Jay and Stu talk Doctor Who: Power of the Doctor

[@joansmith69]

My fav part was when Tegan, a 70 year old woman fell down a shaft without any resolution

[@hada__02]

All they had to say was she still had the parachute and it would’ve been fine, I assumed that’s what they did

[@DeepThought42]

One of quite a few rather annoying cuts/gaps, like in the Sea Devils. The rumour was after Chibnall was let go it was in such a bad state the BBC gave it to RTD to edit to see what he could do to make it suitable for broadcast. So imagine what it was like beforehand?

[@DeepThought42]

@beef business Actually it was more than a rumour, was direct from BBC staff contacts to a DW fan who also works in the media/TV/Movie type industry. And this first person I heard it from has credibility, not one to make stuff up. Can't recall his name or who it was or which of the many DW fan groups or channel live discussions it happened in the first time I heard them report this. However now, just before and since The Power of the Doctor, lots and lots of people seem to be saying it, coming from multiple sources, with original sources from BBC staff as well so I'm thinking it could well be true. However, don't hold me to that, you never know until someone directly involved speaks out. Sorry I can't recall where I saw it even in last few days, been just on so much DW social media! Given the similar "hole" problems with the Sea Devils, many seemingly from poor cuts/editing, and its low ratings, I can see the BBC panicking when they thought it still needed refinement/editing before they felt it could be broadcast so asked RTD to do it as Chibnall's contract had ended.

[@4203105]

@@DeepThought42 well this was a rambly mess. Want to try that again?

[@DeepThought42]

@@4203105 Lol, I've had enough for now. Very tired! 🤣

[@NitroIndigo]

"Bradley Walsh lives in a volcano" gets me every time.

[@violatyrant]

I finished the new interview with the vampire episode (which is like extremely intense) and walked into my living room where my parents were watching this episode and witnessed the master wearing the doctor’s clothes and saying he’s the doctor and then getting pushed to the ground by yaz and then playing the outlander theme on a recorder and i had an out of body experience from emotional whiplash

[@4203105]

"the outlander theme" is a pretty famous song from the 19th century.

[@violatyrant]

@@4203105 I assumed so but I’m American and literally only know it from my mom being a fan of that show so it was very surreal lmao

[@enbyennui]

The fact that Davies is really emphasising Tennant=14, Gatwa=15 gives me hope for a fresh characterisation rather than a total return to literally just the tenth doctor again

[@titularhero]

It does mean unlikely to see other doctors :(

[@DeepThought42]

@@titularhero I don't know about that David has kept saying at conferences that we're all in for many surprises being kept very secret. And that his participation had to be made public only because they had to film scenes with him outside in the streets, for all to see. Chibnall also has apparently said he only had past Classic Doctors in it due to what plans there were for the 60th that he had seen. So cross your fingers!

[@TheZebbga]

@@DeepThought42 Capaldi wont be in it because he has litterally said he doesn't want to be in it and Christopher Eccelston has been clear on not wanting to return under RTD. So the only other option is Matt Smith really and he might have been too busy with House of Dragons when the 60th was being filmed.

[@DeepThought42]

@@TheZebbga You never know, they might have been intentionally putting us off the scent. But you're right about Eccelston, not chance. Makes it all the more disappointing he wouldn't join Moffat's 50th. I don't want to think about it too much as would like to be surprised with whatever they do.

[@TheZebbga]

@@DeepThought42 Fair enough, I won't go into more detail as to what I think then since you want to keep it a surprise. Regardless, it is going to be better than what we have been getting for the last few years.

[@kyllerbuzcut]

The real timeless children were the friends we made along the way

[@shesagamer6468]

🤣🤣🤣

[@Slink1701]

One thing I noticed is that the AI thing is basically the same thing that happened in the flux finale. Each side character gets their own doctor to coach them through their side quest

[@colossalweeb]

My favourite part of the episode was watching with my mum who had stopped watching consistently since series 11 (I technically stopped mid series 11 but watched the "plot" episodes of series 12 and all of series 13). Every time something showed up from the classic stuff she'd be confused and I had to be like "oh that's this doctor's companion", "oh that's a reference to the second doctor playing the recorder." I had been explaining stuff very briefly here and there. When the Fugitive Doctor walked in my mum looked me in the eyes and I just sighed and said "I don't want to get into it mum."

[@Redsage93]

Power of the doctor, Dan: almost dies "wow I almost died, thats a little scary imma go" eve of the daleks, also Dan: literally dies several times "this is fine"

[@jamma.77]

You mean Eve of the Daleks, right?

