Is Vanguard really that expensive?

Check out Deck Flare's video here: • How Much Does it Reall...
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#cardfightvanguard #cfv #ヴァンガード #wcc

[@deckflare3770]

Thanks for making this Kai (and the shoutout 😃)! I do think my video could've been done better and I certainly did not expect that image to get as crazy as it did. I think my goal for this video really got lost in translation and people are taking it very much the wrong way. I do think however there are other aspects I could've added (How many events you need to go to, entry fees, etc). This was originally my own experiment just to see: 1. How much 1 deck costs on average? 2. Do cards overlap within the top decks and how much can you save? Found the results, thought they were neat, and rushed it out as a video since I thought it would be cool! Then that image really puts things out of context LOL. I will revisit this in a couple months though and do a real analysis of it. All of this really showed me a lot about the other games at the very least!

[@WorldClassCardfighters]

I think the video was fine. You explained how you did it in the beginning, clearly laid out the rules and standardised how you collected the info. The only problem is people would rather immediately react to a screenshot of a 20 minute video rather than watching it ;)

[@Schmaglow]

Just wanted to note that bushi rebooted the game (both times) due to the ridiculous power creep that happened near the end of both formats

[@CB-uu8yu]

Never let people forget.

[@reset6292]

And only 2 months before they reboot it do they release an actually good reprint product that tanks the prices of literally everything but only for like, a week before the format becomes obsolete again

[@varharan]

"Ridiculous power creep that happened near end of both formats" Are we forgetting that it didn't even take a year till all G decks became irrelevant due to sheer power scaling of V decks? Be serious.

[@blackfiresprout]

​@@varharan Just goes to show you Bushi is crap at R&D 👀

[@ObeliskTGS]

Honestly? I'd say that yes it is considering how niche VG is compared to the others. It's size and reach is considerably smaller than YGO's for example but commands prices that are just bad.

[@blackfiresprout]

Thank you for understanding 🙏

[@mrmeow2297]

Vanguard has no business being this expensive. Also props to Pokémon for being so accessible.

[@bryanmerel]

Pokemon is only accessible for a "short term". Probably the most ruthless in terms of deck rotation in terms of how much your non foil card simply becomes glorified toilet paper as soon as it's rotated.

[@muhammadmikhaelbinmohdniza2177]

I mean if you said it like that vanguard also rotate with power creep it only getting better in D format where they kinda slow down on the power creep and introduce the so called generic support card

[@muhammadmikhaelbinmohdniza2177]

And the rotation is not that much it once a year Tell me how many vanguard deck go in and out of meta in that year the longers meta deck in vanguard rn is probably EVA

[@inazumatan7050]

@@bryanmerel If you look at how long a deck stays competitively relevant, other card games like VG and Yu-Gi-Oh are still worse. Youthberk, a $500+ top-tier deck lasted one year in the spotlight. Tearalaments, a $1000 deck lasted half a year. Not to mention you could be dropping $100s of dollars on staples like Inlets or Brainwash or Pot of Prosperity just to make your low tier deck lose less hard to top tiers. On the other hand, you could’ve picked up Mew VMax for a fraction of that price and have it be relevant it’s entire rotation lifespan. Since they’re so cheap, you’d still be able to afford updating your deck every new set in Pokémon on the same budget as one YGO deck. You could even buy the entire Pokémon metagame for the price of Kashtira (which is bound to drop in relevance btw) Sure you could argue there are budget options in every game but if you’re compromising and not playing in a competitive environment just start playing with proxies and not waste a single dime.

[@MrPyroguy108]

@@inazumatan7050 If you spent $1000 on IshizuTear you got robbed, let's not exaggerate too much. I spent like half that and that's because I bought my Planets at the worst time.

[@gameguru42392]

Yes it is and its disgusting b.c vanguard isnt even competitive like that. Definitely the goofiest secondary market of any tcg.

[@pikago1811]

Its really disgusting fr

[@200zero]

big clown fest. the second market buyouts to make a quick buck is really fucking up this game for me

[@blackfiresprout]

Finally seeing the reasonable ppl here in the VG comments.

