Jak & Daxter - Time Travel Explained!

[@VtnVivi]

Again I'll summarise: -Kor takes a look into the past to see if what Onin said was true. -Had MAYBE set his eyes out for old Jak first (Jak growing up in Haven City he thought). -By going back to Haven, he thought he would end up in the future where young Jak was already sent. He had intended to use old Jak to activate the stone. -Fortunate enough to end up in Haven where young Jak was still present. Since old Jak was corrupted by Dark Eco, he used young Jak; in other words, everything was going according to plan. If Kor had ended up in Haven when Jak was already sent, he would no longer be able to go to the past, because the last rift gate was used to send young Jak and Samos. He was fortunate enough to end up in Haven where young Jak was still present. But WAIT, if Kor and the gang had already used the last rift gate, how come they were still able to use it? We can assume the last rift gate was still in working condition. After the gang followed their destiny and went back, that's when the rift gate got destroyed.

[@Facha234]

VTNVIVI Ok, you could explain the time travel between "Jak and Daxter" and "Jak II". However, at the end of "Jak III", Jak said to his gang something about "I'd like to be called by my really name: Mar", so Ashelin get confused about Jak could be "that Mar" we all hear during the trilogy. Is that true? Is Jak that "Mar"? If yes, How could be him? I'll appreciate a lot if you can make a video about this :D

[@martinbarrettgamer4333]

Santiago Bonelli nun I don't think Jak is mar because they never shown at the end of jak3 that Jak never went back to the pass to build haven city since mar him self build haven city. And Jak said at the end of the 3th game you could called me by my first name mar. I think Jak is name after mar not the mar that build haven city.

[@receptionistwork2172]

I think he is the son of mar though, i may be wrong though. also if Jak 4 ever come out there could be a part where he does go back and builds Haven City.

[@windy3935]

Your quotes are inaccurate, but it should be common sense that Jak is only Mar's descendant, named after him in honor.

[@noebarreto4507]

VTNVIVI ok let's just say the game daxter actually happened if u played or watched gameplay u will see kor told the baron to go with the dark warrior program once jak came through the rift gate wouldn't he know already that jak will be tainted with dark eco?

[@orangexlightning]

Jak 2 honestly has the most straightforward time travel I've seen in a game. It's not really complicated. Jak, Born in the future, sent to the past to grow up and get strong, gets sent to the future, kills Kor, sends his younger self to the past. And it's safe to assume that Kor could've just naturally lived the entire 300 year gap seeing as how he was already the precursor's ancient enemy. Really straight forward.

[@VtnVivi]

Not often I hear people use the term straightforward :P

[@orangexlightning]

@@VtnVivi No I suppose not. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@VongolaXZax]

@@orangexlightning interesting

[@danf1025]

But originally how did his future self send his past self to the past if old jak doesn’t exist yet

[@TheGingiGamer]

isn't 300 years a little too soon for a primitive island civilization to become a massive city-state? Remember Mar is said to have founded Haven City in ANCIENT TIMES. Idk about you but when I think of "ancient times" I think about well over 1000 years ago, not 300.

[@jthogan7642]

It's a simple causal loop. The OG crew get shot into the future, meet young jak and young Samos who get sent back in time to safety, where they grow older, daxter and Keira come into the picture, and then do it all over again.

[@VtnVivi]

Exactly!

[@AAA310]

Jt Hogan but i think what most fans want to know is.....how did it START? The loop had to have began somewhere. Meaning something different had to have happened to cause the loop to begin. Like Jak didnt send his younger self back the first time, after that he did and it became repetitive. U get me?

[@Villian619]

Some people believe that you can't change the past. So this loop didn't have a beginning. It's just the way it has always been and will always be.

[@SasukeSharingan24]

Thats a fact , i’ll tell u what happened jack and samos got kidnapped from the past and sent to the future

[@CbriaRules1]

No one knows how it started

[@re_b3rt389]

Time travel always manages to hurt my brain

[@VtnVivi]

I know :(

[@sciencetheory2818]

Hard to get round it

[@ChamChamRealSmooth]

I love how throughout Jak 2 itself, they reference the time travel and hint that the boy is Jak. Samos: "So, this is how it happened..." Samos: "Find yourself, Jak!" Errol: "We've been waiting for you." Pecker: "Onin says it's good to see you again, Jak." Jak: "But we've never met before?" God, I love this game.

[@VtnVivi]

Indeed!

[@rongorongo1187]

Samos also calls the boy "young Jak" in the final cutscene of Jak 2, along with Jak telling him to "Avoid any wumpbee nests on his 9th birthday"

[@markreyes7454]

Oh you see what he said to Onin? My theory I came up with ever since I played jak 2 for the first time back in...when was it? 03 or 04 i believe...anyways, my theory has always been that Onin is the bird lady. But then, years later like around between 2015-2021, I made another theory for online, which is that she's a descendant OF the bird lady. But I feel like my first theory makes way more sense because if she was a descendant of the bird lady then how would she know jake? Now that doesn't make sense. But what also doesn't make sense is how she survived for that long.

[@AlrightThere]

Bit late to the party but also when Young Jak hands old Jak the security pass. It really focused on them touching hands.

[@cooperm3605]

the way I play jak and daxter is I play through jak two, jak and daxter precursor legacy, jak two again (for story purposes), jak 3 and then jak X. Jak and daxter the lost frontier should never have existed.

[@VtnVivi]

Oh :O

[@IsaiasSoldier2]

We dont talk about lost frontier

[@iloveketchup20]

Wow

[@m0thaphucka638]

Do you mind explaining more why you play in that order

[@nocturnalpie]

You should be playing through Jak 2 again in HERO MODE. Cause now you're a true hero.

[@justanotherarrogantinterne1955]

This is basically what happened without any real explanation of why it happened. -Young Jak sent to past by older self -Grows up and goes through events in 1st game -Goes through rift -Defeats Kor and sends younger self to past -Goes through events of Jak III, Jak X and that other game which doesn't even deserve mentioning. -??? (Jak 4 and we'd know more).

