Dead Man's Chest: A Patchy Pirate Fight

[@Shifterwizard]

I think a lot of the Pirates movies have failed because they didn't recognize how the character archetype that is Jack Sparrow really WORKS in Pirate films. What makes a Pirate film actually entertaining. Jack Sparrow, much like Long John Silver, is supposed to play a more untrustworthy secondary role. He worked in the first movie specifically because he WASN'T a main character, nor was he a main villain, so we had no idea what to expect out of him. It made him unpredictable and dangerous, while also allowing him to be funny and the comedy relief in ways that a main character normally can't for an action/adventure movie. I strongly suspect that that is what makes the pirate genre WORK, and why so many people have trouble with creating popular pirate movies. The pirate genre is held together by the unpredictable and dangerous *secondary* character, who the audience has no idea which way they're gonna go. But movie writers keep focusing on making that character take center stage more and more, which makes them more and more predictable since we know what to expect out of main characters in our movies. Many failed pirate movies didn't have an unpredictable secondary character at all, and just had the pirates as straight-up classic villains. I dunno, just a bit of theorizing on my end.

[@Mambo1061]

I think I’ve heard it said the problem is main characters need motivations to drive the plot forward and grow. Jack was never written as a character with a motivation beyond hedonism, mischief, and freedom, things he already has on and off. Every time they try to give him a past or some protracted inner life it falls flat because he can’t be the character he is and function like other characters.

[@ianism3]

yeah, exactly right. Jack Sparrow is a trickster character type, which is something that shows up all over the world in stories (look it up!). probably the most obvious other example is Loki in the MCU. the first Pirates movie was successful largely because Depp's character stole a lot of the scenes with his insane acting and Jack's shenanigans, and brought unpredictability to a story that was really about Emily and Will. that's something they fucked up in the other films in the series by making him a protagonist: you can't steal a scene if you're the focus of it. and it's really difficult to insert unpredictability into your own story, as it just makes the plot a random mess or a predictable slog, see PotC: At World's End and every subsequent PotC film. the only example I can think of off the top of my head where it's done well is Ragnar Lothbroek from the show Vikings, though he doesn't fit that well into the trickster archetype because he's quite ambitious, not silly at all, etc

[@Brievel]

I'm actually working on a swashbuckling pirate drama romance novel thing and... I hadn't thought about it that way before but you've definitely given me food for thought, thank you.

[@morgand.3809]

"And while Jack is tremendous fun in the first film particularly as a reactor character because he pulls focus from the main plot in unexpected ways, that doesn't work so quite well when he is the main plot." That's it, you nailed it. In one sentence you described my feelings about the whole series. I confess I never expected to find someone else who felt that way.

[@charliesnark6535]

Yes! I'm glad some other people understand. A lot of people disagree because they like Jack, but he really shouldn't be the main character, he's much better as a supporting character

[@joshuadoll9000]

There are some great video essays about the Pirates series that nail this point home, the first movie was so great because Will and Elizabeth were the protagonists while Jack was a supporting character. While he was a fantastic character, he just doesn't work as a protagonist. That's where every film after it fell off, they knew people loved jack and tried to push more of him but they did it in the wrong way.

[@brianl8481]

Between Jack, Will, and Norrington, only one is really a Pirate of the Caribbean, and thus should be the focus of the movie.

[@joshuadoll9000]

@@brianl8481 Just because it's about pirates doesn't necessarily mean the protagonist has to be a pirate. The movie does focus on pirates and their fight to lift the curse, just not Jack all the time. Look at Alien, the movie is about the alien but told to us through the perspective of the crew members. The subject of the movie does not necessarily mean that is what has to be the protagonist.

[@arandombard1197]

Yup, Jack is the supporting character. Will was the main character in the first film, Jack was important but his motivations don't drive the story. He has his own vendetta, but it's not a revenge story, it's a love story. Will has to rescue his love and grow a big enough pair of balls to finally tell her how he feels. Elizabeth needs to break out of the expectations that society has for her and be honest with herself. THAT'S the story of Pirates of the Carribean.

[@VegimorphtheMovieBoy]

I was always confused by Will's motivation in this scene. He wants to save his Dad but he's conflicting with Jack, who wants leverage over Davy Jones. If he has leverage over Davy Jones, couldn't he force him to release Will's dad and that way they could work together against Norrington? That being said, totally agree about Norrington! If you watch the deleted scenes for the trilogy and listen to the writers' commentaries, they were trying to make Norrington into a really interesting and sympathetic guy, but had to cut everything down for time.

[@peteguion5409]

Very good point, but I see it from the other direction. It's not why doesn't Will help Jack out, but why Jack doesn't help Will out. Will won't support Jack because Jack is, well, who he is. Completely untrustworthy. However, Jack knows Will to be an honorable person, and if Will agreed to help Jack then Jack should expect Will to uphold his end without question. And in a sense, that scheme is totally fitting in with Jack's character - why fight two opponents when you can gang up on one and also misdirection.

[@AcornPlays]

That's so interesting, in the version we got Norrington is really smug and unlikeable.

