Did Frodo Fail?

Today we discuss the complex morality of the Lord of the Rings, the importance of mercy and the unheroic heroism of Frodo.
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[@MoviesWithDad]

The "failure" of Frodo was success for Tolkien. It makes the story realistic and relatable, unexpected, and complex.

[@OneTrueNobody]

It does help, of course, that we get to see multiple examples of Frodo's courage and heroism within the books, so that we get the full layered view of it. It's murkier in the Peter Jackson films. A lot of Frodo's best book moments are tied to events that got trimmed down or cut entirely for the sake of fitting the formulaic considerations of a feature-film, so Frodo ends up feeling a bit more like a passenger than a participant there. But I've noticed, in the modern fandom, that character portrayals in the films hold a lot of sway over the collective consciousness. Even in fanfiction, for example, authors who have clearly read the books and are drawing elements from them seem to treat film characterization as the default over the books. Frodo is not the only character who gets somewhat undersold in the fandom because of that.

[@crtune]

Well put and very succinct. I'd only add that this assessment still is true no matter how deeply one delves into LOTR lore. And the book has wonderful sections such as Jess pointed to, which show very crucial and unusual ideas about how this all came out.

[@donwalker8292]

In my opinion, Frodo did fail because he succumbed to the lure of the ring. But it wasn’t random. Not too much earlier, Frodo, through the bring, or the ring, through Frodo, declared to Gollum “Begone! If you touch me again, you shall yourself be cast into the fires of doom” or something close to that. The last failure was that of Gollum, when he bit the ring off of Frodo’s hand. But that too was foreordained.

[@jimluebke3869]

@@OneTrueNobody It's a pity they have to cut the Barrow-Downs. You miss Frodo shining brightest in the darkness there. “There is a seed of courage hidden (often deeply, it is true) in the heart of the fattest and most timid hobbit, waiting for some final and desperate danger to make it grow. Frodo was neither very fat nor very timid; indeed, though he did not know it, Bilbo (and Gandalf) had thought him the best hobbit in the Shire. He thought he had come to the end of his adventure, and a terrible end, but the thought hardened him.”

[@JeanMacgregor-ln6lr]

@@MoviesWithDad This is very true - and ties in with the post author's evaluation I'd say. Tolkien even tackled Post Traumatic Stress Disorder with Frodo's inability to fit back home - such an important part of the experience of war. Vastly more mature than the curt "happily ever after" trope.

[@pendragon2012]

Frodo is actually one of my favorite characters in all of literature. He sacrificed his moral, mental, physical and spiritual well-being to save everyone. Thanks for not forgetting as so many do--the only reason Gollum was there to "save the day" was because Frodo had spared him at the beginning. Sam wanted to kill him. Great video as always, Jess! :-)

[@TransRoofKorean]

That great, unforgettable Moria conversation with Gandalf... a big part of it boils down to "it's a dirty job, but somebody's gotta do it". And you don't necessarily know it's you, but you think it might be. It's gotta be someone, someone's gotta bear that burden, so you choose to pick it up yourself. Tolkien would think God preordained it, and even as you're climbing Mount Doom Frodo and Sam would think it's them, but interestingly enough, it isn't. It was Gollum all along! ^_^

[@mastathrash5609]

Exactly, dude went through the real world equivalent of being given hard drugs, getting addicted to said drugs while traveling through trials and tribulations on top of that, to destroy said drugs in the heart of the drug den as it consumes him....😅 With his sober friend and an addict whom the drug has already destroyed (Smeagol). But without Sam... Sam really is a true bro. I don't know if Frodo would have made it to mount doom without Sam.

[@Ringslover]

What was the 1930s equivalent of oxycodone? People in emergency rooms who were prescribed oxycodone and didn't have a choice. They were given the drug. However, most drug users choose to be part of that culture and to take the drugs of their own free will.

[@pendragon2012]

@@Ringslover I think the drugs analogy is kind of weak and takes us far afield. The Ring represents Power and Power corrupts. It corrupted Frodo.

[@crtune]

@@Ringslover Back then, the main analgesic (pain killer) was morphene. By then it was very well understood it was highly addictive, and thus patients were monitored and pushed to withdraw use of the painkiller as soon as possible.

[@bjiornbjiorn]

Getting in early. Technically, all he agreed to do at the Council of Elrond was to "take the Ring to Mordor". Now that job he did flawlessly 😂

[@BananaWasTaken]

Technically he failed that too. Sam was the one who took the ring into Mordor. (Although you could argue that taking it to the boundary of Mordor counts as taking it to Mordor)

[@Jess_of_the_Shire]

That's a good point!

[@_daboi]

He obeyed the letter of the agreement, if not the spirit. XD

[@satana8157]

@@BananaWasTaken Sam was in his crew. So it counts.

[@somedandy7694]

In the movie, yes. In the book he is charged explicitly with taking the Ring to the Cracks of Doom, never to lay it aside nor give it to anyone else, save in great need.

[@Phantasia_Workshop]

According to Tolkien: only Sam could get Frodo to Mount Doom, only Frodo could get the Ring to Mount Doom, and only Gollum could get the Ring away from Frodo. It was then that Eru reached down and gently nudged Gollum (and the Ring) off the ledge

[@peterk2735]

I used to think that, but these days, I don’t see Eru “nudging” Gollum. What Eru did was subtly influence the events that led Frodo, Sam and Gollum to Mount Doom, after that it was their personalities that determined what happened. The only time I think he intervened in the Third Age was when he brought Gandalf back. Gandalf himself says that a higher power than the Valar brought him back at the darkest time.

