Jay and Stu talk Doctor Who: Survivors of the Flux

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[@formercrow5242]

I don't know how Chibnall does it, but I have fallen asleep during every single one of his finales. Man really knows how to murder a vibe.

[@k-majik]

The best part about the Great Wall of China scene is that it actually cannot be seen from space, it's a common misconception. So they could have written that message quite literally anywhere else. Never mind the fact that the message subplot basically went nowhere anyway, because they just went through Moleman's tunnels didn't they?

[@Lenny-ue8hk]

How did it become such a widespread belief that a 5m wide wall can be seen from space?

[@KaladinVegapunk]

Haha oh, someone already commented this. I commented the same exact thing above you It's a really bizarre misconception since it's very obviously not true, it makes no sense It's up there with the myth that people thought the earth was flat til recently for something with zero basis haha

[@someonenotworthyofonestime5019]

@@KaladinVegapunk It's because it's a very big thing, even if not big in the sense that'd make you see if from space.

[@B-MC]

Episode 1: Oh no, the flux! Episode 2: couldn't possibly fight the flux, the tardis has gone craazzy Episode 3: couldnt possibly fight the flux, we're displaced in time... Episode 4: couldn't possibly go defeat the world ending event, a weeping angel brought us here and im sure they have a reason... Episode 5: oh no, another flux Episode 6: Tardis is fine now. Everybody's saved. Oh look, a thing that the villains brought with them beats the flux. Whaaat a waste of time. If not for the entertainment of analysis and fallout.

[@ThomasStevensontutor]

Yaz' pot could be a metaphor for the whole series; clearly empty despite supposedly holding great significance.

[@stephaniepage4334]

Yeah

[@teneleven5132]

Something just occurred to me, when you were talking about the insanity of the doors leading to dan and yaz 3 times in a row, that reminded me of the tardis. And now I'm thinking, they could have actually tied that in with the early section involving all that black goo and weird stuff going on in the tardis and explain it as the flux damaging the tardis to an extent that it started connecting random times and places, but since it's a tardis and semi-conscious, it tries to be as helpful as possible in doing so, giving the characters a way to go from place to place.

[@matteosignor4256]

That's actually an interesting idea that someone could build on.

[@ftumschk]

1:34:30 Good news - the founding of UNIT hasn't been retconned. Lethbridge-Stewart tells us in The Invasion: "since the Yeti do, I've been in charge of an independent intelligence group we call UNIT. United Nations Intelligence Taskforce". Note, he's been _put in charge_ of UNIT, so he's not claiming to have founded it, and it could have been in existence prior to "the Yeti do". I was more annoyed that Chibnall made Lethbridge-Stewart a Corporal, which he never would have been. He was educated at Sandhurst military academy, where even the _students_ hold an officer's rank - "Officer Cadet" specifically. What's more, Sandhurst almuni enter the Army with the minimum rank of 2nd Lieutenant, which is a couple of rungs up the ladder from Sergeant, never mind a mere Corporal.

[@tovarischkrasnyjeshi]

Another comic relief character was Nardole with 12. He wasn't even part of the plots a lot of the time, but still served a purpose in the big picture and even moved episodes along that didn't directly have anything to do with why he was a companion of a sort by doing things no one in particular needed to do

[@tovarischkrasnyjeshi]

constantinople is istanbul, turkey why don't you two know basic geography? It's like when you thought the Crimean city of Sevastopol, featured in the episode about the Crimean war, was in India instead of Crimea.

[@phoenx8435]

@@tovarischkrasnyjeshi maybe it just isn’t their strong suit? Pretty basic answer

[@verbatims6423]

46:00 hi Jay, I feel seen! I haven't watched any of Flux, but watched all of these streams, and Mole Man has been by far the most enthralling part of the entire series 🕳️🕳️🕳️ so glad we finally got to see his hole. TV event of the year

[@davidturner1595]

I've also been watching only the archives. I don't feel like this is something I need to comment, but Jay told me to comment it.

