James White Gets To Find Out How Fake His Trinity Belief Is

This video contains the best part of the debate between Dale Tuggy and James White, where James gets to do the Islamic dance, in order avoid tripping over himself, while he is trying to answer the questions from Dale. James Whites lack of proper answers, shows how hard it can be to explain the trinity, when specific questions are asked about this false belief.
The link to the original debate is:
• Dale Tuggy and James W...

[@donovian2538]

Was this a trial or a debate? Embarrassing for both sides. Pitiful display.

[@cunjoz]

this is a part of the debate called cross examination. the side asking questions has the right to interrupt and to move on with questions.

[@donovian2538]

@@cunjoz Interrupt, yes. But I've seen CX performed with much more tact.

[@adp5R3x]

There's Statement & Rebuttal ... is this so-called Cross Exam something Progressives have Changed Around to make themselves sound o.k. ?

[@thetrinitybusters]

They both have beliefs that they feel are worthy of defending, unlike the atheists.

[@donovian2538]

@@thetrinitybusters That does nothing to answer. This is about a lack of decorum, not a lack of motivation.

[@overcookedcooki5285]

Well, I'm just going to go out and say it, I simply disagree with your analysis of this clip. Dale is a rulebreaker, and for that he lost the debate. You can't be a rulebreaker and yet claim that you have confounded anybody. These are simple parlor tricks to create confusion, and I see that James White is busy clarifying, and obviously in the process he has to avoid the traps Dale is placing. Well, I went and said it, you can bash me if you want.

[@cunjoz]

what rules did Dale break?

[@cunjoz]

also did you know that in his rebuttal, James White complained that Dale didn't rebut James' opening statement in his opening statement, which is not how opening statements work. Weird comment to make for someone experienced in debates like dr White is. He also didn't address a single point of Dale's opening statement in his rebuttal which he's supposed to do, even though they've had each other's opening statements a month in advance. So much for Dale rulebreaking and losing the debate. Maybe you should watch the whole debate and realize that this clip is the cross examination.

[@overcookedcooki5285]

@@cunjoz Ah, well, I see you're screwed. There is no helping you if you don't know the rules.

[@overcookedcooki5285]

@@cunjoz I realize this clip is cross examination. I don't see how James White, whatever he did, good or bad, is relevant now, because he didn't break any rules being misinformed about how the opening statements were to work. As for his rebuttal, is it possible Dale's opening statement was... fallacious? Distracted? I am not informed, I did not watch the full debate, I am only communicating about this clip, in this comments section. No, this is not relevant to Dale's rule breaking. You don't make statements in cross-ex

[@thetrinitybusters]

The moderator did not say any rules were broken. James White just couldn't handle the pressure.

[@dallas1891]

Arguing over magic is always fun

[@thetrinitybusters]

I Corinthians 1:18: For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

[@cvdevol]

This shows that the doctrine of the trinity is a source of confusion. No one can really understand it. It does not conform to Logos.

[@cunjoz]

"It does not conform to Logos" and how ironic is that when their favorite prooftext is John 1:1

[@cvdevol]

@@cunjoz Yeah, unfortunately, the translation of "logos" as "word" in most translations makes things murky and mystical. Jesus Christ is rational, and the doctrines that he taught are not confusing.

[@jeonesevenv9]

Ego sometimes blinds a person just because they feel like not seeing. Or maybe you just can't see it at all. Don't blame the doctrine.

[@walkitoff117]

White loses me at Calvinism. Once I know someone prescribes to Calvinism I can’t trust anything else they say.

[@thetrinitybusters]

Also don't ask them about babies.

[@NODOUDT]

lol it's like they're getting all worked up arguing about exactly how many reindeer Santa has

[@cunjoz]

I'm an atheist as well, but I absolutely despise people who just can't see the world from someone else's perspective, people like you.

[@thetrinitybusters]

Shouldn't you guys just be out there enjoying your lives while you can? These two ar both seeking a life after this one.

[@theredeemeriam]

Your channel is busting through the veil that has been covering the eyes of all. Your Christ is proud of you, keep up the good works. You are helping the cup of truth pour forward in abundance, and helping prepare the way forward for your Christ!

[@thetrinitybusters]

Thanks for the comment. We need more people who are prepared to fight against the man made doctrines in the church.

[@cunjoz]

It's very simple. The topic of the debate is "Is Jesus Yahwe?" Dr White says yes. White also says the following: Yahwe is tripersonal. Jesus is not tripersonal. We have 3 statements: Jesus is Yahwe. Yahwe is tripersonal. Jesus is not tripersonal. Which means "That which isn't tripersonal is that which is tripersonal" which is a contradiction. You can't escape this no matter what word you substitute Yahwe with.

