Jennifer Heath | Christianity SHOULD allow gay marriage - 1/8 | Oxford Union

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The student speakers in this debate are professional debaters and their argument may not reflect their personal beliefs.
Currently, Church of England members of the clergy are not permitted to carry out same-sex marriages, whilst homosexual Anglicans are required to remain celibate. In recent years, however, the Church of Wales, the Scottish Episcopal Church, and, most recently, the Methodist Church, have all embraced marriage equality. In February 2023, the General Synod met to discuss the issue, raising the question across the Anglican Communion and Christendom: should Christianity extend the sacraments to same same-sex marriages?
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[@SirHargreeves]

Next years debate: ‘Christianity SHOULD allow adultery’

[@slawsonscot]

Sadly I think that’s where some are trying to take the church. If all they can say is “love is love” without any Scriptural foundation or defining principles, then why can’t an individual love as many people as they want and why shouldn’t that be “blessed”. The same people in the CofE championing blessing same sex relationships would never agree that the arguments they’ve used in this issue could be applied to a human and an animal or a human and an inanimate object. Why? Because they know deep down that that would be abhorrent and ridiculous. But when they try to stand up in the years ahead and fight against those inevitable proposals, they will reveal themselves to be the hypocrites that they are.

[@WHU63]

It not so much that the church SHOULD allow same sex marriage as the church CAN'T allow it. If the Bible is still the final authority, then same sex marriage can't even be contemplated. Nor for that matter can a blessing of same sex couples be given as God doesn't bless sin.

[@slawsonscot]

@@WHU63 absolutely agree. Sadly though the trajectory of the bishops in the CofE appears to be away from the Scriptures and onto feelings, emotions and current culture.

[@Sebastian_Snufflepuss]

And murder.

[@beaf6796]

Next years debate: ‘Christianity SHOULDN’T allow clothing made with two different types of cloth’ (it’s in the bible - look it up).

[@lightowl4345]

She lost me at "I'm not sure I'm Christian".

[@rainchic7943]

Read the bible for you not to get lost.

[@jakeorama]

1 John 2:19

[@janelouisebriggs2999]

She lost me before that

[@dropdmacrossaint4039]

No empathy. Viewing different perspectives brings maturity.

[@jalonstaples6941]

im in the same boat.. im not sure if im christian either.

[@donnamarquise]

I’m glad she admitted she lacks understanding of Gods love in faith, and isn’t even sure if she is a Christian. Its a pity she didn’t stop there.

[@beewithab6122]

What gives Atheists authority to tell us how we should practice our religion. These arrogant hypocrites are crossing the line.

[@davidcristi8835]

If she didn't had the paper in the hands, even if the room was empty she would't know what she thinks. She is full of rage without arguments. And this is so weird coming to tell me do that without a reason

[@ReverendDr.Thomas]

Good Girl! 👌 Incidentally, Slave, are you VEGAN? 🌱

[@mommoffa]

@@beewithab6122 What gives people who follow Middle-Eastern fables the right to tell people they live in wrong? I can use your argument against you

[@ifunanya24]

The so-called men of the cloth on her side of the debate though... wolves in sheep’s clothing.

[@eusebiubaciu9109]

She said: "I am here to speak from the heart." Well... “The human heart is the most deceitful of all things, and desperately wicked. Who really knows how bad it is?"- Jeremiah 17:9 "But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man `unclean.' For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander." - Matthew 15:18-19

[@rainchic7943]

It means she didn't read the Bible very well.

[@lionofjudahlambofgod9132]

Amen

[@dorarie3167]

The Bible is increasingly, in western nations, seen as a relic of an ancient time. Quoting a book written by ancient Jews is unconvincing to non-Christians. Rather, offer an argument for your position.

[@beewithab6122]

​@@dorarie3167 We're not here to convince non Christians. May be Non Christians should stop imposing their values on us.

[@dorarie3167]

@@jaradbennett5728 I’m sorry, but if you seriously consider the Bible as inerrant, you are wilfully blind to science and history and geography and archaeology and so many other areas of research which clearly contradict the Bible. Are you seriously saying the universe was created in six days? Or that all humans came from just two, Adam of dust and Eve of his rib? Or your god butchered the firstborn of every Egyptian family? Allowed slavery and rape? Destroyed all humanity and life aside from what was allowed on a big wooden boat? This is the book you believe? Explain yourself, please.

[@robert123ro]

In summary: "I am not a Christian, I didn't read the Bible, but what you read in the Bible is wrong and I will teach you what to believe and what not".

[@martoweche536]

😏

[@astralbloodprincess]

She is sweet, well intentioned, and DOES represent the state of mind of those outside the church - which is misinformed and influenced by anti-christian propoganda. I can relate because before I took the time to educate myself about what the church really teaches, I also held many false beliefs about it.

[@TheBarnwalker]

She's not sure if she's a Christian? Well then you aren't. Why is that difficult?

[@chmpntrdr]

“We should celebrate love in all its forms” is the most dangerous thing I’ve ever heard. Do you understand the ramifications of that statement?

[@Gordween]

I don't think she understood the ramifications. She's practically empowering pedophilia, incest and other abominations. Truly, not everyone should open their mouths to talk and not everyone should be listened to.

[@Oscitant_Otter]

That was my first thought. Absolutely no thought behind that statement whatsoever. She'd be the first to complain about everyone using the 'slippery slope' argument in pointing out why that statement is dangerous, but she'd probably be the first in line to defend whatever new monstrosity we've decided as a society is now acceptable in the next few years in the name of inclusion.

[@ClassicAudiobooksInspirations]

Yep. She's a woman and if a man beat her up in the name of love, (in my culture they do) she will be the first to scream murder.

