The Truth About Paper Cups

[@_adela]

Do it the Italian way, buy a shot of espresso and chug it at the counter.

[@guguigugu]

but then i cant get diabetes from all the cream and sugar :(

[@grzyruth9205]

hardly a chug if its just a shot, mate but I agree

[@trihermawan9553]

@@grzyruth9205 if it's a chug u know what it means. Somethimes a shot is not enought ;)

[@drax14QC]

That's what I do all the time!

[@eugeniovincenzo1621]

@@guguigugu Learn how to drink esperesso

[@Tismar10]

One more detail: the plastic lid actually makes a far bigger impact than the cup itself - so first step: get rid of the lids. As a coffee cart owner I made the experience, that customers take what they see. If I did not display the lids, few customers would ask for them. Now I use RECUP, which is a plastik reusable cup that comes with a deposit and can be returned at any parttaking café down the road. Loving it! Also on topic of CO2: there is coffee being transported on cargo sailers, thus mitigating the CO2 impact. Look for the ships tres hombres and Avontuur.

[@vineets]

The cup is also plastic.The lid is at least recyclable (as it is a plain plastic, again its a hard problem), but the "paper cup" is only recyclable by very few companies and need specialized equipment.

[@Tismar10]

@@vineets true that cups with different layers are close to impossible to recycle. The lid contains a bigger amount of plastic though, and at least in germany, plastic recycling is at some 30% only. I use cups with a plant based plastic that can theoretically be composted. It will be burnt in most cases, but no crude oil necessary for it

[@ArcticGator]

the thing i see floating in the rivers the most where i live is the plastic lids, and the little tab thing in the top of the lid, that and foam cups

[@remnant24]

In a country like the US that would never fly. A business that doesn't provide lids with hot drinks is just asking to get sued for the imminent customer spilling hot liquid over themselves. Lawsuits have been won by consumers for less.

[@Tismar10]

@@remnant24 sad example of legislature being a hindering of going greener. We got some of those too, where a law requires you (for example) to print out a paper receit even for small goods like a chewing gum or coffee when bought. Produces enourmos amounts of paper waster, nobody takes these with them

[@jontotoronto948]

Just pour the espresso straight down the customer's throat from the tap, like a school water-fountain. Latte art their tongue. Just go easy with the steam wand.

[@dafffodil]

pull the shot right into their mouth, hell yeah

[@traviskitteh]

That sounds pretty punk, I'm down.

[@jimmyjam6197]

your suggestion is ridiculous

[@jaydenslaptop]

I’d dig that. Just make it warm and not boiling.

[@ginger88895]

make cups edible so customers eat the cup afterwards! zero waste, problem solved (?)

[@NaeOnYT]

"Customers hand them over still dirty from the usage before and expect [the barista] to clean it." ...wow, those people sound like the WORST.

[@DarkAngelEU]

Customers that complain about their own carelessness are the worst.

[@breadmond]

Sounds like an opportunity to me - some standardized, reusable, takeaway cup; Bring it back dirty, get a clean one, and the coffee shop puts your dirty one in their dish-washer and gives it to some other customer down the road. Worked out with coffee-shops, this could also solve the variable-size issue as you'd agree on standardized sizing. There's obviously overhead in dishwashers for the take-away coffee shop, but you could build that into the price somehow, or the coffee shop could eat it for the sake of not paying for a paper cup (no idea how much a paper cup costs vs. running a dishwasher etc.)

[@AbdulMunimKazia]

Yeah its the first time I actually went WTF when watching videos in this channel. That's messed up.

[@Beakerbite]

@@breadmond We actually have that sort of system for beer. Lots of small brewers will reuse bottles and growlers. So you buy the growler/bottle and if you bring it back, you get a discount the next time you buy. We also have a lot of brewers that use the same bottles/growlers so you aren't locked into just one company.

[@philcurry4959]

I mean it seems pretty crappy to hand a barista your own personal cup that you own and expect them to do your dishes for you. Like the cups he was talking about were reusable cups that people buy for themselves and then bring into the coffee stop with them. I'm not gonna bring one of my dinner plates from home to a restaurant and expect them to wash it for me, y'know?

[@mikcsa]

I think this was the first time I've heard someone use the term "inelastic demand" outside of a classroom.

[@jmagrippis]

At the same time, aren’t we all in James’ KZbin classroom? 😄

[@gherbers]

I offset my coffee cup carbon footprint by never washing my jeans.

[@mina0rahman]

Ditto

[@phl0w666]

I offset my jeans washing by turning my underwear inside out.

[@mud2479]

I offset my underwear inside out turning by not wearing any underwear

[@julianshepherd2038]

Ah the 1970s when filthy jeans were cool.

[@charkee167]

@@julianshepherd2038 Isn't it still cool? Like you can buy a pair of jeans for like $500 that makes it look like your some sort of farm hand that's been working like 30 days straight.

[@concert610]

I switched over to a double wall stainless steel travel cup years ago and love it and use it for everything. It keeps coffee hotter longer and water colder longer. Hand wash between uses. Some coffee shops also offer a discount for being your own cup and some will run some hot water for a quick rinse. I don't like handing a dirty cup so I keep my washed and clean. I also picked up some stainless steel straws. They are reusable and make great for mixing drinks. I just started doing all this because i hated seeing the waste and I like my coffee staying hot.

[@adityadennis4252]

concert610 wow there should be more people like you and mother earth would be very thankful

[@laurenturori6300]

somebody give this guy an oscar!

[@scottbecker3485]

Brilliant. And my chosen path, as well. Whenever I'm going to be out and about (downtown shopping or taking a train), I make sure to tote my beloved Ocean Bottle. Got it off a kickstarter campaign, and it's made of stainless steel on the inside and 100% ocean-harvested (!) plastic waste on the outside. It insulates fairly well, doesn't leak, has a versatile lid (small screw cap for pouring + integrated cup with a sort of flimsy but usable handle that doubles as a strap for carrying the bottle or lashing it to a bag), takes 500 ml (!) of liquid (so great for a large coffee with lots of frothed oatmilk), is easy to clean (no strange lid valves that can get gross), is slender and tallish (fits better than all my other thermoses in my car-cup holders) and also makes a positive impact on the environment, not least because the people who are paid for harvesting the ocean plastic often don't have other good options for making money, and they are even involved in the sorting process afterwards, for extra pay. The whole concept motivates people to clean up the oceans, and trash is used as a raw material. I love this thing a lot, and it's even lighter in weight than all my other to-go options except a bamboo cup (which is not only made of bamboo, mind you, but also has some kind of nasty ingredients to hold it together - oh, and it doesn't close even with the silicon lid on top, since it has a slit for drinking out of). They even designed a chip into the base so that donations for environmental causes can automatically be logged in when purchasing your coffee. Not sure if that has been implemented yet, but we shall see.

