Is this the next gaming mouse breakthrough? - Era 1 Gaming Mouse

[@christiangabriel6215]

David is going to need a wardrobe soon if he keeps getting jacked

[@fungalcoffee]

He still wears it well

[@herooftime9921]

Called small shirts....

[@Wimmle]

He's just getting ready to fight all the movie nerds 🤣

[@NeoArch]

@@herooftime9921 the amount of envy that i smell in this comment is over 9000

[@Technet0]

hes buff as hell

[@POLARTTYRTM]

I still remember how many people complained when Logitech did that sensor thing in their old G500, so moving the sensor to that place is not really an innovation, and a lot of people disliked it back in the day and still complain. Edit: I still have that mouse 12 years later, buttons are not the best but everything else is cool, I just found the weights all still in the metal box brand new without a single scratch. The G500 was insanely popular back in the day for KZ in cs 1.6, I used it a few months ago to play it and can confirm the mouse still holds up to this day as a solid choice since it is such a keyboard/mouse-demanding game, both from equipment and human side. Logitech mice had been the top tier mice to play this game mode for all its known existence to this very day, and since the MX518 made a comeback, it's popular again as well.

[@faulikonto]

i was thinking the same

[@SuperAlucius]

It is how it is on the Magic Mouse too. Absolutely hate it. Keep the sensor in the middle.

[@kh_trendy]

TIL, the reason I loved that mouse was the sensor location. No gaming mouse ever felt the same after mine broke. Now I know why. Thank you!

[@newearth9027]

No the game isn't hardware depent literally just get better

[@Nilboggen]

I have one of those too! I don't like it. I found myself sliding my thumb further up the side of the mouse for more control. I think for me at least how I hold I mouse I want the sensor across from where my thumb rests on the side of the mouse. Edit: After I typed this I thought maybe I would like small form factor mice better if they did this since your thumb is further forward in that case...

[@rollingtroll]

Nothing about this video makes me go 'that sounds good'. Let's see if this design takes off. But I Feel like it's just a vaporware kickstarter. Good to see you again david! Props on the shirt. Animals or Meddle next? :D

[@emraef]

yeah, this video kinda sucks lol

[@xaytana]

Campaign owner's account is eight years old, zero backed campaigns, two campaigns, both of which are for this mouse and the original was double the goal amount. Given how accessible low-volume manufacturing has become and how this uses off-the-shelf parts, it's easy to make a one-off to peddle to KZbinrs. Not to mention how generic the product looks. Oh, and campaign owner also has a super generic website for the mouse that also has testimonials, with five-star ratings, for an unreleased project, with the typical obligatory CGI video for the product. Not to mention all the marketing bullshit involved with this, Fitt's law is only applicable if the mouse has any use and any way to read rotational movement, which this and the vast majority of mice do not, as mice are x-y devices and any arcing movement is due do a person pivoting a joint, which is nonoptimal movement, instead of linearly moving their hand. Oh and let's not forget the G500 from Logitech already did this exact thing, and this mouse has a 'patent pending' status on sensor placement, which is entirely bogus. This has scam written all over it. I'm surprised this video even got greenlit at all, the smallest amount of researching just the project itself, and some logical thought, would've shown that this is scammy as hell; though that kind of mentality is pretty on-par with this channel specifically, no research goes into anything and bad information is common. This also comes after a history of crowdfunded projects that never came to market on LMG, Linus has had several content pieces covering the topic, yet this somehow slips through? Plus this is a pseudo-ad at the very least, as it's a campaign still within the funding period with only a prototype to show it off; and this comes after multiple sponsor issues and Linus talking about taking more responsibility with sponsors, partners, and ads. What happens if a bunch of LMG's following funds this and it does turn out to be a scam, I wouldn't be surprised if LMG takes zero responsibility for peddling a scam; other than maybe a 'sorry bro' shirt with a sheep logo, to show 'remorse,' to go along with their 'trust me bro warranty' shirt, given certain mentalities in the company lately. LMG needs to do better, but given recent events I'm afraid they'd struggle to do better; yet another potential debacle to throw onto the pile that deserves backlash. Everything here is a shitshow waiting to happen. Also why do so many of you have issues reading anything longer than a sentence? I've noticed this across multiple comments on multiple channels of different viewer bases. It's sad how discussion is being limited to a sentence at a time because a lot of you don't have the attention span for anything longer, genuinely makes you look beyond illiterate and uneducated.

[@LunaTulpa]

@@xaytana I'm not typically someone to care about asthetics, but it looks absolutely ugly and like there was zero work put into the shape or look of it, and would think it's some garbage that comes with a cheap OEM also mice have been around awhile, and something so simple as "moving the optical location" is one of those things that is so simple of a change like this would be done so long ago if it were a good idea

[@alyssa2242]

@@LunaTulpa It' genuinly looks like a 1996 Microsoft Intellimouse.

[@MarnoWind]

@@xaytana I impressed myself actually reading all this. Maybe if the reaction to this video ends up being divided or negative it'll be brought up in WAN. Who knows 🤷‍♂️

[@gail_blue]

I guess if you had two sensors on a mouse inline with one another, you could use math to slide the control point virtually forward and back out to infinity.

[@paranoid1987]

I had an old Logitech mouse that had the sensor up top like that so it has been done before. When I switched to a mouse where the sensor was in the middle I just moved my fingers back so it was the same thing. I use a fingertip grip.

