx]

So society was led to believe this, and at the conclusion of this interview Emily and the researcher touched on a solution, that society should be geared so as NOT favour this delay. Besides the biological clock, it can often be a falsehood that having kids early spells disaster. I know of Drs that had kids whilst still at med school and have thriving families and careers.

[@StimParavane]

Wrong. Women who party with bad boys in their 20s then struggle to successfully pair bond and form long-term relationships in their 30s.

[@MrakS]

​@@StimParavanemaybe there are bad girls who corrupt nice boys?

[@Appleboo222]

Well people are waiting and that’s still not enough.

[@cuddlebug1957]

Here’s an idea: let the billionaires fund the “welfare state”, Medicare, social security, etc themselves. They can afford it. If the billionaires want more workers, then they can also fund universal childcare, public schools, and after school programs.

[@darknightbegins85]

39, no kids, attorney, vasectomy, never married. Life is great!

[@matthew504]

The system is so expensive that people cant afford children

[@kellyhawkes3191]

Well I had 3, so I did my bit, but I doubt my children will have any, they simply can't afford it.

[@31Blaize]

Two words for you: carrying capacity. What we *need* is a different economic paradigm, not more people.

[@jameslawrence3666]

precisely what Peter Zeihan talks about (is very worried about)

[@g.s.8409]

What world are you living in?!? Sensible ideas are not welcome!!!! 😢 😅

[@shoelessjoe428]

Tax the rich.

[@Ruth-os4mi]

Perhaps we've reached carrying capacity.

[@rathelmmc3194]

You don't know what the carrying capacity of the planet is, nobody knows. It could be a trillion humans for all we know.

[@KathyRose848]

Young people can't afford to have kids anymore.

[@beaulieuc8910]

and many don't want them anyway

[@ryans1623]

@@beaulieuc8910 No most people do, if you listend to what he said, is that women who have kids have just as many as the generation before, if you have one kid the chances of you having another are extremely high, its the number of women that dont have any at all, is what is skewing the numbers.

[@Iquey]

AND we will be expected to care for aging parents! Older Millenials are seeing younger gen X do this already.

[@theredknight9314]

False. If that were true poor countries wouldn’t have higher births

[@Azamat421]

It’s not false only Africa has high births

[@m0601168]

Only reason we need more people is to prop up a failing social system to look after all the older people The pyramid scheme of pensions and poor social care will collapse as the base will be narrower than the top Unfortunately this generation of 20-40 somethings that have already been shafted by 2 financial disasters, covid and the biggest squeeze on living ever will only be shafted more when they have to look after the generation before them that had it all and squandered it on policies to only help the rich and themselves

[@StimParavane]

We have dealt a bad hand to our young people.

[@alexdavis-mann8513]

Boomers have killed the country with there selfish ways.

[@maynnemillares]

These people are talking BS, it is all about the cost of having children.

[@Joshua-eo5hr]

No it's not if that was true poorer people would have less children

[@pastyman001]

Too expensive, demanding, time and space consuming, unless you have Mogg's inheritance.

[@GodsOwnPrototype]

Nope. It's about priorities. The future belongs to those who turn up. If you value things other than children over having children then you won't have children; there's a long list of reasons & excuses otherwise but the fundamental fact doesn't change.

[@beaulieuc8910]

Having kids increases crime and overloaded prisons

[@christopheryoungbeck8837]

You a single mom?

[@michaeladkins6]

Who can afford kids?

[@AImusic-yq4gq]

Funny because I see single mothers with no job having kids and the kids still alive.

[@hmq9052]

No one ever could. Read your history

[@eeaotly]

​@@hmq9052History is made by the victors and victors have money to raise children.

[@hmq9052]

@@eeaotly People used to live in far worse conditions.

[@eeaotly]

@@hmq9052 Short, miserable lives.

[@farinshore8900]

What an offensive question! Babies are NOT commodities.

[@PiratePorts]

wonder why people "can't find a partner" to have kids with.. Im sure the number of car seats are making a huge difference. Nothing to do with economic or political issues like wage stagnation, the cost of living, or the cost of child care.

[@fergusmurphy8310]

I think it's both. That was a memorable example of how a material issue can impact decisions about having more children.