[@hairflames]

Well from Will's point of view Jack sent him to slavery on the Flying Dutchman, so why would he want to work with him?

[@robbieking4070]

Erik Carlson I don’t know if it’s possible to blackmail Jones into freeing a member of the crew. Bill told Elizabeth in the third movie the only way he could be saved from the curse is if Jones were killed. Granted, I don’t know if that had been decided by the filmmakers before World’s End came out .

[@JainaSoloB312]

@@hairflames Yeah I think it's definitely just that Will can't risk trusting Jack with something as important as his father's freedom Which makes their cooperation in the next film all the more satisfying

[@BarbarianGod]

11:00 would've been hilarious to keep focusing on will and norrington while seeing jack tumble down the roof, then walk off and fall down a grave in the background and keep following them onto the wheel and all the way until they pick him up with it :D

[@AnkhAnanku]

Jesus that would have been great. Would it be better to have those pivotal moments in Jacks escape play out in the background during longer cut closeups/character moments of Will and Norrington? Or during longer takes on action-packed exchanges? Either way it’s asking the audience to pay attention to two things at once and there must be some general rule to how you simultaneously develop and distract the drama...

[@whittlyarts]

now THIS, i would love to see

[@willowtdog6449]

It would have made the fall in the grave much funnier as well!

[@thegardenofeatin5965]

@@AnkhAnanku The screenwriters would never have given up the chance to have that really hamfisted foreshadowing moment of Jack landing in a grave. "He's gonna die, you see, and he knows it, so when he falls into a suspiciously fresh grave at the site of a long abandoned mission, we have to have an understated reaction from him. 'oh.'"

[@trumanhopper2493]

I always interpreted the shots with Elizabeth, and then the other three in the background, as a way of showing how seemingly inconsequential their sword fight felt for Elizabeth. And in that regard, I feel it did serve a purpose. Because the epic music would stop playing, and you were just left looking at three people in the background, out of focus, flailing their swords about. Which is how one of the protagonists of the movie felt about it all

[@thegardenofeatin5965]

The commentary from the DVD has the director/writer whatever talking about two major things: That they wanted to do a 3-man swordfight, and that this movie might as well be called "Pirates of the Caribbean: Not Enough Swords" because there's a LOT of scenes throughout the movie when someone steals a sword from someone else, someone finds their sword is missing, said someone reaching and drawing someone else's sword, culminating in Elizabeth, Pintel and Ragetti swapping swords against Davy Jones' men in the jungle. They put a lot of effort into THOSE details and so the actual swordplay boils down to the old George Lucas "They Fight."

[@CaptainPeregrin]

Agreed on Norrington. Everyone else just got more and more backstabby, but Norrington was always a beacon of decency.

[@JillBearup]

Norrington Deserved Better: in this essay I will...😁

[@creativehoney4753]

@@JillBearup I would watch the heck out of that video essay!

[@L16htW4rr10r]

@@JillBearup Yes please

[@tdtv2855]

Jill Bearup His death in the third movie felt very forced. Honestly if he joined Jones’s crew would have been cool. Since he could have figured that when Jones dies because it was inevitable he could be freed and could stay as maybe quartermaster of the pearl since he sides with the pirates at the end.

[@animefreak122ist8]

I mean he stole the heart from jack’s jar just for selfish reasons and was responsible for the conflict of the third movie but go off

[@craylik5589]

Completely unrelated but I love how will develops some of Jack's strange mannerisms by being in contact with him through the movies. It's so great and hilarious.

[@kabobawsome]

I was actually going to comment that every character slowly becoming Jack Lite over time is one of the series' most annoying tendencies. I mean, it makes story sense for Will, the whole character arcs for Will and Jack from the first movie was that they needed to learn from each other (which actually enda up making it *more* annoying, because Jack doesn't adopt ANY of Will's tendencies, and, in fact, becomes *more* ridiculous over time, but I digress). But then the series also does it to Elizabeth. And Norrington. And literally everyone else.

[@craylik5589]