[@kearneytaaffe7059]

yeah, I was thinking the same thing - my old Logitech had the sensor at the front. in fact, I even had a traveling mouse made by targus that had the sensor at the front

[@VikingbeeF]

The G700/G700S. I'm using one right now

[@razerow3391]

Shhhhh. That is using your brain. LTT don't use their brains... Or if they do it's really damaged...

[@kiloneie]

Like you said, there were mice with the sensor up top, and i am pretty sure it was moved to the center for better precision, so the idea of this mouse is total crap. I read on comments on quake pro players being far more successful with smaller mice with the sensor in the center in the earlier days, and from my experience(not sensor up top), smaller mice give better precision.

[@emraef]

it's a joke how 'lightweight' cabled mice keep coming out that end up being just 3 grams lighter than a g pro x superlight, lol.

[@homi1001]

Pulsar X2 wireless Mini and Medium are both lighter than this, Lamzu Atlantis is lighter, G-Wolves HSK+, even the Viper V 2 Pro is lighter. All Finalsmouse mice made from metal are much lighter. There are a lot more.

[@st0nedpenguin]

Why is that a joke? They're superlight mice.

[@montzz]

@@st0nedpenguin I think his point is, that the G Pro Superlight has a battery and the wireless connections in it that makes it a lot heavier, so a standard usb mouse should be able to go way lower than 60g because they don’t need a battery.

[@oppi263]

@@homi1001 is pulsar x2 wireless for right handed?

[@st0nedpenguin]

@@montzz But that doesn't change the fact that they're still lightweight mice.

[@cycl10ps]

Truthfully, I think this actually makes LESS sense to me than having the sensor even lower! I understand that intuitively it makes sense, but I think your brain adjusts how it feels on screen when you move your hand and the benefit of having the sense lower is the granularity you can get with higher sens with just wrist movement. I feel like you can have a higher overall sensitivity so your arm aim can make big flicks and turns - which is great in games like Apex, warzone, overwatch which are fast paced shooters with lot of flanking, but you can still have the granular aim with just wrist movements. That is a big struggle for me since I want to be able to be able to track small targets at range but also be able to do 180s easily with the same sensitivity. This, I think, gives you a bigger range of motion but at the cost of granularity. But I'd honestly love to try both and see what kind of difference it makes, maybe in the future we'll see some mice with an adjustable sensor position, you can move it under your left click maybe, or have it lower/higher.

[@thenonexistinghero]

Humans aren't their brain. Fact of the matter is that a brain cannot adjust beyond the physical limits of the body. Placing the sensor at the top allows for movement in a way that is simply impossible with the sensor in the middle. Now how this would affect gaming, I cannot say. But your mouse movements can be a lot closer to how you would move when writing with a pen. Imagine drawing with the pen in the middle of your hand compared to the tip of your fingers. Obviously, it would be a lot harder with the latter.

[@Neoxon619]

I wish the cable was detachable so it can be easily replaced if the original one fails, but this mouse is doing some cool things with the sensor & going back to a more simple design. And hey, it’s only a prototype. Things can change between now & the final product.

[@fuzzmanmatt]

Detachable like King Missile?

[@leefhead1]

How often do you go through mouse cables? - honest question. I started using computers in the 286/386/486 era (had a dual cpu 386 PC as my first home pc) and i cant recall a mouse wire ever failing for any reason.

[@jameslamb7197]

I've all the wired mice I have owned, I have never had the cable fail at the mouse end. If it was made detachable it would have a lot more build built into it in order to account for a plug, and stiffen the cable not letting the mouse drag as freely (which is what I find when charging a wireless mouse and using it at the same time).

[@LLyric_]

No one just runs thru mouse cables bro

[@seancoyote]

@@fuzzmanmatt hehe I got that, but man, we both got dated.

[@allanjaymonteclaro]

David reminds me of a science teacher who's mostly quiet but gets really enthusiastic when teaching and has the coolest experiments during class.

[@Cahnisama]

except the teacher is fucking boring and tries to overcompensate and it comes off as cringe.

[@Blearky]

This one needs a "blind test" like you all did with the keyboards some time ago. I believe that could be quite interesting.

[@challengegravity]

True, though with some getting used to you could get more out of this mouse. For example, when I switched to vertical mice, I had a bit of trouble at first (especially since clicking a vertical mouse can push it sideways depending on your technique ) but after a week or so I found it much easier to use for work and even for gaming. Your hand is already in a trigger happy position anyhow so it's more immersive too.

[@silentdarkdead]

It's cool but with muscle memory, DPI, and sensitivity settings with mice I don't see how this is much of an advantage.

[@Arrkail]

yeah, like what's the point really? you can adjust what you mentioned.

[@jubuttib]

@@Arrkail Someone who used an old mouse with a sensor at the front for CAD, and another person who used it for drawing, had some fairly good reasons. What it does most is it changes how the mouse responds to finger movements vs. wrist and arm movements, when compared to mice with the sensor in the center. They specifically said that they could do broad strokes the same way with big wrist and arm movements as with any other mouse, but the sensor location made small finger movements feel more natural, since the sensor was under the fingertips, rather than the base of the fingers, or even under the palm. Doesn't really enter into gaming for most people, but there are some legit differences this kind of design can cause, that wouldn't really be replicable with DPI and sensitivity tweaking.

[@yoyodynepropulsion.systems]

So jealous of David's hair. I wish I could look good with hair like that.

[@JordanIdk]

> patent-pending forward positioned sensor You can really patent moving the sensor two inches forward? I can't be arsed anymore.

[@VitalVampyr]

You can apply to patent anything, that doesn't mean the patent will be granted.

[@Tealc2323]

This is the last video I'll watch with this guy.

