The History Channel Doesn't "Get" Tolkien

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I've seen a lot of really terrible Lord of the Rings Documentaries, but the History Channel (somehow) has managed to make the worst one yet. Wow!
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[@John_NJDM]

History grad student here. The History Channel doesn't "get" history, either, Jess. Don't worry about it. It's a joke in academic history circles.

[@sebastianevangelista4921]

NerdSync has a video called 'The Eternals comics are also bad.' that nicely gets to the roots of why Ancient Aliens is so, so bad if you're at all interested.

[@istoppedcaring6209]

it's a joke to most history buffs, but it does suck in many people with it's name granting it assumed authority and yet i think i remember a time when the history channel actually made history docushows, they were allready all about entertainment and focussed solely on the most popular topics, rome's biggest wars, big west european medieval history (also wars) oh and ww2, ww2 was like half of it eventually that must have not cut it anymore and they decided that there was simply a bigger market for allien conspiracy and reallity tv than historically accurate docu's P.S. I am also a history student, not that it even matters

[@cameronfield4617]

I have 2 history degrees and you don't have to have done history at uni to know that the history channel doesn't understand history... its just a common fact

[@billebrooks]

Instead of watching the history channel, listen to this guy: @Metatron

[@AutodidacticPhd]

I have to agree with the growing consensus... it's an odd take to suggest the History channel would or could get anything right. It went from being a channel mostly devoted to stock footage fueled WWII documentaries twenty years ago to being a wall to wall clickbait fest of things that are almost antithetical to the whole spirit of its namesake. If anything, it feels like the channel has gone beyond being a joke to being an active attempt to ruin the very concept of history at a fundamental level.

[@nubertuberluber]

"But the worst part of the trenches were the Dementors!" -J.K. Tolkien

[@procrastinator99]

Lmao

[@balthazarasquith]

"fly fishing you fool"- J R R Hartley (Brits of a certain age will get that lol)

[@franktaylor7617]

Prison Mike had trouble with the Dementors too.

[@kieranrollinson8750]

DON'T YOU DARE BE DISSING MY ANCIENT ALIENS!!!!!!!!! WE ALL KNOW THE TRUTH!!!!!!! THE PYRAMIDS WERE BUILT BY LIZARD PEOPLE FROM THE ZORGON GALAXY IN THE BETA UNIVERSE 20 TRILLION YEARS IN THE FUTURE AND THEN TELEPORTED TO THE PAST, JUST TO MOCK HUMANS AND TRICK THEM INTO THINKING HUMANS COULD ACTUALLY ACHIEVE SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I WILL NOT BE FOOLED!!!!!!! WHO IS WITH ME????????????? FIGHT BACK AGAINST THE ALIEN MIND CONTROL PROGRAMS!!!!!!! THE CIA, FBI, NSA, FFA, FDA, TSA, BTA, FDP, FDC, AND ALL THE OTHER GOVERNMENT AGENCIES ARE IN ON IT!!!!!!!!!!!!! THEY DO NOT WANT TO LET YOU KNOW THAT THE EARTH IS ACTUALLY FLAT, AND IS INSIDE A GLASS SNOWBALL DOME!!!!!!!!!!!! BE AWARE!!!!!!!!!! BE FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TRUTH SHALL PREVAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D

[@b.r.holmes6365]

The Dementors fought for the Ewoks at the 1944 Siege of Gettysburggrad

[@ricopena2053]

9:24 you’re so right! George RR Martin said it best at his Google talk with Stephen King: “Tolkien’s Middle Earth is a true iceberg. Mine (Westeros) is a block of ice on a barge.” Tolkien created an entire theology, geography, and history. Tolkien is still the world building expert all fantasy and science fiction writers use for inspiration.

[@oneoflokis]

💯👍

[@TesticularDancer]

Which isn’t really a feat since it’s fantasy and you can just make stuff up. I really don’t get why people praise Tolkien for something every toddler does during playtime.

[@ricopena2053]

@@TesticularDancer write your story with some coherent world building homie. If you send a template I’ll help you crowdfund it.

[@TesticularDancer]

@@ricopena2053 So like every other fantasy writer lol

[@ricopena2053]

@@TesticularDancer yep, send a template since it’s so easy and we’ll rate it boss

[@do0ranfrump260]

In fairness, Amazon Prime didn't understand Tolkien either.

[@georgerafa5041]

Facts

[@hastekulvaati9681]

I’m sure Tolkien would have hated it. Like he hated pretty much everything. But I am sure he would also acknowledge that every retelling of a myth is its own thing. Virgil didn’t have to agree with the Homeric worldview in order to write The Aenied. And yes. I am aware it is a bit silly to compare an Amazon Prime TV show totwo of the important works of narrative in history.

[@DerMeister821]

@@hastekulvaati9681 thinking the gap between Amazon and Tolkien is commensurate with Virgil and Homer is stunning and brave.

[@hastekulvaati9681]

@@DerMeister821 When did I say that I thought the gap was commensurate? For a start I haven’t sufficient knowledge to make a judgement of Homer vs Virgil. I suspect that no one commenting on this page does. I have read a translation of the Odyssey. It was ok I guess. A bit like a homework read. It felt like a very worthy thing to do. My reverence for those texts is due to their place within the canon of western literature. However I think you might be completely missing the point. It is not the gap in quality I am measuring. I haven’t even watched the Amazon show. I am stating a general principle. The retelling of a mythic story can have completely different morals and values to the original work it is based on. Otherwise what are we doing here? I don’t care if they don’t ‘get’ Tolkien. No more than I care if Bram Stoker ‘got’ the original Balkan vampire myths or Tarkovsky ‘got’ the Strugatsky Brothers or Walt Disney ‘got’ Thomas Mallory. If you want unadulterated Tolkien just re-read Tolkien.

[@sirtko]

😂

[@normanjohnson9877]

You are absolutely correct, Jess. The History Channel does not get Tolkien. But then, the History Channel does not get history either; and hasn’t for some time.

[@sammygoodnight]

Oh come on. That report they did on sasquatch was fair and balanced.

[@SuperZez]

I'm willing to bet they don't get channels either.

[@jout738]

@@sammygoodnight Sasquatch and bigfoot are indeed very history releated thing, so its weird how its the only thing the history channel gets right.

[@henkdachief]

she doesnt get it either.. the hollywood smaug design is better than tolkiens? yeah right..

[@lukelee7967]

I would contend that the History Channel never really did get history. Even before Ancient Aliens they had a lot of shows that were pretty uncritical of conspiracy theories.

[@MrDe4dGuy34]

To be honest, if they did actually try and say JRR Tolkien wrote the Lord of the Rings as an allegory for alien influence on the history of mankind, I would applaud the History Channel for their absolute lunacy and commitment to the bit. Instead, we got a whole lot of meh.

[@Aqsticgod]

if anything claiming any kind of allegory would be wrong either way because tolkien hated allegory

[@JL-go3]

I also find that situation amusing. I am no Tolkien expert and even a imbecile like myself knows he disliked allogory and all its manifestation, from the time when he was old and wise enough to detect its presence.

[@Mario_Angel_Medina]

That was an idea I was going to put on a novel I ended up abandoning unfinished. The main concept was that coming to Earth to start a cult used to be a get-rich-quick scheme for the people of more advanced civilizations but after the 19th century it became more profitable to turn the history of the wider galaxy into fiction (first literary sagas, now movie franchises) rather than in the lore of a religion. Tolkien was supposed to be one of those aliens and at some point the main character would see a photo of the "real" Fellowship of the Ring, who looked nothing like in the books because other important plotpoint in my novel was that pop culture is never an accurate depiction of the alien societies, technologies, historical events, etc. because of thing like editorial meddling or budget contraints

[@colbyboucher6391]

​​@@AqsticgodWhat people don't get is the difference between allegory and inspiration. When Tolkien talked about hating allegory he was talking about C.S. Lewis did where he went "oh Aslan is literally God"

[@Arcessitor]

@@AqsticgodHe may have hated it, but he did indulge in it.