@@kabobawsome I don't think that the character arc for Jack in the first movie was to learn from Will, I would say his arc is Han Solo's in New Hope, bringing out the rogue's heart of gold. Ending up doing the right thing was character development for Jack, but he didn't necessarily learn that from Will, at most he was inspired. After all Jack is already a fully developed adult with years of experience behind his back, whether you find the conclusions at which he arrived right or not, and Will's the skilled albeit still young lass who's entering a whole new world where he knows nothing. Jack's *kinda* the mentor figure in their relationship. *Kinda.* So I really think that Will developing some of the mannerisms is pretty cute and well made. At no point is it outright pointed out that he's like Jack, he just sometimes moves or thinks a little bit like him, and in my opinion it's great. I do agree with Jack getting more ridiculous over time tho, I would say it still works with the second and third movies, since he's literally going insane through all the second and the first half of the third. The beginning of the second goes to show how deranged Jack is becoming that even his crew notices and all throughout the movie he gets increasingly more desperate with Davy Jones after his ass and in the third movie he begins literally stranded alone in a no man's place trying (and failing) to cope with it, so I'm personally ok with that. When push comes to shove he still gets serious after all, look at the ending of the third. After the third... Well... As for Elizabeth and Norrington, I may be wrong but I honestly don't remember it. Sorry. I can concede that Elizabeth does act like Jack in certain moments. But the emphasis is in the acting. It doesn't really go further from there. She acts like him to get herself out of some situations but when she's being herself she doesn't really have any of Jack's strange movements, like Will does without thinking. At least that I recall. And as for Norrington? He's just fucking wasted in the second movie. I don't think being drunk is a characteristic specific to only Jack, is it? Besides that, even though I would have loved to have more time for him in the movies, which is a shame, from what I remember he is Norrington from the beginning until his eventual sacrifice. Which I have to say I personally love. What a great guy. And as for the rest, maybe you could give a couple more names? :S Gibbs comes to mind, he does indeed turn from Jack's sidekick into a cheap copycat in the fourth movie. Which is incredibly jarring coming from the place he comes in the previous ones. But nothing else comes to head. Specially in regards to the first three... The problem that I find is that they created an incredibly charismatic character and after the first movie, instead of recognising that he worked partly because he wasn't constantly in the spotlight, they couldn't escape his shadow and made him the main piece of the story. Which didn't really go well with either... It's not so much everybody is tuning into Jack as much as Jack is literally bloody everywhere, nobody can fucking escape him. I still think the second and third movies are solid pieces but after that it gets so goddamn ridiculous that there's really no defense...

[@breawilldraw]

It is SO validating to find someone else who stans Norrington, you are and continue to be a treasure

[@jordanfleming7022]

I always found it kinda weird that Norrington turned on Will so quickly, missing his chance to get the key. The scene would have been better had Norrington seen what Jack was doing, and refuse to be goaded. Instead he could snatch the key off Jack, push him off the roof, and then turn to finish off Will now that he has the key. This’d allow Will to re-enter the fight, touch on Norrington’s vendetta, and set up the wheel scene. It’s then make more sense for Jack to chase after/get picked up by the wheel, to get the key BACK.

[@OhNoTheFace]

Anger and rage does not necessarily makes sense. In fact, that's when people makes their dumbest decisions :P

[@StarlitSeafoam]

I agree wholeheartedly. When I saw that scene in the theater for the first time, I remember feeling it was contrived. Killing Will would absolutely destroy Elizabeth, something Norrington would never do, as shown by how gallantly he accepted her rejection of him at the end of the first movie. Show us Norrington's anger some other way, but not by having him let the thing he wants most in the entire world slip from his grasp. The thing he is LITERALLY WILLING TO BETRAY ELIZABETH FOR. I like your version of the scene much better.

[@DAOzz83]

Ah, but then Jack wouldn't have been the focus of the scene! And we couldn't have _that_ now, could we? /Sarcasm.

[@Nerdygoddess]

My personal thoughts on Pirates - don't over explain the chaos character. Part of what made Jack so interesting was the "How does he think of that?" aspect. Sure getting inside their head can be done well, but they can also loose their shine when you see behind the curtain. Like finding out the magician kills one dove and uses a spare for the trick

[@whittlyarts]

THEY KILL THEIR BIRDS?!?!?

[@justastaythatwillnotbename2990]

@@whittlyarts like same

[@CaptHayfever]

Wait, wouldn't it be easier (not to mention cheaper) to swap in a fake dove for the "killing" & then bring back the real one at the end?

[@Nerdygoddess]

@@CaptHayfever Think 1800s - no one cared about the animals then, just use bread to bribe them to you. Now a days that shit is illegal

[@noatrope]

@@whittlyarts"Every great magic trick consists of three parts, or acts. The first act is called the Pledge. The magician shows you something ordinary: a deck of cards, a bird or a man. He shows you this object. Perhaps he asks you to inspect it to see if it is indeed real, unaltered, normal. But of course...it probably isn't. The second act is called the Turn. The magician takes the ordinary something and makes it do something extraordinary. Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it, because of course you're not really looking. You don't really want to know. You want to be fooled. But you wouldn't clap yet. Because making something disappear isn't enough; you have to bring it back. That's why every magic trick has a third act, the hardest part - the part we call *The Prestige*."

[@owengreig1088]

YES! Another Norrington fan! All my friends look at me in shock when I side with Norrington.

[@rmcbean5699]

Yup, focus on Jack was the big problem. Jack Sparrow is the greatest supporting character ever, he made everyone think he was the main character in Pirates 1. The mistake they made was actually making him a main character in the later movies.

[@ObaREX]

So glad I'm not the only one that loves Norrington.

[@SithCats]

Norrington has the most interesting character arc in the series.

[@noizetv4240]

Funny. This video has granted me the perfect example as to how opinions shape a persons viewing experience. Jill found Pirates 2 on whole a bit of a patch work, I found Pirates 2 an amazing adventure. Difference? I love Jack, Jill loves Norrington. Beauty is very much in the eye of the beholder, aye?

