James White - Apostasy: Its Nature, Kinds & Causes

[@BornAgain490]

Thank you, brother James, for a wonderful sermon. 👍

[@JesusistheonetrueGod]

This was a great sermon. Thank you Pastor White

[@asuprpixie1713]

This is such a fantastic sermon. I can't find any type of teachings such as Jeff Durbin and James White. It seems most local churches give watered down sermons.

[@michaeldorsey4580]

If you call up the Masters university, they have the location of all their pastors that have graduated from them in your local area.

[@Kylecombes4]

Thank you Dr. White

[@Thinking-Biblically]

If I have returned to wallowing in the mire how do I change my nature? I realize I can't and I have begged God to change me and for a season it seems as though he has but then I return to my previous sins. Please pray for me I'm miserable

[@kelliknotts]

Ill pray for you. Pray for me

[@rickgomez2885]

The fact that your besetting sin and temptation bothers you so much can be a good sign. Draw near and stay close to Jesus, study God's Word diligently, be continually in prayer. Always repent each time you fall. Sometimes it takes a long time to overcome an evil habit and even when God gives you victory over it, the temptation may be something you will fight for the rest of your life. Take comfort in the words of Jesus, "With God all things are possible." Praying for you.

[@Kephers7]

Struggling, is a good sign. Those who don't love Christ, don't care whether they sin or do these things. They don't even question their allegiance to Christ. It doesn't cross their mind. The fact that you're upset and questioning, is a good sign. A struggle means there are two natures, not one, and that they are at odds with one another.

[@N81999]

You are coming to the end of yourself, thats the whole point when Jesus tell ppl what they must do to be saved and it was literally something impossible, his point was to drive the audience to look to himself for salvation. Sounds like the struggle christians face. I love you and will be praying for you. Much brotherly love

[@Nathan-mf2yz]

I’m praying for you. I think I may be going through a similar thing right now. Jesus truly is our only hope.

[@mouriermarie-helene3510]

Amen brothers !

[@benjaminhoffman3848]

Thank you for talking about the apostate Andy Stanley and his celebration of evil.

[@jodyshea6106]

He's an excellent pastor!

[@marshallalbritton9521]

Great sermon

[@klayson19]

why doesn’t apologia post their worship songs and singing, i’d be interested in that.

[@reecesouza8307]

It’s to encourage you to find your own local church and sing with them , they only post messages to help Christians on a greater scale , this is not for online church , which is why they won’t show the Lord’s Supper, Member Meetings , Psalm and Hymn Singing ;etc .

[@a_muqadashaql_i]

Hoping they turn off comments too 😂😂😂

[@helenpeddycord2241]

Such a timely, relevant message for Believers today.

[@asher5048]

Yes I believe Reece is right that it’s to encourage others not to try and do church online. I have been watching their sermons for a while now but have not been active in the body as I should be. I just attended this sermon in person today and plan on participating in fellowship with other believers moving forward.

[@Brandon.Germany]

Probably copyright issues

[@meritorioussir9129]

Minute 33 I was reminded of the law where if a man was displeased with his wife and she married again and was divorced he could not take her back. Seems fitting for Hebrews 6

[@PeteJab]

I actually know a man named Demas. His family was even involved in an evangelical Baptist church. 😅. Why they named him that is beyond me.

[@Yesica1993]

Yikes! Maybe it means something good in a different language and they didn't realize the biblical connection until years later? That's my theory and I'm stickin' to it. ;)

[@LucianaPelota]

Maybe the formal name of the man you know (called Demas) is actually Nicodemus.😊

[@Yesica1993]

I like that!@@LucianaPelota

[@uwekonnigsstaddt524]

I know people named Dimas in Spanish spelling.

[@Are_You_Sure_Bro]

When dr white mentioned how no one is named Demas anymore I was thinking "as if you'd ever run into someone named Philemon or Onesimus either..."

[@ingrishbrain]

Excellent. Thank you!

