IS YU-GI-OH TOO EXPENSIVE? - Magical Hats

[@geoxys4243]

Gage wasn't the imposter, but he was the villain.

[@tyr_4941]

Gage feels like the type of person that would sue WotC for abolishing the reserve list

[@maxinesenior596]

@@tyr_4941 He would be the type of person to buy the $1000 proxies until he had a 4 copy playset of Black Lotus and then say "skill issue"

[@Galchoo1]

I mean, he did get quite interested in MetaZoo. A game whose playerbase reminds me more of NFT bros. So there's that.

[@joshcruzat3112]

“If YOURE NOT WILLING TO DROP MONEY THAT COULD PAY FOR A CONSOLE OR A SEMESTER OF COMMUNITY COLLEGE ON STAPLES AND STILL NOT HAVE A FUNCTIONAL DECK GET OUT OF THE GAME I PEASANT” was the vibe I got. Hella gross.

[@U1TR4F0RCE]

For more villain gage I look forward to the eventual episode where they talk about reprints and high rarity cards in general. I know that MBT and him agreed on Ghost rares and starlights being really hard to get and be super expensive though with Joseph arguing that they should exist at lower rarities as well like the old ultimate rares.

[@Link_Bird]

What I've learned from magical hats: Kevin's opinion matches player sentiment Joseph's opinion contradicts player sentiment Nadir's opinion is more neutralized and Gage's opinion is wrong

[@eavyeavy2864]

Wrong? You mean based

[@SparkShadow212]

​@@eavyeavy2864Nope, just wrong.

[@CD-zi6rb]

No, they’ve all had opinions mirroring and straying from player sentiment. Gage is the only real outlier with wild off the wall takes.

[@soggy6645]

Farfa riding that War Rock train straight into the mountain

[@GurenBlanc]

😂

[@Nelland]

I appreciate that they just zoomed on Farfa flexing his War Rock Mountain, because i can't stand whatever Gage is spitting, i love Gage but sometimes he does have that kind of takes...

[@GogetaEiyuuYamcha]

Hyped to hear Gage complain about poor people always begging for things like houses

[@TheJiminatorHS]

Gage is absolutely 500% correct here.

[@hazamax2139]

@@TheJiminatorHS Bruh

[@velphidrow]

@@TheJiminatorHS no

[@AnuxeL]

I love minorities and women's rights. 🙂

[@spserpent]

@@AnuxeL ?????????????????????????????????????????????

[@RayquaSr.]

I love how gage is just like "yeah the games affordable *if* you devote your life's time and savings into this game and make it not just a hobby but a life style"

[@spserpent]

"Just accurately place two slices of bread in front of your eyes, buy playsets of every staple imaginable for four digits amounts of cash total, THEN you can think of actually enjoying the game and get the cards you want for cheap!"

[@Jaddas]

Just invest 300 dollars into staples for a game you just started with. After that, building a new deck will only cost you like 200, so really you should be fine. Also if you after a few months decide that you dont like yugioh that much, thats your fault.

[@topdog69jb]

Tax deductions. Look up how as a content creator you can buy a 3 million dollar car and if you make content out of the purchase and reason you get the 3 million dollar car and money back. Loop holes exist

[@joshcruzat3112]

The worst thing about this is globally we’re going through a recession on top of the fact an affordable printing policy exists.

[@nigamnation]

I also don't get why you wouldn't want the game to be more accessible. Isn't more competition good for the game? Metagames develop faster when more people play.

[@Miss-Alexis]

Gotta love how Gage came in here with the most absurd, unhinged take possible, and nobody thought he was the impostor because we all know that Gage genuinely thinks like that

[@dp101]

He's expressed the opinion before on stream with farfa and MBT, was incredible seeing him go full ancap.

[@dontmisunderstand6041]

@@dp101 That's not ancap, it's just stupidity. If your response to "it's too expensive" is "so pay more money", you're just an idiot. There's no other special tags you get to explain that. Just stupid.

[@dp101]

@@dontmisunderstand6041 Oh, trust me, I didn't think for a second it wasn't also stupid. It just also feels like a very ancap position.

[@dontmisunderstand6041]

@@dp101 That's fair. It takes a willful ignorance of economic theory to become ancap in the first place, and those takes were very much on-brand for anarcho-capitalism.

[@ExtraVictory]

@@dontmisunderstand6041 I'm somewhat libertarian so this somewhat offends me

[@XpPotions]

I thought magical hats as a concept had the danger of making someone defend an opinion so indefensible that it would be obvious they were the imposter but no Gage really just said all that and believed it

[@BirdmanTCG]

Yeah this is a one topic thing gage has kept this opinion on the game for over a year and had discussed It previously with mbt

[@DragonfoxShadow]

Well, he works in a card shop. So he profits from scamming people hundreds of dollars for one piece of cardboard.

[@PhantomThiefXI]

@@DragonfoxShadow card shoppers 🤝 landlords

[@alonsoarana5307]

@@PhantomThiefXI ACSAB

[@CoordinatorKYamato]

​@@DragonfoxShadow Whaaaattttt, no, you don't understand, you're a *quitter* if you don't spend $500 on cardboard every 3 months! There's definitely no vested interest in that position!

[@HalfTimeLazer]

In this episode: Gage alienates at least half the people who rooted for him in prog

[@jamismiscreant7514]

This isn’t a new take for him he’s expressed this opinion since prog season one

[@nsalieister3334]

Honestly for all its worth atleast he is sticking with his take as shitty as it is

[@blind0wl123]

I agree with him. If you're not gonna invest in a hobby you enjoy then it's gonna be too expensive no matter what you choose to do. You have to be willing to spend both time and money on something to get something out of it

[@nsalieister3334]

@blind0wl123 Yea I understand that and agree that unless you want to be a YCS topper you most likely wont need the most optimal build of your deck possible if u are a casual But if you do want to play competitively the cards are still expensive as hell Kashtira is a thousand dollar deck there is no reason why its THIS expensive The game needs more decks like Salads ie structures that gives a playable deck that you can take to a regional and win so people can have atleast an option to play at competitively levels

[@blind0wl123]

@@nsalieister3334 MBT himself said that tearlament was extremely cheap aside from the field spells and even decks like salamangreat are not budget if you have to get staples for them too.

