Jesus' Dionysian ORIGINS WIll BLOW YOUR MIND! | Documentary

[@MythVisionPodcast]

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[@jackricky5453]

What sources are you using for the symbolic analog to the eucharist in the Dionysian religion, I feel like the connections about cannibalism are very general and drastically different symbolically. I can't really find much on that pre-Christianity. I'm only finding good connections from sources like the Dionysiaca, a Homeric Greek epic poem written by a Christian, Nonnus of Panopolis who also wrote the Metabole, a paraphrase of the Gospel of John prior to writing the Dionysiaca. Thats a pretty direct link, no?

[@rolivier79]

I’d love for you to have Brian Muraresku on the podcast and take a deep dive into the wine. 🍷 🌾

[@coliv2]

Christians apologists will always say: Jesus is not a pagan god because it has a different name/origin/color, etc. But this is an anachronistic idea of gods, that works only in the modern world! In the ancient world (where Christianism stated), if you have two gods with similar powers, backstories, and rituals, you already know they're the same god. That's how, for example, the Greeks knew that the Roman Jupiter is the same as the Greek Zeus. So a follower of Dionysius, when he heard about Jesus, would just say: Oh, this is Dionysius who appeared for the Jews! This is how people would become christians.

[@coliv2]

If you read the gospel of John, you’ll see they’re talking about Dionysius. A god that produces wine and has a strange connection to fig trees, this is Dionysus.

[@jessknauftofsantaynezvalle4111]

To push against those who follow Freud, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." The same can be said of the fig tree event. The account is not in John's Gospel which was crafted, likely deliberately, to have more parallels to Dionysian themes. The cursing of the fig tree took place, according to one of the early church commentators, as response to a farmer who selfishly taking fruit from his trees along the side of the road that was meant (according to the gleaning laws) for travelers and poor people. The fig tree was a symbol of Israel. For sure, the Gospel of John is loaded with Dionysian parallels. Philo of Alexandria called the Logos allegorically the "wine-pourer" in one of his writings. The Dionysian coinage of Jesus resting on the donkey is fascinating. For confessing Christians, Bacchus (imperfectly in a broken manner) prefigured the coming of Christ as the true vine. Jesus clearly fulfilled Dionysian symbolism for an expectation of golden age in many accounts. The story at the wedding of Cana being the most important. 
 The temple of Jerusalem itself, had Dionysian themes. For example, the Mishna and also Josephus describes the first century temple in Jerusalem as having gate doors being 149 feet high and 24.5 feet wide. It had golden vines above it, from which clusters of grapes hung as tall as a man's height. The Jewish rituals involved harvest Dionysian like dancing (note King David's dancing) and the pouring of wine on an altar as a way of expressing worship. The reason why John’s Gospel have these parallels is that it was deliberately written to be a “spiritual Gospel.” Since Ephesus was a major center of Bacchus worship, it would make sense for selective editing to take place where Jesus’ miracles & discourses would relate to those from that background.

[@coliv2]

@ John’s gospel in fact contains reference to a fig tree, that was the place where the disciple Phillip (a Greek name) was found by Jesus.

[@jessknauftofsantaynezvalle4111]

@@coliv2 Thanks. I was thinking of the cursing of the fig tree, which is a rather strange story. Ok, so Nathaniel, who was under a fig tree, was from Cana. So, there may indeed be a deeper layer of synchronicity. After all, it is likely something memorably spiritual happened while he was alone under the tree. Buddha is also said to have achieved enlightenment in 528 B.C. while sitting under a fig tree. And perhaps he literally did. Archetypes, tropes and synchronicity are universal experiences for people in many different cultures and contexts.

[@matthewkopp2391]

In the Gospels in general there are references to Dionysus (wine), but also Apollo (the Light), Demeter (bread), Poseidon (capable of calming a storm on the water) and numerous other Greek gods and Heroes. But you also have philosophy references especially in John Heraclitus (the Logos as the imminent divine), Pythagoras (counting of fishes), Socrates (the philosopher wrongfully accused and sentenced to death) etc.

[@francoisjacquin1378]

​@@matthewkopp2391​​Thanx. Very interesting... But, please tell me, is John Heraclitus : Heraclitus, the philosopher ? Why " John " ?

[@Machine9000]

Man I welcome this in my notifications. Tired of the politics videos...

[@Jaggerbush]

Someone was on the losing team 😆 🤣 😂 😹 😆 🤣 😂

[@jmc8076]

@@Jaggerbush Same was said on Nov 2020.

[@Mr.FuzzyDingo]

​@@Jaggerbush normal citizens will never be on the "winning" team

[@djsfunhouse.]

Trump wins🎉

[@iwannabethekid34xc]

​@@Jaggerbushthis is very low intelligence discourse. Is that what politics is to you? Some sport? You should take it a little more seriously if you expect to be treated with dignity on the subject.

[@benjaminmajors7962]

Derek the number of subscribers speaks for itself but reading many comments I thought I’d offer my two cents of appreciation. We are all at varying levels of deconstruction so of course you get those who miss the plot point, as some comments suggest. But if anyone with an internet connection can easily confirm the content, it just seems silly to criticize rather than follow Lavar Burton’s advice: “don’t take my word for it!” This and all of your videos are an unprecedented resource for getting clued into data we just wouldn’t know about outside of scholarly circles. I love how you aggregate the scholarship and deliver it to the masses since much of it is not written in trade books. The videos are an effective way for us to learn the content without getting lost in the weeds. Just as you’ve surely experienced personally the “ah-ha” moments as you delve deeper into the genre, we are certainly experiencing them on our end as you deliver them to us on a platter. Can’t thank you enough.

[@skylark5249]

I want to see an episode that explores pre Islamic belief systems in Arabia and the origins of Allah and his connection to Yahweh.

[@mdug7224]

I know I'm just some stranger dude trolling comments, but come on! When are you (and Neil) going to do a PhD!?? These presentations are gold!❤

[@annajohansson7116]

I have never been religious, and did not grow up in a religious home, so to me it was always mystery why people followed religions. That has made me very interested in the history of religion, and I love this. 🙂

[@asmrharmony412]

Hail Dionysus! May he bless us with freedom and joy. I love seeing these types of theories!

