Jim Cornette on WWE TV Ratings In 1996

From Episode 257 of Jim Cornette's Drive Thru
Artwork by Travis Heckel!
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[@giacomogotta2253]

One thing they didn't mention is how in 1997 they changed the look of Raw, from the cartoonish Monday Night Raw to the more 90's Raw Is War

[@christophercomitini8619]

Exactly. Raw in 1996 vs RAW and WAR ZONE on 97 and 98 are two VASTLY different things.

[@TroystonB]

ya it was a big event when I tuned into raw that night I was shocked by how much bigger it looked.

[@rubenarriaga3029]

March of 97

[@GLPitt1]

Yes. They obviously saw WCW getting the different demo and how they should stop just programming for 8 year olds. So some blame could be placed on Shawn and Sid. But they can only wrestle the matches booked and work the angles they are given.

[@IsaacAutumn]

They also had vince instead of that weasel Michael Cole on commentary till the end of the year

[@coltoncampbell3919]

This man has so much history just stored away literally in his closet. This is some of the coolest stuff I’ve ever heard

[@pleaseshutup7053]

Wrestling genius

[@jharvey433]

Vault.

[@GameTime-yj6qv]

The wrestling encyclopedia

[@FUGP72]

I mean...ratings and PPV buy rates for the Monday Night Wars are available ALL OVER the internet.

[@doomedhuh]

Shawn was better as a heel. His character didn't work as a face. They stuck Jose Lathario with him to try and make him relatable but it was lame. Then once he posed for playgirl it was all over.

[@Cruising_On_Lake_Havasoma]

That Lothario shit was so goddamned bad. Besides Vince everyone hated it, including Shawn.

[@Skibbitypappappa]

Honestly it ruined him, he was white hot in 1995 and then he gets the belt and he's got this old man following him around for a few months, when they let him turn back Heel in 97 we got in my opinion the most electric heel run I've ever seen, shame it lasted 6 months

[@mecha2001]

@@Skibbitypappappa Bret Hart 1997 heel turn was pretty awesome. I still maintain 1997 was a very underrated year for WWF. also within Cornette logic, faces shouldn't have managers. what were they thinking with Lothario?

[@yoholmes273]

Turning the pipsqueak jerkoff fruit pop champions into the "boyhood dream" was an absolute FAIL in everyway. Shawn's entire first run in WWF once he kicked Marty in the Barber Shop was an absolute DISASTER. A total joke.

[@alberts1985]

He got too obnoxious as a face

[@spheremode3271]

I'm not gonna argue Shawn was a successful champion, but Corny seems to ignore Hogan turning heel and the NWO. That's probably a much bigger reason for the rating decrease as Brian said.

[@brandonselitetv1436]

Yeah but i think Jim Cornette is looking at just the fans that only watch WWE programming not other programming like ECW or WCW.

[@mojo-eq4ln]

U had a male stripper as champion on one channel, & heel Hogan on the other. Needless to say, I changed the channel to TNT shortly after Mania 12 👍🏾

[@whatwelearned]

@@mojo-eq4ln someone's got some issues

[@yoholmes273]

Shawn in real time, as champion, was seen a total joke.

[@fredfuckstone914]

"nyeh"

[@osaji922]

Jim looks good wearing Shawn's gear. I know how much he always admired him so I guess this is a sincere form of flattery.

[@bobbystones9612]

Corny the true sexy boy

[@kenrickeason]

😂😂 I can imagine WWF doing a comedy skit with Jim Cornette dressed in Shawn's gear while during his Camp Cornette Stable..

[@Cruising_On_Lake_Havasoma]

Now picture HBK in a loud ass suit with glasses and a tennis racket with fur on it.

[@josheisert8380]

Lol it's a drawing. You need to get your eyes fixed my guy. Or wait if you are on a phone the screen is probably small to where it looks real?

[@shaynewest8757]

You do know it's not a photo don't you ?

[@pjam1184]

Shawn was a lot more entertaining as a heel. As a babyface it just didn't work. He's so much better as an asshole.

[@randyk_18]

These two could never have an objective take about anything related to Shawn Michaels. They take any chance possible to talk shit about him and it's honestly just pathetic.

[@dennisdavis5842]

Agreed . I’m tired of the hogan sympathy when any other time they would be talking shit about how bad he was doing business and lying . Which he did to Shawn and again a year later . Just couldn’t do 3 and lose 1 could he

[@jjayflash]

Shawn shouldn't take most of the blame. Business was bad in general in 1996 WWE especially with the NWO in WCW. WWE was still a cartoon product even with Shawn having great matches. Even if Bret was around for most of 1996 the ratings still wouldn't be all that good.

[@michaelkeller5927]

I'm the biggest Bret mark around, but you're 100% right

[@ModernDayRenaissanceMan]

HBK says in his 2000 shoot interview after his retirement that there was a specific match between him and Kevin Nash where Kevin Nash kicked out and there was a big issue with that. They warned Vince McMahon that the kick out was going to be a problem with the fans. After that Vince turned HBK into a baby face because of that kick out. The fans then started to go after HBK because they weren't ready for it but the final decision went to Vince. HBK goes into detail about that and the interview is very rarely on KZbin but it is right now so if you want to hear him talk about it you can find it.