[@FluffyVicky]

"Lord of the Rings is modern" is one statement bringing something to my mind my grandma born in 1945 said to me after I asked her if she read the Lord of the Rings. "I'm not into that modern stuff." I was like, what?.

[@kohlicoide2258]

"I was there FluffyVicky, i was there when Lord of the Rings was a new bestseller in the bookstores." (Sorry i cant resist)

[@FluffyVicky]

@@kohlicoide2258 Is your name Orald or Forn?

[@kohlicoide2258]

@@FluffyVicky Just Tom Bombadil, nice to meet you my dear new friend :)

[@FluffyVicky]

@@kohlicoide2258 Hallo to you and Greetings to Goldberry too.

[@eewweeppkk]

Modern has didferent meanings depending on the subject such as art or architecture, but in most fields the modern age ended a while ago.

[@maniacOtaku]

Huge Star Wars fan here. Your assessment of "sandbox to have fun in that later became a world" is correct and it really grinds my gears that many people pretend it isn't.

[@keystep8669]

Same here lol I love Star Wars (minus the new films). But comparing the world building of it to LotR is just not an apt comparison.

[@thomasesr]

I really liked the word building they did later on for SW: KotoR

[@eternalskywalker9440]

What grinds me about this is that even Lucas-blessed authors writing in-universe stories get stupid things wrong, e.g. 16-year-old Leia fighting the Empire that wasn't created until after she had been a senator for some time. It was fine for Lucas to treat the original trilogy this way, but if you are going to bother with prequels and sequels, you should spend enough time on world building to create a consistent timeline and plausible motivation and politics. Tolkien uses language and core mythology as the foundation of his world building. Star wars uses space dog fights, weird anatomy, robots, hand-wavy magic, and shallow villains. Star Wars eventually got better world building than most movie franchises, but claiming it is like Tolkien is just very sad.

[@user-mw1mj8do1z]

I was a kid at the beginning, and I remember that, besides the book that mirrored the movie, the first product beyond the movie was Splinter of the Mind's Eye. It was a novel written by Alan Dean Foster. It was the first and last novel I read beyond the original book. To this day, I have no idea how Lucas feels about this novel, or any of the other novels that fall outside the movies Lucas made. The original Star Wars book was published before the success of the movie and did include the scenes with Biggs on Tatooine that were left on the cutting room floor in the film because it was based on the screenplay by Lucas, and was actually written by Alan Dean Foster. This suggests that ADF had Lucas' blessing with the second novel. It still fell flat for me. Even at the age of 11, I felt the book was a stretch and didn't feel authentic. I think the extended universe is so accepted from the beginning because it took so long for the next movie and fans were rabid for anything they could get.

[@KasumiRINA]

It is but also it literally has the same ending as LoTR: Hero is tempted to slay the Bad Guy, but he resists, shows mercy, and then the guy he spared yeeteth the actual Big Evil into the burning reactor core, saving everyone. Literally the same ending in RoTJ and RoTK. AH YES AND THE NAMES TOO. Also similar amounts of female characters with words (like two).

[@edamamame4U]

I'm honestly surprised that the History Channel (AKA the Ancient Aliens channel) didn't try to claim that Tolkien was actually an ancient bard from the lost city of Atlantis whose work is secretly foretelling the return of an ancient alien race.

[@alanpennie8013]

That seems quite a plausible claim by their standards.

[@aaroncabatingan5238]

Just wait a few years and it will happen

[@burnedbread4691]

Andrew "Thanfiction" Blake really did this!

[@WordsOfARaven]

Is he not?

[@mrdooman]

They're saving that for the sequel.

[@davidponseigo8811]

I was born on the exact day Tolkien died, I have always told my family that for a great man to be born a great man must pass away. They don't quite agree with me.

[@goldilocks913]

Look forward to reading your magnum opus which will entrance generations of readers. No pressure 😏

[@mena94x3]

Ha ha ha!! I love that. That’s the sort of stuff my family would get a kick out of.

[@davidstivers2537]

Lol

[@atticstattic]

That's what families are for

[@joshuagross3151]

Lemme guess: you're actually a woman?

[@drtaverner]

Nobody at _The History Channel_ has ever written a history paper. Not even an undergrad paper. They have no idea what they're doing.

[@jorgeluis4389]

I suspect they did not read The Lord of the Rings either.

[@BaWitda]

Another point in the movie's Smaug design: the idea that dragons have four legs and two wings, and wyverns have two legs and a set of wings, was primarily a thing in British heraldry; medieval art had all sorts of designs for dragons. D&D would go on to make that a standard interpretation, but no setting is beholden to that rule.

[@Primalintent]

Yeah I hate "wyvern" discourse. It's like how D&D nerds sometimes get all frumpy about the term "hobgoblin" as an example of big/strong goblins, but hobgoblins in folklore are typically nice goblins, not stronger ones. (Edit: I forgot that Tolkien started that trope too, which is very funny and relevant.) Fantasy tropes are often not representative of the lore that inspired them.

[@elonstruths1475]

@@Primalintent Tolkien inadvertently started that hobgoblin thing. They are mentioned once in the Hobbit as a kind of maybe stronger goblin, and everything spiraled from there.

[@BaWitda]

@@PrimalintentYeah. I don't mind anyone who wants to use that in their setting, of course. D&D is a valid source for fantasy tropes, and no one is wrong for taking inspiration there. But D&D nerds have a tendency to treat the monster manual as the one true source of knowledge.

[@KeytarArgonian]

@@elonstruths1475I love these kinds of conversations, because I like to point out that Tolkien also started this idea of elves being these angelic, willowy beautiful figures, and not the often evil tricksters or helpful midgets making shoes for cobblers as they were before Tolkiens work. A great example is Elric, where Morcock around the same time (almost the same year) as Tolkien went down the ‘elves are dark, eldrich beings’ route.

[@Primalintent]

@@KeytarArgonian Well elves and their perception depends on how far back you go. In the Eddas they are the willowy angelic beings but they're also barely in it compared to the Aesir. It's in Christian folklore that they become wee folk. Funnily enough, nearly every humanoid mythological critter in europe got wee-folk'd at some point. Trolls being one of the funniest, we think of them as only big but there are a lot of fairy tales that assume they're small too.

[@willemvandebeek]

The actor playing Tolkien himself looks an awful lot like Edgar Allan Poe, which makes me wonder if the History Channel has those two writers confused? 😅

[@Jess_of_the_Shire]

You know what, he kind of does...Maybe they had him onset for a Poe documentary and thought he looked close enough.

[@stamasd8500]

@@Jess_of_the_Shire Yes, likely reused footage. Hey, a budget is always made better by not spending it.

[@thomaskalinowski8851]

"I'm Zombie Edgar Allen Poe here to talk to you about Tolkien and the Lord of the Rings. Nevermore!"

[@cohlinn]

🤣

[@willemvandebeek]

Might also explain the strange ghosts of World War One, since Edgar Allan Poe has written several ghost stories... 🤔

[@jamesadams1060]

It is not true that Smaug is the last Dragon in Middleearth. He is the last Great Dragon, but Gandalf says some still dwell north of the Iron Hills

[@jout738]

Yes there was much larger and stronger dragons in the first age, that some super strong and talented elves killed. Im not sure was it Elronds grandfather who killed the strongest dragon ever made. Smaug on other hand was the last great dragon, that was able to make impact on the world with his strenght and power, when I think smaller and weaker dragons survived after Smaug to the fourth age hiding somewhere, but they just were not strong enough to do major impact in anywhere or conquer something for themselves as Smaug was able to conquer Erebor for himself.