[@meanmole3212]

It's not only more environmental friendly choice, but probably healthier to drink from stainless steel cup compared to plastic layered paper cup since plastic is known to dissolve when in contact with hot liquid. Sure, little exposure won't kill you, but why expose your body to unnecessary chemical load when it can be easily avoided.

[@peach8352]

Stainless steel - environmentally damaging mining operations, coal-fired coking plants, noxious chemicals in the air, land, and wastewater - Nice! Mother Earth thanks you warmly for not using paper.

[@samuelwild4239]

Hello James, when I was younger I worked for a pub on the Portsmouth Dockyard. The pub I worked in was one of four in the area. Because the area was really popular for tourists and locals especially in the summer, all the pubs would use identical glassware, plates and cups regardless of who ran the pubs. When glass collectors went out I'd didn't matter who's crockery they were collecting, they were all the same! So as long as there were enough items to fill everybody's shelves and have some out in circulation all pubs were fine. Given that a customer buys a coffee and throws the cup away by the time they've walked down the street, spent some time at work or driven somewhere for example, wouldn't be great if coffee shops used a standardised range of reusable crockery which could be left anywhere, rounded up and returned to any coffee shop regardless of brand, for cleaning and reuse. I think this would fit into a resurgence of the culture that what we consume (across the board) should not be about packaging but the product itself and that returning what it came in should become second nature. I.e. milk bottles, beer kegs and bottles/crates. Just about anything can (and indeed, used to) be supplied and enjoyed, and the packaging returned.

[@Maffoo]

Super interesting thought

[@Madwonk]

The problem is that glassware and ceramics are not the same, and are fundamentally different in terms of cost/recycling. Glass can easily be melted down and recycled, ceramics not so much (there are ways of doing it but it's much harder). As such you really don't want to let go of ceramics.

[@TheOnlyReynoldsWrap]

On my university campus, I use my reusable travel mug all the time, the ladies at Starbucks, Williams and Tim Hortons always fill it up as a medium -- my mug is roughly 14-15 oz (which is the same as a Tim Hortons medium). However, if I'm off campus, the server/barista always measures the coffee in a disposable cup before putting it into my own (and then throw out the cup), even though I tell them it's exactly a medium. So for me, there's no point in bringing a mug to these places if the sole purpose is to reduce waste... and yes I know, this is "first world problems" but why do large companies like Starbucks even give a shit about potentially losing 1 oz of coffee.. they should encourage people to bring their own mug! Lol

[@acninee]

First world problem, yes. But our inability to solve a first world problem becomes a 3rd world problem when the global environment decays. Witness the wildfires in Australia which may well be linked to the impact of global climate crisis. Australia isn't 3rd world, but they will be challenged by the disaster. And 3rd world is even more vulnerable.

[@Tinman3187]

The waste generated by rappent consumerism is not a "first world problem." Developing countries suffer from this issue far more than we do as they do not often have the infrastructure to deal with waste and this ends up creating an environmental and health hazard. In addition, much of the waste floating around the world's ocean and atmosphere come from both developed and undeveloped countries. It's everyone's problem, it's just that the first world invented a lot of the source though capitalism.

[@bleedinant]

Coffee person is an idiot.

[@jgunner280]

Had the same experience, so I know exactly what you mean. They should probably just develop their internal coffee gear with measurements, rather than depending on the cups. I feel like there would be complications somewhere, but there's more ways than just the cups themselves to figure this stuff out. For the many of us brewing at home, I'm sure most of us aren't forced to use the method. They have because they built their system off the easy idea these cups would be a thing forever. If absolutely nothing else, they can have their own reusable cups on hand at these fixed measurements, and use those as a test they don't have to toss, don't have to wash but so often (just test it with water), and go about it with less waste than paper.

[@snail8720]

At the cafe i work at we give each customer a free cup of coffee a day if they bring their reusable mug Sadly under the new Coronachan rules we cant use reusables

[@kristopher77]

I would love if James made a comprehensive documentary about coffee from culture to the industry. The effort put into these videos is insane for just a 5 minute youtube upload

[@peterj1823]

we can't consume our way out of an environmental crisis, surprising

[@Bartooc]

But we try.

[@saidnimr959]

Bartooc ...not really. We pretend.

[@GlebRysanov]

Nobody is actually willing to sacrifice his or her lifestyle to the extent it would make any difference. Moreover, manufacturers globally are doing their best to yet increase consumption (non-repairable appliances and machinery, disposable details, etc.). If we drop the consumption rate significantly, that could help the environment, but ruin the economy as it stands today. Looks like we left ourselves little choice, if any. We fight mold on a wall instead of finding ways of keeping the wall dry.

[@ronaldgarrison8478]

We can't consume out way out of one, but we can't conserve our way out of one, either. Going "back to the land" won't do it. Heck, even dying won't do it; surely corpses have an environmental footprint. But that doesn't mean there is no solution; only that it requires thought and effort.

[@florianwicher]

In a way the environmental crisis is the perfect storm. Everyone must make an effort, nobody wants to, and especially nobody wants to if the others don't. A huge coordination problem.

[@archiballz]

Would you say that the companies manufacturing compostable cups are guilty of greenwashing? They tend to advertise the fact that their products are compostable and degrade within a few months but often fail to clarify that this only occurs under optimal condition in industrial settings. And if so, what can coffee consumers do about this?

[@crazyjds]

Industrial composting or aerated composting work so if you have those barrel/composter that should work.

[@colainc90]

of course they are. Individuals don't demand paper cups, they are conditioned to accept them. If a company actually cared about the waste it wouldn't make the cups in the first place. The profit motive will shit on any personal effort you make.