[@reinerskye9328]

Hey Jay, Haven't watched an episode of Doctor Who since, series 9, episode 2, but here i am 22 episodes into this podcast and I'm glad to hear of the glorious purpose of that guy's holes.

[@greghawkins59]

That long welsh town name caption should definitely have a the typewriter effect and noise.

[@4203105]

The Great wall of China being able to be seen from space is a myth btw. Unless you zoom in, but if you zoom in, like you said, you can see pretty much anything from space.

[@BrankoVT]

It's too thin to see.

[@EasternStandardTim]

Everything they did with Dan, could have been given to Yaz, then maybe we would have had ONE slightly fleshed out character, rather than a Tardis full of cardboard cutouts

[@greghawkins59]

Stu: shall we do the stream? Jay: I MUST KNOW ABOUT THE HOLES

[@TheNoonish]

These are holes that take characters exactly to where they need to be in order to advance the plot. I think of them as "plot holes."

[@duomechtra1234]

Man, the Doctor being a weeping angel turns out to have such a lame payoff.

[@stephaniepage4334]

I agreed

[@nifralo2752]

Swarm killing Techteaune, was likecrhe Master killing Ashah in the Timeless Childern, blink and you miss it and the main villian is insta dead. I guess so the dr dont have to fight both at once

[@potterlover96]

I genuinely wonder if Chibnall wrote Tecteun as the one causing the flux just so he could put in the bit where she confirms to the Doctor what the Master showed her in 'The Timeless Children' as a big middle finger up to everyone complaining about that story line

[@spilltheteaspillthetea]

Diss Chris Chibnall one more time and I’ll set Jack Robertson and the Defence Drones on you.

[@duomechtra1234]

that'll be a fun time coz at least TrumpMan is unintentionally funny.

[@brisklloydavator]

Chibnall are bad

[@berserkasaurusrex4233]

@@duomechtra1234 Not even joking, he's the best character in this era of the show, and it's totally by accident.

[@foxtail-pip]

The companion time frame was so confusing,, 3 years? They act like they've barely just met, but that's longer than I've been in a relationship what

[@frog9763]

(Finale spoilers) And when Jericho dies, Dan and yaz don’t react at all? Like, the man you’ve just spent years with just died are you not at least a little sad? Emotions? What are those?

[@ZatoichiBattousai]

Jodie is worse then Colin Baker's time as the Doctor, but if she strangled someone, at least that would give her some character

[@mtylerw]

I have only been watching the streams. I love you guys. Much more enjoyable than the last few seasons.

[@berserkasaurusrex4233]

Seems like every nuWho Doctor has at least one (and typically several) very good all-around episodes. 9 had "Dalek", "Father's Day" and "The Empty Child/Dances". 10 had several very good stories, "Blink", "Silence in the Library/Forest", "Turn Left" and more. Once Moffat took over, the really good episodes became less frequent, but 11 still had several, like "The Eleventh Hour", "Amy's Choice", "The Girl Who Waited", "Day of the Doctor". Late 11 era generally had fewer good episodes, and by Capaldi's 12, I only really ever hear people mention "Heaven Sent" as a very good episode, though there are a few other honorable mentions. Is there even a single really good episode from Whitaker's 13? I only ever really hear about the giant spider episode, and that's just people pointing out how idiotic and cruel Whitaker's 13 is and how the Trump-wannabe guy is actually more humane (and fun) than the fake Doctor. Chibnall's had 26 episodes to get one right for 13, and Eccelston had at least 4 really excellent episodes despite only half as many episodes as Whitaker.

[@laviarray]

First off, 12 has several good episodes in his run too such as Mummy on the Orient Express, Flatland, under the lake, before the flood, Smile, Thin Ice, and The Doctor Falls. However, while his era wasn't perfect, Peter Capaldi was always given moments in every episode to be the The Doctor. Not only are all of Jodie's episodes weak, she doesn't even get any good moments to be the Doctor until Flux and even then they weren't great.