[@TheMarch05]

Pedos will say "free at last"

[@zita-lein]

If the Church wants to attract new members and be a moral leader, it needs to preach the truth.

[@chrispark7010]

Nothing enrages me more than false teachers who intentionally rip the word of God out of context and strip it of any meaning to fit their narrative. This breaks Lord knows how many commandments. If you didn't read the bible just say you didn't read it and leave it at that. Instead, all I heard was a person who had never openned the book of Leviticus, Deuteronomy, or Matthew, quoting things she has no business quoting. Men of the church shook with fear as they took the pulpit with reverence for the word of God. What a sad place we have come to where people invalidate the word for the world. Sodom and Gomorrah is such a clear example of what God thinks on this matter but they probably never got that far in Genesis. Her insistence on the modernization of the church to attract new members is so abhorrently antithetical to what the church stands for. We are not here to change our ways to fit the world, we are here to stand apart from the world. God does not change. God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.

[@natmeyy7590]

Only if there was evidence to back any of the man made claims!

[@Nexus-jg7ev]

​@@natmeyy7590 'Amen' with sarcasm. Man made and man made alone.

[@beewithab6122]

​@@Nexus-jg7ev You can believe that it's man made. But your freedom ends where our nose begins. You can't come here and tell us how we should practice our religion. Atheists can F..off

[@Nexus-jg7ev]

@@beewithab6122 And I am not planning to tell you how to practice it as long as you keep it to yourself. But when you try to impose your values and rules on others, expect backlash. Those who do not believe in the authority of your God and his existence are under no obligation to live their lives according to your rules.

[@beewithab6122]

@@Nexus-jg7ev Who is telling you to live accroding to our rules? It's now unbelievers like this woman telling us to change our laws to make you feel comfortable in your perversion. It's now your group that's crossing the line and imposing your ideologies on us. Atheists can f .. off. Enough of all the nonsense.

[@antfaz]

It was really tough to listen to this talk by someone who isn't sure she's a Christian and believes the church's aim should to be "attract new members". She's a good representative for secular values, and that's fair enough. But when it comes to what makes a powerful Spirit-filled church, she really doesn't have a clue.

[@user-us6mr8dd2s]

If the Church of England modernized itself in the same way as progressive British society currently does, the consequence of it would be unfixable.

[@samuelrosslee408]

If intelligent progressiveness is "unfixable" that is a very good thing.

[@user-us6mr8dd2s]

@@samuelrosslee408 Yeah if it's "Intelligent"

[@JesusLordOfLords455]

God defined marriage, we cannot redefine it.

[@sof553]

In all fairness we have redefined God many many times.

[@pinguy2334]

God is pro gay though.

[@JesusLordOfLords455]

@@sof553 mans attempt to redefine God is also futile

[@sof553]

@@JesusLordOfLords455 Why? We came up with the idea. Xenophanes c. 500 BC defined a god as having certain qualities of omnicience, omnipresence and omnipotence. He also said if we could talk to horses they would tell us a horse god had 8 legs etc. Other method of Pseudo-Dionysus the Areopagite was the via negativa. He thought that the idea of god was beyond human capacity therefore we could only describe what it was not. Either way they are both nice ways of playing with language.

[@JesusLordOfLords455]

@@sof553 triggered much?...dude I don't make the rules, the big man does 👍

[@TubaDaddy8]

"I'm not really sure I am a Christian." I'm not really sure you are either, lady.

[@daanper8994]

But i am very sure, Benny, thay when people like you gp amomg worms, our society benefits from it :)

[@TitaT]

oh I am sure she isn't

[@nuby1012]

This is wrong on many levels

[@corecriticalful]

02:08 I am amazed in Ms. Heath's ability to speak about 'love' in one breath and then proceed to insult her opponents in the next. Is this just an Oxford Union tradition or am I missing something here?

[@janelouisebriggs2999]

She was putting everyone down who didn't agree with her all the time but that is such a woke, modern day leftist characteristic. All love acceptance and tolerance until you disagree with them. Then the daggers come out. Hypocrisy on a grand scale.

[@OllieCampbell123]

This is a tradition of the Oxford Union, each speaker is introduced with a little joke to show that this is a debate, something fun and is merely for interest. It reminds everyone that there is no meaning behind it apart from just hearing peoples opinions

[@joebriggs5781]

It was a light-hearted roast which is actually a cool tradition. They all do it, stop being so sensitive. Calvin was even smiling about it.

[@nduclet351]

She said she doesn’t know if she’s actually Christian, by the statements she’s made I can unequivocally tell you she’s is NOT!

[@mvuyisijezile8064]

Her definition of love is that, if I love my child and my child undeniably loves to play video games on school nights, then I must allow that or else I would not be a loving parent if I disapproved. People can love the wrong things, because people make mistakes. The problem is when they want those mistakes to be validated instead of repenting and allowing themselves to be corrected.

[@raneanubis]

perfect analogy.

[@J_a_s_o_n]

Love cannot exist without TRUTH.

[@ClassicAudiobooksInspirations]

Yep. If your child will only eat chicken nuggets or candy, and nothing else, then as a loving parent, you must allow that coz otherwise you wont be a loving, affirming, inclusive parent.

[@7yorker7]

Very well said.

[@joebriggs5781]

No, because there is no basis of truth that homosexuality is wrong, that's why that kind of logic falls apart.

[@francismarquis2942]

The true church of Jesus Christ will never change. The Church of England has to make up its mind. It either listens to the world or list to God!

[@J_a_s_o_n]

It's DEAD. God left CoE. 2 Peter 2:1 NKJV - But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.

[@rowankennedy7281]

@@J_a_s_o_n I do not think it is dead yet, there are still true believers among them, however, the large majority of them are false

[@elsiecovington8481]

This woman is dress like she's going to a nightclub.