[@SpaghettiToaster]

Biodegradation is a meme. Degrading a cup is effectively the same as burning it (the stored carbon is released as CO2 by the degrading microorganisms). The only difference is, by burning it, you get usable energy out of it. Burning means you use the same carbon first as plastic, then as fuel, which is good. Degrading means you only use it a plastic, at a higher energy cost, and then fail to get any energy back out of it. It would only be feasible if these cups were collected and composted in biomass energy plants, but since people tend to interpret "biodegradeable" as a free pass for throwing them in the bushes, this doesn't happen. The only place for biodegradeable cups would be in developing countries where you cannot reasonably expect consumers to do anything but throw them in the streets, where they will inevitably end up in the oceans. Here, the higher carbon footprint is justified by the reduction of marine pollution. But, since degradeable cups are usually more expensive, this is not a viable usecase either.

[@colainc90]

@@SpaghettiToaster Actually thats not entirely true. In the case of biodegradable objects in landfills they do infact release carbon dioxide and methane. However if composting systems are set up in an organised fashion that carbon will be sequestered and will be useful for agriculture. Obviously no disposable cups are a better option, but biodegradable in the end is preferable. We just need to compost all of the biodegradable material we produce. Between 30-40% of waste is organic, so that is a big deal and most is currently in landfills or being burned. This also underpins another massive problem with modern consumer capitalism, the value of food products to the capitalist market, the subsequent food waste and the inevitable but preventable poverty and starvation.

[@SpaghettiToaster]

@@colainc90 For degradeabilty to be any more CO2 efficient than burning, some 90%+ of all cups would have to be composted efficiently. This is ludicrously unrealistic. I'd wager that less than 0.01% of people in the developed world own an appropriate composting system. In developing countries it's not even worth mentioning. There's no way degradeable cups will ever be viable unless they can be mass-produced more cheaply than regular cups and made the exclusive option in the developing world, or if national-scale infrastructure for their collection is implemented so they can be used in biomass plants. Neither is anywhere close to realistic.

[@dubious6718]

There is a very easy solution, that we use for other stuff, weighing Have a weight/scale, put the cup on it, zero it, fill until it reaches the weight

[@Atownforevilones]

Quite a few of the local coffee shops around where I live actually give a discount if you bring your own cup, or buy one of their reusable cups to use. Even if the reusable items have to be used a lot before they even out, getting in the habit of reusing things vs just tossing everything out is a wise practice. With time that can creep into other areas of your life. Next thing you know maybe you've stopped using plastic water bottles or bags.

[@mich8261]

Nice bit of reporting. Thank you for that. On fully compostables, I remember a shop in Brooklyn used straws made from corn (ethanol?); a woman used one to stir her latte. The look on her face when she pulled out the mangled remains of the straw was priceless

[@SethBocknek]

love the awareness brought to this. although, I always find it unsatisfying when the paper-vs-reusable comparison suddenly starts looking at energy use. I get that wasting energy and wasting water is not good; but they're "renewable" sources-whereas, and maybe this is just me, I feel like rubbish going to landfill is just so much worse than "electrical inefficiency", for example. not to mention, I think the value of getting away from the single-use mindset and into the reusable mindset has so much value in itself. I'm very biased, but I just don't have a lot of time for arguments that tend to diminish the harm of single-use cups. the alternatives aren't "perfect" solutions, but getting people away from that "use it and dispose of it" habit is a massive, fundamental change for humanity.

[@somefreshbread]

You’d really be shocked just how little space is required for landfills, And how many ways we’ve come up with to reuse that land afterwards. Methane produced is also harvested and used as an energy source.

[@aleksandro0610]

yes!!! I totally agree with your opinion

[@RubenRemus80]

@@somefreshbread What about ll the stuff that gets dumped into the ocean?

[@elliotdeclet594]

well here in the US 60% of electricity comes from fossil fuels,its nonrenewable and there isnt enough its a big issue but that isnt even the worse part. Burning fossil fuels is horrible for the atmosphere and contributes a lot to climate change. The methods that get used to harvest them are also horrible for the area. Electrical inefficiency is really downplaying the problem

[@zukomoyer6912]

@@RubenRemus80 That tends to happen from countries that are close to the ocean and are still developing the proper garbage infrastructure and culture (not throwing your trash on the ground or in the river, as we used to at one point in America also).

[@CyberlightFG]

Does the calculation include the lid?

[@masstwitter4748]

Wondering the exact same thing - the impression I got was no.

[@amgoo12]

Paper costs much more energy to make than plastic per gram so it won't make a big difference. Assuming the plastic is thrown in the trash and recycled and not thrown into the ocean of course.

[@masstwitter4748]

@@amgoo12 Thanks - appreciate the information on that!

[@RealChrisBaca]

Well done

[@TheDenisedrake]

Excellent information. I enjoy making coffee at home and taking it with me in a reusable mug. It takes less time than going to a coffee shop, less expensive and it is EXACTLY how I like it.

[@Ktrivv]

The energy comparison for things like this is always interesting. Even if a keep cup only just breaks even though in terms of energy, isn’t it still better because less space is being taken up in land fill?

[@JaylaStarr]

I wondered that also

[@ToomanyFrancis]

Simply hand washing a reusable travel cup with soap and hot water is very energy efficient and just as effective as machine washing, by far the most sustainable way to drink anything.

[@TrolldaMeir]

A fully loaded dishwasher is vastly more efficient in terms of energy and water usage than hand washing an equivalent quantity of dishes. So save yourself the hand washing if you can.

[@tom2324]

This is what I've always wondered. We will run out of fossil fuels eventually and be forced to use wind, solar and nuclear. In the meantime if we work on stopping the massive amount of stuff going into landfills and building a culture of reusing containers, surely longterm as a whole it will be better.

[@actuallyjc]

Great video. Very informative. I just want to add a little note to the comparison of the energy used to wash a porcelain cup and to make a styrofoam cup. It could very well be the case, especially when using a dishwasher to wash the ceramic cup and only accounting for the molding of polystyrene to styrofoam cups. However, if you are measuring it from the lifetime of the cups; from raw material extraction(clay vs. crude oil), production & transport, usage(3-4 years with washing vs 1-2 use) and waste(maybe recycled or landfill vs. maybe somewhere photo-degrading in the ocean or not breaking down in landfill), it is should be noted that ceramic cups comes up top. Even in comparison to go reusable PET cups and way more than single use paper cups. In addition, styrofoam is made of styrene, which is a suspected carcinogen and neurotoxin for humans. So, for the public benefit from the environment and health view, styrofoam should now even be presented as a choice. Another thing, I disagree with your statement that we are pretty much wasting out time if we're only changing from paper cups(which also has its issues with land degradation for forestry) to ceramic cups. We are actually doing the environment a huge favor. Is that enough of a lifestyle change to make significant impact? No, but that does not mean that we are pretty much wasting our time washing these damn cups.