[@blank-964]

Good stuff & very informative

[@Nazarene_Judaism]

This is why we have messianic judaism. shalom

[@enriquemoure7212]

Calvin's words: “Creatures are so governed by the secret counsel of God, that nothing happens but what he has knowingly and willingly decreed.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 16, Paragraph 3) “We hold that God is the disposer and ruler of all things, -that from the remotest eternity, according to his own wisdom, He decreed what he was to do, and now by his power executes what he decreed. Hence we maintain, that by His providence, not heaven and earth and inanimate creatures only, but also the counsels and wills of men are so governed as to move exactly in the course which he has destined.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 16, Paragraph 8)

[@TyehimbaJahsi]

Sounds like, under Calvin's logic, there really is no such thing as "sin" - missing the mark - since by Calvin's logic, God determines every mark.

[@nereida116]

@@TyehimbaJahsi Calvin looked beyond and understood Yaweh's Absolute Sovereignty and Omniscient power... Thus, we see time in slices: past/present/future, however (!) Our Creator sees it all at once which makes Him GOD. Nothing, NOTHING, surprises Yaweh. When He called us, He KNEW ALL of your future sins, every single ONE. Moreover- Christ Jesus is Our Perfect Intercessor and High Priest. Additionally, we have The Holy Paraclet and Advocate! He will bring you back to the PROCESS OF SALVATION VIA WISDOM & TRIALS OF FIRE. Basically, Our God and Redeemer and Holy Comforter have you covered. Done deal. Abba Heavenly Father‼️Hosanna to The Highest in Heaven‼️ Thank you Holy Advocate‼️

[@КлюевСергей-э5с]

32:30 Christ is above the law and people must be prepared for it, especially those who are afraid to violate the law…. Not to reject Christ after conversion.

[@КлюевСергей-э5с]

16:54 Do you think it’s about ministry and belonging to a group of believers? Not about God’s glory and New Nature presence and flow in the heart of a believer?

[@Guineaster]

Who was the apologist?

[@Yesica1993]

I am assuming he meant Ravi Zacharias.

[@Brandon.Germany]

Yes, definitely Ravi

[@Yesica1993]

Unfortunately, this left me more confused. I need to know whether loved ones who made a profession of faith and used to attend church regularly, but now don't attend church and live however they want are truly saved or not. I need to know if loved ones who still attend church but then scream at me on a regular basis without ever apologizing and repenting are truly saved or not. That is what I desperately need to know. This made it seem like you can walk away from God, live however you want, and yet still (somehow) be saved. It makes no sense to me.

[@tylersburden2593]

Hey yessica! As one Bible reading Christ follower to another I will say this in my most humble opinion. Backsliding in the faith vs total abandoning of the faith are different. I'm guessing from your comment your speaking about a people who have completely walked away, and now live however they want. Here are some scriptures to help James 2:14 [14] What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? (ESV) 1 John 2:19 [19] They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us. (ESV) 1 John 3:4 [4] Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. (ESV) Luke 9:62 [62] Jesus said to him, No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God. (ESV)

[@tylersburden2593]

There are many more passages that you can use biblically. Such as also in 1rst John Where he says "those who love the world do not have the love of the father" or those who lack a love for the brothers do not love Jesus Christ. A sensitive topic I know, I have family who claim to believe but are nominal and don't care for the word or church and live however they want. Best thing to do is kindly and lovingly approach with certain passages or ask questions and to the upmost importance is prayer! - love from a fellow brother in Christ may God give you wisdom.!

[@JesusistheonetrueGod]

Bear in mind my sister that we will know them by their fruits, but only God knows the heart. Don't worry about someone's state of being, rather continue to serve God and be the light in the darkness. Don't be influenced by them, rather you be the influence that points toward Christ.