[@misslaylafortune]

Thank you for reminding me why Gage deserves what he gets in the Progression Series.

[@jaedonabbott4430]

Fr

[@alandtic4616]

He’s a funny guy but man his takes are insane

[@joshcruzat3112]

Imagine telling someone to drop money on staples that could buy them a console, a used laptop, or a semester at a community college and still not be able to play the game “oh you’re too poor and didn’t want to invest hard enough”.

[@FiestaGaomon]

I'm a guy who doesn't want anyone to be hurt, but damn I want Gage step on a Lego

[@joshcruzat3112]

@@FiestaGaomon another thing to is when they’re throwing around dollar amounts they’re talking in USD. I love how in one fell swoop Gage said “hey all you Eastern European, South American, LAN players you’re too fucking poor get bent bitches”

[@nhrluna8432]

Gage pointing out that it took 4 different sets for Forbidden Droplets to finally drop to $25 and trying to spin it as a W for the average Yu-Gi-Oh player hurt my soul a little bit. Saying that Dracosack being a hundred dollars during DR format was such a big deal while not bringing up the fact that modern extra deck monsters that are infinitely more staple like Accesscode And Baronne have been more than $100 easily. I think DAD is really the best counter argument you could have to say that cards in the past were more expensive than the present, but even then, that's more of an outlier than anything.

[@jaedonabbott4430]

No but you don’t understand things were so super duper expensive back then so Yu-gi-oh MUST be affordable now. Obviously things being atrocious previously means that we should thank Konami for their predatory ass reprint policies

[@luminous3558]

DAD also had f*cking crush card.

[@lamiaprincess6371]

Dracossack was reasonable because you needed to play three of it, that was 100% mandatory. You needed to drop the $300 on Dracossack and the like $180 on Big Eye before you even started looking at the rest of the deck. Like yeah, a single copy of Accesscode could be more but you never needed more than one.

[@dragonmaster951753]

Keep in mind the argument is more affordable now. If previous tier 0 decks were over 1500 to purchase and a current tier 0 is 900, that means the game is technically more affordable. Doesn't mean it's cheap. If a staple that still sees play is $25 now but was $200 previously, the game is getting affordable. It's still not cheap overall but if prices are dropping its becoming more accessible. The only true inexpensive way to experience the game is Master duel currently. But they are also right in that non meta strategies are around 150. If I don't buy some random cards my entire master duel is roughly 150 to play. I'll get stomped without spending another 100 but I could play the game with a deck that can play cards. Maybe even steal a cheap win off someone

[@joshcruzat3112]

That’s still not a good thing. I quit during Dragon Ruler format as a teen it was too expensive and, as an adult with a middle class income, bought full power Ishizu Tearlament for YCS Pasadena. In both instances, it sucks.

[@therranolleo468]

Gageh's hit is basically "lmao don't be poor" And that's the hill he decided to fight for and die on

[@GurenBlanc]

😂 it's just that simple

[@Createrz2015]

Just have money lmao

[@ND-er1bo]

he went out of his way to rant on twitter and argue through countless tweets with people because ghost rares became very very slightly less rare

[@GurenBlanc]

@@ND-er1bo 😂

[@clayxros576]

Amd that wasn't even the question, he just opted to mald at people living through a recession.

[@Pattex_]

Props to gage for sacrificing himself to make as many people engage with the comments as possible

[@JoeLikesBlue]

I have newfound respect for him now. Not because I agree with his take, but because of f how-and I don’t say this lightly-BASED that take was. Bro has everyone against him and will still stand his ground 😂

[@yaboyvickk5635]

@@JoeLikesBlue facts gotta respect someone going against the grain like that

[@manporo5865]

​@@JoeLikesBlue I would say it is based, if it wasn't for one tiny thing, staples are being reprinted like crazy in structure decks now. I can't justify having spent as much on Ashes 6 months ago with a solid reprint that came in 2 months later. I will agree that staples are important and yes we really have it good now, but the rest of his argument was total dog shit.

[@DinoPunk1905]

Gage giving off "Let them eat cake" energy this episode.

[@xolotltolox]

Except gage actually said it

[@nemesis-t3ddi]

Gage: I think the game is less expensive than it was before. Also Gage: is now an adult and swimming in starlight rares.

[@tatteredshield8120]

He isnt wrong though. The game IS a lot cheaper than it was back in the day. Doesn't mean the game is cheap though

[@SparkShadow212]

​@@tatteredshield8120 Exactly. Just because it's cheaper than before, doesn't mean it's not expensive.

[@senyikan3849]

"lmao inflation we gotta go with it" damn gage is argentinian now

[@AnuxeL]

Gagé

[@AlexisVolk97]

El Gagué

[@petiteexplication6249]

As a Moroccan i would say yes we had a huge community for years and even did our own tournaments in different cities but now there is almost no one playing the game anymore because of the insane prices

[@vajrayanaga]

Same for turkey and what's worse is that now that player number has diminished a blacmarket has emerged and now we have to pay 25$ for a structure deck

[@petiteexplication6249]

Yes same goes here the few structure decks and packs are insanely expensive

[@qucciretknoops824]

Just play dark worlds

[@petiteexplication6249]

@@qucciretknoops824 you realize that any structure deck is literally double the normal price

[@michaelkeha]

We still have a scene here in South Africa but the competitive community has kept trying to kill it as they are basically even at locals people to play decks worth more than some people's monthly incomes just to not get absolutely bodied

[@Rebornblader]

Another great chapter of the "Gage hates poor people" story.

[@shortsteel7907]

After watching this I think I'm joining Team Cimo for prog, maybe he actually deserves the protagonist powers after all.

[@Lich_V.]

the reason I have been team cimo the whole time

[@VexytheWolf]

Same

[@notaraven]

"look if you drop the initial 500 dollars on staples and an extra 150 on a deck you have no knowledge about you'll do great!" Gage believes in trials by fire and that fire is made from your checking account.

[@Nocturne989]

The fact that it took four reprints and the card not being very playable at all this format (something Gage conveniently doesn't mention) just for it to get to being like $25 bucks. That is more credence to the fact that it IS too expensive lol

[@rafamegrapha]

Love how distant coder got the W by just letting Gages argument take over the video lmao

[@joewaldeck]

I like how Farfa was fanning out his collection of War Rock Mountain when investments were brought up

[@nolandost3070]

I'm in love with this series, concept is brilliant and the execution is on point.

