JEWELED LOTUS & MANA CRYPT BANNED! Our Reaction Commander MTG EDH Let's have a Respectful Convo

[@IHateYourDeck]

FYI: Friday we go back to our normal release of gameplay videos. We don't plan to keep making these types of videos, but too many people in the community demanded we help give them a voice by making and releasing this video.

[@jakepetruolo1847]

It really is a shame that rule zero isn't just the standard that the format is heald to. I don't care what card it is they were all made for the game of magic the gathering and should be playable sure there are some cards iona is one that turns off a color completely and it would suck to have in commander and that's why it's banned outside of that the whole card pool should be up for grabs it a game to be played and have fun doing it I've played shitty mean decks and guess what my friends have let me play them then I switch to more fun options. Rule zero is all a casual format needs

[@Dragon_Fyre]

@@jakepetruolo1847It is mainly an issue at an LGS where you will have pubstomper players that bring a CEDH deck to an EDH game. For the most part, rule 0 works when playing among friends (or maybe they need new friends 😅).

[@haroun1760]

💯% agree, dumbest thing that happend in magic thus far, but luckely my play group will keep playing with these cards. We dont mind the rules committee anyway

[@patriciaboggs8882]

What if the RC announced a major ban far in advance? Like this current one, they say that Mana Crypt, Jeweled Lotus, and Dockside Extortionist are all legal for now but in a year they are going to ban them. It wouldn't be such a shock to everyone and give people plenty of time to decide if they want to sell or play with them. Like standard rotation. Would people be nearly as upset then? Yes, it would still affect the market but probably not nearly as drastically. I think most people would agree that Nadu isn't in the same category and would be fine to ban immediately as a design mistake.

[@GreatSephiroth42]

I agree with the rule zero conversation. However I've tried to have these talks at lgs and it's amazing how unwilling people are to have a conversation. I'm not arguing for the bans just sharing my experience. With that said if I'm forth coming about my decks and you aren't I will 100% walk away from the table if your playing "unfun" cards and being shady.

[@TokenAsian-MTG]

One of the best responses ive seen yet to this Ban! Hence why this is one of my favorite shows about MTG and Commander!

[@LeviClay]

Lynch, IHYD has a place as one of the best commander shows out there. There’s no reason you guys should adhere to any of the RC banning, as long as the table are cool with it. More people need to take your philosophy, it will make the game better.

[@bigdaddyhedgehog]

I myself have picked up Mana Crypt and Jeweled Lotus recently. Haven't even gotten to play them yet. If only I knew they were going to be banned I would have waited instead of spending almost $400.

[@MazemindTom]

That sucks man, I’m sorry. No single game piece should ever cost more than a couple of bucks. This is unfortunately what happens when capitalism turns a card game that people love into a stock market. It makes the game less accessible to its most loyal players, and helps rich a-holes get even richer.

[@obadijahparks]

Dude I almost got another mana crypt of the new art. I could have traded in the two that I already owned too. I am a big fan of magic, but I hate the way wizards, and the commander comitee, have chosen to handle things for the last few years.

[@obadijahparks]

​@MazemindTom capitalism isn't the problem, capitalism is what allows the poor to reach a higher standard within that system.

[@foreal7712]

@@MazemindTom it's always the poors and lazy people calling people rich assholes. Sure there's rich people but what about workers that save or those with extreme luck that pulled? Get a job you peasant.

[@DarkYuan]

@@obadijahparks Re: capitalism 😆

[@Swaggscribe]

This is why proxies should always be part of commander. Hay you don't have/cannot afford Crypt of Lotus. Well just get a proxy.

[@jamesellis5942]

Not everyone likes proxies dog. I personally dislike when someone shows up with either a deck full of proxies that I can't identify from across a table or someone who shoes up with a 15000 dollar deck worth of proxies.

[@Swaggscribe]

@@jamesellis5942 That's easy for WOTC to fix. Just print the cards. Make high-end copies for those who can afford them. On Commander at Home #27 here on KZbin, JLK plays with two metal MTG cards that were gifted to him by one of the hosts of Commander at Home. WOTC could totally do that, like 24K gold laser engraved cards. But they would rather print less of a good card to drive the market price up and make those of us that are broke have to proxy to be able to play those cards.

[@kedge]

2 things on proxies. You are not supporting local shop/wizards/artist/etc... you are playing a fake card and a lot of times people use them as place holders. And it's not that people couldn't afford them and it's their fault. In reality if you seeing this show there are times mutiple mana crypt are out. If 4 people playing it, it's fine. But now, you just ban 4 people's cards out of nowhere. That pod was fine and would of being fine. Rule zero is the issue .

[@DocHudson420]

@@jamesellis5942then don’t allow those people to play. And only allow people around the same power level to play… what’s the problem?