[@TheJadedJames]

Heaven Sent is the obvious definitive Capaldi episode. But among the other standouts are stuff like Flatline, Listen, World Enough and Time/The Doctor Falls ... Capaldi had and incredible run, especially his last two seasons

[@TheJadedJames]

@Fancy hat Series 10 is great overall. It really helps that Nardole and Bill are 1000x better than Whittaker’s companions

[@concon09090]

@@TheJadedJames the fact that we only got one season with them because we had to move on to the fam keeps me up at night

[@TheJadedJames]

@@concon09090 I've made my peace with Bill and Nardole only getting one year on the show. I get with the showrunner change, there would come a soft reboot where supporting characters get written off. But jeez ... Yaz is going to end up being the only companion to do 3 full series. YAZ! How is Chibnall even going to write Yaz off with the apparent romance hints?

[@inofficialplaytester3271]

I've only been watching these instead of the series, im that guy XD

[@ExhaustedWombat]

Here’s a thought, what if the information they were chasing during the Nu-Fam’s archaeological adventures pertained to places and times Williamson was going to turn up. And the Doctor’s holographic message gave some vague information that started them down this path. At least this would given a reason they keep crossing paths and do all their bullshit.

[@fraserjackson]

I think(!) that the comment from "Percy" about the Grand Serpent hardly ever being around is supposed to suggest that he is time travelling, and just dropping in and out of the UNIT time stream at the right times to get promoted to the position where he can let the Sontarans in.

[@BearTheFourth]

I'm in the "only watching these reviews" gang. I truly can't be bothered to watch any more Chibnall Who because season 11 bored me to death; at least you guys manage to make it fun.

[@Kranitoko]

In episode 3, just before the angel arrives, it's clear the Doctor has left the console room to somewhere else in the TARDIS as she and Dan walk in to see the Angel after Yaz calls out, so it's VERY POSSIBLE she recorded it then.

[@Joefish052]

The Timelords should have used a fob watch as the storage device for the Matrix. Seeing as one can handle all the Doctor's memories, and the other one can't

[@concon09090]

AAAAA I DIDN'T EVEN THINK OF THAT THAT'S SO FUCKING STUPID

[@Yan_Alkovic]

The whole point of having Dan around was so that EVIL DAN could be born. I'd say it was worth it. But yes, having real characters would've been nice.

[@60wattmoon]

I know it has stiff competition, but the scene with the hermit is, to me, the absolute worst scene Chibnall has ever written. It is the only scene in 13 seasons of nu-Who that I have actively skipped due to cringe. It just felt like a deleted scene from Ghostbusters (2016) slapped in the middle of Doctor Who. The tonal whiplash is violent. I've never liked Chibnall's sense of humour, but that was the pinnacle of bad timed and just plain bad comedy.

[@TheSmart-CasualGamer]

I mean, at least Ghostbusters: Answer the Call is tonally consistent to itself!

[@homeworksdone2378]

Another problem I just realized as Jay was zooming through the episodes: So. Many. Face. Closeups. It bothers me now that I see it, I can’t unsee it.

[@EasternStandardTim]

That wouldn’t be a problem in and of itself, but since those close ups are never great acting moments, where it would be helpful to see their emotion up close, they end up just being close ups of bored looking people

[@formercrow5242]

It's such a chibnallism, also amusingly the opposite problem classic who has

[@frog9763]

Literally, I was watching either ep5 or ep6 and Jodie was really close up and the entire scene I was having a crisis like geT awAy from mE

[@katarinabrunk8698]

​@@frog9763 I'm imagining this and laughing so much lol, but yeah same 😂

[@katarinabrunk8698]

yeah same, I fucking hate the cinematography of Chibnall era, way to dramatic and way to up close on EVERYONE all the time, god how I miss the old cinematography

[@greghawkins59]

Oh god I wish i hadn't seen these episodes and just watched this stream

[@bookwermofthefandoms]

I haven't seen the episodes and I watched the stream

[@greghawkins59]

@@bookwermofthefandoms i envy you

[@UselessFingThing]

Excited to hear how Hole Man pays off!