[@samruggiero1778]

So not a theologian, not sure if she's a Christian and goes on to teach us how to interpret the Bible? And new church members spiked with women priests /bishops in the C of E? Really? Not what pew research reports at all.

[@mrhmd8308]

I think the mistake people are making is they’re forgetting that God never contradicts his Word.

[@benofbens6446]

The second she said, not a theologian, not even a Christian. Everything after that is redundant. I'm not taking advice on my faith from an atheist.

[@femboyacolyte7833]

Wow. You do not provide a good example of a Christian to heathens like me. Thank you for turning me away from Him, ideal Christian. I will now draw upside down crosses in gas station bathrooms to signify my heresy.

[@beewithab6122]

​@FollowTheHowlSorry not gonna take biblical advice from some immoral unbeliver.

[@beewithab6122]

@FollowTheHowl Even the devil can quote scripture. So nah

[@rowankennedy7281]

@Follow the howl He can have humility and treat people with respect while also putting the word of God above the word of someone who has openly stated she is not a Christian, and who I doubt has read the bible. This idea that in order to love someone and be kind to them you must affirm them always and let them do whatever they want is utterly ridiculous. Often loving someone means not giving them what they want, because you know it is bad for them, and that it often much harder than simply affirming them in their actions.

[@rowankennedy7281]

@Follow the howl But isn't the woman in the video being judgmental? She has come into an area in which she has no expertise, and she is trying to force people to live their lives the way SHE wants them to, isn't that bad?

[@azarel7]

Next it will be "Jesus is loving so there really isn't a hell"

[@rickytavilla4259]

Ummm I’ve actually heard that. These people are brutally naive. In America now they are trying to normalize pedophilia. They call it maps, minor attracted person‘s.. Please come soon Lord. We are headed to Sodom and Gomorrah.

[@ifunanya24]

I’ve heard that said several times before. I foolishly concluded that several years ago. I now know the truth. Hell exists, and God holds the keys to its gates! God created hell. God wouldn’t be very loving is He didn’t punish sin, there is a consequence for sin.

[@mrsmaidenname7571]

Alas, that is already here,

[@cuttru8041]

if you speak from the heart, you are speaking from a place of emotion. No matter how strong those emotions are, you cannot and should not derive truth and morality from a place of emotion.

[@AllforOne_OneforAll1689]

"When I speak in universities, they’re always quick to point out, “No, God cannot hate because God is love.” And I tell you God must hate because God is love. You see, I love children; therefore, I hate abortion. If I love that which is holy, I must hate that which is unholy. God is a holy God. That’s something that the Americans have forgotten. Many of the things that you love to do, God hates. Did you know that?" Paul Wassher, Shocking Youth Message

[@HarryFlashmanVC]

She says she isn't a Christian, so why is she telling me, as a Christian what I can believe and what I cannot believe?

[@dom-b238]

My people perish for lack of knowledge.

[@J_a_s_o_n]

2 Peter 2:1 NKJV - But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.

[@sivuyilejonas]

Ladies and Gentlemen. Here are 7 simple points as to why the church cannot support same-sex marriage: 1. God is the author of marriage, not humanity. Therefore, Humanity doesn’t have the right or authority to define marriage. Genesis 2 teaches us that when God saw that Adam was alone, he didn’t build Adam a brother or another Adam. He built Adam a woman. A Christian woman is designed by God to fulfil 3 purposes: 1. Procreation. God commanded the man to “be fruitful and multiply. (Genesis 1), Adam cannot fulfil this command with a man. Same sex couples cannot produce children. A man needs a woman for this. 2. Illustration. A marriage is suppose to reflect what God’s design for what a family is. “Therefore a man shall leave his mother and father and be joined to his wife and they shall become one flesh”. When God look at what a family is, he sees a man and woman joined together, nothing else. 3. Sanctification. a Christian marriage is suppose to reflect Jesus’s relationship with the church. They are one body. Just as a man and a woman married together are one flesh, one body. 2. Jesus himself is against homosexuality. Why? Because of the Holy Trinity, Jesus is God. Jesus was there when Sodom and Gomorrah was being destroyed for rape, homosexuality, and other wickedness. Jesus is the author of Leviticus, a book which contains the laws given to Israel, which condemns same sex sexual activities as an abomination. You cannot separate Jesus from the God the father and God the Holy Spirit. Jesus himself said “I have not come to destroy the law but to fulfil it”. 3. There are three types of laws in the bible. The moral law (summaries as the Ten Commandments), the Civil law (laws given to the nation of Israel, and ceremonial law (laws given on how to worship the True God rightly). Homosexuality being a sin is a moral law. This means that it is a law that needs to be preserved for all time, just like how murder and stealing are moral laws. Moral law transcends time and culture. We are all, believer and non-believer, sinner and non-sinner, are responsible to the moral law. 4. Homosexuality is a dangerous sin to commit. It is the only sin in the bible that God calls “an abomination” and in the Book of Romans, it is the one of the few sins where God says “there is a penalty in the flesh” if you commit this sin. This is why the LGBT community has the highest rates of Sexual diseases, high suicide rates, and various mental health issues. This is a judgement from God. This sin cannot be taken lightly. 5. The bible view on “Love” and the world’s view on “Love” are completely different. The bible doesn’t teach you to “follow your heart”, in fact, the bible teaches the opposite. In the book of Jeremiah, God says that “the heart is wicked and deceitful amongst all things, who can know it.” Since God is all loving, he defines what love is. God defines love in the Ten Commandments. We are called to love God first and then love others. This means that obeying God is a Christian’s first and top priority. Even Jesus himself, after saving a woman from persecution in the Book of Matthew, told the woman to “SIN NO MORE”. As a Christian, I cannot love you and see you embracing an act which is against God and will lead you to hell. 6. Finally, the bible is not outdated, because God is not outdated. God is an all powerful being who exists out of time. Do you really believe that such a God would give us a holy book that needs to be updated and complement to the modern culture? Absolutely not. The bible, in the book of Timothy, makes it clear that it is “a complete book, fit to equip a man for all good works”. 7. Since that fall of Adam in Genesis 3, we are all Sinners. This means we are all bent towards ourselves and not towards God. The book of Psalms echoes this point: “there is nobody, not one, that seeks for God”. We are all wretched sinners and everyone deserves to go to hell. God, through his love for us, sent his son to take all of our sins and die the death we should have done. We are saved through Jesus Christ my brothers and sisters. Therefore, Jesus himself said that if we truly loved him “we would keep his commandments”. This means that as Christians, we are ultimately called to OBEDIENCE, not just love. Love is a part of the nature of a Christian, it is not the be all and end all of what a Christian is. We must obey first, then love second. God himself in the book of Jeremiah, chapter 3 calls us to return to him, not to Love others harder. Brothers and Sisters, from the book of Genesis, to the book of Leviticus, and the Book of Romans, it is clear that Homosexuality is not to be supported, embraced, celebrated, and accepted. Remember that our Goal is be like Christ, not like the world. We cannot adopt what the world wants, only what God wants, which is obedience, repentance, and a complete hatred of sin, not the sinner. If the church becomes like the world and thinks like the world, then we are mocking the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and disgracing the Gospel of Christ which saved us. Non-believers do not have the right to tell us what love is, because God has already done that.