[@PiratePorts]

@@fergusmurphy8310 I don't disagree, human behavior is fickle. "thinking fast and slow" and "nudge" illustrate that very well.

[@ItsTheCatSpeaking24]

Also- for the same factors, young people can't date- long work hours, little pay, fewer resources and opportunities to socialise, less energy to socialise

[@m0ther_bra1ned12]

​@ItsTheCatSpeaking24 nasty, selfish and entitled women that won't even talk to me or are worth dating anyway? Nobody wants to hold women responsible for anything.

[@celondelon351]

You reap what you sow

[@bennylush]

Give it a few years and we will be growing them in pods .... its a brave new world.

[@maam-yj8ph]

Who will be raising them?

[@earthwormjim3269]

@@maam-yj8ph Mostly AI.

[@jujutrini8412]

Successive governments have made choices about whether or not they want to encourage young people to have kids. They have chosen not to. Scholars have known since the seventies and eighties that this would happen to our population.

[@pce12345]

I think people want certain types of people to have children and others not so much

[@kamalpreetsingh1686]

Talk about job uncertainty, low wages and unemployment first ..... Dear philosophers

[@antoniosteve]

So you're saying - tax me more to pay for wealthy people to have children? Get lost.

[@maam-yj8ph]

Exactly. Quit punishing your tax base for existing and you might have more of a tax base.

[@GodsOwnPrototype]

I think it was: give parents tax breaks to alleviate the economic burdens of parenthood...otherwise the poor will be without a safety net in their old age as society & the economy will be too top heavy to provide it.

[@user-ug1eo4xb7z]

This isn't a left/right politics or a race issue, it's about babies. If it's too expensive for women in their fertile years to have children, then the economy needs to be structured in such a way to come up with solutions to solve that.

[@user-on5dl9hc2z]

Woman don't need no man... Hypergamy is a great filter for our species. Every safeguard was removed and women given total independence and this is the result. Every read history the emperor of China had cities filled with women for breeding. The future is this. Women will form harems and share the same men. 80% men are invisible. Women's rights equals end of civilization...

[@earthwormjim3269]

Steven J Shaw said that delayed parenthood is the main reason for falling birthrates around the globe. Women are not young and fertile forever. People need to accept that a woman's optimal biological age for conceiving children is 18 to 27 years old, and structure society around that. That's a 10 year window that is currently being consumed by the pursuit of higher education, striving to build a career, and doing other things that keep them busy until that window has closed. The other thing Steven didn't touch on (and few people would, because it's not politically correct to talk about) is that women have become victims of their own success. What I mean is, women generally marry across and up socioeconomically -- they ideally want a long-term partner whose education level and income level is equal or greater than their own. As women have advanced in educational attainment and career success, they're now out-educating men and out-earning men. As a result, women's pool of long-term dating/mating prospects has shrunk.

[@user-ft5kh5um1r]

​@@earthwormjim326927? Boy, menopause doesn't hit most women at 27. Go get educated on womens reproductive system.

[@nomadpurple6154]

@@earthwormjim3269 Actually we'd love it if men could fix the car or build a wardrobe, but sadly it seems our father's or grandfather's generation were the last who could do that.

[@janephilpott6565]

I prefer being a dog-mum 🐕🙌 they missed that argument!

[@SirHargreeves]

Sad.

[@barhat961]

Dogs are fine they are not above humans

[@niqjaw5009]

Cats not kids! Even cacti better than kids!

[@ColdBaltBlue]

Sending your baby lots of pets and love. I’m gonna be a dog dad one of these days.

[@SkeletonDrums1]

Long story short is that Millennial's and all generations after them, won't get state pension as there won't be enough new workers putting money into the system. Coupled with no carers to look after them in their final years. All that on a backdrop of never being able to buy a house! Our parents generation have really taken all and left no crumbs on the table for anybody! Solution: Get saving into your pension & Stocks and Shares ISA asap...and get fit because help ain't coming!

[@nobillismccaw7450]

Did this . The “G.F.C.” wiped it all out.