[@AlmeaCulpa]

"Goodbye archive viewers, you can now click the next video in the playlist" I feel so seen

[@samrichardson5971]

Just so weird of them to reintroduce Tnetennba just to kill her off instantly.

[@Ren-zg7nu]

Honestly I thought maybe that The Grand Serpent had a weird psychic ability to make people irrationally mad because it happened with the over my dead body guy and Kate

[@jopearson6321]

46:15 I was excited to hear about the thrilling payoff to Holes Man. Let's hear it...

[@jopearson6321]

Eh.

[@hada__02]

To be fair, the Grand Serpent, as a well spoken English white man telling the Unit guy that he deals with vaguely similar things to him and immediately being invited to join his secret organisation is fairly accurate to the utter incompetence rife in the British secret services

[@duomechtra1234]

I was there with the original audio "fuckup". YOU CAN'T HIDE THE TRUTH!!!

[@TRGOTSVODS]

35:50 To be honest, in a vacuum around just episode 3, I could totally see the doctor recording something just in case she gets separated from Yaz, because she was moments away from losing Yaz not too long ago. The problem is that we don't ever see that happen 💀

[@aionicthunder]

I think that three Doctors probably would’ve had to do some proper thinking about if they would’ve preferred to have a different life to the one they led: the War, 9th and 10th Doctors. The Time War and its impact is immense, to the point where the War Doctor can’t even call himself The Doctor. But the 11th and definitely the 12th would not wish for a life not their own

[@concon09090]

12 especially was so fucking chill later on, especially in Series 10. He was just happy to sit in his office in his pyjamas playing his guitar, going on regular adventures with Bill and Nardole. Absolute chad.

[@enjoysilence4146]

Hi, I'm writing as requested to say I've never seen a single Chibnall episode of Who but love these streams

[@TheJadedJames]

The last episode I actually watched the the Series 11 finale. Basically everything I know about the show after that comes from reviews I that are probably a million times more entertaining than actually watching the show

[@tombstonedweller6973]

As an artist I relate to the cybermen cause im constantly deleting shit

[@gammonspeaks7937]

why did you cut away the great intro where you were muted? it was my favorite part.

[@user-sr5vu5lz8k]

I wouldn’t even be mad that Yaz and Dan aren’t with the Doctor for most of the season IF it was in service of an actual plot line and character development. Like what if, instead of Yaz already being hyper competent in episode 1, her separation could serve a character arc where she learns to be more self reliant. It could culminate in the 1901-1904 story here where YAZ figures out how to get back to the 21st century without the Doctor. Dan could have been a character. And have some arc at all. Jericho is perfect no notes.

[@teneleven5132]

Oh god, this is the episode with that 5-second travel montage

[@leejones8582]

And Neil is in the Flux.

[@tobylerone4285]

Jay if you really don’t know that Constantinople is now Istanbul you should maybe think about acquiring one A level 😂😂

[@luke-alex]

I don't think the tunnels went to random places, I think they went to the places that they needed to go to to allow the universe to basically save itself.

[@matteosignor4256]

So for the plot to happen

[@anthonysaylor8120]

I just had the strangest sense of deja vu around the 1:39:00 mark. Like I had some memory of Jay saying the bit about mangled dialogue for the sake of a pun in that exact delivery, and this was the first time I heard the actual video.

[@TheNoonish]

"Your snake powers won't work on me because I have a psychic manifest shield!" "Ah, but my Power Snake ability allows me to DESTROY your manifest shield, leaving you open to attack!" "You just activated my trap card!" "Nani?!"

