Jasnah's Elsecalling | WOR 7-8 | Lost in Roshar Ep. 48

[@ciaranirvine]

So on the rhythms, my take was that the rhythms exist independently of the Parshendi themselves. They are a fundamental part of Roshar itself, either a side-effect of the three Shards, or by Adonalsium's original design. The Parshendi, being the actual natives, can "tune in" to the various rhythms, like an old radio set. And some of those rhythms at least are on a repeating loop, so the Parshendi use the Rhythm of Peace to tell time. And that's also how they all sing in time, they all just tune in to the same rhythm to keep the beat - so the rhythm is acting like the drum and bass in a classic rock band. There's also a few times when it is hinted some of our human characters become briefly and vaguely aware of the rhythms, but not being native to Roshar they can't quite tune in properly and don't really understand what they are sensing.

[@LostinDiscovery]

Love this explanation, thank you!

[@marbrocu]

This explanation is correct. You can also see this phenomenon on mist born era 1. When they hear the rhythm of the well of ascension.

[@loganstaark9411]

1:02 there's one character in the cosmere who's known for his drip. That's Adolin. There's no other choice

[@Mum347]

The reason why Testament wasn’t following Shallon in Shadesmar at the time of the shipwreck is because her friend was watching over her. He set up his shop in the area where she generally stayed. Adolin sees her in RoW when they’re in Shadesmar traveling to Lasting Integrity and the shopkeeper tells him about her. Love this channel and the way y’all dive deep into the meanings of things!

[@madalynnr9940]

Shallan had an easy time soulcasting the ship because the ship also wanted to help its crew so she was able to convince the ship that turing to water would help them. Whereas the stick didn't want to be fire

[@christopheryoder8292]

So, y'all said you would be really excited to have someone have a chat with stones. Well, Ch 83 of RoW starts with Urithiru/Ur has stones "whispering" to Venli about how they remembered being a mountain and many other things.

[@ksauce7]

I picked up The First Law after hearing it talked about so much on this podcast. I’ve gone through the first trilogy, the stand-alones, and I’m finishing Sharp Ends now. I hope the Age of Madness holds up to everything else so far.

[@passdoutcouchpotatos]

Fascinating, i hate-read through the First law. It was such a disapointing series read for me.

[@ksauce7]

@@passdoutcouchpotatos It definitely isn’t a a style for everyone. They aren’t the kind of stories that make you feel good or have happy endings. Very different tone from Stormlight, even considering Kaladin at his lowest points.

[@LostinDiscovery]

That’s awesome! Age of Madness is still one of my favourite reading experiences ever. I hope you enjoy it!

[@CodyTaylor115]

I just finished the conclusion of oathbringer and when they awaken those thunderclasts there were huge fused spirits in shadesmare waiting for a host body

[@carsonletts7641]

Can't tell if it has already been said, but I think that the Ideal it takes to summon your Shardblade is dependent on the Order. Szeth is of the Third Ideal and has never summon his Shardblade. Syl wouldn't say anything about it until the Third Ideal, but Wyndle basically all but spells it out to Lift before she has sworn the Third Ideal. I think it may just depend on the Order

[@TheDiabeticGameMaster]

Talking about rereading the Dalinar flashbacks reminded me of one of my favorite unexplained little moments from the series. It's stuff like this that has me hooked and makes me keep coming back, lol. Do y'all remember when Gavilars party was at a political feast during a High storm (might've been the first time Dalinar met Evie)? He was sad because his knife could barely cut into whatever crustacean type steak they had been eating. So, Dalinar, complete madman that he is, he walks to the barred door and walks right out of the Storm shelter to attempt to retrieve his favorite knife from a cadet he has lent it to in a nearby but different storm shelter that was housing the common men. Eventually he does find a good knife but only after pulling it out of the body of a would be assassin that had just tried to kill Gavilar with it. In between those two events tho, as Dalinar was walking in the High storm, he could see giant, glowing spren in the distance, wild, unknown, lanky giants that the fans have taken to calling Storm Striders. And Dalinar, he basically just flips them off, lol I still think about that all the time. Just one wild event in a large series of them and one more mysterious magical entity to throw atop the pile, lol.