[@northtrader]

@Yesica1993 I have read your comment at least half a dozen times. There's quite a lot to unpack. I'll start with what Paul commented about Demas "having loved this present age" and that leads to a couple of phrases from this very message: at 10:36 "a persons affections being in the wrong place" and 11:04 "Paul understands there was a problem with the heart". The heart determines where we place our affections. Our will (our actions, what we do) always serves that which our heart loves. The follower of Christ is always dealing with competing desires. Their heart (the seat of our desires and affections) is being drawn by influences such as the word, the self, the devil or the Holy Spirit. These competing desires are referred to as 'the weeds' in Mark 4:19 "but the worries of the world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things enter in and choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful". Even the apostle Paul lamented this struggle in Romans 7:15 - "For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate". With that as a backdrop, let's explore your concerns about "those that claim, or once claimed, a faith" and are either 'not engaged' and/or 'unconcerned about being mean and belligerent'. First, there is the ubiquitous term "salvation" or "being saved" that yes, is an important thread in scripture, but it has a tendency to cloud the weightier importance of "knowing Christ". Jesus said, in John 17:3 "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent". The LORD, as recorded in Jeremiah 9:24 "but let him who boasts boast of this, that he understands and knows Me," . Knowing the LORD and Jesus is paramount and "salvation" (being saved from the wrath of God on sinful, rebellious mankind) is extended to those who come to know the LORD. Seeing and/or seeking "salvation" as the "end all" has a tendency to excite in the heart a 'checkbox' posture: "I said the prayer and now I'm saved" - "I'm good to go now because I am saved". It is much more impactful to realize that the heart being drawn into the start of a relationship with Jesus, one where a persons heart grows in affection for Him (as they are influenced by the Holy Spirit), is the weightier matter. Which brings me to Matthew 7:15-23, where Jesus discusses a tree and it's fruit and closes with "I never knew you". This is where my thoughts went as I read your comment. You are seeing 'fruit in others' that doesn't appear to be appropriate with what kind of trees these people claim to be - and sometimes it takes a long time for a tree to reveal it's real fruit but the fruit will reveal the tree. Those that claim to be 'good trees' but bear 'bad fruit' might never have been a 'good tree' to begin with.

[@tylersburden2593]

@@northtrader I am working currently but, much respect and adoration for the long comment. However, due to my own displeasure, I must say your incorrect about the John 21 inference. The Lord Jesus is responding to Peter regarding their death, John specifically notes that, right before Peter asks about John, this is not about salvation. There are many warnings in scripture about going back to your old life, and those who look back not being fit for the kingdom of heaven. Anyone who can just forget the Lord forget his church, his children, most likely was never saved in the first place despite how cruel that sounds, there is still hope for the future. This does not mean if your not out there everyday preaching or working for charity that your condemned, but rather if you can go back to a carnal life and live as if you don't knownthe Lord at all. May the Lord give you wisdom regarding this subject and me as well.

[@bruheeds8726]

The reality 😢

[@КлюевСергей-э5с]

28:20 No Jesus said it wasn’t as bad to blaspheme His name as it is to resist the actions of the Holy Spirit in your heart, not aligning with Him, resisting the world.

[@КлюевСергей-э5с]

Are those who apostatised unable to come back to God? Say, they didn’t know not to combine works and dead letter with faith…

[@somexp12]

Summary: "All who are saved will persevere forever, but apostasy could happen to anyone at any time. A true christian never leaves the faith, but there's no guarantee that anyone you know is a true christian. Also, examine yourself regularly to make sure the you are a true christian, because many think they are but aren't. All who are saved have eternal assurance, yet there are countless people walking around with fake assurance. The only way you can identify authentic assurance is that if you have it you will never leave, so you can't really tell if yours is real or not until it's too late. But still examine yourself, even though it won't do any good. Even though if you find out you're a fake there's nothing you can really do because you're dependent on God to give you the real thing."

[@michaeldorsey4580]

You either did not watch the video and are being incredibly dishonest, or you were not paying attention. He never once said apostasy could happen to anybody. Because the consistency of scripture is we do not know the hearts of men, that is the whole point of the parable of the seeds, that James White is clearly demonstrating.

