Is this the Best Bikepacking Drivetrain??

[@bonus5512]

Hi john. We missed you and Mira a lot. Welcome back. I hope to see more of your new adventures. Have a nice day. Greetings from Italy.

[@OmniTierra]

More to come! It’s a challenge to make these videos from the trail. If it wasn’t for our awesome Patreon supporters there would only be a few Instagram posts.

[@michaelbroyer3918]

Nice video. Must say I have missed your touring videos the last few months. Keep riding and making videos please and thank you!

[@locodawgs-8500]

Mira‼️‼️🙌🏾🙌🏾🚲❤

[@jimmar9847]

I have the priority 600ADX and can relate to not taking the time I did before on my other mountain bikes checking components. After watching your video I found several loose spokes thanks

[@sammycda]

Great information. Thanks!

[@felipericketts]

Love the Pinion Gates combo! Hope all is well with you and Mira 🙂

[@Ghost-w9m]

Hola Juan! Saludos y cuida mucho a la princesa Mira!!!saludos de Phoenix Arizona

[@wanderbybike]

Very informative video, thanks John!

[@OmniTierra]

You are very welcome. Wander, let me know if there are other specific videos like this that you would like to see.

[@jonmeek3879]

Really enjoyed this interview with the experts and the technical information. I have a 600HXT and will use this information going forward-Thank You

[@OmniTierra]

Glad it was helpful Jon. Both Will and Ryan were very generous with their time. Yay @prioritybicyclesnyc 🤘

[@rocbola]

Glad to see you back! In the time since you last video, i went to RAGBRAI and met several of Ryan Van Duzer's riding friends that have been in his videos. Made me think of you. I know making videos is a pain in the butt but we appreciate it when you put out content! Thanks.

[@OmniTierra]

Yes, they are😜. Every video I make, I wonder why I do it. It’s not just the time but it’s the cost of getting a place with decent Wi-Fi while I’m traveling. If it wasn’t for our Patreon supporters, these videos wouldn’t happen. Don’t mean to be negative just being real. Happy to hear that you enjoy some of our videos.

[@cdg-hzg]

Ha! It was interesting at 11:46 to hear Will's description about tooth failure on the Gates belt. I was a bit over 22k km on my first belt with quite a large part of that in fully loaded touring. I had a spare belt with me, but no spare sprockets when I stopped at some point where there was a water hose to clean off the belt. It was then that I noticed that about 90% of the teeth were just hanging on by a thread! None fell off, and they always laid flat if I wasn't somehow rubbing against them (like in cleaning). I also noticed that my sprockets (front and back) were quite worn. I hadn't noticed any performance problems with the drive. As I was in the middle of nowhere in SW Sweden I still changed the belt. Only about 2k km later did I change the sprockets and put on a new belt. The belt with 2k km on the old sprockets is now my spare. -- Never, ever have I had any drivetrain failures since I switched from my old chain / derailleur setup to my Rohloff / Gates drivetrain. I'll never go back to chain drive. -- This was quite an interesting video. Thanks.

[@OmniTierra]

Happy to hear that you got some value out of this video. It’s not our usual 🤔

[@sagehiker]

I have watched your videos and marveled at your extreme touring mechanical abilities and how adaptable you are to change for the best long term solutions. Like your switch to enclosed gear and drive belts. My style of dirt road touring is less mechanically intense, much less days and fewer miles, and without a pup load, so no Gates in my future. I do have winter snow/ice bike with an Alfine internal drive hub that works for me where a derailleur is more failure prone.

[@OmniTierra]

Cool, thanks! However you get out is awesome. Self-powered travel is something special.

[@Happy_Biker]

12:40 I've heard of this, the improper handing of the belt when maintaining or installing a new belt, from Ryan Van Duzer's video with Priority. All the best to Mira and you!

[@OmniTierra]

It’s not surprising since many people have never seen this kind of drivetrain before. They are curious and that sometimes means that they want to move the belt to the extremes.

[@pack_yak]

Very neat hearing from the engineers of the gates carbon drive!