[@SkeletonDrums1]

@@nobillismccaw7450 I was too young to have been investing at that time, but I imagine it was heartbreaking. However, following the GFC, it's been a huge run of growth ever since. Buy the dip as they say, dollar cost averaging into that depressed market would have made you something in the region of 250% by now.

[@SkeletonDrums1]

​@@nobillismccaw7450 it was a terrible time, sorry to hear it affected you so profoundly. The Markets has gone up 250% since then though, so dollar cost averaging into it since the crash would have put you in an unprecedented position. Markets rise and fall, weathering the storm is the true test!

[@seanturley447]

33:20 Emily asks the key question which is finances, and the mask falls with the normal reply from someone on the right, "it's always been expensive to own a home, but we found a way" No mate, its the disparity in wages vs house prices, your generation just continues to fck us

[@Shikuesi]

But that ratio isn't the only relevant number - there's average interest rates too. The HP/wages ratio was lower in the 1980s, but interest rates were often in double figures, which made mortgage payments larger particularly in the early years of mortgage terms.

[@pce12345]

💯

[@karlosthejackel69]

Try looking us Emily’s back ground

[@stefanoparlatore7141]

@@Shikuesithere was way more public housing, rents were cheaper, and because houses were cheaper your down payment was a bigger% of the price.

[@Ruth-os4mi]

Women : We can't afford it. Scott Galloway : Women don't understand their biological clocks.

[@beaulieuc8910]

women - we don't want the pain of childbirth, risk of death and to lose our freedom

[@Ruth-os4mi]

@@beaulieuc8910 Exactly. But Scott Galloway knows better than us.

[@kiwifruitpoo]

@@beaulieuc8910Loss of freedom? V sad to say. Children provide your life with meaning that you can’t even imagine before they come.

[@ColdBaltBlue]

@@kiwifruitpooYou prepared to do all that yourself?

[@user-ft5kh5um1r]

​@@kiwifruitpoohaving children throws you into poverty

[@TheSapphire51]

There is no shortage of children, but there are plenty of children being starved, bombed etc. Stop mistreating children if you want people to have more.

[@milesblack1830]

this

[@upendasana7857]

Absolutely!! on the one hand they're saying "have more kids"when there are people struggling to feed and clothe their kids in this country and then in other parts of the world they are being bombed and starved to death.Who would even want to bring children into this world,to be cogs in the machine to make money for the miliary industrial complex. NO affordable housing,education being cut and no affordable childcare,community break down,climate breakdonw,global wars ...endless reasons to not have kids

[@maam-yj8ph]

Exactly. What provisions are there for all of the foster kids and orphans out there?

[@MrJonnyr85]

The fact that people like Elon, Jordan and Jacob exist is one reason why I'd never want to bring a child into this world.

[@stephenelkington4971]

A bit harsh on poor Katie Price [aka Jordan] -She's not that bad !

[@SirHargreeves]

Pathetic.

[@kaybrown7733]

Here here! ❤

[@astriddececco3005]

At minute 34:00, I disagree with him. Poor people had children because they had zero or little education on or access to contraception. No rational person wants to raise their child in poverty because it is one of the hardest prisons to get out of.

[@durin3415]

She's got a pre-ordained script running in her head, and only occassionally asked a real question for a real conversation.

[@Eric-ej3oy]

If the world is running out of babies then it's running out of problems.

[@Art-is-craft]

Nope. The problem will be that no welfare system to care for the childless elderly.

[@xjmmjbnqfstjdijoj2044]

As long as you're fine being 85 and still having to work and being extremely taxed, despite your country having fewer and fewer functioning services (hospitals, supermarkets, infrastructure, etc.) life is going to be blissful

[@xneutralgodx]

No problems because of a giant problem. Don't know rather have many

[@TCJones]

As much as i would love kids, there is no way i could ever afford them, thanks the torys and my 20% wage cut!

[@thelastonequesqueca8982]

If they're worried about low birth rates, they should probably also be against and talk more actively about 13,000 children being murdered with no western leader batting an eye except mild encouragement to follow international humanitarian law

[@alundavies1016]

Growing up I remember all the chat was about the population explosion. How the Earth couldn’t take the rapidly increasing population… Now all the talking heads come out and say that the Human race is doomed because we haven’t yet filled the planet to standing room only? Which is it? I get the distinct impression that we are currently seeing a very silly premise being expressed. We can’t just keep growing the population, there will be a tipping point. If we need to work out a way to re-organise society then I am sure we will manage it, we tend to re-organise pretty organically. More effort and resource into care, infrastructure and fixing the bits of planet that we have broken. It’s not that hard.