[@Coolhand118]

@@jamesellis5942I mean that’s the main part why people proxy cards. 3/4 cards that were banned are $50-$200. Now if you want to use those cards for your decks, would you want to spend up to $350 jeweled lotus mana crypt and dockside? Now you can just not use them or proxy them. But if you intend to be elitist about people proxying cards and wanting to play the game then why stop it?

[@danbrookfield1338]

Mana crypt is very different to Sol Ring. Personally I don't mind one very common piece of fast mana, just for that bit of spice everyone can have fun with. I've Mana Crypt was printed more this would have been less of a big deal.

[@GallantLee]

But I want to play mana crypt in my coin flip deck

[@andrewprice135]

Yeah, I just bought a borderless jeweled lotus for 150, and now it's a paper weight.

[@dreadedevil4055]

It's not even that. A single magic card would be terribly ineffective at keeping a stack of papers anchored down.

[@PterryDactyl88]

a $150 paper ninja star

[@TrueMiz]

You... don't know how to do rule 0?

[@foreal7712]

@@TrueMiz It's the RC that doesn't know how to Rule 0. They don't respect it and think players are socially inept so they need to be coddled.

[@RM_3D]

@@TrueMiz regardless of rule 0 or not the value of the card has dropped if he were to re sell it.

[@coleamburn1048]

You're the best. I pulled crypt in the 1 collector booster i bought for CoI. My most exciting pull of all time. The Ban killed my soul.

[@BroDudeDudeYeahBro]

play the children's game for fun, not cringe capitalist profiteering. thanx

[@foreal7712]

@@BroDudeDudeYeahBro collectable card game. Pokemon has its own market, is targeted at kids, but is extremely profitable. Also socialism doesn't work.

[@MyDarkestSins]

@@BroDudeDudeYeahBroI thought half the fun of playing said children’s card game was collecting and cracking pacts. Guess I’ll find I different game to play that doesn’t have price tags so front and center. Like who could be excited to pull a chase card only to be told “you can’t use that”

[@poisonedsugar0181]

This is why I'm a patron of IHYD, some of the best games I've played have been on this discord. Everyone has fun, everyone talks about our decks. I can tell you if you jam a game with me lotus and crypt are good with me.

[@gam1ng_pr0d1gy7]

I just want to say that almost your channel specifically has encouraged myself and therefore my entire playgroup to have a rule 0 before every game. Even recently, I went so far as to type up a guideline for power levels within our playgroup, outlining what we feel is okay and not okay to play at each different arbitrary power level that we all agree on, which I think is awesome. My playgroup would be nowhere near as balanced as it is without I Hate Your Deck showing every video what that rule 0 conversation should look like, and we're now so well equipped and understanding that we build our decks with the power level that we want to play them at in mind, following our own set of rules. Thank you Lynch for showing what the rule 0 looks like in your videos, because we really appreciate it!

[@ulcer_brisket_1340]

I don't agree with the RC's decision to ban them, but I respect their decision and understand their reasoning. It was kinda a kick in the balls to ban all of them at the same time, and as someone who owned more than one of these cards, I'm pretty upset. I'm also glad to hear a lot of other people's opinions on the matter, and I'm glad to see you joining the conversation

[@Nick-wd3he]

The RC is just a scapegoat. If we believe that Hasbro would allow a group of self proclaimed governors over a format to make financial decisions of WOTC product, we're being naïve. No chance. There's just no chance. This doesn't just impact the singles market, but also the sealed product that those cards were in. WOTC has already dumped most of it's product off to distributors, so they are not hit by this at all. Some believe this move was deliberate and intentional by Hasbro/WOTC to print other staples in the commander format within the next 12-18 months.

[@guarddog315]

Well said. You listened and encapsulated the thoughts of all the fans! This is how it's done!

[@dylanmanuele5762]

@ihateyourdeck because of rule zero is the only reason I'm not giving up mtg. But I'll tell you what, proxies will be my only way of going in the future. It financially hurts especially with cards at this price point. Cheers! Always enjoy your content. Keep it up!

[@MintyMagicMTG]

100% that people don't talk to each other anymore. If it's not through the phone then it doesn't happen. What's crazy is when I interact with people in public it seems to brighten them up. Not stuck on socials looking at how everyone else lives. I rule 0 at my LGS all the time. It's so easy. I think it's so funny that wotc is "developing" a "tool" to fix rule 0 lol

[@plantbasedstrength8590]

Well said

[@craignilson1908]

Can't agree more with everything said here! Thank you for this video and your thoughts! I never wanted to say #ihatemydeck

[@gabrielllamas6229]

I've been playing magic casually for 12 years. Opening a neon crypt was the best experience I've had to date. Over the past year I set out to collect all 6 neons. Didn't know there was a rules committee for commander. I'd never played any of the mana crypts in games. I just thought they looked cool and would retain their value until reprinted. This ban killed my collection. I can't look at magic cards without feeling terrible. Think I'm done.