[@sebastianvangen]

cant handle his crinch behavior.

[@JTshoot]

For graphic design putting the sensor at the top makes sense, that's why Apple's magic mouse has it at the top...but this is just atrocious, I could carve a more ergonomic looking mouse from a block of wood. 3D printing offers endless innovative possibilities, this is definitely not one of them.

[@AO-bl7cc]

I remember mice made for wacom tablets had a similar idea. It makes sense because if you use drawing or cad software, you want to have something that mimics the feel of using your fingertips when drawing. So yeah you'll get very precise and intricate movements with a sensor closer to the fingertips than you would if its in the center of the palm. I don't think the idea is new however, and I don't necessarily see how its useful in FPS games where you're more likely to make large movements of the mouse than you would making very tiny mm movements. Just guessing, maybe RTS and MMORPG gamers, or other games where a UI is used on screen might feel less fatigue.

[@jtjames79]

For people with small desks.

[@CemerianVids]

In theory it’s a good idea but in practise it just doesn’t really work unless maybe you’re a heavy finger aimer with little wrist and arm movement which is extremely rare. The brain is smart enough to adapt to sensor positions. Makes more sense to move the sensor closer to the wrist which is the pivot. In fact for players that use the arm to move around and wrist to make small-medium aim adjustments, you will probably feel more precise with a sensor further back on the mouse instead of the near the front like this mouse because you will essentially have a considerably lower sensitivity for wrist movements increasing accuracy/precision whilst not sacrificing your movement sensitivity for your arm as the reduction in sensitivity will be far less noticeable due to the much longer length of the arm connecting the hand from the elbow (pivot). If anyone doesn’t understand, imagine a circle, remember you move the mouse in an arc shape whether you’re aiming with your wrist or arm. The further down the sensor, the radius is reduced so the arc will be smaller essentially reducing horizontal sensitivity. It ends up being a noticeable reduction because the distance from the sensor to the wrist (pivot) is low but barely noticeable for the arm. Cooler master, steelseries and a few others have been doing this for a while and it’s a far better idea than pushing the sensor up imo which is basically just increasing wrist aiming horizontal sensitivity by like 20% whilst keeping movement the same. Sacrificing aiming precision whilst not benefiting movement makes little sense to me.

[@Tree-House69]

I'm a visual artist and always loved the G500 with a similar layout, so maybe that's partially where it comes from for me, as a gaming mouse it remains one of my favorites.

[@AO-bl7cc]

@@CemerianVids A lot of modern mice these days are designed to over come a lot of the pitfalls early mice would have had with having a sensor in the middle. Also Windows and Mac have put in their own software enhancements to make mice more precise. The idea for this kickstarter seems to be a solution to a problem that was solved years ago.

[@8020Alive]

Summary: "Its a prototype." "I am not used to it." "We learned nothing." Thank you for watching our video.

[@junjiexie]

Thanks

[@gamertherapyconsoleyoursel5804]

I love David's whole vibe here

[@maxholm5987]

I feel it's great to talk about every problem on prototype mice so that the designers fix it and it wouldn't translate to the finished product. It could ruin their sales.

[@AdistiantoYuwono]

Microsoft Arc and Wedge mouse, due to its design, also have the sensor near the fingertips area. I must say that in most cases outside of gaming, sensor location doesn’t make much difference. For me it’s more about the shape and ergonomics, and to some way lesser extent, the weight.

[@fozzy7199]

it might not hurt to try some nail polish remover before the top down segments

[@elephantguy]

I have no problem with the painted nails or unpainted nails. I do have reaction to the in-between for the close ups. To me it is the same thing as having a big dirt smudge on a face and reviewing selfie cams.

[@Whiteshade]

yes looks disgusting I had to close the video and not watch it

[@meatbyproducts]

Hey, there is a reason why hand models don't have nail polish... it is distracting as hell. presentation is fine but the janky nail polish is just distracting when you are handling the product.

[@Pest789]

Everyone who buys this thing is going to start using it and then dial back their sensitivity to match what they got with their old mouse. Moving the sensor farther forward just increases the sensitivity. Why not just do that in your settings?

[@SyntheticFuture]

I guess you could argue that doing doing it in the hardware (having the sensor move more with less movement of the wrist) gives the sensor more data to process compared to increasing the sensitivity of the sensor? I have no idea if this is actually a significant change... But that's pretty much the only thing I could think of 😅

[@Thanatos2996]

@@SyntheticFuture the sensors and processors we have now are more than beefy enough to provide too high a DPI for most people. Besides, if you're mostly translating the mouse sideways instead of rotating it (which I suspect most people do), the difference is minimal.

[@Pest789]

@@SyntheticFuture Most gaming mice already have much higher polling rates than desktop mice to do that.

[@andylewis2752]

I think this is actually so cool! The sensor being further forward makes a lot of sense since I’m only really holding the mouse with my fingertips. Backed!

[@closinbtw]

As a mouse collector/enthusiast, this ain’t it. The idea of a forward placed sensor is to help make wrist movements feel linear in game. This extreme version on this mouse seems very odd. Yeah it’s “new” but in my opinion it’s a gimmick rather than an innovation. Yeah you could argue “Just get used to the mouse” but why switch to an extreme sensor placement, when you can switch to a slightly forward placed sensor mice like the Orochi V2. Granted, how you grip your mouse can also be the sensor “placement”. I’m a fingertip user, and I hold my mice where the sensor is near my fingertips to help aid my crosshair movement. I can ramble for a while, but it comes down to preference.