[@mr.graves2867]

The Trinity is one God existing in three Persons. Understand that this is not in any way suggesting three Gods. Keep in mind when studying this subject that the word “Trinity” is not found in Scripture. This is a term that is used to attempt to describe the triune God-three coexistent, co-eternal Persons who are God. Of real importance is that the concept represented by the word “Trinity” does exist in Scripture.1) There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5).2) The Trinity consists of three Persons (Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). In Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun "Elohim" is used. In Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for “us” is used. The word "Elohim" and the pronoun “us” are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew language to more than two. While this is not an explicit argument for the Trinity, it does denote the aspect of plurality in God. The Hebrew word for "God," "Elohim," definitely allows for the Trinity.In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see that it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus’ baptism. Seen in this passage is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are other examples of passages that present three distinct Persons in the Trinity.3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various passages. In the Old Testament, “LORD” is distinguished from “Lord” (Genesis 19:24; Hosea 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). The Spirit is distinguished from the “LORD” (Numbers 27:18) and from “God” (Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament, Jesus speaks to the Father about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17). This shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider also the other instances when Jesus speaks to the Father. Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another Person in the Trinity-the Father.4) Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16).6) The individual members of the Trinity have different tasks. The Father is the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); salvation (John 3:16-17); and Jesus’ human works (John 5:17; 14:10). The Father initiates all of these things.The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1, 16:12-15; Matthew 11:27; Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as His agent.The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus’ works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus, the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.There have been many attempts to develop illustrations of the Trinity. However, none of the popular illustrations are completely accurate. The egg (or apple) fails in that the shell, white, and yolk are parts of the egg, not the egg in themselves, just as the skin, flesh, and seeds of the apple are parts of it, not the apple itself. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not parts of God; each of them is God. The water illustration is somewhat better, but it still fails to adequately describe the Trinity. Liquid, vapor, and ice are forms of water. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not forms of God, each of them is God. So, while these illustrations may give us a picture of the Trinity, the picture is not entirely accurate. An infinite God cannot be fully described by a finite illustration.The doctrine of the Trinity has been a divisive issue throughout the entire history of the Christian church. While the core aspects of the Trinity are clearly presented in God’s Word, some of the side issues are not as explicitly clear. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God-but there is only one God. That is the biblical doctrine of the Trinity. Beyond that, the issues are, to a certain extent, debatable and non-essential. Rather than attempting to fully define the Trinity with our finite human minds, we would be better served by focusing on God’s greatness and His infinitely higher nature. “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out! Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?” (Romans 11:33-34).

[@JudeOne3Four]

Please don't try to sell people your Catholic-ism. Can you explain HOW God the son, became Jesus of Nazareth.

[@mr.graves2867]

@JudeOne3Four I'm not Catholic, but I'm willing to talk. Could you clarify your question a bit, why did Jesus need to be a man, or why was Jesus in Nazareth? I'm just trying to understand, so I don't answer the question incorrectly.

[@JudeOne3Four]

@@mr.graves2867 Unfortunately, anybody who believes in the trinity IS a Catholic and not a Christian. The trinity is the central doctrine of the Catholic Church and foreign to the Bible. Anyway, what I mean is simple. Trinitarian doctrine of the incarnation teaches that Jesus Christ IS NOT a human person, he has ZERO humanity. He is a God-person, the second person of the trinity, the Logos. Well, IF Jesus pre-existed as the 2nd person of the trinity, he is *a God-person, a non human person.* That non-human God-person took on flesh at the incarnation. Which means, now you have TWO persons. You have the pre-existing God-person and *the human person, Jesus of Nazareth.* How can one person be two persons?

[@mr.graves2867]