[@sunspren]

TurboTax Assistant Sylphrena has entered the chat.

[@cookiediangelo8511]

I have a theory for Kaladin's fifth oath that I thought of once you guys started talking about all the lirin stuff and I'm 90% convinced in gonna happen. 5th ideal is you can’t kill to protect. I think it makes the most sense for Windrunners, kaladin’s arc, and thematically. The oaths go in order, protect, protect those you hate, accept there are those you can not protect. The next step is that you can not kill anyone, not even to protect. Windrunners protect everyone, even those they hate. It makes sense logically as the fifth oath. Rind runners are soldiers, so swearing not to kill is very difficult for them, especially since they will be put into situations where they need to kill. That is why most will never make it to the fifth oath. It means a tremendous sacrifice. And that is why it works. Not killing doesn’t work in war, it is a grand ideal only those at the top can swear to, and fifth oath radiants are at the point where they are somewhat above the usual rules. It just seems grand and difficult enough for it to make sense. Next, kaladin’s arc. Kaladin and lirin have been debating for years about killing to protect. It’s honestly THE debate kaladin has had in his head. Surgeon or soldier. Lirin has taught kaladin’s very ideal up till now. Protect(heal), protect those you hate (Sergio a heal anyone and everyone regardless of what they’ve done), accept there are those you can’t protect (callouses). The other lesson lirin has been pounding into kal is that you can’t kill to protect. Kaladin said at the end of row that they are both right, in their own ways. I think this is the case. Kaladin was right to kill as a soldier and as a windrunner who needed to protect, but a fifth ideal Windrunner does not kill. So when he swears that ideal, then that will be right. This is also where kaladin’s seems to be going. He is not a soldier anymore; he has retired as high marshal, so he is actually in the perfect position to swear not to kill. I know a lot of people hate this theory because they hate lirin, but it makes the most sense. Kaladin's been stewing over the question of whether it's ok to kill to protect since book 1, so it only makes sense that it would have a big conclusion in book 5. Also, Kaladin was right to kill to protect when he did. he hadn't sworn not to kill, so he is allowed to if it means protecting others.

[@stevenhedge2850]

@@cookiediangelo8511 I don’t agree because syl has been pushing that kaladin does need to fight to protect. If the fifth ordeal was not to kill syl would be trying to convince him not to, especially when kaladin starts talking about fighting the singers without killing them or kal not killing fuse. Heck kaladin not killing fused would mean he already does the oath

[@ksauce7]

@@stevenhedge2850It could be argued that “killing” a fused is not really killing them.

[@stevenhedge2850]

@@ksauce7 yeah but it would still be killing the next singer soul the fuse takes over

[@ksauce7]

Not sure if you’ve read The Sunlit Man so SPOILER ALERT This 5th ideal could explain why Sigzil ends up leaving the Windrunners and bonding a High Spren. It would also be poetically fitting for the violence restriction placed on him by his Dawnshard.

[@stevenhedge2850]

@@ksauce7 I don’t know It just feels like it would go against eveything kaladin is if lirin is right and it doesn’t fit the other paths either since killing is a choice. Like protecting others you get and not being able to save everyone strengths you as it also informs your own flaws. But just not killing to protect people? When even your Spren wants you to fight to protect people? It seems like at that point you’re doomed to lose the bond

[@jonvalett6708]

Sanderson and Abercrombie are my two favorite fantasy authors

[@kentnelson775]

Way of Kings cover showing the chasms and majesty of the shard blades and plate transported me to this alien world before i opened the book.

[@CodyTaylor115]

And the stormwall... So cool

[@Sothern101]

Stormlight was what got me back into reading, then straight after I jumped into reading The First Law. I've basically been bouncing between the two, reading the cosmere and the first law standalones since.