[@iainrae6159]

Marriage predates monotheism with the earliest recorded ceremony 2345BC

[@Urelasir]

@@sivuyilejonas lol

[@beaf6796]

Get a life bro - as Jesus would say, love thy neighbour :)

[@pinguy2334]

The church sucks.

[@NaheedMan]

Much of the Bible was written before and after Jesus by men who had to write within the context of their environments and dare I say their own conditioning. Jesus himself ultimately tried to leave us with just one golden rule. One which he hoped I imagine would guide everything else. Especially within the contradictions he himself probably saw in the holy books of his time. Its a shame people are still lost in the dogma of not just the bible but all the books of the abrahameic religions. They are books. Written by men. Over a time. Those books have changed over time. At what point did someone wake up and decide that they were cast in stone? Its sad to see how our minds can be indoctrinated beyond basic reason to love thy neighbour and do onto others...

[@rsahota5325]

If Christian’s need to modernize and accept homosexuality and gay marriage then I guess we need to accept adultery and other sins, the list will get bigger and there won’t be any difference between good and bad actions, the devil always wants a inch so he can take a mile.

[@GrahamDickins]

“Hey Paul, love the new book: that bit about faith, hope and love - 👌. Sadly, gonna have to redact the whole ‘men who have sex with men won't inherit the kingdom’ a few chapters earlier (you must have woken up on the wrong side of the bed writing that!), oh and the ‘being unmarried is better’ bit just afterwards kiiiiiind of undermines our point, so we'll need to tweak that too, no biggy. Oh and funniest thing: someone claiming to be you sent this book ‘Romans’ to us too - you hear about this? As if anyone’d REALLY believe you wrote that same-sex relations is ‘shameful unnatural lust’ ... ! But don't worry, we'll take care of that. “PS in the meantime, don't talk to Jude + Matthew - they have some whacky ideas about OT gays and what they think Jesus said about marriage... it's as if they ACTUALLY took Genesis + Leviticus seriously 🤣”

[@Butterinthefield]

Hey Graham!😀

[@J_a_s_o_n]

2 Peter 2:1 NKJV - But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.

[@desydukuk291]

When did this egg-bearing person think that Christ lived and died if it is not influenced by the past, as it said? What has attracting new members got to do with the Christianity club?

[@beaf6796]

When did this brain-cell lacking person decide that their opinion was relevant?

[@desydukuk291]

@@beaf6796 Is that seriously your question, wrapped inside your insult, masquerading as your opininion, jeezus another imature kid thiinkig it's grown up! Go bea a teacher like the rest of you deadbeats.

[@alykeith1599]

I don't understand why she had to put down the other speakers in her speech..

[@ifunanya24]

Because she is hard hearted and of the World. If she finds Christ, her heart would be changed and softened.

[@Habib_Osman]

@@ifunanya24 It is you that is being hard hearted. She was just following a local tradition of introducing opponents with a little joke.

[@adaml7349]

This girl is a signal of more of what’s to come. The blind leading the blind to slaughter

[@rickytavilla4259]

Spot on

[@skinnie2838]

Gay marriage has been a catastrophe in the USA. Years later we have men dressed in barely any clothes at all pretending to be women on nickelodeon in front of my 7 yr old kids and no one knows what a man or a woman is anymore. Pride flags on every building and sports team and commercials and companies and buildings and street corners and if you dare oppose them they will pretend like you are a "bigot homophobe" and get you fired from your job and cancelled from anything and everything. And you will still be pretending to be oppressed. This is why gay marriage was a horrific idea. And its going to get much, much worse.

[@ludogibson7067]

The idea of this debate even taking place would have been inconceivable to any Christian that has ever lived from the time of Jesus’ death until about one thousand nine hundred years later.God forgive those who are trying to manipulate our religion, our faith and our church.

[@jutsu1]

They are destroying Christianity.

[@jamesbernardini9063]

To be fair you don't have stray to far from Jesus' death (and resurrection) to find theological debates that would seem inconceivable today. The idea of the trinity is pretty much accepted by all Christians today but in the first couple of centuries not so much.