[@PrincessPea1]

Awesome content! TY

[@OmniTierra]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@elcajonboy]

As John said it is real easy to forget about your drive chain when you don't hear it and it works so smoothly for long periods. I have owned 8 different Gates belt driven bikes along with countless traditional chain setups. There is no doubt in my mind that using a belt is just better. I have taken high geared CDX based Gates belt drive systems up inclines that bent the sprocket teeth on my chained bike. When on a bikepacking trip you should bring a spare belt. It is light and packs away easy.

[@OmniTierra]

Great to hear you’re having a good experience with the belts. Maybe you didn’t watch the entire video from the copper canyons series. In the video I clearly install the spare belt that I was carrying. I rarely ride in the city, so I need to be pretty self-reliant with spare parts and tools.

[@Happy_Biker]

As you're traveling, do you find spare belts easy to get ahold of on the road, or perhaps order them ahead of time and shipped to wherever you're going to be next? 🤔

[@elcajonboy]

@@OmniTierra Sorry, my comment was meant for other people watching the video. I know you keep tools and spare parts from watching you and also Ryan trek around together.

[@printerror]

Thanks for sharing this John. Excellent point in that routine maintenance gets otherwise forgotten. The only thing I ever do to my 600x is hose it off!

[@OmniTierra]

Very true!

[@HD46409]

Good stuff. For the Gates guys it would be nice if Gates could come up with a splittable belt. Veer has one and some bike geometry doesn't allow for a non-splittable belt (e.g. DW link). Also, if you can't swap out a belt without taking the bike apart, that's a massive limitation. Interesting to hear about the real world efficiency differences. Thanks.

[@OmniTierra]

Thank for your comment. Will and Ryan address that in the video.

[@davidking3699]

Of all the benefits of the belt drive and internal hubs mentioned.... for me, just cruising down a sealed path to the beach to get a coffee and a few pictures to post on Strava, it really is a set and forget system that I look at about as often as I change a tyre (which with Schwalbe Marathons, could be every two years!). For a serious rider travelling the rugged conditions like you do, the biggest benefits have to be the lack of comprehensive daily maintenance required. Imagine (at least) once a day, having to properly clean and lubricate a chain. Think of the time at the end of each day when all you want to do is pitch a tent and cook some food, and get some sleep. imagine the various lotions, chemicals, lubes, degreasers, tools, rags etc that would need to be carried, replaced and sourced in remote areas to keep up that required maintenance schedule, or chains would last just a few weeks if they started grinding on themselves and the sprockets - as well as becoming expensive, where in rural Mexico are you going to find chains, derailleurs, lube, degreaser etc. ? With Gates Belt Drives, and sticks, life is easy for both of you...

[@harrygrimley4352]

Very interesting 🤔

[@OmniTierra]

Glad you think so!

[@register1430]

First notification in a while from YT , I think the algorithm needs more food from you. I thought the vid might be what happened AFTER the break. Hopefully that wasn't the spare packing it in. I like the dogpacking site.

[@OmniTierra]

Happy to hear that you’re getting some value from Dogpacking.com. We post regular behind-the-scenes video and updates on Patreon

[@MrGoodaches]

I have not yet tried belt drives. However, all of the grime accumulation issues of chain drives disappear with immersion waxing. I’ve been immersion waxing chains on all of mine and wife’s bikes for a decade including our 2018 GDMBR trip.

[@OmniTierra]

That’s very interesting. Thanks for sharing your experience. However, that’s just not possible well doing a world tour through countries that have developing economies. That’s one of the reasons why I choose the equipment that I use. Hope You guys had a great time on the GDMBR 🤗💕🐕

[@Adventures4vida]

Love your bike, and belt drives, but as a full time bicycle mechanic, I find I like to keep my touring bikes simple, and easy to fix on the side of the road.

[@OmniTierra]

Fair enough! The nice thing is, I rarely need to fix this bike.

[@Adventures4vida]

@@switchbackboy yea but if you have a failure in the middle of nowhere good luck. Plus the parts and service aren't as easy to get.