[@yeahthatsright33]

I palm grip and wrist aim more than arm sim so for me this is my type of mouse and I don’t have big hands

[@yummyhershey5902]

The extreme sensor placement makes it more sensitive to wrist and finger movements. That's great and all, but why not just raise your sense? That's what I don't understand about this mouse.

[@LunaTulpa]

and the fact they're treating it as a REVOLUTIONARY NEW IDEA THAT'S GONNA CHANGE GAMING, like man, it's just moving the location of something, it's just fluff to sell this garbage

[@celmaki]

Video is great but David looks like he was on an amazing party the night before. I mean the hair style, small eyes nail paint at stage "I don't have time/energy to finish cleaning it up" Magic, Reminds me of a good old times when I was able to function after a night of partying

[@richardbently7236]

David looks like he's been playing with a box fan for the past week.

[@512TheWolf512]

Take a shot every time David says "bit"

[@IgabodDobagi]

I like the idea but the shape of that mouse is horrendous so I hope they make changes to bring it into a more modern gaming mouse shape. I also refuse to use a wired mouse at all though so until they have a wireless one I won't even be trying this one out. I've gone cordless as much as possible and I just will not go back.

[@doqtorisykero7971]

It's outright designed for fingertip and claw grip, so the shape in itself isn't really that bad.

[@wynoglia]

Yoooo that was a sick "all about that bass" pun Have confidence mate! You got this!

[@StayMadNobodycares]

Remember kids... before you break your parents bank.... a pro would still beat you with a ball mouse.

[@Dizzeke]

i have the g303 shroud edition and i love everything about it except its sensor is farther back towards the palm than normal mice so fingertip/wrist aiming is nonexistent at lower sensitivities, its arm or nothing basically. im intrigued by this sensor placement, you could use wrist and arm and fingertip all at any sensitivity theoretically and thats a big thing that not a lot of people yet realize.

[@magecu]

I've had a mouse with a similar position for a few years and could not get accustomed to it. It was my first wireless mice and I thought it was an issue with the communication. I would constantly miss my target, be it FPS , small buttons or drawing. It turned out it was the sensor position. I used a mouse with a central sensor/ball for so long that I just couldn't get accustomed to the new sensor position. I know exactly where the central sensor is and can pivot around it with small flicks, with the forward position the pivoting was misaligned and the mouse would move a lot more than expected. Now I don't buy a mouse if it doesn't have the sensor in the right position. The G502 feels quite nice.

[@javianbrown8627]

I'm curious as to how it feels for someone who gets used to it or has a preference for this kind of thing

[@genethebean7597]

Best packing job lol, certainly for ShortCircuit

[@xaytana]

