Heaven's Hidden Catch | The Loss of Free Will

[@montecarlo4294]

Heaven always sounded so terrifying to me, even when I was a Christian. It's an inescapable prison where it will be one long church service and you have no choice but to worship the creator for all eternity.

[@jezebelvibes]

I remember having moments of panic over the thought of Heaven as a kid! I would quickly repress them because I didn't want god to be mad I was thinking that way.

[@avanm420]

"Celestial North Korea" Christopher Hitchens

[@Palmbeach33486]

Me too.😮

[@ianalan4367]

montecarlo4294 - You are more so describing hell than heaven. If communing in God’s love (and love of each other) for eternity seems like a prison then that is hell. For Hell is a state of one’s soul. “Condemnation shall come because some prefer darkness rather than light.”

[@stephenbonaduce7852]

Same. If Heaven was eternal CHURCH, I wanted no part of it!

[@x00p3]

Behold, I give you free will, so use it exactly as I command!

[@californiadoll6273]

Omg i busted out laughing lmao. You're sooo right!!! 😂

[@riseofdarkleela]

I lacked the free will to avoid hitting the like on this despite it being #70.

[@ianalan4367]

I agree He created us with free will. It most certainly is our choice to follow His commands or not, obviously.

[@dagg310]

@@ianalan4367 so a woman has the choice to marry me or not...but if she chooses not to, i lock her in my basement for the rest of her life. did she really have a choice? or would she end up marrying me just to avoid punishment?? it's not free will if u will be punished for not choosing what ur master wants u to choose

[@dagg310]

@@ianalan4367 it's not free will if u will be punished for not doing as ur told. so do we have the choice to follow his commands in heaven also or will we just be robots? and if u answer we will have the choice but will not have the urge to go against god, then i also ask , how did we end up with fallen angels ? u see, when u apply logic to all these flawed stories, the flaws come shining through

[@gmansard641]

Some time ago I heard a spot on Christian radio, a woman did not want to go to Heaven if her children would be in hell. The Christian response was not to fear, once in Heaven God would resolve all her concerns. Essentially, God would make her stop caring that her children were being tortured for eternity.

[@jeff946]

right, so are you not really you anymore when you are in heaven? I can't imagine how you would stop thinking or caring about any loved ones that are being burned for eternity.

[@MarceldeJong]

Ah yes that sounds like true "Christian love"

[@mickdonedee1]

If you ascend to Heaven with your personality and free-will intact the absence of Sin will modify your behavior to choose between Good and Good rather than Good and Evil. So, logically your choices are constrained by only good behaviors. So, free-will can only be exercised to do good in Heaven. What is uncertain is whether we will have knowlege as to the fate of our atheist friends and relatives. If our atheist friends are suffering for eternity, will we care or will we be unable to care about them?

[@IKARIANOFFICIAL]

@@MarceldeJong -Exactly. It's pretty scary when you think about it. But I look at it this way, it's actually impossible to love someone who threatens you with horrible consequences if you don't love them! So, in reality there are no Christians that actually love Jesus even if they've convinced themselves that they do love him. My Mom believes that Jesus will make her forget about me once she is in Heaven and I'm in Hell (where she believes I'll go). But she's so brainwashed that she won't let herself truly think about these things beyond the surface.

[@francelaferriere6106]

@@IKARIANOFFICIAL I'm so sorry for you, that's so sad.

[@sparkle_shinetime454]

As a child, one of the things that gave me crippling anxiety and fed my OCD was the fear that I might get to heaven and then accidentally have a bad thought & get kicked out. This whole religious construct is actually hell.

[@raycrossley5398]

wont happen. You can never get kicked out of heaven. You are a child of God you will be given a body design to exist in heaven. But you will also have the ability to return to earth or go into hell and then return Jesus said The gates of hell will have no power over you.

[@Michael-kf7gm]

@@raycrossley5398 That’s nonsense!

[@sparkle_shinetime454]

@@raycrossley5398 It was how I felt as a child. I now know none of it is true at all. I understand your beliefs as I used to hold the same ones. The truth about “God” is found in ancient lore and mythology. I wish you well.

[@DocNightingale-hp6zd]

@@raycrossley5398the bible says theres a literal second death, 😂😂wat r u talking about? If the gates of hell have no power, why is there a s3cond death, the lake of fire.

[@sarahjames505]

Ha Ha hell may be better then all thoughts allowed!

[@PatrickWDunne]

This is one of those situations where they can just fall back on the "mysterious ways" defense because they don't have an actual answer.

[@jezebelvibes]

If god is too mysterious to understand, he's too mysterious to obey. 🫠🤷‍♀️

[@samsoundsgreat4220]

@@jezebelvibes straight up facts

[@tobias4411]

Agree. "Whatsoever we [Christians] ask, we receive of him [God]" 1 John 3:22 (KJV) Despite loud slogans, this is a lie. Pray. Success? Yes... Praise the Lord! Hallelujah! No.... God works in mysterious ways. A game that God can't lose. He doesn't even need to do or say anything. People will always come up with "explanations" for his failures for him.

[@Specialeffecks]

@@jezebelvibes If he/she/it/they are so mysterious, what do theists think that they believe in?

[@HarryNicNicholas]

@@jezebelvibes just noticed your handle - great name. have you heard "jezebel spirit" from, brian eno? i have to say for a jezebel you're way too sugary sweet and well spoken. "wholesome" is the word that springs to mind over, well, the alternatives.....

[@memecity9849]

Imagine being in heaven all happy while your grandma's in hell baking pies without an oven

[@jezebelvibes]

😅🫠🔥

[@leafe-lu3jd]

@memecity9849 Idk why I got the image of Baba from the new hellboy movie. Also love your profile Pic, my best friend loves that guy and we even added him in a rp of ours forget which one but I think it was between Avatar the last Airbender or doctor who. I think it was ATLA because I think I remember us adding him into the cabbage guys scenes. Yes we didn't forget cabbages! Never forget cabbages!

[@vlastermaster]

LMAO

[@israelvazquez2592]

What the hell...lol

[@FoursWithin]

Important context , What flavor of pie ??? 🥧

[@chrishirst671]

I am now 71 years old, and since I was *10* years old *NOTHING* from any religion has *ever* made sense to me.

[@Critic-qn3hg]

It will when Jesus comes first Corinthians, 4 verse 5.

[@rblxfan22]

@@Critic-qn3hgOr my favorite verse, Atheists 24:7, which states that god is a myth

[@Critic-qn3hg]

@@rblxfan22 Don't recognize the book. I'm a critic of the Bible. Only.

[@CorbinB-Rax]

​@Critic-qn3hg makes no sense to say when Jesus made us against our will, without our consent, and forced us into a sith-like dichotomy, entirely unnecessarily, so he could merely be worshipped. Unconscionable evil. No, I do not misunderstand. I'm a scholar with 30 years of experience and lived it for 19. There isn't one aspect of the entire "relationship" that i won't absolutely destroy you in. Oh, and pick a language. I use all 3. 99% chance that you do not.

[@jacksonrodrigues7533]

You’re still 10 year old even at 71

[@duanethompson8770]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts about heaven. After being an unquestioning Christian for over 70 years I finally realized that I had some questions about heaven. When I went in search of answers I found atheism. I realize I am not going to find all the answers and that is okay.

[@jezebelvibes]

Doesn't it feel nice to remove the pressure of having to know all of the answers? I've found myself getting very comfortable saying "I don't know".

[@HarryNicNicholas]

even if there was a god no one has a clue what he would be like, so supposing there is a hell must be the same made up tripe as the rest of religion, as a life long atheist it's been clear to me that if there was a god i would know about it personally, god failing to communicate with me when he wants me to love him is as dumb as any other religious concept - and i do the same as religists, i make up god's qualities to suit me, no one has ever met the guy.

[@undrwatropium3724]

I'd rather have a question that can't be answered than an answer that can't be questioned

[@leonardgibney2997]

We are stardust, the signature of life, amino acids, is found in the interstellar medium. The element carbon. In England the BBC conducted an experiment to see whether the cosmos is bounded or unbounded in the four dimensions. Using the microwave background radiation they found the universe is indeed unbounded in the three dimensions of space and one of time. It did not begin and has no edge they said. This might mean the universe is God. You want God? Look around you.

[@abdulhasibtamim6905]

@@duanethompson8770 You might find answers in Islam, ever looked into it?