[@Richard_Nickerson]

This

[@user-er6vo4he4m]

@@jout738 actually from what i remembered is that Smaug was technically the last dragon in middle earth in the hobbit because as what Bilbo said there hasn`t been any dragons for since a thousands of years

[@matthewdykeman8149]

​@@user-er6vo4he4mThey haven't been seen yes, but that's because they dwell in Ered Mithrin aka the Grey Mountains having stolen them from the Dwarves and the ancient Rohirrim. They do most certainly still exist but their home is simply far too desolate now that no man has ever gone there and returned to tell the tale.

[@user-er6vo4he4m]

@@matthewdykeman8149 yes what about hobbits Bilbo had seen Smaug in the Hobbit that`s the last great dragon and he was a red dragon

[@seatbelttruck]

I'd never heard that quote about Frodo not failing his quest before, and, honestly, it made me cry and appreciate Tolkien's story so much more. I've been places like that, where I feel like I've failed because my strength gave out. Heck, I've been suicidal (not recently, fortunately). And... wow. Part of me understood that Frodo's "failing" was due to being ground down beyond his capacity to bear, but hearing it spelled out like that really brought it home. I remember being pissed as a kid reading a comparison between LOTR and Harry Potter that said Harry was a better hero because he didn't give in like Frodo did, and it made me really mad, but I couldn't really put into words why. That's why.

[@kyrinplays]

More or less he's protrayed a bit in a gooder side with not alot of struggles. While Frodo bore the ring with sam, he travelled across the world and stepped into mordor itself While harry sounds like he just spedran through prestige with a funny scar on his head (I know this feels bias but this is just someone who's watched both, yet more liked lotr more. So come at thee harry potter fans and say your death spells!)

[@theblackheart5727]

Excluding Sam is excluding the most pure and honest character. I’ve always seen Sam as the actual hero. Even after the scouring of the shire. He continued to look after Frodo but also became mayor of Hobbiton, began and raised a family with his long-time crush, and eventually, left the West to reunite with Frodo in the Undying Lands. And that doesn’t even mention EVERYTHING Sam did along the long journey to Mt. Doom. Sam is an absolute legend.

[@benathan6239]

Sam also gets the last words in the trilogy. Frodo is more of the protagonist, pushing the story forward, whereas Sam is the hero of the tale

[@rusinoe8364]

Samwise the Brave!

[@GribbleGob]

Samwise the based

[@reneedailey1696]

I think all of them are the true hero- The mission would not have succeeded without any of them, they all played their part and deserve flowers for it; I honestly find it tragic that folx dismiss Frodo, given the sacrifice he made carrying the Ring, not unlike soldiers who return and are ignored and vilified for being charged by their experiences.

[@KasumiRINA]

Sam is the ultimate henchman/squire. He isn't the "hero" of the story because he doesn't set himself up to be one. Frodo begrudgingly accepts this role only because nobody else agrees, and Samwise just happens to be his most loyal friend.

[@thomaskalinowski8851]

10:38 Denethor paused dramatically. "I . . . am your father!" "Erm, I know," said Faramir. "Everyone knows you're my father."

[@stapler942]

"Search your feelings, you KNOW it to be true." "Really. Who would have guessed."

[@Halbared]

‘Yeah I know, i watched the prequels!’

[@tezz2698]

Really, that scene would probably go the other way around (at least in the movies)

[@caitlinhanson8631]

I'm pretty sure denethor could've used that reminder...

[@stevenguy-gibbens4253]

And as a huge Starwars and Tolkien fan, I completely agree with you, the 'world' of Starwars is colossal, but it's piecemeal and built over time by a massive number of contributors, although there is lots of depth to George's original world when you really pick it apart, it is such a daft comparison! George's attention was split between so many projects, while Tolkien invested a lifetime in one place!

[@Zectifin]

as someone who is a big star wars fan and a moderate LOTR fan, the world building in star wars isn't much compared to many other settings. especially when they have ruled out any of the expanded universe stuff. Star Wars was only fleshed out by all the 3rd party books and games. Now its just the movies and a couple TV shows. We hardly know anything about most of the aliens in star wars.

[@QuixoticCowboy]

The word depth should really not be used to describe star wars. I don't care much for it, where as I find respite in Arda at least once every few months. But starwars is either like warhammer where a bunch of writers created lore over years which should not be compared to a single individual creating lore. Or you look at just what Lukas did which barely has any world building. In the star wars movies one is just told things without elaborating on most things.

[@samlerf]

Do you know "Darth Plagueis", "Cloak of Deception", "Shatterpoint" and "Labyrinth of Evil"?

[@JaceDeanLove]

​@@samlerf all not canon

[@samlerf]

@@JaceDeanLove Says who?

[@stepheningle6225]

Amazing how they found those things "intriguing" but were somehow not "intrigued" (as in "roused to curiosity") to explore them further.

[@victoriafisher1923]

Common mistake revealing under-researched work. "This is very intriguing," says the undergrad who put the paper together the night before based on AI-produced internet content.

[@laser8389]

The "Aniur" pronunciation reminds me of a bit from the extended TTT extra features where the narrator says Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli are arriving in the kingdom/land of "The Rohans" ;)

[@krummhorn2824]

They didn’t even get the ring itself right. It should be featureless until subjected to heat as we all know.

[@matthewdykeman8149]

"That's what I'm saying!" - Doofenshmirtz.

[@jacobdugan4305]

I remember when the History Channel first started. They actually did History back then. History doesn't sell, so they changed the management, and Ice Road Truckers was born. They needed to change the name at that time but alas they did not. I see things have not improved since then.

[@SuprousOxide]

For a while it was all about World War II, to the extent it was called the Hitler channel. Because WW II brought viewers. But then I guess, aliens were even better

[@thorinbane]

And this applies to many many cable channels. Even the CBC in Canada is mainly a dumpster fire compared to 20 years ago.

[@lukesmith9455]

I think it's wrong to say it didn't sell. It was moderately successful I think. Then they made Pawn Stars and those types of shows that had some ties to history and they did so much better that the search for ever growing profits destroyed any hope the channel had to remain about history. Admittedly, it was 99% WWII documentaries on repeat (which is why it had the nickname "The Hitler Channel"), so the budget was kept small to remain profitable but it wasn't failing. The same thing happened with TLC (formerly named The Learning Channel). Anything educational is killed because it doesn't create as much profit as entertainment.

[@rebbeccahoneycutt7941]

Animal Planet was at least honest by adding a tag line about their channel. S4rprisingly H4man....

[@gmansard641]

I was in graduate school (history) when the History Channel first appeared. Tended a lot toward WWII, but at least it was historical. One thing that did in those days that I really liked was to show a historically based film, then at intermission they'd have some actual academic historians dissecting it, sometimes vehemently. But that's not nearly as appealing as pawn shops or swamp denizens.

[@reflexnight]

First thing I saw when they showed the Ring at Mt Doom... was it is covered in carvings, but in the book its described in the fellowship as follows Gandalf held it up. It looked to be made of pure and solid gold. "Can you see any markings on it?" he asked. "No," said Frodo. "There are none. It is quite plain, and it never shows a scratch or sign of wear."

[@AlyssMa7rin]

To be fair, that could simply be due to proximity to the source of its creation.