This video showcases one of my biggest complaints about this channel: Bad information. There's been videos in the past with bad information, and this is mostly due to the lack of research in the unboxing style of vide; one of the most blatant pieces of bad information was in one of Anthony's handheld videos where he, and the editor, claimed the entirely incorrect, and more powerful, ARM chipset was in a device, when in reality the correct chip was far less powerful, but to be fair Qualcomm does have horrendous naming schemes. This video's misinformation is about the sensor placement being innovative, or even new at all, I could understand the mistake if some obscure device or company did it first, but Logitech did it first with the G500. My other big complaint with this channel, which again stems from the whole unboxing style, is how utterly subjective things are. Grip and hand position? Entirely subjective from one point of view. Instead have multiple people with multiple hand sizes and grip styles test it, LMG has the workforce to at least have a range of data for a broader scope of subjective claims. Sensor placement and use of mouse? Again, entirely subjective from one point of view. Except this time, rather than just a larger data set, this would also need an additional data set of how opinions change over time, every new device has a learning curve. For an example of this, let's go back to the trackball debate, learning to use one has a learning curve, how well a trackball works for you is subjective both before and after the learning curve, finger-balls and thumb-balls are a similar debate, ball size and ball position are again a similar debate, button placements and amounts are more of the same, etc., everything here is subjective outside of actual measurable specs. To stem from this complaint, mice are entirely subjective objects because everyone has a personal preference and there's not objective data to be had other than sensor accuracy and things like latency on wireless technologies etc., but to stem from this I also have an issue with logical basis of subjectivity. For example, the claim that moving the mouse sensor up could improve fine movement, when in reality it doesn't; to stem from this, the 'demonstration of how a mouse moves' has a lot of arcing movement, which really isn't accurate for how a mouse moves at all- so much for intuition, huh. I've used a fairly wide range of mouse styles and grip styles, including the aforementioned G500, the difference in actual use is moot, mostly because you want to move a mouse linearly and not in an arcing motion, as mice work on an x-y plane, which makes the whole Fitt's law approach a moot point. Subjectivity also comes with placebo, the only way to properly compare sensor placement in subjective tests is to have blind tests with identical shells; which leads me to another issue I have with LMG and it's audience, everyone seemingly doesn't have the logic to conclude that the subjectivity here is bad, and the people who do have the logic to have good comparison testing in these scenarios rarely get the spotlight, especially on this channel. Offset these kinds of comparisons to either Alex or Labs, have them develop identical models with the only difference being sensor placement, throw in a randomized third as a potential anti-placebo just so nobody tries to figure out the difference on their own, and let them perform blind tests with a range of users with varying preferences in mice; otherwise, keep baseless comparisons and illogical thoughts out of these videos. And yet another complaint: KickStarters. We've seen crowdfunded projects on LMG channels in the past, we've had Linus and other employees talk about how things go to shit in the past, clearly nothing has been learned. Rather than peddle a potential scam, maybe instead let the project finish funding and test a ready to market production prototype, rather than something anyone could easily hack together while they're still waiting for the other roughly 70% of their funding goal, this makes the potential product look more legitimate and it makes LMG look less braindead when it comes to pseudo-sponsored ads; the product was sent to you early in preproduction during a funding campaign, it's an ad, there's absolutely no way to claim otherwise- and the previous comes after numerous sponsor spot debacles when Linus himself has said that the company needs to be responsible in who sponsors them, there's some major inconsistency here. Now let's take some additional facts here. They're using bullshit marketing such as Fitt's law when it has no place in how a mouse works or is operated. The whole 'patent-pending' part when Logitech already did this, though any potential patents there may be abandoned as Logi has a history of this, but I also argue that this really no no standing grounds of being patentable due to how weak it would be; it's like trying to patent the common placement of a sensor; it'd be a weak patent because there's nothing innovative about it, plus it's an implementation anyone can come up with without much thought, it's not something that's like two perpendicularly oriented sensors so that the mouse can actually detect rotation due to kinematics, which would easily be patentable and has been patented assuming that patent hasn't been abandoned. The whole prototype thing, again anyone could throw something like this together, 3D printing is super accessible, injection molding is becoming pretty accessible, as well as the printing-finishing and printing-finishing-molding processes are just as accessible as 3D printing is, etc. in terms of shell making, as well as PCB making is super accessible as well these days, along with common off-the-shelf parts, etc., means anyone could throw this together; this one just happens to have 3D printed shell, but we've seen scams go more in depth than this before, arguments still stand. Then mail it to a few unboxing KZbinrs, and peddle a crowdfunding campaign. This has scam written all over it, at least from the history from crowdfunded scams, I have no opinion on the creator of the project as I just genuinely don't care enough to dive down the rabbit hole of seeing if the person or the team themselves are legitimate or not. Let's also mention how utterly generic this mouse looks, and all the fancy CGI on their own website, which also includes testimonials for a product that isn't even released yet, along with the most generic looking website for 'projects' that end up as scams, pictures of the prototype on the campaign, and the KS account is eight years old with zero backed projects and two backed projects, both projects of which are the Era 1, which failed its first campaign in October of 2021 with a goal of 2x, and the new campaign is supposedly improved but still peddles the same marketing wank. Gut feeling would tell anyone to proceed with caution, anyone familiar with crowdfunding scams can read you the writing that's on the wall; I genuinely want to be wrong and for this to be a potentially successful product, but at the same time I won't be surprised if it's the same old scam with a new coat of paint that we've seen over and over again. To further this, if the person truly believes in their product, they could also just become a boutique that sells a niche product, similar to what Ploopy is doing with their trackball products, because let's be honest this person, team, company, whatever they truly are will never have competing power with even the smaller niche brands of mice, the boutique route is honestly the more sound business path given the environment they're trying to get into, especially when low-scale manufacturing is pretty accessible; which leads me to, again, believe that this is a potential scam, because they clearly don't believe in their product, from bad business ventures to marketing bullshit, it truly does have scam written all over it. And this brings me back to one of my final complaints, LMG and pseudo-ad spots. Even if a handful of employees believe in this product, someone higher up in the company should be able to read between the lines, especially those who have dealt with crowdfunding products that never actually came to market. This video never should've been greenlit to begin with, just on the basis of it being a crowdfunding campaign that's still ongoing and has no real end-goal in sight, especially given that this is the product's second campaign with half the goal as the original, especially given all the other variables, etc.; basic research isn't hard, but no research is pretty on-par for this channel anyways so I can't say I'm surprised. Do better; though judging by the backpack warranty and 'trust me bro warranty' shirt, sometimes I genuinely think LMG struggles do better. If this does turn out to be a scam, which it most likely will be given the variables, what happens when a bunch of LMG fans lose money on a bogus crowdfunding project? We all know LMG won't take a responsible position, because why would they; can't wait for a 'sorry bro' shirt with a sheep logo so the company can show 'remorse' over leading their following into scammy territory, it'd be on-par for what's been going on lately anyways.

[@S7ARBOY]

this guy was also just... unpleasant to watch lol. i guess we all gotta start somewhere

[@jimireynoldsmusic]

This is a good comment

[@Xfade81]

would've probably been a better choice to put this on their forums. unlikely this was read at all.

[@trapvandal]

david is still my favorite face across all linus channels. keep em coming pleaseeeee

[@boltvanderhuge8711]

uh this has been done many many times; I've got at least three old logitech mice with the sensor there...

[@TheScarvig]

i think an important part is where the sensor is located in relation to your primary contact points for gripping. usually those are the thumb, your pinky and your ring finger for finger grip or just your pinky and thumb for claw grip and palming uses thumb and part of your palm near the base of your ring finger. these points define a line or a triangle and the sensor should be close to the center of it for maximum control over the movement of it with minimal influence of rotation of your grip (which will automatically happen around the center of your contact points. ideally you should be able to close your eyes and turn your mouse without your cursor moving. that would mean that your mouse+grip totally ignores rotation and only picks up translation.

[@sHeggz422]

Man. Now I wanna see him stream Apex.

[@piratebdl]

great video! just wanted to note that glorious does sell a model d- wireless, but david said that they do not. just clearing up any confusion there.

[@Chriss120]

from a physics standpoint, having a longer lever makes the sensor move further with the same wrist movement but also decreasing the movement resolution. so .. i am not sure if this is an actual good idea.

