Growth Inhibiting Toxins In Discus Fish

In this article, we discuss growth-inhibiting toxins and why you should care about them.
Growth-inhibiting toxins are hormones that larger fish release. They release these hormones in nature so that they discourage the possibility of rivalry in breeding.
In other words, the big discus are always the ones that control the breeding population. They can't get displaced because if other fish swim in close proximity to them, they get bombarded with these hormones that restrict the growth of the smaller fish.
These hormones are nature's way of selecting the largest, healthiest fish to stay as the breeding individuals and the dominant genetic material.
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[@juliettedavies7709]

I've kept discus for seven years and I've always noticed that the smallest fish in the tank tends not to grow much. I had no idea this was an actual thing, thank you !!!

[@Coolcars_Reels]

Thanks Gabe, It's good to have you back

[@kashifs786]

MUCH MUCH AWAITED ....... gr8 stuff

[@rungassamydonovan47]

Very informative as always

[@richardlaw2345]

Gabe, always enjoy your vids, look forward to more

[@jojyp]

Really useful information Gabe!!

[@MotorCityAquatiks]

Thanks Gabe

[@bretho011]

Being new to keeping Discus, this is a no BS channel with regard to the needed info to keep these fish.

[@tleekauai]

Very informative…thanks Gabe!

[@beverlyballard2882]

Thank you!!

[@cyberghostanon7758]

Cant wait to see the new space and content

[@blacklabel99able]

Great information, I plan on ordering soon!

[@stevenlau7348]

Thank for the knowledge 👍

[@finkabe]

Thank you Gabe . You are the best

[@bhimnepal3140]

Great video Gabe. Much love from DFW

[@dilshanwijesekera7293]

Very Informative, Thanks Gabe ! 💯💐

[@leekelly4784]

Thank you for the info

[@amilasandakelum1722]

Thanks Gabe!

[@janwillemweeda1952]

Thanks so much for the info. Have a great Christmas and a great new year.

[@philcavallini9657]

Witnessed this and preeched this for many years! Great vid!!!

[@janwillemweeda1952]

Thanks again, Gabe, for your information. Much appreciated.

[@MbunaMarcus]

Loads of amazing info here

[@andrekiesswetter2518]

Awesome insight. Thanks Gabe for sharing this important information with us all. Bless you mate

[@leventcolak1146]

Thank you so much Mr. Gabe

[@NiX_aKi]

Very informative! Thanks Gabe and JWD team.

[@Dwai2764]

Thanks for sharing this information to us... Good information

[@Rafa-lm8gq]

Thanks Discus Sensei !!!

[@Sinakl444]

Thank you so much for sharing

[@1816pinaki]

Thanks Gabe ......

[@saidmilani]

very informative thanks, sir

[@_lucid_one]

I recently experienced this, so true. Thanks again for sharing your insight and expertise!

[@adamcenteno6155]

Congratulations Much love.

[@drScorp1on]

This information is worth gold. Thanks!

[@samanthaguice6452]

Wow thank u so much gabe such helpful information

[@finaganfishhouse]

Wow this explains so much it's not only with discus our goldfish got effected by these hormones smh thanks for such an informative video

[@lacyfins9627]

ive heard of this with gold fish many years ago. Regular water changes are key to growth even if you get them all at once or for some reason have only one. Its a natural mechanism to keep them from outgrowing their environment.

[@Seven7ails]

Thank you 🙏

[@tatertots-n-soup]

Amazing

[@manoharanpadmanabhan9376]

very informative video,, great.. thank you sir..

[@jeffbegley5647]

Amazing video Gabe as always. You give such great info in such great detail. Thanks so much, your just a joy to have in the hobby, especially when it comes to discus.

[@michelhaineault6654]

Great infos Merci

[@michaelshaw8370]

Gabe your extensive experience dedication and love of discus. Shines through. All your advice is sound. Balanced with common sense. Jack Watley made a great choice in putting you in charge of his legacy.

[@elkano721]

This video is extremely helpful, i too went thru that "experiment" with my discus with out knowing it.

[@victorinomanuelgomez2422]

Thanks

[@scottcahala7779]

Great video. I have seen it in my fish room. Wish I could have seen this 30 years ago.

[@bigpickles]

Don't apologize, mate! I really appreciate every minute you put in. Covid also bit me in the butt for 2.5 years, just before I was heading to SEA to start breeding myself. Finally back here and ready to go. Thanks for everything you do, and best wishes. Will no doubt be in touch. Cheers, Gabe.