[@jhsalem5480]

The markings can come up during certain events. For example, throwing the Ring in a fireplace will make the markings show. Also when Sauron puts it on in the movie the engravings show, as it is close to its source of its power. So when it goes into Mount Doom, both the heat and nearness to the source of its creation could cause the markings to show

[@reflexnight]

@@jhsalem5480 yes, but the marks are only evish script writing out the words, not decorative ordamentation or the like.

[@ButtersTheGreat1]

Also in the early war in 1914 during the British Armies first engagement they had reports of ghosts of English Longbow men arriving and assisting the British against the Germans. So maybe ghosts.

[@KasumiRINA]

The British have a long history of tales like this, from King Arthur sleeping until Britain will need her help, to Battle of Bannockburn having the Knights Templar appearing out of nowhere to turn the tide, so Tolkien, well versed (to say the least) in mythology, obviously wrote a story about Deus Ex ghost army in that style, why they made it sound like "ghosts meant WW1 had many dead" huge stretch is beyond me.

[@brucebrantley5692]

I believe that the bond between Sam and Frodo was based on his experience of the bond between men in war. This is something that I experienced myself in the Gulf War.

[@jonevansauthor]

Unlikely. I don't think you've read enough Jeeves and Wooster or perhaps you're not quite sure how an Englishman feels about his gardeners. At the time, having a gardener would have been a lot more common and Tolkien would have witnessed it first hand, or had familiarity with it. The great British gardeners were so well known that Pratchett even referenced them throughout his work. Even Goscinny and Uderzo touched on gardening. The most appropriate wartime comparison would be a gentleman and his valet, or soldier servant (and later batman) in the armed forces. The thing is, their relationship is 100% in place before the Fellowship.

[@katherinewilson1853]

@@jonevansauthor I don't know that it should be unlikely to have a bond with people with a different designation and class than you in the military, regardless of the time period.

[@caffetiel]

​@@katherinewilson1853 It would, though? But also the comparison doesn't track if they're the same class.

[@chalmersmathew4831]

@@jonevansauthor​​⁠​⁠​⁠ Tolkien directly stated that Sam was a reflection of the common soldier. From a brief search, Tolkien states in a letter that "My Sam Gamgee is indeed a reflexion of the English soldier, of the privates and batmen I knew in the 1914 war, and recognised as so far superior to myself." Also, in John Garth’s ‘Tolkien and the Great War’ he mentions that Tolkien very much wanted to be amongst the footsoldiers, but because of duty and rank he was sequestered with the other upperclass military personnel (I wish I had a specific page and quote but I read this a few years ago as a library ebook). With these two together, I think that Tolkien was using the gardener relationship to explore the relationship he would have wanted with other soldiers across class differences. This last point is possibly argued by Tolkien scholars too, but again it’s been a while.

[@jneumy566]

Also, in WWI officers had "Batmen" who were basically like their servants. They would bring orders to the troops for them, they would get them food, drink, and Sam behaves exactly as if he were Frodo's Batman. Tolkien was a lieutenant in WWI, and so would've had one of his own.

[@martialatheist717]

Surprised they didn't try to connect elves with aliens or something. It's probably on the way. Love your videos!

[@BjoernVT]

Do not give them ideas! They'd say "The kings of Numenor built graves greater than the halls of the living, most certainly those were shaped like wavy pyramides. They MUST have had that idea from somewhere, obviously only extramiddleearthlings could have achieved such a thing!", "Ents, Orcs? Very obviously a reference to the Avatars used by humanoid explorers , mocking the local god like creatures from an ancient myth... Coincidence that those were alien humanoids in that world? James Cameron obviously spoke out what was to risky for Tolkien, who ... don't you see this connection?" "The ring being a reference to the A-bomb is a proof for Flerfs! Since the ring has been destroyed in the rounded up middle earth,which shows that it plays in a very far away future, since we still have A-Bombs... this obviously prooves that the earth is still flat" ... ... ... Dang, History Channel... It will keeel! Though only our brain cells and not with a sharp knife ... oh wait! "Those elven blades and Numenorean daggers are being reproduced live in todays episodde of Forged in Fire!"

[@somedandy7694]

"The statues on the Anduin River could not have been built by human technology, so obviously it was by levitation and power tools" As Ancient Alien theorists suggest...

[@gmansard641]

This episode did say that the Elves represented Man before the fall from Grace, which really made me howl.

[@KTempestBradford]

The elves are really the Annunaki! Elrond is Enki and Morgoth was Enlil and something something Atlantis Nazca portals Sirius.

[@timgil7830]

Yes and sasquatch are native to middle earth in fangorn and interdimensionally travel to our world

[@markuhler2664]

The director broke out his 7th grade paper on LotR. And then post production an editor who had never heard of the books or Tolkien took over.

[@o00nemesis00o]

"Hobbit" only sounds like "habit" in Americanese, which Tolkien, for his linguistic arts, did not speak. He had no idea what a 'hobbit' was when the word occurred to him.

[@DerekDerekDerekDerekDerekDerek]

Hobbit was probably influenced by hobbes which were like demon goblins in anglo/norse mythology

[@kethrytamra3707]

A "hobaid" (ie hobbit) is an old Welsh unit of grain measurement--equal to about two and a half imperial bushels. Tolkien greatly admired the Welsh as the last "true" Britons. The hobbit race is based on how he viewed the Welsh people in the place where he would go "holidaying". He felt them to be simple, generous, kind, close to the land but not ignorant--simply more interested in their own people and places then the wider drama of the outside world. That was his ideal for how the best people should be. He may have not remembered in the moment that he chose hobbit because of hobaid but it is well documented in letters between him and CS Lewis that that is where he got the word from and felt that naming his people a Welsh term to describe their general size and weight was a fitting tribute to the people group that he loved.

[@DerekDerekDerekDerekDerekDerek]

@@kethrytamra3707 That's just false. Don't spout your strange opinions as facts.

[@robgronotte1]

How are those words pronounced in England? I didn't know either sounded different.

[@x-wing8785]

Yes. It came from a thoughtless sentence that Tolkien wrote down on piece of paper. "In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit". It had no purpose or meaning. Later he started thinking about what a hobbit actually could be and ended up creating the "Hobbits"(race).

[@Jonalith]

Frodo just wandering off into the woods like a lost old man with dementia, never to return is now my new headcannon!

[@josephmummerth2516]

frodo and bilbo did not go to valinor to live forever , but to heal before passing on to what comes next in the afterlife ! even tolkien stated this !

[@maxedoutvibes]

Hi, Star Wars fan here, as much as I love the series and the universe it’s built. I also agree that the level of detail in Tolkien’s worldbuilding far surpasses that of Star Wars even today with all the resources that came out after. I’m also currently reading the LotR books for the first time, so I really do appreciate the level of depth to Tolkien’s world

[@KasumiRINA]

I disagree with her saying it's not a good thing to compare to: sure, Star Wars is more of a crowd effort with George Lucas being the retconnator, but outside of that thing... it's basically high fantasy IN SPACE. Not to mention the Christian narrative, am I the only one who clearly sees the final battle of both LoTR and RotJ being almost completely about hero being merciful to the villain opponent? If Frodo didn't spare Gollum he'd have one finger more, but ring would never have been destroyed - or Sauron defeated. Had Luke killed Vader, he would never had yeeted the Emperor down the shaft, fulfilling the prophecy and destroying the Sith. Both stories have a VERY similar ending. Also good guys with blue shining swords. Tolkien is a bit closer to reality, of course, with orcs being a real problem here in Europe.

[@j-henry7391]

I will defend the point that Frodo is in fact set up as a special hobbit, it is reiterated many times in the first few chapters of the book that he's viewed as a rather strange hobbit, possibly hanging out with elves, having an odd background, knowing things most hobbits don't know, etc.