[@TheArthead]

I think Hesiod wrote the Dionysus and Greek mythology story in 700bc after hearing the Babylonian creation story called Enuma Elish written at least 1000 years earlier. The Greeks copied everything from Egypt, Babylon ,Persia, summeria. which were one or two thousand years ahead in story telling and art. Then came the Roman Empire who needed to combine all the gods into one to stop the fighting over different gods . And so created Jesus, made up of many already existing and ancient stories. Way too many to cover but the main ones are Egyptian, Horus , Osiris,Isis story, Babylonian enuma elis.Scholars say copying stories was common back then.

[@gritch66]

You dont include Seth in the main ones? Or he simply doesnt exist anymore?

[@AaronJensen92]

You are not giving enough credit to the heebs in this equation. They went underground in Rome after the fall of Judea setting up Christianity as universal Judaism for gentiles

[@william6223]

Gosh, the Outliers want to be recognized as equal. They are overmagnified. I am holding a node down within the whole. I am sure these 2 are doing their work too Maybe, Someday, The whole truth, Shall be known. All lies vanishing Clarity existing Humans being.

[@Karatop420]

That's just because you don't know the individual stories, lol. They didn't copy their sacred stories from foreigners, lol. They evolved from common ancestors. It's built into their languages, so why would they need to copy anyone?😂

[@SonjaStroud-mu6vi]

Thank you for OUTSTANDING research! I have been a JW for 24 years and let me tell you this information is a hard pill to swallow. But I am looking for TRUTH. Lol search ...and you will find. Knock...and the door will be opened!

[@d000d-z9p]

I prayed to Jesus with tears since 1987. Always felt like he hid from me. Starting to think he wasnt even there to hear me

[@dmichael100]

He wasn't other than as an idea.

[@extemporaneous4545]

He wasn't. And when you realize neither he nor his "Father" are coming through for you, you're not obliged to keep praying to them. By doing so, you're just betraying yourself, and you're not here in this world to betray yourself. It's all a matter of connection. If you feel the need for divine intervention, explore other religions and other gods. The difference between the worshippers of all other religions except Christianity and Islam is that people of other faiths just quietly go about communicating with their gods by themselves, because they are sure of their truths, and they feel no need to forcibly preach and proselytize to and convert those who do not believe in their dogmas. All other religions also have no problem if you use aspects of this or that religion to chart your own spiritual course, taking what you need when you need it at that particular point in your spiritual journey. Only Judaeo-Christianity and Islam are all or nothing, "if you're not for us you must be against us" religions.

[@RobBanks14]

​@@extemporaneous4545what are the best KZbin channels to find truth about ancestral European religions?

[@sharnachristina7504]

I cried, i begged, i pleaded, i bargained, i abandoned my faith but im telling you this, seek Him with all your heart and you will find Him. Its not until i abandoned mainstream christianity and communed directly to God without being religious, God called me home by name, in a dream and its Jesus who was there to greet me. I have to share this because I gave up on God, i nearly changed my faith but I sought God with every ounce of my being, above food and family and love and wealth and He came. I won't let anyone think that He does not come to collect his faithfull cause He does. Seek and ye shall find. Your looking in the wrong place. I believe we have been mislead by the book, that's what Jesus came to tell us, that we got it wrong, His message was distorted but its my duty to tell you that the Almighty God exists, messiah means messenger. The period of my life when I was in the most turmoil was when i turned from Him, now Im back my peace is unmatched, I fear nothing, for thou art with me😊

[@raycrossley5398]

Jesus was nothing to do with us he was a human being born with the soul of God When Jesus died God died , ending the covenant God had created with the Hebrews . The main reason for Jesus being born on earth was to end the law base covenant God had created with the Jews God knew that in 700 years not a single Jew could keep the law. When Jesus died God died and the covenant was finish from then on any humans, who were a Jew or a none Jew , a gentiles , a christen, who believe in God when they died went to Paradise.

[@monus782]

As a former devout Catholic ever since leaving Christianity entirely I’ve wondered where exactly the Eucharist (that Catholic apologists love to emphasize) came from and why would Jesus tell his followers to consume from it regardless of whether it was literal or a metaphor. I’ve had an on and off interest in modern Paganism since then and after reading about Mary in particular I’m increasingly convinced that her story absorbed elements from virgin goddesses like Athena and perhaps Isis as well. It’s a fascinating thing to ponder about where the beliefs I used to hold on so dearly came from.

[@AJ-iq9ng]

Thank you for your thorough work! I learned a lot.

[@monicaballyurban5786]

All religions, faiths, beliefs, and ancient practices share common stories because their all talking in allegory about the exact same thing: the human experience and the path to take with our mind and body to enlightenment. Once you realize this, it all makes sense. Same old story repeated over and over again, to keep the teachings alive through time. Culture and society changes continuously, so the tale has to be rebranded to keep up with the times. We are all human, so of course we all have the same basic anatomy and all these stories are explaing the steps one has to go through, in order to reach a state of mind where you can connect to the divine i.e. the source of all creation.

[@ironhorse1096]