[@Rickytbird]

"If you don't believe you'll go to hell" "Who's in hell?" "People like you." "Who's in Heaven?" "People like me." "You need to work on your threats"

[@spanke2999]

🤣

[@EluviumMC]

Once upon a time I was a mormon missionary. I once ran into someone who told me, "all you Mormons are going to hell." My response, "at least I'll be with friends."

[@elizabethduran3435]

😂

[@casper-z9rkls6gl]

​@@spanke2999 Christians (and by extension Muslims) copied, stole and appropriated the notion of "Heaven" and "Hell" from _The Field of Reeds_ and _Duat_ found in Ancient Egyptian Mythology; _Elysium (Elysian Fields)_ and _Tartarus_ in Greek Mythology, _Gan Eden_ and _Gehenna_ in Judaism . . . and especially _The House of Song_ and _The House of Lies_ in Zoroastrianism DUALISM.

[@Justin.Martyr]

@@elizabethduran3435 *WHY DO You Choose to Have a Bot666 User Name???* *I Know that you have a BUSY LIFE!!!! But===>* *your RePLy to DikBird, was very Disappointing!!!* *Before JeHovahGOD, I Make Copies of these Dated Comments; & MyBaL. wiLL Show My=>* *Votes for KAM, HoyLe(House) & Other Anti-TrumpTurds!!!!* *Justin . James . Martyr (AT) G . c | Eugene, Oregon BusLine #1 | a Genuine & REAL Guy!!!*

[@Tahsuda540]

I am an indigenous tribal citizen and what the Christians and the church had done to my ancestors. I choose the way of my ancestors.

[@DwayneShaw1]

another reason why Christianity is so harmful to the world - but the religious beliefs of your ancestors is made up bullshit too

[@1duskyknight]

Greetings to you and your family. I commend you for keeping the belief system of your Ancestors because religions that have been thrust upon us has done us no good at all and only led to us being subjugated by others who most likely do not look like us. One Love.

[@uknowme1811]

If there was a god, or gods Ive often though to me it would more likely take the form of a animal or tree. Even as a kid I felt more of a connection to nature and animals then to human constructs. But Im a old white dude what do I know.

[@cezz1105]

You're probably from one of the 12tribes of Israel.

[@lokilawson]

And what a beautiful way to live! Working in harmony with nature and seeing one's self as part of nature, rather than apart and superior to it. Our religion teaches people that this life is just a small part of a much bigger life, and so it gives license to abuse the earth which actually gives us life. I often wonder what the Americas would look like today if my ancestors had simply left it alone. Or if they had learned from your culture, and brought that all over the world. An entire world working in harmony with nature, respecting it and nurturing it. This seems like the right thing to me.

[@Cocreatewithus]

"Every knee WILL bow, every tongue CONFESS...". Doesn't sound much like free will to me.

[@jezebelvibes]

Me either!

[@japexican007]

To me this is akin to every tongue will confess that 2+2 =4 Basically 2+2 =4 is true regardless of how everyone feels about it, there are those who reject it and make every excuse not to accept this truth. But God gives everyone as much time as they need in order to come to him, thus eventually even the most prolific individual will come to terms with freely accepting 2+2=4

[@epsp91]

@@japexican007 This analogy makes no sense. It's like saying: manipulation + love = perfect love, regardless of how everyone feels about it. It's also true that children are abused. Aren't we allowed with our free will to condemn that? Just because something is true, doesn't mean that we have to agree with it. If there is a god who created us with free will, he shouldn't complain if we actually use it. Throwing us in hell for it is just childish.

[@jennypagan6120]

​@@epsp91 I think what they meant was God was gonna reveal himself and everyone'll see that he's actually real because there'd be proof now

[@loledssdafd3429]

@@jennypagan6120 exactly

[@SpidermansSymbiote]

Heaven was described as an eternal church service where we'd praise god forever. I hated the idea of that as a kid and didn't want to go to heaven and I felt horrible about it.

[@williambunter3311]

SpidermanSymbiote; Seeing you still call yourself 'Spiderman........', seems like you still mentally are a kid!

[@darkhill556]

Fascinating thoughts, Kristi! As a young Baptist, I was always taught that our only desire in heaven would be to praise God. The loss of free will was implied but not formally expressed. I think it's really important to Christians and other conspiracy theorists to feel like they are in the right about what they believe. Whether they admit it or not, they're all waiting for that "I told you so!" moment, on earth or at the pearly gates. Being able to feel that they made the "right choice" requires some notion of free will. This gets logically messy for the denominations that believe in election/predestination, but they try to make it work. The good news is that it's all a myth, so it doesn't have to make sense! I appreciate your comments about exploring the questions instead of advocating for a particular position. One of the best things about deconversion is being able to independently take that journey of discovery without the fear of hellfire and damnation if we don't get everything right. Thanks again!

[@jezebelvibes]

Very messy indeed! I guess that's why they need apologetics 😅 It’s good to hear that deconstruction has given you space to explore these questions without that weight. That freedom to figure things out without fear is such a relief!

[@riseofdarkleela]

@leob3447arguably, learning to love being wrong is the best path to intellectual integrity.

[@JamesRichardWiley]

You have to create your own version of God since the one in the Bible is a monster. Heaven is simply your own desire while you are in the human form.

[@jamesaston410]

@@riseofdarkleela100% Being wrong, making mistakes and learning from them is all completely natural and normal. Being perfect, or believing one is perfect is not normal or even possible!

[@MarceldeJong]

@@JamesRichardWileyor just forgo god alltogether. You don't need the crutch of a god in order to live your life.

[@Specialeffecks]

God is constantly adjusting His synchronous orbit to be properly positioned directly over the next major league sports player who points up to thank Him for his touchdown.

[@PseudoIntellectual2.0]

@@Specialeffecks When Jesus comes back, he will be a quarterback. Who knows? Maybe Tom Brady is Jesus, it would explain how he was so good at football. When he prayed to God on the football field he said: “dear God, it’s me, you. Thank you for making me (you) the greatest quarterback of all time! I know you (me) are a huge fan of American football! I knew you would forgive you for punishing yourself 2000ish years ago by making me, you, a football star!”

[@HarryNicNicholas]

isn't praying before a match kinda match fixing? if god helps your team, that's cheating isn't it? aren't you supposed to be "evenly" matched?

[@RebekahBorg-of1fi]

😂😂😂

[@Mark-qq9cd]

My thoughts exactly!!

[@Oldschool811]

God's priorities should not be questioned 😅😅😅😅

[@nerfzombie6242]

As a resident of WNC affected by the flooding, and an animal lover, I want to personally thank you for this fund raising effort!

[@jezebelvibes]

So sorry to hear you were affected. I'm hoping you're getting all the resources you need. ❤️❤️

[@nerfzombie6242]

@@jezebelvibes, thank you! We are doing well, and the community (and the government!) are working hard. It’s going to be a long recovery, but us mountain folk are as resilient as we are hard-headed!

[@user-wb2yv7ll9d]

I agree, thank you. I just sent a donation. ❤️

[@jezebelvibes]

Appalachia is quite resilient indeed

[@Jade-Hikes]

Just donated!

[@Normallydifferent]

No longer having a fear of hell has been one of the most freeing parts of my deconstruction journey.

[@timput2948]

I remember conversing with my parents about free will and heaven when I was very young. They told me that accepting Jesus as your savior would lead to eternal bliss in heaven, where you'd worship God forever. If you didn’t take him as your savior, you'd burn in hell for eternity. Neither option sounded appealing to me, so I asked my parents if I could choose to die and have that be the end of it. They said no-God only offers two choices. Accept or reject him. That didn’t sound like free will because I would choose neither. So, I figured it was better to enjoy and make the most of this life since, either way, the afterlife would be Hell.