[@VtnVivi]

Pretty much :P

[@jthogan7642]

The best premise for an actual Jak 4 would be Jak and Daxter and whoever else, being sent back in time after the events of Jak 3 to some actual time between leaving Sandover Village and getting to Haven City, which is when that Great War must have happened that they talk about in Jak 2 and 3, and that is where we would see the events of Jak coming to be known as Mar.

[@raymanspy95]

@@jthogan7642 I know this was 2 years ago, but how could Jax X happen if and when jak 4 ever is made if he gets sent back after the events of Jak 3?

[@ChamChamRealSmooth]

Let's pretend TLF isn't canon.

[@wd4019]

we need jak 4 for the answers.

[@VtnVivi]

Hey I mean we might never get the answer even in a new game.

[@alexdrez4505]

Oh nonono here: Jak is born in haven city and he meets older jak (jak2) and older jack sends him and young Samos 300 years back in time when haven city hasn’t been built yet, they live in sand over village for years, after jack and daxter have got all of the power cells they travel 300 years into the future(a couple months before young jack gets sent to the past) when they arrive in the future jack gets touched by dark ego and explores haven city built by the ancient Mar(Future Jak), jak saves haven city, defeats Kor and sends his younger self back 300 years into the future(Loop) After jak has saved haven city and sent his younger self to the past to become him he gets banished to the wastelands (jak3) and meets his father (Damos) after saving haven city again and the wastelands jak continues his journey in jak4?????? After some events jak decides to travel back in time to the past to sandover village after jak (jak1) has traveled to the future and he calls himself by his true name(Mar) and he builds haven city from the ground by sandover village after years of construction when haven city is finally built jak is old and hides the Precursor thing in his tomb before he eventually dies. That’s the end of Jak LOL

[@wd4019]

this is clever indeed.

[@sciencetheory2818]

Alex Drez very

[@therivaldi8567]

@@alexdrez4505 that's what I think but still complicated, why jak would go to the past again.. (destiny?)

[@pinstripecool34]

Man I remember first finding out about the time travel thing at the end of jak 2 as a kid it blew my freaking mind

[@fless2128]

keep making jak and daxter videos. Favorite games ever. This was my childhood and would pay hundreds of dollars for another (real) jak and daxter. Good work. Keep it up

[@LSqre]

PEOPLE MAKE VIDEOS ABOUT JAK IN 2017!?!?!??! OH MY GOD

[@VtnVivi]

Crazy I know O_O

[@user-vr1ki7xy1d]

VTNVIVI I love you

[@MrYngwie88]

And people follow it in 2019 haha!

[@bkkersey93]

Just like San Andreas, Jak and Daxter are legendary.

[@razufakir4684]

And I am watching in 2024

[@jacecotton4190]

The Oracle said that Kor chased Mar through time, and that Mar hid his tracks well. Therefore we can deduce that the "last rift gate" doesn't really mean the last one in existence, it means the last one that Mar went through before founding Haven City, which was all that was between Kor and the last Precursor Stone, his one true goal. You don't really need a whole lot of back and forth or theories involving changing what was implied to have happened in Jak II. Kor went through the gate, Mar showed up, founded Haven City, 300 years later, older Jak shows up, etc. etc. I think Occam's Razor applies in this case. Kor said that this is where it all began, knowing that at some point Jak did defeat him, which is how young Jak went back into the past. However, he misconstrued the idea that Onin believed Jak needed to be untouched by dark eco to defeat him. On the contrary, it's revealed in the spin-off Daxter game that Onin was actually the one who informed the Baron of Jak's arrival, knowing that he needed the dark powers to defeat Kor, which Kor himself did not know, thus his "original plan" that he thought all was going according to was foiled. Also, no reason to believe Kor is immortal just because he can live for really long. He's not human, so he isn't necessarily restricted to human lifespans. That said, he lived for far longer than just "hundreds of years", at least if we're to believe that the "dark leader" the Oracle referred to was indeed Kor and not someone else.

[@VtnVivi]

Thank you for sharing! I purposely did not talk about Mar because that's whole complete different subject. True, Kor did chase Mar through time hence the phrase "you can't hide from be boy". Like I mentioned, Kor's presence at the rift gate wasn't really explained, it just left room for speculating. During the first time loop, Jak going to the future, Kor had no idea who old Jak was. Now in the second time loop, the one in which Onin predicted old Jak, Kor found out who Jak was. The way he was talking to him "It's you Jak!" makes it seem like he found out about this in this second time loop. So if Kor was chasing after Mar through the rift gate in Jak 2, sure we can say he was looking for Mar. If so, Kor later ended in a future where Haven City was founded, later to realise that Mar founded the city and hid the precursor stone. After all, Mar mysteriously died, meaning Kor wasn't involved in his death. Like you said, he goes through the rift gate trying to look for him, ends up in a future where Haven exists but with Mar dead.

[@GavleProdxtions]

But Jak is Mar, i'm confused. Mar had to have originated and founded haven city then seen a potential threat or a flaw and needed to go back in time to fix it so he found his young self and sent him even farther into the past to grow up? Where Mar would then die but because he basically duplicated himself he lives on to fulfill his destiny? It's like deja vu with Denzel Washington.