[@fonkedonke]

Could someone explain to me how the flux messes with time. I rewatched episode 1 and it said it was something with unknown properties that destroys stuff, then in episode 2 we just have to accept that the flux is messing up the vortex flow, but how? I don't get it Edit: could someone also explain the goo in the tardis, how does the flux make that happen?

[@matteosignor4256]

I don't understand why people are confused about this, it was because the doctor threw vortex energy from the TARDIS on the flux. Now why it affects only them like that is something only Godnall knows.

[@matteosignor4256]

For the edit.... Idk the doctor says the TARDIS does not like it.

[@fonkedonke]

@@matteosignor4256 Thanks, somehow I missed that. I guess it only effects the main characters because plot needed to happen Edit: I rewatched the ending of The Halloween Apocalypse, it makes a lot more sense on how it affects time now. But you're right, it only affects time when convenient

[@SuperCrazyfin]

I cannot believe Stu sung the song and then said "Iraq or Iran"

[@greghawkins59]

They don't even stay by the mural ay the great wall of China, so if karvanista did time travel to see them he could easily miss them.

[@BrankoVT]

Or if he Timetravelled to before they showed up by the wall. They only gave him a location and a year. They would need to stay there for a year for the plan to work.

[@greghawkins59]

@@BrankoVT true, he'd need to hide out of the way until they had finished tho

[@kylejones8289]

To be fair, Karvanista seems to have some instinctual ability to find Dan based off of previous episodes, so if he was in 1904 he should be able to find them anywhere. It doesn't fix the numerous other things that make this sequence incredibly stupid, though.

[@elizabethissleeping846]

20:43 stu listens to the residents?

[@Stubagful]

yeeeeaahh! someone recognised that!

[@leejones8582]

That Timeless Child crap could not care less.

[@toothfairy10133]

i havent even watched flux im just going through jay's videos to get an idea of what happened

[@doctorwhat5719]

The Grand Serpent and the couple’s storyline did not need to be in this season.

[@wazappoful]

So much of this series i so bogged down by filler

[@ki3rans993]

Anyone notice how the professor guy doesn’t have a beard when they start to paint the message, then when they finish he has a full beard

[@llamarama6976]

The biggest thing ive learnt off this is that cris chipnell does not understand how explosives work nor how to use them effectively.

[@chriswaine4101]

Yaz and Dan could have just naturally have been looking for a way to get back to the present or the Doctor, and learn of weird evidence of a time travelling Victorian like the man they know showed up in the Temple of Atropos and have that lead them to the tunnels. But the plot just in general seems to be written as though it doesn't matter whether it fits together. It wants to try to be exciting all the time and the audience are expected to enjoy it in a kind of tunnel vision.

[@Warmishcookies]

Or! They are already in England at the end of episode 4. They find a door in space that leads them to mole man. Mole man does some explaining and they go through another door to modern-Ish day. Then we can see the companions interact directly in a story revolving around more of the stuff with grand serpent and Kate Stewart. Like… I don’t understand why that wasn’t the episode.

[@berserkasaurusrex4233]

Of course, the Great Wall of China can't be seen from space, not with the naked eye anyway. So the whole scene is even dumber than it already appears. Also, the whole Wall Message scene is just a ripoff of River Song's "Hello Sweetie" message from the beginning of "The Pandorica Opens" from the first Matt Smith finale, and at least River had sense enough to write it in something other than English.

[@kylejones8289]

Not to mention that that used a fictional landmark, and it was done in a way that could reasonably last the thousands of years the episode claimed. That makes way more sense on pretty much every level.

[@lachieechoecho]

42’54” The really, really funny thing is. The Great Wall can’t be seen from space. Ask anyone who’s been on the International Space Station. The reason is, yes it’s very long. But think about it for a second. How wide is the wall? That’s why.

[@petedarock1521]

when you cant think of an explanation, a hole did it

[@chrisk3824]

I'm here for the hole-man

[@greghawkins59]

My love for mole man is strong

[@cosmoreverb3943]

I've only been watch the streams, and I feel I'm better off for it

[@JRexRegis]

Jay can we please get a tmeline of these videos

[@bookwermofthefandoms]

Ive been watching the streams and not the episodes!!