[@TRoller927]

14:25 Shawn wanted to do 3 matches with Hogan. Hogan wanted to do one match of him squashing Shawn. Hogan got his way and Shawn made him look absolutely terrible for it. I rarely side with Shawn but gave Hogan exactly what he deserved at that moment.

[@BrianJamesShanley]

If I had to see the man who body-slammed Andre get cleanly pinned by Shawn Michaels’ bitch ass crescent kick (that Marty Jannetty did better), I would’ve revolted big time. Hogan squashing Shawn is exactly what needed to happen.

[@christophercomitini8619]

So basically Jim is blaming his and Bruce's shitty booking of Shawn's run s WWF Champion (Boyhood dream with Jose Lothario) on Shawn not drawing EVEN THOUGH Russo's booking of Shawn (DX) and Shawn doing his OWN character interviews (shooting on Bret) drew MASSIVE ratings!!

[@johnnyskinwalker4095]

pretty much. But he'll never admit to it.

[@MrSniperfox29]

Apart from the fact Cornette was never the booker.....

[@BOBBYSOX86]

True but Vince still has to take the blame as well for approving Prichard's and Cornette's shit booking

[@MrSniperfox29]

@@BOBBYSOX86 Apart from the fact Cornette never booked anything....

[@BOBBYSOX86]

@@MrSniperfox29 yea he did, he was there with Bruce and Vince McMahon at that time

[@GregHuffman1987]

sympathize with hogan? that summerslam at 2005 i was siding with hbk because hogan was being his usual selfish ass self wanting to always go over. he did the same thing a year later to orton

[@yawncena3795]

1. Shawn Michaels’ character wasn’t over with the male audience. He came out to the ring dressed in chaps, a biker hat, dangly earrings and danced like a stripper. He even posed for Playgirl. I think Vince wanted him to be the Brad Pitt of WWF, the man who all the guys wanted to be and the man all the chicks wanted. That wasn’t cool to a lot of the fans. That’s why they wanted Sid to be champion at Survivor Series. 2. He didn’t have that much support compared to other top guys before him and after him. For all of 1996, he wrestled Davey Boy, Sid and Vader. Now compare that to Austin who wrestled Bret, Taker, Foley, HHH, Shawn and The Rock. 3. The product was the drizzling sh*ts. Vince McMahon was so behind times in 1996, while WCW wasn’t. They had the NWO. WWF still had gimmicks like The Bodydonnas, Godwins, The real double J and just corny cartoon crap that no one wanted to see.

[@davidgaskins2589]

U writing this much about other men is worse then Shawn's chaps

[@GameTime-yj6qv]

Right on all points. Also many of the 80s fans that were used to Hogan, Savage, Warrior etc stopped watching and/or turned over to WCW.

[@stillrealtome1772]

I agree with Cornette with most things but come on he could have given WCW and the birth of the n.W.o more credit to why Raw's numbers dropped in 1996.

[@jonathonholifield3166]

Exactly.

[@acotbc]

Raw just didn't have anything to compete with when it came to countering the nWo angle which was shooting into the stratosphere. The week after Giant joined the nWo, (fake) Sting attacked Lex Luger. What was on Raw that week? Matches involving T.L. Hopper and Freddie Joe Floyd, with an Undertaker vs Salvatore Sincere main event. Hopper, Floyd and Sincere were jobber-to-the-stars characters which debuted on the rapidly declining Superstars, and should have remained there. Any one of them had no business on WWF's flagship show, let alone all three, taking up three out of the four matches on that particular show. But back then the WWF taped four weeks of Raw in a single night, I guess for budgetary reasons, and the option wasn't there to change things up from week-to-week after the taping was done for the month.

[@JMDogg]

WWF could've had Austin saying the 7 deadly words, flipping birds, the whole 9, and Raw STILL wouldve got washed by at least a full ratings point because the nWo in 96 was so groundbreaking and intriguing.

[@kenrickeason]

I never understood why people wanna act like WCW was this awful Wrestling Promotion.. WCW was great in the 1990s even before NWO.. WWE has messed up these kids minds on the history of things..

[@kenrickeason]

@@JMDogg Nobody wanna give credit due but that angle was put together perfectly.. Whoever did that deserves a big pay raise and awards behind that??? That was one of the greatest Pro wrestling moments ever..

[@chrisjames5188]

The whole wwf product sucked in 96 not just Shawn's face run as champion. Especially when you compare what was happening in wcw at the time.

[@jumbothompson]

Austin and Bret were good. Shawn's run always sucked.

[@patale1640]

Go watch matches on Raw from 95/96 and the crowds where usually dead. Go watch Nitro during the same time period and crowds are going nuts for Sting, Savage, Flair,and Luger. Even pre nWo Nitro had more energy.

[@troystaunton254]

I agree. People act like Vince McMahon is a genius for the attitude era, but that was the exception to his career. His creative was childish cartoonish and pathetic at best. Michaels may not have been drawing the biggest gates but let’s be real. Nash hall taker, michaels and hart was drawing all of it. Vince’s cartoon garbage was driving everyone else.