[@Zanoab]

You forgot to note that the group panicked and accidentally launched themselves when Kor appeared in the rift gate. When metalheads began invading, they were calm and it would be possible for them to figure out how to close the gate, clean up the damage, and possibly get answers from Samos (Jak would get more training as well as experience in fighting metalheads before going to the future). Samos also never says a single word about the future until it was clear that the future is now written in stone. I like to believe there are two different time "loops" and they cross each other like a figure 8. In the first "loop", we get a fully trained older Jak going into the future when he wants to. This Jak is armed and ready to lead the war against Kor. Kor doesn't like his odds against this older Jak and tries to find answers. By appearing in the past, he creates the second "loop" where Jak enters the future pre-maturely with no knowledge of what to expect. The first "loop" Kor is then defeated and Samos and young Jak is sent to the past without knowing Kor altered it. In the second "loop", we have the common Jak and first "loop" Samos going into the future without preparation. First "loop" Samos has no knowledge of second "loop" future and is easily captured. Jak is unprepared and chaos ensues. Second "loop" Kor doesn't feel threatened by this Jak and didn't change the past as badly as his first "loop" counter-part. Jak manages to defeat Kor and second "loop" Samos and young Jak is sent to the past. Second "loop" Samos is now aware of the greater threat which increases the chance of creating the first "loop" rather than another second "loop". I feel my theory also fixes the chicken and the egg problem. There are many things that could happen but they all would either being the first or second loop which would then complete itself. Maybe in the first timeline, Kor wasn't defeated and Samos fled to the past with young Jak. If Kor searched for young Jak, we get the second loop and if not, we get the first loop.

[@tylermoulder64]

This confused me enough to make sense

[@Eljerry9238]

I’d would be great to see the scenario in which JAK is fully trained before stepping into the rift to face KOR as a DLC spin off kinda a thing Or at least a little short film of what could’ve been Such a cool thought

[@BlueKnightV20]

I know this video is roughly 2-years old but I thought I'd bring it up. There I believe is a type of time travel that's not used that much in any media. And that is if someone (in this case we'll say Jak & Daxter) was sent to the future, but they still affect the time after they already left. As if they never left in the 1st place. I know it doesn't make a lot of sense (I can see why this version is barely used) but it's how I've thought of the whole Mar thing with Jak. But yes I agree with what you said and also about the time loop.

[@Lunocity]

Another theory could be that Jak 2 could could be the first loop essentially In the future young Jak is born. As Jak 3 explains he is brought up in Haven city to be a weapon. The metal head war still happens, but without adult Jak showing up, as he doesn't exist in this time. The baron gets the last precursor egg and without adult Jak to stop him, he successfully detonates it. Onin could see that if Jak grew up, he could beat Kor and the Baron, thus saving everyone. She tells the underground this and in a last ditch effort they send Jak and their leader, Samos, to the past. Kor sees them escape and jumps into the rift gate, and while he does see our Jak, he is swiftly shot to the future again. From there Jak & Daxter 1 and 2 happen. By the end however, Samos remembers that to keep time from paradoxing, they need to send young Jak and young Samos to the past. This would explain how the loop was created without causing a paradox.

[@VtnVivi]

Ahh nice theory!

[@Qwarktastic]

Jak 2 has most confusing storyline only losing to BioShock Infinite

[@VtnVivi]

Tell me about it.

[@NotOrdinaryInGames]

I never saw it like this. Since time travel is (supposedly) pure fiction, there are several rules it can abide by. Time loops can work in different ways, and I prefer this: important events in history, events that are needed to make the future happen, MUST take place. Even if time travel is involved, and past is altered, those important events will happen anyway, maybe differently, but will still find a way to happen. The way I saw it, is that metalheads invaded NORMALLY (no time travel), Haven City got built, young Jak was born, sent into the past to train, to then return. Kor SOMEHOW finds out about Onin's plan, and finds a way to get to the past, to stop the it. He ALMOST succeeds, but Jak uses the rift rider anyway. However, Jak then gets captured by Praxis, who was tipped off. That is where Kor succeeds. Jak is captured, and altered. Now, there is no adult Jak to fight Kor (with whatever superpowers the precursor stone offered), and young Jak is obviously too young to stop him also. HOWEVER, the IMPORTANT EVENT of YOUNG JAK AND SAMUS TRAVELING TO THE PAST, still happens. The events of Jak 1 happen after this time loop already happened, at least once. Also, I believe Kor stayed in the past, and got old by living the 300 years, waiting. What is important to remember, however, is that the final product is not necessarily what was planned form the start. If you replay Jak 2 and 3 several times, you notice ideas and dialogues that hint at many other things, but lead nowhere. It should be obvious that Naughty Dog had grander plans for Jak and Daxter, and some of their ideas ended up scrapped. It is entirely possible that the plot of Jak II still has pieces of a previous draft of story from Naughty Dog's writers. That was a lot of text, wasn't it?

[@VtnVivi]

Very interesting stuff you got there. The metal head war always happened, the invasion always happened anyway. Kor existed somewhere during the times of Sandover village, he was hiding we can say. The Kor we saw was simply from the future, trying to see if what Onin said was true. Kor was an ancient enemy to the precursors, so Kor starting everything from Sandover village is not necessarily true. He did send some metal heads, all that did is slightly alter the future in a way which wouldn't really ruin his plan. Let's just say he added more metal heads into the past, that's simply how I see it. The fact that he said ''you can't hide from me boy'' tells us that he was looking for someone, Jak. If Kor had stayed in the past, that means there would be two versions of him if we go with the idea that he existed 300 years ago, which he did if we go with the metal heads war. About what you said, the loop happening at least once, perhaps yes. The first loop happened without Kor looking into the past. For the second time, Onin predicts and Kor peaks into the past by also slightly changing the future.

[@bleachfreak1256]

From what I gathered, Haven City is the future of The Precursor Legacy's (Jak 1) world. So in the beginning of Jak 2, they are sent to the future. However it turns out that Jak was actually originally from Haven City and sent back to the past, thus making the events of TPL take place in the past, and in the beginning of Jak 2 he was actually returned to his present. As for whether Jak is the Mar, or just an ancestor by the name of Mar, it's not exactly made clear. Ashelin makes a comment along the lines of "Wait a minute, Jak is Mar? The Mar?" which would indicate that he is Mar, but then the series ended before they could do anything to confirm or deny that. I personally like to think he is the actual Mar of legend.

[@VtnVivi]

1. Correct 2. I will make a video talking about Mar, I purposely did not talk about him. All I'm going to say, I believe that Jak IS NOT Mar. There was a huge debate in the past.