[@decomposingbrains]

as someone that uses a high DPI mouse just so that a ~5*10 (cm not inch) is the whole distance I move my mouse around (for 2 screens) I do like that, not for hardcore gaming/art tho

[@CurtisGingue]

My concern is the rotational movement you're going to get trying to move side to side. If you're a wrist aimer, moving side to side includes rotation which is not tracked by a centered sensor. I could see this being a genuine issue trying to maintain head level while moving horizontally. Would have to play with it myself tho

[@redumptious2544]

Love David’s style!

[@cliche_AF]

They do make a model D- in wireless lol also 3370 sensor should be the min for new mice in 2022.

[@Seelingfahne]

More David! Great presenter and has really smart insights on what he’s reviewing.

[@abdelkaderelbachir3817]

Forget about the mouse the whole entire video I was just wishing if I could brush his hair and get rid of or give him fresh coat of nail polish my feelings are hurt because I can't do it 🥺

[@mcheddadi]

Mad Catz did it a while ago on the "R.A.T. 1" plus 57grams only. truly ahead of the curve.

[@gakuyax]

I dont see any advantage of this against just increasing your mouse sensitivity.

[@ShrkBiT]

The Dell KM717 mouse has the sensor in the front as well. It takes some getting use to but the fine control to me feels better. It's not a gaming mouse, but this is hardly new. Logitech has done it before as well. I really like it.

[@Mobay18]

You guys realise that moving the sensor from the center, just creates a higher sensitivity. You can literally just take any mouse and turn up the sensitivity.

[@thenonexistinghero]

No, it doesn't create a higher sensitivity. There's a few more changes that would be especially noticable to those using the claw and fingertip grips.

[@Mobay18]

@@thenonexistinghero The rotational axis stil creates a rotation, no matter how far you put it away from your wrist. Nobody with claw or fingertrip grips turn their mouse in the hand, they still move the mouse. This only makes a difference, if you rotate the mouse, while it (The mouse) remain stationary.

[@thenonexistinghero]

@@Mobay18 Seems like you don't know physics then.

[@massam9343]

Shortcircuit should try all the kickstarter tech which will be so interesting and also give the ppl who involve with the kickstarter project to see what the item is like.

[@300-blkout]

I have never seen a single man exude so much bisexual energy

[@toseltreps1101]

it's silly and a helpless cry for attention

[@MatrixGaimz]

@@toseltreps1101 what's wrong with a person being themselves?

[@cubeography]

what about keith habersberger?

[@aditxd1]

@@toseltreps1101 ayo what?

[@HOT_SAUCE_ADDICT]

@@toseltreps1101 youre a sad human being

[@retrosoul-]

Kinda surprised you guys didn't take a look at the XTRFY MZ1. Designed by one of the most prominent mouse reviewers, Rocket Jump Ninja.

[@MrIrondog55]

Wow! It's a reverse Razer Boomslang! When the Boomslang came out (and we could only dream of having as a kid) it had its sensor way back at the ball of your hand. With today's better sensors, I can see this being more accurate with use. Mind you, the same goes for any mouse I suppose, once you get used to the weight, acelleration and the tilt it's all moot. I (embarassingly) still prefer the R.A.T. 7/8 after all these years, even with owning a G502, Corair M65 Elite and a Logitech G Pro Mouse. Those were ones I liked. Don't get me started on the Corsair Ironclaw and Dark Core or Razer Ouroboros... As a vet gamer, I find heft adds to accuracy... So I like the bigger boys , Daveyboy! Everyone has their own preference though. Whilst the Era1 is very cool, its ergonomics leave a little to be desired... But who knows, after a couple of revisions, this could be a baller ball-less and wire-less mouse. Great vid!

[@TheSecondOne123]

Boomslang sounds like the nickname of someone who definitely lives in Florida.

[@bluephreakr]

Something the developers of this mouse should experiment with is a double-mirrored light pipe to bring the sensor up without physically moving it. It would be a highly specialized component, proprietary af but it would be the best of both worlds if pulled off - a mouse that's centre-balanced with front sensor placement.

[@nickkk420]

Like mid engine rear wheel drive vehicles

[@omegaPhix]

Sensor position has no impact on balance

[@kght222]

i'm happy with my g502. started with a proteus core when it was first released and am now on my third (got the first replacement for free less than a month before the warranty ran out and even said on the phone that i was doing an rma almost exclusively because the warranty was about to run out, but i did have an issue with the scroll wheel function button), and my second was a proteus spectrum, so an "upgrade", and it lasted like 3 years before the left click started having issues so i bought a proteus hero and have had that for about 2 years, so about a decade of g502 mice and i love em, and i only had to buy two. but i like a heavy mouse.

[@QueenSaffryn]

The irony of the LMG CRT guy saying a 60gram mouse might be a bit front heavy is not lost on me :P

[@Standard.Candle]

Putting the sensor forward means more sensitivity and LESS precision. That's like saying running at 24,000 DPI is better because it's more sensitive, AND MORE PRECISE! lol.

[@SquintyGears]

The small difference in the movements you make with the change is probably completely inconsequential for any game. But i could see it make a difference for certain types of wrist injuries/inflammation

[@JV-ei4rz]

Homies lipstick & nails on point I guess?

[@Sithreis]

Higher sensor positions are niche. This doesn't increase accuracy, but it does alter your range of motion, usually to the detriment of muscle memory. Esp for wrist aimers the arc you actually track will be longer than the arc you intend to track in. You can test this by setting your dpi really low, make a normal swipe in ms paint, then hold whatever mouse you have unnraturally higher or lower in and mimic the same gesture.