[@christiheydenrych8799]

Thank you for that information… you really make it so much easier for everyone . You are Awesome, thank you again 🥰🌺

[@danielduckworth48]

Discus is one fish I've never tried but the more I learn from you, the more I think I will add them to my fish room some day. Thanks for the videos.

[@jasonbalmaceda6579]

very interesting ! thanks for this aquarist secret!!

[@theGovnr1]

Glad to see you doing video again, This was another great informative video and I can say I have learned many helpful things since I have been watching your vids. Thank you Gabe for sharing your time and knowledge with all of us.

[@Blimpus]

Gabe, Wow! mind blown! I can't tell you how many times this has happened to me, I could never figure it out, Thank you Sir,

[@subzer0425]

Great videos and a nice refresher on tossing in small with large discus. I'm loving them Altums in the background. Sad I had to sell my group of St. Isabelle Altums a few years back but I think I will be reaching out to you soon after I get my 75 gallon tank set up again.

[@steveallen3845]

So true.

[@njrchagas]

Directly from Portugal. I had the same problem. Thanks Mr. Pozada!

[@loquecallamoslosacuaristas8197]

Nice info

[@DOGMAN-ex4is]

Gabe, thanks for your wealth of knowledge on best practices for raising and keeping discus, seriously thinking of restarting a tank and it definitely will be discus, keep up the good work.

[@alexmahon1]

You are very generous with your knowledge and I would like to thank you ,I always look forward to your vids And learn a lot….thanks again.👍🇬🇧

[@vajirakarunathilaka7181]

Absolutely wonderful topic, I used to have same problem now I realized thanks with my Blessing 🙏

[@carlosdemelo7819]

Thanks bro

[@MyVispi]

Can you please make a video on why discus become shy and hide . What can be done to remove their shyness and become bold and responsive.

[@sentosa10]

Thanks Gabe.. I think I'm going to get back into the hobby. Earl Fitzgerald

[@user-cw7xt3qu2v]

thank you for all your knowledge..Love from Greece

[@JackWattleyDiscus]

🙏🏻

[@arowana0094]

Great advise and I too face teh same situation. All smaller size had the same fate

[@eyezaquatics6175]

This was great learned something new now I know why I have 10 around same size & 3 small ones that won't grow

[@robertoj8950]

Hello Gabe amazing video, long time ago you were going to make a video on how to prep vitamins for discus, I hope you can get time to show us how. Big hugh my friend.

[@tencru]

POR FIN HAS VUELTOOOOOOOOO AUNQUE SEA EN INGLES, MIL GRACIAS!!!

[@stoneysscapes7544]

Great info as usual , Gabe I gotta tell you that I have gained & "retained" more knowledge from every single video and I am always appreciative for new content , so thank you for EVERYTHING YOU DO ! I wish you all the best this Christmas and for your family & for your talented staff @ the hatcheries 💙🌿 Take some extra quality time to really recharge & take care 🪐

[@JackWattleyDiscus]

Thank you. Merry Christmas

[@RyoWatanabee]

Thank you! This information is so useful. I wonder if it’s the same with Angelfish?

[@rasanri2492]

Enhorabuena Gabriel por las nuevas instalaciones.Os deseo mucha suerte

[@JackWattleyDiscus]

Muchísimas gracias

[@krisgordon8199]

I'm really glad that Cory from aquarium co op did videos with you. I've learned so much more about a fish I'll most likely never keep. Bigger fish aren't my thing,but gosh are these fish are beautiful!

[@Runnygraph20]

I just got my first discus and I will keep them from now on..It is my favorite fish ever and not as hard to keep as everyone acts he is in a 46gal bf right now either a 55 or 75 next. I say try it man I love my cichlids

[@tincans0]

Dude! I appreciate the information, I learn more off your channel than any other. I even watched the Spanish ones, and I don't speak Spanish...and I don't even keep discuss, lol. Great content, I just relate the information to the fish that I do keep. Keep making videos, keep up the good fight! You are not falling on deaf ears.

[@jasonbalmaceda6579]

I rewatch his videos just to memorize his decade(s) of experience. Thank you Gabe you make me feel confident in keeping Discus. I’m 6 months in and my 6 discus are thriving! I have two confirmed pairs already(they eat them after hatching ) 🙂

[@prophetoftheilliterate4697]

He has a Spanish channel?