[@jaflenbond7854]

ATHEISM and RELIGIONS versus the CREATOR and JESUS CHRIST Atheists, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and fanatics of all kinds of Religions who unitedly fill the world with Satanic hatred, arrogance, treacheries, cruelties, deceits, LIES and false teachings and doctrines about "hellfire", "Armageddon", "rapture", "Trinity", "immortality of the souls", "afterlife", and "reincarnation" are obviously opposed, against, and will never ever accept the TRUTHS that - 1. all persons on earth who rejected Atheism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, and all kinds of Religions as worthless and useless, no value whatsoever and willingly submit instead to the authority of Jesus Christ in their obedience to what's written in Matthew 28: 18 are clearly the loving, kind, respectful, and submissive WORSHIPPERS of the CREATOR on earth who are all worthy and deserving of the loving, kind, and merciful Creator's favor and reward of ETERNAL LIFE and existence on earth without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death as written in Revelation 21: 3, 4. 2. The teachings of Jesus Christ about the "Kingdom of God' and "Resurrection of the Dead" written in Luke 4: 43 and John 11: 25, 26 are the guarantee that all the loving, kind, respectful, and submissive WORSHIPPERS of the CREATOR who died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Job, Ruth, Naomi, King David, Jesus Christ's Followers and disciples, and many others will all be RESURRECTED back to life in the right and proper time so they can happily and peacefully live and exist on earth forever as submissive and obedient subjects and citizens of the "KINGDOM of GOD" and fully enjoy the eternal love, kindness, goodness, compassions, generosities, favors, and blessings of the Creator and his Christ for eternity under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as the Creator's Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth as written in Revelation 11: 15.

[@sarahjames505]

Ha ha!!! You have never heard of limbo, check out the Roman Catholics, a place with human happiness for good pagans and babies who died unbaptised. My kind of place forget heaven sounds boring.

[@fredbmurphy]

I don't think that is eternal limbo. Catholicism cannot escape their unmerciful Creator. Purgatory is a claimed in-between. Most of Christianity can't either. Required salvation doesn't fit reality. Belief over knowledge is the lie that allows the con and paints faith as a virtie. If you can't sin in heaven or do good in hell, you need a golden shower as a response if you think free will is revelant.

[@sarahjames505]

@@fredbmurphy Do think Limbo exisits but for fun it would be my choice, eternal human happiness, do not want to be heaven praising god all day.

[@effortless4588]

What is so bad about praising Jesus to yall? Truly, I can assure you following someone who died for you is not a bad thing at all

[@StevenMyers-wx6du]

Great subject Kristi. Thank you! Is there free will in heaven? If so, how can you say there’ll be no sin? A third of the angels had free will, experienced God’s full majesty first hand for eons, and still rebelled. How can we know God won’t “regret” making Heaven, like he regretted making man a mere 6 chapters into the Bible? My other question is: If Hell was prepared for Satan and his angels, why weren’t they immediately cast into Hell the moment they rebelled? Why send them to your children’s neighborhood, then punish your children for being molested?

[@jezebelvibes]

That last question!

[@HarryNicNicholas]

shhh don't ask.

[@zacgonzales5883]

This is the line of reasoning that broke my faith to begin with. It's basically all a racket. A set up. Creating a problem so you can provide the solution. Nothing more than extorting humanity for "protection."

[@paulgemme6056]

@@jezebelvibes There is no such being on the planet or in hell that was once a true born-again believer because once one is born of the Spirit (Holy Spirit) they can never be unborn of the Spirit. Just as we can never be unborn of our earthly parents. The gift of eternal life is just that - eternal (forever). Read your bible and the truth (Jesus Christ - the Holy Spirit) will set you free from the lies of the enemy (Satan - the devil). No religion is needed for salvation, just faith, faith plus nothing. One can be religious and then walk away from religion, but one can never be snatched out of the hand of God after they are saved.

[@Cheese-is-its-own-food-group]

Beliefs are like an ugly family heirloom that gets handed down through generations simply because that’s how it’s always been.

[@FoursWithin]

Yep, Beliefs are vastly overrated

[@Colddirector]

I think tradition can be a nice thing that gives people a sense of place and purpose, but traditions that alienate or belittle people do not do that and should be either modified or discarded.

[@FoursWithin]

@@Colddirector Traditions are not necessarily beliefs. Traditions can continue without holding beliefs , especially divisive or superstitious beliefs.

[@lorifiedler13]

Tradition is peer pressure from the dead.

[@Cheese-is-its-own-food-group]

@@lorifiedler13 OMG nice! I’ll have to borrow that!

[@1ApeinSpace]

It was beautiful, I saw him, our lord and savior Jesus Christ. His hair was flowing like a river and his eyes were like the sun. He had wings with gems inlaid upon them, and a flaming cloak. At length he spoke to me, and whispered "Ape, I don't think that was a micro dose"

[@Elusive.magick]

Hahaha. You so had me.

[@lemsip207]

Yes, Revelations must have come about from a hallucination. But it was also stolen from pagan religions. In ancient Slavic culture, there was a black god along with a white god. The black god was the terrifying mountain creature in Mussorgy's Night On A Bald Mountain.

[@sarahjames505]

@@lemsip207 and with NDE's and serious medical research it is coming back, the end of organised religions as we all meet gods for ourselves. Carl Jung: "One of the main functions of organized religion is to protect people against a direct experience of God." Says it all!! Karen Horney idea of womb envy is the idea that men may feel envious of women's biological functions, such as pregnancy, childbirth, and breastfeeding. Horney believed that womb envy is an innate male psychological trait that can lead to men feeling inferior and seeking to dominate women and that this envy may lead them to compensate by claiming superiority in all other areas. And also create a god in their own image, all powerful, all knowing and uncontradictable. Sounds like patriarchy or an evangelical minister maybe!!!

[@Raz.C]

@@lemsip207 Don't know it. I'm familiar with Mussorgsky's _Hall of the Mountain King_ which sounds like it might be related to this _terrifying mountain creature._ edit - My bad! That's Greig! Mussorgsky did "Pictures at an Exhibition" that I'm familiar with, but that sounds entirely unrelated.

[@cezz1105]

That was Christ. That was "Cesare Borgia"

[@Sarah-1a2j3l]

I think what you’re doing for a lot of us is validating us, and helping us heal. So thank you.

[@williambunter3311]

Do you really need a slip of a girl to 'validate' you, Sarah? Why not try thinking for yourself and achieving self-validation? It's called 'growing up'.

[@evanplante]

I used to use the line, "Who are you to challenge centuries of earnest scholarship?" ... until I was the one to challenge it! Then I answered, "I am me... a human being... a man with a brain... a man with free will... and I reject your scholarship because it does not obtain philosophically." Thank you for tackling this important topic.

[@TheAtheistMexican78]

The interesting thing about the question is that you can ask the same thing to Jesus when he was challenging the status quo. Or really any challenges to the pantheist religions that dominated much of the world. Those were thousands of years being challenged.

[@frankingenito]

Great video Kristi. I would also add that you have to give up your free will as soon as you become a christian. You are told to be a slave to Christ, die to self, and that your will no longer matters, only the will of God matters. It's ridiculous that God would give you free will to choose him and then make you give up your free will to serve him. It took me 30 years, but I am very glad to say that I am no longer a christian.

[@undrwatropium3724]

"Jesus didn't teach hate!": *cough cough..* Luke 14:26 “If any man comes to Me and **hate** not his father and mother, and wife and children, and brethren and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.

[@davidwilliams4498]

Who is gonna save you. If you are not with Christ . Christ came to take sin away from the world an reunite us all to a holy God. It's clearly been settled. We will live in a holy no free will sinless heaven or be separated an obliterated at the end judgement. It's everyone choice in the end.

[@Hrethgir]

Since God already had his robot worship army, then the only reason I can think of that he made us was to play with us. Sometimes good, but lots of bad. And when he gets upset at us, he's one of those guys who will just flip the board over out of anger.

[@natconproductions149]

Literally the words of Bo Burnham. God: You're not my children, you're a bad game of Sims

[@DwayneShaw1]

“Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, then that of blindfolded fear.” - Thomas Jefferson (to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787)

[@benvandermerwe4934]

A European missionary in my African country forbade a local to eat pork after baptizing him and giving him a European name. Questioning his faith after seeing him eating pork again, the guy simply answered that he he baptized the pork and it's now fish.

[@Oldschool811]

Nice 😅😅😅

[@mikeb9569]

Excellent!😄

[@Isaac-hm6ih]

Huh, didn't know they had that spell. I thought they were only given Transmute To Human Flesh.

[@18471902]

Very simple--If god is omnipotent and omniscient and created everything and there is nothing he did not create, then every thought and impulse any person has is the result of that creation. So we are all programmed robots.

[@evanurena8868]

This is an excellent counterargument on the argument of robots/no free will Christianity often references concerning God giving making us as perfect creations without the ability to sin lt's something I've had problem with but couldn't wrap my head around the issue.

[@sarahjames505]

Sadly science says that might actually be true, except without the god bit! Simply put all the chemical reactions that make us work can all be predicted if we had enough information!!