[@benjaminkaye5119]

Great video !! Thanks for your input and feelings. Lost a lot and I worked my butt off to acquire my cards. Looking forward to teaching my son the game as well for I love the cards , but I hate your deck lol

[@fl4tgamer639]

Glad to hear your opinion, as for my group, we have decided to ignore the banlist from here on out, as they are elected to represent and govern a game they did not create. We are even discussing other cards that aren't ban worthy to come up with our own list.

[@weeklyweeks7545]

As someone who’s recently moved I mostly play with strangers. Problem is some people are dishonest about the power of their deck during rule 0. Shocking I know, but some people lie. I wish it weren’t so but that’s the reality of the situation.

[@johnnyborbon5085]

Exactly this. Unfortunately, rule 0 is amazing when playing with an established playgroup, but in an LGS playing with random, "accidental pubstomping" happens way more often than It should from what I've seen and read. It's a lot easier to just rule 0 Lotus/Mana Crypt into a game than it is to rule 0 them out

[@victormanjarinsala2253]

I understand this happens, but if more people "shamed" this kind of behavior by just not playing with the pubstompers, problem would be over. When the bully has trampled over everyone and nobody wants to play with them, they'll need to think and react somehow. Keep rule 0, keep talking, shame the liars and isolate them.

[@Saltpounder513]

Ask em to lay out their deck before you play so you can see what's in there.

[@SmooTalk]

This is why I 100% support your channel brother! The first 1 1/2 mins is facts!! I love your show and out of them ALL ill stay on your channel for being real with it!!

[@WarriorFromV4LH4LL4]

They should make a distinction between casual EDH and competitive EDH. I don't understand why they have the same banlist. For casual EDH I think it is necessary to curate what kind of experience casual should be. This is important when people play with strangers at the LGS or in a new group. Many believe fast mana belongs in CEDH and not in casual.

[@laurenty6325]

Re your last point, that's a totally fair perspective; one that I think really dovetails with your previous point about curating the experience you want. I think those decisions take place : 1. In deckbuilding. 2. At the table before the game. It's on us as players to discuss expectations before the game starts - more evenly matched decks make for a better game. Getting there takes work but gets easier over time.

[@asamataua]

Think about all those LGSs. Damn.

[@pppricher]

100 % agree ! Problem was never the cards... it is rule 0 that must be enforced. Let players play with whatever they want to have a good time

[@BosSoxFan15]

Before they banned these cards, if a person asked me can I play my jeweled lotus, mana crypt, and dockside, I would've said yes. I hate these cards and none of my decks are built with fast mana, but I respected that they were legal (not banned) and that person may have spent a lot of money to purchase them and to me at the end of the day commander is for fun. Now I'm glad I can say no and be able to reference the ban list as my reason.

[@THEEStickyxbootz]

You could have said no when they weren’t banned. Don’t use a ban as an excuse.

[@BosSoxFan15]

@@THEEStickyxbootz But they were legal in the format. How can I tell someone they can't play something that isn't banned?

[@tideturner707]

Thanks for your take on the bans. My LGS has people who make ublikely that you will wcer get a pod that is ok with using these cards again. It is nice to there is a place where I might be able to play with these cards occasionally.

[@klasickj0k3r]

Thank you for this video. I love the perspective of adding the fact it should be a conversation. I really think it's a true monetary move from the rules committee. It is very unethical that they have channels promoting new sets. They waited for reprints to happen, promoted them in their channels got paid for it. As a sealed product. Then banned them, to crash the outside market to feed new sets.ts a huge conflict of interest. They cant have it in both ways.

[@AdamPearsonVideos]

Measured, reasonable and honest. I salute you sir

[@jimbo3]

very good video. i feel the same way about these bans, ignore them and have fun with friends.

[@Lokie488]

Why I love your channel, need more content creators like you

[@sethvoNhaNdorf]

Yeah man, I agree! We're adults! The worst damage is the division this is causing in the community - let alone the financial aspect. Don't forget, sol ring "defies the laws of physics" ...

[@CptSaveABro808]

This guy gets it. The financial devaluation is my biggest issue/concern.

[@tobintripp1144]

Thank you for having a smart take and good conversation about it. People have the right to their feelings, but lets try to be constructive.

[@xerofate4667]

First and foremost I really enjoy IHYD videos. Look forward to every new episode. I 100% agree with tanking the bird. On the other hand, this was a tragic misstep. It paints a very clear picture that only "List" cards are safe. But are they really? Fellow MTG players, just proxy the expensive stuff, folks that have way too much say have absolutely no interest in protecting card value.