[@JillBearup]

Aye! I found it...generally enjoyable but too long for my taste. (Don't ask what I thought about the third one XD)

[@noizetv4240]

@@JillBearup I'm sure we'll all find out soon enough what you thought. :)

[@tf2junky476]

Aye riddle man throw me a riddle

[@noizetv4240]

@@tf2junky476 What's black, white and rank all over?

[@tf2junky476]

@@noizetv4240 well shit idk

[@madiis18account]

That whole roof bit where Jack falls into the grave would've been so much better if they'd just switched the focus, had the fight in the foreground & Jack falling into the grave in the background

[@George_M_]

The commentary track for the first movie with the actors for Norrington and Elizabeth is such fun. Both were underused.

[@ZwarteKonijn]

It's so awesome to see more people thinking Norrington is one of the best characters, I thought I was the only one who loved his character.

[@actress5256]

This is so interesting! I’d love to hear your thoughts on Will and Elizabeth’s wedding vows fight in the 3rd movie! I know lots of people don’t love that movie but Barbosa officiating and will and Elizabeth getting married mid sword fight just brings me joy 😂

[@idawantu838]

"Everyone's in love with Elizabeth for some reason." I mean...... I can buy that.

[@tishym.3820]

I wonder if the fight between Will and Norrington would have a different meaning if the camera focused on their fight on the roof and in the far background Jack is seen with the key and falling into the open grave 😂😂😂

[@Inlelendri]

Also, congrats on getting a sponsor. If you've had one before, apologies

[@Gamdursol]

Never knew why I didn't like this (long) scene, but this explains it wonderfully

[@frog8220]

"It's lord now, actually." Lord Cutler Beckett. "Captain!" Captain Jack Sparrow. I like your videos on PotC so much! I recommend both yours and Filmentos videos on PotC, and both provide such a nice additional insight into the movies!

[@exiledhero3791]

The thing I remember the most is “I got a jar of diiirrrrt, I got a jar of dirrt

[@moviehermit5631]

Part of me thinks that the opening fight on the beach may have been meant to be choppy. Kinda showing what these epic fights look like from on external point of view as just some people rough-housing. Plus, not every fight is very elegant, so it kinda makes the rest of the fight at the watermill and the big wheel seem even cooler, especially when the first fight took place on an open beach with no proper scenery for a fight

[@chizzieshark]

I agree. I think the fight on the beach is deliberately sloppy, because at this point Jack, Will and Norrington are having a stupid playground fight driven by testosterone (which is why Elizabeth is yelling at them).

[@thekrispiestkreme5609]

You know what was really great in that movie? Elizabeth and the comedy pirates vs the Davy jones crew. Having to do combat with a single sword between 3 fighters vs a whole crew of opposition and trying to protect a mcguffin is really interesting. They go against the nature of their roles by being competent, serious, and effective with the tools provided (even Elizabeth whom you’d assume would be shaky with a sword with the amount of non-experience she has in the movies so far) and does the 3 way duel sequence a lot better than the 3 main characters odly enough. Your focus was largely on the sword and the chest, seeing who had the offence and that willingness to work together and be in sych because you didn’t want to die, it was a neat experience in putting aside character motivation for the moment to just- survive, and does a neat callback to the anti-climatic ending of that workshop fight when the comedy pirates remove themselves by returning to character, abandoning Elizabeth and the chest, and ending the fight in an almost ridiculously frustrating way.

[@jackson857]

Dead Man's Chest is actually my favourite of the Pirate's movie. Simply because imo it's the funniest. So much comedy gold in this movie.

[@id3794]

I watched these movies as a kid and was predictably confused most of the time but I do remember just feeling especially confused over the point of Jack Sparrow’s character since he was fun as a wild card but hard to root for as a protagonist since like, he just seemed to exist to make everyone else’s lives harder lol. I also had no idea who the scruffy guy fighting Will and Jack in this movie even was lmao. Now I have to rewatch these movies and hopefully understand things better. Norrington seems like an interesting character! I just remembered him as “stern antagonist guy with white wig” and didn’t make the connection for some reason.

[@id3794]

Also the skeleton pirates in the first movie definitely gave me nightmares lol.

[@trishsoha]

Norrington character summary: "lawful-good tendencies"

[@emmajochum8682]

2:40 THANK YOU!!!!!! He's been my favorite since the beginning and no one ever likes him

[@slightlyembittered]

‘It’s not terrible, but it could have been amazing.’ You should put that on a shirt. I feel like that’s a core complaint with so many sequels, movies, and other projects. People can see the potential and know that it when unrealized.

[@theleakypen8662]

Someone on tumblr once described Norrington as an Austen protagonist in a Disney theme park ride movie and they are so right. I really do think this fight is a great microcosm of the movie as a whole and you've basically broken down why it didn't work for me to the extent that I never watched any of the subsequent sequels (and then I found out in the last 2 years that I missed out on PIRATE KING ELIZABETH so uh... idk i might watch later movies at SOME POINT)

[@YossarianVanDriver]

I really enjoy this channel's swing to a lot of stage-fighting content. It's always nice to hear about someone's special interest when they're knowledgeable about it.