[@somexp12]

@michaeldorsey4580 I'm well aware that White believes in perseverance, just that the opposite is demonstrated. Demonstrated both by concrete reality and by his lack of any test of salvation that one could employ on either others or oneself. Elsewhere, White has acknowledged that his test is nothing other than "consistency" in sticking around, i.e. the test of perseverance is . . . perseverance. "apostasy could happen to anyone" simply means that, in spite of perseverance, it is absolutely impossible to tell who (including oneself) will persevere. Two Christians can look, behave, think, feel, and believe *exactly* the same, both showing every conceivable sign of being a true believer, but one can apostasize while the other sticks around forever and is recognized as the strongest proof of perseverance.

[@michaeldorsey4580]

@@somexp12 again you clearly didn't even watch the message, when he's quotes from 2 peter, notice what Peter says. " Like the true proverb the dog returns to its own vomit" there was no change, the Bible says anyone who is in Christ is a new creation, so this was not an apostate that was saved and then lost the salvation, this was a dog who was never saved knows the truth and still returns to its own vomit.

[@michaeldorsey4580]

@@somexp12 also just for clarification, the theme of the Sermon is apostasy, so of course he's going to use multiple texts.

[@somexp12]

@michaeldorsey4580 Again, I'm well aware of what you *believe.* I am talking about what *is.* What is is that you have zero means of identifying these "dogs" ahead of time. You have no idea what a "dog" looks like. Otherwise, you would've excommunicated them long ago in order to prevent them from making you look bad. As it stands, all you currently have is a no-true-scotsman that Paul used in flagrant attempt to save face.

[@zackf5120]

1:58

[@taystronaut]

Thank you

[@S-we2gp]

Muslims say that the Bible calls for death for apostasy like Islam. I was hoping someone could refute this. I saw this on a Valuetainment Christianity vs Islam debate. They say various verse like shown below. Can you please help me with this Pastor White and Durbin? Thank you very much. Deuteronomy 13:6-9 If your brother, your mother’s son, or your son or daughter, or the wife [a]you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul, entice you secretly, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods’ (whom neither you nor your fathers have known, 7 of the gods of the peoples who are around you, near you or far from you, from one end of the earth to the other end), 8 you shall not yield to him or listen to him; and your eye shall not pity him, nor shall you spare or conceal him. 9 But you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. Deuteronomy 17:3-5 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel: Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die. Chronicles 15:13 They assembled at Jerusalem in the third month of the fifteenth year of Asa’s reign. 11At that time they sacrificed to the Lord seven hundred head of cattle and seven thousand sheep and goats from the plunder they had brought back. 12They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their ancestors, with all their heart and soul. 13All who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman. 14They took an oath to the Lord with loud acclamation, with shouting and with trumpets and horns. 15All Judah rejoiced about the oath because they had sworn it wholeheartedly. They sought God eagerly, and he was found by them. So the Lord gave them rest on every side.

[@gordoncrawley5826]

These verses support the seriousness of the first four of the Ten Commandments. Israel was God's exclusively chosen people and God said to do these things to keep them pure, for a little yeast goes through the whole loaf, if you let it run its course. To not believe only in the true God is in the end, spiritual death, so God saved others by killing some. It is the greatest irony for Islam to teach this, because they are in fact, serving another god, who is not god at all. The biblical proof is that God has a son, Jesus Christ, and the Muslims teach that the god they serve has no son, which makes them Anti-christs. John 3:35-36 "The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands. Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him." Pity Muslims that are blinded by the lie of the devil, and pray that God will give them light to see.

[@annodomini7250]

@@gordoncrawley5826 It must be nice living in certainty land, the only issue is where things are certain you do not need faith as they are certain.

[@TyehimbaJahsi]

James White's beard gives him a look that is half "Santa Claus" and half crotchety old miner pannin' for gold up in them thar hills.