[@RickJaeger]

He's somewhat stranged from hobbit society, that doesn't make him special. The Tooks are also estranged from normal hobbit things, but none of them were dragonquesting ring-bearers.

[@terronscibe3218]

The 'ghosts' is referred to ptsd and trauma induced hallucinations. My Uncle was a diver in Vietnam. He was tasked to retrieve dead soldiers and deactivate traps and mines. Never-never wake him from his sleep.. He would wake as the soldier he was several decades ago; a very scary scene to witness.

[@amelialonelyfart8848]

Yeah that whole bit annoyed me. 'Ghosts' is a pretty common term for PTSD hallucinations and lost loved ones. Probably the most ancient one too, iirc ancient Assyrian warriors were documented of talking about seeing 'ghosts' of fallen friends.

[@AkiyukiKitten]

@@amelialonelyfart8848 That would have come across if they had used it AFTER describiong the trenches i.e. blood, death, and the ghost that they left behind. The ghosts come after the trauma (a good while after, for some). Though admittedly, that was probably just bad, lazy writing. The kind of bad and lazy that would have had my language teacher dock me a whole grade if I presented that in an essay.

[@AdamMPick]

@@AkiyukiKittenThe guy who reads it, did not help. Sounds like AI reading an AI script. "Those words are often used together."

[@kenhall3878]

Tolkien participated in the Battle of Mons. A number of British soldiers reported seeing a ghost army of British bowmen during that fight protecting them from the superior German forces. I have no idea if there were actually ghosts or not, but my suspicion is that's where the 'Ghosts' reference came from. That would then mean the documentary can't even make the reference to the account and then correctly follow up on it. They failed at presenting the actual historical accounts correctly let alone completely. Congrats History channel.

[@corberus3119]

​@@kenhall3878except they didn't. What was reported in the media was a fictional story from a Welsh writer

[@Odd-Lots]

My wife and I are building a life-sized Hobbit Hole and just recently found your channel. Thanks so much for making this content!

[@radagast7200]

Take my subscription, you glorious hobbit people.

[@yeahnaaa292]

If you build it; They will come. Also, if you build a sidexside Mother/Daughter - so will I. Your move.

[@Jess_of_the_Shire]

How lovely! Good Luck!

[@Odd-Lots]

@@yeahnaaa292 😆

[@sspsfivefivefive]

you seriously need to make some videos of that. Sounds amazing!

[@creativewriter3887]

The History Channel…. Where the first casualty of their line up IS History. THC used to be kind of good in the mid/late 1990s but went right into the toilet around 2001. Your analysis was very thorough and it was a a VERY enjoyable documentary within a documentary about a documentary. :)

[@user-er6vo4he4m]

little did you know that the documentary was from 2009

[@Goatcha_M]

Smaug wasn't the last dragon, just the last of the Great Dragons with fire hot enough to destroy a Great Ring. There were plenty of lesser wyrms to the north of the inhabited lands, their area is on the maps included in the books, as well as other references made by Gandalf.

[@augustinewestley7310]

I'd Love to see History Channel try to explain Tom Bombadil.

[@CliffSedge-nu5fv]

Well, you see, long ago the river had a daughter. Tom Bombadil fell in love with her. Then he walked around and sang songs. But, _what is the REAL story?_

[@user-yi1sx3pr5q]

Tom is the only man in middle earth

[@zweihanderr221]

@@CliffSedge-nu5fv Well they both are likely ..... ALIENS

[@kuman0110]

Tom Bombadil is an alien, it is true, it was revealed to me in a dream

[@x-wing8785]

@@CliffSedge-nu5fv Real story? He was an alien, of course.

[@jothewerewolf]

It really does read like someone skimmed through the wikipedia article and then trimmed it down to 4000 words. And yes, this is the exact level of academic rigor I expected from the History Channel.

[@liljenborg2517]

I was going to say pretty much the same thing. The script for this thing came across exactly like someone rambled on about their thoughts after skimming the Wikipedia pages about Tolkien, Hobbit, Lord of the Rings, and the Silmarillion, had used a speech-to-text program on his tablet or phone to record those ramblings, and, with virtually no editing, turn in the script two days after getting the assignment to write it.

[@kieranrollinson8750]

DON'T YOU DARE BE DISSING MY ANCIENT ALIENS!!!!!!!!! WE ALL KNOW THE TRUTH!!!!!!! THE PYRAMIDS WERE BUILT BY LIZARD PEOPLE FROM THE ZORGON GALAXY IN THE BETA UNIVERSE 20 TRILLION YEARS IN THE FUTURE AND THEN TELEPORTED TO THE PAST, JUST TO MOCK HUMANS AND TRICK THEM INTO THINKING HUMANS COULD ACTUALLY ACHIEVE SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I WILL NOT BE FOOLED!!!!!!! WHO IS WITH ME????????????? FIGHT BACK AGAINST THE ALIEN MIND CONTROL PROGRAMS!!!!!!! THE CIA, FBI, NSA, FFA, FDA, TSA, BTA, FDP, FDC, AND ALL THE OTHER GOVERNMENT AGENCIES ARE IN ON IT!!!!!!!!!!!!! THEY DO NOT WANT TO LET YOU KNOW THAT THE EARTH IS ACTUALLY FLAT, AND IS INSIDE A GLASS SNOWBALL DOME!!!!!!!!!!!! BE AWARE!!!!!!!!!! BE FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TRUTH SHALL PREVAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D

[@jonevansauthor]

Yup. Why hire some supposed Tolkien experts and not just have them write the script? It's only 45 minutes of light fluff. Just stick them in a room together, and have them talk about him to an outline. Job done.

[@jimbelaco4]

I think they were drawing upon the part in the Hobbit that mentions that Smaug wore his treasure pressed between his scales like armor. Diamonds and gold that embedded itself in the dragon's hide over long years of slumber amongst the hoard. Ironically this is actually a really cool interpretation of that idea. The dragon is red, but it appears gold because so much of its treasure is stuck to it.

[@Claego]

Woooow, I never made the connection until now that what Frodo did physically and mentally to save Middle-Earth isn't what did. In fact, at the last moment, he failed physically and mentally. It was his mercy for Gollum earlier in the story, the very reason Gandalf entrusted him with the One Ring, that inevitably led to the chain of events that would result in Gollum falling into the lava with the ring. Wooow that's genius my mind is blown!

[@natsmith303]

Whenever I think about the History Channel anymore, I'm reminded of a WKUK sketch where a boardroom of suits are pitching their new documentary Dinosaurs in the Civil War with the weak defense, "There *were* dinosaurs, and there *was* a Civil War!"

[@acrodave9287]

But WHICH Civil War..?

[@Techno963]

No one's going to mention the perfection that is the brontosaurus mug?

[@Lobsterwithinternet]

I saw it. Right up there with my Beatrix Potter mug as the mug GOAT.

[@Prod847]

I came to mention the mug. It’s wonderful and I need one!

[@markcross8649]

Apatosaurus!!

[@jroysdon]

Can't... get... over... the.... stain.... on.... the... shirt :/

[@jayrudo6280]

@@jroysdonnow I can’t unsee it.😂

[@buckysgirl4945]

My sweet grandma who saw the Hobbit after surgery noticed that Smaug was different from the first movie and the second. Again she was still coming out of her anesthesia and was on pain killers, and she noticed that Smaug was different from one movie and another.

[@mchammer5592]

I have literally NEVER heard of a field expert being even “okay” with history channels take.

[@thomaskalinowski8851]

18:30 To be fair, the ghost army that King George V summoned in 1918 doesn't get nearly as much play in popular culture as beagle that the Allied Powers employed as a pilot on the Western Front.

[@maryeckel9682]

Hot take: was Snoopy a descendant of Huan?