[@johnnyskinwalker4095]

@Bischoff Rulz He'll never give credit to WCW or Russo cause they literally made him irrelevant. The success of WCW made him lose power and in turn gave Russo power and he helped turn the WWF around

[@hood6597]

@@jumbothompson the ratings were less when Bret was champion in 1995. The worst year the WWE had

[@MichaelSmith-fq6hz]

In defense of Shawn, WCW did start the NWO in the middle of his first reign.

[@patale1640]

Wcw was winning on Monday nights before the nWo.

[@wrestlingtapes2036]

Shawn is overrated

[@chico1680]

@@patale1640 They were trading wins back and forth, actually. It wasn't until the nWo that WCW began their 83 week unbeaten streak

[@Cruising_On_Lake_Havasoma]

Also in defense of Shawn, and something everyone seems to forget, the WWF also lost 2 of their bigger stars to that angle, and no one really replaced them for a while. The real serious Austin push was still a few months away.

[@patale1640]

@@chico1680 that’s true, but the narrative seems to be that Nitro was dead before the nWo which is simply not the case. Pro wrestling as a whole was at a low point coming out of the early 90s, but Nitro revitalized interest in WCW with Luger, Steiners, and even the Road Warriors returning in 95/96.

[@MrRyanlennie2005]

The Raw rating is now usually a 0.5-0.6. The actual viewership usually a bit under 2 million. What’s crazy is at its peak TNA Impact did that viewership and with a better rating.

[@SAM-ru4vx]

The peak was Samoa Joe vs Kurt angle? Bro claimed 1.4ish as him benchmark. Bro. Than hulkamania ran wild bro. Aces & 8s , bully ray, than Dixie decided she needed to be on tv. Rockstar spudd being great, than guess what channel iMPACT is on, than broken Hardy's, than sold and moved to Canada.

[@MrRyanlennie2005]

@@SAM-ru4vx the highest viewership was 2.2 million. Highest rating was 1.5 yeah. The peak times were Hogan’s debut, the show after 10/10/10 and Hardy’s heel turn as well as some of the early Main Event Mafia run.

[@SAM-ru4vx]

@@MrRyanlennie2005 if it wasn't for Hardy's at the farm / compound there was nothing exciting that got any positive reaction from the fans at the time. Blah blah blah once AJ styles left it was over 🤷🏻.

[@nikeneon3188]

They still got entire top 3 spot in the TV ratings, 0.5 is fantastic by modern standart, nobody watch tv

[@MrRyanlennie2005]

@@nikeneon3188 Yeah I’m just pointing out how stupid everyone is arguing over ratings, “Oh AEW can’t get over a million” “Triple H has got the product hot again”…..no one is watching any of it. 😂 Yeah it still gets the biggest tv ratings but when no one watches tv it’s kind of like winning tallest dwarf.

[@Erlewyn]

Look out, your bias is showing.

[@SpaceGhost92]

I knew immediately when Jim said “oh the ratings were so great and business was booming in Q1 1996” that this was gonna be another Shawn Michaels hit piece. Let’s not act like the concussion storyline on raw with Owen didn’t get over, and let’s not pretend like fans were tuning had nothing to do with Shawn and it was all Bret. Then look at the list of names Shawn had to work with as champion. He got the one ppv before Diesel left and it was an awesome match, but then he’s gone. Davie Boy was a good worker but he’s not a believable main event guy. I’ll admit the Vader match should’ve been better but let’s not pretend like Shawn was going head to head with Japan or even wcw level Vader. The mankind match was my favorite of all of 96 but that was just a one off to break up the mankind Taker feud. By the time Survivor Series rolled around fans were suffering from ultra white meat baby face fatigue and embraced Sid, and having the match in front of the smart garden crowd didn’t help. Of course when Bret came back he had the benefit of working with the red hot Steve Austin. Shawn didn’t get a program with Austin. He didn’t get a single match of feud with Taker. Lastly, let’s not forgot Shawn was a huge part of Raws resurgence in 97.

[@herzkine]

Yeah bret just had all the luck mostly to be suddenly Black when White was put...:-) WHOT ? Talking bout Bias...

[@tomnagy3010]

Vader was still a monster and could work like he did in WCW, Vince screwed him up and then Shawn was being a bitch during Summerslam. Austin wasn't red hot until he started the program with Bret. Yeah, he became higher profile, but the best thing he did until then was attack Pillman's house. After he worked with Bret for months he became the biggest baby face, even over Taker.

[@kingkold]

Yeah Jim was there pal, lol

[@Erlewyn]

@@tomnagy3010 Not really… I'll give him a pass for forgetting a spot in a major PPV match, it can happen to everybody, but at this point in time, he was overweight and easily winded, not someone you can get a great match out of.

[@xziggy_stardustx6786]

You've just got to accept it: HBK is incredible in the ring, but he was never a draw; he was entertaining in his own way, but he never had the same star quality as Bret. The numbers don't lie -- part of it is that Bret was a natural babyface and HBK was a natural heel. Faces are a big part of drawing. You need a great heel vs a great face to draw (E.G. HHH vs Rock). HBK was a shoehorned face who had, at best, decent opponents who were more sympathetic than him (hence the Sid fiasco) and that destroyed the dynamic and killed interest.