[@Phantasia_Workshop]

@@peterk2735 True, but Tolkien himself stated in one of his letters that it was Eru

[@peterk2735]

@@Phantasia_Workshop I think I know which letter you mean, the one where he says “Another Power” took over. But again, it took over because all the pieces were in place. Last time Eru intervened directly he sank Numenor, destroyed Sauron and pulled Valinor out of the physical realm. Clearly, if he wanted to banish Sauron, he could do it effortlessly. So I think this time around, he manipulated events so that the fate of the Ring was not preordained, but that Frodo and Gollum would be there at the precipice and the “nudge” was simply guiding them to a place where they could exercise their free will, granted the Ring overpowered them, but it also self-destructed. If Eru wasn’t a thing, this “other power” would simply be called destiny. PS. My 2 cents, I totally understand your POV and accept it’s probably correct 😄

[@satana8157]

It's a huge misconception that I've seen people thing Eru shoved Gollum down. When Tolkien says Eru intervened he means that he set some paths that lead to that moment. The reason Gollum fell is actually quite simple. Frodo made Gollum swear on the ring that he doesn't hurt him. Later on mount doom when Gollum attacks him, Frodo threatens him that if you touch me again I'll make you throw yourself down. Which is what happens. Gollum bits his finger off, and the rings carries out Frodo's "curse" so to speak. Basically, ring destroys itself, because of the oath, and will of Frodo.

[@portlandtwowheels1872]

@@satana8157 Yeah, I've read and heard all that as well. Then...at the end of the day...I remember it's just a story. Either way (or many ways) it's an amazing story regardless of the author's answer

[@mistermysh1660]

Even though he failed to cast the ring into the fire himself, he nonetheless succeeded by cursing Gollum to the fire if he should ever try to take it again, thus accomplishing his goal in a roundabout way as Gollum then plunged into the Cracks of Doom after reclaiming it.

[@pastel.persephone5879]

Whoa I never noticed that parallel before!

[@Jess_of_the_Shire]

That's an excellent catch

[@stephicath]

I was going to comment on that often overlooked scene: "If you touch me ever again you shall yourself be thrown in the crack of doom". The Ring trapped itself.

[@Ringslover]

stephi, I suppose someday someone will write a concordance to go along with the text of Rings and then we can look up the quote we desire. I believe that more than once various characters noted that oft evil is done in by evil

[@TheFatesLieutenant]

I agree 100% - Frodo (and the members of the Fellowship itself) served the purpose(s) set before them - If one believes Frodo was "personally" responsible for the actual, physical destruction of the ring "himself", then, Yes, he failed - though my thoughts align with yours - No, he did not fail in his purpose within the saga - one can't do everything oneself (as Sam said, in a rather different context, "Well, one can't be everywhere at once...") but, as a team, in a sense, one can, and Frodo was integral in getting the Ring to the Cracks of Doom (the main task laid on him by Elrond) and Gollum, fulfilling his desire, finished the destruction.

[@timonikkinen9578]

Frodo carried the weight no one else could. He saw how it corrupted himself, he saw how it corrupted the ring wraiths and he saw how it started to corrupt members of the council. He knew the weight of it and because he did not wish it on anyone else, he chose to carry the ring. He chose to sacrifice himself for others, all the way back in Rivendell.

[@DamonNomad82]

One theory a former girlfriend and I, both lifelong Tolkien fans, discussed was that Frodo's breaking point from the temptation of the Ring and the physical toll of the long, difficult and dangerous journey, actually happened slightly before the point that he stood at Sammath Naur and had only to open his hand and let the Ring drop to succeed in his quest; a seemingly very simple but actually impossible task. Instead, according to the theory, Frodo's breaking point came at the moment he first used the Ring for his own purposes and invoked its power and doom (not to be confused with merely putting the Ring on in desperate circumstances such as escaping from Boromir, for example). This happened when Gollum attacked Frodo and Sam on the path to Sammath Naur. Frodo, understandably infuriated and driven past endurance by the unexpected additional hardship and danger of Gollum's sudden attack, took up the power of the Ring to place a geis on Gollum: "If you ever touch me again, you shall yourself be cast into the fires of doom!" Sam witnessed the manifestation of power in Frodo when he made this pronouncement, and Frodo's words ultimately came true. Gollum attacked Frodo again shortly afterward and came under the curse Frodo had put on him.

[@GreyPilgrim_Mithrandir]

Frodo did fail, yes. As anybody else would have failed. The ring was more powerful than he was and it would not allow itself to be destroyed. The only thing more powerful than the ring was Eru and he succeeded in destroying the ring, seemingly by chance but ultimately by his will. However, Frodo was the perfect and ultimate ring-bearer, humble enough and strong willed enough to carry it. Frodo offered it willingly to both Gandalf and Galadriel - who both refused the offer and succeeded in overcoming their own tests by doing so. Frodo also refused to turn it over to Boromir, Faramir, Sam and Smeagol demonstrating the wisdom and strength required in his task. Ultimately Frodo is the hero, and worthy of our admiration and praise, but he definitely failed in this mission. Another great video, Jess. Thank you so much.

[@kryptonianguest1903]

The ring was also destroyed by its own evil. The harm it did to Gollum created the situation that Eru used to destroy it.

[@bigcat4117]

The ring is addictive as crack to a drug addict

[@earlofdoncaster5018]

Correct me if I am wrong here: One of the powers of the Ring is that it is impossible for the bearer to intentionally destroy it, with the exceptions of the Valar and Bombadil. Therefore Frodo's task was flat out impossible. I assume the Council of Elrond did not know this because sending the Ring to Mordor was just handing it over to Sauron.

[@earlofdoncaster5018]

@@kryptonianguest1903 As far as I know the only intervention if Eru in LotR is the resurrection of Gandalf.

[@kryptonianguest1903]

@@earlofdoncaster5018 In one of his letters, Tolkien mentioned that Eru nudged Gollum off the ledge to punish him for breaking his oath.

[@karlarden6260]

I think he did exactly what Eru decreed, “nor can any alter the music in my despite for he that attempteth shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful which he himself hath not imagined.” But this topic is great 👍

[@Jess_of_the_Shire]

Perfect quote for this conversation!

[@beatleblev]

This quote is, for me, the core of the Legendarium that everything else revolves around. There are those who believe Eru and stay in harmony with the Music, acting as sub-creators of wonder, and then there are those who have been convinced by their own hubris that no one can improve on their art, and those who willfully misinterpret Eru's statement of fact as a challenge.