[@Toothbresh]

Creating a point-buy or budget system for Commander (EDH) deck-building can be a great way to balance the power level of decks while still allowing players to include strong cards. Here’s a breakdown of how you might design such a system: 1. Define Point Categories The first step is to assign point values to cards based on their power level. You can create several point tiers to categorize cards and set a cap for the total points allowed in a deck. Here’s an example of how the point tiers might work: 1 Point: Utility cards, weaker cards, and most basic lands. 2-3 Points: Moderately powerful cards, common staples in Commander. 4-5 Points: Strong staples, highly synergistic cards. 6-10 Points: Powerful win-cons, extremely potent cards, infinite combo pieces. 15+ Points: Game-breaking or oppressive cards, cards that are frequently banned or discussed for bans. 2. Set a Point Cap Each deck can have a maximum of 100 points (this number can be adjusted as you see fit). This cap includes the Commander itself, which should also be assigned a point value based on its strength and impact on the game. Example: If a deck is built around Najeela, the Blade-Blossom, she might be assigned 8-10 points, leaving 90-92 points to spend on the remaining 99 cards. 3. Assign Point Values to Cards The next step is to determine the point values for individual cards. You can assign values based on several factors: Card Efficiency: Cards that offer a lot of value for a low mana cost should be assigned more points (e.g., Sol Ring might cost 6 points, Mana Crypt 10). Synergy & Combos: Cards that enable or complete infinite combos should cost more points (e.g., Dockside Extortionist might cost 8 points, Food Chain could cost 9 points). Game Impact: Cards that have an immediate or overwhelming effect on the game should have high point values (e.g., Cyclonic Rift might cost 10 points). Meta Considerations: Cards that are commonly used in competitive EDH (cEDH) might have higher point values to prevent them from overwhelming the format (e.g., Thassa's Oracle 10 points). Here are some example point assignments for popular cards: Card Name Point Value Sol Ring 6 Cyclonic Rift 10 Rhystic Study 8 Arcane Signet 3 Dockside Extortionist 9 Command Tower 2 Force of Will 9 Birds of Paradise 2 Eternal Witness 3 Smothering Tithe 9 Thassa's Oracle 10 Lightning Greaves 4 Demonic Tutor 7 Mana Crypt 10 4. Balancing the Commander The Commander should also contribute to the point cap, as some Commanders have stronger effects or synergies than others. More competitive Commanders should have higher point values, which forces players to balance the strength of the Commander with the rest of the deck. For example: Tymna the Weaver (very competitive) might cost 10 points. Omnath, Locus of Creation could be 8 points due to his ability to generate massive value. Ezuri, Claw of Progress might cost 5 points as a solid but not oppressive Commander. 5. Determine Point Distribution per Color If you want to create more nuance, you can tweak the point values based on the color of the deck. For example, mono-color decks could get a discount since they are more restricted, while five-color decks might face a slight penalty. 6. Allow for Adjustments Over Time As the metagame evolves and new cards are printed, you’ll need to revisit and adjust point values. Consider community input, your own playgroup's experiences, and popular Commander formats for guidance. This also allows you to address power creep and other balance issues. 7. Testing and Refining the System Playtesting is crucial for fine-tuning the system. Here’s what you can do: Build a few decks using the point system to see how the distribution feels. Do some decks feel too strong or too weak? Invite feedback from your playgroup. Let other players try the system and suggest changes to the point values. Consider how different archetypes are affected. Does this system unfairly punish certain archetypes, like control, combo, or tribal decks? Make sure each archetype can compete fairly. Example of a 100-Point Deck Let’s say you’re building a Commander deck around Korvold, Fae-Cursed King (9 points). You’ll have 91 points left to spend. Here’s a possible breakdown: Sol Ring (6 points) Smothering Tithe (9 points) Skullclamp (4 points) Crucible of Worlds (5 points) Arcane Signet (3 points) Tireless Tracker (4 points) Avenger of Zendikar (7 points) Mana Crypt (10 points) the 25 remaining cards are 1-2 points each. Total = 100 points. Final Thoughts This system encourages strategic deck-building, as players must balance powerful cards with lower-cost staples. It also helps curb the use of oppressive or broken combos while still allowing for powerful plays within a balanced framework. These numbers are purely for the example, not what I actually think they should be, and maybe the number isn't 100, but you kinda see what I'm getting at?

[@MysteriousSoulreaper]

This system already exists, it's called Canadian Highlander.

[@T_1.5]

The thing is for me, Lotus and Crypt and Dockside were never cards that made me go ‘uuuugggghhhh’ when they’re cast. It’s usually more of an ‘ooo’ because I’m excited to see what’s going to be done with them, crypt and lotus are ramp cards, I’m not mad that someone else is ramping when I can just use my printer to get the same effect.

[@metaversenerdz1663]

I know you said you want to get back to only providing game play content. With that said, this was one of if not the most nuanced and intelligent comments that’s been provided on this topic. Lynch, you should consider adding more commentary videos. Voices like yours are great for the community, and help bring people together instead of creating division. I Hate Your Deck would likely grow much larger if it expanded beyond gameplay. ❤🙌✌️

[@jeffnosdivad3080]

Nadu i get, the rest are complete horseshit.