@JudeOne3Four Elohim is a Hebrew word that denotes “God” or “god.” It is one of the most common names for God in the Old Testament, starting in the very first verse: “In the beginning [Elohim] created the heavens and the earth” (Genesis 1:1). The name Elohim occurs over 2,500 times in the Tanakh.The basic meaning behind the name Elohim is one of strength or power of effect. Elohim is the infinite, all-powerful God who shows by His works that He is the creator, sustainer, and supreme judge of the world. “Bring to an end the violence of the wicked and make the righteous secure-you, the righteous [Elohim] who probes minds and hearts” (Psalm 7:9).Sometimes the word Elohim is shortened to El and used as part of a longer name. El Shaddai, for example, means “God Almighty” (Genesis 49:24); El Elyon means “God Most High” (Deuteronomy 26:19); and El Roi means “God Who Sees” (Genesis 16:13). Personal names of people can include the name of God: Daniel (“El Is My Judge”), Nathanael (“Gift of El”), Samuel (“Heard by El”), Elijah (“El Is Yahweh”), and Ariel (“Lioness of El”) are examples. Place names, too, can contain the shortened form of Elohim: Bethel (“House of El”), Jezreel (“El Will Sow”), and, of course, Israel (“Prince of El”) are examples.When Jesus cried out from the cross, “Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?” (Mark 15:34), He addressed the Father with a form of Elohim, Eloi. Mark translates Jesus’ statement for us: “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”Making Bible translation more complex is the fact that Elohim has other usages in the Old Testament besides referring to the One True God. In some contexts, elohim refers to human rulers or judges (see Psalm 82:6 and John 10:34)-the idea is that such people are to act as God’s representatives on earth, exercising authority wisely and ensuring justice. The warning of Psalm 82 is that the human elohim must answer to the Supreme Elohim some day. Elsewhere, elohim is used to refer to false gods (e.g., Deuteronomy 4:28). “They have forsaken me and worshiped Ashtoreth the [elohe] of the Sidonians, Chemosh the [elohe] of the Moabites, and Molek the [elohe] of the Ammonites” (1 Kings 11:33). Note that elohe is a form of elohim used with qualifying words or phrases and translated “god of.”Interestingly, the word Elohim is grammatically plural rather than singular (the -im suffix in Hebrew indicates the plural form). The singular form of Elohim is probably Eloah. What are we to make of the plural? Does the plural form of Elohim imply polytheism? No, the Torah makes clear that God is one (Deuteronomy 6:4). Polytheism is expressly forbidden in the Old Testament.Does the fact that Elohim is plural suggest the triune nature of God? It is best to understand the word construction as a plural of majesty; that is, writing “Elohim” is a stylistic way of emphasizing greatness, power, and prestige. With that said, and in light of the overall teaching of the Bible, the plural form of Elohim certainly allows for the further revelation of God’s triune nature; the Old Testament hints at the Trinity in order to prepare people for the Messiah who would be much more than a human prophet. When Jesus appeared, He more fully revealed mysteries hinted at in the Old Testament. At Jesus’ baptism we have all three Persons of Elohim present: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (Matthew 3:16-17).Our God is great and mighty. His power is on display every day and night in the universe He has made. “Ah, Sovereign LORD, you have made the heavens and the earth by your great power and outstretched arm. Nothing is too hard for you” (Jeremiah 32:17). This great power that no one can restrain is the characteristic of God basic to His name Elohim.

[@thetrinitybusters]

If it taks this long to make your point, then this exposes the falseness of it. Ecclesiastes 5:7: For in the multitude of dreams and many words there are also divers vanities: but fear thou God.

[@guidohlizzi06]

Not at all. This crossed examination is between someone who is trying to explain the bible and the other one trying to create fallacies out of ignorance.

[@thetrinitybusters]

Then where were James White's BIble verses?

[@wjckc79]

All I see are two pseudointellectuals having very calm temper tantrums. However, since that is one essence ature that being human nature, is it two pseudointellectuals (persons) having one temper tantrum?

[@thetrinitybusters]

At least they have beliefs worth defending. Atheists can only defend this life and then nothing afterwards.

[@ArtorGrael]

Jim White is the David Letterman of theology.

[@thetrinitybusters]

Does that mean he is a good actor?

[@ArtorGrael]

@@thetrinitybusters It means he's silly except James thinks he's really serious.

[@thetrinitybusters]

@@ArtorGrael James knows he is serious, because of the Bible hammering that he received.

[@ArtorGrael]

@@thetrinitybusters He has adopted a Shabir Ally beard. And he dresses not like Orson Welles. His black hat and cape are in the cloak room.

[@JudeOne3Four]

There is always something with "christians." Why do you use the tetragrammaton to adress the God of Israel? I bet none of you know how that pagan name got in your Bibles, right?

[@thetrinitybusters]

God cares about people keeping His commandments, rather than about people pronouncing His name right.

[@JudeOne3Four]

@@thetrinitybusters Sorry bro, God cares about what you believe not how your life looks by trying to keep the commandments. Also, where does God allow the Israelites to call Him by pagan names?

[@thetrinitybusters]

@@JudeOne3Four Where is your evidence for the pagan name?

[@JudeOne3Four]

@@thetrinitybusters Just research the Canaanite religion and you will get all the evidence you need.

[@thetrinitybusters]

@@JudeOne3Four Give me the names of some rock inscriptions or manuscripts relating to what you are saying.

[@Thunder-fz2ou]

James got beat quite badly in this showing. Dale asked fair questions which were mostly met with confusing answers.

[@bartduynstee1577]

thats religion for you. theists are instructed by their pastors to go with whatever the pastor says, to let him do the thinking and come up with the most plausible answer. cuz when you follow through yourself, you are bound to get into trouble with contradicting scripture, verses, statements and thoughts. it gets so confusing after a while, that most simply give up

[@ArtorGrael]

The trini must not permit a free flow of questions.