[@jsward96]

Two things can be true at once. Because of the baby boom, the world population exploded in a relatively short span of time. The population has continued to grow, but the boomers, and their children have failed to replace themselves. Thus we are headed toward an inverted pyramid.

[@nomadpurple6154]

@@jsward96 The inverted pyramid has to happen eventually. Why not now? Or to avoid the inverted pyramid ever happening there would have to be an elderly cull. Extra strong Cvid, anyone?

[@jsward96]

@@nomadpurple6154 What makes you say that an inverted pyramid has to happen eventually?

[@tiffanywatson8316]

​@@jsward96Because the conditions for the baby boom, at least in the US aren't here anymore. There has been no WW, which left an economic vacuum for our country to fill. Most of the new inventions that are being created need fewer people to run them as opposed to manufacturing in the 1950's-70's. Medical advancements mean we live longer and healthier than we ever have, so some jobs won't need new workers as often as in years past.

[@fanfeck2844]

Why have children in the U.K. when we can just import them like we do now

[@keithparker1346]

Maybe we shouldn't import people

[@xjmmjbnqfstjdijoj2044]

And you will end up living in a completely different society...just don't whine when everything you consider "normal" will no longer exist

[@blombidobadila8084]

@@xjmmjbnqfstjdijoj2044 What is normal in the UK and what is positive about this normality?

[@mikez2779]

make housing more affordable make childcare more affordable make education (and not just for kids) more affordable and i very much believe this would be problem solved without needing extensive immigration

[@ZZ-ek7mx]

…and how do you make that ‘affordable’ without the tax revenue from a large labour force and business activity?

[@dans864]

​@@ZZ-ek7mxsame way they all do the magic of Marxism😂

[@shaymalchione809]

Oh no that’s socialism a scary scary word.😱

[@keithparker1346]

​@@ZZ-ek7mxtax the rich. It's not rocket science

[@sen.m7832]

There may be reasons economic or otherwise that people don't have children but by and large it's this: In every single country with access to effective birth control the population is dropping. Why? Because women never wanted the amount of children they were having to begin with. And now that they don't have to - they aren't. It's that simple really.

[@LadyMarigoldWithers]

I 💯 think this is the case!

[@upendasana7857]

They akso want the social,economic and emotional security etc to be able to bring up children ina healthy environment.Many women work now and do not want to risk their careers or get lower pay for taking time off to have kids having worked or studied for a career and also finding suitable partners with which to have a happy family...many reasons a woman might cut off having kids

[@Erintii]

Men also. Not every men wants bunch of kids and housewife chattering about them all the time. They also want quality of life and relationships. Travels not diapers, business together not baby crying, pursuing hobbies not baby screaming and better intimacy. Ppl want to chose when, with whom, and how many kids to have if any. Conservatives can't understand ppl want more struggle.

[@user-dt3iv5oc6f]

Ever been to Africa , they ain’t running out of kids there 😂

[@newjerseyselfdefense6199]

If they’re not talking about young me being gainfully employed the conversation is moot.

[@priyankarmajumder4152]

You can't force women if they don't want to raise children for 20 years of their lives. They are realising that it's not worth it for them.

[@dmcg6074]

Universal free childcare is the only answer

[@adamdavid5603]

Yeah if you and those that agree with it pay for it, just dont expect me to use my labour to pay for other peoples kids when already paid over a million in tax yet use no public services. If people want kids they will have them regardless of costs, this isnt about money but priorities being different to past generations.

[@dmcg6074]

@@adamdavid5603 the tax generated from the mother's being able to work would go along way towards paying for it. Probably reduce the reliance on imported labour aswell, and contribute to a better functioning society,. Congratulations on contributing over a million in taxes by the way, is that annually? I guarantee your taxes already pays for other people's kids

[@GodsOwnPrototype]

That used be called motherhood & a single living wage.