[@StarlitSeafoam]

YES WELCOME TO THE NORRINGTON FAN CLUB

[@TheCrayonMaster]

Yes!!! I love Norrington's character 💕

[@sarasamaletdin4574]

I think the first section by the beach is just meant to be more fun before more serious character and dramatic moments (this huge fight isn’t even the climax of the movie, it’s on the Black Pearl later so the tone can’t get too serious immediately). And it is shown in Elizabeth’s perspective since it’s setting up is thinking her motives for climax (where she kills Jack by tricking him) and showing her problem solving ways (its callback to first film where she pretended to faint on purpose on climax to let Jack escape since her father and Norrington watched her).

[@nk_3332]

I actually prefer the Elizabeth, Pintel and Raggetti fight. They start with Elizabeth completely at their mercy (they're armed, she isn't) and as soon as they see the Dutchman's crew, they declare a truce as clearly as they can, the two men hand their swords to Elizabeth and she shows their faith is not undeserved.

[@MissCaraMint]

I agree. I like that fight. It shows the three of them being forced into work together and trust each other. Which is such a massive change from the first movie. I also think it ties into that scene where she’s just standing and yelling at the three guys who are fighting each other. Like you know they are being the main characters who are doing their own thing while she’s being ignored. Again. So then she ends up going on the own damn adventure. Which I actually find kind of cathartic after the first movie where she plays damsel in distress throughout.

[@noatrope]

@@MissCaraMintIt's a reprise of their very first scene together, where instead of Pintel and Ragetti threatening Elizabeth before kidnapping her from a closet, a greater boogeyman arrives and they panic and give her their weapons and abandon her

[@tomm.ymacleod9347]

I have always had an intense interest in Norrington, and your layout of his character here made me love him even more. Also that missed character moment, now that I know it’s there, will haunt my dreams.

[@myriamamyltia980]

I couldn't put words on Jack's narrative role on the first movie and why it was so different in the multiplie sequels but you said it ! "Jack is tremendous fun in the first film, particularly as a reactive character because he pulls focus froms the main plot in unexpected ways" VS "that doesn't work so well when he is the main plot". Yes ! Jack is better when he narratively function asa trickster, when he subverts the linearity of the plot, he is a narrative device for unexpected and subversive plot evolutions, which is what made the first movie so endearing. But when he is the plot, he loses that narrative utility that was on of the strenght of the first movie, when he is the plot there is nobody to make the plot exciting the way the character of Jack can. That's probably why I really loved the first movie, really liked the 2nd and the third ones, and don't exaclty like - but most importantly feel that Pirates of the Carrabean has lost what made it unique as a movie, and IT IS Jack, but not Jack as a character, Jack as a narrative tool - the ones where Jack is the hero. Jack loses his main strenght and what made him so endearing the moment he gets promoted to main character, and not "reactive character".

[@khajiitimanus7432]

So... in a nutshell, Dead Man's Chest could've perhaps done wondrously with a Lord of the Rings style extended edition?

[@griffinmoth]

I don't remember at what point I realized that Norrington was the most compelling character of the Pirates movies as a series but it's absolutely true and it has kept me up at night at least once. Poor guy, he deserved better. In universe and in editing.

[@intotheindie8821]

Probably my favorite thing from KH3 is the soundtrack and I definitely love the Caribbean's sailing/sailing battle music

[@l0stndamned]

I heard somewhere that Jack was originally supposed to be the only major returning character from the first film. Don't know how accurate that is, but if the scene was originally meant to be between Jack and two side-characters it would explain a bit.

[@ConnollyUK]

Would love you to do the Anakin vs Obiwan fight from Revenge of the Sith. Shadiversity called it one of the best movie fights of all time, and I would love to see your perspective of it!

[@bemasaberwyn55]

YES

[@oliverfalcon2868]

the beauty of this scene isnt the choreography.... it's the conflicts between the characters that help each of them towards their respected arcs

[@ryndanriley5348]

That "twirling" Simpson's quote made my day.

[@grimmriffer]

11.30 "Jack in the foreground". A reverse angle would have been good. We see the two fighting on the roof, they break apart for a moment, and their figures frame Jack in the distance striding away and falling into the hole, then the two resume their fight.

[@charlations]

I love how your talking about how bad the scene (and movie) was, how it could be improved, etc is just making me want to watch the movies again!!!! Honestly, this whole "fighting talk" playlist is basically becoming a "movies to re watch" bucket list, now... If only it wasn't 3:30 am.........

[@lextheweirdo9063]

“Elizabeth and the comedy pirates”

[@selty]

I can't remember where but there was a video detailing why the first one worked and the others didn't. Basically, you can't give Jack Sparrow the main role because he works by being the mysterious, ethically grey and comedic relief side character. It becomes a mess when you try to have Jack drive the entire plot.