[@JustALilBrit]

VTNVIVI Mar story is very interesting. But I want to hear about it. Maybe jak could be the next person who become the next mar. so much questions... Like... Who jak mother? Will jak take his father place and become king? Why jak so good master every ego powers? We need jak 4! I really hope that one day that dream will become reality.

[@icen5336]

he wouldnt be going to his exact present cause little jak is there as a child, so is the time loop the exchange of old jak for little jal in each loop?

[@VtnVivi]

I know, so many interesting stuff to cover :D

[@VtnVivi]

Old Jak and Samos time travel to Haven City, where they have to go through the same thing over and over. So yes, young Jak is sent to Sandover, grows up and goes to Haven rinse and repeat.

[@2barfootball]

I don’t know if anyone has ever mentioned it but I like how Jak used to look in the first game instead of the last two I think they should have kept him the same except clothing differences and I thought keeping him mute made him more unique and relatable!

[@ProjectDarkour]

been waiting for a vid like this for a while glad to see a break down of it :D

[@VtnVivi]

Glad you enjoyed!

[@Jamfrog35]

My brain does not hurt that much... it makes sense in a way. I watch too much doctor who.

[@VtnVivi]

Ohh, what a relief XD

[@Robotik_X]

My G

[@Thebudditch]

I think the pre set coordinates were for Jaks birthday. Remember he's been in prison for 2 years when we first see young Jak, who has just started walking.

[@marcuswehle1833]

For the first 5 minutes of this video pretty much summed up what I was commenting on when I commented on your other timeline video.

[@RSwizard101vids]

you forgot in Daxter after the last boss fight he says my master will be waiting outside, and who was waiting out there with young jak at the start of jak 2 after you escape? Kor

[@yenice3652]

All this time stuff actually makes sense. What's confusing is why Jak was pumped with dark eco. And why we never see a young Keira. Anyway, after the time loop had happened multiple times, I think Kor bribed the Baron to immediately inject Jak with Dark Eco because Older Jak kept beating him using the Precursor Stone. He assumed that he would easily kill Jak and get the Stone. However, a few pea shooters from Sig , Krew, and Torn somehow stopped him lol

[@VtnVivi]

Yep time travel, my brain hurts. Onin played a part in this, telling Erol of Jak's special abilites.

[@perrytheplatypus2001]

We don't see young Keria because she was born in Sandover village, Jak was born in the future in the city and when he and young Samos get sent back Jak lives like a normal child and Samos meets someone and those two have a baby and that baby is Keira. So while Jak and Samos *do* belong in the future, Keira and Daxter are actually from the past

[@MoonThriller]

There was a glitch in Jak 2 (PS2) where you could enter Sandover village. You had to go to scene selection > First scene > take out the disk > put it back in. I always though it was a cool "hack". Yeah the time travel always was confusing but thanks for attempting to clarify.

[@VtnVivi]

I've heard that glitch before :O. Glad you enjoyed the vid!

[@DaxterMaster]

The whole game is a time loop. It actually starts from Jak 2. He just goes to the "future" (which is Young Jak's present). The real Jak did continue through Jak 3 but Young Jak still went to the past to grow up to kill Kor.

[@DaxterMaster]

As Daxter said "The more you think about it, the more it hurts the head."

[@pejnismiggle]

Another thing to add to "Destiny" is that it was Keira who built the time vehicle in the first place, for her past self to discover with Jak, and then in Haven, over the course of roughly 2 and a half years, assemble it back together from her memory/recollection of it. Same thing with all of Mar's creations in Jak 3 for Jak to explore and discover. The whole concept isn't entirely new, Back To The Future set the standard for having a sequence of events always play out and to NEVER disturb those sequences, or else you'd just fade from existence or the fabric of time would rip open and all existence would cease.

[@rowenramnath2016]

I still got this game. I like it when young jak goes to the past. And old jak stays

[@bobbyshewan4229]

JESUS CHRIST MY HEAD

[@VtnVivi]

Boom!

[@bobbyshewan4229]

VTNVIVI That doesn't help LOL

[@VtnVivi]

Haha! Trust me, I was as confused as you are right now.

[@sciencetheory2818]

VTNVIVI loop is very simple so thanks

[@OtterloopB]

Would you kindly not use Christ's Name in vain? It's sinful and offensive. Thank you.

[@vincently1995]

Sandover Village = Old World Haven City = New World

[@fralon8607]

What I can't understand is : The precursor statue in Mar's tomb said that "eons ago" they fought with Hora-Quan (Metalheads) and lost the battle. What I can't understand is when did they fight if precursor have been disappeared before Jak 1 events and there aren't metal heads in Jak 1?

[@VtnVivi]

The battle with Hora-Quan could've happened elsewhere in the universe at that point no?

[@Nayops24]

0:49 ^ Exactly👏🏼

[@WombatXBT]

The fact that NaughtyDog messed with such a messy time travel loop is a testament to how good this story is. In my opinion.

[@VtnVivi]

Oh not often I hear this :O

[@WombatXBT]

@@VtnVivi The time loop has always been a favorite part of the game for me, it brought up so many questions as a kid when I first played.

[@Alex2468ful]

Jak 2 follows the Novac Self Consistency principle. You can’t change anything because it’s already happened. Jak simply used time travel to be able to occupy two spaces at once. His younger self was able to open the tomb and the last precursor egg while his older darker self was able to provide the child self the protection he needed.

[@MrOreo-ey1lf]

I like how Jak has an Uncle 300 years ago...

[@Gatyena]

Funny enough just day before yesterday I found myself thinking about that time travel thing in Jak 2 and boy did my head hurt. So good to know I'm not the only one who get a headache because of thinking that too much. But my conclusion was pretty much the same than yours but you explained it better than me and more clearly. Thanks. And thank you of this great channel. I like your videos. It's fun to watch videos about my favorite games, like Sly Cooper-, Jak & Daxter- and Ratchet & Clank- series, from the guy who seems to be as excited about those games as I am.