[@Ringslover]

Karla, it has been a while since I last read the silmarillion. Please tell me if there was one exception to the song of creation and it's inability to be changed by the creatures of Arda. I seem to recall that ppl could add to or take from the Song . Am I correct in this memory?

[@goingnowherefast217]

@@Ringslover Look up Jess's video on Tolkien's Magical Music from 2 years ago. She talks about the music of creation and how Morgoth tried to ruin it (without ultimate success, however).

[@abrahamedelstein4806]

That's a thing that never sat right with me in the film, the Ring was Gollum's to destroy, it was like the whole point, the reason why Bilbo and Frodo spared him. And the poetic justice that the Ring should be destroyed, albeit unintentionally by its most tormented victim.

[@jimstock2054]

As I have been reading lotr over and over for 45 years. It has been good to see how I see Frodo differently over the years and how his sacrifice seems all the greater as a 55 year old than reading it as a 10 year old.

[@EuTrabalhoParaSagres510]

Also, Gollum swore by the ring, on pain of death to serve frodo in destruction of the Ring. I think this should be mentioned as it definitely plaid a part in his final plunge👌

[@charlesfinnigan3904]

yeah and that put a power in play that might not have been there otherwise!

[@philkugler2429]

Also, Frodo basically cursed Gollum on Mount Doom. "If you touch me again, you yourself shall be cast into the fires" or something like that.

[@hariman7727]

@@philkugler2429 I don't think that was Frodo, or it wasn't ONLY Frodo who put that curse on Gollum: I believe that the One Ring spoke through Frodo to put that curse on Gollum, causing Evil's own selfishness and pride to undo itself in the end in spite of being able to dominate Frodo.

[@dennisweber2886]

I always thought that the Ring destroyed itself by keeping Gollum to his pledge to serve the master of the Ring. Frodo declared himself master, Gollum bit him, and the ring betrayed him to his doom. Evil oft mars evil. Crazy amounts of foreshadowing throughout that book.

[@edithengel2284]

I love that book, but the foreboding is laid on a little thickly.

[@davidsachs4883]

A hero who never wavers is less interesting than one who wavers. Red badge of courage is a great story because our protagonist flees in fear, but later faces his fear successfully.

[@MemineAussi]

Frodo didn't fail in his task. He was meant to get the Ring to the Crack of Doom. Sam was meant to get Frodo to the Crack of Doom. And Gollum was meant to put the Ring into the Crack of Doom. All 3 did their part in destroying the Ring.

[@hendilman]

Frodo had succeeded as a friend and a hero when he stood up at the Council of Elrond and volunteered to carry the Ring to Mordor, knowing it's effects firsthand. After hearing from Elrond and Gandalf about the nature of the Ring, nobody was volunteering. The plan then was for all 9 to help Frodo get to Mordor, Boromir only broke when the Company had reached the crossroads where it was either Mordor or Gondor.

[@30110CKs]

Boromir always intended to return to Minas Tirith, the only question was would he go alone.

[@californiumblog]

There is nothing more noble than doing a great deed despite the risk, nay certainty, of failure.

[@Simone-bc2fo]

I really can't stand readers who underplay Frodo. He is a tortured soul. He succeeds where others would fail simply because of his selflessness and understated bravery. Not all heroes are machos swinging swords.

[@Jess_of_the_Shire]

I get it. He's a complicated hero to handle, but I think he grows on a lot of people over time.

[@Simone-bc2fo]

@Jess_of_the_Shire i think for some people a fragile hero is precisely the perfect hero to cheer for and identify with. The Lord of the Rings would be a much flatter and less interesting story with a more conventional, warrior-type protagonist at the forefront.

[@sebastianevangelista4921]

@@Jess_of_the_Shire I can't help but think of the tips that Hello Future Me made on writing Paragon Heroes (let me know if they don't hold up to scrutiny): 1. Paragons might be right, likable, and get things done, but these characters tend to work better when it’s difficult or costly to keep choosing good. It can create obstacles, damage relationships, and create dilemmas. 2. It’s important to explore how paragons feel even if they don’t struggle over what’s right or wrong. Alternatively, they might evolve and change in ways which don’t affect their core values and beliefs. 3. Being a paragon does not mean they can’t be reckless, stupid, or blind to how others view things. It might mean others sacrifice their lives for them or they miss more subtle evils. They may be wrong entirely. 4. Paragons change characters around them. They can often see through a ‘Lie’ others believe about themselves or the world, urge them in the right direction, or warn them of the path they’re going down. 5. The paragon’s death can be symbolically and narratively instrumental. It leaves the surrounding characters to either take up after them or find a new way forward. 6. Reactive scenes with paragons will often focus more on their reaction, while the dilemma and decision beats focus more on the characters around them. 7. It can be interesting to place the paragon in a position where there is either no obvious good option or where all options are bad.

[@JohnnyWednesday]

Like a child growing up without Spongebob.

[@supermanprime6758]

Frodo got the ring to where it needed to be when Eru stepped in and gave a tiny shove.

[@seed_drill7135]

I still think it would have been more satisfactory and less Deus et Machina, to have Sam bean Gollum with a 🪨, knocking him off the ledge.

[@DisorderedArray]

Frodo did also spare Gollum. Mercy was rewarded.

[@crtune]

I'm thinking that Tolkien would have said something not unlike this. The quote seems to say regular living beings always can be defeated by consummate evil (all are sinners?). He does not say the fight against evil is futile, instead his great trilogy appears to be all about a great fight against evil. It's such a rich tale that we also get view of how ring bearers become enslaved to the thing. We also see the great nobility of the several (Gandalf, Galadriel, Aragorn, Faramir) who choose to avoid contact with the ring.