[@psinjo]

It's actually the fight involving Elizabeth and the comic relief that I enjoy the most in this movie. to be clear. i don't think it's the BEST fight, but it is the most amusing to me. even though the comic relief is... the comic relief, and Elizabeth is expressly NOT set up as a capable fighter, i find the idea of multiple combatants needing to trade weapons back and forth because they are short handed a very amusing idea, and I would love to see that taken to a more 'swashbuckling' extreme, whether it be two characters with one sword fighting in perfect unison, or a completely rediculous, over the top, 5 people with 3 swords that they keep having to trade around as they fight off a drunken brawl.

[@donsample1002]

I recently rewatched this myself and spent much of the movie wondering if Kiera Knightley didn't want to work with Depp or Bloom. She's in hardly any scenes with either of them.

[@JillBearup]

I hadn’t noticed that till you mentioned it, but the script does seem to keep her away from all the other main characters for large chunks of time. Huh.

[@sarasamaletdin4574]

All three of them are on their own journeys (but do still have scenes together) and in next film they are a lot more together and these films were shot back to back. So I doubt it had anything to do with Keira.

[@birgitswinnen9516]

No she loves them she sounds very genuine in the audio comments of the first movie! :D

[@peglamphier4745]

@@sarasamaletdin4574 I agree. If one understood how screen writing works (and my novel writing partner IS a screen writer so I've learned a lot from her) one would know a writer isn't thinking about an actor's preferences. They're writing a story. And a second movie in what was at the time a 3 movie arc, would require the love interest to back off in the middle, to create tension for the third movie.

[@DAOzz83]

@@peglamphier4745 Screenwriters can think ( and write) whatever they want; If big box offices stars don't want to work together, they won't share many scenes, and that's that. That said, in this particular case there really isn't any evidence that any of these 3 were avoiding each other, so keeping them apart in "Dead Man's Chest" really was just about creating tension.

[@katherinealvarez9216]

0:11 Yeah I don't get that. I mean I love Elizabeth. I know Will loves Elizabeth but why is Jack interested?

[@metamaster646]

I always thought that jack wasnt interested in her romanticly, but more interested in getting her to find the chest. Hence why he jokes about with her to get her frustrated and more determined to find what shes looking for

[@AMoniqueOcampo]

It's really interesting how script and editing can affect how a scene will feel. This movie was fascinating to me, but it's not something I could feel like watching again because of the pacing.

[@TheSuzberry]

Monique Ocampo - I’ve see several fight fans argue that editing can make or break a fight.

[@maryk.cieslak9512]

i had never given much thought to this fight after watching it wayyyyy back in '06 or whenever this film came out. but this is just such excellent analysis, even on where it's ultimately lacking, that i feel the need to watch it again. keep doing these, i LOVE THEM!

[@rayn0577]

In Curse of the Black Pearl, Jack was the goofy side character. The sequels forgot this and made him a main character, a role he just wasn’t designed to fill.

[@volrosku.6075]

I agree with you fully on the roof near the mill wheel (C. 10:55). move it along jack makes his escape and while will is making some exclamation towards jack, we have a close up of Norrington's eyes and even under the main dialog of wheel jack's words as if playing in Norrington's head. a simple "He's Right" goes after Will continues into the wheel continue scene as normal.

[@CrowMaiden]

I will say, the stunt man for Orlando was on another channel and explained that the choreography is so simple because they had such a small space to walk on (and he was running backwards for real on the wheel), so it was necessary. it's just happy coincidence (for the stunt actors and coordinators) that the focus is on Jack or Elizabeth or whoever isn't fighting.

[@pauladomingo4400]

At 08:15... is the background music “The Tale of Captain Jack Sparrow” by Lonely Island with Michael Bolton??! If so, you’re a legend

[@robchuk4136]

Good point about Norrington and Will, especially that there is no dialogue from Will as he's defending himself. That would have been worth something. I also agree that Jack pulls focus too much (a problem with every sequel since) but as 3-way sword fights go, I can't think of many that are this good.

[@mysteriouscolours1532]

For many reason Dead man's chest is the Pirates of the Caribbean film I remember the most. That isn't saying much though.

[@MrsAnnThropy]

here i am again to say i love you for saying all of the things i have thought the whole time about this second movie, while still enjoying it. only being able to add that tia dalma was definitely my crush thru the movie. you’ve made my whole summer 😹

[@furiousgaming5937]

I wonder how much better this scene could’ve been if during the fight where jack walks away and falls in a grave, we had perspective of James and will, James either continuing his tantrum or will trying to rationalise while in the distance the observant viewers watch jack clumsily fall face first into a hole

[@toric6005]

Yes Norington is the unexpected best haha

[@KosherCookery]

I will never understand why, at 7:20, Norrington doesn’t simply run Will through. He’s showing you his back, man, he’s practically begging for it.

[@ryndanriley5348]

Because hes Norrington and he wouldnt do that - even with nothing to lose to the man who ruined his life

[@barghestblue731]

3:17 "wait Norrington doesn't have a sword pointed at HIM, let me fix that real quick. Now, as you were saying?" lol

[@nalu2680]

:D

[@Inlelendri]

An unexpected gold lining, sort of, for my stereopsis malfunctions, is that I'm far more aware of frenetic editing (it makes me seasick) and or special tricks to evoke a response. Why is it used to hide fights? They so often become boring smears that way. Or jangling keys. Why have characters do fight scenes if you then don't put character in the fight? Thank you for another great video, which I could actually mentally link to EFAP's video on Jackie Chan, which was brilliant!