[@Eric-ej3oy]

I guess you was programmed to say this hahn. 🙄

[@TobiasMercury]

Free will always struck me as the christian god's cruelest joke, he gives you free will but he'll send you to hell if you use it But it's a gift from God

[@adams13245]

"You have the gift of free will. You can do whatever you want- except anything that breaks the laws of physics. Or chemistry. Or biology. But aside from all that, you're good!" "Can I eat a pulled pork sandwich, with scallops and wear polyester?" "What, no!" "But those aren't against the laws of physics, chemistry or biology!" "Yeah, well... I don't like you doing that! As a matter of fact, once you die, I have a place of fire and burning and agony I'll throw you into if you break any one of my rules and don't beg for forgiveness." "Isn't coercion against free will?" "Not when I do it... cause... uhh... I'm Gawd!"

[@jacquieweare2220]

Free will gives people the ability to abuse, murder, do whatever terrible thing they want to someone else. What about the other person's free will who doesn't desire to be abused? What parent just stands and watches an older, bigger child beat up a weaker one? While the weaker one cries for help, all they hear from the parent is that the strong one has free will do refuses to intervene? It makes no sense. There is so much that isn't true in this book.

[@pinky9440]

This is a great example. What earthly parent will watch his or her kid being bullied and just shrugs and says, "Meh, free will." They will definitely step in. But a loving heavenly father just looks the other way and probably says, "Meh, free will."

[@uknowme1811]

@@pinky9440 yep the cop walks by the alley and catches a glimpse of a man raping a woman. The cop goes" Meh! I shouldn't change the rapers free will" and the cop walks on.

[@Justin_Beaver564]

That's not how I would define free will. If we want our civil liberties to be respected we need to respect everyone else's.

[@pinky9440]

@Justin_Beaver564 Ah, so God looking the other way when people starve or gets raped, are "protecting their civil liberties." Righto...

[@effortless4588]

​@@uknowme1811 is the cop God? No

[@alanhyland5697]

If I DID hypothetically go to heaven, I'd have no choice but to leave because I'd be in a state of constant anxiety from the crowds.

[@jezebelvibes]

Honestly same.

[@MULEHEAD73]

Haven’t you heard Heavens not overflowing?😂

[@alanhyland5697]

@@MULEHEAD73 something, something, "...and a great MULTITUDE appeared before the Lord..."

[@francelaferriere6106]

Really? I was under the impression that Hell would be more crowded! 😆😇

[@pinky9440]

​@jezebelvibes - Don't worry, the change would be so profound, we won't even know we didn't like crowds! 😂😂😂

[@kevinvaters2526]

“I don’t have to be stuck in ideologies”. I like that, thanks Kristi😊

[@sitirokimbo]

Yet she is in tbe ideology of 64 billion genders

[@dannydazzena7160]

Glad you are okay after the bad weather. Thank you for showing me it's okay to explore my beliefs and think for myself.

[@SuperKiobi13]

The irony of using free will as an argument for the problem of evil while dedicating their livesto get to a paradise with no free will

[@nate666]

Actually Christ never spoke about free will. That's something people came up with. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil had nothing to do with God giving man free will, it was about giving man knowledge. It wasn't the tree of free will, it is the tree of knowledge.

[@astronm64]

​@@nate666many Christian dogmas were something Jesus never spoke of. It's just a bunch of interpretations of their scripture in order to fit their own beliefs.

[@winstonwhiteside9525]

​@nate666: ​ That makes no sense. If the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil GAVE them the knowledge of good and evil, then they're going to have to make a choice: Good or Evil. And the only way they can make that choice is with Free Will! With knowledge comes choices. And if you don't have the knowledge, somebody else is going to make the choice for you.

[@nate666]

​@@winstonwhiteside9525yes, but could Adam & Eve remain in the garden of Eden after they ate from the tree? Nope. They didn't have the freewill to stay in the garden. There is no freewill. Either way man is under someone else's control.

[@sootuckchoong7077]

For God so loved the world, that whoever don't love Him back, will be sent down to Hell where they'll suffer in agony forever and ever.

[@adams13245]

@@sootuckchoong7077 But he loves you! He loves you and he needs money!

[@Grimm91]

Back during the Spanish conquest of the Caribbean, a Taino leader was sentence to burn alive. Before being burned a priest ask him to be converted to Christianity and he asked if the Spanish also went to heaven and of course the priest affirmed, and Hatuey the taino leader said: "No quiero yo ir allá, sino al infierno, por no estar donde estén y por no ver tan cruel gente." "I don't want to go there, I'll go to hell, where you aren't, so I don't see such cruel people." I have always thought of this, why go to heaven where I know these people are going to be. And also heaven sounds more like another type of hell.

[@SuperManning11]

Kristi, you are indeed and amazing thinker. When I was a Christian I used to be troubled about Heaven-even when I was a child, the idea of eternal bliss sounded horrible to me. My entire life has been about overcoming difficulties and the rewards that that brings when I get to the other side of that difficulty. Just standing around smiling and listening to harp music would last less than five minutes with me before I’d want OUT! I have been told that that would all change when I get to Heaven and I would no longer think like that. Well, that just means mind control and again I would revolt. Eventually I came to the conclusion that it must just be one more thing that no one could explain, and had to rely on faith to make any sense of at all. With your help and a couple of other folks on YT, I was finally able to see that just about every aspect of the religion had similar problems and I just needed to move on! Thank you!

[@jaflenbond7854]

ATHEISM and RELIGIONS bring DISHONOR and ETERNAL DEATHS Atheists, Jehovah's Witnesses, SDAs, Mormons, Catholics, Methodists, Baptists, Born Again Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and fanatics of all kinds of Religions clearly don't respect and value their own lives, dignities, and existence and that of their own families and neighbors, obviously unbothered and just don't care even if their own arrogance, treacheries, hypocrisies, cruelties, deceits, and their - 1. LIE and false claim that the Creator is worthless, useless, and undeserving to honored and respected as the True and Sovereign GOD and 2. LIES and false teachings and doctrines about "hellfire", "Armageddon", "rapture", "Trinity", "immortality of the souls", "afterlife", and "reincarnation" bring them dishonor, disgrace, shame, and cause their own downfall and ETERNAL DEATHS and the humiliations, degradations, sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and DEATHS of their own families and neighbors. REJECTION of ATHEISM and RELIGIONS brings HONOR and ETERNAL LIFE and EXISTENCE on EARTH Loving, kind, respectful, and submissive persons on earth who rejected Atheism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, and all kinds of Religions as worthless and useless, no value whatsoever and willingly submit instead to the authority of Jesus Christ in their obedience to what's written in Matthew 28: 18 will definitely bring themselves honor and the loving, kind, and merciful Creator's favor and reward of ETERNAL LIFE and existence on earth without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death as written in Revelation 21: 3, 4 and the teachings of Jesus Christ about the "Kingdom of God' and "Resurrection of the Dead" written in Luke 4: 43 and John 11: 25, 26 are the guarantee that all the loving, kind, respectful, and submissive Worshippers of the Creator who died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Job, Ruth, Naomi, King David, Jesus Christ's Followers and disciples, and many others will all be RESURRECTED back to life in the right and proper time so they can happily and peacefully live and exist on earth forever as submissive and obedient subjects and citizens of the "KINGDOM of GOD" and fully enjoy the eternal love, kindness, goodness, compassions, generosities, favors, and blessings of the Creator and his Christ for eternity under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as the Creator's Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth as written in Revelation 11: 15.

[@SuperManning11]

@@jaflenbond7854 oh dear, I mean no disrespect, but you need to get some help so you can sort out all those contradictory thoughts that you are spewing. It must be very difficult if not impossible for you to form any kind of logical understanding of anything when such a storm is raging in your brain. Trust me, go get some help, you won’t regret it! For ANYONE ELSE who is reading this comment: look no further than the words of this commenter for an example of exactly how religion can destroy a person’s mind, rendering it useless for much of anything. At times it can be worse than drugs!! Take heed!