[@WiloPolis03]

That's a bit self-defeating tho, you could just as easily make an argument that Eve conditioned him to not feel any real consequential weight, until he really was about to die for good and that's when it finally hit him

[@magnetmountain33]

Kill the man Dan

[@KeplersDream]

GRAHAM: Ryan's in Patagonia. CUT TO: EXT. PATAGONIA - DAY CAPTION: PATAGONIA RYAN: I'm in Patagonia. END SCENE

[@hada__02]

I’m in Patagonia and I’m allergic to bicycles

[@epicrabid1857]

😅🤣🤣😂

[@TheSmart-CasualGamer]

"RYAN SINCLAIR, NO TE ATREVAS!" or "RYAN SINCLAIR, PEIDIWCH A MEIDDIO!"

[@PetersonZF]

@@hada__02 And I miss mannan.

[@sugar1905]

I'm still hung up on the AI hologram, Vinder's dismissal of it with "it can't have feelings", how there's definitely some self-awareness there, and the implication that this thing could absolutely be sentient given thousands of years of input. Out of everything in this story, I feel that it demands the most future exploration.

[@rueblie2627]

I’m not sure how it appears, she said that she put a chip in the companions so they could see it but other people also could so did she insert a projector in them all or what? It was very weird

[@cicelyamelia]

@@rueblie2627 but also, the cybers in UNIT couldn't see or hear it? it was so illogical

[@Acolyte_501st]

I’d have actually loved the Master into the Doctor concept if it was just the Master’s consciousness. So we’d get Jodie playing the master, it’s so weird but cool to see.

[@SabsWhyNot]

Chris Chibnall: But what if, instead, The Master just kills them in a non-permanent way and steals their clothes.

[@JhadeSagrav]

Holy crap, yes, just, WHAT THE ACTUAL FRICK WAS THAT?!?????! Just... WHAT?!!??

[@joshc5613]

why WASN'T it a full body swap? genuinely, I think both Jodie and Sacha are both good enough actors that they could have done it well. But that's not what happened!!

[@Jedi_Spartan]

Timestamps: 0:00 Beginning. 2:49 Overstuffing the stream/introductions. 9:42 Initial reactions. 17:33 What all the distractions are. 18:41 "Ra Ra Rasputin, lover of the Russian queen!" 21:11 Stubagful the Prophet. 25:00 Tennant's back. 40:59 Chibnall's "5 year plan". 42:58 Private Quote Tweeting 1 + Cancelling The Doctor. 45:38 I can't regenerate in front of you, I'm too socially awkward. 1:00:03 Master's Plan - Part 1 (More interesting ideas). 1:08:50 Tharries has 2 nickels. 1:12:59 Holograms and Vera's head canon. 1:17:49 Anger at the Doctor Who VR game. 1:23:22 Master's Plan - Part 2 (Defaced paintings/Jesus Master). 1:45:35 ALL the plotpoints. 1:49:05 Master's Plan - Part 3 (Box regeneration). 2:08:15 Cause of 13's regeneration + alternatives. 2:13:30 Stu drags down Tharries, "Private quote tweets, that's what they called them last time!" 2:15:15 Windows 10 cliff regeneration. 2:17:10 Vera's exit + Blare's confusion. 2:24:13 Ryan's absence. 2:26:50 Thasmin. 2:40:53 Warning Headphone users! (RIP my ears). 2:44:42 Discussing the return of Tennant. 2:56:10 Stubagful and Tharries exit. 3:05:26 George exits. 3:13:12 Superchats.

[@PetersonZF]

Not all heroes wear capes.

[@Syntaxbl]

king

[@thekodex1186]

You are the messiah, and we appreciate your sacrafice

[@alexrant_]

tysm

[@BlackCover95]

📌

[@DriverHenryWho3245]

I love how it turns into a Council of Geeks video without Vera's face at around 11:25. She really can make speeches without a script. 😅

[@Squid1562]

I got the impression that the Master either took the place of, or just was Rasputin, to get close to Tsar Nicholas the second and use the palace as a place for the forced regeneration. And the showboating with Ra Ra Rasputin was just icing on the cake

[@gengarvenom1180]

I prefer the idea that him being the Rasputin was completely irrelevent to his plan and he did it just so he could play the song.

[@KeplersDream]

The Master in this episode left one major question still unanswered: Was he, in fact, Russia's greatest love machine?