[@VtnVivi]

I appreciate the support!

[@noah_rides8260]

It's great to see people still enjoy these games and still play them hopefully that will give naughty dog the idea to make the 4th one

[@VtnVivi]

I feel like ND has no more interest these days I don't know... they're much focused on more matured themed games.

[@xanthrr5948]

Sand over village is haven city in the future and maybe there are metal heads because kor looked through the past and all the metal heads went through? Idk this is my theory

[@VtnVivi]

Something like that yes! I didn't talk about Mar, but perhaps Kor was looking for Mar through time. By doing so, the metal heads destroyed Sandover. Mar hid in a timeline where he founded Haven City. I will dive deeper into this :)

[@stiffmeister3018]

When the rift gate got opened, the metal heads destroyed sandover village

[@atticmichael]

I'm a couple of years late on this, but I've been replaying the games recently, did some research and I'm pretty sure I get the time travel aspect of the game now. I'm also including excerpts from a Wiki on the matter. From what I understand, Jak and the gang are in what we call a Causal Loop (not just a time loop). It's a loop in which a sequence of events is among the causes of another event, which is in turn among the causes of the first-mentioned event. So opening the Rift Portal in Jak 1 unleashed the Metal Heads in the world, which therefore caused the Second Metal Head War. But without the 2nd Metal Head War, Young Jak would have never been sent into the past, because he wouldn't have needed to grow up in order to fight Metal Kor. This phenomenon is also called predestination paradox, which means a time loop in which a time traveler who has gone into the past causes an event that ultimately causes the original future version of the person to go back into the past. Simply put : - 2nd Metal Head War leads to Jak being sent into the past - Jak being sent into the past leads to 2nd Metal Head Wars This is supposed to mess up your brain because the origins of Causal Loops are unknown. A similar example is given in Doctor Who, in which of a time-traveler who copies Beethoven's music from the future and publishes it in Beethoven's time in Beethoven's name. Maybe there is a timeline in which the 2nd Metal Head War happened without the Rift Rider and maybe there is a timeline in which Young Jak was sent into the past without the help of Older Jak, but we can't know for sure. Nonetheless, if this timeline happened, it disappears as soon as the Causal Loop is created. Because from now on, the Metal Heads invades earth following the opening of the Rift Rider and Young Jak is sent into the past with the help of Older Jak. Go read on Causal Loops. It's super interesting.

[@VtnVivi]

Yep that's exactly how I'd NOW describe it :)

[@bassubforce1974]

Still have not finished Jak 1😆

[@VtnVivi]

I love Jak 1 for its simplistic platforming style!

[@tabreezsiddique]

Sooper Cooper not just that but even the fantastic presentation easily surpasses the sequels! But your reasons may somewhat match with why I prefer the 1st Ratchet & Clank game over the sequels on PS2.

[@microwavetrash2501]

sahmey

[@770megaman]

You should finish it! It is pretty easy compared to the sequels

[@6bluntsdeep]

It's super easy. Trust

[@tyx8898]

So would there be 2 hearts of mar in haven city and 2 precursor artifacts during Jak 2? I mean I doubt they were destroyed in that crash. Meaning there’s only 1 of them each during Jak 3 and Jak X.

[@tyx8898]

Meaning Jak could possibly go back in time again, right? He could become Mar

[@SlashySkeleton9]

These videos are really cool! You are also close on getting 10 thousand subscribers! I would love to see more theories on Jak and daxter or sly cooper. I remember getting Jak and daxter when it first came out and I never finished the first game but I have beat 2 and 3.It would also be interesting if you played through Jak and daxter or something like that. And I would like to se a theory on the mar or something to do with the mar because it always interested me. Hope you get 10 thousand soon and keep making videos :D

[@SlashySkeleton9]

And after watching this video I know more about the story xD I never new much about it but thanks

[@VtnVivi]

Glad you enjoyed and thanks a lot for the support! I will definitely talk about Mar and even the Precursors eventually, pretty interesting stuff! As for let's plays, that is currently not my focus :/

[@mi_uleen]

Samos' family is weird. If Keira is his daughter, biologically speaking, it means she was born after young Samos was sent back to the past with Jak, which means if he was like 3 or 4, that she was about 11 or 12 in the events of TPL since Jak is 15, plus they must have been raised together so they were more like brother and sister ? And the mother is inexistant (are they any mothers in the games tho ?) :0

[@VtnVivi]

I always wonder about the mother.

[@Lost.Reaper]

No its simply that Keira and even Daxter were not born in the future. Young Samos grew into Old Samos back at what was Sandover village but the problem is we keep assuming they went back to Sandover Village when in reality they went a bit farther back in time until Sandover village was created and everybody was born and grew up.

[@marcotita9204]

Who was the green sage before Jak and Samos went to the past the first time? And what happened to him?

[@VtnVivi]

Hmm....I always stick to one time loop, where Samos leaves the life seed for his younger self in the future, rinse and repeat.

[@SupportGamin2025]

@@VtnVivi I actually made a full video on samos's story in chronological order,I haven't uploaded it yet,but I will eventually.

[@INMGrunge]

Since kor is finaly defeated, he cant travel to the past anymore, hence the story continues

[@SupportGamin2025]

looking back on this jak himself could become the mar who founded haven city but he wouldn't be his ancestor,he could go back in time during the past at some point,and he could meet a young clan of warriors,maybe adopts them and they ironically could turn out to be actually be his biological ancestors,and they founded house of mar,after jak(mar)himself had vanished/die(in reality he could have returned back to the future near the end of jak 3)

[@anamecalledname]

So this is the way I see it. There are two timelines. Mar built Haven City. Damas is a descendant of Mar, and named Jak after Mar. Young Jak was threatened by Kor to find the tomb of Mar and get the last precursor stone, but Kor could not be defeated and Samos left with Jak via a rift gate into the past. Damas loses Jak. When Jak is 15, they rebuild the rift gate to go back to the present. Now that Jak is grown, he can face Kor. But impatience has made Kor go back in time for another Jak, thus creating multiple timelines. When Kor is defeated, it could be assumed that young Jak went back in time and found Damas. But since the present doesn't become altered, young Jak never reunited with his father, so we can assume that Jak is where he is now, in Haven, as a result of staying there with Samos. In the third game, Jak discovers his father is Damas and that he is of the house of Mar. In this way, everything comes full circle, and the only thing that's really very iffy is where young Jak goes. If Kor is defeated, there's no reason for him to go back to Sandover where teen Jak was, unless he just grows up in that timeline. In that case, he'd be dead and Jak wouldn't exist in the present. So he has to go back to his own timeline he was pulled from so as not to disrupt the cycle. So there is an instance of present, past, and deep past time travel.