[@26realmc]

Once you go pinion and belt drive you will never go back. Trust me 😊

[@drill_fiend1097]

Probably a good idea bringing Veer splitbelt, just like bringing tubes in case tubeless sealant fails.

[@OmniTierra]

Or I could just carry a spare Gates belt🤔. Thanks for the comment. I will check out veer online.

[@drill_fiend1097]

@@OmniTierra with veer you can just slap on belt without opening seatstay split afaik.

[@elcajonboy]

the veer split belts with pins are not compatible with the gates center track sprockets. The pins on the veer go all the way through the teeth. They are also limited in minimum sprocket size.

[@tdgdbs1]

A chain on a internal gear system will last just as long or longer, I ride year round in Japan. My mamachari Alfine8 with 60K is still on the original drive train. It is city bike and spent all of its time outdoors.

[@OmniTierra]

That’s interesting. I’m glad you’re having good result. We just rode through Central America and I imagine the climate is similar to many parts of Japan. Any metal that was not stainless steel or titanium has some rust on it. Don’t forget, I’m also carrying a 40 pound dog and riding mainly off paved roads and trails. So for us, the Pinion and gates system is the win.

[@kizzmitten1]

Excellent video, just missing some fur and pointy ears! Looking great John!

[@OmniTierra]

Next time!

[@buzzman4860]

For your riding you are definitely riding the best possible system

[@OmniTierra]

I think so too!

[@crackman42]

I rode the TD this year was a victim of outofsight outofmind! My failure was accompanied by the aluminum sprocket . The teeth were so worn my spare belt just wouldn’t engage. Great interview, thanks

[@sapinva]

I get easily 5000 miles on my fixed gear bikes, Wipperman 1/8" lubed with pneumatic tool oil. But I'm lucky to get 500 on my mtb's, KMC X11 with dry lube. It's mostly the dirt (and dry lube), but the extreme flex with short chain stays and a 11x48 cassette doesn't help.

[@OmniTierra]

Clear you have seen how conditions make a big difference to the system. Thanks for the comment

[@StarEssences]

lol, like Nevada dust; There is a fine film of dust on cars (as an example) just enough for passengers to leave a scuff mark on the body of one's car if and when they drag items on the surface of it. :( The common task between chains and belts is then this; Keep them clean and rider will have better bike transmission ride results.

[@peterbedford2610]

They should give you free belts for this

[@CraigErskine19D]

Hi John, who did you have build your rig?

[@OmniTierra]

You don’t want to use them. Worst experience I have ever had in the cycling industry in several decades. The first frame came dented and very misaligned. Second is also misaligned and needed a frame build in Colorado to correct it before it could be ridden. That’s required an international flight. This is why I am working on a new version.

[@P.Ttrying]

Pink motel soap has to be up there. Has to be pink😅

[@OmniTierra]

There is lots of that to be found in Mexico 🇲🇽 but sadly it’s not so common here in Colombia 🇨🇴

[@frankducett9]

Trying to find a Gates belt in rural areas may be difficult, if not impossible. The Gates belts are limited to internal gearboxes, expensive, heavy and not efficient.

[@OmniTierra]

Thanks for your comment Frank. You can’t purchase anything bike components rural areas of Latin America. The @carbondrive and @pinion.eu systems are pretty high end so the are spendy 💰. Have you checked the price on a new SRAM group set? 💰💰. This is why there is choice in the market. This video shares my opinions

[@denisgeorge9287]

I was an auto repair shop owner for 40 years and had a problem with gates belts. The early morning squeals and early failures were a real pain in my life. Unfortunately Gates has a near monopoly in the automotive field. Dayco, Goodyear and Bando were much better. Gates having a near monopoly knows they sell more belts if they have a limited life. There is no reason a bicycle belt shouldn't last almost the life of the bike.

[@OmniTierra]

Interesting

[@pppjourneyonabike5992]

You have Pinion P-18 or C-12? Is that the Comotion Divide frame?