[@peacechan4500]

The reason is VG genuinely never know what is reprints This game genuinely never ever been right on reprinting stuff that actually matters And that's gonna be their undoing at this point

[@pikago1811]

"Global problems require global solutions" = great take, but unfortunately I think the West is going to keep being an afterthought until the game eventually dies and it makes me sad

[@mhz3317]

I'm genuinely convinced that bushiroad is done trying to grow the game outside Japan

[@blackfiresprout]

Its buddyfight all over again

[@mhz3317]

@@blackfiresprout why do you say that?

[@blackfiresprout]

@@mhz3317 the leaving it to die thing. They do that quite often In no particular order, G era to V Era to Buddyfight to Luck & Logic God forbid I mention Dragonborne

[@dreadlord8628]

​@@blackfiresprout it's not that bad

[@vala32]

So part of the issue that VG has isn't price ceiling, it's price floor. Basically every deck needs effect triggers, OT, and PGs. Most effect triggers and PGs hover around the €3-5 mark, more for the draw triggers usually, and most OTs hover around €5-15 mark. Elementaria Sanctitude is just hilariously expensive for what it is, and has been hovering around €10-20. Lets say you're playing 4 effect crits, 3 effect draws, 3 regular PGs and an Elementaria Sanctitude (which is pretty standard). You're already looking at like €70ish minimum for the essentials before you even get to real deck building, and that's even for casual decks. It's difficult to even trade for the things because everyone wants them all the time, and they're always in high demand. My view is that this is one of the biggest problems with Standard. I would like to see effect triggers and PGs aggressively reprinted. I'm talking like in every single booster. It'd knock a huge chunk off of the base price of decks and add value to boosters. Festival Booster 2023 already had a positive impact, so I would like to see this continue and be more aggressive. That's like €350+ that can be knocked off that final figure.

[@blackfiresprout]

Yes, this. People don't understand that even in a casual setting, buying the minimum amount of cards for the deck is Still Expensive 😂

[@Typ0King]

Then looks at the market im in (EU) can build the deck for half price or less 👀 How is jet 310? Are brainwas now 230 for a playset?? 80 for a deckset right?

[@JrEggProduction]

Fair enough when you mentioned the price to play "competitive" or "having fun". I respect that. I do want bushiroad to rethink their strategy towards their product on how to increase player base by increasing new player and reacquire their older fan base. The price factor does turn me off as a og/g/v vg player like me. As of current landscape of TCG, I think VG is losing out in terms of accessibility. My thoughts.

[@blackfiresprout]

They tried that with V, even more so promoting it by tryna do a Road Trip. Yeahhhh.... Didn't work out. They even missed some locations they planned to go to 💀

[@winton775]

Do you guys think that bushiroad should print a bit more cards that have high demand?🤔

[@blackfiresprout]

Obviously. But they're not Konami

[@someguywithabirdface2583]

True but they don't have konami pachinko money and Japanese lgs not happy about it

[@blackfiresprout]

Why the Vanguard comments here so much smarter about the market than the other VG videos I've watched?

[@blackfiresprout]

I lied. Theres still a buncha idiots in the comment section.

[@definitelynotmany4972]

I think the price it's a little inflated because there has been a while since the last effect trigger and over-trigger reprints, and also Youthberk. I honestly think Vanguard it's getting to a reasonable price point with the release of D-BT10, Messiah, and Festival Booster 2023.

[@dibbledabble4405]

Reprints once a year if we're lucky, shitty company

[@mhz3317]

​@@dibbledabble4405 6 reprints per case for D. That's awful

[@GhostGK21]

Yeah, lol. Remove Youthberk and it’ll take off like 600$ from total

[@blackfiresprout]

Nah, one reprint set isn't enough to suddenly crash the market. As much as we'd LOVE to see that.

[@mhz3317]

@blackfiresprout i doubt they'll help prices in NA anyways

[@summer4593]

I’m sorry but these prices do not make sense to me. Jet is an £80 starter deck that is playable out of the box and minerva is like £5 a copy. Youth is overpriced but its price isn’t linked to its competitiveness

[@blackfiresprout]

Its price is VERY MUCH correlated to its competitive structure lol

[@summer4593]

@@blackfiresprout nah g, swirlers and triggers aren’t costing that much unless you’re specifically looking to get swindled and there’s also nothing to justify $270 for minerva. Eva and do have expensive promos but not THAT expensive. The only one remotely believable is youthberk because every card’s price is ramped to oblivion. Don’t get me wrong vanguard is very expensive but if this is how much you’re paying for competitive decks you’re looking in the wrong places.