[@FreeThinkAlways]

We need jim to do a watch along to the hogan vs hbk match

[@zachcoleman8342]

We have to make this happen lol

[@BXMarathoner26]

Corny is not the biggest fan of HBK. I think it was a combo of: Fans not being keen on babyface HBK, the Rise of NWO, Bret's absence (because there would've been a return match within 96 at some point) and that last end of cartoonish material in WWF. All that has to be taken into account.

[@codeezie]

The numbers don't reflect it but I find 96 / 97 HBK to be must see TV. Probably the best in the ring I've ever seen. I was like 6 years old and he was my first favorite wrestler. I turned on him for Stone Cold cause of his heel antics. He really didn't have much support on the rest of the card when he was at the top. The product kinda sucked. I don't know. I fucking love HBK, and I don't know what role nostalgia and/or WWE revisionist history has played in that. But if you go watch his matches - they all hold up.

[@michaelrood2751]

Agree … he was great.

[@GameTime-yj6qv]

Bret and Shawn get bad reps for the down period of 94 to 96, but in the ring they were amazing.

[@john_blues]

Jim lost his smile in the thumbnail.

[@gojira931]

The ratings did go up pretty steadily from November 1997 to March 1998 when Shawn was champion again as a heel and was doing DX, which validates what Jim and Brian are saying here.

[@herzkine]

Personally it was the end for me DX is the first thing i gladly didmt follow anymore as aktive Fan boy. Totally not present in my mind, everytime i hear it i think thnk god i missed it.

[@JMDogg]

That was less Shawn/DX and more Austin, Tyson (and the mainstream press it got when he showed up), and WCW making people switch to WWF with their foolishness.

[@simeonflake]

I'm not surprised to hear that the WWF's ratings started to spike in late '97, especially given how Starrcade turned into one of the biggest duds in the history of the sport. It also wasn't a surprise that the WWF took over in the ratings in 1998 right around the time they had Sting drop the belt to Savage, just so Randy could lose to Hogan the very next night. I think I'm still pissed about that... 😡

[@jamaalmoses8821]

Austin,Rock,Kane challenging Taker...

[@cutekanjii]

Jimmy doesn't want to aknowlege that DX added to the overall increase in ratings were as they were entertaining and cool. I think it was a combination of the all the stuff going on in the WWF all at the same time like the rise of Austin, DX & the introduction of Kane and the stuff he was doing with Undertaker & Paul Bearer. But it was also that people were well used to the NWO & all that going on in WCW, it wasn't new & shiney anymore. Yeah it was still hot but it was over a year old, so people were starting to switch over to RAW to see the new stuff the WWF were doing & DX were a WWF version of the NWO. Plus DX and Nash & Hall were obviously friends in real life so it was like 2 sides of the one big faction.

[@shaynewest8757]

Putting Shawn with Jose Lothario was career suicide. Who the hell thought that was a good idea.

[@whatwelearned]

Career suicide? You know dude went on to wrestle until about 2016, right?

[@willnicklen4196]

Should of talked about 1995 ratings

[@sonicplys64]

Why? Same thing wrestling is doing today.

[@ronnycrypto8986]

Cornette COMPLETELY downplays the biggest heel turn in history from the biggest star in wrestling history at the time (coupled with 2 huge WWF stars also switching to WCW at the time). The nWo was the hottest thing in wrestling. The WWF was already doing 'meh' with Diesel then Bret. To put the blame on Shawn Michaels, when the start of his run coincided with the birth of the nWo is pure bias against him, and Cornette's narrative would be completely different if Bret and Taker were the champ during that period. When HBK's reign started, all of a sudden Bret, Hall, Nash were gone (with 2 of them going to WCW). Hogan turned heel. The NWO was formed. Can't put the blame on Shawn when the only other megastar still there at the time was Undertaker. Austin, Mankind, Sid, Vader were either still on the way up (Austin, Mankind) or had plateau'd as tier 2 stars (Sid, Vader).

[@THEEtylerhan91]

And it’s funny idk if you caught It but Jim is also biased to Bret here cause some of the numbers jim throws out here when he gushes over Bret being the savior when Shawn was on top Shawn drew about as consistent as you could in 96 with the talent he had to work with and even Bret drew less when he comes back he drew less than hbk even in the Canada in your house event Shawn drew more at the rumble in 97 and that’s with Jim’s numbers to back it and says Bret was a bigger draw than Shawn idk about that so I feel like Jim always has a hard on for Bret and downplays Shawn even shockingly (brian loves Bret) Brian came to Shawn’s defense and pointed out the fact that nWo was hot as hell

[@ModernDayRenaissanceMan]

HBK said in his 2000 retirement shoot interview that turning him face was punishment because of the kickout from Nash. They told Vince if wouldn't work. This is why he wasn't punished for it. (Non-kayfabe) Watch that interview.