[@adamglen5741]

As regards to the volume of keep cups, I always inform my customers of the volume of the drinks I prepare eg my flat white is 6oz so that is the beverage size you will be receiving, always followed by 'is that ok?' In doing so the customer knows what they will be getting and as long as you weigh out the water or milk on your end, you're still delivering the beverage that you want to serve. Which is important!

[@meepage332]

Adam Glen This is what I do too, communication is key and I’ve not had a single customer have issue with it either.

[@davdavdav123]

Adam Glen True. I could imagine it being quite difficult though to get the measurements spot on. Unless you’re working with a automatic milk dispenser.

[@TheJoshpshay]

I own Ground Up Roastery and we found another option! There are a few companies that make what's called "backyard compostable" cups that don't require commercial compost facilities. Cost is more per cup but we feel it is worth it knowing every cup that leaves will not contribute to waste no matter where it is disposed.

[@moyni89]

Although the porcelain cup takes the same energy to clean as to make a disposable cup, it doesn’t immediately end up in landfill or the sea like a disposable one does, which causes lasting damage to the environment. Energy will also be expended transporting the disposable one to landfill or wherever it ends up. I think this makes reusable cups significantly better than their disposable counterparts. When comparing alternatives, it’s important to consider the impact of cups after it they have been used, not just in terms of energy usage to make!

[@antonb9459]

Even if you'd throw it in the sea it won't really harm the environment. It will probably end up as sand

[@TheAkashicTraveller]

@@antonb9459 They have plasic in them. Admitedly that ship has sailed given plastics are everywhere and even inside everyone already.

[@MrCalebgrayson]

i told my customer this in 1998 when the paper cup movement hit Detroit - pre Star Bucks. i was using plastic foam cups and was lambasted for it, but the same plastic that made my cups was also lining the paper cups they wanted me to switch to. additionally, my cups WERE recyclable as they we only one type of material. also they were mostly air - foamed plastic - or about 2% the plastic in a clear/cold cup which no one ever complained about.

[@LemonGrinder]

Idea - for coffee shops concerned about dirty reusable cups or unknown size, they could make the coffee in a porcelain cup and just pour it into the reusable one! No handling dirty drinkware and they can use a cup of known size.

[@christopherfeatherley]

That's a really good idea, and definitely a eco cautious one 😁 The only reason why I can't see that being implemented is because people who usually get coffees are in a hurry -- it's all about convenience to them -- and so if you're known as that one cafe place where you basically "have to bring your own cup", it will most likely deter customers and they will go wherever, even if it's more expensive or farther away. It's a shame, yes, people will put convenience over the Earth, but that's why our modern world has so much disposable items: for the temporary convenience. My suggestion is perhaps to mass produce either mushroom micellium cups or cups made from coffee ground resin (both are 100% biodegradable, but are expensive to produce). That way they don't loose the customer aspect, gain the environmental friendliness, but I do understand the price of their products will have to be raised. I know coffee is already overpriced as is, so perhaps they can cut it from that area 😅😁 Just my idea

[@cdgonepotatoes4219]

Carry around a thermos if you want to be on the move, the earlier you wash it after drinking the coffee the less and milder water you'll need to use in order to wash it properly. I just solved the green coffee problem, everyone!

[@spqa2004]

I have been using a stainless steel insulated mug for 6.5 years. After finishing my drink, i wash it immediately for the reasons you named. I use it for coffee, yeah water, milk, soda, and even ice cream.

[@DBT1007]

Use clay cup. After u use it, u can throw it away or reuse it. I mean the burned clay. Not just clay shaped to be a cup. But it's not a porcelain or ceramic. Idk the name. Maybe... Terracotta? Idk. Besides it reduce the waste, it also adds some job there. Good for economy. Neverending job there. After u throw away the clay cup, the cup turn into soil. And u can remake it again to be a cup. And the cycle continues like that forever and ever. As long as your region or your country still have soil.

[@cdgonepotatoes4219]

@@DBT1007 that's costly because you need to cook the clay, also terracotta lends itself very badly to be used for drinks.

[@AB-nb2ic]

I'm really surprised that he didn't mention how coffee Tastes clearly better from a porcelain cup than with a bit of that plastic lining from a paper cup melted into it.

[@Sherlika_Gregori]

It’s not the point of this specific video. He’s not talking about taste.

[@butchjohnson9736]

Good video that shows how complex these issues are. The alternatives are not always better. Same goes for paper bags that you replace with plastic bags or electric cars that replace cars with conventional combustion engines. A lot of factors to look at and the answers might not be as simple as they seem.

[@JP-vo7zh]

Thank you James for this material ❤️

[@SWGINSPECTOR]

It's only a fraction of a gram of plastic in a paper cup. If you ever use plastic wrap, buy practically any product in a supermarket or drive a car, the plastic liner pales in comparison in terms of fossil hydrocarbon use. As for the littering and recycling issue, the whole cup can be burned at district heating plants. This is often a more practical and more efficient solution than recycling or composting.

[@guguigugu]

i mean just sit for 10 min and drink from a ceramic in the store, the world will still be here when youre done

[@Rylos277]

That was my takeaway. But much of the world wouldn't make that compromise.

[@Poporitown]

The world might be here, but your job won't.

[@guguigugu]

@@Poporitown get up 10 min earlier if you are so pressed for time

[@reuploadify]

That's fine and all but that would mean getting up half an hour earlier so I could get to the bus half an hour earlier. It's much easier to order ahead of time on my starbucks app and drink my coffee on the bus on my way to work. I also don't drink my coffee in 10 minutes.

[@reuploadify]

@apple aqua 50-100 years for no trees! Bullshit, you know loggers are required to replant trees that they cut down. Seeds that are planted today will be fully grown trees in 100 years.

