Saruman: Book vs Movie

[@Jess_of_the_Shire]

Try Rocket Money for free: RocketMoney.com/shire

[@dunwitch]

That was truly the most smooth and pertinent sponsor segue in the history of KZbin. Bravo.

[@krikorajemian8524]

My favorite Christopher Lee anecdote involves the filming of Saruman's death scene. PJ was trying to tell him what sound to make when he got stabbed in the back, and CL corrected him, saying he knows how a man reacts when stabbed in the back. Everyone on set suddenly remembered CL was in the SAS during the war, and had likely played out that scene for real.

[@annikinstarkiller600]

They don't scream when it happens in real life

[@Jess_of_the_Shire]

Yes, this is such a good story!

[@sebastianevangelista4921]

@@Jess_of_the_Shire Lee was a badass all around! The dude put out metal albums in his 80s and the music videos for some of his songs were gloriously cheesy.

[@sebastianstroud-klein5332]

This story is becoming the new “did you know Viggo actually broke his foot!!”…

[@jimluebke3869]

@@sebastianevangelista4921 Dude was a Bond villain, for crying out loud.

[@noahmagana137]

Christopher Lee was one of those actors that never gave a bad performance even in bad movies

[@jimluebke3869]

Yeah, "The Man with the Golden Gun" wasn't one of Bond's best.

[@benjamincarrillo6328]

Did you watch 'My syster is a Werewoulf?'

[@hartzogLovesScience]

Christopher Lee put out, making bad movies much better.

[@ElizabethMcCormick-s2n]

Yeah, he was amazing, wasn't he?

[@veghesther3204]

and he was also the ONLY Actor old enough to have actually met JRR Tolkien while HE was still alive.

[@Steelwolf171]

My favourite Christopher Lee story was from the set of "The Man With the Golden Gun". There's a scene where Lee is leading Roger Moore through a cave in Thailand that has a colony of large bats. During one take they disturbed the bats who flew into the shot and Lee (having played Dracula) in many films was reported to have said "Not now, boys".

[@ethanannen2608]

I am not even remotely surprised. He was reported to have a good sense humor

[@crtune]

That's funny. The bats are his fellow actors here. LOL. The Dracula story is a bit like the LOTR, in the sense that the book is far deeper and more subtle than any of the movies, regardless of whether they were the better crafted ones. Chris Lee probably fully read the Bram Stoker "Dracula". He seems to be a literate person more than willing to read up on entire long works given a job at hand. He and I share a willingness to re-read Tolkien as often as opportunity provides (I'm at around thirty LOTR reads now).

[@neemz0117]

Also. Fleming and Lee served together. Lee was supposedly the inspiration for James bond.

[@rikhuravidansker]

@@neemz0117 He was among a few inspirations.

[@banhammer3904]

James Bond is a composite character. He is also a nobody, an orphan.

[@DavidMacDowellBlue]

One of the nuances I always adored about Lee's performance is this sense of how broken Saruman was, that (in the films) he had vied with Sauron (probably via the Palantir) and failed. The Dark Lord made him kneel and obey. At least in FOTR you could still see part of him recoiling from what he'd become, like when he hugged himself for comfort after speaking with Sauron. He seemed sorry that Gandalf would now be destroyed. And he put so much nuance into the line "There are none who can..." carrying with it a confession that Sauron had turned the once mighty and wise White Wizard into His servant, maybe even his slave.

[@shadowking9739]

Excellent take! And during the initial scene between the two wizards, Saruman seems to be talking about Sauron in a way that implies both fear and awe, like he is afraid of the Dark Lord but also sees his brilliance and wants to learn from him, perhaps to even overthrow him one day. The scene with Lurtz declaring that he serves Saruman and Gandalf's "There is only one Lord of the Rings" line both seem to tie into this as well. Film Saruman deemed Sauron too great a threat to fight against, at least openly, so he took the "logical route" for self-preservation's sake and to apparently play the long game.

[@HighPriestFuneral]

I loved Christopher Lee's interpretation of Saruman, there is still a sense that he's out for himself ("Whom do you serve?" "Saruman!") And of course, if he got the ring, he would claim dominion over it, not give it to Sauron. While at the same time rolling with the punches that are thrown at him. There is one great moment that in my opinion doesn't get the credit it deserves (mainly because it's Extended Edition) where Grima tells Saruman about the man ("one of the Dunedain Rangers, I thought he was...") that traveled with Gandalf you see his eyes grow wider as a sense of weariness and doubt creeps in and Wormtongue explains the ring on Aragorn's finger. Saruman goes to his books of lore and finds that it is the Ring of Barahir. For just an instant you can see regret in Saruman's eyes, and his voice lightly quivers. "So Gandalf Greyhame thinks he has found Isildur's heir... the lost King of Gondor..." He tries to laugh it off to himself and says, "He is a fool, that line was broken years ago." He shuts the book and continues to look into the distance, trying to convince himself, "It matters not." Basically, affirmation that Gandalf did find Isildur's heir, however, he is consigned to his fate, but there is little joy in it. "The world of men will fall..."

[@FarrisG]

Saruman being known for using the power of his voice was a perfect character for Christopher Lee to portray. Especially because Christopher Lee had a badass deep and commanding voice. Honestly genius casting 🥰

[@crtune]

The high quality of Jackson's production group in casting is to be commended. Every actor was a great choice, imo. Looking at the ancillary videos in the Director's Cut box set, we see a group of people truly working well together on a really extensive production. The choices of people turned out remarkable in their having gelled to create a theatrical company among the best ever assembled.

[@warlordofbritannia]

There’s a video from 2010 or so that I still look up once in a while, it’s Saruman singing that “Trolololo” song

[@raifthemad]

Even though he wanted to play Gandalf.

[@Bournie-d4y]

Sir Lee did originally apply for the part of Gandalf, which Tolkien gave his blessing for.