[@cicelyamelia]

i believe it

[@ahumanbeingfromtheearth1502]

Did you see how he was moving his hips? Clearly the answer is yes

[@caberknight9013]

Yes

[@greghawkins59]

I will forever pray for a scene in a random future episode where the doctor picks graham up and deposits him in a volcano with basic af information on the situation then leaves 😂

[@jabt2023]

My favourite bit is when John Bishop's character said 'this episode is shit' and just left the episode

[@jaycie586]

"Private quote tweets, that's what they called them last time" absolutely fucking killed me

[@Acolyte_501st]

I’ve not laughed that hard since the last time..

[@polken5418]

I haven't followed Doctor Who news in 2 years, I heard Whittaker was regenerating a week ago and I saw Ncuti Gatwa was the next Doctor. I had no idea Tennant was coming back so when he came out of the regeneration I was genuinely shocked, that was the first time in years I felt excited while watching Doctor Who.

[@doelroarpa3489]

The Daleks appearance felt like the BBC tryjng to meet the legal requirement of using them at least once every year... except they literally already had a special dedicate to them this year

[@retrogamingcommentary4163]

The character you knew from Series 11 and 12 was not the real Ryan. He inherited the position from the previous Ryan. The real Ryan Sinclair has been retired fifteen years and is living like a king in Patagonia.

[@Acolyte_501st]

I find the idea of the 13th Doctor talking to Yaz how Rick talks to Morty REALLY funny

[@GeorgeIsLost]

Really enjoyed being a part of this! Although I agree there was defo a lot of talking over/cutting each other off… though it was inevitable and kind of the point since the episode was overstuffed so an overstuffed live stream only made sense, we’ll try do better if we do this again I promise!

[@rhodrage]

Daleks have their Plungers back. Thats seriously one of my biggest takeaways thats not being talked about tbh.

[@tomgymer7719]

I tell you what I want after this episode, actual crossovers with classic Doctors. The actors are clearly happy to appear sometimes, so a special with say, Davidson, Tennant, Capaldi, or something along those lines would be cool. I realise some of the older ones look fairly different by now, but like, that's clearly not insurmountable. Definitely my favourite part of this episode was the old doctors, so I hope they do more like that for a special.

[@joshc5613]

my vain hope is still that one of these days we get a crossover with the Third Doctor, played by Sean Pertwee

[@tomgymer7719]

Oh, the Quirunx (?) is yet another example of this era of doctor who introducing stuff that is super special and rare. Like, that other universe, the race of 2 people, whatever those Flux villains were, whatever those Spyfall villains were, and whatever that dream villain guy was. Like, really ridiculously rare things, that the doctor just happens to run into. Now, obviously the Doctor does always run into weird things, but the 13th seems to have a much higher percentage of them than other doctors. They're also often weird energy related things.

[@JRHainsworth]

I can’t unsee that the dalek casing Jodie is in is T-Posing

[@ishaandw]

There is a similar Hologram thing in the TARDIS in previous episodes. The Parting of the Ways, Blink and Let's Kill Hitler.

[@rosechuma2006]

I was waiting for Jay to talk about the ep like exactly after I finished it

[@Jedi_Spartan]

The Power of the Doctor was the Fam we made along the way.

[@donvalentino9822]

I love that in the entire episode, *everyone* including chibnal forgot the Doctor was supposed to die in a regeneration episode

[@lextatertotsfromhell7673]

Forces regeneration likely, well, forced it

[@Simon-fn8xb]

On what Tharries said about Tennant doing a different voice - I heard that too. It definitely felt like a slightly different performance.

[@junipetta1595]

honestly could just be a product of his age and not being in 10’s character for a while, billie piper said she had the same issue going into season 4, and it’s noticeable with the moment and the big finish stuff that she’s using a different voice

[@PetersonZF]

@@junipetta1595 Yeah, Rose sounds like she's trying to do a Marlon Brando impression in Season 4.

[@fkez0510]

The arch she regenerates on is Durdle Door, i live near there and been to it a couple times, so its not a fake place

[@fletcheragenda6014]

Ya it’s based on a real place but filmed inside on a sound stage with a green screen

[@fkez0510]

@@fletcheragenda6014 I know. I was just saying cuz they were questioning if the place is real or made up. Like I said, I live near it lol

[@ElManReborn616]

I've got a pitch Stu would love: regeneration story about the doctor tripping on a brick and breaking their spine. Then he stays attached to the machines and the companions don't want to pull the plug, because they're scared of them not regenerating or something and the doctor just wants to fucking die already

[@wolfgangbailey3730]

The ONLY reason the Master was Rasputin is because Chibnall was jealous that the most popular Doctor Who story discussed since 2018 is Peter Harness's "How The Monk Got His Habit", so Chibnall wanted to make sure that couldn't get made as either a novel or a Big Finish

[@maxdixon6925]

You could have a whole story about the cybermen trying to steal the cargo from the train and it wuld be a good story

[@oooblyjooblies7022]

I'm so glad Metal is here for literally no reason.