[@ludogibson7067]

@@jamesbernardini9063 the trinity was a fundamental doctrine affirmed in the councils of Nicaea and Constantinople, both of which were the culmination of centuries of debate over doctrine. So no the debate over the trinity was not inconceivable to Christians.

[@ludogibson7067]

@@jamesbernardini9063 I suppose my point is just that gay marriage in the church was never an issue until it became a secular norm in society

[@J_a_s_o_n]

​@@ludogibson7067 You went to far. We are watching you from Africa and are not too surprised as the rot in morality and value is all over Europe and America (West). We pray for the world. It is best that the churches split with other continents as satan and our mighty God cannot share one altar.

[@susanzeidler3960]

So to sum up Jennifers argument: the church should allow it because I want it to.

[@ZayithyahYisraal]

English isn't my first language but did she use gods instead of God?!?

[@sauvage4740]

“For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, And will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.” ‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭1‬:‭18‬-‭21‬ ‭KJV‬‬ The Church belongs to Christ. He makes the rules and they are very clear in the Bible. I feel sorry that the spirit of this world rules in some churches and in these “wise” people’s minds. You will have no excuse in front of the Lord in the day of Judgment. You chose to give up on God and His holiness and to compromise for the sake of very few people who have spiritual and mental problems. We reap what we sow, that’s all I can say for you and for all of us. “Where there is no fear of God, everything is possible.” F. M. Dostoevsky

[@thfccomps7711]

Well put good sir

[@harryalderson6175]

The church's purpose is not to promote christian values. it is to preach the gospel and to save souls

[@J_a_s_o_n]

2 Peter 2:1 NKJV - But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.

[@juliamonteiro7466]

Seems she is more interested in the number of members in the church growing as opposed to number of people who are being saved, repenting and turning from their sin, living a new life lead by the Spirit.

[@ArizonaMiller-fv8nv]

''i not an expert or part of the church but allow me as a woman to tell you what it says and what you should do with your religion. we'll ignore the part where it says no woman shall hold authority over a man in the church''

[@remiremillard8419]

Nice display of casual sexism from another "loving" christian

[@MrKhan11111]

She has right to express her opinion but I have also right to prove that her whole argument n the stanic statement is absolutely goober.

[@iancoulsonbellmentoring6967]

A poor contribution C-. You cannot, with legitimacy, selectively quote the words and example of Jesus. You cannot use his life and example as being supportive of the motion and then ignore his clear teaching (Matthew 19) on marriage which states that marriage is between a man and women

[@DIBBY40]

I thought the Civil partnerships were an ideal compromise. I had a civil partnership with my partner. What's the problem?

[@alan.smitheeee]

I wish we did that here in the states but of course we had to be bombastic and piss off half the country as some kind of political play. With civil partnerships, everybody wins.

[@beaf6796]

Why should gay people, who love and worship the Lord in the same way as all other Christians, have to make a ‘compromise’ and not be married in the eyes of God?

[@slawsonscot]

@@beaf6796 what does it mean to love and worship the Lord though, according to Jesus? “If you love me, obey my commands” - so, what commands was He referring to? We don’t get to pick and choose the ones that suit us today, because that then suggests that we want to elevate ourselves above Him, and that’s risky ground to place ourselves on. In Matthew 15, Jesus made it very clear what He thought about sexual activity out with the covenant of Biblical marriage, saying that sexual immorality was a sin that flowed from the heart. What was sexual immorality in His day? Any sexual activity, even heterosexual, out with the bounds of covenant Biblical marriage. How do we know that this is the definition? Because that is what was established in Judaism, and that is the trajectory continued by the early Church. One man, one woman in a sexual union. So whether identifying as heterosexual or homosexual, this applied then and applies now.

[@aaronjohnson609]

I’m not religious, but I think gay marriage is fine. I think the argument that people are missing though is not whether gay marriage should be legal, but rather whether gay marriage should be accepted by certain religious groups or not, which is a different argument where religious scripture may actually be used as a good argument for this topic.

[@slawsonscot]

@@aaronjohnson609 i totally hear you. We don’t live in theocracies (as it were), we live in democracies and republics, which means that Biblical morality should be taught rather than enforced at a secular level. But the issue here is that, as you note, this whole issue is within the confines of a church context, and so those who try to encourage homosexual activity are doing so in direct contradiction to clear teachings of Scripture. People out in the world will live according to their own moral ethic, but within the church we aren’t called to live by that, but rather by God’s moral (and in this case, sexual) ethic.

[@ebubechukwuononujumd5013]

God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life

[@joebriggs5781]

Unless of course they consensually love someone of the same sex, then God is out apparently

[@Jeremiah0809]

​@@joebriggs5781, lemme break it down, if your child wants to take drugs, would you encourage them because you love them? If you discouraged them from taking drugs, would it mean you stopped loving them? If you got them therapy, would it mean that you condone their continued use of drugs so that they be changed through therapy? God loves us. He knows best what's best for us. He sent His Son to be the sacrifice for our sins so that by just believing we would be saved. He loves us but doesn't condone sin. He sent us His son as the easier way out. We should not take that for granted and continue to live in sin. That is abuse of His love and grace.

[@joebriggs5781]

@@Jeremiah0809 drugs have a direct negative effect on your body and brain that you can measure. Homosexuality doesn't. They are completely different things. Also, you think therapy "cures" homosexuality? Maybe it can for a small minority of people, but Christians and Catholics should know much better than go down the conversion therapy road again that was so destructive to so many children and adults. It's your opinion that homosexuality is a sin. There is a lot that Christians have gotten wrong throughout the centuries with their translations of the Bible. Homosexuality is also targeted by Christians. Why don't they ban fat people from the Church for gluttony? Go search KZbin for a little bit, are there even anywhere close to the amount of sermons about fat people than there are about homosexuals and trans people? What about rich people with big fancy mansions and houses and cars? Jesus told us not to spend on the things we didn't need and that we should share our surplus. Where's the big lectures debates about that? Very few and far between, probably because they don't want to anger the big donors that help pay for their Mega Church extensions. There are so many other sins that Christians brush off and rarely talk about and don't consider "disallowing" or "discouraging" people for. That's not even just my subjective opinion, it's flat out fact.