[@blackfiresprout]

@@summer4593 You know, MAYBE everyone doesn't have the same type of budget as you 🤡🤡

[@blackfiresprout]

@@summer4593 i've had SEVERAL people i talked to not even give Vanguard a chance just because of the Price of Standard decks.

[@summer4593]

@@blackfiresprout MAYBE don’t make assumptions. All I’m saying is that those prices aren’t accurate. The game has accessibility issues but like I said if you’re ending up with those price tags you’re looking in the wrong places because you can almost always find it cheaper elsewhere.

[@AoyagiMei]

A large problem is how a lot of the mandatory cards for building a competitive deck are higher in rarity, pile that on top of the crappy ratios per case, scalpers looking to profit, and we get this mess. Compare that to Pokemon or Digimon where a good chunk of your deck is cheap commons/uncommons.

[@gnobainos]

played digimon from set 1-5 and deck average then were 200-300

[@AoyagiMei]

@@gnobainos I only started playing when set 10 just released, and SRs were pretty cheap. Managed to grab stuff to build both Blue Flare and DarkKnightmon for under 150 AUD total. The only thing I've felt were ridiculously expensive were some of the secret rares - DeathXmon for obvious reasons, but then I also saw Gallantmon CM, Examon and the Rina tamers.

[@blackfiresprout]

I can make a Kaisergreymon deck for like $30 It's great 😊

[@ElFelocitaptor]

I will say this again. A game thats has little to none when it comes to competitive viability has no reason to command such a high price! I get this is an NA problem. Things weren't this bad in G era. It wasn't this bad at the beginning of Overdress either. Here in NA Cardfight Vanguard is in a hole. That sucks. Nobody wants it to be that way but, those numbers don't lie. It's not 2000+ dollars. However 400+ or even 250+ for such a game with a low and niche player base is way too high of an asking price. The amount of product cracked is awful. Thats our fault though. We don't put in enough of a preorder because Bushiroad doesn't want to push out more product in fear that they can't profit. They don't want to promote the game so its reach is limited to what its own player base brings in. Promos were literally staples and hardly any stores carried the game anymore let alone held tournaments where the promos were available. The hype when D-Era started was incredible. Yes, the OT killed a lot of new players on arrival. However, set 4 onwards pull ratios killed off just as many. As well as Set 5 10th RRRs which were ridiculous. I remember me and my girlfriend going to get singles for DBT-03 and we built full competitive decks for 60 bucks. Even getting Lyronel for literally 50 dollars which was arguably the best deck at the time. Its crazy to think this could be happening to this game. Once again this is an NA problem! Kris has stated himself plenty of times that the prices across the world are night and day compared to NA. This new era started out with promise. Cheap starter decks with boss units. Fun to crack 45 dollars boxes. Fantastic new series.... ok season 2 onwards was fantastic. Versus today with 42 dollar starter decks bought 2nd hand. Never any boxes on store shelves. Lastly no promotion on any social media outside the same loop. Bandai made commercials, and even made a song for digimon. They had Amber Lavigne put up an ad for Battle Spirits Saga. Hell One Piece is on a roll so hard and they don't even promote it except by IP alone. I will admit competition is like no other right now. With Lorcana on the rise and Bushiroad even releasing Shadowverse Evolve to split its own player base even more. I just don't know what they are thinking anymore.

[@blackfiresprout]

Firstly, make sure you space out ur paragraphs 😂 But yes, I agree with most of what u said 😌

[@ElFelocitaptor]

@@blackfiresprout sorry I noticed but I went too far and I was like na I don’t got the energy for that again. Definitely a me problem tho haha

[@axis8396]

50 cards for a single deck adds up, but the stride deck sets help like I'm planning on making messiah and then going for Arkhite or something once they get a bit cheaper

[@MrZer093]

Messiah looks to be super cheap. G1 Mikani is a trap and his price is just folks who scalped him upon Messiah reveal refusing to sell for cheaper despite later reveals and top decks showing Messiah doesn’t even care to use him. He’s not the next Swirler

[@otex5155]

Viable Drajeweled Masques is like $180-190USD. Thanks to lots of promos. And it’s not even Tier 1. And I’m sad 😭

[@Rayquaza894]

Bandai really out here killing it 💪

[@blackfiresprout]

Quite literally 😂

[@ThyranG]

Killing their playerbase, yeah🎉

[@MrJigglebits]

i thought he was going to go over, how much flights, hotels and cab fares cost. but still insightful.