[@martinmould2598]

I agree with you about Christopher Lee. I really like the scouring of the Shire, Saruman's industrialization and spoiling of the Shire is nearly a piece of cake to remedy for the four battle-hardened hobbits. My favorite part of the scouring is the sudden bravery, the surprise redemption, of Lobelia Sackvile-Baggins.

[@missanne2908]

I also like that there is a mention of Fatty Bolger. By the third book I had forgotten his contribution to getting the hobbits safely out of the Shire, and was glad to get that reminder.

[@Rwthless1]

The point of the cleansing of the Shire shows the hobbits of the Shire that they are equal to the task of defending their homes. The Four adventurers just show them what they can do. Even disregarding Saruman's lies.

[@warlordofbritannia]

@@Rwthless1 Also that you can’t go back to how things were before, which foreshadows Frodo’s own resolution.

[@SilenzioDiEsistenza]

@@Rwthless1 perhaps that is why they never got rings (or where supposed to at least lol the one ring). they are a resilient people, hard to corrupt, and great fighters. just they don't choose to do so (like bombadil). also they seem to be inspired by socialist communes, as they value so much communal living, and gain their strength through friendship, which shows between frodo and sam, and between merry and pippin in their travels (most apparent when merry and pippin sacrifice themselves to be kidnapped by the uruk hai, which inspires boromir to go beyond his strength in fighting the uruk hai) on can argue that bilbo is capitalist, and a hoarder, but the fact that bilbo is so rich is not because of exploiting people, but from the treasure he got from the dragon. dwarves seem to be closer to the capitalist, but the anarcho capitalist variety. so they are still likable even they are corrupted by their greed.

[@rikhuravidansker]

Yes, the original Petunia Dursley, which the Harry Potter version never gets (and is never punished for acting like Lily abandoned her).

[@the_devils_jester]

I think Saruman terrorising the shire and his end show us how small and bitter personal evil really is. All Saruman cared about was power but in the end, when defeated, he resorted to oppressing the hobbits for no real gain. He would never have gained real power like this. The only thing he has left is spite and kicking those who are still weaker than him.

[@Jess_of_the_Shire]

"Bitter" is an excellent way to describe him

[@sebastianevangelista4921]

@@Jess_of_the_Shire Yep

[@allanorme2093]

Amazing how in just 6 months Saruman went from being the advisor of Kings and living in Isendgard, leading the Wizard council... To being beaten by Halflings who smoked weed 1000x a day, but have only fought like 2x 3000 years apart

[@sebastianevangelista4921]

@@allanorme2093 That might just be the best summary of the character that I've heard thus far.

[@biovmr]

@@sebastianevangelista4921 LOL I’m not sure about the “best” summary, but it sure is the funniest one.😂

[@IsaacKuo]

"Damnit Gandalf, YOU could amass an army of your own also, if you'd just get rid of your spurious subscriptions!" Later, with like a zillion trees: "Saruman, it turns out that canceling all my magazine and newspaper subscriptions was a popular move in some quarters."

[@sebastianstroud-klein5332]

But it wasn’t “a slight breeze” that blew Saruman’s spirit away! The wind came from the west: that was the Valar denying him a return to Valinor!

[@allanorme2093]

"Ahh come on, you gave Gandalf a second chance!! AND A PROMOTION!!!"

[@Geraduss]

When she read that quote from the book I was adding the words to Saruman, "Can I finally go home now? Is this torment over?" And Manwe with that wind saying simply "No."

[@GravesRWFiA]

how i read it too

[@rikhuravidansker]

Since it said "about the body of Saruman a mist began to gather," rather than "began to form," this implies what we saw was not Saruman's fea: I was thinking it was a spirit subservient to him, but due to the words "and it began to rise, like grey smoke" despite being described as mist, this implies it was an entity associated with fire, rain, sleet, and darkness (in Classical mythology, Kaos/Janus came from Mist), so perhaps Saruman imbued himself with part of Morgoth's Ring?

[@rikhuravidansker]

@@allanorme2093 I have been wondering about something for months: is Gandalf's promotion a higher rank than being "Gandalf of Many Colours?" And is "Gandalf the Black" higher than "Gandalf of Many Colours?"

[@williampalmer8052]

I can definitely understand why Jackson decided to use Saruman to personify the more abstract threats the Fellowship faced in their quest, but at the same time I think he overdid it, and undermined some of the books' themes. In the end, though, I think Lee's performance did the character justice despite Jackson's alterations. As for the Scouring of the Shire, I would have really liked to see it presented as a short film of its own using all of the actors and resources of the trilogy. Maybe Sam is sitting by the fire with Elanor, and she wants to hear the "real" story of his return to the Shire. "Oh, I'm not sure if you're old enough to hear all that..." "I am so!" "Well, alright, then..." And congrats on 150K! It makes me happy to see your continuing success.

[@hartzogLovesScience]

That is a good idea. Now, that the “Rings of Power” have completed two great seasons, perhaps a short of the “Scouring of the Shire”. Note that Sam, Pippen and Merry stood as the hero of the Shire.

[@exantiuse497]

Scouring of the Shire (as well as Tom Bombadil and the Barrow wight scene) are why I want a Lord of the Rings tv series. A lot needs to be cut for a 3-hour movie but a tv series of 8-10 one hour episodes per novel would be able to fit every scene, and not have to cut the dialogue so much

[@The4ToedStatue]

When I re-read the books as an adult, I was most intrigued by the fact that Saruman isn't really on Sauron's side. He pays him lipservice at best, all the while lying to the Nazgul, searching for Isildur's body (and thereby the ring), and even forging his own ring. Had the Host of the West been defeated but Sauron not yet gained the ring, I fully believe there would be war between Orthanc and Barad-dur.

[@warlordofbritannia]

Of course, Sauron would have won that war. The Dark Lord may have been a shadow of Morgoth, but Saruman was playing the imitation of that shadow.