[@simeonflake]

I always heard that WM13 was one of the lowest rated shows of all-time & I'm not surprised, considering the whole ppv--outside of Bret and Austin--was the drizzling shits....

[@Cruising_On_Lake_Havasoma]

Continuing a streak of pretty crappy Wrestlemanias.

[@TheFreeSkate]

Agreed. Bret austin made u watch that WM ... no one else did lol

[@elizabeth3280]

Lets be honest, Brett vs Austin was only cool after the fact as it sounded like a match you would see on RAW. Everyone knew Austin would not win as his one and only submission would put him to sleep. WM13 I was only a couple WrestleManias in plus the one's I rented from the video store. It was the least exciting one for me because Shawn was my favorite along with Owen, Razor and Diesel.

[@KHayes666]

@@elizabeth3280 What? 12 year old me was fired up for Bret vs Austin because it honestly felt like they wanted to kill each other. There was no "after the fact"

[@elizabeth3280]

@@KHayes666 If you liked Owen more and Shawn was your favorite then you rolled your eyes at a brett hart match unless he was fighting one of your guys. I jsut was not into it but was also really young and neither of those two did it for me so the only thing that looked cool was the clip of him bleading in the sharp shooter they made a big deal about. I even had the WWE network at one time and still dont think I have seen that wrestlemania haha

[@damian_cross]

I got into wrestling because I loved Shawn's post-barber shop heel run so much (which btw made you gay in the eyes of most fans, that wasn't fun). The joy of Shawn as a heel isn't the flamboyance, its the frustration...the idea that he's so good at what he does but he never gets the credit, so he has to give it to himself and be that cocky arrogant guy. Shawn should never have been a face, ever. It never works.

[@un-realism7813]

Interesting that the ratings began to decrease after King of the Ring 96. I guess Austin's speech didn't immediately set the world on fire like WWE would have you believe.

[@stfi7566]

Two months later, Austin was in the SummerSlam Free-For-All pre-show match with Yokozuna. That’s the match where Yoko rips the top rope off after grabbing the top turnbuckle. Austin didn’t really catch on in the company until he fueded with Brian Pillman and began trashing Bret Hart in promos.

[@ladytye826]

I was at that Summerslam. Besides that incident, I vividly remember Paul Bearer turn on the Undertaker……gave me chills

[@KHayes666]

Revisionist history is great isn't it? Austin had a rematch with Mero at July 96 IYH and was SO over in August that he was on the free pre-show with Yokozuna, he was SO HOT in September that he wasn't even on the card for September 96 Mind Games. It wasn't until he called out Bret Hart to set up Bret's return at Survivor Series. Once he had that banger with Bret, THEN he started getting attention.

[@matthillegas3099]

They went to monthly PPVs starting in May '95. A full year before WCW did, despite Bischoff's revisionist memory.

[@jabrockobiden9434]

Wrong

[@alberts1985]

@@jabrockobiden9434 the McLaughlin report

[@xxshrimptacoxx5720]

Those ratings were all ur fault Jim.

[@JohnMcVay1]

The ratings would’ve been worse without Shawn Michaels. 💯 He was definitely a star. But, it takes time to turn things around. And, you have to give a large amount of credit to WCW for catching fire.

[@wilcee238]

Since HHH took over I’ve managed to sit through a RAW main event, and 75% of an entire episode of Smackdown. I haven’t watched anything WWE since Samoa Joe lost to Finn Balor. Tony Khan better go to MJF’s house and personally give him a blank check, because they’re in big trouble.

[@rockydoesntsuck8735]

Lol Raw still sucks

[@shaolin1derpalm]

Placebo effect

[@barbz2741]

Ah so it was all shawns fault. Not your out of date corny viewing.

[@TroystonB]

June-July 96 was the peak interest period for wcw getting the nwo formed.

[@Skibbitypappappa]

It's funny how Jim suddenly stops writing the numbers down when Shawn is a Heel again and is extremely watchable and not having Jose Lothario trailing him

[@cutekanjii]

Shawn disrespected Jose Lothario publicly by making it clear he didn't want to share the limelight with him by walking with a big gap between them & always keeping him at a distance from him. He was resentful that they were pushing it that it was Jose that got him into the business & trained him as i think it made it seem like it wasn't just Shawn Michaels that was responsible for getting Shawn Michaels to where he was but rather it was Jose Lotherio AND Shawn Michaels! He didn't have much choice with that storyline as they just needed something to work into his angle with Sid & there wasn't really anything else to do. So he went along with it but at the same time dissed Lotherio & tried to humilate him almost. As he was a babyface at the time & supposed to be getting it over that this was his "beloved mentor" so there was no reason at all for him to keep him at a big distance away. He did the storyline half assed.

[@DR.64A9]

This is also when Jim left the creative team.

[@mrwednesdaynight]

I disliked Jose so much that when Sid powerbombed his kid, that really got Sid over with me.

[@DLRX]

@@mrwednesdaynight I still love the spot at Survivor Series 96 when Sid hits Jose with the camera. I was never a fan of the Jose thing either, Bruce Pritchard's idea of a Rocky/Mickey pairing didn't work because Jose Lothario didn't fit with Shawn Michael's image AT ALL.