[@st.christopher4854]

Self, self, self, self, self. The most important commandment according to Jesus is to love God. St. John the Apostle (who was the disciple whom Jesus loved) said, "love not the world nor the things that are in the world." We must love God first and obey God's commands.

[@snowdog9954]

A secular Church led by the state seems to be what they (including these 'Bishops') want

[@chanceestergall7094]

Utterly Evil.

[@michaelparsons3007]

The most ancient understanding of God’s Love is that it is a purging fire which calls people to repentance. It doesn’t affirm, it calls us higher.

[@HenryLeslieGraham]

not a church leader not a scholar not an activist not even a Christian. wherefore should she be debating this issue??????????????????????????? on what basis

[@jerrycoomberry2541]

What is the point of Christian values if they simply change with what is popular or trendy at a given point in time?

[@terrance8817]

If the world agrees with us as Christians, we are doing something wrong. We came to speak against the world and sin

[@allanhutton1123]

The church does not attract people into membership. It's not like it's a marketing campaign it's a work of God. Don't speak from the heart as it's deceitful above all things.

[@J_a_s_o_n]

That's the devil's altar. Let the real Christians move away from the desicrated altars.

[@dann285]

One word: LOST. Ok, I lied , more than one word. Missy is not sure if she is even a Christian or not, Umm, Christians ARE sure. She is not blinded by the limitations of the past but she is blinded by her sin. In listening to her convictions, I would offer that they are not opinion. One can have an opinion and it can be wrong, but in this case she is not even wrong for her convictions are nonsense or of NO SENSE.

[@SirHargreeves]

Ironically ‘the Bible was written’ during the Roman Empire and was a force for moderation. Rome was a free-for-all and Christianity demanded higher standards of behaviour.

[@SirHargreeves]

@Uncertainty Eclipses Get a grip.

[@Dogooddontbesilly]

The Church is like any other club. Don’t like the rules. Start your own.

[@samruggiero1778]

Woke club have their dogma too and everyone must conform to its ideology.

[@chrisdownunder8745]

She's an outsider as I am but she's blinded by this world's corruption.

[@syafiqsya465]

If human start to change god's word, it's become human word, keep fighting my christian friends, Christianity is not define by secular atheist.

[@bradberkely7448]

"I'm not an expert in Bible studies or Christianity. In fact, like the majority of the English population, I'm not even sure if I am a Christian. There are those, speaking after me, who are far more qualified in scripture than I am. But I am here to talk to you from the heart" then says she's coming from an outside perspective This alone should let you know that she doesn't know what she's talking about She doesn't even know if she's Christian Then you shouldn't speak about Christianity and what it should be. This one minute qualifier should be a disqualifier as to why she's speaking here in the first place

[@zaad5273]

Well now that we're at it, let's legitimize incest and bestiality.

[@clarabruselas8444]

Funny how incest and even pedo£{|~lia happen a lot in christian leadership and communities yet very seldom do you see christians condemn it

[@user-uq7zg4vc8m]

She should convert to orthodox Christianity, abandon wokism, get married, have a large family, and be a homemaker. With her beauty and charisma, that goes best with traditional motherhood. The hand that rocks the cradle, is the hand that rules the world.

[@Orthodoxi]

Our Lord Jesus died for our sins. So we could be reborn without them. Repentant membership is the only membership. Which means you know your sins and are actively repentant for them. In this Jesus through the Holy Spirit reveals what this means in His Kingdom. What damage sin does to the Holy Body of creation. Gods creation. When you know this through living it through Him in the Holy Spirit, you begin to fathom in a tiny Childlike way of purity what any sin means. And love as is brought up here, means you cannot participate in sin without knowing it is the most unloving and evil acts you will commit. Who remembers and knows this today? We have seemingly forgotten, leaving us all open to an argument for sin no longer being sin. The atrocities are already being unsealed. Woe to us all. May we repent so we can gather what the truth is. The Holy truth. Not the truth as man would like it to be. God help us.

[@lovespeaks777]

The fundamental message of Christianity is love. And love does not mean we are to love sin or accept it. Love doesn’t direct people off of the narrow path

[@Michael-wm8un]

Not all types of love are right. “Do not love the world for he who loves the world and what is of the world does not have the love of the Father with him.” Also love is not the foundation of Christianity. It is Jesus Christ.

[@rowankennedy7281]

Wow if only she actually read the Bible, then she would know that all scripture is breathed out by God and therefore infallible. Loving someone doesn’t mean giving someone something they want, in fact it is often the opposite, not giving someone what they want because you know it is bad for them.

[@pinguy2334]

No. God did not write any book.

[@rowankennedy7281]

@@pinguy2334 He did not write it, but he inspired those who did through the Holy Spirit. this is said many times in Scripture, like Mark 13:11

[@rowankennedy7281]

@Follow the howl If you are referring to King Ahaziah being called 22 in 2 Kings, and 42 in 2 Chronicles, there are three main theories that I find. 1) the Chronicles version is referring to his dynasty's reign, which was 42 years by the time he took the throne, whereas Kings refers to his age. 2) Kings refers to when he started co-ruling with his father, and Chronicles refers to when he started ruling on his own. 3) A mistranslation of the Hebrew. I find this one the most likely, especially because plenty of the Hebrew translations we have say 22 in Chronicles and not 42. And not all translations agree on the 42 in Chronicles.