[@Chamiliatic]

I think thirteens location of regeneration is great because it's durdledoor i went there on a school trip once and always found it cool if i was the doctor that's where I'd go out. So I like that.

[@4203105]

Your daily reminder that 99% of the universe is still destroyed, as that was never reversed.

[@totallynotaferret]

THANK YOU!!! What the hell is RTD gonna do about that???

[@ABonafideSkeleton]

God, Flux was such a narrative disaster that was far too big for a writer like Chibnall to manage. Genuinely unsure how RTD is going to fix it.

[@kyllerbuzcut]

Hopefully with the Toymaker plot coming up, and the whole regenerating intoTennant thing. That will be combined into something like the Toymaker playing games. They have kidnapped the doctor and imposed some sort of false reality, making them think they are this timeless child thing, and making them think they have regenerated into tenant again. Hopefully they can say this kidnapping occurred after just a few episodes of Chibnall's time. Perhaps they can even get Jodie in to film a scene or 2 to show us what's been really happening for the past couple of years. And then the specials will be about the doctor trying to break free from this, regenerating in the process. I don't know, that's just one idea. I just really think they've got to retcon Chibnall's retcons some how. It's the only way things can move forward You can't just leave a massive hole like that untouched and try to move on without addressing it. Gotta fix the timeless child, the nonsense of cyber time lords, Gallifrey being destroyed (we only JUST got it back, and it's gone again, like COME ON!), and also how come 99% of the universe is destroyed, and we're supposed to believe humans on earth are still surprised to see an alien every other week. So one fairly reasonable way to hit that reset button, is to just say "the celestial Toymaker did it. It was all in the doctor's head" all the way since, oh I don't know, let's say since after the Witchfinders for instance.

[@4203105]

@@kyllerbuzcut it's not only that Gallifrey was destroyed. It's that the master did it. Like how? These are the timelords we are talking about. You are right. I'd very much like a retcon for all of this.

[@whiskeyhound]

@@4203105 Is there anything from the modern era to suggest they're remotely competent, didn't watch past the Smith era so maybe I missed something but Rassilion and his goons getting killed by the Master almost immediately after he brought them back didn't inspire confidence in the average mental abilities of timelords.

[@arlobuster1796]

i think what they were going for is that the masters plan was timeless child related and he wanted infinite regenerations and when the master said "you'll be back ive got time" i read that that was his plan bc he was now immortal??? idk its fucking stupid but i think that was the goal

[@enbyennui]

7 minutes in and they're already morbing. This is gonna be a good episode

[@comicconcarne]

around 1:12:00 "it's kinda like a deus ex machina" it's literally doctor (god) coming out as an ai projected from the tardis (machine)

[@ParsureArts]

Talking about the defaced paintings and the Master being Space Jesus just reminded me of the Mandela Catalogue

[@4203105]

Discussion around 1:55:00 It would have been way more effective if the master had just taken over the doctor's body. That would have made more sense for his plan to tarnish the reputation of the doctor, it still would have been the same violation of not more so and it wouldn't have required the stupid change to forced regenerations.

[@samdyer-payne4719]

Regarding Yaz's exit, I think Dan should have left because he was getting into a serious relationship with his date (his ex fiancee?) and Yaz should have been the one to nearly die. I then would have had her contemplate what would have happened to her family, who I believe she was supposed to be close to, and ultimately would have been deciding between her life on earth and her life with the Doctor. The plot was sadly to swollen as it was to properly include Yaz's family or even just her sister but that's what I would have liked to have the catalyst for Yazs exit. It would have made the previous episode feel less click baity if Yaz had agency in the end at the very least....

[@TheSmart-CasualGamer]

I initially thought this was too many people, but I'm actually really enjoying it now I'm listening to it properly! I have nothing but praise for this review! It was nice to hear Tharries and Vera Council of Geeks and a bunch of people I didn't know before. (For summary, Stubagful is Raiden, Jay is Liu Kang, Tharries is Johnny Cage, Vera is Sonya Blade, George is Kano, Blare is Scorpion and Metal is Sub Zero). Also, I have so many points of my own, but I think that this plot would work with Ainley and Davison.