[@danielj6897]

Lol the mention that the Orcs worked for profit made me imagine Sauron's army populated by Ferengi from Star Trek.

[@magnusprime962]

I would love to see some sort of sketch of Quark and Rom at one of the major LOTR battles. That would be hilarious

[@KasumiRINA]

They still do. It's just work in mordor, any orc PoW we interview on why they keep enlisting in the army always says the same thing. Money. War is just a job for orcs.

[@theeclecticmonk4426]

Another point lost is the fact that the true hero story is Sam. It’s his hero journey from eaves dropping at Bags End to leading the cleansing of the Shire.

[@Bad.AI.Robot_Kane-BOT]

KZbin recommended this for finding your channel. I love it!, gonna binge your stuff this weekend for sure 👍

[@vendettarules1]

The History channel does'nt get HISTORY... much less Tolkien! !! I'm honestly surprised they didn't say Anicent Aliens inspired him!"

[@RyanRyzzo]

"Hey, Bob. Read this script." "Nucular." "An yoor." "Calvary."

[@DarthKhai1991]

No I agree with you 100% it’s like they missed the easy stuff and decided to weave their own narrative into what they “want” lord of the rings and Tolkien to be.

[@ultravioletpisces3666]

That sounds on brand

[@AdamPentz-ct2hn]

Jess, I just found your channel, and as a fellow Tolkien aficionado, you handled History's monumental gaff wonderfully! Dealing with Frodo's "failure" is so insightful, I'm going to share that clip with the 7th graders at my school who just finished reading the series.

[@totallynottrademarked5279]

Tolkien very publically proclaimed LOTR while it might have started as a mythos for Anglo-Saxons he quickly decided that was a bad idea and that it should be a mythos all on its own. He also hated people trying to make allegorical comparisons to his work. "While it is impossible not to be influenced by what one knows, this work is in no way meant to be allegorical." - Tolkien paraphrased from a BBC interview he did.

[@lettuceman9439]

Not to Mention, Linguistic

[@lettuceman9439]

He does have allegorical subtext in LOTR specifically pertaining his critic over the industrialization of Britain and his devout beliefs as a Roman Catholic. When he meant allegorical it is in the context of 2 Factors, 1) He believes that LOTR will be interpreted differently by person to person, Though with the added context that he want it LOTR to be part of Britain's Mythology alongside King Arthur and Robin Hood. 2) CS. Lewis being very unsubtle about Aslan.

[@sayerglasgow115]

I think, while it's true that his work isn't an "allegory" per se, a few people have taken this to mean that it wasn't written to have any bearing on anything happening in the real world. The good old "X story isn't political!" argument, and this isn't true. Tolkien may not have written any of the people, cultures, or events in his story as specific allegories to real ones, however, his story absolutely espouses a strong set of values, philosophies, and principals that had and still have a lot of bearing on real world events. For example, there are a number of parts of his story emphasizing the value of nature as well as industry's tendency to destroy it. Tolkien's work takes a very negative view towards militarism, industrialism, and authoritarianism, and portrays the tranquil, pastoral life in the shire as an idyllic one. A lack of specific allegories to real world events doesn't mean the story wasn't a commentary on them.

[@Kim_YoJong]

This is not even close to what he said

[@jonevansauthor]

I think anyone taking the very public statements of Tolkien on allegory in his stories, and trying to argue that he's wrong and there's a lot of allegory, should first pick up an OED*, look up 'arrogant' and 'conceited' and 'not as qualified as the Merton Professor of English Language and Literature at Oxford'. I'm comfortable with him saying, 'This is not what the story is about' or 'this hot take is stupid and wrong' and accepting his word for it. *Not the whole thing all at once, you'd give yourself a hernia.

[@420Travesty]

If you've watched anything else on the History channel this is the least surprising thing in the world.

[@oscar_eslava_]

The world building of Star Wars has been, and continues to be, a cooperative effort of dozens if not hundreds of creators adding richness to the universe with every new piece of creation (films, books, comics, videogames, TV shows). As far as I know, Tolkien was alone - and my Goddess, did he build something!

[@michaeljsnappers]

Only 15 mins into the video so I don't know if this gets addressed later, but for context, this doc was an episode of 'Clash of the Gods'; a series about key (mostly greek) mythological figures. There's an episode for Zeus, Hades, Heracles (though they use his more popular roman name), and Thor. That is why this doc puts so much focus on comparing the events of the story with myth. With the smaug section, they're actually hardening back to a previous Beowulf focused episode they did, which is why there's so little explanation. Thank you for the great video though, Jess!

[@arthurerickson5162]

Jess, just like there used to be music on MTV, there used to be history on the History Channel. In fact, right now there’s a program on THC, with an actual physicist, claiming that element 115 was the fuel source for an alien spacecraft! An excellent dissection of their “documentary”. I’m glad you were not evaluating my Masters thesis!

[@AteshSeruhn]

Something-115 ... have they been playing classic XCOM?😅

[@Roadwarior2]

THC is likely also what influenced that hypothesis.

[@DonVigaDeFierro]

​@@Roadwarior2I'd suggest something stronger. DMT or LSD perhaps.

[@jdlech]

Tolkien was a student of history. He stitched a lot of our history together into his story through a re-imagining of the details. For instance, the fall of Osgiliath is a very close retelling of the siege of Malta. Specifically, how Denethor rebukes Faramir and sends him back to certain death in Osgiliath parallels how the knights were told to defend Fort Saint Elmo to the very last. Another parallel was when the Ottomans catapulted the decapitated heads of the knights at the main fortress, just as the orcs did after the fall of Osgiliath. Another instance is Boromir and his horn of Gondor. Boromir pays for his arrogance with his life, but not before he calls for help by blowing his horn so hard that it splits in two. This is a re-imagination of the death of Roland - a story already deeply romanticized by Tolkien's time. He, too, died for his arrogance by refusing to call for help until too late. But once he called for help, he supposedly blew his horn so hard that it split in two. He did, at least, in the romanticized version of his story. There is no easy way to put all this together because Tolkien borrowed from thousands of years of history, cherry picking bits and pieces from disparate times, disparate people, disparate events. There is no cohesive arch, or theme to it.

[@KasumiRINA]

Yeah you'd think decorating fences with human heads is some fantasy villain shit, but then you see real pictures of what orcs did in Donbas with Ukrainians, or their videos of Syrians or stories about all captured Georgian girls - any age - being SA'ed on principle. And you know any historical text about russia will simply tell you that ultimate fantasy evil is just a real "country" wannabe.

[@TheHoneyBadger-yh5vj]

God bless you and your work young lady 💜💜💜

[@Sputnik5790]

I think those WW1 "ghosts" were meant to symbolise the PTSD haunting the surviving soldiers.

[@jd4121]

Those hobbits in the documentary looked like they’re about to stab you 😂

[@Jess_of_the_Shire]

Right? They made them look so aggressive!

[@sebastianevangelista4921]

@@Jess_of_the_Shire CSI The Shire coming this Fall. Find out who got gutted this time!

[@Anglisc1682]

Their blades glow blue when normal sized chavs are nearby

[@hebercluff1665]

"Put the Lembas bread in the bag, and nooooo one has to get hurt."

[@LowellLucasJr.]

Considering what they did to worm tongue, you're not wrong😂

[@whoaitstiger]

What's weird about them having this actor writing on a blank page when talking about how The Hobbit idea was conceived is that we have interview footage of Tolkien describing this moment. Why couldn't they just include that?

[@lolaby2]

Because paying people for rights to use and because it would make it VERY clear that they picked the wrong actor 😂

[@liammatthewart4609]

Top notch Jess, I think it’s great you were able to elaborate on some of the timeless original themes within Tolkiens writing.