I am feeling lately like a bird caught in a net. Like someone in Johnny Cash's song saying, " I see men like trees walking, I'm beginning to see." And why did I read recently when searching for truth that C.S. Lewis made a statement about "When myth became reality."? What did he mean I wondered. I've been wondering if the good news is fake. I was told by my mother that I thought to much. And the 1st question about God that I queried my pastor with as a young girl was met with, "We don't ask those questions. Once I told a doctor as a young woman having emotional difficulties that I had always been looking for the answer. He said there wasn't any. I was stopped. That couldn't be true, Jesus was the answer I was told in the Bible. When I asked my non believing therapist one day a theological question that I had no answer for as a Christian he said, "Why don't you ask Jesus?" I am 75 now and I have always been seeking truth. In my life truth has come around very slowly. I think because I was taught from the beginning to doubt myself and constantly asked by my mother, "Are you sure?." Up until the past several months I started to let go of the fear of losing God's love like I feared losing my mother's love if I made her angry. I have never been able to wrap my mind around the idea of hell and have looked forward to going "Home". But being threatened by it if I didn't truly believe the bible as Gods infallible word made me disturbed and has always made me uncomfortable in sharing the "Good News." I have held myself to a higher degree of judgement than anyone else. Until recently. I told God "I can't do it any more." It is all to confusing and I have over the years tried to erase some of those lines that didn't work to write ones that did. And it seems to be unending the amount of lies I have believed. I have heard bits and pieces of exposing these insights into the Bible over the past 25 years. Usually in some book I picked up looking for truth. Usually putting it down because I thought maybe it was blasphemy. I still don't know exactly what I believe but I know that if God is the Truth as I expressed to my fundalmentist friend who questioned me, he doesn't mind me asking for it and seeking it. As I listened to this podcast I can say, as an old term I would often hear from my mother, "I was floored." I want to "Keep Climbing Higher and Higher", as I wrote in a poem when I was 17. But I think I am going to be brought down many more times by realities I have never seen or heard. My goal has always been peace and love. I was not a "hippie" in the 60's although we were all exposed to those thoughts. I now believe I was actually an original. I still want high ideals in my life and to realize the real meaning of my favorite verse in the Bible, " You shall know the truth and the truth will make you free." Thank you for revealing more truth. I know that the God of all creation knows and believes and so do I, that I am capable and able to rise to greater heights still.

[@monicaballyurban5786]

​@@ironhorse1096❤

[@danronken6071]

@@ironhorse1096 my imagery of you is that you are standing outside of this world, in the solar wind, looking for the truth! My search has been, just assuming, very similar to yours. I keep coming back to just one concept. And this will sound stupid and redundant. What is good is good and what is evil is evil. Is Paganism, Judaism and Christianity good or evil? They are both! Paganism was humanities mind awaking to reality. Its development and capture by manipulative individuals and groups led to it's corruption. The population understood the corruption, with new elites arising, rejected the evil and tried to keep the good. The people only know what the are expose to and drag all parts of the previous system with them. Initially, the good system works for the benefit of the population and is eventually captured and corrupted again. It is just humanity looking for good (morals) and the cycle continuing down through the ages.

[@monicaballyurban5786]

Love your brilliant insight of how good morphs into evil by the elites, then the masses keep what was good and transform it into the next belief system, and then all is repeated...

[@evanspenneberg549]

Thanks!

[@jennahudson3420]

Thanks!

[@Darisiabgal7573]

Derek are you becoming a member of the Baccanalia?

[@yeahnaaa292]

Derek, your audio is superb.

[@jamesgrosrenaudjr812]

You have a great story telling voice. It keeps me watching .

[@charlielima9080]

Dionysus is the 12th Olympian (I.e. the last to enter Olympus)/Pisces. A homage to the Age of Pisces (in the Great Year). As Abraham (father Ram) is to the Age of Aries, and the golden calf is the Age of Taurus. Hence the feeding of the multitudes with 2 fish (with either 4 or 5 loaves depending on the gospel). The fish in Pisces represent the sun/moon (male/female). The four loaves - the fixed zodiacal signs (the cross), or the five - the other Gods/planets - Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn. This contradiction reconciled via astro-theology.

[@SquiddlyInk]

Very good connection - it always ties back to astrotheology. How could it not.

[@ancientflames]

Reading into a context that isn’t there. Astrology regarding the zodiac as we know it today, is a very recent concept.

[@matthewkopp2391]

Pisces is also referenced at the end of John, but also the counting of the fish references Pythagoras. And the specific number 153 references the vesica piscis ratio (Jesus fish) which was the first lesson in Euclid’s elements as to how to construct an equilateral triangle. Interestingly I remember reading of an early Christian Burial in Egypt where they found the person buried with two books. It was one of the canon gospels and Euclid’s elements.

[@charlielima9080]

@@ancientflames not sure I understand. The reference to 12, moonths, zodiac,tribes, gates, brothers, disciples, apostles, stars, 12 labors etc. The common thread for all ancient religions is astrology, the evolution over 2,000 years is a given. To my knowledge the Babylonians developed this even further back. The names may change but the object(s) remains the same.

[@chetgaines1289]

glad to see you picking up sponsors!

[@The_Raven_River]

nah playa. Compromised integrity. Business and academia do not mix, but people seem to think otherwise.

[@chetgaines1289]

@jeranismisashillasisjtolan dude this is youtube

[@jamesgrosrenaudjr812]

This is like comparing star wars and space balls .

[@exillens]

Good one lol

[@gyro_masala]

I am so grateful to you for helping us remove the fear of being tortured for eternity simply for seeking knowledge. An epistemology built on blind find can fall apart simply by reading a history book. The divine has no need to threaten or to bribe us to seek the truth. Discovering the deep mysteries of the Ancients shows that the divine has been with all of human traditions way before the Monotheistic monopolies

[@kariannecrysler640]

I needed this after the election. True things are comforting to me

[@Happynappyroots96]

Derek, your channel has helped me so much on my journey. Leaving religion hasn’t been easy at all but knowing this and realizing Christianity is just mythology based makes it easier for me. It’s so sad how we’ve all been deceived, Keep up the great work ❤

[@TheAvg_JACK]

I continue to encourage you to put adds in your videos. Your content & research you save us from is worth much more than just watching an add.

[@26beegee]

I will love it when Christians finally accept the roots of Christianity are Greek/Roman. A mystery religion in the classic pattern. Their god and their savior are just as real as Zeus and Dionysus. Get over it Christians! I did and it set me free of superstitious and mythical thinking.

[@The_Raven_River]

I think Christians realize the Rome connection 😂 kinda literally impossible to miss when the head of the church is in Rome. The point is that it goes back much further than Greco-Roman culture.