[@pinguy2334]

@@rowankennedy7281 But thats not true at all. All holy books claim that.

[@rowankennedy7281]

@@pinguy2334 Just because all different religions claim that doesn't mean that one of them isn't right.

[@13eenPost]

If they didn't want to follow n share a Christian values and disciplines, they should left the Church and live their foolish life as they wish. But they shouldn't try to modify the Christian principles.

[@sarabee7710]

Exactly. And they wouldn't dare do that with Islam.

[@wendydevereux4375]

The Church does not have the authority to change God's Word to suit modern ideas.

[@rainchic7943]

“You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.”[1] It is not a surprise that this verse seems to say that gay male sex is forbidden in the eyes of God Using bible just to justify the pleasures of every human being is abominable. Please read the bible word for word. May our good Lord enlightened your hearts and mind.

[@arunjosek5175]

Stop telling Christians what to do if you don't even know what it means.

[@fearmonkey]

If one is a believer and born again, Feelings do not supersede God's words, no matter how strongly one may wish it to do so. The holy spirit convicts us to know wrong from right, if you have it....Many people claim to be Christians, but does the holy spirit convict their hearts, you will know them by their fruits... While God is love, he is just and far apart from sin, though we all have our personal demons to conquer, the holy spirit if listened to, doesn't allow us to excuse them.

[@TMCsVideoADay.]

“You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.” It is not a surprise that this verse seems to say that gay male sex is forbidden in the eyes of God. The dominant view of western Christianity forbids same-sex relations. Leviticus 18:22 KJV.

[@paulaivens8063]

We can all have our own opinions but at the end of the day it’s not what you say or what I say but…”What saith the Lord!

[@mitchkahle314]

Religion is irrelevant. Marriage is a civil matter, and a personal matter. To all else, butt out!

[@joshuavstheworld7]

My my, what a modern Gomorrah the world is becoming...

[@vhutshilomophat72]

Her argument is based on the quotes that fit her narrative, she is trying to modernize the Bible according to her academic background. This sounds like someone who is trying to modernize William Shakespeare 's book.

[@Faceless_saint]

Who else noticed how she kept saying "gods"

[@WilliamRobison-ze3ip]

She should’ve just stayed home

[@adrian_7525]

They completely forget that the Trinity will not just bring love to those deserving, but righteous justice to those deserving as well. Even though we are supposed to ¨love¨ people, that doesn´t change the fact that what they do goes against the bible and; therefore, should be rebuked.

[@davidparry5310]

'Love' which condemns people for an intrinsic part of who they are that harms no one when made manifest is not really 'love', at least not any conception thereof that decent person ought to have any truck with, and a god who condemns people to eternal torment for such is not a loving god but a bastard!

[@adrian_7525]

@@davidparry5310 we condemned ourselves if we're talking about Christianity. Love is God giving us a way to be saved from Hell

[@davidparry5310]

@@adrian_7525 A hell that he himself created, and arbitrates as to who gets sent there. Stop trying to let your bastard god off the hook! It won't wash.

[@adrian_7525]

@@davidparry5310 Hell was designed for one being, Satan. Humans ended up there because we sin. That's just how Christianity is whether you believe it or not, you might as well understand how they think.

[@davidparry5310]

@@adrian_7525 'Hell was designed for one being, Satan. Humans ended up there because we sin.' Humans end up in hell because your god deems their thoughts, feelings and actions to be worthy of eternal torment. 'That's just how Christianity is whether you believe it or not' It's how _your interpretation_ of Christianity is. Not all Christians would agree with you.

[@13eenPost]

After a decade the Western world will fight for legalization of murder homicide if that'd be for the good of the murderer🤣🤣🤣

[@ungas024]

Most westerners already did legalize murder via abortion.

[@rebeccachambers419]

Love is not allowing someone to loose their soul anymore than you allow your child to play on the street. Love tells people when they are wrong in order for them to gain their soul.

[@Susieq26754]

Why should we accept what you say? My job is to love you, but I will not comfort you with a lie. Live your life. It is your choice. Free will is a Godly gift. But know what God requires of His followers. We love you, but love should not require that we agree with your opinions.

[@karimparker1323]

Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

[@SaveDeWest]

I wonder if her two fathers brought her into this life is the reason why she has stated she’s not qualified and yet every second sentence mentions the bible.

[@SirGawainDF]

Homosexual acts are forbidden by God and there should be no any discussion about it. God's word is unchangeable and uncompromised. This girl's speech is a fine display of manipulation. A true Christian knows that God is merciful, but he is also just.

[@Winger2020]

10:10 "We should celebrate love in all its forms"...oof, be careful where you go with that line of thought...

[@bobbrown8155]

Is this a British thing? She is dressed as if going out for a fun weekend night. In the US, a young woman giving a serious speech would dress much more professionally. Would she go to a job interview dressed like this? Would she go to work dressed like this? Also, young men giving speeches on the same platform are not dressed in tank tops. As an American, I am curious if this is a British thing or just her. I have seen other young women on this platform dressed as if they are going to a ball. Maybe as students they don’t own professional outfits yet. Young American women seem to be better prepared and more aware about this kind of stuff. Her speech was okay. Needs to improve her delivery and annunciation. I searched her. She gave another speech and she was wearing another black evening gown. Maybe it’s a British thing. Maybe young men and women dress for these events as if they are going to the prom. Strange.

[@DoyinVoice]

My thoughts 100%

[@DoyinVoice]

Definitely not a British thing. we are superior in formal attire and etiquette. It's a "her" problem

[@megasizer5119]

It perplexes me that anybody thinks a religion should start promoting sin.