[@jonathangeider7022]

Gage “if people are losing, it’s their fault for being poor”

[@mammy24]

The part Gage isn't getting is, starting from ZERO cards in the hobby (or extremely old ones like the ancient dark world deck or trickstar decks like I have) you CAN NOT justify buying EVERY staple. You'll literally have NOTHING to play. not even something resembling playable. You'd have those old crusty decks with new staples... and the STAPLES change. Bystials weren't a thing, droplet wasn't a thing. Hell back when I did play? Half the staples didn't even exist. I can MAYBE justify 900 on a hobby, I cannot justify 500+2500 for every staple. that's fucking insane. just for the chance that "maybe someday hopefully this card I payed hundreds of dollars for a playset of will be good in like 3 years."

[@mihneazoican2479]

Yeah what he seems to miss is that Droplet might be good right now and it’s *relatively* affordable, but what are you gonna do in like 6 months when Droplet gets powercrept and the better option will be like $200 a piece

[@luminous3558]

You dont need those staples at all either. Just get the ED staples and build something like swordsoul that got reprinted into the dirt.

[@whathappenedtodorcas5372]

It never ceases to amaze me how batshit insane Gage's takes are sometimes.

[@julias01]

Oh boy 3 AM! Time to watch my favorite yugi-tuber

[@AaronMR]

2 am for me

[@christofferthorsson607]

9am, perfect argument to go with my morning tea

[@aaronr7567]

So accurate

[@monkeyman3847]

I’ve been staying awake waiting for this

[@unamusedwaffle]

WHY THE FUCK AM I AWAKE?!

[@Zeusgodofstorms]

I physically cannot believe Gage believes that hundreds of dollars to play competitively is acceptable in any way shape or form. I shouldn't have to spend /multiple paychecks/ to play yugioh at an effective level. That's just not realistic to expect people to do.

[@genm4827]

Dude works at a card shop. I think the unspoken reality is that he thinks expensive cards are fine because he’s the one who gets to sell them and make bank off them tbh

[@ConductorElcrest]

@@genm4827 He doesn’t work at the cardshop anymore

[@rogaldorn4759]

@@ConductorElcrest I wouldn't want to employ him myself, Imo

[@Weareonenation303]

Gage is mental if he thinks this is fine.

[@blaze3422160]

Sadly though just about every TCG game is stupid expensive for no reason. Magic used to be notorious for its Standard format that made reselling useless if you were late and had to essentially pitch all your old cards as they weren’t legal. For some reason everything gets stupid pricey at a competitive level.

[@Ak4ntor]

Is gage really gonna tell me "just pick up kashtira without staples its cheap" while the deck costs like 1k bucks rn? hahaha

[@JorgeLuiz487]

Here in brazil 3 structure decks is sometimes almost 1/4 of the average worker wage unless you are lucky to get someone selling far cheaper, at 3 to 4 years ago you could get all 3 for half of the actual price

[@rektenx]

Gage, my dude, you built your life and career around Yu-GI-Oh! I didn't. Not many people do. The amount of time and money I can spare for this hobby never, ever justify four digit prices of decks. I hope you can consider all the arguments made by the others and the people in the comment section. Great episode!

[@ZombieMushmom]

The energy this episode was insane with Gage's chaotic villain takes and Farfa's war rock mountains.

[@Poppipower]

Gage couldn’t be the impostor. Only the real Gage would fumble with that mic stand like that for half the video.

[@NobStop]

These could be long form debate podcasts and I'd still watch it all.

[@amazedalloy]

Gage is part of an org so he likely doesn't have to cover the full costs of cards. Also the argument that "you only need to pay a fortune at the top level" is a great way to phrase "the game is pay to win"

[@joshcruzat3112]

C o r r e c t

[@tickledeggz]

It's not pay to win, its pay to play, i cant just go ad get the best deck and auto win the next event I go to, you have to also be good at the game.

[@amazedalloy]

@@tickledeggz a game can be pay to play and pay to win at the same time

[@nichidoushiro]

tbh I would think that is one of the many reasons why some people hate decks like floo, because it's one of the few actually competitive decks that are also AFFORDABLE, and those people are angry that others get to pay less on a deck and still win significant amount of games with it

[@flamboyantwarlock7101]

Gage's "We have it better than we used to!" argument doesnt work when you remember that staples used to go for $1.50 and now they go for $150.

[@reisen4963]

You can just tell Gage never had to worry about his paycheck not lasting until the end of the month lmao

[@KingSpectre844]

Why are you spending money on cardboard if you're concerned about bottoming out and overdrafting? Sounds like you need to sort out your priorities. YuGiOh is a luxury hobby, not an entitlement.

[@WoodsRunner]

@@KingSpectre844 okay that’s not really the argument. The argument is just that it is more expensive than it should be, even prohibitively so, to play yugioh, and that gage seems completely passive about that fact. It’s callous as hell to basically say “poor people can’t have fun hobbies”

[@KingSpectre844]

@@WoodsRunner That's not the argument Gage was making. You can play YuGiOh for free on EDOPRO/OMEGA/DuelingBook/Masterduel/DuelLinks ect. Nobody is saying "poor people can't have fun hobbies" What is being said is, if you want to play the physical card game there is going to be a cost associated with acquiring cards. And the level at which you want to compete, from casual to WCS is going to dictate the amount you are likely to spend to be able to do so. You can build a cheap deck and do relatively well at locals, but if you want to compete in higher tiers of play, you're going to need to use higher tier, and as a result more expensive, cards. This should not surprise anyone. A racecar driver with a fully tuned Formula1 car is going to be able to compete at a higher level than the guy with an 01 Honda Civic that he races with his friends. What I hear when people say things like, "It's more expensive than it should be." is "Why can't the high value cards cost the same as the low value ones? Why does a meta deck cost more than a casual or rogue one? I wanna play meta, but I don't wanna pay. Wah" And that tells me the person complaining doesn't understand basic economics. And to address your first sentence, yes. That was the point being made by the brainlet that I responded to. If you are worried about your paycheck not lasting until the end of the month, the last thing you should be doing is spending your money on frivolities. Again, this is common sense.