[@Dstinct]

Rule 0 does only work with friends. If I walk into a shop with fully powered decks, I want to play them. Im not bringing my collection to the shop to try to build a deck to cater to what a pod feels like playing. This is completely different than a regular playgroup where you know what everyone is playing. Commander doesnt work properly outside of the kitchen table environment for which it was designed. The idea of EDH tournaments is a joke.

[@shawn9613]

I agree

[@stevendefeo8424]

Then you don’t know how to rule 0. Sounds like you don’t want to rule 0 because you want to pub stomp people. That’s not a nice thing to do

[@thebaron897]

Bring different power levels of decks you want to play and talk to your opponents before picking a deck? Idk seems like a pretty easy solution to me

[@ItzSwarley]

@@stevendefeo8424 This is the exact guy that Rule Zero was intended for. If you are above the tables PL then ask to move tables, or go play Cedh at that point. High Powered EDH is different than Casual EDH.

[@Dragon_Fyre]

In regard to rule 0, you clearly do not understand how it works as others have commented. You have basically said that discussion is not an option because you are unwilling to compromise at all. That’s a ‘you’ problem. You cannot just expect to sit down with only one level of power and expect that everyone has to just accommodate you, because you think that you are special. In this case, rule 0 is for you to find out who at the LGS does want to play at a high power level rather than pubstomping those who do not. In regard to an EDH tournament, a tournament is by its very nature competitive, so I would somewhat agree. The only way that players would not basically be playing CEDH in a tournament is where there is a control in effect ie. It is an EDH tournament where you play your choice of the new pre-con decks.

[@teadeity363]

My main issue with this ban, is the reasoning behind having "5 mana on turn 2" as the main argument for the ban. Ancient tomb and a talisman, sol ring and an arcane signet, these things also give 5 mana on turn 2. Why is this the only reason they are giving for the ban??

[@TeaMate08]

I mean yeah you can have 5 mana on turn 2 when you hit the perfect 4 cards in your opening hand or you just have 5 mana by hitting basic lands and lotus. It is not quite the same is it?

[@lordhypnosemperor]

Everyone always names Ancient Tomb and Artifacts but forgets all the green stuff -》Exploration, Burgeoning, etc etc.

[@SiphiliSx]

@@lordhypnosemperor Ban Rampant Growth!

[@Dutchking-88]

Best channel in MTG. Easy.

[@AgentVenomGaming042]

I'm so happy to hear someone talking about the ban with a level head. While the ban list doesn't affect me I do understand why some people are upset but with how some people are throwing fits like children and threatening the rc members is not ok

[@empurress77]

Yup nobody in our playgroup is gonna stop playing their Jeweled Lotus.

[@xsenit]

you are exactly right, this is my exact thought and im glad you shared it. good looks man. your awesome lynch

[@MrBdelaney]

I completely agree, and i literally just received two of these cards Saturday. I’ve been playing from the beginning and honestly , I still think I’m done. If they banned sol ring, diffidently done

[@joshcuker5877]

Creator of Nadu: "this was made for commander." RC: "Not anymore, it's not. Lol 😂"

[@anthonyswift5357]

I canceled my 2 collector boxes of ixalan wen hurd mana crypt got banned,so stupid thx wizards

[@TheInfiniteGyre]

I agree 100% tbh I don't even see those cards that much in a lot of the games I played at my shop or with friends

[@Cadrala-zd1ev]

This and the prof have been the best takes on this ban.

[@DJJordanLee]

Giving warning wouldn't have made a difference. Soon as the talk starts about their imminent ban, the prices are gonna tank. No one sees Tabernacle or the other cards you mentioned on a regular basis but thousands of us see Mana crypts, jeweled lotuses and docksides warp games really unfairly. Power levels are always gonna be a topic for debate but the amount of times people play these recently banned cards against other decks that weren't expecting such a shift in power more than warrants the ban in my opinion.

[@IHateYourDeck]

Unfortunately I have seen this card multiple times. Some folks own it and like to play it.

[@DJJordanLee]

@@IHateYourDeck fair enough, respect your take anyway. We all play in wildly different metas.

[@lokifeyson]

The right take, appreciate your thoughts

[@Mr_Emoticon]

I have a copy of mana crypt that's sitting on my shelf that I was saving for a graphics card at some point. I used 1 proxy in one deck that was my only cEDH deck. And the cherry on top of this is all these videos I see I keep getting Magic the Gathering ads for new products I don't wanna buy now.

[@Nibiru_Truths]

I think Mana Crypt and Jeweled Lotus being banned came out of left field. However, I'm honestly shocked it took this long for Dockside, though. Especially with how quickly they banned Hullbreacher.