[@Lottiesene]

I loved the part when Doctor Jodi turned to the camera and said “there is a tempest in ME.”

[@DeepThought42]

Glad it's available to those that missed the live completely now as I found it such fun to listen to you all. Think people would not talk over one another so much if they were on video in their own windows so can see each other and who's talking or trying to. Not as good but like in a group discussion in person. It works well with other KZbinrs hosting a live discussion.

[@tarponpet]

Person on the leftmost seemed a bit miserable.

[@paulflint6254]

My favourite part is when the Master dances to be honest lol

[@WiloPolis03]

Literally the greatest scene in all nearly 60 years of Doctor Who, absolute legend

[@paulflint6254]

@@WiloPolis03 it was

[@Macapta]

What a waste of Rasputin. One of the most interesting figures in history used in name only for set dressing.

[@wingedharmony]

We have the "Russell Revival", an now, hopefully, we will soon also have the "Russell Renaissance"

[@jamesa.fitzpatrick1566]

I think we can agree that seven people was too many for this chat.

[@greghawkins59]

13 regenerated alone because she decided to regenerate ontop of durdle door and she knew how pissy the owners of that estate get.

[@dannygrover595]

I hope the idea with David coming back is either that regeneration is so random you could literally regenerate into a previous doctors lookalike... Or the doctor being confused and it turned out the regeneration regressed cos tenant Doc had unfinished business/couldn't move on for some decently explained reason 😅 But we shall see 🤷

[@bruce1947]

At least this one was actually watchable, unlike the rest of chibnall's run, and i felt the fan service was handled pretty well overall. Jodie's doctor also felt a bit more doctory than usual. Chibnall calm down with the title cards. Although it does make for a good drinking game, Drink whenever there's a title card.

[@carealoo744]

The Sixth Doctor got to say the words: "The Master."

[@TomGallagherSuperboyBeyond]

Episodes like this are why Doctor Who Confidential was an essential piece of the show in the modern era. When Sarah Jane arrived we had Confidential tell us about her. For a lot of kids that didn't have access to a lot of classic Who at the time, it was so needed. We're lucky we actually know who Ace and Tegan are so at least it's nice seeing them interact with their Doctors. Even if the episode is so beyond stupid, it'll be a guilty pleasure for me. That's all. It's a bad episode. Jodie deserved better than to be sidelined for so much of the episode too. Also i think Tennant's new number is a lie for now. If the rumors about who Neil Patrick Harris is playing are true, and it's going to turn out to be a kind of fuckery. I think once that's revealed in an episode, the number will change. At least that's what i'm hoping it'll be, and that's why we saw Ncuti in the trailer. I think he's at that cliff edge, with modern doctors. As for Yaz, i hope she gets a job with UNIT and we see her in future Who working with Kate, as suggested by the end of the episode. I want to see Yaz written by Davies.

[@edwardwilliamson1]

The masters dalek plan would have actually been a genius name for the episode lol

[@ladrok97]

First half I undestand, so I kinda can help with it. 1. Train scene was only for increasing peacing of the episode. It could be any type of "generator", I have no clue why it was child, pointless 2. Paintings - it was for those two old companions to visit UNIT with "small" "cyber transporter" 3. Master had build planet in the past, because in 2020 UNIT would hapilly destroy it while it was under construction (Like they wanted to do with dinosaurs on spaceship) 4. I thinked Cybermens are Master pets, since he created them (it's not true? I have no clue how this 12 and 13 season works), so in this situation Dalecs cooperating with Master (and his loyal faction) to get rid of Doctor and rid of this stupid Earth makes sense for me 5. Master was waiting for Doctor to get caught, so he was vibing and increasing level of threat 6. Daleks knew about this one roque Dalek, so they gaved him some info, so he will contact Doctor. This way Doctor got back to past where "forced regeneration" machine was set 7. Doctor and Master got back in time thanks to Daleks (well... at least I hope this is how Master got back to 1916) 8. In meantime bored Cybermens are conquering Earth (point 2, maybe it was also point 5? Master sending his pets to do funny things, is what Master in classic series would do) 9. Master acomplished his plan, so he vibes. /// Wait the second, If master got time teleportation thanks to Daleks, then why he need point 2,4,5,8? Daleks were supposed to destroy Earth anyway. Distrust of Daleks? Well they are Daleks, but then again how much of plan Daleks knew? Maybe Master wanted somehow excile Daleks and surviving humans would willingly get conversion which is better than atomic winter created by volcano ashes?/// 10. Master transfer himselv into Doctor, which is best way of blocking Doctor of messing his plans. His plan is simple - to rewrite name Doctor from "warrior; experienced invidual in particular field" into "destroyer, chaos bringer". (Two planets destroying each other sounds like "standard" situation in which Doctor would intervere. Probably Master made this destruction faster and also informed Universal Media about it) And courtain. I have no idea why and how rest of the episode went. Like it was so boring randomness of 40 mins, while first 40 mins were great planned chaos.