[@colleenshermer2017]

Humans love to tell stories

[@colleenshermer2017]

​@jeranismisashillasisjtolair goes all the way back to enki and enliln

[@colleenshermer2017]

Thats why its called roman catholic. And catholic means universal​@jeranismisashillasisjtolan

[@Jesuslordoflords-y4m]

I believe in all my heart that you will face the Lord Jesus Christ one day

[@baruch2511]

INSANLY GREAT, BROTHER! ...I'm jewish, who once upon a time was converted into evangelical "Messianic Judaism" as a clueless, non-religious teen, went than to a South Western Babtist Bible Seminary in Germany, than left Christianity, because of many points, which were pointed out in this video and became a devouted chassidic orthodox Jew for many years... and than eventually after some years and many courses in University on psychology, philosophy, sociology, natural sciences etc. I started to doubt severely on all those religious concepts. Since a couple of years I distanced myself from religion. Thanks for your insights and your precious endeavor to "spread the word" ;) of ENLIGHTENMENT!

[@Borneotek]

u're one of a kind, not many jews get to escape the by the claws of Torah..

[@baruch2511]

@@Borneotek ...same true regarding Quran, New Testament etc. Essentially all religious systems where one becomes a truly devoted follower. More years in it - the more difficult it becomes to distance yourself from it without suffering mental breakdown.

[@Borneotek]

@@baruch2511 that is correct, when you have 3 different religions with similar story in the book one must logically think that it does not make sense..

[@PsychesMuse]

AMEN BROTHER!!!!

[@fotosynthesis8865]

Christianity is Globalized Paganism, with some outfit, mascot and team song changes.

[@thomasprislacjr.4063]

Were the OG Pagans as violent though?

[@fotosynthesis8865]

@@thomasprislacjr.4063 its like both teams hit hard, but one seems more honorable

[@RobBanks14]

Seems like it is for Goyim to worship the Jewish god. In Alexandria, Egypt and many other areas were heavily influenced by Hellenistic

[@Jajaffu]

@@fotosynthesis8865 May the mist surround you.

[@fotosynthesis8865]

@@Jajaffu and you.

[@Mr.FuzzyDingo]

I love how Christian's only "evidence" of their faith being absolute is "but the Bible says..." even though there's way more actual historical evidence that almost everything in the Bible is plagiarized from Summerian texts about aliens and/or ancient Greek & pagan stories. It's like trying to convince a 5 yr old that Santa isn't real just because you're parents told you he was & they saw a drawing of him & his reindeer in a coloring book. 🤣

[@subharmoniccicada612]

The Santa Claus story it's image originated in New Amsterdam now new york. Everything were created in U.S.A " The Superman, the Spiderman, the Batman, the Robin, the Game of Thrones but people in the world knew they created the rebellion that is why Abraham Lincoln has a decree of " Emancipation Proclamation " U.S., Russia attended in the Berlin Conference but Russia he just attend he never grabbed the land nor enslaved the Africans. In return the Supreme Being give his power to become a great knowledge to the scientist of Russia and China. 🎇

[@thomasprislacjr.4063]

The Torah's tale of Moses is just Sargon of Akkad's origin story from earlier sources.

[@subharmoniccicada612]

@@thomasprislacjr.4063 How the ark of the covenant transported to the Philippines. When a Filipino woman ( now a days) queen of Sheba give a gifts to King Solomon of 4,000 kilograms of gold ( 1 Kings 10 full chapter) and quantity of spices. In return King Solomon it's just a futile for him to offered " O.k. take what you take what you can see inside my Kingdom "( 1 King 10 : 13 ) and she returned to her country with her servants. In 1 Kings 11 : 9 the Lord appeared to King Solomon twice. 1 Kings 11 : 11 He lost the value of the covenant and the decrees ( understood it include the shelf ). 2018 a house maid saw a structure on top of Mount Zion via spiritual vision. A messenger of the Elohim was ordered to build a temple, a billionaire his heart was touch by something decided to shoulder the expenses. Video of the temple : OPHIR CELEBRATE FEAST OF SHOFAR 2023 Notch E - Channel The Ark still hidden in secret cause Russia kept busy fighting with Ukraine. 🎇

[@comparedtowhat2719]

@@subharmoniccicada612 Huh? 🤥

[@colleenshermer2017]

Yep. And superman is real because he is in a book. Same thing with Christianity.

[@Diverse_Interests]

This opened up all the interconnections only people who love history would know to anyone. Plus I liked how there are questions in here that make you begin to think of how this all would be seen by the people whose beliefs and sorties were being adapted, blended and repurposed. It shows change and evolution of ideas over time.

[@robertjimenez5984]

Everything that starts to exist has a cause. Christianity start to exist there for it has a cause. This cause must be a belief that those that created the Jesus myth knew. Yes, Greek mythology!

[@joemalone3099]

One has to admit ALOT of efforts and hard work (contents materials video /sound quality)you SIR put on your videos..no wonder top academic scholars trust and come to your show.❤ your channel

[@TK421-53]

Well, maybe it wasn’t the Olympian setting, but the in your face transvestites that triggered people. Let’s not pretend this wasn’t pushing an agenda. Love your work, this comment is not meant as criticism. I am actually in awe of the volume of quality work this channel keeps publishing. This is when YT shines brightest.

[@meatloafhead]

Anyone help (destroy or add to) this theory of mine? I’m combining a little Neil and Ammon… What if the Greeks wrote the Septuagint from scraps of Hebrew at the library of Alexandria, stories from oral tradition of hebrews along with criminal records, they wrote it down as a way for the world to watch out for these pirates and kidnappers and their crazy criminal ways, later on the hebrews took this as a good historical account and pushed it everywhere selling it to anyone as the only god around.. later forming a monopoly on religion while burning down every other trace of religion they could find, waiting for the world to forget the old gods and only worship by force the new mono-monopolistic god?

[@Simon.the.Likeable]

Always ask "Cui Bono?" It was Greek speaking Hebrews who wrote the Septuagint/Tanakh. Composition was not a single event. Rather, it was a transmission between Kohanim and scribes to produce a cohesive text (a fan fiction in the modern context.) The Oral Torah/Talmud evolved in lock-step with this text while a ceremonial regime was also developed. By the time the Temple was destroyed, these texts and practices were very appealing to Jew and Gentile alike. The exclusivity of the religion was not for everyone so the Noahide Laws were developed in tandem with the mitzvot.