[@leroythecoffeegeek4611]

Good to see some actual facts in relation to this topic. I think it’s a discussion worth having and continuing. While I agree that the current alternatives to disposable cups are often not much better when you break down the numbers what we might need to achieve first is a shift in people’s attitudes. We too readily use things once and happily throw them away and it’s this behaviour that needs to change first. Sometimes the easiest way to change these sort of behaviours is to transition people to an alternative that’s easy for them accept, even if it’s not actually that much better. In the process you can educate people on these issues and generate demand which can drive the technological change to a truly superior product.

[@s0s0bad]

Sun-baked clay, is the solution in tea shops in some rural tea shop some India. I love carrying a wide mouth food thermos type mug. I can even handshake up my bulletproof coffee when on the road.

[@MakingTheCut97]

My idea to solve the problem is to have reusable plastic take away style cups with RFID chips in the bottom. When you buy a coffee the cup is scanned by the barista and a deposit is put on your card or cash taken. When the cup is empty the cup is scanned and deposited at a drop off point (a shop, or a self service bin) and the deposit is returned by refunding the card or dispensing the cash. The cups could then be cleaned (perhaps by a third party) and returned to the shop. This system could be used as a standard, so many shops use the same cups. Would need a big investment but I’m sure some of the big players in the industry could scrape the money together for a trial.

[@naraic0o]

that is actually a fantastic idea! i hope you've patented it :P will people really carry the cup with them from one day to the next though? and do people usually frequent the same coffee shops consistently enough that they expect to return the cups? maybe if there was a standardised system for the deposits so you could use them in different coffee shops? but then the coffee shop looses their branding on the outside of the cup. also, what would be an appropriate deposit? if it's too low would people treat the deposit as an increase in cost and then dump the cup anyway? they'd probably carry an even worse environmental impact - are products with built-in RFID chips easily recycled? i guess if there was a standardised reusable cup you could just build a deposit into the cups (and omit the RFID) similar to glass bottle tax in some countries, you could have collection centres publicly available, in offices, and cafes. then you could get a discount by returning your cup the next time you buy a coffee, where they give you a clean cup. ugh this problem is hard, and it's only such a tiny fraction of the entirety of the waste we generate. great video btw! thank you :)

[@malkyvich]

This is already done all over central Europe with beer bottles, cans and plastic bottles. Just not coffee cups.

[@peter_smyth]

I've seen a coffee shop near me (BTP?) doing deposits for their branded Keepcups, where you either keep it (buy it), or return it for a refund.

[@walkerskii]

I watched quite a few of your videos but I didn't subscribe until I saw all the work you put into this one! Thank you! 👍

[@m.s.g1890]

I use a mug by Thermos. With a stainless steel walled interior. I started using it when Waitrose stopped giving paper cups with their free coffees. Now it’s permanently in my bag, so it’s easy enough to use for other hot drinks when out. Also, it keeps the drink hot right to the bottom of the mug, even if I’m reading the paper and taking over half an hour to finish. The coffee shops should tell customers to check that the cup they are bringing can handle size of the drink they want. It’s not a great hassle to find that out.

[@sharing111]

Great video topic! Though on the point of porcelain cups: yes, perhaps it uses more energy to clean the porcelain cups (even to 50 times so you say), but you have to have in mind once a paper cup is used, it couldn't be used again in any way and it goes straight to the landfill where it won't and couldn't be decomposed. So what we have would be a still-increasing amount of used paper cups that are impossible to break down versus a 'forever' -- comparatively -- usable porcelain cup.

[@davdavdav123]

Boris Wong James’ point was that for a porcelain cup to be better for the environment than a paper cup you’d have to use it more than 50 times. So a porcelain cup used 50 times and then thrown out is as bad as a paper cup used once and thrown out.

[@evindrews]

​@@davdavdav123 The broader point though, that james is pessimistic about, (I wish he clarified more..) is 50 drinks is nothing. Twice a day for two years in the same cup is equivalent to 292 paper cups over 1,460. And less waste. Imagine how much less garbage everywhere if no one used them. And really all people need is a quick rinse and a good wash every few days. Re-usable cups are exceptionally better and I cant believe james' rather negative take on them.

[@mrsneeklamy]

@@evindrews It’s funny how we can hear different things, I’ve gone back and rewatched that bit about needing to use a porcelain cup (looks like a cappuccino size?) at least 50 times for it to equal the environmental footprint of a paper cup, I don’t hear the pessimism. And I’m surprised at how few uses are needed for the porcelain cup to equal a disposable, I was guessing many hundreds of uses.

[@businessoutsidethelines]

I help manage a non-profit that helps businesses comply with environmental regulations and we spend a lot of time looking at these figures... This is one of the best most comprehensive commentaries on the issue! Here in the states, there is always some sort of outrage mob driving the narrative. For example, in California, a law was passed requiring people to pay 10 cents per bag at grocery stores. The law was written by a plastics industry lobbyist so the bags were "upgraded" to be "reuseable" (which they almost never are)! The reality? Well, the new bags use 10 times more plastic and use went down by 30% thus increasing plastic use for grocery bags. If use had gone down by as much as 90%, it would be a break even but in reality we are putting more plastic into the system! We have the same issue with paper cups. They go in the landfill and yes, compostable cups using polylactic acid (plastic from corn) need to be composted at 140 degrees Fahrenheit or 60 degrees Celsius.

[@OnyxWylde]

I have a reusable cup from each of my favourite coffee shops and I just carry the one that matches where I’m going to be nearest with me

[@srtrujillo]

"Annoying little questions for café owners to answer" is something I feel vert confident to demand and push in order to do a bit more that might help our environment.

[@mjams231]

Thanks James!

[@JapaneseLanguageMentor]

I think we also could consider the long-term factor of "Once everyone has a reusable cup, there will be no need for a paper cup." Of course they need to use it consistently, but in theory, using a reusable cup reduces the energy required to make future paper cups; therefore, using a reusable cup leaves has a smaller environmental impact. (Companies will make less paper cups if there is less demand)

[@trissylegs]

Comments: "Just pour the coffee directly into your mouth hole" Recommendations: "How Many Holes Does a Human Have?" -Vsauce Just what are you trying to imply KZbin.

[@RolandDenzel]

Great video. I've been wondering how (especially in drought stricken California) washing mugs compares to paper cups

[@Nicholas-f5]

Could use solar hot water as well to lessen cost and impact.