[@SupportGamin2025]

tells young jak goes to Sandover villiage with young Samos to start the events of precursor legacy,there aren't two Jaks,it's always the same one we know

[@christianastorga4555]

Wasn't it said somewhere that Kor and his army have chased Mar through time and space to get the last Precursor egg?

[@toxicpersonalityincorporat3137]

Very interesting explanation. Would you ever consider tackling the whole "Is Jak part of the Mar family, or THE Mar that built Haven City" theory? I've been going around the Internet and it seems a lot of people are confused about it. As much as I love Jak 3, it did give me a little trouble figuring that out due to some seemingly conflicting statements in game.

[@VtnVivi]

Ohhhh the whole ''Is Jak Mar'' thing? Absolutely ;) Yes, many are still confused.

[@minithedog4048]

But in Jak 3 Deimos says to find his son Mar who is young Jak

[@VtnVivi]

And? What point are you trying to make? That Jak is not Mar?

[@RazzoClimhazzard]

This time loop stuff might be better served on a graph with an x-axis being time, left being the past and right being the future, and showing the paths of all of the characters.

[@VtnVivi]

True, but what if people found that even more confusing?

[@ToastMaster2C]

Your little loop diagram is always how I thought it worked too. Jak was always going to be from the future, young and old Jak are always supposed to switch places.

[@hrodvithit]

It's not a time loop, from what I remember it's all Novikov, no new timelines made, Jak get's sent to the past, grows up, goes to the future, defeats yer mano, sends himself back and carries on. The term timeloop kinda implies a never ending cycle....

[@mikelamb2504]

Id think its worth mentioning Kor going through the rift gate unleashes the metal heads into the world to begin with potentially, as we see literally dozens fly through along with Kor. Implying this could have been the beginning of the bad things to come and to force the people of Jak 1 to evolve and adapt faster and more efficient.

[@dextergrif2019]

I see Kor’s first appearance through the Rift Gate as being the true origin point of the time loop. From what we know, the Metal Heads wiped out Precursor civilization and moved on, likely losing access to the Rift Gate on Jak’s planet. After Jak activates the Rift Gate in Jak II, Kor finally regains access to Jak’s world and creates the future we see in Jak II. My theory is that the original timeline before Jak activates the Rift Gate for the first time is that Jak is actually just a boy born in the past to unknown parents and the Explorer actually is his uncle. After the events of the Precursor Legacy and the activation of the Rift Gate he creates a new timeline where Jak is a boy named Mar born in the future who goes back in time to become the Jak we see in The Precursor Legacy and then that “uncle” turns into an adopted uncle instead. So Jak was simultaneously born in Sandover Village AND Haven City. He’s just an anomaly in the time-stream in my eyes. Or maybe Naughty Dog had some oversights because time travel storylines are really difficult to write in a way that avoids all plot-holes… lol

[@MatthewJamesKalasky]

Could it be possible for the loop to be broken?

[@CHURCHISAWESUM]

The thing I don’t understand is once they were in the past and Kor was still not at the planet, why did they open the rift gate? The rift gate is how Kor found the planet in the first place Did Samos not know Kor would pop out through it? I guess not Also there are two Samoses, which means young Samos was also born in haven. Yet there’s only one Keira.. so Keira was born in Sandover Village?

[@skeetbab4025]

when jak was young he was stolen by vegar into haven city and that was tiny jak then the jak you were playing as goes into the future and at the end sends the boy to the jak and the precursor legacy village

[@VtnVivi]

Exactly.

[@Wormeatan3]

This is what I think about what Samos says at the beginning of Jak 2, "So this is how it happened." He doesn't say it because he "forgets" so to speak. He says it because he now realizes that this is how himself and older Jak come to arrive in Haven City. I'm sure when he was younger, before himself and young Jak left to the past he always questioned how/when his old self and older Jak arrived in Haven City. That's my opinion on why he said it anyways.

[@VtnVivi]

Good way to put it!

[@Lunaii2]

jak send his himself in the past, alright, that's the loops. But who did send jak on the first loop ? Imo mar has to do something in the first loop

[@VtnVivi]

Hmm....Time travel hurts my brain.

[@jasonguzman670]

How does this explain Kiera’s existence is she actually Samos daughter or adopted like jak , plus didn’t jak have an uncle in jak 1 ?

[@morgenstern4.669]

So, who is the MAR in the statues of Haven City?

[@sanosu87]

for those who didn't understand, conclusion = 🍌

[@VtnVivi]

Banana

[@Yashahiro_]

I think the Kor in the beginning is the same one you meet in the future just about 18 or so years younger. and I think he was trying to chase Jak and Samos through the time gate the first time they went back to the past but ended up in the time gate we see in the intro cut scene.

[@Yashahiro_]

And then when you ran into him he gets flown back somewhere in Time

[@SupportGamin2025]

the thing is it still makes no sense because kor gets killed by future jak and then he sends young jak and young samos back into the past,so kor appearing in the rift gate when jak later opens the rift gate alive wouldn't make sense.

[@SupportGamin2025]

if the kor that appeared out of the rift gate,is a future kor,then where did the past kor(after the metal heads,invaded sandover)come from?

[@VtnVivi]

Hmm....It's possible future Kor jump started the invasion.