[@gritch66]

I think you should read about Amon in adition to Ammon

[@jessknauftofsantaynezvalle4111]

The question becomes: Did Jesus, aware of Dionysus, set himself up purposely to bring about a literal parallel to him in space and time history? Did he purposely come to, among other things, to fulfill tropes related to the most compelling aspects of Bacchus and other mythological expectations of the golden age? Or did early Christians write fictional history so as to make stories and motifs to elevate Jesus into a more powerful deity? I have two videos on this subject from a Christian perspective on my channel that might be of interest to those watching this. One is on the “Mythology of Wine, Cana & Higher Criticism” and another is “Bacchus & the Wedding of Cana.” From a Christian perspective, there is no conspiracy. God knew exactly what he was doing when he stirred up dreams of the good, the bad and the ugly about Bacchus and the personification of wine. An example of an early Bacchus/Dionysian parallel in the Hebrew Scriptures is the Genesis vine & wine prophecy of the coming of Shiloh (i.e. the Messiah) in Genesis 49:11 which runs as follows: “Binding his donkey to the vine, and his donkey’s colt to the choice vine, He washed garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes. His eyes are darker (i.e. ink blue?) than wine, and his teeth (i.e. while smiling?) whiter than milk.” Christians down through the years, especially in the wine making monastic wine communities, have composed fan fiction mythic poems and stories based upon classical Bacchus/Dionysian motifs. The dominant thought for those engaged in writing about the spirituality of wine was that Bacchus in his family friendly mode was an example of pagan inspiration pointing to a coming age of abundance. As modern example there is C.S. Lewis, who writes in his “The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe” writes about how ”the Faun… began to talk of… Bacchus himself, and then the streams would run with wine instead of water and the whole forest would give itself up to jollification for weeks on end.” Bacchus also appears at the end of the book about Prince Caspian. Lewis writes about him appearing at a victory celebration taking place before an important battle. It's a great read.

[@katrinadiller6929]

How do I access your vidio's

[@MistaBaZ]

You should look up Ammon Hillmon. He's a quirky guy but a well studied classicist in the ancient Greek, and he sheds a lot of light on details pertaining to Jesus. From what I've been able to gather and understand of from him is that the word "christ" had a different meaning in the ancient Greek. Not one having to do with a messiah or saviour but a pharmaceutical term. He suggests Jesus was following an old pagan ritual which is the trope of death and rebirth. The christos puts the user in a psychedelic state in which they believed they spoke to gods. But it also brought the user to death. And then the anti-christos is applied which acts as an balancer, rather than an antidote. It doesn't sober the user up but negates the negative effects of the christos, essentially bringing the person back to life. I'm probably explaining it poorly. Still kind of studying it myself.

[@decades5643]

This is only a question for people with really bad critical thinking skills. It's a lot more likely that the early Christians were using tropes from their Hebrew scriptures and Hellenistic stories about hero-saviors and applying them to Jesus than this being some kind of bizarre plan by God. The latter just sounds like cope.

[@jessknauftofsantaynezvalle4111]

​@@decades5643 Actually, I think it's more likely that the writers of the gospels were reporting on actual testimonial claims of those who were followers of Jesus. The custodians of those documents (i.e. the early church leaders such as Papias, Ireneaus, Clement of Alexandria, etc.) considered the meaning and interpretation of these works as being historical and not fictional. Ross Clifford, in his work “The Case of Eight Legal Apologists” comments on the book, “The construction of deeds and statutes” by 19th jurisprudence writer Charles Odgers. Clifford points out something pertinent to legal canons of interpretation, under that of "User under Ancient Documents": “In the case of very ancient documents, there may be great difficulty in deciding on the meaning of the words employed, and in that case evidence of usage is admissible to show what was the meaning attached to the document soon after its execution by those interested in its interpretation. There is a probability that at least some of these persons would have insisted on a proper interpretation of the instrument, and if a certain interpretation has been adopted and acquiesced in for a long period of years this affords a probability of its correctness. This is what is called ‘contemporaneous interpretation’…”

[@matthewkopp2391]

Scholars always mention Q a sayings Gospel. I think we know what Jesus said. And Jesus initial followers were interested in Jesus the philosopher. The Gospel’s are narratives of what not what he historically did. I don’t believe they were intended to be historical but theology. And the references to Greek gods is logical in a Hellenic era, post-Ptolemaic Kingdom, when syncretism was practiced, and Platonism the highest philosophy. The Greek Gods of the era to an educated person were not literal or anthropomorphic but principles. The Gospel references to Greek Gods seems to (especially in John) say that Jesus has all of the principles of the Greek Gods and the greatest Greek philosophers and Greatest Jewish prophets because as Justin Martyr said Jesus is the full embodiment of the Logos so therefore he is all the virtues in one. In fact at the end of John it basically says you would write volumes of all the miracles he performed. Because the point was he is the fully embodiment of virtues as the Logos, the imminent divine. In a way the writing is one upmanship. You think Apollo is great or Dionysus was cool well Jesus had all the virtues of all the Gods because he is all the Gods as he is one with the transcendent one God. Justin Martyr actually says this about Heraclitus, Socrates and the writer of the psalms. And says well they had access to the Logos but Jesus is it. One upmanship.

[@hueym2196]

Jesus, Dionysus/Persephone&Demeter, Jacob, Moses, Inanna/Gilgamesh, Krishna, Osiris/Isis/Horus, Othin/Frigg, Freyr/Freya, etc they are all the same concepts. All these astro theologies are one and the same if you read the symbolism.

[@colleenshermer2017]

Cain abel. Jacob esau, enki enlil, Jesus satan, horus set. All brothers

[@gudrunvenema9759]

Great presentation, thanks!