[@qwertyTRiG]

You know, after reading your first paragraph, I was going to link to Every Frame a Painting's video on Jackie Chan, and then you yourself mentioned it in your second paragraph.

[@Jessamineann]

“Jangling Keys” .... omg! Yes! That’s the exact feeling! I’ve never heard it put that way before and it fits exactly. Thank you!

[@andyb1653]

The first 3 POTC movies are some of my favourite movies. Therefore I totally forgive their flaws. The 4th and 5th movies, not so much.

[@SociaCin]

They really didn't know what to do with Norrington in film 3, did they?

[@JillBearup]

This is legitimately something I would describe myself as SALTY about, if only because of the nautical pun :D

[@SociaCin]

@@JillBearup I'd say it's a pretty fair thing. Considering how they big up his role in film two only to have him in a couple of scenes in 3 before being unceremoniously offed.

[@puphafishprime]

I console myself in the subtext. Sorry for the meaty text and rambling, I promise it gets less basic by the end. I just like the guy :( He spent his life climbing the ranks, living life by a strict moral code (of the time) and views the only way to do this as through the military. His disdain for pirates comes from how seemingly opposite they are to him. They have no morals, taking and doing as they please. What the navy takes and does, it does for order and social good. After losing his crew to the hurricane, he realises how driven by pettiness and spite he is being and so leaves his position. He is then split in two. His desire to pursue good via the navy and exact revenge upon Jack should oppose each other. He discovers that they do not. The heart of Davy Jones: taking it will cause Jack's past actions to catch up with him, and will further solidify the British control of the seas by overcoming a powerful threat. So he does it. He gets exactly what he thinks he wants. Jack is dead and he has his position. Then he realises something about the new chain of command. Beckett has no morals, taking and doing as he pleases out of selfishness and spite. To Norrington, this man has the power to do so much good and instead his overwhelmingly self-centred. Norrington has spent his life climbing the ranks under the premise that he can do more good with more influence. Beckett is everything he hates in a position he admires so much. The man has the power to put the Governor in chains, to command the plague ship, and does nothing that could be considered moral. Even the Lord's disdain for pirates - one of the few traits they share - is out of a personal vendetta against Jack. When Norrington is gifted his old sword, you can see how disillusioned he is with the system by his delivery of "you summoned me." He's starting to think more deeply about his priorities. Then he meets Elisabeth again. The girl who sailed over from England with him at the start of his career is now on the complete opposite side, captain of a pirate ship from a foreign power. Her rejection of him tips him over. She has highlighted the immorality of his end through her father's death and demonstrated good will by staying with her crew. He knows that Beckett is everything he despises, but now gets shown that those he thought were so different from him were not so at all. Pirates have the freedom to do what they want. That doesn't mean they always do and want bad things. The first time he met Jack was after he saved Elisabeth. As Jill pointed out with the blacksmith fight, Jack forfeits advantages at times in favour of doing the right thing. He knows that dying for Beckett does nothing for his principles. Ultimately, Norrington dies a free man. Love sure helped him find his path but his righteousness let him walk down it. Ironically, he performs the same act that got Jack branded a prisoner for: freeing prisoners (sidenote: I am MAD that the "people aren't cargo" scene was removed). What compels me most of all to take this headcanon is his relationship with Will. In the first film, Will manages to save someone by acting outside the law and siding with a pirate. This is the first nudge that the law is not always the way. It is shown that Norrington understands this on some level by how he addresses Will at the end of the film. In the second, he is shown to hate Will. Will has ruined him by freeing Jack which led to the hurricane incident and Norrington's internal divide following it. As Jack points out, he even 'takes' Elisabeth. In the final film, he can see Elisabeth's values as stated earlier. She chose Will of her own accord because he is 'good' and fights for his principles. Perhaps Norrington realised this too, and his final act of self-sacrifice is the one shown instance where he act out of neither spite or legal obligation. And when he does it, Elisabeth cries out for him by name :(

[@bemasaberwyn55]

@@puphafishprime well stated

[@StarlitSeafoam]

@@puphafishprime beautiful. I've always felt James decided not to join the pirates because he had tasted that life during the second movie and knew he couldn't live like that again. He knew that once the pirates were done fighting Beckett, they would pillage and plunder as much as ever. If he had lived, he would have fought Beckett, but not with the pirates. I think he would have taken a third side, perhaps attempted to return to the Royal Navy (Becket's navy belonged to the East India Company). But I think first he would have tried to get to the heart of Davy Jones and stab it, just as Governor Swann tried to do in that deleted scene.

[@171QA]

Great analysis as always.

[@Lexicon.primal]

I just cant believe you threw the Lonely Island's "Jack Sparrow" in the background, well done.