[@exantiuse497]

@warlordofbritannia Saruman's army loses to a fraction of Rohan's force, Mordor nearly beats the combined might of Gondor and Rohan. If Gondor was defeated there definitely would have been a war between Sauron and Saruman - a very short and one-sided war in the former's favor I read a military analysis on the battle/war between Isengard and Rohan, and the conclusion was that Saruman lost the war as soon as he openly attacked Rohan. His only key to victory was obtaining the Ring, and trying to get it revealed his hand to Sauron who would have killed him after defeating the forces of Men. Once the orc party sent to obtain ithe Ring was destroyed Saruman's only way to survive was to align with the free peoples and hope for Sauron's defeat - which was obviously not an option anymore after he declared war on them

[@SirBolsón]

As Treebeard once wisely said, "A WIZARD SHOULD KNOW BETTER!"

[@JXEditor]

“Where is the Ring, Gandalf?! Would you rather the Dark Lord have it? Or SARUMAN OF MANY COLORS?!?” 🌈🪄

[@genghisgalahad8465]

You...or I! (Points upward)....or Saruman of Manycullaaaas!!! (Is handed a giant glowing Cheez Curl) Later, Gandalf: Garuman!!! Sarumang!! GARUMANG!!

[@josiprakonca2185]

Pride Saruman.

[@warlordofbritannia]

AROOMAN!

[@JXEditor]

@@warlordofbritannia Nixon?

[@revylokesh1783]

Back when Fellowship was about to have its world premier in London, I was lucky enough to win tickets to not only attend the red carpet event and screening, but also the subsequent dinner party for all the actors, crew, and guests. I was able to get autographs from all the lead actors (except Kate Blanchett who didn't attend because she had just given birth, and Liv Tyler who was just too popular and always surrounded by too many people) and I was able to shake Sir Christopher's hand and exchange a few words with him. Some of the best memories of my life.

[@tomhoornstra1954]

I'd say that the chief difference between movie and book Saruman lies in the way madness is portrayed. The unnerving gleam in his eyes (Christopher Lee at his chilling best) as he states "We must join with him, Gandalf .. it would be wise, my friend", in contrast to the insidious line of argument he employs in the book: the ends basically justify the means. Morally questionable or outright deplorable devices can somehow be made to serve good and noble ends. Madness wrapped in a cloak of reason. That this has become all-too-common in our day, doesn't make it any less mad. Just less-obviously mad ... until you see what it ultimately leads to. I'd take a mad gleam in the eye of a wizard over a politician's speech any day.

[@apollyonorange2531]

Saruman is perhaps a great example of a right hand man to the "big bad evil guy." In the book Saruman is supreme and yet as the story unfolds we see just how powerless he is to Sauron. 4:52 Sir Christopher Lee does an excellent job at portraying the madness and the greed of possessing knowledge and power. 5:55 The direction taken here in the movie does a lot with the small screen time. 6:59 The all color metaphor is intense and almost absurd. Just as Saruman who is all powerful and all knowing, would rather break his own morality. He made himself weaker in the long run. He thought to overthrow his alliances, whilst unknowingly making them stronger. 21:08 It is also a surprisingly cold scene, specially with Grima also dying quite unceremoniously. Not onl is Saruman's plans and power gone, but everything that he held and corrupted is almost pitable. The book convayes a similar message. It takes a common hobbit to undo all Saruman ever did. Saruman used everything in his power to death, and his own product killed him. After him nothing lasted.

[@tarmaque]

I see Saruman is to Sauron as Sauron is to Morgoth. Each a shadow of the power of their master, yet each a bane to their own era.

[@desertmammoth3159]

Yeah but he made sick looking orcs. 10/10 would lead an army of fighting Uruk-Hai to battle.

[@crtune]

@@desertmammoth3159 I think almost every body builder in New Zealand was enlisted to provide convincing Uruk-Hai actors (these being thrust into the front of camera roles). There cannot be many who have developed their physique to that extent in New Zealand (it is really not easy to create epic body build). But the great production of LOTR was probably known to most people in this nation. I'm pretty certain the gyms had much conversation about joining up into this production to make truly convincing and scary orcs and to put NZ on the map as a logical place to make movies.

[@TwistedChungus]

@@crtune IIRC, body-builders, rugby players, and our actual armed forces were all prime Orc and Uruk-Hai recruitment sources.

[@MrZatt]

Jess: "Saruman provokes Wormtongue, Wormtongue stabs Saruman, Saruman falls to his death." - KZbin cuts to Ad, Sound of smth breaking with extreme crunch - followed by an Ad for Twix. The timing was just so hilarious 😂 Thanks for your great work and best wishes from Germany ❤

[@johnwalters1341]

Another excellent video! It is interesting to compare Saruman's end with Sauron's: "Then rising swiftly up, high above the mountains, a vast soaring darkness sprang into the sky, flickering with fire...black against the pall of cloud, there rose a huge shape of shadow, impenetrable, lightning-crowned, filling all the sky. Enormous it reared above the world, and stretched out towards them a vast threatening hand, terrible but impotent: for even as it leaned over them, a great wind took it, and it was all blown away, and passed; and then a hush fell." Saruman's "pale shrouded figure" is also blown away, an insignificant image of his former master. Christopher Lee had wanted for many years to play Gandalf in a LOTR film, but by the time Peter Jackson & Co. were able to realize the project, Lee was simply too old for the physically-demanding role of Gandalf the Grey. As Saruman, he had mostly to sit on his throne and act malevolent. After watching the Making Of videos that accompanied the DVD releases of the movies, it is clear to me that Christopher Lee understood Tolkien's vision better than anyone else in the production, including the screen-writers.

[@crtune]

The "winds" are quite interesting in Tolkien legendarium. This is Manwe's domain (he is the most powerful of the Valar and considered their leader; he does not deeply relate to ordinary people in M.E, but he leads and works with other Valar in matters of importance). He is portrayed as being the "angel" or "god" of winds and of eagles. He seems to express himself and his master Eru Iluvitar via the airs and winds of the earth. Middle earth. It seems somehow fitting that our very atmosphere is an actor in the great dramas of the world. This is much like our real world where man has learned to fly like the birds, but is still subject to the whims of winds.