[@ItzFreedomKel]

"...if you bought the strongest deck back then..." feels bad man. I have a blinged out Overlord deck, but I'll never touch Eva or Youthberk nowadays.

[@GardoGamer]

Wow!!! CFV decks are that expensive there?? Well, I've got DECKS that I want to sell yah....

[@ThyranG]

Most of the comment section hasnt looked at actual prices, and it shows. $700 for Youthberk? My guy, the deck costs way less than that.

[@someguywithabirdface2583]

People over reliant on singles

[@Flavor190]

Agreed youth berk is 350$

[@windwaker0rules]

Then the same applies to the other TCGs

[@invertbrid]

They are looking at popular TCG site, ofc gonna be bit more expensive but as above said, same applied to mother TCG as well.

[@EpicMTGMusic]

Yes, it is. Standard is awfully expensive. My MTG Legacy deck is way less expensive than my Chronojet standard deck. Btw, 80% of the deck came in the deckset, the swirlers and Mikanis are the ones making the price to the moon.

[@blackfiresprout]

Thank you for understanding 🙏

[@TachibanaTengoku]

I play battle spirits and his numbers are very inflated. He says he cut the duplicates but I don't buy it. A full masterplayset doesn't even cost 500, it's like 300, the numbers are too off for me to believe that.

[@WorldClassCardfighters]

He shows all his work in the video and the prices are from TCGPlayer.

[@nightmareyandere2886]

In before ghandiva releases in eng

[@codenamexelda]

The keyword here is "compete" vanguard is fairly cheap to get into when it comes to casual, also noticed the list is missing some games, probably because they're obscure/dead.

[@blackfiresprout]

Even casual is expensive. Like Esperaldea is $30, Orfist is like $20 per copy, 20k fronts are $6-8 a piece, etc. And they arent even the best decks.

[@Wslasher]

Ironic how you say that G Units made the game expensive back in the day but now the Stride Deck Sets like Chronojet & the upcoming Messiah are considered to be the budget option unless you buy the Premium edition.

[@andre51605]

to be fair the stride decksets are more or less the core of the deck, and once you buy them, what's left are a few staples to buy before you're able to start consistently winning games in big events

[@Wslasher]

@@andre51605 Exactly. A lot of people say Vanguard started to become expensive once they introduced strides (which isn't incorrect). But here comes 2 deck sets that reintroduces striding in the new format which turns out to be the cheaper alternative.

[@blackfiresprout]

For D i would say the Crests are more broken than the actual G units themselves.

[@Wslasher]

@@blackfiresprout It's not about being broken, it's about what is the cheapest entry point to the game.

[@blackfiresprout]

@@Wslasher That wasnt my point... 🤦🤦🤦

[@bryanmerel]

Thank god i play Yugioh OCG. My fully competitive Purrely Deck only cost me $180 dollars.

[@blackfiresprout]

Even in tcg, its easy to make semi-viable decks for several formats, for less than $100 I've made at LEAST 40 affordable decka for my friends at this point, it's great 🥰

[@bryanmerel]

@@blackfiresprout i still weep for the TCG peops. I wasn't aware of how scummy Konami of America can be with Rarity Bumps. I can't believe they printed Vanilla Purrely solely on UR rarity, when it was just common print in the OCG. 🤮

[@blackfiresprout]

@@bryanmerel I dont focus on yugioh comp, so im having the time of my life playing legacy decks that i love from the anime. Blackwings, salamangreats, HEROs, etc. all for less than $100!! With ultra rare Rarity upgrades & everything 🥰 Meanwhile a card in Vanguard that let you draw 1 is like $10 per copy lol. Vs upstart goblin is like 50 cents LUL

[@bryanmerel]

@@blackfiresprout OMG, YES! I olay competitive, but i still dedicated some to finally complete my blue eyes deck. At most times, Yu-Gi-Oh is most fun simply just playing with your close buds with your pet decks. 🥳 One of my friends actually built a skull servant deck. It was bonkers fun. 🤣

[@blackfiresprout]

@@bryanmerel hell yea, ppl are to focused on comp builds that they don't realize you can play these games with way more variety formats 👀👍

[@Spookiester]

The game probably would grow more if it was not this grossly overpriced.