[@cecilyerker]

California is in drought because their government is retarded, they could have enough water but for many stupid cumulative decisions

[@DovidM]

You have to consider that Arizona and New Mexico should more or less be in the same boat but don’t have to ration water like California.

[@CORD1BUS]

always (or nearly always) make coffee at home and bring it with you in a reusable flask

[@MickeyBadBad]

Glad to see your old video about cups, I want to open a cafe in my local area, and I'm also wondering if is there any new development on cups that can be used now. The video is 5 years old, so it might be a good time to bring the topic back again.

[@jeancanestri5572]

I carry around a thermal insulated mug. Most coffe shops here in Brazil don't mind filling those. Some of them even encourage using it. It also helps to keep it warm, which is a bonus.

[@GarageWoodworks]

How do you serve to a cup that has no graduations? Measure it before you pour it into the cup or pour out of something with graduations and the difference (before and after pouring) is the dispensed volume. Too obvious?

[@bbf0ab08cb44becfec]

haha

[@wedel610]

I thought you’d be talking about how paper cups change the taste of the coffee.

[@ThePlayahans]

In germany there is a company that provides coffee shops with reusable plastic cup against a 1€ deposit and you Can give it back/exchange it against a new one when buying another coffee (even if they are still dirty)! They‘re called ReCup and really are a step into the right direction!

[@kwas101]

I think another thing to consider is the type of drink sold in an Italian espresso bar vs Starbucks. Most Italian coffees are very small affairs, one or two shots with (maybe) a small amount of milk, can be downed in a minute or two at most. Plus I'm sure I read somewhere that they charge less per cup if you drink standing up at the bar, rather than sit down. This is versus the Starbucks monster size drinks that would take ages to finish, so really the encouragement is to do a takeaway. If everyone sat down and spent the time to drink their massive Starbucks creation, their stores would need to be huge!

[@vato3198]

My university switched to all glass cups some years ago and charges a deposit of 3€ for each. Then there are about 15 spots to return them, where they will be washed and reused instantly. There also is a paper cup option but for an 0,40€ plus on the price and it is biodegradable. Own cups also are accepted and don't require the deposit nor need the extra charge. IMO this is the best that currently is doable. If some chains would agree to on standardized non branded cups, this could also work in much larger scale.

[@sorasam_unofficial]

In Germany, we have a reusable plastic cup system - the so-called Recup - that is available in cafés across many regions in Germany. Instead of ordering coffee in a paper cup, you can order them in a Recup and pay a 1€ deposit. So next time you want to go for a coffee, perhaps even in another city (given that the café in this city also takes part in this system), you can then return your old cup, and order your coffee in a new Recup. Or you just return your cup and get your 1€ deposit back. The used cup will be cleaned in the café’s dishwasher, and is ready to be reused for the next customer. We’ve had this approach in Germany for a few years now, and it’s a pretty neat solution that has worked pretty well so far. Hopefully word spreads around so other countries may follow... :)

[@pierrethetrex6106]

Germany does quite well with these things, like the pfand on bottles

[@acninee]

Was there any study of the impact of handwashing vs. machine washing for cups?

[@DovidM]

Good question. We wash dishes by hand, and rarely use the dishwasher (maybe twice a year). Hand washing uses more water than dishwashers. It also requires more energy to heat the water, assuming that you are hand washing three times a day, and running the dishwasher once a day. sites.psu.edu/math033fa17/2017/10/10/dishwasher-v-s-hand-washing/

[@SVETATVETA]

I get really upset when I see people sitting in the cafe with papercups! Whyyyy?!! May be this needs to be controlled somehow?

[@StefanCatherasoo]

I get upset when baristas hand me a paper cup when I'm not taking away. Their excuse is that there are no more mugs, but i see noone else using a mug in the shop. Guessing they are just lazy to wash them :(

[@SVETATVETA]

@@StefanCatherasoo hate that also. I don't go to the coffee places where ​they serve coffee in paper cups

[@manwiththecigar2606]

I used to work at a Starbucks at a busy airport and we would go through a lot of cups, and I mean A LOT of cups. Sometimes when stocking cups, some cups would fall down the floor because the plastic bag that held the cups was not very sturdy, and unfortunately we had to throw them away

[@havek23]

Some cafes in Portugal don't even offer coffee to-go cause they want you to stay and relax a minute... but even whilst on holiday unfortunately we have too many sights to see and too many places to go that I don't have 15-20min to sit and drink coffee with strangers.

[@aherointrepid]

I just came across this video while catching up on your stuff. The biggest concern now and research coming out of Harvard School of Public Health and other institutions is that the compostable cups and other compostable to go ware, is lined with a PFAS (polyfleurocarbons - see Dark Waters movie) to make them water and liquid resistant. This dissolves serious risky health impacting chemicals directly into the food or liquid during use. It is now being found that composted soil is full of these chemicals now causing real issues environmentally. Food for thought. Thanks for all the fantastic content!

[@spqa2004]

I have been using the same stainless steel insulated mug for over six and a half years. I use it for coffee, water, tea, milk, ice cream, and the occasional soda. I hate throwing away stuff that goes to landfills. I try to immediately and lightly my mug before it becomes "truly dirty". In other words, I don't let it sit overnight letting bacteria grow; i wash it almost as soon as i am done so that i use less soap, water, and heat/energy to clean it. Sometimes, just hot water is enough if i know that i will be using it again within an hour or or two.

[@whoopsies6432]

We used to give a discount if you brought a keep cup, if you brought it back dirty you wouldn’t get the discount. And it’s not that hard to fill a coffee cup of the wrong size.... 6-8 ounce in single shot 9-13 ounce is 2, and after that you ask how many they want..... you can usually do this by looking at the cup

[@AustinWeeks]

I feel like this doesn't even matter. The environmental impact from the drinks we serve is much greater. A pressure for consumers to switch to an alt milk versus cow's milk would have a significantly greater environmental impact than trying to get people to move to a keep cup system.

[@joname841]

we will use ceramic cups in our upcoming coffee shop and additional charge for take out cups (paper cups&lid)

[@Thenatural56-iz5xb]

Smart and economical.....Plus you want people in the shop....