[@TheMahayanist]

This might be the best takedown of James White ever. Exposed how absurd Trinitarian and Chalcedonian belief is.

[@JudeOne3Four]

Correct, these people are brainwashed and indoctrinated into the occult. The so called incarnation teaches that Jesus Christ was not a human person. It was God the son (2nd person of the trinity) who put on a flesh suit. It is a body without personality. So who died on the cross? Nobody! That's how evil and satanic the trinity doctrine is. The Gospel of John is God's Heaven tract for salvation. That is the reason the Devil attacks the Gospel of John through these cults. Trinitarians and Modalists are keeping people away from the Kingdom of God. Matthew 23:13 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! *You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. For you don’t go in, and you don’t allow those entering to go in.* 15 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! *You travel over land and sea to make one convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a child of hell as you are!*

[@PetarStamenkovic]

I feel sorry for James White here. He is responding to someone steadfast on using logic to prove logic is worthless.

[@thetrinitybusters]

More like James White knows the trinity is not logical, so it is his fault for following that illogical belief.

[@ArtorGrael]

@@thetrinitybusters It's his career. What else can he do?

[@markfrankenberry2440]

Dr. did Han Solo shoot first or was he shot at first? Dr. was it necessary for the one ring to be tossed into the top of mount doom to defeat Sauron? Or coud it have been thrown into a lava stream near the bottom? Dr. did Harry Potter have to die to defeat lord Voldemort? Dr. do you enjoy defending fairytales written by iron-age Palestinians? Or do you find it tedious and a complete waste of time?

[@wjckc79]

1. Solo 2. Mount Doom 3. Yes 4. ♥♥♥

[@thetrinitybusters]

If you don't believe in the Bible, then you can leave us in peace to get our eternal life, while you enjoy your temporal one.

[@markfrankenberry2440]

@@thetrinitybusters I understand that outside criticism can be scary. It's nice and warm in your ideological bubble and to have some dirty outsider pop that bubble and bring in dangerous new ideas can be very troubling. But there's a whole world of ideas out there and, even though it's scary at first, maybe you'll find that other viewpoints can be helpful in the long run. Interpretations of the bible have had to adapt as real knowledge has increased, and that trend will likely continue, so why not try yo get ahead of it huh? Instead of fighting knowledge at every turn, why not get out in front of it and then you'll be in a better position to defend your beliefs. Just a thought, a scary, outside, unsanctioned thought.

[@markfrankenberry2440]

@@thetrinitybusters according to you we'll both be getting eternal life correct? Eternal... not 400 million years, that's just the beginning. Eternal. You want that? You want to live 7 billion years and you'll be happy knowing that 7 billion years is basically zero when compared to eternity? You'll be happy to live for eons on eons knowing that no end is ever in sight? In that case I'm positively ecstatic that I'll only have the 1 life because I'm pretty sure I'd get bored after the first 47 trillion years and I wouldn't have much to do after that. Unless I wouldn't be myself, unless I'd be forced to be happy for eternity, unless I'd be a robot who's forced to be in a joyful state constantly for eternity. In which case that's not me anymore so I'm not concerned what happens to that robot. But if that were the case then god could have just made robots already happy for eternity so that can't be it. So yes I'd get bored after maybe 79 quadrillion years and just want it to be done with. Good luck staying active and entertained for 193 quintillion years knowing that's not even 0.0000001% of eternity.

[@thetrinitybusters]

@@markfrankenberry2440 Atheism sounds really boring, which is why you should become a Chrisian, so that you can have fellowship with other friendly believers, who you can then be friends with for an eternity.

[@jeonesevenv9]

"Let me just 'refute' the Trinity with strawman arguments!"

[@thetrinitybusters]

The Bible is not a strawman.

[@jeonesevenv9]

@@thetrinitybusters wait, when did I say "bible" in that post? 🤔

[@thetrinitybusters]

@@jeonesevenv9 Dale was using Bible verses against James White.

[@jeonesevenv9]

@@thetrinitybusters I can also quote the bible inaccurately as strawman arguments. We can all do that. That's what he did. Can't you notice that?

[@thetrinitybusters]

@@jeonesevenv9 Inaccurately is your opinion.

[@bartduynstee1577]

around 5:00. apparently jesus is the incarnate of god. incarnation is another word for rebirth. so god had been born before as something else. so what was that and if not known, why not?

[@JudeOne3Four]

Trinitarians make up stuff as they go but it makes no sense whatsoever. What about the eternal begetting of the son? Or the beginningless beginning of the son? There is NO trinitarian who can explain it but they all teach and believe this gibberish. It's amazing

[@Scott48-w9i]

@@JudeOne3Four begotten from everlasting