[@ExtraVictory]

@@WoodsRunner Where did he say poor people can't have fun lmfao. "This particular hobby might not be for you if you can't afford it" isn't the same as "eat dirt peasant tbh."

[@ExtraVictory]

People are clearly oversensitive, 85% of everyone in these comments are just weeping openly and gnashing their teeth when Gage obviously has zero malice towards those that can't make ends meet. He's just trying to point out that this is essentially a smaller scale version of complaining that Bugattis are expensive lmfao. YGO is a luxury product flat out, It's literally cardboard and ink that cost like 5¢ to manufacture. Made expensive by the level of design, context and brand, much like name recognition clothes or shoes, fruits, watches, modern art, etc. in fact compared to many other luxury products it's really cheap. Not to mention, you get a lot more out of YGO than most luxury goods, especially for the money. Granted, as a Bilingual American born abroad in Japan I'm aware that there are some pretty huge cultural gaps between me and normal Americans, raised in the west, but I just don't get this one. Besides everyone hating on gage is bad for the soul

[@FanOfKOTOKO]

Farfa is more or less correct but the scope might need to be tuned. YGO is too expensive if you want to play constructed with staples, but there exists a supposedly very large casual audience that probably doesn't invest much into their decks, and this is more or less true with many other games. WotC and GW more or less estimates that around 75~85% of players will basically never regularly play at a hobby shop and are relatively low investment compared to those that do regularly play at that hobby shop. Unless/until you grow into embracing it as a serious hobby to invest money into, YGO/MTG/etc. is nigh-unjustifiably expensive for most new entrants into a local semi-competitive scene when you're looking at basically a gaming console or two per deck.

[@luminous3558]

I think that a ton of the staple non engine cards are way overrated and can easily be replaced. The staples that matter are mostly ED pieces you go through consistently like accesscode. Your deck will be worse but playable. People even have played fieldspellless tear on a budget and it can perform.

[@SatanicWren]

Its really not though. If you are going to locals you can make a perfectly workable deck that you can top with for really cheap. Hell, in my time playing Yugioh on a budget of 100$ a year for around 3 years I made top 4 at 30 person locals almost every time. And my locals is fairly competitive.

[@KingKafei]

@@SatanicWren you guys must have some nice locals then, cause every damn local I've been to in both NY and FL is competitive meta sweat fest

[@SatanicWren]

@@KingKafei My locals is mostly meta as well.

[@dontmisunderstand6041]

The problem with that is, it doesn't matter how much of the audience are casuals with suboptimal decks if those casuals aren't getting together to play with other casuals.

[@absolutionveil8632]

"Weird hill to die on, but at least you're dead." Is the quote for Gage this week.

[@TheElly750]

Ngl master duel really helped me come to terms with the facts that i will NEVER spend the money necessary for an actual competitive deck in the TCG. I got bills and student loans to pay. Oh and also great series btw

[@Randomguy547]

I'd watch this as a 90 minute podcast if you'd upload the convo unedited, even if no one was lying just hearing the 4 of you discuss is really interesting.

[@CaramelFrapple]

Gage using Droplet as a comparison was hilarious because Droplet is like the poster child for why Yu-Gi-Oh is so much more expensive. A card like Pot of Duality was $100+, then a year later got a reprint as a tin promo and instantly dropped to $10-20 overnight. Droplet was $100 for a year, then it's first reprint (excluding the OTS Ulti which is almost impossible to find by design) was as an extreme short print in Brothers of Legend, which did almost nothing for it's price, then it was AGAIN an extreme short print in Duels from the Deep which still has it over around 25-30 almost 2 years after it's first print

[@dariuspenner2528]

Droplet has seen consistent meta play for 2.5 years. There has yet to be a format where Droplet isn’t at least in your side, if not main. Compare that to Duality which really wasn’t as ubiquitous as Droplet because some decks couldn’t get over the special summoning restriction. It’s also not Konami that controls the secondary market. A prime example of Konami being overtly pro-player while the players insist on making the game inaccessible is Ash. It maintained a $20 price point even after Duel Devastator and the Soul Burner SD guaranteed a copy of it. If you wanted a print that wasn’t Ash Blossom and Joyous Feet or the common print then you were still paying $30-$40 apiece, even with those incredibly accessible reprints. Droplet is also a fantastic example of accessibility now versus years ago. I paid $140 apiece for Droplet. The first reprint dropped the price down to about $80-$90. The next reprint dropped it down to about $40. Now the card is sitting at $25. You can pick up a full play set now for half what I paid for a single copy despite the card being just as relevant today as it was back then because it’s functionally impossible to power creep. Staples (including extra deck staples like Accescode and Apollousa) used to cost well over $1000 on their own. Go look at prices on TCGPlayer and see what it costs now for those same cards. The entire point Gage was making is that staples have historically been the barrier to entry, that staples are transferable to every single deck you’ll ever play, and that staples have never been as cheap as they are now.

[@rafflez8961]

@@dariuspenner2528 ​ @Darius Penner Dude actually just used konami and "pro-player" in the same sentence lmao. The thing is, konami does mostly control the secondary market. Just because they don't set the prices directly doesn't mean they don't intentionally print to influence the market. Droplet has consistently been released in high rarities to preserve its price; it was shortprinted and thrown into a garbage set to sell it because nobody wanted the set in an effort to keep the price high, and yeah, it's nowhere near as relevant as it was. Same with baronne. Just because "they used to be more expensive" isn't an excuse for garbage print policies. People praise the "aggressive reprint policy", but we wouldn't need 30 reprints if they just did it right the first time. In the height of spright's dominance in the ocg, wanna guess how expensive the most expensive card was? 9 dollars. Until the 9th reprint, you couldn't even get a single blossom with that. It's crazy what printing a common rarity copy in a set does to the prices. I wonder why cards like perrelino don't have common prints...

[@SpencerCJ]

@@dariuspenner2528 The point is that these cards are getting lateral printings so Konami can make as much cash as possible while the card is still usable, it took years for Ash to get a reprint that made it budget affordable but that was after 3 other priniting all of it at a high price. Its much worse not with droplet getting multiple printing all at crazy high levels

[@Kalyzery]

And this is why we rejoice when we find a pot of greed in cimos hand.