[@TheDiabeticGameMaster]

That ain't a bad way to go! I know youve still got plenty to read but do try and expand your intake just a little bit, on occasion. Dont want to burn out again!

[@SnakeAndTurtleQigong]

Also love Abercrombie

[@balazskiss9252]

LOVE Abercrombie and the Cosmere both

[@passdoutcouchpotatos]

I hated Ambercrombie myself. The first law was a major disapointment

[@minerman60101]

I remember hearing that deadeye spren just wander around in Shadesmar, many being at the bottom of the sea of beads aimlessly milling about. They may tend towards the person who has their shardblade but I don't know if they have to be with them, especially if say they're being tended to by living spren. I'm curious to see the source that I'm vaguely remembering which talks about how these spren behave. Also, doesn't Venli talk to the stones in Urithiru in Rhythm of War with her Willshaper powers?

[@Mum347]

I think the part you’re talking about with the deadeyes is in RoW when Adolin sees Testament in a shop and the owner tells him that she had been a friend and that he watched over her to keep her from wandering around. There’s also the part in Oathbringer where the captain explains why he has a deadeye, his father, locked in his hold. And in RoW, in Lasting Integrity, the deadeyes are congregating on the shore and someone explains that they usually follow the person who has bonded them or wander aimlessly if they’re not bonded.

[@minerman60101]

@@Mum347 the Oathbringer one is what I was remembering, thanks!

[@jamesporrell5687]

Also, if anything, the joke should be that you call us listeners the Singers. For so long the PC move was ‘they’re not parshmen, they’re Listeners!’ Then it was ‘they’re not all Listeners, they’re Singers!’

[@Cyclone-wolf]

I have a new crackpot theory. The colors and characters on TWoK isn't a mistake. It's a future scene that Sanderson has literally put on the cover of the book, right in everyone's face, and depicts a scene from the end of book 5. This is my theory for book 5 lol Especially because we now know we get Dalinar on book 5 cover while holding WoK, something he had in the first book. I'm sticking with this until I'm inevitably proven wrong

[@studynot757]

Didn’t we already get some payout of the stones talking motif in RoW with Venli and Uruthiru?

[@mndrew1]

"Knives in the back; everyone attack. It's looking like a barroom blitz. Barroom blitz."

[@mndrew1]

Also: "Thunder! Thunder! Thunderclasts; HO!"

[@TheDiabeticGameMaster]

Hate to be that guy but you'll have an easier time looking up the song if you know what it's actually called: Ballroom Blitz. Not "barroom" tho it does sound like that and it makes a ton of sense.

[@mndrew1]

No, the ballroom blitz was Vin in Mistborn era 1.

[@jamesporrell5687]

I was a strong believer at one point that Yalb was working for the Ghostbloods. He acts all nice to motivate shallan to stick with Jasnah so he had an ‘in’ with them, and indeed Shallan convinces Jasnah to use that ship because surely Shallan couldn’t have any connection to the Ghostbloods, and apparently any random ship might have assassins. It will actually be wild if Yalb or the captain aren’t Ghostbloods.

[@stevenhedge2850]

@@jamesporrell5687 I think that has been debunked now the captain definitely died and yalb wouldn’t be having a hard time finding a job if he was a ghost blood

[@jarrodwakefield4992]

Hoid, but after he loses his sense of fashion

[@Pavle_Savkovic]

No one mentioned Tindwyl for the ball?

[@juanperret7044]

I already had the cover for book 3 when i read words of radiance so i knew Jasnah wasnt dead so it made any moment where the characters acted like she died a bit more than annoying

[@Rhedak]

I think you mixed up Gaz and Bluth

[@kevinmutch9987]

Tyn is the absolute worst character in the SA.

[@stevenhedge2850]

Tyn is the one that pretty much pushes Veil int full existence and i hate her for it.