[@Thecallmemisterajp]

Admittedly I’m a little biased since Shawn was my fav, but I always thought the notion of the fan backlash was a little overstated. Yeah, fans cheered Sid (who everyone forgets was actually a face at the time) in MSG, but people overlook that here in Philly for Mind Games, with ECW chants breaking out all show and frankly we still loved Foley fresh off of his run with the promotion, Shawn still got cheered. I can see the criticisms, with the boyhood dream stuff taking off a lot of his edge, but it wasn’t exactly 2015 Roman we were dealing with here.

[@rubenarriaga3029]

👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

[@magsxx9735]

Exactly, Survivor Series 1996 was the only time I can remember him getting booed as a babyface. Compared to the reactions John Cena and Roman Reigns were getting, it’s nothing. He was cheered every time he came out besides that. He never had go away heat.

[@genecide6869]

Agree 2015 Roman was worse

[@kenrickeason]

I noticed too! When Sid came back to WWF in the early 1990s they cheered him and booed Hogan.. When Sid came back during the mid 1990s They cheered him and booed Michaels.. Hmmmmm 🤣

[@willsmith625]

Further proof of how overrated HBK is. He was never able to be the man, was an ass behind the scenes and has gotten better with revisionist history. While truly a great athlete-he was never a great wrestler nor the guy you could really put the belt on and draw with.

[@randommay9219]

Is it that he didn't draw or was he the only draw

[@danthemancushecan]

Brian is being a bit much here. HBK never had "Go Away Heat". He was definitely over with the female audience ans younger fans (just listen to those crowds in 1996). He was definitely better as a heel though.

[@spms52]

Brian is a HBK hater lmao!

[@danthemancushecan]

@@spms52 he always has been. I've even listened to him take unnecessary shots at HBK.

[@spms52]

@@danthemancushecan Yep lmao and it's always about him not being a "draw" in 1996 as if the WWF wasn't flopping as a whole lmao. Shawn's 1996 run kept the ratings afloat as well as the buy rate.

[@danthemancushecan]

@@spms52 and sure WCW was winning in ratings, but Shawn was putting on far better matches than their World Champ.

[@simeonflake]

I always like to look at the other side of the spectrum--how would the course of history had changed if someone in Atlanta had some fresh ideas beyond milking the nWo dry or completely f--king up Bret Hart, who had overtaken Sting as the hottest star in the business at the end of 1997. Oh well, I guess in 1996 things were still rosy for the WCW...

[@simeonflake]

Well, to be fair, both promotions had their fair share of shit TV during the wars & long after the war was over, WWE was still cranking out bad television--the long list of examples I won't even bother trying to list....

[@theseeker7711]

Still would have been hard.Austin was going Nova

[@theseeker7711]

The real question is what if someone said”We are paying Brad Armstrong and Lanny Poffo to do absolutely nothing.We can pay a injured Steve Austin”Austin never leaves

[@SpaceGhost92]

@@simeonflake 1997-2010 wwe was not bad. At the very least you could depend on the main event guys delivering

[@christerry1611]

Vince gushing over Shawn and constantly shoving him down our throats every week on Raw was cringe. I look back at that time period now and think to myself no wonder WCW and the NWO started turning the tables on the WWF. It wasn't until summer of the following year (97) when things improved.

[@Richie3Jack]

This makes sense. I was a fan of Shawn Michaels although I preferred Bret Hart. But as a babyface on top, I remember Shawn really turning off a lot of fans to the point where he was getting 'go home heat' and people were tuning into Nitro instead.

[@TheUnleetGamer]

Easy to blame the champ. The nwo was on the rise in the summer of 96 that affected wwf ratings massively.

[@stephenrogers4537]

I know how to bring the ratings back here's a hint:🤫 "HELLO LADYS" 🤔😒🤣😘

[@PapaTaurean]

Behold the newest tag team... the Twitter Machine... the Google Machine... the Internet!!

[@classicretros23]

Sid was very underrated dude had pops 9ver Shawn Michaels & in his early 90s over Hogan (Royal Rumble 92). The problem was that he loved softball too much 😆

[@mexmexican8619]

Wrestling people always ignore outside factors when discussing who did business i.e. everyone ignores the fact that Warrior carried the belt in the middle of a recession and Hogan did even worse than Warrior after regaining the belt.

[@tylerbushong3452]

All due respect, it’s kinda hard to do worse with the belt than Warrior.

[@LeoWhalen1933]

What I loved about WWF from 1993-97 was that it wasn't mainstream yet and it felt more intimate. It was fun when I actually found another wrestling fan and could talk about stuff with them. The Attitude era was great but everybody was watching it so it took away the uniqueness of being a fan...

[@Nostalgia9478]

I actually prefer 93-97 over Attitude

[@reigniteinchrist]

I could not agree more

[@eazymb.]

I was born in 99 and I go back yearly and watch most of 1997 WWF. To me that was the perfect balance.