[@sessyllama7548]

CIMO WAS RIGHT

[@snowna5196]

I don't get Gage's argument. If you are introducing someone to the game, the first thing shouldn't be to tell the person to spend 300 dollars on staples THEN you MIGHT have fun. How is it that person's fault to quit the game after not liking a deck? Why should you expect a person to switch to a different deck when their first experience was not what they expected? There should be a product that can easily get people into competitive without having to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars, maybe like a deck with all common rarities or something.

[@FanOfKOTOKO]

I've seen people like him in other games and hobbies, especially ones that have been around for years, where they're so deep into the hobby that they cannot readily empathize with a new entrant.

[@THE_BASED_GOD]

The problem is that half of Gage's argument isn't even answering the question at all. Half of what hes saying is that its cheaper than it used to be, which doesn't mean its affordable. YGO still isn't affordable regardless of how prices have gone down.

[@mateusrp1994]

His argument is that, archetypes come and go but staples are forever. If you don't like an archetype and want to try a new one, if you sell your archetypal cards and keep the staples, you can just use the same staples on the new deck so you only have to worry about buying the new archetypal cards, and you can do that for every new archetype that comes. The real problem with that argument is that it doesn't make Yugioh decks cheaper, you're just frontloading half the price of every future deck you ever make, and those staples can go for a lot of money. If you go by the buying a house comparison other comments made, its like trying to make your monthly installment payments cheaper by paying half the house's price upfront.

[@hozus.7330]

@@THE_BASED_GOD The question was phrased as "Is YGO *becoming* too expensive", so I think it's fair to interpret it as "cheaper than it used to be".

[@THE_BASED_GOD]

@@hozus.7330 eh, maybe. Still think gage is completely missing the point regardless.

[@MrLionniol]

Gage: "Just stop being poor lol."

[@wayofdaweeb3997]

The peasants and lords argument that Gage comes up with regarding card prices hurts to hear, even as somebody who can afford the game at the highest level. There's nobody who should justify card prices being as high as they are because it creates such a steep barrier of entry. It's self defeating to tell people who can't afford the game that they should get over it when you are also getting ripped off for buying cards with massively inflated prices. It's a mindset that only benefits collectors, shop owners, and resellers while being detrimental to the entirety of the player base. We shouldn't be glad that decks are only $800 because decks shouldn't be that expensive to begin with.

[@jaedonabbott4430]

Excellently put. It’s a classist as fuck take, and he’s either actually dumb or has drunk enough of the koolaid that he’s willing to broadcast the dogshit opinion that “dragon ruler format was SO bad so a couple grand to get started you should just suck up” is so goddamn idiotic. If anything we should want ANY competitive activity to have the lowest barrier to entry possible but have a high skill ceiling. Yu-Gi-Oh is a fun hobby that can be played competitively. Half the time people don’t even KNOW if they’ll like the competitive scene before trying it, and the way to find out (rather than just being good at the game) is by shilling out money for “staples first” and hope it’s not a low diversity format. Being rich isn’t the same as being skilled but based on Gage’s argument and prog performance I’d bet he’d be shocked if you told him that.

[@haruhirogrimgar6047]

His winging about Droplet legitimately sounded like he was upset he couldn't sell his copies for over $100 anymore rather than happy it is about 25% the cost it used to be.

[@TheFunfighter]

Right?! Sure, I COULD afford to drop 1k on any hobby I have right now. But dude, I don't want to. It's fcking cardboard, that can become a fancy firestarter at the drop of a new banlist. It surely isn't conductive to getting people into it with lower budgets, let alone kids. When I was a teen I had a Lightsworn/DAD chaos deck worth a couple hundred, and after I rolled everone in school, people stopped playing YuGiOh there. And I understand why. Having to make such a massive investment to be allowed to have fun is just prohibitive. And it's not you who decides how much you have to spend, it's the people you play against, unless you are fine with losing by default.

[@lordofgarbageprogenitoroft4147]

Get a job

[@orga7777]

Prices are not really inflated. Supply and demand economics doesn't care about your feelings on the matter. If you want things to change, you need to go to the source. Konami is the one who dictates rarities and pull-rates. Not the sellers of the singles.

[@SlashtheHedgehog7]

I knew as soon as this topic came up that Gage wasn't the imposter because I've seen him fight with people on Twitter about this 😂😂

[@thbeeman6300]

That makes me remember how I bought a madolche base before chocolat a la mode was reprinted... The base alone was 300 bucks, add to that the staples such as ash, nibiru, pankratops and evenly matched and you got yourself a 900 bucks rogue (at best at the time) deck ! But I loved it anyway.

[@TheKABE09]

I mean, those who have seen a single twit by Gage could tell he is not the impostor

[@calebmorales6288]

Ima pause on the Gage topic and just say that as a super casual yugiboomer who doesn’t know how to link summon, this series is incredibly educational for me and helps me feel like I can actually play modern YuGiOh some day…. JK, i really can’t spend $1,000 on 30 situational cards that rotate in and out of playability. Have you seen the current US mortgage rates? But that’s totally my fault because I’m not dedicated enough to the game😂

[@muse6815]

Farfa flashing the stacks towards the end.

[@Spoon8lld]

Sometimes I feel bad for Gage in prog. Then videos like this come out

[@CD-R]

"just pay the money! then you can can play yugioh." -Gage

[@SethCurryGoat]

Farfa flexing his War Rock Mountains was funny af 😂

[@LordParaDax]

I love that Nadir just has his war rock mountains at hand at all time

[@garethm9523]

I love how Farfa says to gage players want to play the game when they're new. What does Gage do? Double down on buying staples. New player: "oh boy! I can't wait to win with 12 hand traps, 9 board clears and 19 floodgates but with no win con" Farfa new player "B.A best deck"

[@SirJorb]

I want to see an episode where the imposter's hard to pin down because all of them seem to agree with each other and have the same (stated) opinion. It would also be fun to see a twist where there's an episode with multiple imposters, to counter that first episode. Just imagine there's an episode where all four of them are imposters and none of them realize until they all go 'yeah I was the imposter' at the end.

[@FaolanKitekaze]

I felt that statement about bad decks having expensive cards. Galaxy/photon is one of my pet decks and photon lord is still $40 for no good reason

[@jest5837]

I'm actually planning on buying some cards this month so this is gonna be interesting. The last time I bought yugioh cards was when I was a kid and it was x sabers.