[@jaflenbond7854]

@@SuperManning11 BELIEVERS of LIES, FANTASIES, and FAIRY TALES versus BELIEVERS of JESUS CHRIST The Unbiblical teachings and doctrines of the Pastors and Leaders of Religions about "hellfire", "Armageddon", "rapture", "Trinity", "immortality of the souls", "afterlife", and "reincarnation" are all worthless and useless, nothing but lies, deceits, fictions, fantasies, and fairy tales that will definitely bring nothing but dishonor, disgrace, shame, and ETERNAL DEATHS to Jehovah's Witnesses, SDAs, Mormons, Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, Born Again Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, and fanatics of all kinds of Religions while the teaching of Jesus Christ about the "Kingdom of God" written in Luke 4: 43 will definitely bring honor and the loving, kind, and merciful Creator's favor and reward of ETERNAL LIFE and existence on earth without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death as written in Revelation 21: 3, 4 to loving, kind, respectful, and submissive Worshippers of the Creator on earth who honor and obey Jesus Christ as their loving, kind, and merciful Master and Heavenly King in their obedience to what's written in Matthew 28: 18 and the teaching of Jesus Christ about the "Resurrection of the Dead" written in John 11: 25, 26 is the guarantee that all the loving, kind, respectful, and submissive Worshippers of the Creator who died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Job, Ruth, Naomi, King David, Jesus Christ's Followers and disciples, and many others will all be RESURRECTED back to life in the right and proper time so they can happily and peacefully live and exist on earth forever as submissive and obedient subjects and citizens of the "KINGDOM of GOD" and fully enjoy the eternal love, kindness, goodness, compassions, generosities, favors, and blessings of the Creator and his Christ for eternity under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as the Creator's Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth as written in Revelation 11: 15.

[@williambunter3311]

SuperManning: better to have you mind controlled by God than by a confused slip of a girl like Kristi Burke. For goodness sake grow up.

[@TheRealLurtz]

I once asked my mother what she thinks about her being in heaven and me being in hell because I stopped believing all the bs, she straight up told me “it will be like I never knew you, God will make me forget you ever existed”.

[@jezebelvibes]

That breaks my heart. Nobody deserves to hear that from their parent.

[@MB-ro5xh]

@@jezebelvibes it maybe better than hearing from a terrifying demon in eternal darkness, if this is to be the truth. Better to hear it here where the fate is not sealed yet.

[@Tomato_Dragonzord]

Somehow I don't think she genuinely meant that. Indoctrination makes people think and say incredibly stupid things, but once they are confronted with reality, it might as well turn out that simple empathy overcomes and overwrites all of this religious nonsense.

[@adams13245]

@@MB-ro5xh Can we speak with this terrifying demon of eternal darkness? Or is she busy getting tortured in hell, and can't return any calls?

[@chrissyscholl816]

Just like in Harry potter when harmionie erases the memory of her parents so she can go fight the Wizarding war at hogwarts in case she died... that scene breaks my heart every time I've seen it.

[@mickdonedee1]

This is one of Kristi's most thought-provoking videos. I'll have to watch it several times to ponder the complex questions it raises.

[@SK10HD]

sounds simple but also complicated

[@marqueemparc6657]

Another fantastic video by Kristi! Some friends of mine try to claim that God is loving despite the problem of evil because of the gift of free will, but something about it just didn’t sit right with me, and this video perfectly lays out the logic I was trying to make sense of.

[@jezebelvibes]

Happy I could help! ☺️

[@chronogaruda2003]

My family does fear mongering all the time with this stuff. Even during my grandma's funeral, it was full of fear mongering, preaching, and even worship. It barely felt like a funeral, and they put my grandpa in the background.

[@ZackScott-s7p]

Rip to her

[@blade_warrior_blue]

"Well God has to allow all this horrific evil to happen in this world because free will!" So is there free will in heaven? 😅 This is one of those things that will make them squirm and desperately try to change the subject.

[@leafe-lu3jd]

@blade_warrior_blue You just Blew my freaking mind dude! I didn't think that was possible anymore on these topics but wow 😍 I love this response!

[@areuaware6842]

The god of Abraham caused all this horrid evil to happen in this world.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

@@leafe-lu3jd well wasn't eden supposed to be heaven? and weren't we supposed to go straight to eden? so why bother with this test that sorts the sinners from the chosen ones when we were ALL supposed to be in heaven on day one?

[@Real_eyes_realize_real_lies-q]

It's not God's fault it's humans

[@zacgonzales5883]

​@D1_troller_23 If it's humanity's fault it's because God made us this way.

[@Jacomacca]

Thank you for articulating what every faithful but deep-thinking Christian always had in their mind but did not know how to or were afraid to express. For the most part we were fed "conclusions" but not the consciousness, freedom and discipline to help us arrive to those conclusions for ourselves.

[@sarahjames505]

Jung believed that organized religion purpose was to stop us having a direct experience of God.

[@CharlesPayet]

Indeed, “free will” seems to be one of the most-used and abused apologetic excuses these days. It’s really irritating, too, because the really have no clue what they mean by it, because in the very next sentence they’re talking about “God’s perfect plan for creation.”

[@jezebelvibes]

Yes! Absolutely. I definitely never realized how complicated and philosophical the concept of "free will" truly was until years after I left Christianity. And even now, I still don't feel I have a firm grasp on it. But so few Christians consider the constant doublespeak in their aplogetics concerning free will. It doesn't take a lot of unpacking to realize how contradictory the entire ideological system is with freedom.

[@marshallsobin4879]

@@jezebelvibesPREDESTINATION IS ALSO PROBLEMATIC

[@ianalan4367]

jezebelvibes - Hello, I hope you and yours have been well. I’m not sure free will needs to be that complicated. As you have heard before, though I have never heard you state it as a fundamental proclamation of Christianity, God created mankind for the purpose of communing in His love. He then would have created us with free will for you cannot truly love something without the freedom of making that choice. We know from our own experience that love cannot be forced. Everything we do, with the exception of being created, is by choice. God has foreknowledge of what choices we will make, but the choice is still ours to make. You see God’s plan includes (some may say based upon) our free will. As C.S. Lewis once wrote there could be no heaven or hell without our freedom to choose. How is that doublespeak?

[@ianalan4367]

marshallsobin4879 - Apostolic Christianity has considered predestination a heresy for over 2K years now.

[@marshallsobin4879]

@@ianalan4367 agreed , ST AUGUSTINE was the first to promote it. But that would mean that trillions of years ago G-D programed Tom DICK and HARRY down to every minute action in their lives; they only have enough consciousness to experience the torture of HELL or pleasantries of HEAVEN-- though choice of which would be never given them , not on a trillion years. That said ARMINIANISM also has challenges.

[@MichaelGackler]

I remember sitting in church as a young adult one Sunday morning after a weekend of celebration of this church's 100th birthday. The pastor ended the service say "This weekend is what eternity is going to be like" and the thought to myself "What the fuck? All of eternity in CHURCH?? This doesn't sound like fun at all!!"

[@jezebelvibes]

Sounds like hell to me!

[@TheBmoc214]

This video is extremely compelling! Thank you for helping to affirm my decision to leave the faith once and for all. 💯

[@MrDalisclock]

Thank you for this. I've thought a lot along the same lines, and I appreciate someone putting this out on KZbin for people to consider.

[@micaiahm1]

Swap out heaven with marriage at 19:13 Can we say “In order to be free adult, we must have cheating, jealousy and abuse. Because it’s the consequence of being a free adult, they fit together”? How is it different? Why does freedom have to include hurting people?

[@blzrdphoto]

Great video! I love this topic. Free will has always been such a crazy nebulous thing to me. I remember the first time I watched the movie “Total Recall” and it started me thinking about what it even means to be you. What are you without your memories? If your memories aren’t real, are “you” even real? I feel real, but there’s no way I can even know I’m not a Boltzmann brain. Or part of a simulation. When I’m making a choice is it me who’s making a choice? Or is it simply a combination of axons and dendrites that are making sweet sweet chemistry love with each other in such a way that over 40 years of exposure to stimuli just had no other path into the future other than the path they took. My brain just exploded again.

[@stevenpike7857]

"Worship me willingly or go to eternal damnation!" doesn't sound like free will at all.