[@ss-ds2dn]

​@@GodsOwnPrototype that was a scam

[@MeMe-zq7qd]

They’ve sort of done that here in Canada (10$ a day daycare) and it’s been a disaster. Now there are 4 year long waitlists to get into childcare and daycares are so overwhelmed that some have stopped taking more kids. Daycares have also been struggling financially and losing staff because the 10$ a day subsidy is causing stagnant salaries (which are low to begin with So people have been forced to quit their jobs because they can’t get their child in to daycare because everyone is utilizing the daycare system.

[@philallen7626]

You could make great strides towards a higher birth rate with house building. Price young adults out of family homes, and you price them out of having families. Cost and availability of child care will also be putting a big dent in the birth rate in the UK too.

[@jonathandnicholson]

Get married and then you can pool resources.

[@Benjamin.Jamin.]

​@@jonathandnicholson Even then out of reach for many/most and both parents will have to work FT which makes home and work life incredibly hectic and stressful.

[@jonathandnicholson]

​@@Benjamin.Jamin. When has life ever not been stressful? During the Middle Ages people had worries you do not and still managed to be fruitful and multiply. You are not the first person to have had a stressful life because life is stressful and no ideal time exists other than the present. Strive for a life with meaning rather than a life of comfort.

[@jonathandnicholson]

@@Benjamin.Jamin. Let me put it another way. What would you rather have on your gravestone: 'A still beloved husband and father' or 'Watched Netflix whilst he waited to afford a mansion with the promotion that never happened'. Think about the joy of your kid(s) opening a birthday present you and your wife lovingly gave and all of the other happy memories you will give. Choose life because you never know what joy the adventure may bring. By the way, I am speaking of a position of regret, so I am giving this advice out of love rather judgement.

[@Benjamin.Jamin.]

​@@jonathandnicholsonquite. And people have higher standards for themselves and their children. To be celebrated surely.

[@sockwithaticket]

Here's an idea, how about we tear up the neo-liberal economic consensus that keeps expanding wealth inequality. Instead of funnelling wealth into fewer and fewer hands, spread it out and allow people to live comfortable lives. Then they might think about having kids rather than wondering if they'll have enough money to pay for rent, bills and food this month. Second guest has his head in the sand.

[@jujutrini8412]

Everyone knows the only way society can be run is by a capitalist model - nothing else exists. 🙈🙊🙉

[@fatherofthenoo]

Social attitudes have looked down on those having children for years now. You reap what you sow.

[@cian1170]

what are you on about

[@fatherofthenoo]

@@cian1170 The perception over the last couple of decades have, namely due to negative media, is that people having children are essentially scroungers because the state needs to support them with various costs. Even the government reduced that support to only two children. Essentially saying "if you can't afford them, don't have them". This drip feed of negative media eventually works its way into the social psyche. That's how social manipulation works. Do you understand now?

[@deanlowdon8381]

Who has looked down on people having children!? 😂

[@ColdBaltBlue]

@@deanlowdon8381People who complain about “welfare queens” and any single parent who needs social support.

[@ekoheriyanto70]

Why bring lives into this world just to suffer....?

[@darrenwestbury8569]

over the last 20 odd years we have been getting told not to have kids now we need to play catch up big time!!

[@MrJayrenD]

Addressing gross economic inequalities would be a surefire way to increase the birth rate. Governments allow a situation where many in the prime-fertile range have to spend over 40% of their earnings on housing, allowing large retailers to dramatically increase food costs due to inflation (apparently) yet fail to decrease them in line with deflation and of course there's shrinkflation on goods. For the first time in human history, many of our species have the ability to choose to have kids, and the choice not to isn't immensely difficult to stick to given modern contraception, and as such massive cultural shifts are taking place with regards to reproduction. We have more knowledge than ever on how to take care of kids and we have the ability to give kids a healthy future BUT that's stupidly difficult if parents can't afford baby food (which is marked up unfairly high).