[@tastyrick]

Ban lists are for tournament formats only. Commander is explicitly against competition, and so a banlist can't apply because all casual games are always ruled by rule 0. I'm actually looking forward to trying out some of the other cards already on the banned list since there will be far more people out there who should let it fly now.

[@djrmarketing598]

What I think a LOT of people forget is you don't have to CHANGE your deck to play fair with a lower power deck, you can easily just mulligan an overpowered hand (I've mulliganed my Mana Crypt away when I've been playing with lower power decks).. Or just don't play it, keep it in your hand, save it for a later turn. I've died to crypt many many times when that 6 or 9 life really mattered in the long run.

[@rjblea2501]

I can see why people are mad, after they just spent $300 to obtain these cards just to find out they are banned and now the cards are going down in price.

[@bongzong9824]

Cassius got the same opinion. And you guys are right.

[@KressalakTheWolf]

Banning Nadu, sure yeah go ahead. But banning Lotus, Crypt and Dockside should not of for the reasons of them "Stopping fast mana" but not banning Sol Ring. Rule 0 fixes many issues even with strangers. Its as simple as "Hey I got X in this deck you cool?". Such a dumb banning this round.

[@Shamast3]

It was made more to limit fast mana than stopping it.

[@chexmix0101]

Do you really think rule 0 fixes everything? I’ve had too many games where people downplay there decks only for them to drop dockside combo, jewel lotus early etc and just snowball from there.

[@thetruth4654]

@chexmix0101 Nut draws happen, it’s down to variables. But somehow i doubt that you would comaplain if someone did turn 1 sol ring turn 2-3 ramp spells and then they combo on turn 4-5 with some kind of combo. Somehow someone nut drawing and comboing 1 turn earlier makes people go wild, acting like it’s outside the realm of possibility.

[@Kurofrope]

I brought a precon to an LGS once. Told everyone there it was a precon. Not a single person had a low power deck. They pulled out Gaia's Cradles, Mana Crypts, etc. Rule 0 simply doesn't work if other players don't have decks that can match. As for me, I've been playing a couple years and don't own any of these cards. I'd love a Jewled Lotus to make that new Valgavoth a bit more playable, and if anyone wants to play something like that and says they have Jewled Lotus in there, that's fine by me. Generally speaking, I'm happy to be rid of these cards. I think they should go further, and get rid of Sol Ring, Tabernacle, and Thoracle. It feels so much easier to Rule 0 a card IN then rule 0 a card out. Try going to your LGS and seeing if anyone there is willing to play a rule 0; no fast mana, no 0 cost removal match. Maybe you'll be lucky, but I wasn't.

[@CorruptedRifle]

Banning lotus was the most shocking to me, literally turned one of the most unique commander specific cards into an unplayable in EVERY format card. I was so happy when I pulled one from a box but I may as well wipe my ass with it now 😂

[@stayhomewarrior9854]

I honestly respect your views on this. Thanks for being a voice of reason. I truly believe the ban should have never happened, and I felt that rule 0 was dealing with these cards fine. Thinkg I hate your deck for RC 🤔

[@brandonharris9306]

The thing about rule 0 is I think it’s easier to allow an exception than agree on a ban and these bans are healthy for the format. Almost every week I play against a unique lineup from a pool of around 40 commander players. With that many players it is really hard to rule 0 bans but very easy to rule 0 exceptions. No one wants to sit down at the table and tell people what they can’t play and organizing that many people to get an official band list together is unrealistic and overly time consuming. It also puts added friction on players joining the group or learning Magic. Now they have to be informed of secondary LGS or pod bannings. There is also the question of what to do if they don’t adhere to or agree with the ban? I think it just leads to socially awkward situations. It’s much easier to have a conversation saying “I’m playing this banned card. Is that OK?”. Most of the time people will be fine with it and also it can give an indication of the table about the power level of your deck. Appreciate the RC for taking action.

[@mind_matter8358]

What we really need is a seasonal rotating Banlist. Jeweled lotus and Mana crypt combined with the moxes and lotus petal AND sol ring in one deck can seem overwhelming but if you for example have JL and MC available and ban the moxes then later in the year ban the first two and make available the moxes, then nobody is getting locked out of using their cards. This also helps to breakup problems cards with out stopping their use outright, like making thassa's oracle available but banning demonic consultation the first 6 months, then banning thassa's oracle and unbanning DC for the next 6 months. Plus if cards are only being temporarily banned the RC doesn't have to be so hesitant about their choices, while also not killing card prices since they still see play certain times of the year. Obviously certain cards will be outright banned like Iona or Shahrazad but unless they are gamebreaking on their own they should only be in the "penalty box" for a time not kicked out of the game. Of course all of this is only a suggeted banlist, nobody should be able to tell you how to play a casual game.