[@phantomsidious2934]

This review is very much like the episode, messy, overcrowded and the main characters are overshadowed by everyone else, funny how things work out

[@regiman222]

At least it was intentional in this video, unlike DW

[@phantomsidious2934]

@@regiman222 indeed

[@BlackCover95]

34:05 At first I thought she said “build a bomb in the Earth’s *core* ”, and that’s basically what they did in “The Dalek Invasion of Earth” (1964). 1:02:34 Inducing sympathy from the audience would’ve been more effective of the actress hadn’t looked bored and indifferent the entire time. 1:08:23 That’s basically Rusty’s entire character. He’s not good, just redirected. 1:30:47 At least in _Batman & Robin_ , the plan was for Mr. Freeze to first freeze populated areas, and for Poison Ivy to subsequently fill those now human-free places with plants after. (Presumably, they’d have a way to thaw out the places PI wanted to occupy.) They’re goals are not nearly as incompatible as the Daleks’ and Cybermen’s are. 2:04:50 What about for Clara and Eleven? 2:43:09 Whom was she watching? I keep replaying this part and I still can’t make it out. 3:11:58 Why wouldn’t you put that onscreen?

[@djdee6386]

If David Tennant is the 14th doctor, then why isn’t he called David Fourteennant?

[@carealoo744]

The Master had to take The Doctor's body, or-else the Real Doctor would show-up and fix it. Also anyone who scanned him would find that he's The Doctor.

[@magdalenerose924]

The Dalek Asylum is explained as the dumping ground for Daleks who develop deviant thoughts & are treated as insane.

[@greghawkins59]

I do wish we got more of the master fucking around as the doctor, instead he just showed yaz that random pair of planets fighting then got pushed over and played the flute.

[@carealoo744]

Power of Doctor Cameo fan overload Tom Baker said no. That's the episode in a haiku.

[@fartgarfunkeljr]

T_T I love Tom

[@petedarock1521]

i always miss the streams by less then an hour

[@leejones8582]

If I never hear the word fam again it will be too soon

[@B-MC]

The reason I found The Master becoming The Doctor 'unsettling' is because it was such a mishmash of costumes combined with the performance, if itd just been Sasha dressed like the doctor itd be copycatting, but by forcing it it was like all of the incarnations got confused and were fighting for identity but the master was pushing it all down. The reason I dont think it works as anything more than a warped visual is that the master doesnt really have a character, so "hes just crazy" is fun to watch but not a great justification for why the master did it, how it worked, or how they thought it would pay off. There's no dramatic gap in what result the master thinks they'll get beyond 'lol random' so once it happens you're like "what was the plan again?" because the plan had no endgame and was easily reversed. Narratively, like with all chibnall things, beyond the superficial fun of "that happened", why did it matter to the story?

[@Kranitoko]

"nearly no modern companion has had agency in their exit" I assume by nearly you mean "Martha" because she left on her own terms. Also, so did Ryan, Graham and Dan?

[@imanimr2098]

and Amy

[@Kranitoko]

@@imanimr2098 the circumstances of Amy was... Odd. She left at her own accord sure, but she ended up being sent back in time to the early 1900's to be with Rory. She didn't exit in her own time period like the others I mentioned did

[@c17sam90]

I never liked Yaz much but I did find it funny how shallow she looks in leaving because the doctor was changing

[@Kranitoko]

Oh good, I've got something to binge tomorrow whilst working.

[@chefschmixer]

My favorite part of the stream was that Metal was just... ...there.

[@romulusnuma116]

He really was just there... the whole time...