[@theredknight9314]

Wrong. Places with the highest birthrates are the poorest most unequal countries. So you are objectively wrong

[@MrJayrenD]

@@theredknight9314 This discussion isn't resolved around nations with high birthrates though is it? It's about low birthrates, typically in the post-industrial western block (including Japan and Korea). Your comment is a different discussion albeit related. Think before insulting bro

[@theredknight9314]

@@MrJayrenD in order to increase birth rates people need to become poor and unequal. Thats self evident.

[@charlottenoyes5535]

I’m sorry, but it is my view that the lack of genuinely affordable stable accommodation is a major factor in people delaying or not having children.

[@beaulieuc8910]

and many people just don't want to be trapped by them

[@nowisgodinyourlovelylife717]

Just grow a homeless child to become cheap labour for the rich

[@adiadi5832]

if everything goes to the 1%,the rest get screwd

[@BridgetWalker-xu8sw]

Don't want them. Children deserve parents who want them.

[@sinjinsmythe1571]

You mean the world is running out of taxpayers!!!

[@TheSapphire51]

It's interesting that these men never look at the problem of the growing inequality, laws favouring the rich and lack of support of families. They are treated more like cash cows by Mega companies who operate with impunity. Yes the economic cost and yes the fact that both parents are compelled to work to provide a roof over their families head. Why choose to interview two men and no woman on this matter. Let Women Speak for christsake.

[@vklnew9824]

Poorly aged white ♀️

[@Dragonsitter]

I’m 78+. I had my babies in 1972 and 3. I was deemed geriatric mother at 26/7 lol. My daughter was in her 30s and son decided no children. Life for grandsons is much bleaker…😳

[@beaulieuc8910]

great

[@amyburt8451]

I love Emily Maitlis for this ❤ I'm so tired of people having a negative attitude to people who choose for whatever reason not to have kids. And worryingly more than that, coercing them into having kids and making them fel that they are less than or selfish not to have kids

[@ZZ-ek7mx]

Are you really that tired, or just that you do not like being judged by others ? It seems you have no problem judging them. In some cases, maybe others, knowing the joy or parenthood are just keen to share that and don’t want those that they love to possibly miss out?

[@user-np2dp8ck4j]

@@ZZ-ek7mxbullsh!t. The people who encourage others to breed are overwhelmingly the epitome of ‘misery loves company’.

[@carkawalakhatulistiwa]

House to expensive for new family . Old rich people have 4 home As an investment. Increase house prices

[@gileswolfe8842]

1 Tax - why should people without kids pay more to subsidize those with kids, with some vague promise that those kids might look after the elderly in the future? 2 The model of future generations' income paying for the elderly doesn't work any more - rather ensure people are paid fairly to accumulate wealth in their lifetime.

[@nicks4934]

They pay your pension lol

[@gileswolfe8842]

@@nicks4934 It makes no sense that we pay our predecessors' benefits and then, expecting the next generation will do the same, receive worse benefits. Instead, change the system so that each generation parts for itself. Tax wealth to allow the shift to happen and pay people a fair wage to allow them to accumulate fully for their own retirement.

[@milesblack1830]

@@gileswolfe8842 this

[@SkeletonDrums1]

Simply having a sovereign wealth fund which has a sum paid in for every citizen born would solve the issue. Say £5K put in at birth, compounding interest for 70 years would give a very comfortable pension for all. The Ponzi set up we have today is absolutely bonkers and doomed to fail.

[@milesblack1830]

@@SkeletonDrums1 what you just described is also kind off a Ponzi scheme since continually rising stock markets relies to a certain extent on continually rising economies, therefore populations... if the population fell dramatically, the stock market would be unlikely to rise that much

[@Josh95x]

Obsessed with labelling everything far-right

[@Jonnyicey]

You just know to not listen as soon as you hear that term tho, BBC are terrible for it. When a lady and her child were stabbed by an immigrant in Ireland... They called the backlash "far right"

[@xjmmjbnqfstjdijoj2044]

Japan, South Korea and China are far-right white supremacists nations in their eyes😂

[@ScottBanks-mv9ic]

The very last thing said is what I have always believed, make the system work for people to have children young and then worry about a career later

[@ss-ds2dn]

How?