[@crtune]

Deus Ex Machina was what the awkward quick solution of an intervention by a higher power was called (common in Greek plays). Here the plot and underlying philosophy are so rich, that this is more like an integral part of "getting it" when you read about Middle Earth, it's nature and characters per the author's philosophy. Frodo wound up being able to be corrupted even though he could resist as well as any, but there is still the same larger world and its workings that were mentioned off and on through the many thousands of pages. "You were meant to have the ring". Sam being caught spying and sent with Frodo, etc. Hitting Gollum with one of those Hobbit "well placed hit with a rock" would likely be a go to approach for modern folk, but entirely repugnant to Tolkien. In fact the entire work would have been written drastically differently by someone who enjoyed that sort of solution.

[@Raggmopp-xl7yf]

Shove? No, no, no - just a wee nudge.

[@micklumsden3956]

Mercy and Pity were not only shown by Frodo in saving Gollum from the archers under the command of Faramir but also in recruiting Sméagol to “team Frodo”. For the first time in centuries someone had treated Sméagol with compassion and pity - even to the extent of trusting him. Sméagol responded very positively to that - “nice master”. Ultimately Gollum could not be redeemed but I have often wondered how the story would have played out if Sam had been able to show Sméagol more compassion.

[@andresrecchia3600]

I'd like to add that Gollum could have been redeemed. He is at the brink of manifesting genuine love for a sleeping Frodo in the Stairs of Cirith Ungol when Sam wakes up and accuses him of sneaking, and calls him 'old villain'. Two pages earlier, Sam had wondered if Gollum considered himself a hero or a villain. Gollum obviously reacts negatively and his Stinker side gets to hold the reins until the end of the story. Some might have picked up on something: this is the scene in which Frodo tells Sam to "go away" in the movie. Sam pushing Gollum to villainy as the build-up of his climactic understanding for Gollum and display of Pity were made into Gollum successfully manipulating Frodo and pitting him against Sam. I love the movies but I don't really think that they're faithful. In the book, Sam is regretful of his harsh words immediately, of course. Yet he tries to kill Gollum in their face-off in Shelob's cave (and hey, I get him), while the demon-spider deals with Frodo. All of this is the beautiful build-up to him finally understanding and sparing the creature in Mount Doom.

[@12classics39]

It’s clear that Sméagol/Gollum’s mindset, be it through Ring-mental-illness or it being his true (even pre-Ring) nature, is that “they’re mean to me, I’m mean to them; they’re nice to me, I’m nice to them.” However you treat Sméagol/Gollum, you’ll get the same treatment in return. That’s why he’s nasty to Sam and gentler with Frodo.

[@ariwl1]

It's funny as the stated quest of the ring-bearer seems pretty straightforward: take the ring to a specifically dangerous place and throw it into the fire where it will be unmade. But the better your understanding of the ring the more you realize what an utterly doomed quest it always was. Yes, per Tolkien, Frodo did fail to destroy the ring himself, but the nature of the ring was such that neither he nor anyone else could have ever succeeded in the first place. There might have been other people in Middle Earth who could have taken the ring as far as Frodo, but there are none who could have taken that one more step and deliberately thrown it away. The ring's will was always to return to Sauron, and nothing could intentionally override that as (nearly) all creatures of Middle Earth were fated to succumb to its vile whispers eventually. So we can't blame Frodo for failing in the end because he had effectively lost what little control he had. So in the end when Gollum breaks his oath that he made on the ring to Frodo it creates the opportunity for it be destroyed, because in a world like Middle Earth where words truly have power, broken promises demand recompense. So in the end perhaps the only greater will than that of the ring was of the very world itself.

[@Jess_of_the_Shire]

I do love how simply the idea is presented at first. I think it's part of Tolkien's larger efforts to reinvigorate older myths--to show how it would realistically work to try and destroy evil

[@ariwl1]

@@Jess_of_the_Shire It's practically presented like a side quest in a modern video game. At face value there's really nothing complex about the quest, but there's an enormous catch that no one truly understands until right up until the end.

[@EnzoVinZ]

Heroism is when someone sacrifice themselves to save others. Frodo knew he will fail the moment he saw Gollum -- he's looking at what he would become. His failure was not a surprise since it was foreshadowed. He failed the moment Shelob got him -- without Sam, it's game over.

[@akechijubeimitsuhide]

What I love about LotR is how defeating Sauron is a group effort, not just with Frodo, Sam and Gollum, but all the others working together despite earlier conflicts, mistrust or sabotage attempts from Saron, Saruman and their goons. And the characters forge lifelong bonds.

[@adamstevens5518]

“Fail” can be used in two senses, either general/ overall, or specific. In the specific sense, Frodo could only fail at something he himself either said he would do, or was trying to do. We assume that he was trying to destroy the ring, as that was the overall mission, but what he said was that he would take the ring to Mordor. Did Frodo ever have the thought that he himself would throw the ring into the fire? Does it matter? Is failure dependent on the pov? Ultimately it’s the questions themselves that are the interesting thing.

[@TheFatesLieutenant]

Yep!

[@jamespfp]

I like how Frodo is aware of things because of his lucky adoption by Bilbo. It was Bilbo, after all (and as Gandalf points out) who had showed pity to Gollum, and that makes all interactions between Frodo and Gollum later on derivative. If Frodo and Gollum are powerless to resist their desire to possess (and be possessed by) the Ring then at least there are two of them at the end to neatly counterbalance.

[@tahirravat131]

Beautifully dissected. You really made me realize that he did fail, that it was inevitable, I never thought about the ending so deeply. It makes me imagine the conversations frodo might have had with Gandalf as they go to the Gray Havens, imagine if he apologized to Gandalf that he failed at what he set out to do. The things Gandalf would say... My favorite moment that defines Frodo is at Rivendell during the formation of the fellowship we see everybody arguing over who should take the ring. Moments before Frodo is telling Sam it's time to go home, we did what we set out to do! But they're all arguing and he says "I will take the Ring".. and you see Gandalfs face sink into sadness as he turns to face Frodo, he knows he could never ask Frodo to do anymore than he's already done, but also that he's the only one capable of doing it. Its this epic yet sad moment where you feel almost ashamed that the heroes are incapable of the most important task in the world, we have to completely rely on the bravery of the weak. Such an unfair task to ask anyone to do, yet he volunteers himself. Gah makes me emotional everytime I see it

[@Proclifo]

There is a seed of courage hidden (often deeply, it is true) in the heart of the fattest and most timid hobbit, waiting for some final and desperate danger to make it grow. Frodo was neither very fat nor very timid; indeed, though he did not know it, Bilbo (and Gandalf) had thought him the best hobbit in the Shire.