[@blushingzephyr]

I watched the episode while I was doing something else, and my thoughts were: “it’s the thing where the companions of the doctor meet and are annoyed that there were other companions before them” okay Rasputin is happening, ?? is this for anything lmfao cried at the bit where yaz cries because other people crying make me cry. oh tennant is back. cool I’m not surprised because I saw the leaks. But nice

[@Masterpdudley]

I’ve been waiting for this

[@payton.a.elliott]

I like that the Doctor Who story is at the point where people are wanting them to introduce "degenerations".

[@youtubeaccount697]

A sections of fandom has always wanted that. Actually doing it, man i hope the wrinkle makes it worth it

[@squibble08]

im theorizing that maybe 13 regenerates to 10 because of the energy-being-sentient-cyber-planet-core-child-thing being their cause of death (i think)

[@Dubble77D]

I just got around to finishing the finale and I just want to point out one concept/story beat that I felt was immensely squandered: Re: The Doctor Hologram that switched into old regenerations These moments, imo, were **ripe** to have Chibnall and Whitaker flex. Instead of literally using the old incarnations for fan service, I would have *loved* to see her only swap clothes to the corresponding incarnations for Ace and Teagan, and to see Whitaker act *as* the corresponding incarnation, instead of literally using the now-aged previous incarnation. Also, why in tf is the Doctor wearing some hoity-toity Time Lord robe like they're an aristocrat in their subconscious, with only McGann refusing to wear it? It just doesn't make sense to me.

[@nifralo2752]

Also why is there no Troughton and Pertwee doctor? If they are going to be so fan wanky go all out get apmeone who looks like them ir their sons and get a sound a like to dub over them. Same with Tom if he refused to reprise. Also why is it that McCoy and Davidson look just like they used to but Colin is unrecognisable?

[@Acolyte_501st]

I’d understand people’s skepticism about bringing Tennant back if it wasn’t RTD writing the stories but it is! We get the combination we already know works so wonderfully. Most would say RTD as a writer has only gotten better, he’s managing to get a lot of the old team back and of course Tennant is as enthusiastic about being The Doctor as ever. After that first special airs I think we’ll all be happy and hyped.

[@ladrok97]

If Tennant really ends being 14th and not some "in between regeneration" (because introducing 14th in 60th anniversary would be bad idea), then I will feel great dissapointment. Or if RTD sells spin off to 9th doctor and somehow get Capaldi back for 60th anniversary, then Tennant can be 14,15,16th doctor

[@TheBorzoi]

Something you didn't touch on (maybe you didn't notice?). Flux is supposed to be set in the modern day which means Vinder exists in the modern day. He doesn't have any time travel ability. How did he crash on to the cyber conversion planet in 1916 ?

[@regiman222]

That wormhole thing he flew out of and then back into at the end of the episode

[@TheBorzoi]

@@regiman222 There was nothing to suggest that wormhole did time travel, only space travel.

[@regiman222]

@@TheBorzoi Fair, there was little to suggest anything about the wormhole, besides Vinder coming out of it.

[@professorhaystacks6606]

Regarding Tegan: The Doctor didn't abandon her on her final departure, though. He arguably did on her first departure for like 1 story, but when she left for good she chose to leave. So how can she blame The Doctor for that now?

[@PetersonZF]

Yeah, I didn't get that either.

[@jamma.77]

Thank you! It's been bugging me as well! Really reminded me of a Big Finish audio as well, where she blames the Doctor for something that is legitimately her fault.

[@07jonesj]

Tegan and Ace have the exact opposite reactions from what I'd expect given their relationships with the Doctor. Tegan would be apologetic for leaving the Doctor to deal with the deaths without her; Ace would be angry because Seven was extremely manipulative.

[@professorhaystacks6606]

@@07jonesj In fairness to 7, he manipulated himself almost as much as anyone else.

[@Acolyte_501st]

I’d love to hear everyone’s thoughts of the next episode when it’s out, the contrast between the garbage fire of the Chibnall finale and the start a new RTD era will be insane

[@Moonlightgraeme]

Tennant coming back is purely for a ratings boost before ncuti takes over, don’t really have a problem with that if tennant acts differently from the 10th doctor.

[@ABonafideSkeleton]

To me it feels like RTD setting stuff up to fix the mess Chibnall made. The Doctor is a god being, the Flux destroyed 99% of the universe, Gallifrey is destroyed, the Daleks, Cybermen and Sontarans have been genocided like twice now. RTD needs to somehow hit the reset button on all of that.