[@nutmeg0144]

'alter your range of motion' - for wrist aimers that's a straight up benefit, a bigger range of motion means less arm movements and not having to constantly lift your mouse every 45 degrees. a quake player tox who is arguably one of the best arena aimers also acknowledged this. for a wrist aimer it's all relative to your fingertips especially since they do all of the fine motor adjustments, it makes sense having a sensor closer to the top and away from the pivot point as it results in better rotation potential.

[@Dan-Simms]

I just saw a review of a mouse that had a movable sensor, forget what one but cool idea. I'm just worried about how the liftoff is when the sensor is that far forward, like does it still track when half an inch off the pad? I hope not.

[@idlehour]

I just got a steelseries rival 5 and i love it. It has a useful toggle bar above the two side buttons

[@symphoricquoz3763]

I love innovations and breakthroughs! Maybe we're going to get, say, sophisticated lighting or polling rates or build quality or weight adjustment in larger mouse sizes? Or new larger mice at all? Maybe there's a change to the way the mouse is interacted with in a fundamentally better way? I can't wait to see! ...oh. More minor differences that only a niche of a niche of a niche of people would actually want, in a form factor that isn't even as fully featured as your average mouse nowadays. Innovative. ...and the presenter doesn't even like wired mice, so we aren't even sure about the full quality of the mouse from this "first impression". Splendid.

[@Sachz]

Who edited this video hilarious nice work !!!

[@Simon-tr9hv]

we already have the perfect wired mouse, its coolermaster mm710, ergonomic is great, it only weigh 45g or something, it only cost 30 to 40 dollars, even tho i switched to wireless g pro and recently roccat kone xp air, mm710 still very decent, by changing the sensor so far forward, the overall wrist and arm sensitivity muscle memory people trained for years is completely disrupted, takes long time to adjust and adjust back when they change to other mouse, its a gimmick, not advancement

[@doqtorisykero7971]

That's a weird way to spell MX518 Legendary

[@doqtorisykero7971]

@Taistelu_pelto Cons: Wired, no RGB Pros: HERO sensor, amazing shape, on-board memory, cheap, no RGB

[@zeryphex]

The next gaming mouse breakthrough is having silent mouse buttons and softer haptic feedback.

[@kiloneie]

Slap a touchscreen on a mouse, there perfect feedback.

[@insanegammer109]

They should have sent the press a 2nd version of the exact same mouse shape / prototype build but with the sensor mounted in the center. Then you could compare apples to apples...

[@stuartstogdill2406]

It’s a scam… they don’t have the money for that.

[@timblewee]

Can we have more David please? I love his reviews .... yes we'll go with reviews! 😉

[@denisruskin348]

Superlight is 63g in the worst fabrication scenario. Some units are around 58g, most like 60-61g.

[@MariVin0]

If thats true that sounds like some TERRIBLE quality control by Logitech

[@fieldrat9046]

@@MariVin0 What do you want them to do, throw out every mouse that’s heavier than 60 grams, or advertise 63 because they know that’s what their tolerances are?

[@GreenCinco12Official]

@@fieldrat9046 How about just good quality control? How tf can the same product have up to 5g difference?

[@MariVin0]

@@GreenCinco12Official Yeah thats what i said, its literally just bad QC

[@deminybs]

been using my G502 SE HERO for a few years and love it, wired all the way!!

[@zachgamr99]

If it was it would be on the main channel let's be real.

[@Aves_1]

Shortcircuit is their main channel for unboxings and first impressions. Has been for a while

[@nathans5773]

It would be nice if they offered it two (or three) different sizes. I recognize that is not a realistic ask but having the right sized mouse makes a big difference for me when it comes to wrist strain.

[@polymerizedrecords]

David is such a likeable guy. He's got this happy aura. As a host, he's up there with the best at LMG. Honestly it's impressive how many likeable, charismatic people work in this company.

[@HolarMusic]

Wrist RSI: the mouse

[@jaccckky8978]

Does it draw a curve when moving the mouse horizontally?

[@hyphen8d725]

If you dont move your mouse like a robot, yes. But you could adjust that with training your wrist, and arm movements.

[@yoriiroy1720]

no

[@kingoftherevolution4855]

Only as much as every other mouse? This is the first time ive seen anything acknowledge elbows

[@hyphen8d725]

@@kingoftherevolution4855 Its a bit more extreme, as the sensor is further away from your elbow, increasing the radius. And with normal mice, you could correct by turning your wrist to level the curve around the center, but with this mouse, the sensor is in the front, so it makes it harder than normal.

[@Yoshi92]

Grab your mouse at the very back and try for yourself right now? 😅

[@DriftPrimed]

Surely other manufacturers have tried changing the sensor position in their testing. I wonder what their reason was for not wanting to try changing the sensor position

[@Cory_]

Something being different doesn't necessarily mean it's an innovation.

[@vipesontv]

I need one of these. As a former g500 user no other mouse has felt right since.

[@Cimlite]

There has been mice previously where the sensor wasn't centered... and they all feel terrible. This isn't a good idea.

[@sourlikealime]

david too attractive did not know there was a product review in this video

[@thatbenbro]

David looks a bit off...anyone else get this vibe?

[@tevinslawson]

No idea when this was shot but they actually do make a Model D- wireless, just a fun fact

[@iamGLOP]

thats exaclty what I want in a mouse, sensor at the top. when I first got in to pc games I played with some cheep mouse I got a Staples and ive never had a mouse feel like that since.. :(

[@POLARTTYRTM]

The G500 series from Logitech is exactly what you are looking for.