[@jessknauftofsantaynezvalle4111]

Derek, there is a lot more that parallels to Jesus with Bacchus themes than even your skeptic friends have yet to notice. For example, If you have ever seen vineyards you will occasionally notice how trellis systems have crosses for the poles where the grape vines run. In the first century it looked similar. The big difference was the grape vine trellis systems had reeds, instead of wires, supporting the vines. In contrast to most of our modern trellis systems (e.g. VSP, Scott-Henry, Geneva Double-Curtain, etc.), Columella (R.R.4.19) and Pliny (N.H. 17.178-81) write about trellis poles and speak of just one cross bar per pole. Reeds were used (we use wires) to support the vines. While, to be sure, the ancient Romans used a variety of trellis systems that did not involve crosses, the poles with a cross bar was considered the ideal. Philostratus, the Athenian (270-240 AD) writes about how in the Bacchus temple were, “Wine-presses, with all things belonging thereunto, made of gold and silver, and dedicated to Bacchus, ….” Archeologists have yet to find these wine related artifacts. But it would not be surprising if they find a cross with grapes vines around it as a symbol of worship. If you ever come back to the Christian faith you can buy a cross with grapes around it and proudly wear it as a sign of mythology leading you back into a “praeparatio evangelica” view of faith.

[@andremcqueen81]

Always great content

[@TheHankGriffin]

What is the source of the "Theophilos to Luke" letter? ChatGPT keeps telling me there is none.

[@benitomuniz3194]

THANK YOU FOR THIS WONDERFUL MATERIAL. HELP TO CLEAR SOME BELIEFS

[@zxys001]

A group of diverse individuals, a renowned art historian, a young linguist, a seasoned psychologist, and a reclusive writer, are brought together to decipher a mysterious ancient text found in a "Hebrew Bar".

[@itspandatime]

Maybe Dionysus is older than the Greeks... In Linear B, “di-wo-nu-so” (interpreted as “Dionysos”) associated with fertility, vegetation, and possibly the mysteries of life and death-a god who dies and is born again.

[@erpthompsonqueen9130]

Thank you. Watching from Alaska. 🤔

[@stevepriest2763]

Now I know why the gospel of John is so different.

[@Dooshbaggio]

Egyptians did ALL OF THIS FIRST. Ahem carry on...........

[@Karatop420]

Nah, Dionysos is Orsiris in Egypt. That means som3body did it before these cultures existed as seperate entities. Besides, Egypt had an older pantheon, too. Its got ptah and knum and those guys.

[@Enddrugwar]

True but we're talking about Olympics and dionysius has more connections to jesus then ancient Egypt gods

[@Karatop420]

@Enddrugwar woah, bruh. You didn't watch the video. Dionysos IS one of those ancient gods.

[@trentlytle7289]

It wasn't until the Ptolemaic influence that Egyptians started practicing their religion outside temples. A mystery cult to Osiris would have been an hellenized Egyptian religion.

[@Karatop420]

@trentlytle7289 mystery cults predate written history. They aren't a hellrnic thing. Just because a God is a sin of another God doesn't mean it's a newer God. Great mother cults go back to the stone age. Neolithic farming myths.

[@Corvyboi]

This is imho your best work yet my friend, a master class!

[@ericw872]

Brother. As a Christian, it’s not the sacrilege of Jesus. It’s thinking that a bunch of drag queens and an obese white woman depicted as gods that’s offensive.

[@zinedinosmanovic5192]

Why?

[@The_Raven_River]

Christians being offended by Dionysus is deliciously ironic

[@toddfulton2280]

I would go as far as to say the YHWH was Dionysus or that Dionysus was YHWH before El took his name and portfolio (authors/redactors of OT). I would go so far as to say that the earliest Christian movements recognized this, possibly even originating with some guy who was possibly stoned to death. Symbols tend to get taken up and abused for power, especially when there is nothing grounding a symbol in reality, and it relies entirely on faith.

[@edwardblanc657]

Sounds like you have no idea who YHVH is. Did you read his story, or just ignore the entirety of the old testament and it's complete brutality?

[@toddfulton2280]

@edwardblanc657 Yes. When multiple dieties are rolled up into one, that one diety might seem a little bipolar. If you look at evidence outside the bible, El was originally the father deity to the Canaanites, and Ywh worship was brought in, most likely from the southeast. Ywh's symbol was a bronze serpent. Who do you think the serpent in the garden was? Iao. Cursed to be hated by men. Erased from the bible and replaced with Kurios. The rest of the book is El taking Ywh's name as his own, or rather, the authors/redactors taking the power of the symbol of Iao and giving it to El. As in, Isra El, Micha El, Dani El, Gabri El. etc, etc... Also, Dionysus wasn't all peaches and cream either.

[@Karatop420]

See, the issue here is transliterating Aramaic letters as YHVH. It's nonsense in English. How tf is that accepted as a proper transliteration? So, if i sound it out phonetically 8n English, it.....yhvh? Man, hell nah, they playing games w/ the scriptures😂. The original phoenician and paleo-hebrew alphabet, the one ours is based on, is ιαω, or Iao. So yes, Iao is another name for Iacchus.

[@toddfulton2280]

@Karatop420 Older text uses YHW, not YHWH.

[@Karatop420]

@toddfulton2280 you're missing the point. Older texts don't use the English alphabet. Ofc, they don't use an Aramaic alphabet, either. They use paleo-hebrew. However, paleo-hebrew is pheonician, and they used iota, alpha, omega in the dead sea scrolls. Turning that into YHW is just bullshyt from the back alley. Don't nobody use a friggin Y for an iota anywhere else on earth but here. We even say "I'm the Alpha and Omega" but still can't figure out that it literally spells Iao.... ...it's so you don't know how to pronounce it. If you have the regular phoenician letters, it's pretty straightforward to pronounce it, and youll know exactly where it came from. Therefore we gotta use an alphabet that ain't got no vowels for a name that's all vowels, we get 3 English letters that ain't even a sound.🤣

[@joshblack9182]

Really impressive content. Highly watchable and easily listenable if doing other things. Superb work.

[@lucianagray9183]

Stellar, thank you

[@trentlytle7289]

Lets force Andrew Tate to watch this Clockwork Orange style

[@interqward1]

Yeah fine, but as for the 2024 'Olympics' (and THAT'S an insult to the Greeks anyway) - Dionysus was never ugly AT ALL.