[@earthwormjim3269]

You are correct. Steven J Shaw said that delayed parenthood is the main reason for falling birthrates around the globe. Women are not young and fertile forever. People need to accept that a woman's optimal biological age for conceiving children is 18 to 27 years old, and structure society around that. That's a 10 year window that is currently being consumed by the pursuit of higher education, striving to build a career, and other things that keep them busy until that window has closed. The other thing Steven didn't touch on (and few people would, because it's not politically correct to talk about) is that women have become victims of their own success. What I mean is, women generally marry across and up socioeconomically -- they ideally want a long-term partner whose education level and income level is equal or greater than their own. As women have advanced in educational attainment and career success, they're now out-educating men and out-earning men. As a result, women's pool of long-term dating/mating prospects has shrunk.

[@alana8863]

Tories getting it wrong again.

[@jacobwilkins3532]

The economic argument doesn't stack up when considering historical relativism. The average family in Britain today is much richer than a family from the Victorian era, for instance, and they had plenty of children. (Obviously, the lack of contraception played a role.) Lifestyle expectations are a big factor too. People choose to live a better life rather than spend their money on children. Feminism also plays a factor. Women are increasingly having children in their thirties because they choose to focus on their careers in their twenties, waving goodbye to their most fertile years.

[@jasonburden7999]

I do have to disagree slightly with Robert with his statement "as people become richer, they have fewer children". There should be a caveat that between £5k and £500k in household income, yes this is true that they have fewer children. However below the £5k level and above the £500k level, families have more children. I believe this data was gathered and shared in the birth gap documentary by the second guest i.e. Stephen Shaw.

[@summerslifemusicandmore2382]

My home presently is on the same street I grew up 40 years ago. In my time there were kids running around the neighborhood, we used to run after the ice cream truck. Plenty of kids walking around, riding bikes those days (I guess we didn’t have the gaming to keep them indoors). Now… my neighborhood is full of old people. I counted 3 blocks the block before my house, my block, and the next block. Only two houses have kids. My house with my 3 boys and one other house with 2 kids. That’s it! During Halloween my sons we waited all night for trick o treaters, only 2 kids show up the whole night. I’m telling u guys its true. It is so rare these days to see young kids especially in my neighborhood. By the way they are closing the high school three blocks from my home, not enough students.

[@angelanorton5975]

Heres a thought, why not have an actual woman on here and ask them why they don't want or don't feel able to have kids in today's world instead of middle aged white men 🤷🏼

[@AdelTheForsaken]

don't wanna hear the truth.

[@jasonburden7999]

Stephen has travelled the world, made a documentary and done research. It's more meaningful for him to discuss his findings than the anecdotal opinion of one woman to share why she personally doesn't want children. Otherwise the interview would become about her feelings and her own situation regarding childbirth, rather than society et large. His birth gap documentary is eye opening and he interviews many women across the world and they share their thoughts on why they didn't have children.

[@annaclarke7643]

My thinking exactly. Men twitter on about having babies but they don’t talk and don’t know about the realities. The second speaker talks about visiting numerous countries. How would he do this if he has children? Leave them to the mother? Oh yeah! Women have been there before.

[@vklnew9824]

Poorly aged white ♀️

[@vklnew9824]

​@@AdelTheForsakenquiet shoplifter

[@JanUl-ne5lg]

It is not a bug, it is a desired, deliberate feature of the system - depopulation, as set out in the infamous Georgia Stones.

[@jellosquishier]

Out of all the dystopian futures, i never thought I'd be living in the "Children of Men" one.

[@maam-yj8ph]

Zombie Apocalypse will follow in short order.

[@syleshwhycantileavethisbla802]

I don't need kids, I have disposable income and a cat.

[@seyij8146]

This

[@SirHargreeves]

Pathetic.

[@beaulieuc8910]

@@SirHargreeves not at all

[@keithparker1346]

​@@beaulieuc8910it's certainly biologically weird to not want kids

[@RishTheMan]

@@SirHargreeves The only one pathetic here is you.

[@IBPaintsppp-wt5ou]

At 27 I may or may not have a kid. The problem is if I math out a kid where I live the expenses are higher than our current savings. It would be going from saving 20% of our income to saving -5% of our income. We track every expense and budget well so any big cuts would significantly reduce our quality of life. It's a hard time to have a kid, and the US makes it harder. I hear older people say "well people with much less money than you have kids" and it's like- Sure, but are they struggling every day? Are they happy?