[@RealKingChief]

Damn you might be around my age

[@lambdadelta3119]

Only thing I learned from this video is that Gage is the enemy of the proletariat

[@freshdope1234]

dude comes from money just look at his videos

[@yu-gi-broke8823]

I mean it's pretty obvious he grew up swimming in money, he doesn't even try to act like he grew up in a normal household

[@solar_rifle]

I feel like the argument of "You don't NEED to run the most optimal staples/decks to complete even at a local level" is for a majority of the player base completely false. Unless your locals runs Heart of the Underdog format you WILL encounter people who play the top tiers and treat locals as a prize support farm (I don't necessarily blame them though, gotta recoup costs somehow) so while TCG has made strides with reprinting staples as of late, the overall investment to complete beyond kitchen table yugioh keeps rising.

[@nahte123456]

My issue with that argument is that "compete" is not "win". If you're investing into Yugioh right now you really shouldn't win for a while, you have to practice and get familiar with the game first, and that's if you're that dedicated to winning tournaments at all. As someone that largely fell out of actively playing I promise you if you give me the strongest Tear deck ever I'll still lose at a locals because I have no CLUE how to play right now. To me "compete" is just you can play a few games without getting stomped here and there.

[@haruhirogrimgar6047]

Yeah, you really have to luck out with locals. If you only have paid OTS nights with a bunch of engineers playing max rarity everything. No cheap or casual deck is escaping. If you have a free Monday tournament where no one plays a deck that can put up more than 2 interruptions. Have a blast. Like, I sort of want to play a retro format ala Edison or HAT. But the only retro format in my city is Goat and I would sooner jump off a bridge than play that format.

[@luminous3558]

You dont need droplet, you might not even draw it. People obsess over minmaxing so hard when you sometimes just gotta play what you have. Tear without the fieldspell has had success as a budget option.

[@iamabucket13]

@@nahte123456 "compete" is not "win", but "compete" IS "win sometimes". If you get curbstomped every game you play are you really competing?

[@darkanddolly16]

I love how their room background get more expensive the worse the takes get.

[@niklask.4050]

Damn I got actually mad at Gage. Has he ever heard of people that don't have a few hundreds of dollars to spend for staples alone? Just like Coder said, after that they don't even have a deck. They have staples, great, but they need a core, which will still cost quite a bit. He is all like "yeah you gotta pay big first and then you can pay a little less", while that is the exact issue: Not everyone can pay big, which means that it is not affordable. He seemingly can't grasp the concept of "having no money to spend on half of cardboard crack".

[@bl00by_]

Yk that you can play online right?

[@tobyhopkinson6921]

he reeks of someone thats never been poor

[@haruhirogrimgar6047]

@@bl00by_ Playing online sucks "ss. Yugioh is only fun when it is an outlet for socialization. Socialization you will only really get from going down to a locals with a physical deck.

[@bl00by_]

@@haruhirogrimgar6047 To me it's the exact opposite lol

[@ffnoob5796]

I have to say the editing on this video was fire! I’ve not looked away from discussion video because all the faces, cuts, and zoom ins have me mesmerized.

[@banmonsterg.8245]

I think we've sorta... lost that discussion of "budget alternatives" in the last 3 years. Like Farfa mentioned, they still exist with something like Chalice over Droplet, but I haven't seen anyone talking about budget play in a while. The one Gage argument that I hadn't really considered before is that the demand for the game has gone up. If we compare YCS attendance at Pasadena and Dortmund to the biggest events of 2013, there's an extra 650 people at each event, around 1.4 times more. Now I would hope that it doesn't scale with that number exactly, but if it does, decks around $1000 would be normal. This one was super engaging, absolutely loving this series!

[@eulefranz944]

Already knew that gage had this insanely bad take But i'm always surprised to hear his "arguments" again

[@TheNEPTY]

What a great concept for a series. Well done lads 😊🔱

[@marciamakesmusic]

Gage doesn't seem to understand that "that's just the way it is" isn't an argument. Would have 100% said "that's just the way it is" to French starving peasants who wanted to revolt LOL

[@waskithonugroho3955]

i used to sympathize with gage now i'll gladly join cimooooo team

[@stevencarle6442]

Usually these takes are fun, but man it is actually just upsetting hearing Gage’s take. Truly mind blowing how out of touch it sounded.

[@crusaddy]

Gage has a point if you are already invested in yugioh. But for new players he is beyond capping

[@luminous3558]

Even then there will always be a new staple dropped on your head and at the current rate its gonna be 100$ per copy. Like if thrust turns out to be playable then thats gonna shoot up to the moon. There used to be buy-in periods in yugioh where everything just got reprinted into the dirt and you could actually buy all the relevant staples at that point in time for a very favorable price. In recent times however staples just gradually become cheaper like with droplet and due to demand and lack of supply they soon rise up again.

[@ducky36F]

@@luminous3558 they keep putting every staple reprint into secret rare slots as well, makes them very hard to get.

[@vxicepickxv]

@@ducky36F I got my ash Blossom and my Ghost Belle for future Metas because I felt the 3 structure decks were that good.

[@dariuspenner2528]

Staples have literally never been cheaper. I bought Droplet at $140 apiece, Accesscode at $120, Lightning Storm at $60 apiece, Ash at $45 apiece, and Imperm at $30 apiece. Totals to $945 over several years. Droplet is now $25, Accesscode is now $20, Lightning Storm is $10, Ash is $5, and Imperm is $10. That same list of cards that are just as relevant now as they were back when I initially bought them is $170. The other thing to keep in mind is that Konami doesn’t control the secondary market. Ash still maintained a $20 price point after Duel Devastator and the Soul Burner SD reprints despite those being guaranteed. Mega tin reprints have been historically dirt cheap, which makes Prosperity being $45 an anomaly and the fault of the players selling these cards. That said, these cards have been reprinted enough that they’re accessible to new players. Gage is 100% correct with the game being more accessible now than it’s ever been and that the only real barrier to entry (being staples) is the cheapest that it’s ever been.

[@beriasims1869]

@@dariuspenner2528 I mean that's if you're in the US or Europe but if you're anywhere else a main deck can cost up to a month's salary and that's absurd. So yes it is better than before but it doesn't mean it's affordable.