[@leadhesh]

Spurgeon's take on Heb 6 is more accurate. Only true believers get the gift of the Holy Spirit.

[@КлюевСергей-э5с]

20:00 it is simple. It looks like this. You have faith and it leads you to do what you’ve been taught by the “law” to be a sin or immoral behavior. Like marrying a prostitute in prophet’s Hosea case, or refusing to minister to the enemies of God’s people like Jonah did. OT prepared by these examples believers for the NT, that the direct immediate word of God Trumps everything, every obviousness, all our views of what moral behavior is, good vs evil is, even previously read in the word of God. That is why-there is a commandment to a Jew in the OT- if you find a net with eggs, grab them and watch anxiety of a returning bird. That is why - Abraham, go kill Isaac, “you must cherish only attachment to Me, because I give life”, next moment, stop don’t kill your son, you heart is with Me, you have passed the test. - but you said. “Yep, but it was then. Now the situation has changed”. So, why is it like that? Because God said so. And when a person disobeys this immediate will of God, no matter out of what “good intentions”- he tears his heart away out of the rope of faith given to him in his Regeneration.- this is The blaspheming. Act of internal, hidden in the disagreement with God. That is why “ make friends with your Contestant while you’re on the way with Him…”

[@mariejackson9276]

Easy 2 be saved. Believe that Jesus died for all your sins. He was buried and rose on the 3rd day. Born Again Believers: Over 2,000 yrs. ago. Jesus died for all our sins, Past, Present, and Future. A simple way 2 understand our sin debt that Jesus paid. Past=Yesterday. Present=Today. Future=Tomorrow. So, My Past is gone=no sin. My Present = Today now my time where i lived is 11:30pm. So, at 12:am I will be in My future. . which will be my present. And yesterday will be my past=no sin, and it repeats every day that way. In 10 Mins. I will be in my future which will be My present, and yesterday will be my past=no sin. God Bless all those who read this...Ours sins are Completely Gone Forever!!!

[@annodomini7250]

Born Again Believers, not mentioned in the Bible, Christian, yes, you are born again if you are Christian but no pro noun 'Born Again'.

[@randallwittman2720]

IF In the ,,,Christan world,, by definition : Christ MUST be God and not believing that, a person is a heritic or apostate!! Do you really believe that there could be that many apostates?,

[@jeffreyl1354]

#jameswhitemademecatholic

[@enriquemoure7212]

folks, this guy is a Calvinist. he agrees with the words of Calvin I posted on top. everything he said goes against his Calvinism. the apostasy was predestined and enforced to take place by Calvin's god. there is no free will nor contingency in Calvin's universe. all events, good and evil, were predestined in eternity's past. this man continues to contradict his theology. each time he mentions anyone exercising free will to do either an evil deed or a good one he is borrowing from biblical Christianity. just like the atheist must borrow from the God of creation to support his arguments against the God of creation. each time a Calvinist sounds biblical he is contradicting his theology.

[@roastertruck]

Because he's an idiot

[@Are_You_Sure_Bro]

What are the names of your favorite Christian teachers on youtube? Who is the Christian teacher you would recommend that I learn about Calvinism from?

[@enriquemoure7212]

@@Are_You_Sure_Brothe Bible. is the only source of truth we can trust. the Word of God is not that difficult to understand as many charlatans claim. I recommend you spend qualify time in it. God bless you.

[@Are_You_Sure_Bro]

@@enriquemoure7212 I agree that the Bible is the only source of truth about God, but I'm asking for some good Bible teachers. I'm also asking where to learn about Calvinism. Your reply didn't answer either question.