[@toncek9981]

Frodo was a hero, whether Tolkien intended it or not. Free people of Middle Earth never doubt this and neither do I. Sure, his deeds were not flashy cavalry charge nor the last stand against the armies of Sauron, but his quest into Mordor with the One ring on his neck was no doubt the bravest thing anyone ever does in the story.

[@MrARock001]

It's interesting to consider that perhaps to Gandalf, and maybe Galadriel and Elrond and a few others with foresight, it was expected that Frodo would fail to resist the Ring's power in the end. Their hope was that he would get far enough, close enough, that when he finally failed, their goal could still be achieved in spite of it. If so, then there's an added level of tragedy to Frodo's appointment as the Ring Bearer, because, unbeknownst to him, his task isn't just to bear the Ring and endure its temptations as long as he can, his task is to endure the failure of his last scraps of strength, and to be "split in two" in a way that none of the wise ones can ever heal. His living with his failure could arguably be a much higher cost than his time actually bearing the Ring.

[@croydthoth]

As far as Gandalf is concerned, I don't think there's any "perhaps" about it: Gandalf had already seen that Frodo couldn't throw the Ring into his hearth fire at Bag End. Your analysis of Gandalf's and Elrond's hope is spot on, I would say. Of course it could have worked out a bit better for Frodo: Gollum might have grabbed the Ring *before* Frodo decided to claim it for himself, thus saving him from that failure. But that wouldn't have been as good a story.

[@MrARock001]

One thing I've learned to appreciate only lately about the One Ring, often from analyses like these on KZbin from great close-readers like yourself, is that it has one very interesting flaw, which turns out to be its undoing. It's subtle and there's an almost blink-and-you-miss-it moment where it's on full display, but I think it adds to the "character" of the One Ring as a villain. The flaw is that the Ring *must* enforce oaths sworn on it, either to the best of its ability or else by Eru or some other cosmic contract-enforcement power. When Smeagol swears not to betray Frodo, this takes effect, and Frodo mysteriously seems to understand the power of this oath, warning Smeagol that it's dangerous to make such an oath, and even more dangerous to break it. When Gollum does eventually break the oath and betray Frodo, there's almost a desperation in Frodo to prevent the consequences, as though his latent pathos for Smeagol kicks in and he seems determined to save him. But ultimately, the One Ring keeps its promise of retribution against Smeagol for the breaking of the oath, and Smeagol is killed - even though this means the Ring is destroyed itself. It seems that either the Ring itself, or else Eru / Ea / Tolkien is so insistent that oathbreakers must be punished, that even the Ring's self-preservation takes a back seat.

[@Ringslover]

@MrARock001 I very much like your observation. It does lead me to one question. As the Ring's power comes directly from the Sauron, comes to that, its very existence comes directly from Sauron, does that mean in some way Sauron cannot break an oath? More likely, I suspect, it means the Ring had a mind and personality of its own by the end of the journey into Mordor.

[@andresrecchia3600]

​@@Ringslover No one can break an oath. That's why the Army of the Dead exists. In the book, they're called the Oathbreakers. There are other examples. It isn't that the Ring specifically has a thing with oaths, but that Gollum swore the oath by the Ring (what we understand as "in the name of"), so the Ring's power was what enforced the oath. Gollum swore to serve the master of the precious. As long as Frodo was the Ring-bearer, Gollum would have to obey Frodo's command, by a magical-kind of compelling. In disobedience, great tragedy (suffering or even death) would come upon the oathbreaker. Figure the namesake guys (Army of the Dead), doomed to remain impotent ghosts until their oath was fulfilled.

[@thtadthtshldntbe]

excellent video. On the failure thing. Its quite possible to give it everything you have and still fail. In fact IIRC in one of Tolkien's letters he comments that despite Sam, Frodo and the entire Fellowship, the entire effort to destroy the Ring failing, they had given not only their all but all that was human possible to give. And so because there was nothing humanly possible and because they have given all their efforts to do, that was why essentially a miracle, even if it is in its specificity undetailed occurred and Eru intervened to ensure the destruction of the Ring.

[@paulbarnett5528]

Sauron made it impossible to destroy the Ring. Frodo takes it farther than anyone else could have expected. But in the end, he failed.

[@gptiede]

A hero is someone who does what needs to be done for the needs of others, for the sake of 'goodness', without any expectation of reward and in spite of the likeliness of harm or costs to themselves. By this definition, Frodo is most definitely a hero, as are Sam and the rest of the Fellowship. Further, whether or not Frodo himself succeeded (this video convinced me that technically he did not) his quest succeeded, and in the end this is all that mattered. Jess, thank you once again for a wonderful video. You often make me think deeply.

[@heartscapesreiki1496]

This is my favorite of your videos. Yes to all of this. I've walked this same analysis, in mind and heart, as I've thought of Frodo's story. The exquisiteness of LotR hinges on the facts that you document here. Frodo is the best of us, in large part because it is not his indivudual heroism that saves the day. It is the fact that he said yes, the sum of his choices, and the richness of the tapestry of souls he is in community with, that brings us resolution. This, more than anything else, to me is what makes this story so important, so lasting, and so relevant to our time.

[@rayquinn1974]

Hiya, Jess. I love what you do, so thank you for all the unseen/unsung work that goes into just getting one of these videos out. Peace!

[@Jess_of_the_Shire]

Thank you so much!

[@leftcoaster67]

He failed, but the odds were against him against the corruption of the one ring. In the end Gollum and Frodo were tied to the ring. Gollum's triumph was also Middle Earth's. Frodo was damaged by the Ringwraith which he never fully recovered. And lost a finger out of it. But was broken. Not a hero in the traditional sense. But someone who sacrifices everything for the greater good is just as brave, and just as heroic even in failure.