[@jacksonrodrigues7533]

Pray to God to enlighten you

[@nadine6948]

​@@jacksonrodrigues7533and once you find out your prayers don't work your still missrable then what guess your gonna have to continue praying and praising God and allow him to take over all your life let him make your goals your needs your future your plans then don't you ever wonder then what is my purpose because if I can't have my own goals or plans or dreams or hope's or wants or needs because according to Christ it's a evil distraction 🙄 then what is our purpose I guess our purpose is just nothing I guess humanity is nothing but a powerless little spicies with no value because if your not praising God praying or talking to him following him on the path he wants for you then we don't matter even if we do what he wants and for me it doesn't matter if God has better plans for me because I rather follow my own heart goals plans dreams hope's wants or needs regards what is better for me or what makes me happier and are you sure God is the in lightener because he never in lightened me or gave me much of a happyest memory or one I'll never forget no instead I went to a mental health hospital and I met Lucifer I guess I sang🎶 so beautiful and perfect i somoned him it looked like he was this beautiful creature doing yoga on the floor like an illusion then he started dancing he looked cool like a shadow and like the matrix and he did something Jesus Christ never did for me and that's give me a real happiest memory I felt in lightened with Lucifer instead another thing Lucifer did and not Christ was giving me a hug he even sounded like me

[@stevenpike7857]

@@jacksonrodrigues7533 That doesn't work either. If it did there wouldn't be so many incompatible beliefs. This god and its spirit seem to tell people different things.

[@stevenpike7857]

@@Jo-tm3zq111 It's not written anywhere in the Bible that you must worship it's god, and if you don't you'll spend eternity in hell? You're not a very good apologist for this god.

[@RobertGraziose]

How can you possibly do something willingly that you're being coerced to do? If you've got to do it willingly, that's gonna leave a lot of people out, right? I've known a lot of people. Except they did this after hearing a fire-and-brimstone preach and we're fearing hell. I don't know what an all loving god want to be feared and want people to come to him out of fear?

[@PseudoIntellectual2.0]

Kristi, thank you for your videos. You remind me of the kind ladies from the church I used to be in. Only you are intellectually honest.

[@jezebelvibes]

☺️

[@NeoPsychosis-zg2ki]

even as a christian, the entire concept of heaven was like a military camp

[@nate666]

Jesus talked about rest. That sounds wonderful to me. Just sleeping in my mansion in heaven 🛌

[@NeoPsychosis-zg2ki]

@@nate666 why are you so excited to get a spiritual lobotomy ?

[@Marcus.22823]

​@@nate666😂

[@NeoPsychosis-zg2ki]

@@rivertonhigh-v4t enjoy your enslaved life but don't try to shovel your religious chains to free people, TQ

[@KynaTiona]

I forget who I heard it from, but I heard a surprisingly elegant solution to this problem. If you look at how Yahweh behaves throughout the Christian Bible and especially in the Old Testament, it becomes glaringly obvious that anything that sounds like a blanket promise comes with the unspoken caveat that he'll take it all away if you fail to live up to his expectations. Prophets having to petition Yahweh not to destroy Israel, Jesus promising miracles but not delivering supposedly over a lack of faith, and so on. Given that and the fact that there's already a precedent for people getting kicked out of heaven, the answer becomes obvious in hindsight: There is no sin in Heaven, because any sin gets you immediately kicked out. And there are a _lot_ of ways to sin. On the scale of eternity, no one lives in Heaven. You can last a billion years, but you'll spend an infinity more burning.

[@jessicav2031]

Funny. One error and straight to hell doesn't make much sense though, even Earth supposedly doesn't work like that. What God really wants is people to grovel, and slip-ups are the perfect opportunity for that.

[@Dan-dg8js]

While researching christian topics a few days ago, I came across your channel. Even though I attended Church of England schools and activities as a child, I've always been an atheist. It always felt bizarre to me and I’d purposely avoid singing hymns and mumble something that couldn’t be understood rather than say Amen or recite the Lord’s Prayer. The way you articulate your views in such a positive and cheerful manner is wonderful to see. I agree with you on pretty much everything. I admire your work, well done.

[@kidslovesatan34]

I was raised and educated Catholic and it never took. I never accepted what I was being taught was true, because it didn't seem like it was true to me. It still amazes me that other people do buy it.

[@DwayneShaw1]

"Of course we have free will, we have no choice - - the Boss says so" - Christopher Hitchens

[@StanGreyTRQ]

I've been trying to tell people about this! You will essentially be lobotomized, unable to remember or think about anything "bad" or "sad." It's a very dystopian existence when you play it out. Great video, my friend!

[@HannahFitts]

I grew up Christian and don’t agree with a lot of things about Christianity but have a terrible fear of hell that I don’t think will ever go away. I fear death so much because of it, and I feel like I have to go back to church and following God because of how scary the idea of it is

[@serenajoy84]

I have the same issues. It's a very real fear

[@marqueemparc6657]

The fear of Hell is a hard thing to overcome and is something that I used to struggle with, too, when I was first deconstructing. But different Christians all tell me different versions of what Hell is, from an eternal lake of fire to simply the absence of God. The more fire-and-brimstone interpretations, I've discovered, for the most part do not come from the Bible, but rather from Renaissance and Romantic era writings like Milton's Paradise Lost or Dante's Inferno. And if Hell is simply the absence of God, it doesn't seem so bad, since I would be with my friends and family and would no longer have to fear death. Heaven to me seems more Hell-like, honestly; being forced to worship and praise God into eternity, separated from those I care about. I hope this helps!

[@micaiahm1]

@@HannahFitts Why did the Lord Jesus bother dying if God wanted us to go to hell? And if He loves you enough to die instead of you, wouldn’t He want you to know you’re safe? I thank God we don’t have to worry about hell anymore.

[@sirfredlock]

It’s not only ok to question the bible it’s actually healthy. Brother John trumps whatever else is written when he says “God is Love” and Perfect Love casts out fear” and “whoever loves is being Fathered by God” and “whoever fears is not yet made perfect in love”. It has helped me immensely to know God as the best Father (Mother also). Anything that does not align with that idea is false. Nowhere am I commanded to believe every word in that set of writings called the bible. No where. The idea that men can accurately transcribe God’s words 100% is ludicrous. Having said that, I find the Jewish writings to be full of God’s thoughts, often reflecting the sense I have of truth. There is real freedom found in believing that God is the best type of Father and that men’s writing don’t always represent God’s actual feelings toward me and my fellow man. The idea that a good father would commit a child to everlasting torment for any reason is definitely evil and antithetical to the Heavenly Father I’ve come to know. Allow me to recommend to you “Field Notes from the Wilderness “ by Sara Bessy, “Love Wins” by Rob Bell and “Unspoken Sermons” by George Macdonald. These are a few of the books that have encouraged me along my own personal journey. You are not alone. You will find your way.

[@micaiahm1]

@@sirfredlock What happens when someone never consents to God changing them? Does God change them without their consent? Does He let them into His new heaven and new earth unchanged? Does He keep them in heaven with the desire to hurt others that He never lets them satisfy?

[@nothingtodo58]

"the power of acting without constraint or necessity of fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion." Can anyone think of an example of "acting without constraint?" I can't. All behavior is determined by our environment, experiences, genetics, knowledge, intelligence or lack of intelligence, biochemistry, and probably a few others I can't think of right now.

[@jezebelvibes]

Absolutely. This is where I pretty much always end up. Everything about who we are and what we choose to do is shaped by external factors outside of our control. This always leads me down a rabbit hole of personal responsibility, and how much control we truly have over ourselves and our behaviors. It's a head scratcher, for sure.

[@nothingtodo58]

@@jezebelvibes How much control do we have over ourselves? None. If our choices are not determined by external/internal factors, then by what are they determined?

[@mickdonedee1]

​@@nothingtodo58 Our earthly concerns are mainly about sustaining our physical and mental condition for a variable number of years. Each individual will do that in a slightly different way based on their choices. Consequently, some will live longer than others and some will live fulfilled and happy lives while others will live miserable lives. That's the consequence of free-will. However, the promise of Heaven is that all your choices will lead to an eternity of happiness and fulfillment. You will not want for anything in Heaven.

[@nothingtodo58]

@@mickdonedee1 Off topic.

[@mickdonedee1]

@@nothingtodo58 I think you'll find that your question can be answered either scientifically with the concept of superdeterminism or theologically with the concept of predestination. Both concepts challenge the idea of free-will.