[@enriquemoure7212]

@@Are_You_Sure_Bro I have none. I listen to no one. the Holy Spirit Who dwells in me, 1 Cor. 2:14, aids me to understand the Words He inspired, 2 Pet. 1:21 are you a Bible defined Christian? If you are you should know that the Word of God is not that difficult to understand on the most part. God wants humanity to know Him. the necessity to have an "expert" explain what the Scriptures say has been exaggerated to elevate the need of these "experts." thus making Christians Bible illiterates or worse, victims of false doctrines and cults. Jesus rebuked people for not knowing the Scriptures, "Jesus answered, “You are mistaken because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God." Matt. 22:29 the writer of Hebrews rebuked believers for the same reason, "For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the actual words of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food." Heb. 5:12 the Bereans demonstrated their knowledge of the Scriptures when they examined them to verify what the apostles were saying, "The brothers immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea, and when they arrived they went into the Jewish synagogue. Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so." Acts 17:10, 11 Paul congratulated Timothy for knowing the OT Scriptures (that's all they had at the time) because they can get anyone saved who reads them, "and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus." 2 Tim. 3:15 God warned Adam, "of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” Gen. 2:17 then along came an expert to "explain" to Eve what God really meant, "you shall not surely die." Gen. 3:4 the devil was the first interpreter of the Word of God. make a note of that. my advice. spend quality time in the Scriptures, specially the NT.

[@Kevin-vk1ch]

James God knows calvinism is false and destructive you may get over on men with your false teachings but never on God. folks let God be true and every man a liar as it is written that you might be justified in your sayings and that you might overcome when you are judged romans 3:4

[@gordoncrawley5826]

Be careful, "let God be true and every man a liar", could well apply to you, for there is much scriptural support for the Calvinistic view of salvation. I now go to a Reformed Baptist Church, but before that, I argued against Calvinism too. My mistake, like so many others who argue against the Calvinistic view, was that I did not really understand Calvinism, I just repeated other people's opinions about it. However, when it was explained to me properly, the light went on, and I could never go back to my old thinking. You may not know, as I did not, that in the beginning of the Reformation and for some time after, the Calvinistic view was the general way that Protestant Christians believed. This was and is contrary to the teachings of the RCC. If you are a Protestant, then thank God for giving the early Protestant Church this Calvinistic knowledge. If you ever become a Calvinist, your view of God will grow, along with your faith and your knowledge of the bible, for all things will fall into place. True Calvinism is a hedge against falling into apostasy, and time will prove this out, as most all the churches that are already falling away, are not of the true Calvinistic view of things. Ask God to show you the truth, that is what I did.

[@Kevin-vk1ch]

@@gordoncrawley5826 if you don't even believe the basics of Christianity that Jesus died for everyman as scripture clearly says then you have another gospel and another jesus and as scripture says whoever preaches another gospel which is no gospel at all let him be accursed the gospel of christ is for every creature and whosoever may come. God didn't even prepare hell for men but for the devil and his angels as scripture says. men go there because they refuse to believe the gospel of christ to as many as received him to them gave he the power to become the sons of God even to them that believe on his name not before its after you have believed you were seal with the Holy Spirit of promise you cannot profess to be a Christian if you don't believe the scripture when I hear calvinism I hear has God said.that he is not willing that any should perish but that all would come to repentance or has God said that the grace of God has appeared to all men or has God said Jesus is the savior of all men. it's mans choice and responsibility whether he will believe God or not satan tried to tempt Jesus with the word of God and he is still doing it to deceive people all over the world believe God not reform theology Gods word doesn't need to be reformed and never will

[@gordoncrawley5826]

@@Kevin-vk1ch The Word is not being reformed, it is how you understand it. Anybody who believes in Christ will be saved, and no one can be saved without believing, this is true. I am not saying that those who do not believe the way Calvinists do, are not saved, I am only saying it is a more correct way of discerning the scriptures. It is certainly not another Gospel, and your saying that makes me know that you do not yet really understand Calvinism. John 3:16 Says that "God so loved the world..". Prior to the time that this was written, the Jews were the only people of God, but after the death and resurrection of Christ, all nations, tongues, tribes, any person, could rightly become Sons of God, not just the Jews. I know all of what you are saying, for I was on that side of the fence for many years. What I am saying is, that you need to see both sides clearly, for only then can you truly discern which is more correct. But meanwhile, be careful who you demonize. It is OK to have your opinion about things, but be careful of who you jump on, and the tone you use, because you may not be fully mindful of God and His ways. A good verse to meditate on is Jeremiah 17:9, for it sums us all up and is a pride killer. If you are serious about knowing the truth, then look into what Calvinist teach. If nothing else, you will get to know your bible better, and get some deeper basics of Christianity.