[@mattiaswennerhult9451]

Oh, come on. That scene in the Olympics was not happy happenstance. They knew they would piss Christians off and they wanted to. I have to say, it's truly amazing, the work you're doing. The quality of your productions and contents is second to none.

[@johns4545]

Just Wonderful !!!!

[@Sunny-qd4jq]

Great video.

[@OQUENDO1968]

This is beyond amazing! The things i learned lustening to this makes me come again to get a full understanding of just how insidious and devious the 'fathers' of the catholic church were in creating the new religion called Christianity. The total destruction and annihilation of humanity can attributed to this cult. 11/12/24.

[@jmc8076]

53:37 Enjoy the work of more modern scholars/researchers but also ancient ones. PS Just finished. Well done. I kept pausing to study details in art images. It was confusing at times which only supports the video. How many Christians know the full history or mythology of holidays? No, sadly not much has changed esp views/roles of women in many religious eyes.

[@itspandatime]

The Orphic version of Dionysus-Zagreus-also depicts him as a god of death and rebirth.

[@richardober8373]

Do you have a list of the books you cite? Very interested to read.

[@Critical_Explorer-vw5hy]

Fascinating

[@elenivargis126]

Absolutely fascinating comparison of these two gods!! Ps. I think if Paris 2024 organizers portrayed the Dionysian tableau with more elegant actors & dancers, maybe there wouldn't have been such an international outcry?

[@dontpanic4694]

Thanks

[@JC-vq2cs]

So glad you made this vid. Could hypersensitive and otherwise ignorant protesters have made Dr. Dennis MacDonald's point any better?

[@Theprofessorator]

With how much you use the Elder Scrolls music, I really think you should start a second channel going into Elder Scrolls lore and mythology. I feel like you would have a field day. The way the races argue about the in-game gods is so on brand for the discussions you get into.

[@helenaconstantine]

There are examples of the blood libel against Christians in early Imperial Roman writers, but not Tacitus or Suetonius. Fronto (the architect who was M. Aurelius' teacher) supposedly mentions it, but we have only the word of Christian authors for this.

[@helenaconstantine]

at 0:54 Dionysos is the one leaping out of the chariot; Silenos is the one with the snakes.

[@youtubewatcher2006]

1:26:54 Are these real quotes from Luke's and Theophilus' letters? Where have these letters been found?

[@ingerjohanneasting7862]

Can this correspondance be verified? Which Theophilos would this be? Where can I find more information about this? It's hard to believe that these quotes are real.

[@benjaminmajors7962]

No they aren’t real. Derek was just using this fictitious dialogue as an aid to help teach the content. He mentioned beforehand that this exchange is fiction but I think it had the desired effect of getting the point across, bringing together all the esoteric into a more relatable narrative. After hearing the initial exchange I went back and confirmed the letters were a literary device.

[@ingerjohanneasting7862]

@@benjaminmajors7962 Thank you. i have studied the writing of the gospels for some time and it strikes me that the writers were quite scholared in litterature and religion. And it's very interesting to see how Jesus changes "depending on which gospel you read" (Bart Ehrman). We'll never know the real Jesus. As for the scenario in Paris OL, I think the designers of the opening seremony must have known that they stirred up religious people's feelings, or they were stupid. Was it really necessary on an occasion like OL?

[@benjaminmajors7962]

@@ingerjohanneasting7862 Given what we've seen of past opening and closing ceremonies, weird seems to be part and parcel to the production - except for Beijing 2008. The 2012 London Olympics for example seemed to hint at COVID in so many ways, as if they knew something of the future. Looking back it seems obvious but at that moment, who could have known. However, on the more seemingly religious oriented content, its nice to not be triggered anymore by content that seems to tread on "sacred cows" that we can now clearly observe as historically derived man-made mythology.

[@juniusluriuscatalus6606]

To a never-believer who doesn't come from similar sensationalist culture (true, we've been going that way) I must say it's painful to see or finally realize how polarized or absolutist your culture actually is. I might be really interested to know what consequences it had when you left the religion and how you got over it - if you did, religious trauma is a real thing? Production: really good; you articulate well with pleasant voice and editing and visuals is really high; the script is always good. Good job.

[@alirubaii4839]

You have Clement of Alexandria and Justin Martyr both having written the “Come, O madman…. Cithaeron… Lambs uttering solemn rites” passage

[@helenaconstantine]

at 1:50 you correctly identify Dionysos, whom you will notice bears no resemblance to the figure of Silenos you identified as Dionysos in the opening video tableau.

[@katiehughes828]

I's love to read the source material with the letters between Luke and Theophilus

[@rolivier79]

I’m confused: I can’t find any historical letters between Luke and Theophilus. I went back to the transcript and saw you used the word “imagine” when introducing the letters. Are the letters you are reading your work of fiction or are they historic and I can find them translated somewhere?

[@small_shifter]

Bruh, it's just a way to portray his point, it's a literary tool in the video. Like when in movies the whole movie is someone telling the story to someone else.

[@cinaedmacseamas2978]

Yep, another born-again evangelical bites the dust.... Like Dr. Ehrmann. A bible only born again focus will not sustain you. I can only imagine how much you despise St. Paul, Saul of Tarsus. Not for how protestant and especially reformed bible thumpers have utilized his words since Billy Sunday and those after him came up with a Roman road, but for who he was, as he existed then, and he became a fervent Christian and gave us the earliest writings we have. He is the antithesis to the apparent synthesis between Dionysus and Christian theology, especially how we are to receive Jesus by consecrated bread and wine, which you are alleging. St. Paul a closet Dionysian orgy participant! Who knew!!

[@DavidWilson-uf5mv]

Derek. Chaldeans is not pronounced with a “ch” sound it’s pronounced with a “k” sound. Good video though.

[@UpstandingCitiz3n]

Dude, I love your videos, but PLEASE drop the "WILL BLOW YOUR MIND" KZbin crap. It makes your channel seem way kess credible than it is and makes me embarrassed to share the video with friends because they'll say that I'm just falling for clickbait nonsense

[@Nona-jn3fg]

I'm late to the party but I'm searching for truth. I can't find any historic proof for these letters between Luke and Theopilus. Am I missing something? is this just ad- lib or am I missing something? Need help here.