[@blackfiresprout]

It would help if the playerbase wasn't makin out Bushiroad as some gods too

[@Spookiester]

@@blackfiresprout Most defnitely even if the game reboots again or dies in the west I would always enjoy the fun times I had going out playing something that made me genuinely smile in tough times. Might try another card game in future but vanguard currently is not in a good state for me personally to have fun. If others enjoy it sure good on them think after this video finally clicked to me why keep false hoping Bushiroad is going to fix the problems they caused. This is attempt number 3 and its already following the exact same patterns as other formats if not worsening. If they suddenly improve great will still wait a year to see if it goes downhill again.

[@blackfiresprout]

@@Spookiester Bushiroad has managed to hit the same issues Konami has, in the span of JUST 3 YEARS. It's insane. Konami is allowed to do it because they have several years behind them. But Vanguard? You can't fucc up like that in just a few years 😮‍💨

[@nekoluxuria7721]

you know it is kinda bad when the only other way to play VG is via the 70 dollars Dear Days (well 80 dollars) with that 70 extra buck expansion for every other card out there.

[@blackfiresprout]

70-80 for the 1st additional pass, another $20-30 for Minerva, then $20 for any future potential set

[@jo-ri-oh8950]

I don't think the reason why the supplies are so low is because there is a high demand for the game... Bushi know that the game outside of Japan is really *really* niche and they don't want to print more cards than actual demand for maximize profit, so they print a minimum of supplies and that's one of the many reasons why the decks are so expensive....

[@someguywithabirdface2583]

I think its more like over reliant on singles + waifu tax

[@jojomojolazy]

Magic doesn't cost that much due to commander 😊

[@ThyranG]

Are you sure..?

[@someguywithabirdface2583]

​@@ThyranG playable decks aren't woth that much unless you're a tryhard

[@invertbrid]

I wanna say u can't compare casual deck in casual format like commander vs actual top tier deck in competitive format like VG standard. Not fair comparison at all.

[@samanderson1188]

I disagree with you on the notion that a meta deck let’s say would have a longer term value than meta decks in other card games. For example Youthberk went from tier 1 to what feels like tier 2 in the span of a set with Chronojet and Eva on the rise, and will be nowhere near a top 5 contender after set 10. For how expensive the deck is, would have been nice if set 9 or 10 provided it support that kept it in the limelight.

[@blackfiresprout]

Yeah, thats the issue sadly with Japanese Tcg scene in general. Sets rotate like every 1-2 months because Japanese hate staying in a format for too long (it gets stale for then) hence why the competitive scene changes so ridiculously fast 💀

[@windwaker0rules]

Oh and Overlord only got to tier 1 when the promo came out which was way too late its "support" was technically months after you bought the tier 3 deck from the actual set.

[@windwaker0rules]

You need tier 2-3 to be $5, I can't stand effect triggers that are normal triggers but better.

[@battletoys1645]

I'm laughing my assoff coz , i followed the anime "choose the card that speaks to you the most", and then I chose Bastion, when I try to upgrade it, Holey crap, I can buy 1 mcfarlane keaton batmobile with this 😅 just with staple cards alone. 😅 But you know , i like the game, maybe I could choose other deck

[@VillainViran]

The video game is suddenly seeming like a steal in comparison

[@filipokec2121]

Beautiful said

[@iamtherealaura]

I'm glad I don't play meta lol. Well rn I am bc Gandiva reminds me so much of Vanquisher :(

[@poompoom3495]

This is why ghandeva is the best thing

[@someguywithabirdface2583]

Eng standard players : no... This deck is expensive 😭 Bahasa standard player who played MLB: Weakness disgust me

[@Reed2112]

That pic comparison really triggered a bunch of butthurt ppl for sure, their pride can't accept it just because their tcg lose to another tcg in price comparison.

[@blackfiresprout]

That & ppl need to realize it just guesstimates & not the definitive price ranges 👀 It just meant to give us an inside look of what the market might be looking like for each game.