[@YoungCel4Life]

Bro how did they pick up the door that had all the power cells and place it on the end of the bridge ? Never understood that part in the open scene in Jak 2.

[@VtnVivi]

They found the last rift gate inside that door along with the rift rider. As for how they took the rift gate to the lab, well I say Daxter did it...

[@YoungCel4Life]

VTNVIVI Thanks for the response Im playing the series over again.

[@SpcyToast]

I'd say the precursors couldn't defeat kor so they threw him into a rift gate and locked him in there along with the other metalheads. when Jak and everyone open the rift gate, they release Kor and everyone else gets shot through time to the future. Kor the uses Baron Praxis to remove Mar's bloodline from rule and capture young Jak as a way of keeping a pure Jak (descendant of mar) while getting the older Jak to do his bidding and get the last precursor egg.

[@Ldubs842]

I wanna know about how young Jack ended up in Haven given that his father Damos lived in the desert. I wanna know how they got separated. Additionally, I wanted a jack 4 (not the lost frontier that was unrelated third party garbage) that explains how jak aka Mar lived in the future because apparently he creates haven city and etc.

[@Auxiliary97]

But if jak is mar and mar made haven city then that means when kor went through the rift gate kor who went in the past seen jak(mar) build the city to protect the last precuser egg. Or am I looking too much into it

[@VtnVivi]

There's no such thing as looking too much into it when it comes to time travel ;)

[@MarylandDude9005]

Every video i see with time travel in it, ALWAYS destroys my brain!😨

[@VtnVivi]

I know the feeling :P

[@jupstejuho]

So how did young Jak get to Haven city in the first place if he was born in the past in Sandover village?

[@VtnVivi]

Jak was born in Haven City, he was taken to Sandover village.

[@ufc3breakdown859]

“You can not hide from me boy”****** annoyed me lol

[@stephaniegalliart859]

This was pretty much exactly how I've been rationalizing all this in my head for the past 14 years or so. It made sense when I first played it, and I'm glad you cleared it up for everyone else that kept asking dumb questions about why they didn't see kid Jak wandering around in Jak III, or dumb questions about why there aren't a million Jaks wandering around. There's like nothing to disagree with you with, you explained what happened. There's nothing to debate LOL.

[@VtnVivi]

Glad you found the video useful :)

[@roax206]

an easy way of putting it is jak is born a number of years before the events of jak 2 then travels back in time in jak 2 to a number of years before jak 1 takes place and grows up to discover the time machine then travels into the future to the time of jak 2 and defeats Kor and the time travel stops there. There is no local time loop for jak only that he experiences the events of jak 2 twice in his lifetime.

[@VtnVivi]

Jak does beat Kor and yes it ends there. But, young Jak will re-experience it all.

[@roax206]

hey cool its not very often the uploader replies to me. The main point was we see it as a loop but from jak's perspective he just sees the same events twice in his life(first as young jak then later as big jak) and thus if we take it from his point of view its easier to comprehend.

[@Diver1991--]

Do you have a video about Jak's uncle in Sandover Village? It's kinda weird to think of him as Damas' brother.

[@VtnVivi]

Not yet :P

[@keith7452]

This honestly don't confuse me khor came from the past but at some point went to the futer (I butchered that I know) and found sand over village and changed the past at this point the cycle has already started.

[@FeverSwampHL]

My brain might be boggling abit but the only way i can see Jak being Mar and not just named after him (If thats what they want to go for) is: 1) Everything takes place from J1 to J3. Jak sends his young self back to the past as it originally is suppose to happen. 2) Since meeting his older self (Meaning that this meeting of young and old Jak had a lasting effect on them both) Young Jak actually remembers alot more of what happens in the future. 3) This Young Jak now keeps his original name (Mar) and decides that because he now knows more about what is to come he decides this time to not go back to the past (Pre maturely like ending of J1 or when he is ready as an older Jak) and prepares for the future events. 4) Young Jak now is able to prepare, train, and build Haven City/The Shield and much more and make the legendary name for himself in the future. You can tie it back in as not a branching path/Alt reality but as Younger Jak setting the foundation for the future without unraveling time itself since we clearly see that you can have multiple of someone from different times in one place. Doesn't break any Time laws the game places (from what i can understand) and effectively establishes Jak as Mar.

[@VtnVivi]

Interesting way of putting it!

[@doctormisterio5779]

I have a tough question. Hypothetically speaking. What would happen if on one of the many repeating loops that Jak knew enough to not open the gate to let the metal heads destroy the world and stayed in the past? What would happen?

[@VtnVivi]

Hmm....

[@VongolaXZax]

Hmmmm indeed

[@icemebro9338]

Great video. I just love Jak and Daxter

[@VtnVivi]

Thanks :D

[@doncornetto]

Soo... jak has to kill kor over and over again?

[@VtnVivi]

Yep time loop!

[@AAA310]

So youre implying that Old Jak originally lost to Kor and thats why his young self was sent back?? Then he broke the loop by finally defeating Kor?

[@VtnVivi]

Young Jak was always sent to the past, part of a continuous timeloop. Jak doesn't really ''break'' the loop, he just moves away from it and continues his adventures in 3 and X. As for his young self, he grows up moves to the future and rinse repeat.

[@AAA310]

VTNVIVI OK THERE WE GO NOW THAT MAKES SENSE. It confusing where people said he breaks the loop. Well of course he breaks the loop because he lives on lol. Jak 1 and 2 repeat over and over. And as for your Kor theory. I see as this There are 2 Kors 1 that exists in the past already(precursor legacy) hes just not relevant yet or he just doesnt exist yet and arrive around Mars time And there is the Kor they fight in the future. He is the one that shows up in the rift gate. When the jak and gang go through the rift gate Kor just chases them back to the future. But that Kor already came from the future he just wanted to see Onin's prediction as he was already Young Jaks mentor i presume(thats why he says "you cannot hide from me boy"). The reason why Kor doesnt stay in the past when he peaked through the rift is because that wouldnt make sense as thatd mean he'd just live through the same events over and over. And thered basically be only 2 Kors living at the same time which wouldnt make the storyline because Kor would just keep running into himself or he'd live through the same events over and over The reason why the rift gate was in his nest was because he used it to go peak into the past initially. When Onin told him the prediction he put the rift gate there. Its impossible for Kor to have stayed in the past and attack Sandover. As for his metal heads thats a different story. They might have.