[@fuferito]

Sarumam does, indeed, end up the victim of a relentless inevitability; "The Ents justify the means."

[@itsgorani9133]

Congratulations to 150k subscribers Jess 🎉

[@Jess_of_the_Shire]

Thanks so much!

[@sebastianevangelista4921]

@@Jess_of_the_Shire May you reach a million within the foreseeable future!

[@crtune]

@@Jess_of_the_Shire I personally think you deserve MILLIONS of subs. You do a wonderful job of presenting and delving into the questions around this material. It's quite clear you are devoted to the material and to the theater arts and crafts related to good art. We are with you.

[@williamblack6912]

My dream was to get an audiobook Version of LotR narrated by Christopher Lee.

[@ianosburn9562]

I mean we at least got children of hurin

[@namelesswarrior1187]

​@@ianosburn9562 I came here to say this. Not many people know about it though

[@williamblack6912]

@@ianosburn9562 That made it even worse.

[@Jess_of_the_Shire]

That would be sublime

[@jaksonandray]

Maybe with AI

[@kaguya6900]

Nothing against Christopher Lee who is a legend, but I love the book Saruman because his motivations and attitudes are so understandable and consistent. He is playing is own game in the book (as opposed to the movie where he is a living representation of Sauron), trying to pretend to side with Sauron but in reality trying to get the ring in order to defeat Sauron and set himself up as ruler of the world. Even in the end when he is reduced to acting like a beggar, he is still self-aggrandizing while in the midst of self-pity. He thought he did everything necessary to obtain the ring. His plot was perfectly logical. But it was never, ever even close to getting within his grasp. He had lost the war the moment Frodo passed across the lake on the boat with Sam, but he never realized it. The scene with Saruman I would most have liked to see, both in the book and the movie, is a few days after the fall of Eisengard, a nazgul visits Saruman. I would have liked to have seen that scene. Saruman putting everything he has into his voice, trying to convince that he never had a chance against Rohan and the Ents and that the hobbit that Sauron saw in the Palantir was never really in Saruman's possession in the first place. I think a scene of Saruman desperately trying to convince a doubtful nazgul that he (Saruman) did nothing wrong would be glorious.

[@RoboSteave]

Time spent with you is always time well spent! How do you speak so eloquently for so long without a hitch? Note cards, a teleprompter, great memory or ability to just go with it? Ooh, are there Jess outtakes we might see some day? Anyway, thanks. You are a treasure.

[@Jess_of_the_Shire]

I script my videos, and memorize a line, say it to the camera, then forget it ad memorize the next one haha. Most of my outtakes are just me flubbing a line and staring blankly ahead as I try to reset my brain to try again, so I'm not sure they'd be very fun lol. Thank you so much for your support!

[@RoboSteave]

@@Jess_of_the_Shire You must have quite the memory to do such a great job! I think I have a pretty good memory and I, uh, uh... forgot what I was going to say. Anyway, you're most welcome. Your videos are a delight!

[@rinmathews9337]

Rest in peace to a legend.

[@rickkarrer8370]

Christopher Lee was a whole extra-magical addition to the movies.I'm sl glad he got to be in a good adaptation, and I'm glad we got to have him.

[@alankarst86]

I can’t listen to these videos when driving anymore. Your voice is so captivating I forget to focus on, you know, driving.

[@frankkutzler2758]

I really love your stuff. It's like I'm in high school again, when I could never really understand a story, and the literature people in the class would gently (more or less) point out to me all the things I missed. I'm really glad I found your channel.

[@stevenreckling203]

Lol, that sponsor transition is gold.

[@TrebizondMusic-cm6fp]

The book's scene of the parley at Orthanc is one of the wisest and most powerful parts, showing an elegant example of Saruman's powers of emotional manipulation and his tactics of playing the victim. Thanks to Tolkien's inspired words, I've been able to recognize how many people cast Saruman spells in our world.

[@christopherblanchard-w5z]

Palpatine

[@softestsoap]

The Scouring of the Shire is one of my favorite parts in the book and I definitely wish it was in the movie (even with Saruman's death removed). It's constantly foreshadowed throughout the movie, so it's a bit of a let-down and plot hole that the Shire is totally fine and normal when the Hobbits return. It's also just a great way of showing how the Hobbits have grown and changed compared to the Hobbits that never left the shire. They are so brave and have formed their own convictions, astounded that the Shirefolk let themselves be walked all over. After the horror of the main adventure, it is so cool for them to have this moment of personal victory. It's just one of my favorite scenes!! Sorry for the essay, love your video as always :)

[@samuelmcneill1871]

21:29 “That’s classic Peter Jackson” and the dead look in your eyes got me to an actual spit-take. Well delivered.

[@semihmasat]

Please don’t stop doing these videos. I cannot express how much I enjoy them. I was fascinated with the book Saruman when I was first reading the book. And while reading it hoped that he would redeem himself before the end. That’s why’s the scouring of the shire and his death shocked me a lot. I remembers saying “let it go old man, just learn your lesson and be ok” when he was yelling at grima before getting shanked. So it was ok for me to not see his final demise on the movies :) And Christoper Lee converted this character to something bit different but also great. I also cannot choose between them.

[@crtune]

When I went out and bought the directors cut of the movies, it was Saruman who was front of my mind on this. I knew there were likely very good scenes of Saruman and his fall which had not made the theater release of the movies. I was not disappointed. There is an epic scene of Saruman confronting the forces of Rohan, Aragorn, and Gandalf at the site of Orthanc. This is adaptation, of course, since Saruman in the book lasts until he is defeated in the Scouring of the Shire. It is quite good work nonetheless. We fans are more than willing to accommodate sincere adaptation, but not subversion, of the original materials.