[@StephenDukenski]

“Evil doesn’t have to pick and choose.” Well said! Tolkien has taught me so much about morality. Evil doesn’t have the same constraints as good. It doesn’t have the same obligations. But, thank Eru, evil is myopic. Unconstrained but myopic-a lidless eye.

[@williampalmer8052]

Great video, as always. Can't wait to give it a thorough watch when I have the time! Ok, now... There's a reason Frodo is called the Ring Bearer, not the Ring Destroyer. It was never in his power to destroy the ring, and I strongly suspect that even Gandalf knew as much. All he could do was bring it to Mt Doom, and no more could be asked of him. And even that was almost too much. To say Frodo failed is to misunderstand his true role in the story, which is why I imagine Tolkien put the word in quotes. Frodo had no other option but to "fail." To Tolkien, Frodo is like us. We all undertake an arduous journey, confident that we can conquer the ills of the world, and avoid the temptations of evil along the way. But in the end, we all fall short, and only God's grace saves us, if we remain faithful to our cause. Gandalf had no other choice but to trust that Iluvatar would somehow deliver the world from Sauron's evil, as Tolkien trusted God to do the same for this world. For it is beyond the power of any creature to accomplish this.

[@Bi-PolarBurnout]

Who wants to hear Jess just read us the book already? The best parts of this upload were her direct quotes of the book, I could listen to you all day jess.

[@jjsnedgehammer]

I think your take on this is pretty spot on. When I first read the Lord Of The Rings, back in the mid 80’s, my take was similar and I had a more favorable view of Gollum’s redemption than most, I think. I felt like at least some small part of him knew he was doing right by taking the ring into the Crack of Doom, almost purposefully as he tumbled in. I’m the sort of writer that believes much of the written word is up for interpretation by the reader. In fact, I always enjoyed hearing what other people thought of my stuff, especially when their thoughts made me want to laugh (not disrespectfully). Perhaps I’m influenced by my upbringing but I do believe the universe ultimately bends toward that which supports life.

[@ShamanJeeves]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who views Smeagol's demise as the end of a redemption arc of sorts. Less explicit than Lobelia's, but no less there. We must remember that he was a being of two natures, and there was a longstanding war between the two that had only recently been rekindled. I believe his good side desired the peace of the grave, while his dark side desired only the Ring, and that as he entered the fire his good side was happier than his dark side had been at the recovery of the Ring.

[@ronaldmccomb8301]

Great analysis of Frodo’s complex story. So many layers in such a great figure. Great video as always, Miss Jess.

[@BlameThande]

This is one of the things I feel the Jackson films did get significantly wrong - Gollum should have gone over the edge on his own, by accident, to better link with the point that if Bilbo had not spared his life all those years ago, the world would be doomed because no-one (except Tom Bombadil) can resist the Ring to the end.

[@RoseBaggins]

I understood it as that Frodo was fighting him to get the Ring back. Then, they both fell off accidentally but while Frodo realized the danger and grabbed hold of the ledge, Gollum's focus was the Ring.

[@Sindrijo]

@@RoseBaggins That's how I see it, instead of the ring being destroyed by the hubris of joy it is destroyed by the evil of itself as it affects those whom have worn it.

[@davidsalts]

I like your explanation. I once spoke to a Second World War hero who, after the war, was head of a training department. He said it like this. When he trained the soldiers he tried to prepare them for the hell he had been through. This seemed to work well until he realized that the war had destroyed his own psyche, and now he was inflicting the same damage on the soldiers as he had himself. He realized that it was better, in fact, that the soldier only gets training in the technical skills, but that they can live their lives blissfully ignorant of the dark sides of war as long as there is peace, and then we can only hope they rise to the role if a new war starts in the future. And then he quit as a training officer.

[@cpmf2112]

In the end maybe Eru took pity on Smeagol and let his life finally be over.

[@jamessalter6592]

it is wonderful to see the clear passion you have for this material in your facial expressions when telling the story, you clearly love this story. Amazing work.

[@mehill00]

Jess, this was another great video. I especially enjoyed your readings, which seemed more “acted out” (rather than merely read) than usual. Well done and thank you! I’ve been a fan of Tolkien since grammar school is the 70s and you continue to help deepen my appreciation for this beautiful world. So, thanks!!

[@timwy]

Simply excellent ... As always !! The pinnacle of analysis relayed in the most engaging of ways. 🙂

[@user-lt2ws5qn9h]

I love the way you read the dialogues from those passages in the books. It contrasts your normal tone sharply, but it's very entertaining, and communicates well the emotion and emphasis of the characters words. Thank you for making such great videos. I enjoy these greatly. Have a lovely day!

[@leonwilkinson8124]

Very insightful. Great video as always, Jess. Thank you.

[@stefanomagaddino6868]

Thanks, Jess. I could listen to you all day !

[@LeoAngora]

Your theater background makes your book fragment readings a total delight. How amazing! Have you considered being the voice of a Tolkien's audiobook?

[@anonymouscrow5849]

You've got a good voice for reading and presentation! I like your deep dives and analysis as well.

[@austinsalmons3187]

Your video was beautifully written. Thank you for sharing.

[@27jayway-yc9nl]

This was such a lovely video, thank you for making it. I think you really grock tolkiens stories in a way most dont.

[@flight007keith2]

Powerful! Well done! I am going to watch it again because I have so many thoughts.

[@tonypickles2389]

Thank you, Jess. As always much food for thought, even for one who has been reading Tolkein for 55 years.

[@miramavensub]

Your new camera/lighting setup is producing a gorgeous image 😊

[@djparn007]

Really great analysis and presentation. Thank you, Jess. ❤❤

[@KidIndigo1]

Wonderful commentary. Thank you again, Jess of the Shire! You're a class act.