[@Reed2112]

@@blackfiresprout Yea, idk why some tcg community in my city loves to compare one with another, which one is superior. Some ppl just can't enjoy something and be peaceful.... *sigh

[@yijinglow9382]

I just wondering does it necessary to play ENG version? What if the whole world just play JP version, wouldn't that increase accessibility around the globe and Bushiroad itself able to save some of their printing cost so they can sell their product for maybe 10% cheaper?

[@MrZer093]

They’re barely different. The main difference is Monster Strike being in JP format and JP being only a couple months ahead. This isn’t YGO where English gets a few good cards a set JP doesn’t get until later

[@yijinglow9382]

@@MrZer093 Not just that. English release has alwayd been way too slow. I remember there is a time where Eng almost align to JP, even tho i am not a Eng player i am still happy to see that. But nowadays, everything get stuck at there for 2-3 months before something new comes out for Eng.

[@horizonbuilds643]

You under estimate the factor that most of the people playing tcgs are more into casual play. Turning an English format into JP would lose almost half of it's player base. Not everyone has the determination to memorize JP text cards, infact, it is a hassle to do so. While in theory you invest less money, but you'll invest more effort by doing so.

[@horizonbuilds643]

If you're a native JP speaker then yes this might work for you. If not, please remember how you played the game the first time and how much hassle it is than playing with translated cards to begin with

[@WorldClassCardfighters]

Not everyone can read Japanese and not everyone can memorise card text. People just won't play.

[@Koga206]

Just got back in and yeah its crazy out here. But it's also okay cause out of all the tcg ive played CFV is my personal favorite.

[@pikago1811]

overblown prices are never ok......bruh moment

[@Koga206]

@@pikago1811well obviously buying these s tier decks for these current prices are a terrible idea lol I got avantgarda and bastion, and pretty sure they won't be competitive any time soon

[@blackfiresprout]

​@@pikago1811 Ty for understanding 🙏

[@asianwingsauce]

Cardfight isn't even that big. 😅

[@Trujones]

Naw yugioh is above it, for sure.

[@gameguru42392]

Its not. Yugioh also has more staples that can go into more decks.

[@ObeliskTGS]

@@gameguru42392 This is true. Hand Traps, Generics, Extra Deck and Side cards can all be moved from one deck core to another so while the initial investment is expensive you're also getting alot of mileage out of those cards for the next while (I paid a good amount for the Baronne I bought last year but it's also been in half of my decks since). Furthermore Konami is also WAY less ass backwards about reprints than Bushiroad. The Megatins have been a godsend for making the expensive stuff cheaper eventually and they've also started doing the Battles of Legend sets to bring other money cards down. Festival Collection 2023 is a good start from Bushi but they should have been doing this *years ago* EDIT: Fair point that the next comment made: YGO doesn't have format warping promos held hostage in Japan that when they eventually DO come overseas are made into Shop Tournament rewards that have a limited print run which make them hard to get multiples of and expensive. Most of YGO's promos are actually mid AF but the good ones do eventually come over after a while and get released into *booster sets* to make them more accessible to the public. The only time that doesn't happen is if a Jump Promo is made into a Prize Card which is unfortunate since now you'll have to wait for a reprint but they tend to not make Prize Cards format warpers and to their credit, Konami has only done this twice in the last 13 years: Minerva and the CED Pendulum. Only 2 format warping Promo Cards that were incredibly difficult to get in the span of almost 15 years? That's actually damn impressive compared to the how many we're at now for VG.

[@mhz3317]

Nope. Ygo staples can go into most decks, have multiple reprints, and don't have promos that the community can't get a hold of. It's ridiculous that CFV is more expensive than ygo when it's so much smaller.

[@mhz3317]

@@ObeliskTGS Minerva wasn't even needed for the better deck of the formats, and CED at least got a reprint(not a good reprint but a reprint nonetheless)

[@BlackKyurem5]

​@@ObeliskTGS Even with that, Festival Collection reprint policy is awful, there is way too many and you don't pull a lot

[@YGOHermit]

Yea but in vanguard there is not powercreep at the level of other games, you can win with a 20$ deck, easy. In vanguard u pay for a +15% advantage, in yugioh you pay for +150% advantage. You have way more budget options for good stuff in VG even if standard is newer than most TCGs. Imagine winning with War Rocks in yugioh versus Kashtira/SHeavySamurai in yugioh. Now imagine winning with any deck versus a meta deck in Vanguard. There is a way higher chance to actually have a decent fighting chance. The game fundamentally has a better and more fun design than most tcgs. in Cardfight there are more factors like being able to have a strong early game.