[@semihmasat]

@@crtune yeah, was also excited about the extended edition. Did not get disappointed at all. Loose adaptation but somehow keeps the magic

[@st.anselmsfire3547]

I was kind of surprised when the extended editions came out that they didn't include the Scouring of The Shire. That was a fun chapter. But... the movie already had severe ending fatigue. So I see why Jackson dropped it. Still, would've been cool for a special feature on the DVD.

[@bugsby4663]

Jess, your fangs looked brilliant. Here are a few cool facts about Christopher Lee: 1) He saw the last public execution in France, 2) His WW2 activities led to Ian Fleming basing James Bond on Lee, and 3) He was a heavy metal singer in his eighties and was genuinely respected by other metal musicians.

[@shadowking9739]

*1)* He was also Ian Fleming's step-cousin, *2)* mother was an Italian countess, *3)* has the record for playing Dracula the most times (10, between 1958-1976), *4)* recorded two metal rock opera albums about Charlemagne (one in 2010, the other in 2015), who was his distant relative, *5)* holds the Guinness World Record for oldest video game narrator (at 91) for Lego The Hobbit, *6)* When exiting the airport to begin shooting "Howling II: Your Sister Is a Werewolf" in the former Czechoslovakia, the natives greeted Lee with a hero's welcome as he'd apparently been involved in the assassination of high-ranking SS officer Reinhard Heydrich and was also (supposedly) personally involved in the arrest of Heydrich's replacement Ernst Kaltenbrunner.

[@soditit]

He was a member of the S.O.E. in WW2 if I remember correctly. Only actor in LOTR who knew how to kill someone. And record holder most swordfights on the big screen.

[@PhoenixBlade]

This is one of my favorite scenes in the books. He is written so well.

[@tarmaque]

Christopher Lee wanted so desperately to play Gandalf that I would have forgone his sublime performance as Saruman just to see it. That would have been epic. And yet, who to play Saruman opposite such a performance? Aye, that's the rub. Perhaps he could have played both roles? An interesting thought!

[@exantiuse497]

Christopher Lee was a nice man but he was meant for villain roles - he is just so intimidating in all the roles I've seen him in, including when he plays a good guy. I can't imagine him as Gandalf

[@tarmaque]

@@exantiuse497 Try to find a copy of _Jinnah_ (1998) which Lee considered his best dramatic performance. It's a biopic about a Pakistani politician you've never heard of who fought for an independent Pakistan.

[@annikinstarkiller600]

The Istari in LotR are so well-written it blows me away every time I read

[@johnwalters1341]

"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." I've always regretted that this line never made it into the movies.

[@Jess_of_the_Shire]

They're perhaps the best example of Tolkien's sheer writing talent

[@crtune]

@@Jess_of_the_Shire His way with words has kept me coming back. Merely hearing the words is quite enough for me. The fact that he created such an extensive mythos, and world is just more justification to come back and read the entire work again and again. I think your videos are like this. I probably will come back again and again and hear what you have to say in commentary around the works.

[@paulpasche7853]

Imho, the breeze that dispersed Saruman's mist-spirit, came from the west because it was Manwe, lord of the air, denying Saruman returning to Valinor

[@Jess_of_the_Shire]

Great catch!

[@sebastianevangelista4921]

No stone went unturned under Tolkien's watch.

[@justins21482]

HELL YEAH jess, 150k subscribers almost solely on LOTR is a fantastic accomplishment. "High Five!" in my best Borat voice impresssion! 🤣 in hindsight this sounds incredibly sarcastic but I promise I'm being sincere

[@Jess_of_the_Shire]

Thank you so much! High five accepted!

[@stevenevenshow2790]

It was something Letterman said about Morgan Freeman, and I'm paraphrasing, but I think it fits Sir Christopher Lee as well: "Even in bad movies, once your character enters a scene it gets so much better" again, paraphrasing

[@differous01]

In Unfinished Tales is an alternative version where the Nazgul arrive just as Gandalf has escaped Orthanc, but Saruman uses his Voice to deceive even the Nine. It seems his ring gave him the power to break the "white light" AND the black.

[@squamish4244]

Yeah, I feel the same way about the wizard invisible slapfight. It just looks dumb. I think all that needed to happen for the visual medium was for Saruman to hurl Gandalf back against the wall as in the first part of the scene. That would have been enough to show Gandalf's powerlessness against him. I even told a friend who hadn't read the books what happens there, and he said, "Yeah, that makes sense". ROTK frankly has a lot of fat on it, as Jackson had started to get sloppy since TT with the editing of unnecessary or overlong scenes ever since the massive success of the first film. (IMO we did not need a warg attack in a theatrical cut that was already packed with action - the #1 complaint I heard was "too much fighting") It has about half an hour that could be cut. That's plenty of time to include Saruman's death scene.

[@Gawainer]

This is so good. Christopher Lee had a powerful presence and projected dignity in the role of Saruman. He was also a lifelong student of the occult and in his advanced age played in a heavy metal band.

[@lenanana8]

RIP Sir Christopher Lee, a classic enigmatic and poignant actor. What I loved about his portrayal of Saruman as a child was his the nuanced embellishments he would add in his voice, face and body language that brought the eerie, sinister but ancient character of Saruman to life. His deep resonant voice gave me chills every time, and the way he would curve his neck in the Orthanc scene when he fights Gandalf or when he curls his fingers over the Palantir in such an inhuman, sinister way just gave so much volume to the evil that Saruman in the books embraced. What an amazing and timeless performance. I'd love your take on book vs. movie Theoden, because he was a character that my mum did not like in the movies for his arrogance, despite him being more honorable and wise in the books.

[@f1L0zof]

not two minutest have passed of the video and I'm already AMAZED by your wellsokeness. Lovely video, thank you lady 🌹

[@st.anselmsfire3547]

Raising an army of Uruk-Hai has been one of my financial goals, so thank you for telling me about Rocket Money. Orcs are really expensive.