[@tomklock568]

Thanks Jess. Great analysis of this character, and of the "foil" Gollum. Those of us who want to live an exemplary life can learn much from his weakness and strength that came from outside his humble life to see it through to the end, although imperfectly. I appreciate your videos, and your discussions remind me of someone I once knew back in my college days as we both were taking English literature classes together. She took the higher road and majored in that , me I was too practical and settled for something that I thought could get me a job better 😀. Thanks again!

[@thesmiffers]

Extremely well thought out, and brilliantly explained!

[@TheMarketplaceofideas1979]

Another great topic to debate.Good work👍🏿👍🏿

[@Peugeot-uq9vy]

I have only just discovered your channel. Thanks for such an interesting take on "fire side" conversations about Tolkien's works (and some other stuff). You have convinced me to pull out LotR and re-read the tome. Which as the years roll on is becoming more bitter-sweet to read as it reminds me of being on set for FotR (as a Hobbit & Frodo stand-in), and I miss those summer days with my fellow hobbits in the Shire...

[@revrobholley]

I love your channel. You are beautiful and your passion for your craft is evident!

[@patrickselden5747]

A fascinating and thought-provoking essay, Jess - thanks. ☝️😎

[@alecj3454]

Your videos are always thought provoking -- As a casual fan of Tolkien, ive never considered these ideas, and they are enriching. Thank you Jess!

[@barbaramoran7356]

I'm 63. l love your insight and commentary. I grew up with the help of the great generation... Your insight describes these great people to a tee. I'm glad you shire folk get it. There is still hope for a good and happy future in this world. Blessed be you.

[@swiftee543]

Another great video, keep it up Jess!

[@ztmsirhc9353]

I was told that the ring represented addiction and the problems that come with it, maybe because of my own battles with addiction it resonated with me

[@Oakleaf012]

This is such a wonderful and compassionate reading and I agree completely. Genuinely brought a tear to my eye ❤

[@johnmeyer2072]

Very well done and thoroughly thoughtful presentation. Many of your videos bring me to tears and this one did so unexpectedly. It touched emotional cords. I really wanted to share this on Face Book because it seems especially timely after the last presidential debate debacle. I was thinking very catastrophically after the election before last, but we're still here with our democracy more or less intact (or not much worse than usual), but this next time will be more different for other reasons I won't get into here. Darkness encroaches subtly and incrementally, in human history and in the history of Middle Earth, and I believe is addressed similarly. My thinking toward this has changed since then and has been informed a lot by Tolkien and commentators on him like you. And this piece helps immensely in ways I won't get into in a Comment that is already too long. Thanks and bless you. Contributing to your Patreon has been long overdue.

[@lucajohnson8318]

I think this is your very best video! Utterly brilliant and so thoughtful provoking. For Frodo.

[@tscarb]

I appreciate you… Very excellent storytelling… Very insightful… Easily listened to and appreciate it

[@DerekJones1081962]

Yes, I believe that you did a fantastic job of fleshing out this back story!

[@russelldouglas8746]

This was fantastic. Excellent analysis

[@mitjadastis711]

Your final breakdown of what makes us human made me teary eyed while smiling very brightly, wich is both funny and beautiful to think about when the context is Tolkins works. Thank you for this ❤️

[@chadreese9501]

Really love these insights!

[@RIPJimmyA7X]

Did he fail? Yes, as would anyone would've. Thats the whole point, it was an impossible task that he stepped up to and never fell to temptation the entire journey. Thats why Eru stepped in and made Gollum trip

[@The50FirstState]

An excellent video Jess! Frodo's wording seems to take inspiration from the very wording of the mystery of iniquity expressed by St Paul. Frodo: "I have come" he said. "But I do not choose now to do what I came to do. I will not do this deed. The Ring is mine!" Romans (<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="435">7:15</a>-20) "For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me."

[@Jair2435]

Great video! Gonna check to see if you have one on divine providence

[@MrSmokeey]

It is such a treat to listen to a Tolkien commentator who goes as deep as you do into the meaning behind JRRT's works rather than simply recite lore or hypothesize. I have come to wait for your videos eagerly. Do please keep them coming :)

[@karensmith5580]

That was beautiful. Thank you!

[@AlexMathiesen]

I was showing a friend LOTR because she never saw the movies. After Two Towers, she said, "Frodo is the worst, he's such a wimp." My first thought was, "she's going to hate Frodo at the end of Return when he doesn't immediately destroy the Ring." Can confirm, she did not like him during that part.

[@Jess_of_the_Shire]

He's a tough character to love at first. He's really put through the crucible. But I do think he grows a bit upon contemplation.

[@12classics39]

The key is reminding her that directly destroying the Ring was impossible. It wouldn’t let anyone destroy it. That’s the point of the Mt. Doom scene. The final plot twist is that Frodo never would’ve been able to do it. The way to get the Ring into the destructive fire/lava was NOT by just chucking it in there like a stone. It was not that easy. There had to be a chain reaction from Frodo’s actions and choices up until that moment that made it possible for Gollum to be there to unintentionally make the final, fatal move.

[@maurvir3197]

I hate to say it, but your friend lost the plot. Frodo is a lot of things, but wimp isn't one of them. In terms of strength of character, he is right up there with the perceived "heroes". It's easy to like Sam, but Sam only shouldered a tiny fraction of the burden Frodo did. Frodo, on the other hand, endured nearly to the end and managed to hold onto himself right to the point of standing in the volcano, after going through things that would have left a "wimp" running to safety.

[@RoseBaggins]

Oh, your friend wouldn't like me. I've been a fan of his ever since I first encountered him in the cartoon, and was pleasantly blown away by Elijah Wood's performance (he became my celebrity crush officially after that) as well as the books. I will sing his praises and might compete with Sam only in how loud I am singing, lol. I never saw him as a wimp, though I guess I can understand why someone might see that as Elijah's voice has a younthful tone to it, if you will, so his sorrow comes off as whining. But then, I wonder if those who think Frodo is a whiner has ever met a toddler, because a whiner he is not. But then, that could be because of what I was paying attention to. I believe I have more of a detail-oriented mind, a voracious reader to boot, and noticed the little details that Jackson put into the movies where it concerned Frodo. And I notice more every time I watch it, not just for him, but for the others as well. But then, I am a Catholic, I am used to the type of hero that would have inspired Frodo.