[@joeniepro]

It's blue, so P-18...C-12 is only available in black/grey :)

[@OmniTierra]

That’s not quite right

[@johnvanderhulst4778]

To bad Gates has left their best system in the corner, their classic CDC belt drive system, i still use it and it's way better than the CDX version.

[@OmniTierra]

Interesting. The CDS system is the only one I’ve used from gates

[@stevemullin1195]

What bike are you riding John?

[@OmniTierra]

It was such a bad experience I don’t ever recommend the company 👎

[@horaciodedona3912]

Where are you guys now?

[@OmniTierra]

Colombia 🇨🇴

[@TheJoePavlik]

Will Scheel!

[@OmniTierra]

Ya Will and Ryan were very generous with their time 🤘

[@TheJoePavlik]

@@OmniTierra It's cool to see Will on your channel. I met him in 2015 at the start of the TD.

[@ian_pedalz]

Hey John are you still working on a new dog packer frame?

[@OmniTierra]

We are definitely still working on it. It’s a team effort to create this new machine. We will keep you posted.

[@ian_pedalz]

@@OmniTierra awesome! Eager to see it!

[@spiral99able]

I use wax on the belt

[@OmniTierra]

The nice thing is soap is very close to being free🤔

[@register1430]

like ski wax? bees?

[@cypriano8763]

shimano 8,9,10 speed. up to 50t, ubiquitous, cheap, no power loss. tried and true

[@OmniTierra]

I don’t think you understand how drivetrain systems work if you think there is no power loss. The other thing is that those systems do shift as well as a more modern system. It’s great if they did, but they just don’t. But it’s awesome that you have found a system that works for you and in the place that you ride.

[@cypriano8763]

@@OmniTierra my mountain runs on shimano 10 speed xt, 50t, works flawlesly. Has done for years. Actually switched from.sram eagle to ahimano 10 speed just because the replacement of parts was way more affordable. Those prioroty bikes with the pinion drive are just heavy imo.

[@Bedievis]

The problem is that you have to change the sprockets as well when the belt is worn. That is about 300 euro. Its just too expensive system. It will always be a niche and will never be very popular. Im an all year rider and considering going back to chain. Chainrings and chain will cost me 40 euro total. I would be very happy if the belt would last 30 000 km, im at 9000 with cdx system and its getting to an end, maybe 3000 km left. It saves your cleaning time that is the only advantage, but you get all the disatvantages of internal gear box.

[@OmniTierra]

Yeah, that’s interesting that you are numbers come out with a different result. When I ran the numbers using it higher end system with derailer and chain, the cost quickly out strips the Pinion and gates set up. There’s definitely lots of options out there for us to use.

[@elcajonboy]

It is not true you have to change the sprockets when a belt is worn or about to fail. I had over 8,000 miles(12k kilometers) on a single speed Gates CDX system with a 20 tooth rear sprocket and a 46 tooth front sprocket before I changed the belt after one year. I only replaced the belt because it was one year with 8k miles and I would have done the same with a chain. The sprockets were fine. The original sprockets had 12,000 miles on them but then that bike got stolen. I live in San Diego California and it has some pretty gnarly hills. I rode that bike in the mountains(bike packing), beach boardwalks with sand, and double century rides a lot. The CDX system is not perfect but they are way better than a chain system and when paired with Pinion its no contest. I also own a priority 600x that has over 6k miles on the original belt and sprockets.

[@Bedievis]

@@elcajonboy Gates recomends to change them all at once, because if you put new belt on worn sprockets, the belt will wear out more quickly. They are designed to wear both the belt and the sprockets at the same time. Yeah, Californian weather is very nice. Maybe i should have cleaned it more, then would not got that premature wear on belt and sprockets. But it was advertised as cleaning maintainance free system and i bought it because of that.

[@dandydon6049]

21 minute commercial. 👎🏻

[@OmniTierra]

Hey Dandy thanks for taking the time to make a comment since it helps the channel. I’m gonna use that comment to try and get a paid sponsorship from Gates🤔🤗