[@NZHC]

All the more reason why I'm perfectly fine with Proxies, if your not prepared to lose out on card value from time to time just grab your sharpie or printer bro!

[@chriswojnicki1205]

Every playgroup I've been a part of never cared of anyone played banned cards. I did follow the banlist personally but didn't care if others didn't, I just want to play. And even tho the guys knew I didn't care if they played those cards they STILL asked before hand. Rule 0 was always that easy. I don't understand the point of having a RC in a causal/social format but here we are. This ban broke me. They went too far this time. I'm joining the ranks of not following the banlist anymore in fear of what they may or may not ban next. Nothing is sacred at this point. Obviously if I ever play at a LGS, or an event, or even with new people who don't want to play banned cards I'll adjust where needed. I agree with your point 1000% that no one should be forcing their way of playing on other playgroups and I feel that's exactly what the RC is doing.

[@dgja16]

Why not make CEDH its own format and lift bans on certain cards? It's frustrating to see cards like Jewel Lotus, designed specifically for Commander, get banned in the format they're named after. It just doesn't make sense.

[@herpderp66]

WotC is taking over official tournaments for EDH. They use the RC ban list. There is no splitting off for cedh.

[@RIdeWerksInc]

Love I hate your Deck. They can band all the cards they want but I will play the cards I payed for unless the group decides other wise. Like you said there is no professional tourney for commander so what is the point of saying they are ban.

[@Mcweeny69]

Agree completely with this all, not a good look for Magic

[@nicolasfilippsen6900]

true honest talk, I agree with your point of view

[@HarleyLatex]

Good point ... love your explaination

[@NeiroAtOpelCC]

I really like the bans. I've played for 8 years, but don't own any of the newly banned ones, so the bans only help reduce the pay to win aspect a bit. I do understand that the value drop of the cards hurts, but from a gameplay perspective I think it makes sense.

[@johnnyborbon5085]

Nadu sucks, Dockside had it coming, it used to be true that it just scaled with the power level of the table, but that is just not true anymore specially with so many food/clue token strategies lately which are mostly casual. Regarding Crypt and Lotus as I read on Reddit: it's much easier to rule 0 them in than it is to rule 0 them out. Especially when not playing with established playgroups.

[@theredduke1275]

I'm a relative new player. I came from other cars games about 2,5 years ago. I spent about 30k the last 2,5 year on mostly cedh staples. My loss on this is not so great but this made me cancel my orders for the new set and im not going to buy magic anymore. Instead ill go to proxies and maybe but a single if i really love it.

[@komitadjimcduff8853]

Exactly, this now forces a rule zero conversation, which is not a problem, just ask, most people will be fine with it.

[@AlexSolaire]

I feel like this is a really emotional topic for some people, especially in this economy when you pay big bucks for a single game piece thats worth half your rent. For a Casual Player which EDH is mostly curated by the RC these bans are amazing, cards they never bothered buying anyway because of the price outside of a proxy. For CEDH this ban feels terrible even worse then MTG30 Release i understand that, but the Brewers of CEDH are great creative minds either they will brew some hot crazy shit with the restriction or we will have a CEDH banlist in 1 year both is okay for me. For LGS or Resellers this was the worst thing that could have happened, my sympathy for all the people that lost 100k and more with this, not the scalpers though fuck em.

[@ninjaofslo]

I’m glad I didn’t directly purchase any of the banned cards. I’ve opened all of them. I’m still upset about it even though I only used them in 2 decks

[@williamhenion3367]

Lynch, I agree with you. Not everyone is HONEST. Not everyone sees your point of view. Rule 0 doesn't work with everyone. You're looking at it through rose tinted glasses. Thats not how the real world is. I agree with you that the bans impacted a lot of people and should have had a warning BUT rule 0 conversations don't happen all the time and i am a huge advocate of it as well, but not everyone has the platform you do to be comfortable with it. Some people don't have that social inginuity to be comfortable with that rule 0 conversation OR they are dishonest about it because they don't like rejection. As fot the cards itself it alienates people who aren't financially able to afford those cards. If everyone would be able to afford it then there wouldn't be an issue but thats not the case. As a casual player who can't afford mana crypt or jewled lotus as soon as i see that card played it sucks the fun right out of me cause i know i don't have interaction that early in the game. Sure you can make the argument of put things in your deck that can, but those cards are expensive too. Its not just the cards banned, the cards that can interact are sometimes even more expensive or impossible to play that early on in the game. I love your content don't get me wron and if you guys use them in a CONTROLLED environment, all for it BUT not everywhere isa controlled enviorment so it makes sense to me at least why the bans happened. Mike love you man and love your conten, been a patron for a while, love seeing you guys get spicy, but it doesn't happen often like y'alls games out in the wild world. Sorry for the long post love IHYD and everyone involved!

[@doglove381]

I think this is a good wake up call to not have "investments" in cardboard and play it as a game and not the stock market. Just proxy things imo.