[@solomonessix6909]

@2:22:05There is a reference of Dionysus becoming a God. He says, "kid you have fallen into milk". This is so strange and random, but it makes me think of the second set of 10 Commandments where it say. "Not to boil a kid in its mother's milk". I suspect a connection between the two references but have no Idea what it means nor where to start at the moment.

[@Corvyboi]

Burning off of the body should not be practised on newborn babies? Unless you are Medea or a Goddess?? Just guessing tho

[@NoWay1969]

Would these do better as small, more concise videos? I like long videos. I enjoy them, and I usually get a little nap as a bonus. When they get up to close to three hours, though, that's a two-napper. I enjoy the content either way. Just wonder if six 25-minute videos in a playlist might get more views than a two-and-a-half hour one.

[@knkn5049]

1:18:50 Derek, i would like to know more about this letter from Theophilus to Luke. Is it forgery? Or would you date Luke before 70s? Just today i was arguing about dating of gospels and person indeed showed me some Theophilus of ananas and, because he was priest in 30s, all gospels automatically were written by eyewitnesses almost next year after Jesus... and ofcourse Jesus was real prophet and prophesied destruction of temple... What's going on?

[@MythVisionPodcast]

There is no way to deal with all the other things mentioned in this comment, but the dialog between Theophilus and Luke is a hypothetical to help people see the literary genius of these gospels.

[@meatloafhead]

No one knows who wrote the gospels, Paul is the only one that’s real, he’s not til 50-60 yrs after.. I hope Derek answers this too😊 We have zero eye witnesses We have a gospel writer stating there were 500! The best we have is a stranger a nobody claiming things like witnesses were real.

[@knkn5049]

@@MythVisionPodcast hypothetical? You made it up?

[@helenaconstantine]

1:05 The film clip shows Athens, not Olympia.

[@zigzag-xx2yd]

Ok, so my next black cat will be named Dionysus! I've got one named Satan or aka Mickey Mouse already. Lol. Thanks, D!!! Always love your videos, bro!!!

[@westernbambino5410]

Last week YHWH was dionysus. This week. He is Yisus. I love it!!!!!

[@msbee2896]

When monotheism entered the stage… one god became a mixture of many

[@helenaconstantine]

1:10 The traditional date of the first Olympiad was exactly 2800 years ago in 2024 CE, not over 3000 years ago.

[@account-gp4sn]

In the immortal words of Nietzsche -- Dionysus against the crucified!

[@thomasprislacjr.4063]

When will people understand that the names don't matter. Our linguistic approach to these concepts confuses more than educates..... by design.

[@TupacMakaveli1996]

Blueness is interesting to many other cultural myths as well, for example Hindus. The Kalki avatar is imagined as blue. Dionysus and Jesus have similarities and Jesus is considered to be the last important person in the end times.

[@sparrowthesissy2186]

Either Theophilus or Luke allegedly referring to any gospel by the name "Mark" is an extreme red flag. Neither name Mark nor Luke was attached to those gosepls until Iraneus around 180 CE. Even if Luke is based on Marcion's gospel in the 140s, it's extremely unlikely Luke and Theo would be chatting about "two volumes" Luke-Acts and "Mark" 40 or 50 years later, and in a preserved letter.

[@colleenshermer2017]

All first century christains were jewish. Mark and Luke are not jewish names. The new testament written in Greek, not hebrew

[@sparrowthesissy2186]

I'm not sure why it makes so many Christians uncomfortable that some NT stories are fables to communicate an idea, when they can comfortably look at something like Balaam's talking donkey in Numbers and say, "Yeah, obviously people make little scenes up just to get a point across." So, did Jesus need to literally perform an item duplication glitch on a bread item 5000 times for you, the reader, to get the point that you should get together and feed the hungry? Is feeding the hungry not actually important if this miracle story was just wishful thinking about what a really cool guy would do, hypothetically?

[@helenaconstantine]

Dou you think that Christian authors like Clement might lie about what they call "pagans" and that the conflation between Bacchic terminology and Hebrew might be bullshit?

[@StephanieSoressi]

The wrong painting was reported. It was the Banquet of the Gods by Carlo Bellosio. You showed the Wedding of Pelius and Thetis FEAST of the Gods, which is similar, but not the painting they actually said they were referencing. Seems like those who focused on the blue Dionyses all figured it was the Feast, not the Banquet. That the god was painted blue confused people too. I figured it was that he was supposed to be a big old clump of grapes, and grape juice can turn your tongue blue. My boys think it must be a reference to the Transformer, Blue Bacchus. But do French kids play with Transformers? I wondered if it had to do with the Greek flood myth -- where Zeus is so angry at mens' wars that he sends a flood to destroy them, and then a goddess's tears in sadness for the destruction become blue flowers. I saw a comment that they were trying to point out how ridiculous war was with "Blue Scrotum Guy", and that is the only thing I could guess was the connection there.

[@davisuehara3528]

What in the Helen is going on here?

[@uncleanunicorn4571]

I have to start wondering about Yahweh having a son in heaven, not born of a goddess when Zeus is both father and in a sense mother to Dionysus. Connections?

[@LadyBeesTOYBOX]

Just need to make the Apostles about 10-12 years old. 😉

[@sabrinanascimento5248]

Jesus wanted us to eat Him.

[@gregc2077]

This may have been answered somewhere and I'm not an Etymologist, has anyone ever compared the names of Dionysus and Jesus? We know the letter "J" didn't exist so in Latin, Jesus's name would have been similar to Iesus. Now here comes the stretch I've personally been hunting...Dionysus, DionYSUS, YSUS, IESUS. As language evolves and passes through cultures and accents, a sound and pronunciation can and does often change. Has anyone looked at if the name Jesus (Iesus) an evolutionary change from Dionysus?

[@gregc2077]

I should have expanded on my thought more. Dionysus... Dion ysus...Dio ysus...Dio Iesus...Dio = God, Iesus = Jesus. Did Christianity take the name Dionysus and break it down into the divinity of God Jesus?