[@ankushkaul6909]

Gabe you are genius. Now going to have a look on my fish tanks as I have no intention to see owls 🦉 growing instead discus. 🤪

[@jonathanparker5375]

Wow. I’m so glad this was brought to the light. I had this problem with some fish but I didn’t understand what was going on as far as hormones or toxins go.

[@sarsvfx]

It happens to every fish except for guppies for some damn reason even mollies swordtails and platies have this problem it affects bettas goldfish angelfish zebra danios tetras but guppies are the hardiest I give them that

[@billausmus5328]

I love them!I love to work there!

[@zulkarnain4004]

Curious to know about the setups of your new hatchery. Please video tape while setting up things as much as you can.

[@richardfrye3509]

Excellent video. Yes I’ve known about this for years. I used to breed Angel fish and had to separate the larger fish so the smaller siblings growth would take off. In spawns with double black angels this was very important. Thank you and I look forward to your next video (videos).

[@hus4781]

Have you ever considered that this happens because larger fish prevent smaller from access to food? Which is called natural selection. There is no fairytale 'toxin', ask any ichtiologist and they will laugh at the very thought of it!!!

[@MacJank7]

I don’t even own discus and I learn tips that help me

[@jasonshewbert1280]

I have always Wondered for many years If there was such a thing as Growth Inhibiting Hormones In Discus or any other Species for that matter. Even in the vast numbers in literatures It rarely mentioned( if any) that there was/wasn't any such Phenomena existed. Now that I am more seasoned giving the 20+ years of keeping Discus and many other Cichlids, now It totally makes more sense that this phenomenon indeed Does exists. I have battled Like so many other hobbyist with Stunting and very abnormal growth rates In Discus, even though All my Discus got the same Daily Maintenance and care. I have had some I could not figure out why they weren't growing like the other Fish that were housed with. I am a firm Believer That Growth- Inhibiting Hormones Does Exist. Thank you Gabe for the Very informative video on this Subject! Jason

[@JackWattleyDiscus]

Enjoy

[@fku232]

Imo that's why you never see big fish in small lakes.

[@hus4781]

Have you ever wondered why this mythical 'toxin' is never mentioned in specialised literature on discus or other fish? Because it doesnt exist! There is absolutely no scientific evidence that something like that exists. Ask any fish biologist and they will laugh at his fairytale. LOL!!! Your smaller fish grow slower because larger fish prevent from access to food. There is always pecking order in discus groups and new fish are always at the bottom of it.

[@JackWattleyDiscus]

No need to wonder. It's not an edible fish, therefore no research money is spent on it. If you don't agree create your own video and enlighten, and prove us all wrong. In the meantime, you don't like the evidence after 28 years of applied evidence. Don't watch. Gabe Posada

[@hus4781]

@@JackWattleyDiscus There is no lack of research on Somatostatin (growth inhibitor hormone). I can think of 30+ large-N studies. None of them proves the existence of a 'toxin' that a fish can release to influence growth of other fish in its environment. GIH is secreted to affect the growth of a specimen that produces it. Other specimen in the same system may choose to release it as well, including younger fish. It is not a matter of me watching or not watching your videos, it is a matter of spreading a myth, which sadly far too many people prone to believe in. There is also no need for me to prove 'you all wrong': science has done it decades ago and any ichthyologist will confirm.

[@soucouyant]

A million thanks for making these videos. They are like golden knowledge. From your explanation of " owl" syndrome, could there ever be a " dwarf " or short body discus?

[@condesdelicafe5982]

Hello - Waiting for more VIDEOS....

[@davidd415]

Gabe great videos as usual thanks 🙏🏻 I think I’m having this problem I have about 15 discus in a 150 gallon I bought them all about the same size 3 months ago about 7 discus haven’t grown at all There eating well 4 to 5 times a day beefheart and live black worms and brine shrimp some doubled and even almost tripled in size and the rest are staying small even though they eat like pigs. My question is that I don’t have room for another fish tank if I leave them in there with the bigger discus will they eventually grow or they will stay small forever ?

[@michalz7807]

wow... excellent material. Didn't know that, but indeed in my water tank I have pair of snakeskins, bought together , where one is now twice as big as the other one. Funny thing is that its the smaller one eating the most of food and still size difference is not changing at all :-) greetings from Poland!