[@Senas2004]

as daxter said: " the more you think about it the more it hurts the head" :) btw I aprecciate the work and time you spent doing this! Congratz!

[@VtnVivi]

Glad you enjoyed video thank you!

[@MegaStorm252]

It's interesting if Jak is Mar, because it would mean that he'd spend his later years in life, still in the past, setting up relics foundations and devices that he'd know would be broken by his younger self, or put through turmoil and peril. It's like making something you know will be destroyed.

[@jacobholly2096]

What if the essence of the precursor stone is inside Jak that's why the kor we saw came out of the rift saying "you can't hide from me boy" maybe when when young Jak touched the stone some of it's energy went in him which is why Jak can channel so much Eco without any harmful side effects well sort of. That's my explanation.

[@omegasamurai1787]

love jak and Dexter I grew up with these games and I have the collection

[@VtnVivi]

Nice!

[@Userdavid-pz4qm]

Two questions: WHY again did Jak bring the precursor stone into Kor's cave? Second, why did Kor have an ACTIVE rift gate waiting for Jak? Yes, I get that Onin knew Jak would defeat him, whereas Kor did not know that. So, I get that Jak and crew would need to send their younger selves into the past. But, why did KOR have it on? Maybe to lure Keira, Bruder, Jak and Samos into his planned ambush? Just trying to make sense.

[@charlie_chucks738]

I think you're just smoked out. Lol good explanation and good video.

[@jalaboy758]

Jak 2 reminds me of samurai jack

[@VtnVivi]

Oh!

[@FreakyStyleytobby]

Jak 2 reminds me of jack nicholson

[@5T4T10NDR4GON]

What I thought about after beating the trilogy was if Mar founded haven city, and jaks real name is mar. Yet he was born way after the founding of haven city. Is jak the founder?

[@VtnVivi]

Exactly the question we ask ourselves.

[@d_e_d5265]

Can someone explain to me why Samos dosnt remember anything from jak 2 in the precursors legacy

[@VtnVivi]

He simply kept it from them I'd say. He knew, the intro of 2 I'd say makes it clear.

[@d_e_d5265]

VTNVIVI I just rewatched the ending cutscene and he says "so I wont remember any of this" so I think the time travel made him forget what happened in haven

[@jobennebur]

How could mar build haven city if he was born there when demos was the ruler of haven city?

[@ColtonRainwater]

Kor definitely does not have the power to create his own universes...

[@VtnVivi]

Create a universe as in altering the past and creating a new future.

[@crowmaster9652]

Onin probably told the baron where jak would spawn and why jak would cause the metalheads to overrun the city. Baron tried to experiment with Jak in an attempt to make a weapon that will fight against Kor. Ashlin probably knew onin through torn and told the baron about Jak's arrival from the past. If you really think about it the baron actually prevented a loop in time through onin thus pumping jak with dark eco was necessary to prevent Kor from accessing the precursor stone at an early point in time. Because if the Metalhead leader found jak after the rift gate he would've still activated the stone.

[@VtnVivi]

Interesting take!

[@Nico-the-Nacho]

More on Jak and Daxter: in the scene in Jak II when Jak and Daxter are eavesdropping on the Baron's conversation with Errol, Errol says something about a spy... what spy? This never comes to light again. I don't THINK he was talking about Kor... perhaps it was Krew? Idk. But a spy never seemed to be a plot point except where Errol mentioned that one existed.

[@JustALilBrit]

Nicholas Kreutzer I'm never really think about that...

[@KillerKaje]

Nicholas Kreutzer probably the barrons daughter

[@VtnVivi]

Maybe just a simple spy, probably doesn't really affect the plot that much but who knows.

[@GhostFan-ev4di]

the spy was Praxis daughter

[@MrWitteman10]

Kor lives in the rift, jak opens it up and releases him, jak and the others get sent into the future trough the rift, and kills kor in the future. After that young jak gets sent to the past to start the cycle again.

[@VtnVivi]

We can say Kor was looking for Mar who was escaping through time, I will talk about Mar soon. And yes, you summed it up pretty well.

[@justmonika9761]

I had no clue how this 100% worked so thank you XD

[@kauecampos8756]

If opening the portal and led Kor out with the metal heads was what caused the war, then why Samos dit it again? Would not be better to just do nothing besides guard the portal? Or he did it to secure that the events of jak 3 occur the way it supposed to and protect world of its destruction? If thats the case, how would he know that?

[@kauecampos8756]

I probably missed something, its been ages since i played the games

[@VtnVivi]

The latter. To make sure everything happens as destined I'd say. If they use the portal to time travel, it would guarantee young Jak travelling back to the past. A stable time loop.

[@Buffbud96]

That picture of the time loop would be kinda confusing to someone who doesn't understand the timeline. It appears that you have 2 possible timelines, one where everything CONSTANTLY repeats, and one where it branches off to Jak 3. i would use a spiral, starting where Jak is born in Haven, sent to the past, grows up, sent to the future, defeats Kor, sends young self to the past, THEN branches off.

[@VtnVivi]

Yeah my representation is probably not the best heheh. All I see is a constant loop with a part branching off like you said.

[@Buffbud96]

Meh, still a great video to help explain the confusing nature of time travel to people who are un-aware of the Jak timeline, unlike us pros *Fistbumb*

[@Yashahiro_]

How did Kor come into contact with young Jak? And why is he the one who's watching him?

[@VtnVivi]

Kor was watching after Jak due to his pure heart capable of activating the precursor egg, he had plans for him.