[@bobsteele9581]

Another brilliant video Jess. Excellent analysis of the character of Saruman and as a big fan of Christopher Lee myslef, your discussion of him near the end of the video was much appreciated. Loved the little flash of fangs when you said "Dracula" 🤣👍

[@Zotrax1946]

30:02 I’ve read, watched and listened to hundreds of this kind of analysis and reviews- never have I learned something that is such a novelty of a comparison, that made my ears perk and my mind open. Kudos for you, plenty of!

[@crtune]

I admire Mr. Lee because he is likely a person who had read the LOTR Trilogy even more often than myself (me-I've read them nearly thirty times). That is devotion. His having met the author and his obvious devotion to this story are everywhere evident. Also, Chris Lee was not merely another actor, regardless of the fact he was a GOOD Actor. This Hammer thing was an industry phenomenon filling a public desire for color horror movies, with the budgets not really being super high. Their studio did have good production people, but was covering a genre, and doing it on a narrow spend. He had served in intelligence operating work during WW II. This means he had been extensively trained and had deployed into areas controlled by enemy forces-that is the extent we know of Mr. Lee's time in intel work-he has been confirmed as working in the area, but he does not enumerate the details, given government secrets policies. There was a lot of this kind of work during this war and later there was much more. Lee undoubtedly learned and participated in some amazing things. So, no wonder he was such a high effort individual.

[@johnborheck3022]

Your channel is so great! I have 90% of Tolkiens books, mostly deluxe versions, the poems books, and the new Oct 2024 blue leather lotr new box set, it's the nicest yet, imo...I am such a geek, and I have just now came across utube videos on Tolkiens books. It makes me comfortable that I'm not alone in liking these books. I had a paperback box set as a child I read, so maybe that's why I like the amazingly beautiful renditions of these books, all these years. Thanks for doing your channel. I'll watch fo sho!!!!

[@Makkaru112]

Name all of them for the newbies and others out there. ❤

[@davidtatro7457]

One of your absolute best videos yet. You have beautifully summarized and contrasted the best atrributes of both the literary and film characters, and also delivered a gorgeous tribute to Christopher Lee. One of my greatest pleasures in life during the time period in question was getting to watch Lee excell both as Saruman and as Count Dooku in the Star Wars saga. Also, l think it's worth noting that the magic chemistry between Lee and McKellen is one of the greatest of many high points in the films. One can only imagine the great respect these two old masters must have had for one another.

[@DickensbyDickinson]

I wonder if Saruman's being rolled into the swamps of Orthanc is also an allusion to a similar moment in Arthurian Myth. According to Malory, the night before the battle in which Mordred would take his life, he has a dream with some startlingly similar imagery: "So upon Trinity Sunday at night king Arthur dreamed a wonderful dream, and that was this, that him seemed he sat upon a chaflet in a chair, and the chair was fast to a wheel, and thereupon sat king Arthur in the richest cloth of gold that might be made: and the king thought there was under him, far from him, an hideous deep black water, and therein were all manner of serpents, and worms, and wild beasts, fowl and horrible: and suddenly the king thought the wheel turned up so down, and he fell among the serpents, and every beast took him by a limb." Interesting thought -

[@cinematograph25]

Saruman is impaled like Dracula in Dracula 1972, which starred Saruman actor Christopher Lee. That's the reference.

[@teambanzai9491]

I do like the fact that Christopher Lee, Vincent Price, and Peter Cushing were all legends in horror films and were also good friends.

[@Bobbyholland901]

Alas, when I watch your videos, I feel like Gimli in the presence of Galadriel.

[@Operator-i7]

I like your clear and descriptive format! great video!

[@ronaldmccomb8301]

I couldn’t pick between the two either. Great job as always, Miss Jess. Have a hobbits week during the season when the hobbit home feels the comfiest.

[@markp6062]

Another great exposition! Thanks for sharing it with us!

[@RABartlett]

Lee's Hammer Horror days were Masterpiece Theater compared to some stretches in his career. In the 90's it included a Police Academy sequel, being outsmarted by Tom Arnold in *The Stupids*, a few "Hey, it's public domain" knockoffs to whatever Disney was doing, and a recurring role in a very cheap Robin Hood show that was made in the wake of *Hecules: The Legendary Journeys*. He was clearly enjoying the most his renaissance and it's really cool one of his last roles was a part in Martin Scorsese tribute to fantasy filmmaking.

[@jasonknight8581]

Saruman also makes a cute yet evil sock puppet, iykyk.

[@Jess_of_the_Shire]

Now that's a throwback

[@sebastianevangelista4921]

@@Jess_of_the_Shire I rewatched it a week or two ago and it's still a lot of fun! I kind of miss your goofier content ngl and I think your Veggie Tales video might still be my favorite of yours.

[@Frank_D]

Christopher Lee is one of those actors I'm always delighted to see when he shows up on screen. An absolute legend, a descendant or Charlemagne, the inspiration for James Bond (Ian Fleming was his cousin), and a heavy metal singer. NECA recently released an action figure of him as Dracula, and I'm eagerly awaiting its arrival. I frequently borrowed the Horror of Dracula from my local library when I was younger.

[@Yandarval]

Well done on the fangs, Jess. Speaking naturally with them in. Sir Christopher would be proud. The Hammer films are the UK's equivalent of US B movies of the 50s to 70s..

[@BaldricOutremer]

The Scouring of the Shire would never have worked in a movie, but it is a very important part of the book. I'd be really interested in a video about it !

[@Dowlphin]

Christopher Lee's voice for Death in the animated TV series Soul Music is another highlight; particularly the dramatic scene when Susan confronts him about her parents' death.

[@guilhermefaleiros4892]

I'll read LOTR in english for the first time at 28 years old (I've read it in portuguese once, but it's badly translated). Seeing theses videos is like having a glimpse at the books that didnt arrived yet. I'm very excited for that :D

[@maxrates]

Saruman made a Christopher Lee fan out of me (R.I.P.)

[@bomcabedal]

I've just read the books (well, the first two) for the first time, and the most astonishing thing I got from it how Saruman wasn't really in league with Sauron, but rather his competitor and strived to gain the ring from himself. In the movies, he's presented as Sauron's henchman immediately, but that's very different from how Tolkien presented him.