[@thepiecesfit5049]

Simple just sell the drink as advertised. If it fills their custom cup half way then that's all they get. If it overflows dump the excess down the sink. If using a batch brewer might allow for topping off as a courtesy. Also lot of cafe's are now selling their own reusable cups. Just equate the cup to a given drink size and sell to fill those cups. Unfortunately some shops are still using styrofoam cups which are even worse.

[@concert610]

I've been using a stainless steel cup which I use for everything. Keeps the coffee hot longer and keeps water cooler longer. I also try and keep the cup very clean. Just gross to drink from a dirty cup. Some places will rinse out a cup with hot water for you. Great for the 1% of the time when I couldn't wash out my cup before hand. Like you said it's unacceptable to hand someone a dirty cup. Gross. Like you also said. These cups need to be reused many more times before having a positive impact. My cup is labeled as a 20 oz cup but only really only holds 16oz and with no proper markings would make it harder to judge volume. California tried to pass a law making single use plastic water bottles illegal. They also were trying to do away with single use paper cups. While on the surface sounds like a great idea. I think in practice we aren't there yet.

[@mercaaam]

THIS! Is what I was looking for, for so long. Just the idea on itself it's nice, but just using it properly and changing yout habits for a better future are needed!

[@davdavdav123]

Easy solution: never stop drinking coffee, that way you’ll always have your own cup on hand plus you never need to wash it :P

[@shanepasha6501]

David R -right, every time it’s a refill.

[@darienbragg4826]

Really great informative video. I’d be a lot more on board with proposals like the “latte tax” if the government had any real interest in green policy. Like bags and straws, it sounds like paper cups are a small but visible part of a wider problem. Great that we all can make a change, but it won’t mean much without bigger polluters being held to account.

[@mattiviljanen8109]

I used to reuse my paper cups. I rinsed them after use and left them to dry without the lid. The cup survives 20-30 uses, and the lid 5-10 uses. Sadly, I think that's the best option wrt on-the-road convenience and environmental load. Recently I bought a screw-lid reusable plastic cup, which is quite nice. I think I'll keep using it for a long time.

[@jamma246]

Our electricity is moving towards renewables, so I feel that concerns with using up materials and the waste taking up landfills is more relevant. It's something we can address and work on, whereas we'll never fix these issues with non-biodegradable cups.

[@MrTwins95]

As a fellow barista, you are so right about the issues with reusable cups. “Can you rinse this out for me?” And yes they’d be random sizes and it’s like well do I just give them a half full cup? Yeah that’s what they asked for but it just seems weird. I’d hate to give them too little.

[@cmSchollMD]

PAPER CUPS. I think there are 2 simple options. 1. Go back to before styrofoam, (Yuchy taste too). OLD paper cups weren’t lined, so after awhile they DID start to leak. We older ones remember coffee rings staining papers, books, etc. So drink your coffee before it starts to leach out.-about a half hour? and if you’re a slow sipper, have a go cup with you to transfer to yourself. 2. Let coffee shops do like supermarkets, couple cents discount for your own carry cup, (or better yet, surcharge for takeout cup) BUT the coffee shop makes it into their own wash and reusable work cups. Then at the service bar the patron (and server?) pours it into his or her take away cup. ( eventually people will learn the ounces of their cups and remember to atleast rinse it out after use) ( you could let the PROFIT OFF THE TAKE OUT CUP) - not the coffee or handling thereof, go into a pot for the recycling people if you wanted to be extra generous (or punitive to client) --tho’ sometimes ya’ just need that cup a joe even if your travel mug isn’t with you)

[@markdickson3820]

Hard questions and when I think of it I always end up just feeling guilty for the rest of day. After living in USA for last 15 years coming back to uk has been eye opening - no joke, I have 7 different recycling bins/sacks from council, the bags at shops, the paper straws & all the electric cars. I love so much of it as it is a place that is trying but it does feel like some strange decisions have been made albeit with best intentions. The paper straws are not ready for the market, taste awful, get mushy and then infuriatingly they’re not even recycled - at least plastic straws could be recycled. Shopping bag thing, I have a closet that is drowning in bags I’ve bought. Bag idea still a good one on balance but certainly has unintended consequences. I have several reusable coffee containers that I try to use but they never last and I’m absolutely sure I’ve never had one make it to 50 uses so is that a net negative? Feels like we should be able to engineer a disposable coffee cup that is able to be fully recycled. I know when I was gm of restaurant in us, I switched us to a biodegradable plastic straw that cost a little more but was fit for purpose at least (in fairness it was well off area with pop that could & wanted to bare add’l cost). Tbh, with the crazy 2020 going out for coffee seems foreign concept which I remember doing last year but would be an extravagance now

[@Tinman3187]

4:17 I've never worked in a coffee shop so my solution might be dumb but if you have a sink near were you make coffee have a reusable test cup with volume marks on it and fill it with the proper amount of water and dump it into the customers cup to make sure it will work. Note the level of fill and dump out water. Would this not solve that problem?

[@DovidM]

I would just fill the cup with the amount ordered. If they ordered what the shop determines to be 8 oz, then they get 8 oz.

[@Number77712]

Great :) Although I try to avoid placing the pressure on individuals to take environmental responsibility. The ways individuals imagine the world around them and their impact on it is important, but I would say that in a context where most carbon emissions come from a few companies, and most cheaper goods and certainly packaging are made to be disposable/replaceable, it is important primarily because it shapes their expectations of those companies. It is very difficult to make a difference individually and people's growing awareness is best targeted at the companies that make waste (and the necessity of landfill and remanufacture) so hard to avoid.

[@jamesb.ofdesertdistrict567]

0:21 - 0:22 What was that wand???

[@Helsinkisillest]

What are those three companies that you mentioned that separate plastic filming from the coffee cup?

[@Camrographer]

I think the best compromise would be to use a double walled cup with sealable lid. Then add a sterilizing station for customers such as an Autoclave. Yes, the energy component may be intensive but sourcing energy is a surmountable task while unbiodegradable objects are less so.

[@Cubannerd]

I just subbed to your channel. I love coffee and I want to learn more about how the whole industry works.

[@wobblybobengland]

watch?v=a9lARrHV-40

[@DJVARAO]

Finally! Please make this video viral and let people using straws alone.