[@enriquemoure7212]

@@gordoncrawley5826 Calvinists are constantly accusing people of misrepresenting Calvinism, of not knowing what Calvinism “REALLY IS” of engaging in straw man arguments against their doctrines. I think that most “Calvinists” aren’t REALLY Calvinists. They don’t even know what “Calvinism” is. I’ve studied Calvinism, and for the most part, those who are against Calvinism have properly represented it. I think that many people who call themselves “Calvinists” haven’t studied much about Calvinism. They probably heard a passionate sermon from James White or Jeff Durbin or John MacArthur. Then they put their theological “stake in the ground” and say, “I’m a Calvinist." how ever, there are some Calvinists who have studied Calvinism and know what it teaches even though they don’t like to talk about the “bad side” of Calvinism. They “hide it” and only talk about it when someone presses them on the issues. Or when they engage in words like, “free will”, “sovereignty”, “author of sin”, etc. Either way most “Calvinists” don’t know what “Calvinism” is. the following quotes are from John Calvin’s book, Institutes of Christian Religion. If you can’t agree with Calvin on these issues, then you should not call yourself a “Calvinist” and if you can’t call yourself a Calvinist, then make all Christians aware of what TRUE Calvinism really is so that they don’t become Calvinists. “But those who, while they profess to be the disciples of Christ, still seek for free-will in man, notwithstanding of his being lost and drowned in spiritual destruction, labor under manifold delusion, making a heterogeneous mixture of inspired doctrine and philosophical opinions, and so erring as to both.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 15, Paragraph 8) “Creatures are so governed by the secret counsel of God, that nothing happens but what he has knowingly and willingly decreed.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 16, Paragraph 3) “We hold that God is the disposer and ruler of all things, -that from the remotest eternity, according to his own wisdom, He decreed what he was to do, and now by his power executes what he decreed. Hence we maintain, that by His providence, not heaven and earth and inanimate creatures only, but also the counsels and wills of men are so governed as to move exactly in the course which he has destined.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 16, Paragraph 8) “thieves and murderers, and other evildoers, are instruments of divine providence, being employed by the Lord himself to execute judgments which he has resolved to inflict.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 17, Paragraph 5) “The devil, and the whole train of the ungodly, are in all directions, held in by the hand of God as with a bridle, so that they can neither conceive any mischief, nor plan what they have conceived, nor how muchsoever they may have planned, move a single finger to perpetrate, unless in so far as he permits, nay unless in so far as he commands, that they are not only bound by his fetters but are even forced to do him service” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 17, Paragraph 11) "We call predestination God’s eternal decree, by which he compacted with himself what he willed to become of each man. For all are not created in equal condition; rather, eternal life is fore-ordained for some, eternal damnation for others.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 21, Paragraph 5) “…we say that God once established by his eternal and unchangeable plan those whom he long before determined once for all to receive into salvation, and those whom, on the other hand, he would devote to destruction…he has barred the door of life to those whom he has given over to damnation.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 21, Paragraph 7 “Therefore, those whom God passes over, he condemns; and this he does for no other reason than that he wills to exclude them from the inheritance which he predestines for his own children.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 1)) “I admit that in this miserable condition wherein men are now bound, all of Adam’s children have fallen by God’s will.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 4) “But since he foresees future events only by reason of the fact that he decreed that they take place, they vainly raise a quarrel over foreknowledge, when it is clear that all things take place rather by his determination and bidding.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 6) “The first man fell because the Lord deemed it meet that he should.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 8) John Calvin was not a “great man of God," or a “great theologian." In fact, I don’t think that he was a Christian at all. John Calvin might have been a Christian at one point in time, but not when he wrote any of the above nonsense. The “god” of John Calvin and the God of the Bible are NOT the same God. The Calvinism of John Calvin is NOT “Christianity." Hopefully now, all of the “Calvinists” out there can see exactly that I haven’t misrepresented Calvinism. I have properly represented the Calvinism of John Calvin. Am I saying that a “Calvinist” must agree with Calvin on EVERYTHING in order to be a “Calvinist”? No. BUT, I am saying that you must agree with him on issues concerning salvation, if you are going to call yourself a “Calvinist” - such as predestination, free will, sovereignty of God, etc. If you aren’t willing to agree with the above quotes from John Calvin, then stop claiming that people don’t understand Calvinism, are misrepresenting it or are straw manning Calvinism.