[@johntrifunov9597]

I love Sir Christopher after watching him in Attack of the Clones and LOTR i watched about...200-400 movies and shows he was in but for me the standout was going to be....If tolkien writes the History of Fantasy then Terry Pratchett writes what happens after the war is won happy days are here again and Christopher Lee as DEATH of the Discworld is even greater than Saurman...I WILL DIE ON THIS HILL. Fr though Without Tolkien and Wodehouse i don't think Terry would have started Writing such EXCELENT characters and this is an actual quote from the man himself "J.R.R. Tolkien has become a sort of mountain, appearing in all subsequent fantasy in the way that Mt. Fuji appears so often in Japanese prints. Sometimes it’s big and up close. Sometimes it’s a shape on the horizon. Sometimes it’s not there at all, which means that the artist either has made a deliberate decision against the mountain, which is interesting in itself, or is in fact standing on Mt. Fuji.

[@isaacchillman11]

Congrats on 150

[@jose280714]

"The Council of Elrond" is a chapter heavy in Lore... this chapter is the point where many loose ropes are tied and connected, Legolas tells his tale, Gloín tells his, etc... the account of Gandalf here is huge given importance of him... even Elrond provides an account of the Battle of the Last Alliance, etccc... when reading the book vs the movie, reaching this chapter hits differently having read the Silmarillion and all background, because so far the Lord of the Rings mostly elaborates so far on Frodo's adventure to Rivendell being chase by these Black Riders...

[@marknovak6498]

I kept on thinking the final scenes with the level wizard in the book illustrated that Majic was receding in the world with the One ring's demise.

[@tavdy79]

I hope your sore throat is getting better. I would not have guessed you had one. My sore throats tend to be vicious, however I don't lose my voice so much as find my range expanded to include new and interesting sounds. I once gave a rendition of I Monster's "Daydream in Blue" when I had a sore throat (hat tip: the chorus is a LOT of fun when you've been gargling cheese graters) and when I sang the chorus it REALLY really weirded out my friend's spaniel. To be fair, the track is kinda weird to begin with, but hearing someone you're familiar with go straight from fluid Lothlorien elven-song to gritty Khazad-Dum ork in a split second would definitely make it even weirder if you're not expecting it.

[@mattcorley4622]

I watch a lot of these "nerd lore" channels, but this is the only one I have never skipped. Your take and interpretation of these books are excellent. Mainly my comment is to push the algorithm, but also thanks for the work.

[@muzgash]

We musn't forget about "The Diary of Curumo", the missing link that ties it all together and explains his inner turmoil so brilliantly.

[@germainelowpt7206]

Quite a good video, as usual!

[@Treia24]

I'm amused that just as I was thinking, "Oh, I'm so glad now, in a way I wasn't when the films first came out, that the Saruman of Many Colours reveal wasn't shown, because after so many years of building up the idea of that costume in my head as this impossibly finespun prismatic shot silk in thousands of colours, as thin and flowing as Dhaka muslin, nothing actually physically possible irl could live up to that," the very next line in the video is you saying you wish that scene had been in the films *because* of that costume. In general, I enjoy seeing your perspective on the book/film comparisons as someone who saw the films first. I'd been obsessed with the books for years before the Peter Jackson films came out, and it definitely influences how I experience them.

[@Makkaru112]

Saruman never served Sauron nor bent to him at all in the books. The Gandalf locked in the Tower bit is explained ONLY in the Unfinished Tales Book: In [manuscript-C) The Black Riders arrived at the Gate of Isengard while Gandalf was still a prisoner in the tower. In this account, Saruman, in fear & despair, & perceiving the full horror of service to Mordor, resolved suddenly to yield to Gandalf, & to beg for his pardon & help. Temporizing at the Gate, he admitted that he had Gandalf within, & said that he would go & try to discover what he knew; if that were unavailing, he would deliver Gandalf up to them. Then Saruman hastened to the summit of Orthanc - & found Gandalf gone. Away south against the setting moon he saw a great Eagle flying towards Edoras. See, the thing is he was always master of studying the enemy & even being able to think like they do to always know exactly the best ways to handle ever situation and so on, but the thing is he didn't just become the enemy, he at this time in a sense for once actually grew afraid of him, probably Sauron did what Sauron did with Finrod Felagund in the duel of visions, (Galadriel’s elder brother who by the way was the most important in the Legendarium & is the main reason the third age even exists) which basically widdled Saruman with various visions of the past and future until it wore him down, but Saruman(Curumo) was the mostly already becoming weary due to what was called The Long Defeat, magic bleeding out from the lands of middle earth and subsequently certain things become less and less possible and the elves begin to go west. Even the ones who never wished to leave middle earth and many of which were born here by the thousands. So him also being a student and helper of Aulë of the Valar he was going to fight fire with fire and make a bid for the ring just so Sauron could never regain full power and if Saruman found a way to release himself from his power restrictions even by any small margin or worked with Eru in some way it might have worked out in the end if things went differently enough to where such action from him would be needed. Ontop of that he was growing ever jealous of Gandalf for he received the Varya from Círdan and prior to that was chosen by the other Valar, Nienna’s chosen champion to go to middle earth. But Gandalf(Olórin back then) refused over and over and exclaimed his fear of Sauron(Mairon), varya I feel would have kindle the heart of Saruman to stay strong as he had been fighting the evils of the world for a very long time since he had been sent to Middle Earth. And for the is reason Saruman wished to hold the ring at hostage. Keep Sauron from taking back his full strength and basically use it to stave off The Long Defeat. Saruman is very complex. The Hobbit movies actually shows how he was even 60 years ago during Bilbo’s story. He was one of the main forces thwarting Sauron for over 2000 years. The Númenoreans: the high men of the west; gifted Saruman with Orthanc which was of their making. Now known as Isengard. [[Correction given to me recently to which I’ll need to double check for myself regardless: The Númenoreans didn't give Isengard to Saruman, after Helm Hammerhand died, Saruman returned from his journeys in the far east, and sort of "occupied it by friendly force", Fréaláf (the new King of Rohan) told Saruman to contact Beren (Gondor's Steward), which gladly gave Orthanc's key to the wizard (grave mistake). ]] - Saruman is actually trying to doublecross sauron and wanted Gandalf to simply help him subdue toe rings evil so they could use it to defeat Sauron together as a single duo-unit. He wants the ring for himself for what was still a noble reason. He thinks he can control it. The little orcs around saruman are from mordor - sauron's orcs sent to help saruman but also to spy on him. The big fighting orcs - the uruk hai - are loyal only to Saruman. Orcs are like that. But it’s why Saruman’s orders are a bit vague - to avoid sauron's orcs knowing what Saruman is doing. The movies dont make this bit of the story very clear. But notice that, while Saruman knows where the fellowship is he never lets Sauron Know.