[@Minecraftgod1200]

Why i love this channel and you lynch if we ban these cards why not ban the rest. im using rule 0 heavy to use these cards for the decks that already have them. Proxy heavy dont let money or bans ruin magic for you, it's been great to not be restricted by rc. Love you man

[@TheM8]

The thing is people are not playing winter orb, or the one ring or blood moon. I have have seen alot of people playing play mana crypt. And on the jeweled lotus, they beged WotC to not print it so i was expecting it to be banned since the printing.

[@l337dta]

I bought a mana crypt 2 days before the ban, still hasn't arrived.

[@IndefinableNebulaCrystals]

may be this is the first ban attempt to reduce those cards you've mentioned. To not ban those all at once.

[@GooslingGames]

I think the issue is you have typically 4 issues in play with tule 0. You have the proxy no proxy issue, then you have the power level issues and between all of these alot of times you cant get 4 people to agree to the same thing. Plus alot of times people dont have other cards ready to swap in or kther decks to play that meet the other peoples criteria of fun and you just end up with salty hurt feelings. My pod has this issue now where some of us can spend more money then others. We dont all agree on proxies so we came up with our own yier system. We shared our decklists and had evwryone rank each others decks based on what they thought. From there we averaged out everyones rankings and bam we had a tier system for everyones decks. A tier decks only played against A tier.

[@a_rabidnun9817]

Amen brother. Rule 1 is to have fun.

[@movingcardboard8254]

Warning of ban wouldn't change anything. The value would crater on announcement of warning, so people who just bought would be in same situation

[@victormanjarinsala2253]

Time to offload Tithe, Rhystic, One ring... They're coming for your pockets xD

[@thatguycam1989]

When I decide to hate someone's deck, not the person, it's based on their hate cards/stax and removal options. Why call it "I hate your deck" and yet never play any if not most of these things?

[@Aaron-l3l6g]

Well Commander wanted to be the top dog in town and now that they are welcome to what the tournament players have been dealing with since the games inception.

[@reactivatedyt9788]

10000000% agree.

[@mrniceguy00987]

I'm pushing vintage commander (no banlist) after this ban as a highly competitive you know what your getting into fun creative way to play. I personally play tested this played 7 games in 2 hours and had a few stalemate and crazy effects it's fun for cedh players. Also proxies are highly welcome and encouraged. The rules committee does not care about all players and it seems to me that this banning was a direct strike against competitive play. The ban literally destroys a lot of decks in the meta of cedh only leaving a handful unburdened and pushes them to the top of the mountain no pun intended. So again I'm pushing for vintage commander as a new cedh alternative because even if we have a separate banlist for cedh there will still be a cedh in casual making it confusing go vintage all the way.

[@DarkYuan]

Lol yeah, "vintage commander" sounds like it could definitely become a thing. (serious)

[@GallantLee]

Yes! I hate bans.especially these. We are playing a game why remove choices for people?!

[@ice9ify]

I dont mind banned cards, but the consistency lacks here. But your point in the video is true. In the end, who cares. A bunch of people making decisions... cool but its not their table.

[@danielprivate8038]

This is the best take on the bans

[@JustABrokenToy]

I'm glad I didn't invest in any of these cards, but it sucks for those who did. Good point that you can rule 0 these cards back in, and some people may have even rule 0'd them out already. When the article with the reasoning behind the bans called out Sol Ring in particular, I thought that it may be a bit of the Streisand Effect. If other fast mana is banned, then why not Sol Ring too? The availability and ubiquity of it appears to be the primary reason it is protected from the ban list. I also agree that it can lead to unexpectedly explosive games, and I'd even argue that if they banned Sol Ring instead of Dockside that with some of these other fast mana artifacts gone, Dockside would be taking a secondhand nerf anyway. Not enough of a secondhand nerf to counteract its natural power, but that would have to be tested.

[@tdot8280]

Thats what im saying all the time. There's no place where the banlist must be applied. Rule 0 rules

[@The808andrew808]

This banning cost a lot of people $350

[@Wesley.Wilkinson]

It’s kind of weird they banned cards that were recently reprinted. Imo they should ban cards that aren’t easily obtainable.

[@jacobmccormick2632]

Other than our wallet this is why we have rule 0.

[@jezzholc20]

For me, I don't get to play powerful cards like that in other formats I play, so not being able in commander is rly sad. I played them in powerful pods and removed them in weaker ones. The power lvl problem always worked itself out in the lgss I go to within a few games. This definitely is going to keep me from investing in commander

[@Norwag]

Yeah, rule 0 is essential. While you can't go to an official event with Lotus or Crypt or whatever, nobody says you have to shred the cards. Talk to your pod. I recently put Nadu in my Ms. Bumbleflower deck and I talked to my pod, and they are ok with me keeping it.