[@Nostalgia9478]

@Rich Monkey sweet

[@DeadSezSo]

That's basically saying you liked it when it wasn't cool because watching it made you feel cool lol but the thing is, everybody knew wwf by 1993. There just weren't nearly as many people tuning in every single week. But so many people were still watching it here and there enough to know a little something about it

[@cutekanjii]

Yeah but Diesel and Razor had not long left also in mid 96 which didn't help. The thing is shawn wasnt very popular amoung guys especialy as a babyface. As a face it was mainly girls that liked him but the wrestling fans in large are male & michaels just wasn't appealing as a draw for them. It would be uncool for them to go into school and talk about HBK or be wanting go watch him although his matches & in ring ability was great but it was the gimmick with the ojtfits, the earrimgs, the dancing and the theme music was really aimed at girls. Except maybe as a heel in DX later on he was more cool for guys to like.

[@ancient1350]

💯 spot on

[@biggiefitz6275]

The Rock Auto bit at the end made me spit out Dr Pepper. LMAO. Rock Auto had better be taking good care of Jim. If l needed advertising, Cornette would be the man I'd go to👍👍

[@FreneticZetetic]

What an era this all was; being 8-9 at the time and flipping between RAW and Nitro on Monday nights. TAKE ME BACK.

[@buckmartinez]

Oh wow, this is almost a deep dive. Remember those, folks?

[@lulu-hm2xp]

Didn't like HBK playboy "underdog" gimmick Vince tried to shove. It's why I was uninterested at that time

[@JasonSum1979]

this all make absolute sense my first WWF live house show was ‘96 Shawn vs Sid was the main event on the card the WWF booked St. louis Hooky arena for the house show (I swear to God this was one of the first times i was ashamed to be a Pro Wrestling fan the Kiel arena seemed empty maybe 30-35% full it’s a huge building (i didn’t think to bring a camera along until after the fact) went to another house show in that same arena less then two years later jam packed (One match was the New Age outlaws vs Cactus Jack & Chainsaw Charlie

[@Punkinlunk]

WWE ran away most fans so it’s pointless to talk ratings now.

[@Chaz4543]

Yeah I hate to admit it but its Vince's fault. He totally lost the plot.

[@darlinbood3991]

Jimmy always has an excuse for why no one watched his booking.

[@GracefulEloquence]

His booking sucked

[@erics8018]

Yeah it sucked so bad the company only learned to be more successful then they have ever been before just a couple years later.. sure it wasn't their high moment, but it lead to better business later. Wrestling always has highs and lows, yeah Jim was throwing around ideas but this was still very much Vince McMahons love child.

[@jabrockobiden9434]

Ill wait to see your booking do better

[@ABAYBAZ]

Jim Cornette was the man in the arena

[@bobbystones9612]

Shawn was all Hat no Cattle back then

[@Ghost-Face420]

It wasn’t HBK’s fault at all imo, he’s the greatest overall talent anyone has ever produced.

[@gilbertangelo3692]

Back in the days wrestling had good talent good matches there's no way you can compare wrestling back then to now I stopped watching wrestling back in 2002 I'm in my early 30s and I just can't stand watching it no more I'm sorry it's no good

[@danthemancushecan]

How come no one ever points out how the Steroid Scandal was such a blow to wrestling, especially WWF? The mid 90's WWF was still in a transition from the huge muscled guys to the smaller more athletic guys like HBK and Hart. Let's be real, HBK had phenomenal matches, so it wasn't his ringwork that was the problem.

[@quintonbell6836]

Excellent comment

[@Am0ment0fB]

Every era of wrestling starts off with a bang. Hulkamania and WrestleMania. Hogan vs Andre. Montreal screw job. Nwo formation/Hogan heel turn. Stone Cold Jake the snake 3:16 promo. First stunner to Vince at msg. Mike Tyson betrays DX/ Austin wins the belt. Austin vs rock Since Austin blew up So, basically it's been over 25 years, since wrestling had a mega event or Mega star to turn the next era awesome.

[@troystaunton254]

I’ve always felt Nash, hart and michaels get a bad deal. Everyone talks about how their time on top was a low point and it was. But people act like they weren’t draws. The reality is Vince McMahon books and booked garbage for pretty much 40 of his 45 year career and it was particularly bad in the mid 90s when he decided everyone had to have another job hockey player, garbage man. Dumb things like that and then to make it all worse their other job was their whole personality. Vince booked rubbish. So In a 1hr show 50minutes was insufferable and then you had bret, shawn, Nash, taker and mankind literally drawing all the money. So they weren’t making ridiculous money but it was these maligned guys who drew all of it.

[@jayw.1042]

Who gives a fuck? If you’re a horrible person you’re a horrible person

[@freedomisslavery6840]

The reality is when Jim was writing Raw the rating and business were in the toilet, and when his hated nemesis Russo took over they went through the roof. Hard facts.

[@crownvictoria9242]

When Shawn Michaels was on top of WWE in 1996, the only main eventers there were Sid, Vader, Taker and Foley. WCW had Sting, Hogan, Savage, Scott Hall, Diesel, Ric Flair, Lex Luger and more. WWE didn’t have any star power at that time and Bret leaving for the entire year didn’t help things either.