[@iamGLOP]

@@POLARTTYRTM Nahh i want somthing like a razer viper mini shape, wireless and the sensor up front. That would be the BEST mouse ever

[@POLARTTYRTM]

@@iamGLOP The only razer mouse I've used is the DeathAdder, in fact, used 3 of them, the very first one is still alive and works perfectly 11 years later, it got me into skills level never before thought possible when playing autobhop. I was getting so much speed with that mouse that didn't know where to go. lol

[@iamGLOP]

@@POLARTTYRTM good ol deathadder. I have 986 hr time played on Advance warfare with that mouse only. I remember it so cleraly, had my first hard mouse pad also that was sweet.

[@telbatcrimes7372]

Why I cannot stop staring at those sleeves holding for their life due to the size of those hefty, huge guns yall

[@joonglegamer9898]

That has got to be one of the ugliest mice I've ever seen, it literally looks like one of those generic clumpy products you'd find shrink wrapped in your average pc store back in the early 2000's. I'm sure LGR would be interested in reviewing this at some point after it flops.

[@doqtorisykero7971]

It's a kickstarter project priced at 60$. It's understandable that they didn't use much money to make it look better. They're clearly going for (what they believe to be) best performance, not RGB or graphics.

[@smallbutdeadly931]

I swear, this just looks like those shitty oem mice that come with Pre-built PC's from manufacturers like Dell or HP

[@yummyhershey5902]

@@doqtorisykero7971 ​ When they said the mouse looks ugly, I don't think they were talking about RGB or graphics. I think they were referring more to the shape, which IS important for performance.

[@settlece]

your thumb paint looks beautiful

[@Yoshi92]

This makes sooo much sense lol. Imagine having to write with a pen in the middle of your hand (sensor location). Versus holding a pen like you hold a pen (THIS sensor position)! :D Getting used to it may take a while, or be impossible. But if you have a kid that has not held a mouse in their hand, maybe it makes sense. EDIT: I just checked. I have fingertip grip and my fingers rest on the middle of the mouse. So the sensor of my mouse is directly inbetween my index and middle finger tips ALREADY. 😂 Note to myself: Get a super short fingertip grip mouse, GWolves HSK or sth like that. Tired of the 40% of the mouse sticking out the front & never been touched, unnecessary weight, also the back.

[@SmilesHeavy]

I think it would best for a vertical mouse

[@Yoshi92]

​@@SmilesHeavy Actually very good thought m8! :O

[@Bigdog1787]

Some people have extremely long fingers seen a few people like they just make them to fit everyone.

[@healthyskepticism5486]

For someome who enjoy claw mice, the location of the sensor is the reson why i would not get it, maybe if the algorith to prevent the curseor from going down when moving wrist only

[@Aves_1]

Why do people obsess over ultralight mice? Dont lightweight plastic things feel cheap and hollow? They do to me at least.

[@Lxcx311]

I have a Logitech Superlight and it doesn't feel cheap at all. Other mice i tried with holes in them felt cheap tho.

[@TheSecondOne123]

They do to me too, but I liked the lightness once I got used to it.

[@thatdarnskag5043]

@@Lxcx311 I already don't like oil and dust residue on my mouse and controllers, so I can't imagine how I would bring myself to use one of those holey mice. The thought of palm sweat and dead skin collecting in there... 🤢

[@Lxcx311]

@@thatdarnskag5043 and then rgb to further show the dust off :D

[@nagi603]

I'd love to have another dual-optical mouse. I still remember the old logi dual-optical as being the most accurate and easiest to use.

[@who_what]

Sorry but I refuse to believe that 1 guy with a 3D printer came up with an meaningful "innovation" as simple as 'moving the sensor up' and somehow every single mouse company overlooked it. I really doubt it's anything special.

[@kiloneie]

Because it ain't, this was done before and was apparently very bad. Logitech was one of them. This is probably a scam, unfunded kickstarter with a bad track record.

[@MephistoRolling]

if the sensor is higher so moves more per hand movement, people will just lower settings so it feels the same as what they are used to. when the sensor is lower they raise the sensitivity to make it move more with the smaller sensor movement. Dont think it really matters in the long run.

[@sebastianvangen]

Crinch david. Cant watch this..

[@AustralianMurderTurtle]

I hope they take note of David's response and tune the product.

[@stormking1973]

Why the Nail polish..?

[@michaelrussell6661]

I wonder why noone else has thought of moving the sensor forward before now. The spot its currently in has been 'the spot' since the day of the ball.

[@sebastiandk9575]

Someone needs to teach this man how to paint his nails 💅

[@KYSMO]

Why don't you show him how?

[@sebastiandk9575]

@@KYSMO there's KZbin for that! haha

[@sebastiandk9575]

@@KYSMO But if I make a video response I'll let you and ltt know

[@Mel0nMel]

My gaming mouse is a ball mouse. It has super precise movements and super intuitive and awesome for shooters

[@quinnobi42]

moving the sensor to the top of the mouse is actually a pretty terrible idea in my book. It reminds me of apple magic mice, which also have the sensor on top. I hate apple magic mice for a variety of reasons, but one of the ones up near the top is my paradigm for delicate mouse movement is based upon pivoting the mouse to the side around the top end of it. To rephrase that, I swing the bottom of my mouse slightly to the side for small cursor movements. Guess what happens when the sensor is at the top? That's right, the cursor doesn't move at all.

[@iAmTheSquidThing]

2:04 _"I don't want to go too hard into it, it's a prototype."_ I'd argue now is the best time for tough criticism, because they have the opportunity to make changes based on feedback.