[@OneThousandDead]

Thank you for making this!

[@jellycubed3575]

That dinosaur mug might be the best thing I've ever seen.

[@BrownCoatCaptn]

This I need one

[@Mutski1579]

Did it look like Barney? I mean, it was on the history channel. Wouldn't surprise me if they fucked that up, too! 😂

[@kieranrollinson8750]

DON'T YOU DARE BE DISSING MY ANCIENT ALIENS!!!!!!!!! WE ALL KNOW THE TRUTH!!!!!!! THE PYRAMIDS WERE BUILT BY LIZARD PEOPLE FROM THE ZORGON GALAXY IN THE BETA UNIVERSE 20 TRILLION YEARS IN THE FUTURE AND THEN TELEPORTED TO THE PAST, JUST TO MOCK HUMANS AND TRICK THEM INTO THINKING HUMANS COULD ACTUALLY ACHIEVE SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I WILL NOT BE FOOLED!!!!!!! WHO IS WITH ME????????????? FIGHT BACK AGAINST THE ALIEN MIND CONTROL PROGRAMS!!!!!!! THE CIA, FBI, NSA, FFA, FDA, TSA, BTA, FDP, FDC, AND ALL THE OTHER GOVERNMENT AGENCIES ARE IN ON IT!!!!!!!!!!!!! THEY DO NOT WANT TO LET YOU KNOW THAT THE EARTH IS ACTUALLY FLAT, AND IS INSIDE A GLASS SNOWBALL DOME!!!!!!!!!!!! BE AWARE!!!!!!!!!! BE FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TRUTH SHALL PREVAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D

[@Chillin24Seven]

I don’t even know what the history channel is anymore. Like it’s not even history anymore

[@Lobsterwithinternet]

Of course, it isn't. With sites like KZbin around as competition, the History Channel was losing viewers. That's when a new CEO came in and changed the programming towards reality shows and conspiracy stuff which was popular. When historical integrity and financial solvency butt heads, usually finance wins.

[@nisselarson3227]

On Frodo. Yes, I agree with what you said, and would like to add that in HIS mind, he was only ever really going to Rivendell. He took great steps to hide this by that whole "pretend-move" and all. But as I remember the book, he never initially thought he was actually personally going to *Mount Doom* in order to help his fellow hobbits from the horrors of industrialization. He knew he had to take the ring the hell out of The Shire but didn't really have any plans since he was relying on Gandalf and the wiser Elves.

[@valmarsiglia]

Since you mention it, there were battlefield ghost stories in WWI such as the so-called Angels of Mons, a heavenly host that suddenly appeared and helped the British.

[@Bluestatesurvival]

"There are few who can" -Gandalf, I think.

[@radagast7200]

"Hey, Over there! Is that a hobbit?" "Nah... thats just a hobo and a rabbit. But they're making a hobbit!" - Bender Bending Rodriguez Futurama > History Channel

[@Opale90]

I love the explanation how Frodo did not fail at the crack of doom, but his kind deeds throughout the adventure is what set up a chain of events to succeed evil. It shows that even if he was under the influence of evil around his neck, he could still make the right choice spreading goodness and this resistance is why evil cannot win or survive in this world

[@cheesburgr]

This video improved my understanding of Frodo at the climax, and improves my appreciation for the whole story. Thanka!!

[@jkajewski]

That gunfire at 19:45, bro is in british kit, firing a Mosin Nagant, and takes two shots without cycling the bolt, amazing

[@PorgWitch]

The Halloween mask for Gollum is just amazing 😂

[@OldManSparkplug]

1) Excellent mug. Truly. 2) Thank you for watching that Drek so I don't have to. Eeep.

[@hede_the_call]

Excellent video. Your segment on Frodo's "failure" and his merited grace was worth the price of admission (subscription) alone.

[@SergsHistory1783]

I honestly agree with the assessment that Frodo, having to leave middle earth, is closely tied to modern day PtSd or formally known as shell shock

[@IanZainea1990]

28:19 this is something my therapist has been trying to get through to me. Its not about results. I saw a quote on my meditation app that said "its not about success, its about learning from my mistakes" and i would go further. Its not even about learning from your mistakes. Its about starting. Making the attempt.

[@Gohka]

"Better to try and fail than to have never tried at all" - Someone smarter than I

[@SteveHill3D]

That knobbly ring is really upsetting to me.

[@Justjustinp]

It’s crazy how fast big companies picked up Tolkien’s work and started spreading misinformation about it the millisecond Christopher Tolkien died. He wouldn’t have let all this nonsense slide.

[@sacoboyscinema]

Smaug is referred to as 'Smaug the Golden' in the appendices of ROTK so that's probably why he called him a golden dragon.

[@m3kkR]

love this so far ps, so close -- you almost made a documentary about a documentary longer than the documentary itself

[@Jess_of_the_Shire]

As I edited, I started to get a bit worried I would go over 45 minutes lol...Honestly, there's some stuff I left out that I could have always included

[@anlumo1]

Probably a bit cheaper in production though.

[@colincopland3665]

@@Jess_of_the_Shire Shall we get an extended edition release a few months from now?

[@troffle]

@@Jess_of_the_Shire I am in no way connected, but I would invite you to check the videos (especially the reviews of The Hobbit and The Rings Of Power). The Hobbit reviews are 4 videos: 2h23m25s + 2h52m29s + 3h55m48s + 3h51m51s = 13h03m33s. Rings Of Power are 9 videos: 48m57s + 50m50s + 1h01m20s + 1h07m55s + 1h33m47s + 1h17m37 + 1h45m32s + 1h54m11s+3h30m01s = 13h50m10s...

[@KevinKitten]

"So bad that it's not even wrong"

[@BuddyWithTheSideburns]

As someone who knows Star Wars better than my own relatives' birthdays, everything you said about Star Wars worldbuilding is completely accurate. A+ assessment. No notes 👍

[@joshmccarty8800]

That depiction of golem is what nightmares are made of

[@pawned79]

I was invited to give a one-hour presentation on Tolkien during an office social function. I entitled it “Love, Loss, Literature, and Liturgy: Influences on Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings.” I am very proud of that briefing. I like to think I didn’t make the same mistakes as the History Channel and other poor documentaries. I do remember feeling bad that I didn’t understand the significance of Tolkien’s publication of Pearl.

[@RelateGREAT]

Would’ve loved to hear your presentation! Great title.

[@pawned79]

@@RelateGREAT I have a copy of it hidden on KZbin. It is an MS Teams recording. The only reason I don’t share it with strangers is because you can see other employees names and thumbnails around the screen. If I knew anything about video editing, I would blur them out. There is one other person who speaks in the video, the hostess, whom I would ask for permission. I know her, and she would likely say yes. If @Jess_of_the_Shire was willing to watch it, I would email her the private link

[@RelateGREAT]

Gotcha! Thanks for letting me know. @@pawned79

[@HS-su3cf]

Ghost in WWI? Are they thinking of Arthur Machen's "The Angles of Mons", where ghostly longbow-men saved the BEF. When it was published, it was not marked as fiction, and Machen was also doing journalism. Thus it was widely believed to be a factual report at the time. The sensors at the time decided not to make people aware of this at the time.

[@KasumiRINA]

There was a similar story of Templars appearing out of nowhere to save Scots in the Battle of Bannockburn, AND the various stories of King Arthur returning in dire need, so British lore has TONS of stories that look close to ghost army led by long dead king saving the day.

[@codybgg]

Okay, you're fantastic. First video I've seen and I love it and your knowledge

[@NatetheNerdy]

I really like how in the end, you said more about Tolkien and his works than this documentary and in less time.