[@europaboi]

Farfa hasn't been to a local in a while. Sky Striker is usually a good local deck, but everyone plays spright bystial or Tear-Ishizu

[@tandapanda7222]

I guess it depends on the local, the one I used to go to pre-COVID had maybe one or two people playing high tier but most played something more rogue or random. It was a social event more than a competition.

[@Yunglex313]

Another thing to note about the long standing Dragon Ruler format. That entire archetype's initial printings were commons in LoTG. For some crazy reason, Konami made a deck that was nuts for it's era entirely common, and getting the main deck together was cheap as hell. Yeah you were gonna spend a lot for the extra, and the support, Sword of the Seven Stars was not cheap, but Super Rejuvenation was a DM Generation card, and the rest was staples or support you could get from the many Dragon related structure decks. Deck had no reason being as easily available as it was. Meanwhile, the other top decks from that era, Fire Fist, Mermail, Bujins, all pricey gets, and this was still before online market places were a more available option. Come to think the advent of just being able to buy cards from marketplaces probably also shot up prices in card games across the board, because availability increased demand, which quickly decreases supply, therefor, shooting up card prices. Makes me wish TCG printed cards like OCG, multiple rarities of chase cards in one set.

[@jabermogwai5996]

Genuine question here, how much the different in price between ishizu tear or other top tier deck in tcg and ocg?

[@rafflez8961]

@@jabermogwai5996 If I recall, the most expensive card in spright in the ocg was $9. Literally $9. A single field spell for us spiked to $95.

[@steelblake]

Gage's take had me rolling man. When you think he can't get any worse, he doesn't push the gas pedal, no. He goes full Nitro and when it's reveal that he believes what he says the car is not burning, it became the fucking Space Challenger.

[@steelblake]

This is why is a good thing that something like MD exist. We can discuss the format hell and back but the fact that makes YGO actually afordable is an inmense plus.

[@Rook_RX]

Well, at least this confirms why Gage can't win in Progression. He can't buy his way out of his cardpool and has to deal with his lot like the poors he hates so much.

[@genm4827]

I always assumed Gage has these takes because he works at a card shop. He’s the one selling and profiting off these expensive cards, so he supports the status quo and pretends it’s reasonable for everyday people.

[@rogaldorn4759]

I think he doesn't work there anymore? The attitude tends to stay though.

[@therranolleo468]

@@rogaldorn4759 even if it has quit, he has profited from nigh impossibly expensive pieces of cardboard before The mindset stays even after the body leaves

[@rogaldorn4759]

@@therranolleo468 No surprise there. Exactly what I said. I'm glad reasonable people are around.

[@arrowsmith000]

I wouldnt even say that. Its an easy fall back answer but you gotta remember, he also collects them himself. Hes shown his collection before and he has so much money tied up in it youd think he was a vendor. In the end I just think he doesnt functionally understand how rough it can be to shell out that kind of money on a hobby because he grew up decently wealthy (or at least hes made it seem that way from things hes said in the past) so throwing in a few hundred for like 8 pieces of literal cardboard isnt too bad a deal.

[@ducky36F]

I think perhaps he’s just to used to being around people will to drop 100s on the collectables and has lost sight of the fact that most players do not enjoy that at all.

[@ChaoticMeatballTV]

Card game prices are a lot like retro game prices: they are completely and utterly ridiculous, even with reprints (or for games, re-releases). Sadly, it's not like you can sail the seven seas for cardboard.

[@andros1486]

you can, you just gotta hit up your trusty friend from china on etsy :) not sure how the yugioh supply is but i started building an MtG cube and relied on a lot of high quality proxies I ordered from sites like that, it works

[@mateusrp1994]

You can play on simulators like EDOPro and now Master Duel, but its not the same thing.

[@TheRealSuperLion]

Top tier decks in pokemon cost around 100-150 dollars (from scratch) because all of the staples are either printed in low rarity or reprinted to death so they're super easy to pick up. Staples are so overpriced on yugioh that it keeps massive groups of people from playing and competing

[@mikhielrearaxin]

Honestly, if Yugioh staples were extremely cheap, I think Yugioh wouldn't be too unaffordable. I just also think that structures should be printed with more modern cards. That way, while you could not take them to the championship, you could play well on a table 500 level. However, with every God as my witness, those staples are HORRIBLY EXSPENSIVE.

[@TihusTalks]

Staples will always be expensive, people are willing to pay stupid amounts for a "must-have" card like they said in the video it is obsene that a playset of 3 super rares sets you back $100 but there are people willing to pay that so that is how much they will sell for.

[@mikhielrearaxin]

@TihusTalks A simple way to make them less expensive is to put them in structure decks. Typically, around half of them are filler regardless. Although, that would be a minimum of a year before that happens as it takes time to definitively find out what is and is not going to be a long-term staple. However, then people might not buy very many boxes. Which would also impact the 2nd market. So komoney won't do it, and some people might even defend it. Another thing that people need to realize is that a bad card and a broken card cost companies the same amount to manufacture.

[@GrandHarrier]

Absolutely love this series as much for the actual discussion that happens as the Among Us format.

[@sanjitps]

Gage truly is the Crypto/NFT bro of yugioh huh

[@TheSteve5154]

Coder outed himself as the liar, but Gage outed himself as the capitalist.

[@luminous3558]

Honestly really hard one this week. Almost wanted to say gage because he probably wants the game to be even less affordable and the others had reasonable takes.

[@hazamax2139]

It may be because I'm broke AF but bro, it's fucking crazy cardboard can be some expensive. Like, yo, a AAA game on release is what, 60-70? I'm not paying hundreds for a deck.

[@jaedonabbott4430]

Has Gage like, been to college? Or is he just a quietly raging “Grrr work harder so you can afford colorful cardboard” economist? Asking for my own sanity.

[@alxcamara1325]

He has stated that he has a marketing degree, iirc but does fuck all with it

[@rogaldorn4759]

@@alxcamara1325 That's barely education. Arguably worse than losing knowledge.

[@jaedonabbott4430]

@@rogaldorn4759 LMAO

[@alonsoarana5307]

@@rogaldorn4759 you're not wrong, the garbage spouted in some of those entry level courses is astounding, all booking down to: free market good

[@dontmisunderstand6041]

@@alonsoarana5307 There is no self-respecting economist on the planet who would say "free market good" without several paragraphs of caveats and addendums to clarify which specific circumstances make a free market good. That's like, the first thing you learn in any economics course, those caveats that allow the model to function at all. Of course, if previous comments are to be believed, gage got a *marketing* degree, not a degree in economics. So we can assume he has no clue what he's talking about in regard to economics, but has a fairly decent idea of how to trick people into believing obviously stupid things for personal gain.