[@Emnms68]

You forgot the best bit: the jar of dirt (not) containing thump thump

[@hipsterbrigadier9428]

one of my fave moments is actually from the comic relief fight and it's the part where they're throwing the sword to each other while fighting davy jones men

[@stanstockton544]

I love your insight and your choice in music.

[@othrilis]

Thank you for articulating why I hate the start of this fight so much!

[@davidaboumerhi1023]

Hey Jill! Discovered your channel recently and it's fantastic! Great analysis, vision and simplicity. Keep up with the quality content! PS: I was sure I heard some KH3 music in the beginning, and I was right, so thumbs up to that!

[@autumn_west]

FINALLY SOMEONE ELSE HEARD TOO! been scrolling through to find out. there's even an original kh2 midi he's a pirate cameo which had me both absolutely hysterical and very happy

[@parkerdixon-word6295]

I definitely feel like this fight didn't know how to handle 3+ people in the same fight scene very well. So many of the shots are Jack or Elizabeth or someone doing things in the foreground while other people swordfight in the background, but when the fighting, theoretically a fight to the death, mind you, os happe ing in the background of a scene, that's basically a signal to the audience that nothing terribly important is going to heppen there, which sinks your stakes faster than Jack's ship at the start of the first movie. It's an interesting lesson, because you'd think that it would be good to keep the fighting in the background, to establish a hollistic space and keep the fighting in our minds, but with this long a fight scene, it really just draws attention to the fact that these people are doing a lot of swordfighting without much of anything happening.

[@danrosendorf4518]

I realize I'm 2 years late, but I just have to say: great job on labeling the axes of your graph.

[@zed42]

i now want to hear your analysis of d'artagnan's duels in disney's "three musketeers" and the older michael york movie!

[@aquamaneatsseafood15]

1:29 So you are gonna talk about Avatar at some point right?

[@JillBearup]

Come back next week 😁

[@adsfornothing3146]

@@JillBearup yeah! i love avatar!

[@annbe1l]

Another great video! I'd love to hear your opinion of the Black Panther fights. They really get to me emotional.

[@ejmcmoo214]

You need to do the review of the fight on the mast in at world's end

[@NecroAngelDeclaresWar]

And by norrington, yes great character and all, but remember: he has a limit. He is only a military unit. He knows no other way. That´s why he ends like he does.

[@Therealbearden]

Jack being the only thing the camera cares about is the defining thing about the whole franchise from Dead Man's Chest forward. I think he's kind of like The Hulk (ok hear me out) in that he's more a chaotic force that should probably work best in an ensemble or as a kind of the paradigm of piraty fun, a foil (sword joke) if you will (POTC joke) to the more straightforward Will.

[@magicenchilladas2109]

I agree, in the first movie Jack worked great because he was the best supporting character

[@werelemur1138]

I love James Norrington. ESPECIALLY scruffy Norrington.

[@nickthedreamer4434]

Part of me does wonder about your thoughts on the final fight in Pirates 3 (you know, the fight where Will and Elizabeth get married by Barbossa while they're all fighting for their lives before everyone fights Davy Jones to both his and Will's death).

[@GeldarionTFS]

Jill: "...it goes on a bit too long and robs us of any sense of urgency." Basically summarizes the whole movie, tbh

[@tysonP519]

I would have loved to see james lose it on will instead of jack falling it would mean so much to watch James fight with anger with lots of cheap stabs and large powerful blows with his sword all while he screams in rage at will for taking everything and will keeping his cool trying to parry the powerful blows and dodge stabs while pleading with james to focus on the key

[@David-dz1cb]

Loving these stagefight analyses! Would enjoy seeing some MCU ones, like Cap v Winter Soldier in Cap 2, or Iron Man v Cap/Buck in Civil War.

[@elsewhereprince3969]

Perfunctory and Frenetic, nice words of the day

[@El_Legante]

Would love to see your thoughts on Ip Man

[@midnightarrow5207]

could do an orlando bloom fight scene series, a lot of characters he plays that get into fights, nerdy fights

[@SithCats]

I just discovered this channel today and don't know if Jill ever talks about archery, but if so I'd love to hear her analysis of some Legolas scenes in Lord of the Rings.

[@Frostfly]

the intro to your videos remind me of Curators corner from the British Museum. This is a good thing (the sutton hoo sword is one of my favorites)

[@Vinemaple]

Thanks so much for saying outright what went wrong with the Pirates of the Caribbean franchise! Looks like the other comments have already said most of what I mean by that. I'll just link it to what you said about Neo in the Matrix movies... both problems come from obsessing over one character, and it happens to be the *wrong* character!

[@robbliss7999]

Was that lonely island I heard looming in the background?

[@JervisGermane]

0:11 4 ) They screwed up the ending so badly that David and Dan must've called them for a consultation.

[@JoshuaBenitezNewOrleans]

I clicked this link because I was like “patchy” good, or “patchy” Bad? Lmao

[@philipwolfe4231]

Great analysts! Any chance you could talk about the fighting in the Princess Bride?

[@nataliealphonse4634]

Will you ever examine a scene from the third film? I know they have a sharp decline in quality after the first but they have a special place in my heart