[@Moonlightgraeme]

@@ABonafideSkeleton he’s got a hard job fixing this mess

[@Acolyte_501st]

I don’t think that’s entirely the reason, it’s definitely a factor but I think there’s other reasons that mean it makes A LOT of sense. Tennant is the 100% safe and available option, pretty much everyone loves the 10th Doctor and he loves playing him. We’ve got 60th specials next which aren’t ideal for a new Doctor to say the least for both fans and Ncuti. Then there’s the fact it’s RTD writing, Tennant is his Doctor, it’s pretty safe to assume he’ll do it right. Plus it’s also best for Ncuti because he isn’t coming out of that era most people really dislike, instead he gets what I imagine will be an epic special to appear at the end of.

[@anon5263]

If we assume that Vinder was a hasty stand in for Captain Jack in Flux, then there was likely also a hasty rewrite of this story to remove Jack. Plot point still needs to happen so Vinder appears without reason. If you notice, almost all of his lines are just him saying his full name to introduce himself as he was a hasty addition to the scenes. Likely there was also a few drafts where the Quaranx was the Timeless Child and Vinder was searching for the child which was his child, but those messy potential ideas seem to have been scrapped and enforced by some BBC executive note after the sheer failure of Timeless Child and Flux.

[@greghawkins59]

Totally agree with CoG's take, it was a really fun bit of nonsense that would have been much better than if the rest of the era was coherent.

[@Noisy_Snax]

Cant believe it took an hour and three quarters before you let the lady read her list.

[@Mac-Ole]

blare seems so oldy agressive lol

[@greghawkins59]

The master could just go around claiming to be the doctor, nobody would be able to tell.

[@outoftunestring]

Jay still has the best giggle on KZbin

[@PetersonZF]

Rich Evans: Am I a joke to you?

[@jackskellingtonsora]

Probably the worst thing about this era is that people are going to now use this era as an excuse to never have a woman Doctor again, which is upsetting. Because it was never Jodie's fault. It's pretty fucked up that for the first woman Doctor, the BBC cast someone who had never written a decent episode of Doctor Who to be the showrunner. What the fuck were they thinking?

[@SuperCrazyfin]

The Power of Three and 42 are "decent". I think that was the issue though, none of them showed as much promise as, for example, any episode Moffat made before he was showrunner.

[@totallynotaferret]

@@SuperCrazyfin Cold blood was... acceptable. (I think that's Moffat's doing though)

[@SuperCrazyfin]

@@totallynotaferret oh i was a fan of that two parter

[@exilestudios9546]

and you don't think the BBC did that on purpose? with how weirdly homophobic, transphobic, and sexist the BBC has been in recent years i can 100% see them picking Chibnall knowing he would tank the show just enough to kill the idea of there ever being another female doctor

[@Acolyte_501st]

I’d hope the fandom and casual viewers are smart enough to see through that narrative.

[@justsignmeup911]

I got the impression that when the master became the doctor, the person in the other tube was the real Rasputin.

[@DeprecatedSC]

I really enjoyed this episode for some reason... but I also hadn't remembered a single thing about the actual Flux storyline at any point so saw it entirely on its own. Lots of flaws, but I can confirm at least self-contained I am in the same camp as the third person in line (I am here cause this specific episode made me curious, I on't have the attention span for non-edited multi-hour podcasts i'm sorry-) in the idea of "this was dumb, but it was fun."

[@carealoo744]

Ian was in it, so I'm Happy!

[@jamesa.fitzpatrick1566]

Kate contacted Ace and Tegan, when re-forming UNIT. She says so.

[@Acolyte_501st]

I’d love to see more colabs with Jay, Stu and Tharries they’re a fun combination to listen to

[@wcapewell3089]

my first classic who episode was carnival of monsters.

[@Grace-vn8of]

Damn Vera popped off so hard when they talked about Yaz’s exit??

[@barney9456]

Marvel: Endgame will be the largest crossover ever! Jay Exci: Hold my beer!

[@azrael_hypo]

i hated the Master in this episode. Sacha Dhawan's Master had a plan in Spyfall. it was a bit dumb but everything he did made sense. he was the first Master whom i found intimidating. it's kind of impossible to take John Simm's Master and Michelle Gomez's Missy seriously as villains (Missy's reformation was brilliant) because they were cartoonish, killing without any gravity. the first Master was great as a conniving and power-hungry coward, but you never get the impression that he could stand a chance against Jon Pertwee. Dhawan's Master, however, was a sadistic brute with a plan. at least, in Spyfall. in his two subsequent stories he became more Joker-like, and it was such a waste. how can you take a villain seriously when their defining character trait is just "silly"