[@michaeldorsey4580]

So you know James White's heart well enough to know that he knows in his heart that what he's teaching is false but still does it?

[@jamesroth5874]

Is it Dr James White, or "Dr" James White, or Mr James White, based on a fake store-bought phd.

[@royhiggins7270]

"You're an adult now, not a baby. If you choose sin, that's not innocent. Babies don't go to hell, adults that choose sin do. And there's a lot more sins in the world than just murdering babies. You advocating for abortion to encourage babies to be murdered, is morally the same as murdering babies though. So yes, you have murdered innocent babies who won't go to hell, but you will If you don't repent." That is a reply I get often when I talk about the hypocrisy of Christian support of forced birth! If Christiany is true then abortion is the most moral thing that potential mothers could ever do! For the vast majority of human beings...almost 6 billion people according to Christianity...eternally burning and suffering in hell will be their fate! In fact if hell is real...the majority of human beings should curse their mothers who were selfish enough to risk extreme eternal suffering for them! Abortion is the most humane thing a mother could ever do...the risk of eternal torture far outweighs any life even eternal life. So do Christians have a denial problem or a logic problem? From the comment above it seems that Chritians don't realize or don't want to recognize that all babies grow up to be adults if they live who will sin or choose not to believe in christ! If you really believe in hell why don't you advocate for abortion? Do you really hate adult people so much that you want them to suffer eternally? Are you really that selfish? How do you reconcile this monsterous dichotomy of Christ? Why do you believe in a God that is so powerless, ineffectual, inadequate, weak, useless that they can't keep the majority of people born from burning in hell for eternity?

[@inchristalone25]

You are acting like we are victims, no, no sir we aren't victims, we CHOOSE hell. Read the gospel if you think everyone is doomed to hell.

[@royhiggins7270]

@@inchristalone25 Learn to read...I didn't say everyone...just those that don't believe in christ. And Christians have no problem allowing 6 billion to choose that fate according to your gospel? Why not choose the most humane route of abortions if you truly believe in hell? No births ever would be the most moral thing that could ever happen if the gospels are true. How big of a monster are you and how big of monster is your god that abortion is the most humane thing for the majority of humanity?

[@tylersburden2593]

If you believe in hell then believe in abortion?.. it you believe in hell believe in murder?. I'm struggling to follow though I can tell you are passionate so pls engage in somewhat of a civil discourse my friend !

[@royhiggins7270]

@@tylersburden2593 It is really simple...if you believe in hell then "abortion" is by far the best option for 6 billion people on the planet who do not believe in christ. It is far better to never be born than to be tortured in hell for eternity? If you truly believe in your christ then you should try to stop the birth of those of every other religion on the planet by any means necessary. You should be preaching to never bring anyone into this world because the risk of hell would always outweigh any life one could ever have.

[@bikesrcool_1958]

What disgusting justification you have! You choose hell. RIGHT NOW you have the choice between eternal life or eternal death. You are free to choose, wether you harden your heart or not is your choice. And you give me even more reason to tell everyone the way to be saved amen