[@tylerrobertson7919]

The issue is at my locals there are high competitive players, people bought like spright and tearlament and I’m tryna chill playin PK or Striker and I can’t do shit against anyone lol

[@08megamon]

Play dracoslayer

[@TheWizardMus]

I comfortably sit at last place with my Ghostrick, Vaylanyz, and Nephtys builds. I think the most I spend on a deck is $50 and refuse to drop more than 5 dollars on a main deck card and 10 for an extra.

[@SparkShadow212]

I love how Gage's answer basically him failing to realize that, while the game is less expensive than before, it's still fucking expensive. Like, imagine a friend who don't know jack about Yu-Gi-Oh, want to get into it. Then he ask "what deck should I build?" then you answer with "buy staples first, it only costs $300-ish". Wouldn't you think that he would be dissuaded into playing the game? Like for god's sake, I'm not even saying that the game as a whole is expensive. I feel like if you're playing the game casually, then it is pretty accessible. But my point is that Gage's whole argument contradicts the statement that the game is not expensive.

[@eavyeavy2864]

Insaw same argument with mtg pauper and they still think pauper 25$ is costly. It is not about people being poor, you all mid class who want cake

[@SparkShadow212]

​​@@eavyeavy2864 think you're not really getting my point here. His advice was to buy staples or don't play the game. But he also argue that the game is cheap. Staples nowadays are expensive, even with the price drops on some of them. If your advice is to spend hundreds of dollars to even start, that ain't cheap. Also, $25 for a pauper deck is expensive? Who's the idiot that says that? Even people who work minimum wage could afford that. Whoever complained about that is either an idiot or shouldn't even get into TCGs in the first place. Don't group us with that idiot.

[@cod3n4m36]

@@eavyeavy2864 Brain damage

[@SparkShadow212]

@@eavyeavy2864 hey, so how much is Mulcharmys nowadays?

[@JABRIEL251]

lmao Farfa with his 5 decks worth of War Rock Mountain.

[@Picar70]

Gage being cringe huh? Imagine being this high up on the horse and still be known as the `àdd verdant sanctuary with terraforming´'

[@jaedonabbott4430]

😂

[@AilmentX3]

As someone who has built out full branded, yes it is expensive, but most cards are 1.00 at most. The main culprits are staples with not enough reprints or broken cards with no reprints (chimera is 30 dollars).

[@kevinmorris9362]

Yes, I'm totally down to watch MBT's new video at 1:00 in the morning.

[@kevinmorris9362]

Also, need a regular discussion podcast with these 4.

[@KiuhKobold]

I can pay my rent 3 times over with just the staples of a Yu-Gi-Oh deck, and I live in fucking Brazil.

[@joplin4434]

Gage is such a crypto bro at heart

[@chrismegusta]

This is such a great idea. It's like a yugioh podcast, which on paper sounds horrible, like every card game pod, but the gimmick, length and people in this, make it really work.

[@marcoluciani4790]

How do you guys even select the sussy baka imposter without the others knowing?

[@amidalaprin4846]

Probs jillian. That or dire/crushcards

[@amateurwriter0223]

Rebecca (Rebby) MBT manager/assistant

[@zurajanaisephirothda3886]

DM the Editor/ the person who decides the Sus Impostor of the week via Discord

[@marcoluciani4790]

@@cel1125 You must be like, THE funniest guy at parties.

[@rogaldorn4759]

@@marcoluciani4790 As if he ever gets invited to parties. (I don't like parties. Imo, the suck, but I understand the cultural significance. Had the privilege of growing up without too many cultural strings attached to me. Still agree that he's at best a dickhead tho)

[@Glader584]

I just noticed that the monster in the corner has been changing ever single episode, really cool touch

[@sub2guru990]

Fun fact pokemon decks are around 50$ and at most a deck is 150$ at most. This is because pokemon has a huge reprint policy and every supporter/item (spell card equiv of pokemon/staple) has 2 rarity the common version and the bling secret version.

[@sub2guru990]

Im not sure because I dont play ocg but I heard yugioh has that system too in ocg.

[@themrrightleft417]

Ocg is the same. Every card is printed as low rarity and bling if you want

[@Xeroxthebeautiful]

Huge fan of that tactic. It makes the prestige players and collectors happy cause they can chase they're awesome looking special card but rarely completely gatekeeps people who just want to play the game.

[@Weareonenation303]

Its funny how the Pokemon TCG collector market is absurdly expensive but playing the game is affordable. YGO is expensive either way, sad panda

[@Jrpg_guy]

Sometimes even 3 my Friend

[@1hoodie]

Honestly the fact a rogue deck can cost the same as a meta deck is insane to me. Especially in a tier 0 format.

[@hannessteffenhagen61]

Well, like they say the truly expensive stuff are staples because those are almost always high rarity and even when they're not they're still something pretty much everyone wants which just drives the price up. If you already spent like $200 on prospy+bystials whether or not the actual core archetype cards are expensive or not almost doesn't matter.

[@SpencerCJ]

Yepp, this is partially why I've moved to Digimon and MTG. I play mono-white mid range in magic and the deck cost me maybe £120, in Digimon I play Shoutmon X5 while cost me maybe £60. Both of these are in the current meta and preform very well. The last affordable Yugioh deck I got was Branded and even then that needed some extra cards to be fully worth it.

[@DarknessDpa]

I'm not even into the TCG at all but I do like this series because it's intriguing to me to listen to their discussions about things and also this feeling like some sort of podcast which I would definitely watch if everyone here got together and did one.

[@justroll6s]

I sometimes think about buying my favorite Masterduel deck in paper but then I regain my sanity. I like watching Yugioh content on YT and playing MD. I am never gonna play paper.

[@vxicepickxv]

The question asked was not the question debated. The question asked was, "Is it too expensive to play Yugioh?" and the answer to that question is a resounding no. It costs about 12 dollars to play Yugioh. The question debated was, "Is it too expensive to play competitive Yugioh?" which is a more convoluted question.