[@nomopayn]

To read the Bible without horror and still believe that The Old Testament God is the Universal God of love requires us to undo everything that is tender, sympathizing, and benevolent in the heart of man. And the sacrifice I must make in my heart to believe in such a God. Speaking for myself, if I had no other evidence that the Bible is fabulous, than the sacrifice I must make to believe it to be true, that alone would be sufficient to determine my choice" taken from the pen of Thomas Paine from his book The Age Of Reason

[@DwayneShaw1]

_ Old Testament or New Testament (and Jesus too) IT'S THE SAME GOD “Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half of the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we call it the word of a demon than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind. - Thomas Paine (Age Of Reason) “We do not admit the authority of the church with respect to its pretended infallibility, its manufactured miracles, its setting itself up to forgive sins. It was by propagating that belief and supporting it with fire that she kept up her temporal power.” - Thomas Paine ( Rights of Man) “All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.” - Thomas Paine (Age Of Reason) “Take away from Genesis the belief that Moses was the author, on which only the strange belief that it is the word of God has stood, and there remains nothing of Genesis but an anonymous book of stories, fables, and traditionary or invented absurdities, or of downright lies.” - Thomas Paine (Age Of Reason)

[@baronagony4767]

I remember watching an episode of Unsolved Mysteries when some guy said he died and went to Hell then was briefly in Heaven. He described it as the greatest physical ecstasy he ever felt. Little me then thought "so Heaven is being doped up to the point where you don't care?"

[@adamrspears1981]

Praising GOD forever & ever, non-stop sounds more like hell to me.

[@Konsciencia1111]

Thanks!

[@jezebelvibes]

Thank you!

[@Konsciencia1111]

@jezebelvibes You are welcome, sweetheart! Take care

[@badger1296]

Thanks Kristi: You are a great woman with a beautiful mind! ✊♀️❤️‍🔥

[@badger1296]

I'm sorry if that was too much praise. 🤣

[@EmpyrionBlackthorn]

Glad you are free. I love your channel.

[@KyloGram]

I was very hung up on the question of “what’s stopping some human, or some angel from sinning in the new heaven/new earth and messing everything up all over again” when I was in like middle school/high school. It was the first big theological issue I had that I never got a satisfying answer to. It was always just the tried and not-very-true excuse of “You just won’t want to sin.” Well that never stopped Adam and Eve, or Lucifer.

[@norwalltino]

Always great, so clarifying

[@alphaalvey5029]

I love this. Thanks Kristi. You’re the bomb!

[@mikewiitala9462]

If, as a Christian, I took my greatest pleasure in helping those who suffer, wouldn't I wish to go to hell to continue my work? Surely there would be no one in need of help in heaven. Heaven would deny me my greatest pleasure.

[@Rim990]

They always tell you to read the Bible but when you do and you find contradiction in the word they look at you like you don’t have faith or your not believing hard enough or you’re not praying enough.

[@MrStephen-v7c]

imagine 80 thousand days of praising Jesus Now imagine 800 trillion years Now imagine eternity

[@Dan_C604]

I already quit on day one after yawning so badly with those boring hymns….. haha

[@MrStephen-v7c]

@@Dan_C604 ''I miss going to the movies''

[@DwayneShaw1]

the average life span is about 30,000 days

[@MrStephen-v7c]

​@@DwayneShaw1 Give it all to the lordt

[@lorifiedler13]

​@Dan_C604 Day 1? More like minute 1. I belong to a UCC. In the past 5 or so years we have people waving their arms while singing. I.. just... cant.

[@maryna.angelpa]

Kristi, thank you for your content. I'm still at the process of deconstruction. I can't thank enough!

[@Chuck-se5hh]

You are doing an enormous service to rational thinking in accurately and honestly debunking Yawheh from the image of perfection and supreme authority that he pompously cherishes for himself, in this video as well as in all your others. Yawheh has much that he ought to be ashamed of himself for.

[@dagg310]

"fallen angels" contradicts the theory of a perfect heaven. if heaven was perfect there would be no such thing as fallen angels

[@effortless4588]

Where did you hear angels are perfect, what verse

[@Isaac-hm6ih]

​@effortless4588 regardless of whether it's in the book, most christianities say their god is perfect. A logical extrapolation of that is that his creations are all perfect. Therefore angels, generally held to be his direct creations, are perfect. As is the snake in Eden, but that's a different argument.

[@DarqueSyde66]

I agree with you 100% that Christians are conflating free will with the ability to make a choice. Those are two very different things. Excellent video! I’m glad you’re safe out there and that the hurricane didn’t cause too much damage for you.

[@richardmcquade6658]

Questioning and exploring ideas is so human. Keep it up and think for yourself.

[@blumoon131]

I remember as a Christian working my mind into knots trying to rationalize an all-knowing god who granted us free will while he still remained in complete control over everything. You have to make up so many exceptions and special rules to even try to make it work that it always becomes "unbiblical" one way or another. Now as an ex-believer, not only am I much happier not having to trick myself into jumping through hoops trying to make an irrational concept work, but I also just stopped giving a damn about free will arguments altogether. Theist, determinist, whatever bullshit you want to fall back on, the point is that the god of the bible is not real and neither does it control you.

[@javk8673]

@ 18:00 Ooooooooh girl the Christians gon be so mad at u ! The questions you ask are truly so good.

[@AlexThomas-hq1dn]

Always happy to see your videos 😊

[@SoundLegion]

At first at the end when you were asking, what is it god does to us that makes us want to change, I had the thought of well maybe he just gives us more information, like enlightens us to certain truths or makes us more aware of things we were not aware of but then I was reading the comments and someone said something about there Grandmother in hell baking pies without an oven lol and that made me think, there is no awareness I could ever imagine that would make me okay with knowing loved ones and any other humans at that, would be out there somewhere burning for eternity in hell, I could never be happy so therefore, even if God were to give awareness, there would still be some form of mind control or lack of FREE WILL in order for me to even be happy at all. I mean as a parent if I was still a christian and knowing my children are not and we all die and im in heaven with God but they are burning forever in hell...uhhh do i need to say more, i will go burn with them seriously ... love this one Kristi

[@jezebelvibes]

Your points about awareness are spot on. It's almost as if we get LESS awareness in Heaven. Which really just seems like a downgrade in some ways.

[@Cocreatewithus]

Agreed. I've thought about this as well.

[@sillybilly44444444]

Interesting video: thanks for sharing. My issue with free will is this: if God knows the future that means he knew what we would choose when he created us. Therefore, whatever we decide is still predetermined/indirectly controlled by God and is not a result of our own will.

[@KD-hi6hh]

I found Misfit Mountain on Facebook and donated $50.00 - Thx for presenting them, I will donate more soon...

[@TimBarr-e8p]

Thanks to the Visdom of Kristi and her apostate friends I now see that I was Determined to believe in Free Will...All hail the horned one...Who was Determined to reject this God Nonsense...

[@MrRezillo]

I just donated; I feel good about it. Now I'll watch your vid. Thanks, Kristi

[@EchavarriaJr]

Great topic Kristi! Thanks for covering it!

[@Sind89]

This question was the start of my deconstruction journey, so I'm glad I could hear your take on it.

[@immortalsofar5314]

I wrote a god program once. It didn't do much, it just kept thanking me for writing it.

[@johngomes4278]

This question is so relevant ! Thank you for covering it my friend 🎉

[@eysteinemberland128]

I have asked my lovely Christian sister (who is going to heaven, and I’m not) if she (when she gets there) would ask God to open the gates so we all could be together. She could not answer yes to that, and that makes me sad. Maybe it’s because she will not have any free will there.

[@CarolineIronwill]

If Christians ask if I want to go to heaven, I say "I hope not, too many fundie weirdos there. I'll pass". Jeffrey Dahmer and Ted Bundy both converted to Christianity before death, but I lied about my height by a half an inch on my dating profile. They are going to heaven, but I'm spending eternity being tortured in hell. Makes perfect sense.

[@loledssdafd3429]

Well this is mainly a problem that priests talk more than they should, neither them nor anyone else knows if in that case any of you would go to heaven or not. We can use the bible and try to estimate what would like be the case, in a Case like Bundy, we could safely assume he will not be in heaven. Because it requires you to sincerely repent and according to the bible god knows the heart. Its unlikely he underwent such a transformation especially when we know his last interviews that show that he played a game. When it comes to your half inch dating profile, why you think this would put you into hell? The bible doesnt claim WHEN you have to repent. The only Sin that is unforgivable is Blaspheming the holyspirit. According to the bible we all will get judged, and doesnt say anywhere that you cannot repent while your judgement takes place. The bible claims God is 100% just and loving, if thats the case then i am sure he will understand your concerns.

[@effortless4588]

They converted but did they repent at all? Also Why not just want to go to heaven instead, I don't get it why do you say you're spending eternity in that place

[@CarolineIronwill]

@@effortless4588 getting away from rude fundies, that's why. Why would I want to go to heaven to spend eternity with judgy evangelicals who fought to take away my bodily autonomy and condemn my queer daughter. No thanks.