[@jannyjan90]

Not gunna lie... actually found the extract from the book Stu read more interesting than the entirety of FLux Also now off to go aand get said book

[@LukasOfTheLight]

Just to say this: the Great Wall of China cannot be seen from space.

[@KaladinVegapunk]

Great wall of china being seen from space is a massively bizarre misnomer that definitely isn't true hahah, it's tiny That "everyone knows that" is wrong You can't see it from space. Grand canyon you can definitely see, but not the great wall Obviously with a massive zoom, definitely, but that applies to everything

[@magosofmars8410]

Ive recently started re watching doctor who as i fell off when Tennent left and I’m really not looking forward to these later series

[@stephaniepage4334]

I'd like to see michael sheen, Eddie radmayne, kris marshall or rupert grint play next 14th doctor who& is time doctor who biological parents?

[@formercrow5242]

I'd say no definitely don't show the Doctor's bio parents, that plot line will only disappoint fans and casual viewers won't care as they don't understand the significance.

[@TPH250290]

A lot of people were suspicious that Bel and Vinder would be revealed as the Doctors' parents, which would've been the final nail in the coffin for this show. Thank god that didn't happen.

[@NerotheGame]

Jay if you make a vid on flux you should have chair bouncing sounds whenever you get heated.

[@doctor1206]

I think BBC could make a show with Stu and Jay instead of Doctor Who... Worst series ever.... And Constantinople is the actual Istanbul

[@Ben-wx7kk]

A possible way to fix Bell's stormtrooper aim against Karvanista literally already exists in episode 1. In episode 1, the doctor disables karvanista's weapons on the ship when she infiltrates it.... why not say that this ability to disable weapons on the ship can disable ALL weapons, not just his. The ship is for carrying humans to safety, against their will... so it makes sense to have technology that can render any weapons they sneak on board useless.

[@wazappoful]

Honestly, Kate Stewart always feels like they're building up to something good with her, but she's always felt kinda weak and limp to me

[@wazappoful]

that being said, i haven't listened to any of her audio stories

[@StarkRavn]

48:18 cu-m

[@greghawkins59]

Stuart's way of looking at it is definitely the best, it's utter nonsense but just remove the analytical goggles and enjoy the silliness. I also love how jay is unable to respond to him saying that 😂 too annoyed at the shitness of the show

[@AC-jl7hb]

First of all Doctor was not adopted, she was stolen. And the argument that her life is not shit now so she cant be resentful is bizzare to me. She was someone's kid, she was loved by someone, she lost her parents! Not only that, she was abused and experimented on! How do you not see how horrible and traumatic that is! And that is the cost of the life she has now. She has every right to be upset.

[@nifralo2752]

Yes, but remmber the Dr doesn't remmber anything b4 Hartnel.

[@AC-jl7hb]

@@nifralo2752 So? If anything that's worse.

[@nifralo2752]

@@AC-jl7hb but she never cared about her past before. Like has the Doctor ever once mentioned her parents before? No

[@concon09090]

Her memories being wiped kinda invalidates that though. She's lived a 100% separate life from childhood to now since that stuff happened. It'd be like learning that reincarnation is real, and that in a past life, some random person you've never met in this life abused you. You'd be weirded out, maybe even angry on an intellectual level, but ultimately your emotional investment would be very low, because at the end of the day, *that wasn't really you*.

[@evelynrawson1274]

I hope the grand serpent is rassilon

[@velvetvandal]

Re: Yaz overpowering the assassin, she is an ex-cop, so presumably has some training in disarming and subduing people.

[@TheJadedJames]

Look, I haven’t actually watched the show in a long time. But one of my first observations about Yaz is that the show seemed to almost instantly forget that she was a police officer, so I almost can’t blame a critic for forgetting