[@GravesRWFiA]

He didn't fail, he carried the ring to Mt Doom, that was what he was called upon to do.

[@stevensperry5587]

Excellent discussion of such an amazing topic. Left on the surface, Frodo and Sam are heroes, but it is the combination of the efforts of all of the characters, that win the day because of the internal and external evil of the ring. I love your deep dive into Frodo’s complex personality and the root causes of his ultimate need to be whole.

[@PhinAI]

Very good evaluation and presentation. My emotions concerning Frodo have been conflicted, and that speaks very well of Tolkien's talent and depth. The movies are frustrating, but the books describe the emotion and internal struggles of Frodo that I don't believe can be truly reflected within the constraints of movie production. So often, I hoped for Frodo not to make certain choices that inevitably hurt him, and yet, it was in those choices that ultimate victory was obtained. It's an amazing testament to the true value of seemingly insignificant and often unnoticed and unrewarded choices to adhere to even small gestures of righteousness. We may not be able to be perfect or consistently good, but we can always make a choice to do good and to do well. Who knows what large victories those small internal successes might eventually yield. It's certainly worth attempting.

[@tomhoornstra1954]

One of the hardest issues and character arcs to navigate. And it definitely sounds like you've read Becca Tarnas' commentary on the matter. Good job!

[@tonysladky8925]

I love your choice of watermark on the Two Towers clip.

[@fredkrissman6527]

Have always grokked Frodo's journey in much the way you discuss here, Jess. However, hadn't understood the dual powers of the ring in quite this way... Your analysis of the ring explains a lot to me! Thanx

[@andresrecchia3600]

Awesome work as always Jess! I'd like to contribute by sharing some things on Gollum's fall. It is not Eru actively pushing Gollum, INTERVENING the story; it's Frodo's (and Sam's) actions that create the conditions for Fate, or Eru's design -the Music of Creation, to unfold. In Mount Doom, Sam (before facing and sparing Gollum himself) has a vision that describes Frodo as "a figure robed in white, but at its breast it held a wheel of fire. Out of the fire there spoke a commanding voice. ‘Begone, and trouble me no more! If you touch me ever again, you shall be cast yourself into the Fire of Doom.’ When Gollum asked to have the Ring for a while to "protect it from Sauron while Master goes into Mordor" (paraphrase), as they hide in sight of the Black Gate, Frodo reprimends and warns him of not overstepping his boundaries: "In the last need, Sméagol, I should put on the Precious; and the Precious mastered you long ago. If I, wearing it, were to command you, you would obey, even if it were to leap from a precipice or to cast yourself into the fire. And such would be my command. So have a care, Sméagol!’ He also reminds Gollum of the oath to convince him to get out of the Forbidden Pool -to save him from death by Faramir's men. Oaths have binding power in Middle-earth (see Fëanor and his sons, or the, ahem- Oathbreakers). Gollum swore an oath by the Ring -which means that the Rings holds the oath. Frodo keenly percieved that the Ring "is more treacherous than you are, and it may twist your words". Gollum swore to serve the master of the precious. Frodo understands Gollum's mind and the power of the oath. Gollum serves his Master by (unwillingly, magically compelled by the oath to "fall into the Fire if he touched Frodo again") completing the quest, which not only redresses Frodo's failure, but also saves his life (for the short while that it's worth, and it IS worth).

[@michaelmoore3291]

I love thinking about Tolkien and LOTR and talking about it. However, right now in life, I don't have any friends who like talking about it as much as I do. lol! So I really appreciate your videos!

[@user-jd1kc9xw1x]

Isn’t it ironic that as a culture, more often than not we turn to fictional characters as examples of virtuous fortitude? While in the “real world”, we’re left wondering “Where have all the good folks gone?”…

[@Laurelin70]

Well... kzbin.info/www/bejne/fJ3adYdqe9mHqpIsi=aG-HRGOl9pNqYX-E

[@StoriesThatSuck-pw1vi]

As usual, I didn't find anything I'd argue with you about. Good analysis and video, as always.

[@jamesnoe7378]

Fantastic show 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉 keep it up

[@scottjackson1420]

Nice to see how much you enjoyed reading the sections of the LOTR book. You took on the personality of the characters when reading their lines. You doing the whole trilogy as a sort of book on tape would be worth listening to.

[@condottierexy]

Excellent analysis. 👍

[@penultimateh766]

He failed, sure. But he failed in the way that Pharoah failed and Judas failed. He was just an instrument of Eru Iluvatar, and his failure was necessary to bring about the greater good.

[@shibasaurus322]

I think I’d rather compare Pharaoh and Judas to Gollum. They actively chose evil, and despite their actions, God or Eru manage to transform their evil and use it to create a good end.

[@penultimateh766]

@@shibasaurus322 ohh good point.

[@jonrolfson1686]

The multi-layered, sometimes self-contradictory natures of Professor Tolkien’s characters have much to do with my frequent return to the story since my first reading of Lord of the Rings in 1965. When I was younger there were sections which I would skip on re-reading, as they seemed to slow the story too much. Some of those slower chapters have become cherished favorites later in life.

[@peterk2735]

My dad, bless his soul, introduced me to the books and the movies when I was like 11-12. He told me that the older I get, the more value and wisdom I would find in them on subsequent re-reads. At 32 years of age, I wish I could tell him how right he was 👍

[@johnssmith4005]

Jess can you pretty please make a short of Frodo's little song about the Old Woods ? Both the song and your voice are so lovely

[@Skip6235]

There’s such incredible foreshadowing both with Gandalf’s speech in Fellowship (which happens so early in the book!) about Gollum, and then in Two Towers when Gollum swears to serve Frodo on the Ring.

[@SuperSuperdude88]

this was a really excellent video