[@joseaguilera8687]

Omg I wished I knew this information😅 it all makes sense now. I have 2 small discus. I love them all the same, though.

[@eliomar210]

Saludo desde vieques Puerto Rico 🇵🇷

[@njbaquatics4827]

I love your channel learnt so much from you. So I got a group of eight Discus currently on the QT next week or two they’ll be ready to go in the display tank. But they’re super shy I can’t even turn the light on without them freaking out all my parameters are zero pH 6.8 QT temperature is 85 which I know is a little hot just trying to speed up their metabolism a little bit to get him to stack some weight on before transfer they will eat pretty much anything I throw at them no signs of any parasites or disease. Any advice would be very much appreciated

[@skobiewan3247]

I'm new to discus, I bought 4 about the same time and then added 2 more a few months later, I don't think they were more than 1.5 inches less than the 4 I fist bought. BUT, now 2 years later the last 2 I bought are smaller than the first 4 I bought.....after see your video it now makes sense....I have another tank I could put the 2 smaller ones in, do you think it would make a difference?

[@edub1170]

Gabe you are the man sir. I have been a long time fan of the channel and I called the store today and spoke with you personally. I did not expect that. I can’t say enough about Jack Wattley Discus A+++ fish and customer service. Lifetime customer here. This business has been around 25+ years for a reason.

[@JackWattleyDiscus]

Thank you.

[@americangoldking]

@@JackWattleyDiscus Lookin g to order some discus fish from you are they available? I like blues reds and yellows

[@JackWattleyDiscus]

@@americangoldking yes. Many are being updated this weekend

[@americangoldking]

@@JackWattleyDiscus Thank you how can I order them I'd like to get five

[@JackWattleyDiscus]

@@americangoldking www.wattleydiscus.com

[@darshakdabhi1616]

Nice video sir Love from india❤️❤️❤️

[@lakhomuhammedkhan7635]

Great sir ,Allah always bless you 🙏. Lot of regards and respects.

[@ericmontoya3447]

Id be a lie if I said I have even hurd of this. But I understand it. And its something I will be aware of,From here on out. Thanks Gabe...

[@se7sblo]

مشكور على المعلومات المفيدة، بالصدفة فصلت الديسكس الكبير عن الصغير. ربي يبارك في اسماكك

[@rushilkaul9762]

Definitely seen dramatic difference in growth for my discus w/r to water changes. How does this work evolutionarily for fish that live in large bodies of water though? I've heard about this effect in goldfish because they've been kept in small containers for thousands of years. But wouldn't any hormone the fish release into the water dilute too quickly to have any effect on other fish?

[@TheCessna150pilot]

Hi Gabe, I was wondering… good maintenance practices aside (water changes, etc.) do you think a product like hypersorb or purigen from Seachem would be a good addition at removing these toxins? I am not really a big fan of using carbon especially in my reef tank.

[@santanuchowdhury1876]

Always knew not to mix small and large discus together but never knew about this hormone thing. Thought the bigger ones would bully the smaller ones and they won't eat properly and wouldn't grow. Thank you.

[@hus4781]

And you are correct. There is no scientific evidence at all in support of that mythical 'toxin'. It simply doesnt exist. This is just a ridiculous fairytale, perpetuated by people who lack even basic familiarity with animal biology!!

[@bradyb2884]

could you make a video going over the care of discus of different sizes going up 1 per?

[@bigpickles]

Thinking of you right now, mate as I see a hurricane coming through. Best wishes!!

[@JackWattleyDiscus]

Thank you. Luckily heading West North West of us.

[@nsane992002]

One subject I’ve wanted to see discussed/studied is the presence of growth inhibiting toxins in fish related to water changes/flushing those out of the water column. I’ve always heard that fish excrete growth inhibiting hormones into the water.

[@JackWattleyDiscus]

But it's constant. So a constant water change 24/7 would have to exist to null the toxins

[@frankschannel2642]

This phenomena is undoubtedly true. I wonder if weekly water changes of 30% or more ("dilution is the solution to pollution") would help combat this phenomena - or if activated charcoal would be effective in removing the hormones from the water column? There's always more questions than answers...but that's what makes it interesting!!

[@user-cv9hs3xu6e]

Hey, this video is fantastic! Immediately explained what was going on in my tank. I'm just wondering how long these toxins remain in the water after you take the largest fishes out? Cheers mate 💙

[@beverlyballard2882]

Wish i could do what you do!