[@poofbomb-minecraftmore1883]

I remember being really fascinated by this documentary as a kid. In fact, it’s what got me into LotR and will myself to watch the old LotR CDs my family had that I was originally too scared to because the image of gollum on the side of the box

[@djparn007]

Much television programming seems to be written for the average middle schooler. This is why seventy-eight thousand of us look forward to watching you each Friday. Thank you, Jess. 💙💙

[@Polyphemus47]

I just 'found' your channel, and slammed the 'subscribe' button. I not only love the content, but also your research and presentation.

[@damenwhelan3236]

Im so glad someone has said it. I ranted at my brother abiut this documentary to the point i wrote an essay ajd was going to make a video on the topic before i had sufficiently vented...

[@chadbennett7873]

Very well done dissection of a poorly produced documentary. The History Channel should be sued for false advertising in the name of their channel. So little history, so much cotton candy (all fluff and no substance). Thank you for your insight and protection of the inspiration to my own creation. Tolkien was not one to lay out all of his thoughts, so it allows speculation as to what someone wants him to be for them. While I appreciate Tolkien's privacy, he is an highly interesting creator and people are going to go where they wish to go. You keep a firm foundation, and I am thankful for that. Thank you, Jess!

[@KasumiRINA]

History channel is right there with MTV not doing much music, KZbin not really focusing on tube TVs, and Coca-Cola not having cocaine in it no more smh...

[@bjarnivalur6330]

Also: If they had explored any broader than just Beowulf and the Sagas', they would have found the the word 'Orc' has been used all over Europe to describe anything from evil spirits _(spirits escaped from Orcus),_ Trolls, Ogres, to even big bad wolfs, some of which have a lot more in common with Tolkien orcs.

[@KasumiRINA]

Orc is just a word for those who live in Mordor, which is r$#%sia. Of course they weren't capitalists when Tolkien wrote this, but I think he seriously downplayed real life orski savagery and inhumaneness. Azog the Defiler might look brutal in his head chopping ways in his idealistic world, but he's closer to one of the puppies that alexey milchakov killed than an average ru$$1an.

[@tagabundok1]

I really appreciate you quoting Tolkien's letter about Frodo's "failure" on Mt. Doom. As a somewhat disillusioned Christian, I found it to be a hopeful message that might allow me to forgive myself for my own failures.🙏

[@loooongneck]

When people talk about ghosts in reference to someone like a war veteran they’re referring to the haunting memories they have of people they were friends and comrades with who are dead now.

[@billjacobs521]

Sure, but what a way to phrase it, as literally the first thing in a list of things Tolkien experienced.

[@craigvdodge]

“But that’s because they’re making things up.” Lol

[@josmith9662]

I was a 14 yr old atheist who read the LOTR in 10 days or so and several times soon after. I never thought it Christian but I did quote Tolkien in his distane of allegory when the Eng Lit teacher demanded we ruin a different book by demanding we analyse it in the manner she thought it meant

[@kieranrollinson8750]

DON'T YOU DARE BE DISSING MY ANCIENT ALIENS!!!!!!!!! WE ALL KNOW THE TRUTH!!!!!!! THE PYRAMIDS WERE BUILT BY LIZARD PEOPLE FROM THE ZORGON GALAXY IN THE BETA UNIVERSE 20 TRILLION YEARS IN THE FUTURE AND THEN TELEPORTED TO THE PAST, JUST TO MOCK HUMANS AND TRICK THEM INTO THINKING HUMANS COULD ACTUALLY ACHIEVE SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I WILL NOT BE FOOLED!!!!!!! WHO IS WITH ME????????????? FIGHT BACK AGAINST THE ALIEN MIND CONTROL PROGRAMS!!!!!!! THE CIA, FBI, NSA, FFA, FDA, TSA, BTA, FDP, FDC, AND ALL THE OTHER GOVERNMENT AGENCIES ARE IN ON IT!!!!!!!!!!!!! THEY DO NOT WANT TO LET YOU KNOW THAT THE EARTH IS ACTUALLY FLAT, AND IS INSIDE A GLASS SNOWBALL DOME!!!!!!!!!!!! BE AWARE!!!!!!!!!! BE FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TRUTH SHALL PREVAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D

[@jonevansauthor]

There's a story about Asimov turning up at a dinner party, to find two people arguing about the meaning of something in a book. He chimed in and corrected their mistaken assumptions, and they asked him who he was to dare disagreeing with their academic brilliance. "The author." was his response. Academics are always reading more into the blue curtains than the author meant. They've little else to do with their time. I remember an episode of Time Team where the archaeologists were theorising over how a guy ended up in a pit full of all these fascinating artefacts of bronze age Britain like pottery fragments and other genuine rubbish. They talked about sacrifice and burial traditions and stuff. My thought was someone stabbed him, stole his gold, and threw him in the midden to hide the body since carrying it out of the hill for to hide it would be physically challenging to say the least. Literature wonks love to do the same thing. And yeah, Christianity has nothing to do with a) the morality people claim is somehow Christian and nor does Judaism for that matter and b) nothing to do with LOTR. Any morality in it was worked out well before those religions, and they lifted their ideas from earlier philosophy and religion. Then people refined it all over and over again for about a hundred thousand years before Tolkien.

[@turkeygod6665]

@@jonevansauthor "The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision." Direct quote from the big man himself. In this case, yeah, the author outright states catholicism plays a heavy hand in the symbolism of this book, but a lot of people try to ignore that. Personally, I think christian symbols and themes are fascinating and should be used more in media. Like really, NOTHING?? I can at least understand the argument that the christian elements aren't that huge, but really nothing? Theres a single creator god, his angelic child who rebelled against him and seeks to corrupt the earth, and quite literally the corrupting nature of the ring is HEAVILY christian. That even angels, such as gandalf, are not immune to its corruption (Aka, falling for sin, such as Lucifer, an angel who sinned against god.) Even if some of these may be argued to be just general fantasy story ideas, since almost all fantasy comes from LOTRs, thats a moot point. Because Tolkein certainly couldn't have taken it, because he fundamentally changed the entire trajectory of fantasy with his book based off his beliefs. It really shouldn't be that surprising, considering Tolkein's faith after all.

[@KasumiRINA]

@@jonevansauthor Tolkien was pretty open about being devoted Catholic and trying to claim that instead of his literal religion, he based morality on some unnamed random mysterious ancient alien earlier philosophy nobody heard about is a HUGE stretch. Judaism and Christianity are also clearly distinct. Gollum tried to kill Frodo and Sam. In Jewish faith, the eye for an eye principle would have been rightful. But in Christianity, you are taught to love your enemy and show mercy. Which Frodo does. Then in-universe God's hand guides Gollum to steal the ring and drop it. Literal divine intervention followed by main hero showing a clearly Christian virtue that is in a conflict with all other Abrahamic religions (Islam doesn't teach people to forgive without someone paying for their sins either.) This is just one of MANY examples of morality system, it's just less in your face in Middle Earth than it is in Narnia, another famous Christian book series... so yeah, you're the academic who tries to argue against the author here.

[@shadyloc4018]

Im so glad theres someone else out there that was so utterly disappointed with the history channel for this. I have been a fan of tolkien since 6th grade language arts class in 1995. I remember when this was coming out in the 2000s and eagerly anticipated its release. Just to be so let down. Great video and am a new subscriber because of it

[@Etherman7]

I have read Tolkien's work twice, once in elementary school and again in college. As a child I loved the fantasy elements and was confused by the bittersweet feeling the end gave me. As a young man who had experienced loss and death, the books took a whole new life for me and the ending was so much more meaningful. I should read it again now that I'm reaching my prime, see how much more I relate to Aragorn or Theoden. Tolkien put so much work into the world that I always find something new to relate to.