[@veritanuda]

FWIW Christopher Lee, gained stature because of his roles playing monsters that were human. Lord Summer Isle comes to mind. But he was also a very good hero as well in Dennis Wheatley's The Devil Rides Out. He also did a very good job in the Avengers as well. All in all, I am not sure who else could have played Saruman, and I am glad he did.

[@gurmsekhon4185]

Peter Howell's portrayed of Saruman in the 1981 BBC Radio adaptation of The Lord of the Rings was sublime. Tolkien makes clear in the LOTR text, as well as in Letters, that it was the Voice of Saruman that was the White Wizard's greatest power. Saruman the White's power of persuasion was practically irresistible. This power appeared to wane after he began styling himself as Saruman of Many Colours, but was still quite persuasive right up until the moment Gandalf the White broke Saruman's staff and cast him from the Order. Peter Howell did a wonderful job of switching back and forth between a melliferous tone of voice for when Saruman was attempting to persuade the victors of the Battle of the Hornburg, one by one, that he was their friend and a gratingly harsh tone when he burst out in anger and frustration. It was so well done. The 1981 BBC Radio adaptation is highly recommended.

[@williamjubi]

"These clothes are a menace." - Sir Christopher Lee from The Fellowship blooper reel.

[@mojosbigsticks]

I met Christopher Lee once, and he filled the room in a way I can't explain. Suddenly everything was tiny and insignificant compared to him - I couldn't take my eyes off him. His presence was so natural, but so vast; he dominated the space without trying. I was a wreck for the rest of the afternoon.

[@Limubi1]

Beautiful work as ever

[@marshillmike]

Nice discussion, really nice cup.

[@GriefsFacade]

Thanks for uploading Jess. Your video's always help me get ready for bed.

[@nikolibarastov4487]

There is another thing that I know is not in even the directors or extended cut and that is the looting of the Tower of Orthanc because that really would have displayed the inspiration for modern fantasy seeing as this trilogy was published in 1956 in America and pretty much every piece of modern fantasy media has kill the evil wizard loot his tower as a thing. Can we talk about how much of a misstep it was to not open the two towers with a lament for boromir? Seriously the opening scene for The two towers would have been an amazing spot for that because the last scene in The fellowship of the Ring was the breaking of the fellowship. And so is the three hunters lamenting for boromor in song would have been just absolutely gut-wrenching

[@TheWadetube]

Truly you have a singular understanding of Both the Lord of the Rings and Mr. Lee. What I have seen him in seemed respectful as he always played a gentleman of manners and respect even when he was the villain . Check him out in The Man With The Golden Gun, a James Bond Movie. It is Christopher Lee who owns the golden gun. Always a pleasure to see you.

[@303cisco303]

Thank you for expanding my knowledge and making it so entertaining

[@Jess_of_the_Shire]

My pleasure!

[@markcohen7991]

You make wonderful videos. Love you and your videos. Thank you so very much. Live long and prosper 🖖

[@manyifnotmost]

The Voice scene…man, he really is every politician isn’t he. I think Douglas Adams does a similar thing about sophisticated arguments you can’t remember the sense of in the cold light of day.

[@MosBaked]

Great video, this makes me want to read the books more, just to see the the Many coloured version of him at work

[@horsethi3f]

My favourite moment of Christopher Lee's Saruman is during one of the Hobbit movies, he's talking in the background grumbling about how Gandalf was not paying attention.

[@Makkaru112]

Hopefully somewhere in Hunt For Gollum film they can fill in those blanks and that can be where we can see PJs special footage of council of Elrond where we’d get all that fun stuff along with the conversation Frodo had with Gimli’s father and so forth. Maybe even show the real reasons the dwarves were showing up to Rivendell as well.

[@DisFantasy]

One thing I missed from the book that wasn't in the movie was Saruman throwing the seeing-stone out of the tower window. It's easy to imagine why he would do so such a thing, and would have played well off of the earlier line of "Why? Why should we fear it?" from Fellowship.

[@DesmondDentresti]

Truly one of the greatest villains of our time, portrayed by one of the greatest of men. He transcended generation and genre several times over. Sir Christopher Lee had such a history and carried it all so well. A twofold icon and inspiration. I most enjoyed the flash of your vampiric nature as you discussed his incarnation of Dracula. I had suspected as much from the beginning. It was even foreshadowed by the vial around your neck, obviously several souls are blood bound to it.

[@JamesAllen-zt2cu]

Great analysis!

[@tomklock568]

Thank you Jess.

[@EvilOverlord1662]

Christopher Lee was THE voice of Saruman. If he told me do or believe anything I would in a heartbeat with a voice like that!

[@zacharyclark3693]

The vampire teeth were a nice touch. Your costumes are always amazing.

[@Trylen]

Ok, I had to go back to verify I saw what I saw in that smile, nice fangs. As for Christopher Lee, his voice and presence.. There are no mistaking them. He was a great choice for the role, and Jackson did him dirty in Return of the King.