[@loledssdafd3429]

@@CarolineIronwill I guess you are American

[@CarolineIronwill]

@loledssdafd3429 nope, I'm Canadian

[@bht96]

The main reason why I started to deconvert is when I thought about my family members who aren’t Christian burning in hell for eternity. Then I thought about the rest of the world. That made me angry at God and I found it harder and harder to pray to him. I began to actually hate God.

[@jaflenbond7854]

ATHEISM and RELIGIONS versus the CREATOR and JESUS CHRIST Atheists who trick and deceive their own families and neighbors to believe their LIE and false claim that the Creator is unworthy and undeserving to be honored and respected as the True and Sovereign GOD and Jehovah's Witnesses, SDAs, Mormons, Catholics, Methodists, Baptists, Born Again Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and fanatics of all kinds of Religions who trick and deceive their own families and neighbors to believe their LIES and false teachings and doctrines about "hellfire", "Armageddon", "rapture", "Trinity", "immortality of the souls", "afterlife", and "reincarnation" are clearly the LIARS, cruel, merciless, deceitful, hateful, and rebellious persons on earth who are obviously opposed, against, and will never ever accept the TRUTHS that - 1. all persons on earth who rejected Atheism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, and all kinds of Religions as worthless and useless, no value whatsoever and willingly submit instead to the authority of Jesus Christ in their obedience to what's written in Matthew 28: 18 are clearly the loving, kind, respectful, and submissive WORSHIPPERS of the CREATOR on earth who are all worthy and deserving of the loving, kind, and merciful Creator's favor and reward of ETERNAL LIFE and existence on earth without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death as written in Revelation 21: 3, 4. 2. The teachings of Jesus Christ about the "Kingdom of God' and "Resurrection of the Dead" written in Luke 4: 43 and John 11: 25, 26 are the guarantee that all the loving, kind, respectful, and submissive WORSHIPPERS of the CREATOR who died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Job, Ruth, Naomi, King David, Jesus Christ's Followers and disciples, and many others will all be RESURRECTED back to life in the right and proper time so they can happily and peacefully live and exist on earth forever as submissive and obedient subjects and citizens of the "KINGDOM of GOD" and fully enjoy the eternal love, kindness, goodness, compassions, generosities, favors, and blessings of the Creator and his Christ for eternity under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as the Creator's Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth as written in Revelation 11: 15.

[@Cincyboy56]

Really good! You’re a terrific communicator 👍

[@stevesmachineempire]

I like listening to Kristi. Glad you survived Milton. I'm gonna do whatever I want now.

[@jacksonrodrigues7533]

God shall never be mocked!

[@adams13245]

@@jacksonrodrigues7533 Yahweh is a megalomaniacal narcissistic tyrant.

[@whitewatersarah9824]

You make me feel like I am not alone

[@leafe-lu3jd]

Okay I know I am going to sound like a fan girl right now bit eeeeep! Kristy is back! *starts doing zoomies with her cat all of a sudden*

[@jezebelvibes]

LOL! tell your cat I said hi!

[@legendoflex6881]

As a past Christian I had two issues with Heaven. One. I struggled to understand why a demon or Satan could not be forgiven for their sins and return to heaven. Some said it was because they had no free will, but I would point out that they had enough free will to rebel against god…And even if they didn’t have free will does that mean god temporarily granted it so that they could do what they truly wanted to, or did god push them to do this against their will? Either way it all felt unfair that if a fallen angel wanted to redeem themselves that it was impossible to return to heaven, while us humans continued to make mistakes but were allowed to. Two…I feared that once I went to heaven that I wouldn’t be me anymore. The part of me that would be sad that my family members and other people were suffering in hell would have to die in order for me to never be sad in heaven…I’d have to be a less caring and compassionate person for my loved ones and be more judgmental like God in order to be content with their suffering

[@jaflenbond7854]

ATHEISM and RELIGIONS versus the CREATOR and JESUS CHRIST Atheists who trick and deceive their own families and neighbors to believe their LIE and false claim that the Creator is unworthy and undeserving to be honored and respected as the True and Sovereign GOD and Jehovah's Witnesses, SDAs, Mormons, Catholics, Methodists, Baptists, Born Again Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and fanatics of all kinds of Religions who trick and deceive their own families and neighbors to believe their LIES and false teachings and doctrines about "hellfire", "Armageddon", "rapture", "Trinity", "immortality of the souls", "afterlife", and "reincarnation" are clearly NOT Worshippers of the Creator and NOT Followers of Jesus Christ too but the LIARS, cruel, merciless, deceitful, hateful, and rebellious persons on earth who are obviously opposed, against, and will never ever accept the TRUTHS that - 1. all persons on earth who rejected Atheism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, and all kinds of Religions as worthless and useless, no value whatsoever and willingly submit instead to the authority of Jesus Christ in their obedience to what's written in Matthew 28: 18 are clearly the loving, kind, respectful, and submissive WORSHIPPERS of the CREATOR on earth who are all worthy and deserving of the loving, kind, and merciful Creator's favor and reward of ETERNAL LIFE and existence on earth without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death as written in Revelation 21: 3, 4. 2. The teachings of Jesus Christ about the "Kingdom of God' and "Resurrection of the Dead" written in Luke 4: 43 and John 11: 25, 26 are the guarantee that all the loving, kind, respectful, and submissive WORSHIPPERS of the CREATOR who died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Job, Ruth, Naomi, King David, Jesus Christ's Followers and disciples, and many others will all be RESURRECTED back to life in the right and proper time so they can happily and peacefully live and exist on earth forever as submissive and obedient subjects and citizens of the "KINGDOM of GOD" and fully enjoy the eternal love, kindness, goodness, compassions, generosities, favors, and blessings of the Creator and his Christ for eternity under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as the Creator's Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth as written in Revelation 11: 15.

[@georgelutchendorf9519]

I'm happy that you're making content again.

[@PacesIII]

Imagine being punished for doing what you were preordained to do.

[@shaynerushton214]

We could argue that god may give us choices, but then we would have to realize that he knows what choice we would make, so if his options don’t include choosing him, he already knows that, chooses not to offer that choice, and then punishes you for doing what he knew you would do while refusing to give you an actual chance. Just trying to put logic to anything related to god physically hurts from the reaching one must do.

[@dasbus9834]

The Bible is about obedience and not autonomy. The "free will" claim is just a bad excuse for why God never shows up, and of course "why bad things happen" 🙄 But it raises all kind of issues with the rest of how that religion is supposed to work. None of that makes sense. And of course, if that God knows everything we're doing in advance, then there goes free will anyway.

[@James_no_hell]

@@dasbus9834 "freewill" is an erroneous; unBiblical explanation.

[@rdm3805]

Gosh, these bronze aged writers didn't think it all through thoroughly before they started a religion.

[@BuddyHoyt]

That simple observation explains everything written in the Bible.

[@kidslovesatan34]

True, its ad hoc construction clearly shows and explains why it doesn't make any sense, and why it crumbles upon critical examination.

[@adams13245]

@@BuddyHoyt They can't even stick to one first woman. First a woman is created with Adam- then, next friggin sentence she's forgotten about, as Adam is taken to Eden alone. Then all the animals are created a second time, cause ??? Then Adam names them. Then a second "first" woman is made with a completely different method. These people had more than 2000 years to read this and realize their mistakes, but this is still in the Bible. They even have a fan fic about the first first woman, who is named Lilith, and defies Yahweh and Adam, but that still isn't canon. And the fan base is insufferable.

[@SvetlanaMarkovic-xt6ee]

I listen far too many people's stories on their NDE and what they all have in common is that they say they didn't want to come back here on Earth.That the love,peace,acceptance and happiness was unbelievable and indescribable to our mind here.I don't belive in religion but I like to think there is more to life that we will learn once we die.

[@franciswalsh8416]

So much more evidence that this is all man-made and anecdotal. Passed on from man to man in a "Whisper down the Lane" fashion. And sometimes conflicts and contradictions are almost ludicrous. Great presentation, thanks!!

[@adams13245]

@@franciswalsh8416 They couldn't even get their creation myth straight! First a man and woman are created at the same time. Then the man is taken to Eden and the first first woman is completely forgotten. Then a bunch of animals are recreated, after which a second "first" woman is created. So what happened to the first first woman?