[@BjorckBengt]

Paper is renewable which is what is important. The next steps are to have the thin plastic layer made from bioplastics (same plastic but made from ethanol made from fx sugar cane) and having all the energy in production and distribution from a renewable source. Porcelain can be equally greenified by using renewable energy. If we just stop burning coal, oil and gas and use what is available instead solves every problem, except littering.

[@BeaDSM]

Yay for energy-based analysis!

[@BenJamin-en3jb]

A combined analysis of energy and material use would be even better, though. Very hard to weigh, of course. What's worse, using a little energy to clean, or a little oil to make disposable plastic? What may be missing in the comparison between reusable and disposable cups (because he only compared the energy used to clean the former to the energy to produce the latter) is the energy needed to recycle or dispose of the disposable cups. You could do a total cost of ownership-like calculation, something like this: Reusable cup, typically gets used a certain number of times. Needs materials and energy to manufacture, creates pollutants. Needs energy and materials to clean in between, cretes pollutants each time. Finally, needs energ and materials to dispose of / recycle, creates pollutants, maybe gives back some materials through recycling. Add up all energy used, materials used, and pollutants created. Now do the same for every cup option, at the amount needed to serve the same number of cups of coffee. Compare. Might still end up at "what's worse, more energy used, more materials used, or more pollutants created?".

[@ArtumTsumia]

I believe that now some shops offer branded, reusable cups. How much one actually needs to reuse them for them to be better than paper cups is probably still quite high (and similar to other reusables, a large segment of people don't actually use them that much before replacing them). This however does address the standardized size factor. A secondary option, assuming the cafe isn't doing anything particularly fancy, is simply making the drink in a different container before transferring it to the one the customer brought. Considering we're talking take away coffee drinks, this eliminates quite a few concerns with what the customer provides while not negatively impacting a healthy amount of drinks though a few either won't be possible or just won't end up quite right.

[@grimguardian7443]

Does any one know the outro song at the end. I feel like I have heard it before and it is driving me nuts because i cant figure it out.

[@grimguardian7443]

I finally found it if anybody else is interested. The song is called "Awkward" by Janet Jones

[@TheSmog0117]

I understand that it may be frustrating to receive a Keepcup dirty and you mentioned its not okay, but I just wonder what would be the alternative option if you are to keep your cup in your car and have no way to clean it? I mean its often just takes a second to rinse and that second will be saved by not having to reach out for a paper cup.

[@timsturk1413]

Brilliant, thank you James....was just having this conversation this morning. Have seen a recycling plant in Cumbria for paper cups, James Cropper Paper...brilliant, plastic linings not a problem!

[@breindigob]

only thing i can say to further support porcelain vs paper is that at least its not confined to the trash after 1 use, and it can break apart more easily than plastics when they are thrown away??

[@shaunaisaJellyBean]

I’ve never expected a barista to clean my cup but if I use it on my commute and I want a coffee at lunch time, there’s going to be a drizzle in the bottom, I’m aware of that, I’m ok that it’s there, I’m choosing to use my own cup

[@David-vs9ci]

In South Korea there is now a law that coffee owners must give mugs or glass cups for people who will drink inside. I think this is very good as it also a much better drinking experience than a disposable cup and if it’s a little bit better for the environment than that’s awesome too. A while ago Starbucks was selling these $1 reusable plastic cups in the US also which I thought were a good replacement to stop some waste; I imagine it was similar to the 15 reuse times to make it better. They might still have them idk

[@danielichinose8408]

Great video James! Recently discovered your channel and became a fan. Would love to see something similar on coffee bags...

[@PrincessMicrowave]

There's also the issue that some chain coffee places will not put your coffee in reusable cups. Tim Hortons in Canada will not. McDonald's also will not, even if you walk in (as opposed to using the drive thru)

[@vulcanprincess1584]

at starbucks our plastic cold cups our recyclable--till the necessary sticker label is put on them (we no longer write on the cups normally), then they're not recyclable. and most customers dont throw the cups into the correct bin anyway.

[@BrotherCheng]

3:00 I honestly do not understand why a study comparing reusable and disposable cups would compare the energy consumption of making the cups. The whole premise of the problem with disposable cups is that they have plastics in them and hard to recycle, therefore contributing to a growing waste problem. Energy consumption of making these cups have never been the point of contention here. Comparing energy usage of making the cups and making conclusions like "you need to use the porcelain cup hundreds of times to make it 'worth it'" is completely avoiding the waste issue, aka the *main* problem we are trying to tackle here. These cups don't take that much energy to make anyway. This kind of reminds me of the plastic bag vs reusable bag argument I see sometimes.

[@patisulambert5669]

That plastic interior coating explains why these cups don’t degrade in my compost pile!

[@fightpollution]

is the reusable cup you show made from plastics? if so does it not leach chemicals when you drink hot beverages from it?

[@IvanRossS]

Simply redesign a cup !!! Cup can be made with a very dense thick paper it will not pass water for a while and then maybe couple of hours later coffee start to leak and then you can toast that paper cup, later cup like that will be much easier to recycle and if it will be left somewhere else as a trash, itwill dissolve on its own in a couple of months like any paper lol

[@s.williamshay6702]

I've always liked how a profitable industry can easily convince consumers that the industry isn't responsible for the cost of thier pollution.

[@MrGateKing]

A lot of people have travel mugs. There should be a system where the coffee shop makes the coffee and just pours it into our travel mug.

[@havingicecream]

I really really like that you brought up all these details around the topic of reusables! great video

[@lincolnkarim1]

As you mentioned, part of the problem is individuals who need to define themselves by the cup they hold in their hand. Perhaps low self esteem, or other social defects in those individuals. I initially appear to be a weirdo when I produce my own cup, plate or glass container at a cafe or pastry shop. I frequently get the old "the Department of Health prohibits us from serving you in your own containers"A stern "Department of Health My Ass!" usually brings a manager quickly to help me save a cup or box. I believe that 'fashion' dictates people's behavior even in thoughtful/less choices.Wholefoods, at least in NYC, simply do not provide plastic clam-shells for their buffet food. Instead, customers must use their plain brown unmarked food containers which are unattractive, unmarked and doesn't improve the appearance of the food. But since it is trend-setting Wholefoods, their fickle customers has no problem going along with it. No one wants to be the odd-ball or weirdo, so there must be a trend for any positive impact to be felt.