[@wz8881]

This woman is obsessed with “hard” right.

[@thethinkingcatakaneonormie3527]

The uk government has cut services to the bone if you want larger birth rates you need a 30 hour week wages above inflation and a reliable cheap form of housing and cutting VAT on alcohol and communal things like bars clubs and the building of community centres. Really I'd love a wife and children but I work sometimes up to 70 hours just to make ends meet, I don't have the time or budget to have a wife and home. Really the majority of these problems can be directly linked to Trickle down economics brought in in the 1980's also Health hystria and a media wagging fingers at people going out to clubs and bars and the Austerity to cut all the social meet ups were people can fall in love and have children.

[@DaveMasters1121]

Lol this is making me lol. When you make renting and house prices crazy then what do you expect? Pre COVID I spent 4 hours a day 5 days a week commuting from 2011 to 2020. Perhaps if London was more affordable I wouldn't have had to do that... Also how do you have kids and commute 4 hours a day when you are female

[@canisdibellum790]

I have to agree with Matthew McConaughey's character from True Detective about this topic. The human race is done stop having babies we all walk hand in hand into Oblivion

[@OzSaudarna]

Lol by ‘the world’ they mean, Europe and the West? 😂😂😂

[@durin3415]

No, they mean the world. Japan and China and India and ...

[@xjmmjbnqfstjdijoj2044]

No, the world means the world. Fertility rates are below replacement in many non-western countries as well..and the demographic trends are pretty bleak even for developing countries which will have even a harder time coping with an increasingly old and inactive population

[@OzSaudarna]

@@xjmmjbnqfstjdijoj2044lol. Calm yourself down. Don’t come on here tryna lecture people you don’t know… if you check the stats, you’ll find the opposite is true in Africa. FOH with your arrogant attitude… KMT 🙄

[@OzSaudarna]

@@durin3415 and..? You don’t have to hide your prejudice online. I can’t see your face you know, don’t be scared 😂

[@nomadpurple6154]

The world reached 'peak child' a few years back. Your view is outdated.

[@wisemanwalkingdowntheroad4275]

I see a world with only a billion people as a paradise.

[@xjmmjbnqfstjdijoj2044]

The problem is the age structure... it's going to be a lot bleaker than what you think

[@wisemanwalkingdowntheroad4275]

@@xjmmjbnqfstjdijoj2044 What want to do is get out of the social security Ponzi scheme and have everyone self finance their retirement. We have a few hundred billionaires holding a vast majority of the world's wealth. Get the money from there.

[@hilltribelife3843]

If we tax adequately the super rich to help support families this will help build a healthier happier society for everyone.

[@SkeletonDrums1]

That message seems to fall on deaf ears in government, probably due to most politicians bank balances' being a prime target.

[@hilltribelife3843]

@@SkeletonDrums1 Not all politicians come into politics being greedy but the abundance of opportunities for corruption are too tempting especially in a broken society where everyone is looking after number 1. A simple start would be banning political party donors and second jobs for MPs.

[@SirHargreeves]

Delusional.

[@kashif7811]

suddenly rich people have started caring

[@Swift_2028]

A.I. will swallow all our jobs anyway 😂

[@zoranblackie5921]

AI isn't gonna care for me when I'm too old/frail to do so...

[@milesblack1830]

@@zoranblackie5921 no but if it takes all the other jobs then, in theory, the smaller number of young workers left can do the small number of jobs that AI can't do. Or AI just takes over and treats us like we treat other animals, I suppose

[@zoranblackie5921]

Indeed, yet we are still desperate for staff in the care sector... the irony of the elderly voting Brexit/ Tory and then having no available staff to care for them at minimum/ living wage is not lost on me...

[@milesblack1830]

@@zoranblackie5921 agreed re Brexit irony. But if AI continues taking other white-collar jobs, then surely young people (like myself) will all flock to the sectors where there are currently shortages, and then there won't be shortages...

[@Jonnyicey]

​@@zoranblackie5921 no but the AI will be powering the terminator style robots they are currently making... They will take care of you