[@BlackKyurem5]

Horribly wrong, especially in Standard where Decks are much more consistent apart from the sacky overtrigger so you really feel like you're playing an inferior Deck compared to V or even Premium. Not to mention how Chronojet warped the format and their solution was to double down on the powercreep with Set 10 after printing Gandiva which is just Chronojet but better

[@YGOHermit]

​@@BlackKyurem5 well V format is super cheap and everything is viable. Also in D you can get chronojet non foil for like 45$

[@Rayquaza894]

Me looking at decks that are winning……

[@BlackKyurem5]

@@YGOHermit But that's just the Deckset, things Spike up really quickly when you start looking for other cards to make it better

[@YGOHermit]

@@BlackKyurem5 the power increase for swirler compared to other budget options is very small compared to how powerful a barronne in yugioh is versus any other level 10 synchro

[@AcePlaysTCGs]

Maybe I'm not competitive enough. I don't see people buying specifically the top 5 decks all at the same time just to try to compete. The methodology is severely flawed against Vanguard. Vanguard is very much an investment game because of the longevity. Eva is from set 5 last June. Overlord is from set 2/5. The Jet deck comes out of box for a fraction of the cost with just a few tweaks and you don't NEED Swirler. Competitive/Meta meaning powerful vs popular is debatable. Idk if Swirler in Jet is as required as the masses would have us believe. That could affect the price tremendously. Clesrly these issues fall on deaf ears when people buy overpriced cards instead of forgoing them out of principle. I'd love to know how much of the player base feels compelled to buy different playsets between their decks. I'm the only person I know at my whole locals who shares the same playset between multiple decks in a single nation. That might help supply at least a little.

[@MrZer093]

The guy acknowledged that sticking to a nation should make it much cheaper to compete and he did the same methodology across all the games. It’s not flawless but he mostly went “this is how much the top 5 decks from each game are”. While very few would even do that, there’s also just the fact that he needed to cover the fact that people don’t just go for the most expensive or the cheapest meta deck. The number in the thumbnail was just the total price and a better number is probably the average after taking out dupes, which Vanguard does go down a couple places on

[@AcePlaysTCGs]

@@MrZer093 why add them together at all then? There's no point in doing that unless you're the biggest competitive whale in the game.

[@YGOHermit]

same with effects triggers. they are just slightly better than regular ones. To me they dont feel like a necesity.

[@ElFelocitaptor]

@@AcePlaysTCGs Take it like this if you are a primarily competitive player you have a couple of those decks. and yes they are that expensive. He went off ones that topped the most so those are the versions of those decks that win the most. It doesn't really matter if we as individuals think a deck doesn't need something to win. This is for the versions that topped most.

[@mirceadolineanu9715]

​@@MrZer093 While he did the same method for all the games, the life span of the decks and staples wasn't taken into account. A lot of Magic staples have very short life span (due to how much product gets launched by the day), especially in standard (where there's set rotation). In Yugioh, decks live 6 months at best if they are ok-ish or bad; very good (and expensive) decks live just 3 months at best. Non staple cards can be very expensive, because people are hyping up what they see in OCG (Japan is ahead with half a year in releases). And the staples are very expensive and usually needed in playsets (except for extra deck cards). The fact then new ones pop up every 1-2 sets (3-6 months) isn't helping either. However, a game like flesh and blood, which topped the list as being the most expensive, has a very loooong deck longevity (the 3 most expensive decks chosen are from a september 2021! set and are still going) and lots of generic staples that remain good for a long time. Also, the big money usually sits on equipment cards (1-ofs) which have plenty of budget replacements; the game is just too new and didn't get enough time to give enough reprint sets. Still, the game also has loads of budget decks that can beat the 1000$ decks easily when piloted well, and the game play is much more skilled based than in Magic or Yugioh. Vanguard I haven't played competitively, but honestly, in Europe at least, I think that the game is a bit expensive just because very little product gets opened. Like, on cardmarket, if you wanna make a Bavsargra deck, you'll find only 10 copies total of the spear, and at different sellers same with Trickmoon and that dragon if forgot the name of. Still, from what I've seen standard in Vanguard has pretty good deck longevity (especially when compared to Yugioh)