[@alexemeribechinomso3843]

Using that which is holy to support perversion is blasphemous. Using Love which is pure and not based on sensual desire to describe acceptance is cunning. My opinion is why should same sex marriage be allowed the purity marriage which is man and woman that’s is full stop you can’t change that it’s been in existence since creation( you can argue big bang and scientific reasoning all you want but God created the world) . Biblically all these reasoning should how far debased human mind has gotten Romans 1 tells everything and honestly I see the truth, this not not about gay people this is about allowing sin to be acceptable in the body of Christ, it’s wrong, selfish and as well should never be encouraged. Don’t forget sun begat sun because pedophiles, Thiefs and every other perversion known to man will ask for the same right because to them if love is live then why not let me love whomever or whatever I want. Morals as we call it comes from the foundation of what is good and evil, if we start calling evil good and good evil ( the book of Isaiah says this woe to him who calls evil good and good evil) then we are lost . God I’d love and he demonstrated by giving us Jesus as a ransom for our sin, perverse thinking of this is essentially mockery to Christianity and all it stands for period. Such won’t be suggested to Islam because they know the consequences ( take the just concluded World Cup in Qatar and the experiences) . Concluding I do say this the head of the Church is Christa me if they want to make contradicting suggestion why not take it up with him but then the bible is the foundation and hence will never change hence Repent for the kingdom of God is at hand.

[@rmac1199]

This girl speaking in front of the Oxford union reminds me of the old proverb that says it's better to keep your mouth closed and be thoughtful than to open your mouth and remove all down. Her Lack of knowledge as to what the Bible says and what God meant in the Bible is blairingly obvious.

[@dwl815380]

The fundamental message of Christianity is Truth, more specifically God's sacred Truth, not love because we are specifically told that though we are of this world we should not Love the World. She's already lost her argument!

[@Hadiqag]

Dear first of all there is hella difference between love and lust.

[@PascalDupont561]

Formed a church founded on apostles and prophets. That’s the church we should be seeking. One with divine revelation. Boy could we use that now.

[@E.OrthodoxMHNIN]

She says the church must abandon its most basic moral principles in order to remain a moral leader.

[@GloryCarrier22]

“Science has shown that the earth is 4.6 billion years old” er, actually NO it hasn’t, it’s just that it’s been calculated that that’s how much time would be needed for the theory of macro evolution (a bacteria turning into a horse, etc) to actually work!

[@MyName-cw4yr]

Sorry, but if the bible and tennants say no then its a no. Can't just have everything you want....

[@nuby1012]

How can you not see being gay Is wrong They are mocking Christianity

[@Eiramilah]

God has led me through things that I thought at the time were cruel. Despite feeling betrayed by Him, I kept following Him and over the years God opened my eyes to what He wants and who I really am. His path for me is in fact a huge blessing and was protecting me from myself. We think that God denying us something is mean and cruel, but He has so much more for us than what we want and feel. There is a cost to following Him, and that cost is often laying down our opinions of how things should be done. It's costly but it is well worth it.

[@davidparry5310]

We're talking here about an intrinsic part of who someone is that harms no one when made manifest, and no, your bastard god taking offense at it and damning people to eternal torment on account of it doesn't count as harm! Also spare me the disingenuous BS about how it isn't homosexual _attraction_ that's sinful, only homosexual _behaviour!_ Firstly, it's absurd on its face that you could condemn someone's sexuality made manifest without condemning their sexuality per se. There's a reason why that distinction has never prevailed in practice in the real world. Secondly, according to small-'o' orthodox Christian theology, it isn't only certain actions that are deemed sinful. Certain thoughts and feelings can also be condemned as sinful if they constitute a pattern. Homosexuality is a pattern of thoughts and emotions, and moreover, to reiterate, is one that is an intrinsic part of someone that harms no one made manifest.

[@davidparry5310]

Another thing: If the cost of following your god is inflicting a lifetime of torment upon oneself purely to please him, as it undoubtedly has for countless gay people, then I don't see how anyone could consider that to be worth it.

[@Eiramilah]

@@davidparry5310 with man it is impossible, but with God all things are possible. God doesn't leave us where we are, but He strengthens us to walk the path He sets for us. I am heterosexual and celibate, and watching my friends get married wasn't always easy but God gave me His presence instead of a spouse.

[@davidparry5310]

@@Eiramilah Bully for you! That isn't an option for everyone, and it isn't an option for all gay people. Trying to inflict it upon someone for whom it isn't an option causes them needless torment. A good tree does not yield bad fruit.

[@rowankennedy7281]

@@davidparry5310 celibacy is absolutely an option for gay people. It is not easy, few good things are, and you will be better off not indulging in your sinful desires.

[@markbraunschweig5227]

It would be lovely if I could pick and choose the verses of the Bible that I want to accept, and which ones to ignore. But I can't.

[@MrLocke-bk3om]

People that over-index on biblical reference to love seem to forget the other 99% of the text and the entire mission of Christ.

[@tonymercer7759]

The Bible is not just a key component of Christian faith. It is the foundation stone of Christianity/. Love is not some warm fuzzy that makes one feel good. God is Love and God sets the conditions for love.It is not doing what we think is love, it is behaving in accordance with the principles and boundaries the Bible sets not what the world accepts or promotes.. 1 Corinthians 13 tells us "Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth".Romans 1 tells us that certain behaviour in the guise of "love"is wrong and reprehensible to God. Romans 1 18-32 graphically sets out what behaviour is condemned by God. it is sin which God abhors.

[@J-W]

Here’s a playlist of all 8 arguments kzbin.info/aero/PL8E3F9Xm52glxRv9hTX2d5zndzlzdDpSb