[@ModernDayRenaissanceMan]

Roman Reigns has been shoved down our throats for a decade now. It took Sami Zayn to get him over

[@ginofitzpatric2295]

I don't think we can discount the role that the Summer Olympics played in the ratings falling in the Summer of 96. It being held in Atlanta, many of the most popular events being held in the evening (such as track and field), and many of the top athletes being American could put a damper on ratings. Also, baseball was recovering from the 1994-1995 strike, and the following seasons, the Atlanta Braves coincidentally won the World Series in. So combine all of that along with the NWO starting during that same summer, and you had a confluence of events that could direct eyes away from New York and the WWF, and towards Atlanta and WCW.

[@Good100]

Not to mention the first year of Jordan's second three-peat.

[@Clubber-Slang]

The Olympics is 2 weeks

[@johnpulford5996]

People put to much stock in qho was champion.. I remember being young hbk was my favorite but I would think wow tje crowd goes nuts for him but everything else on the show sucks... its not the champions fault he's getting tje crowd in a frenzy but for 3 hours before him it's body Donna's vs race car drivers and gold dust vs Marc Mero it just wasn't much of anything else to enjoy... thats why events like survivor series stand out these days for once there's 3 matches featuring top talent

[@kingrobthegreat7446]

I always thought hbk should have stayed heel until the 2000s

[@RLStern]

Excuses. WWF was horrible under Cornette from 95-96. Why do people make excuses for it? Then revise history on Russo's runs in the WWF, WCW, and TNA, all of which he was successful at?

[@PREEM513]

It was fun to see Shawn chase the gold but once he got it, he wasn’t a good champion. Bret was a better champion. WWF was doing bad in 95 and 96 is when things started to pick up.

[@spms52]

He was a great champion. His first run as champion had great matches and storylines. However, his third-reign in 1997 was his best as champion.

[@notafaker]

The reason Raw was unappossed in April likely was NBA Playoffs

[@whatwelearned]

opposed*

[@notafaker]

@@whatwelearned correction unopposed but Nitro wasn’t on because of NBA playoffs

[@Savage-sr6lh]

Good point from Brian nwo Had big part to play there

[@blakemaxfield4267]

Cornette is a Bret Hart guy

[@aaryanairy756]

I wonder what Jim has to say about McAfee referencing him on SmackDown.

[@patale1640]

What did he say?

[@erikstorm8935]

What did he the man say?

[@Good100]

@@patale1640 He just mentioned that Jim Cornette was an announcer on the first SmackDown.

[@aaryanairy756]

He said that He was 11 yrs old when he saw Cole and Jim Cornette announcing SmackDown, and now he has the privilege.

[@stevestewart6287]

It's not a fair comparison, because back then there were not 300 channels on tv. No streaming, no firestick, no youtube, etc. Today there are so many more channel choices it is hard to get a million people to watch anything, except the Super Bowl, and things like that. One other thing, they would deny wrestling was fake back then, so a lot of people watched it thinking it was real. I am 62 years old, and I watched it all. I think they best imes were Stone Cold, The Rock, etc. But I also remember the Crusher, and Dick The Bruiser, loved them both. Things changed when we got 300 channels, etc.

[@ukgraffitiwalker8846]

Don't forget gaming which is bigger than the movie industry.

[@SuperbNProsper]

Exactly. The fact that people don’t factor this point in is crazy

[@ukgraffitiwalker8846]

@@SuperbNProsper so many people are in denial about these factors.

[@christhornycroft3686]

Without Bret in the mid 90s wrestling a decent opponent, WWF was in trouble. Everyone likes Shawn these days, but the guy couldn’t pop much of a rating or a PPV buyrate. I love Corny, but unless your product is culturally relevant, you’re going nowhere. Yes, wrestling psychology and booking matter. But if the people involved aren’t living in the current day and feel like relics of the previous decade, nobody wants to see them and you go out of business.

[@GrayRedRoom]

Bret was a terrible draw.

[@misterknightowlandco]

The formula is simple but no one does it. Just have stories that make sense, good rivalries, and good booking like back in the day, but keep all the modern high spots. Just space them out so they have more impact and have a good story. It ain’t rocket science.

[@__RYN__]

I was young back then. But HBK was a character the show stoppa, the entrance, the dance. Didnt really tell how good he was until that ladder match with Razor Roman. I hate to say it but drove in this vanilla midget 15 minute competitive indie stuff we have today in 2022

[@christopherclinton8631]

Wcw saturday night was better than raw during 1995 then wwf raw during 96

[@DynastyIcon]

Jim & Brian are CM Punk marks so can't wait to see how they defend Punk being a problem in AEW these days like he was in WWE..

[@dexenationgracey1979]

Which is odd considering Punk is on record calling himself a bigger headache than 90s HBK.

[@JM1993951]

People say “oh, people just stream it later” like that negates the poor ratings today. That’s not a defense even if it’s true. The point is that it’s no longer something you have to watch live because it keeps you hooked. It’s “eh, I’ll record it and maybe I’ll catch it later.”

[@ukgraffitiwalker8846]

Gaming killed wrestling.

[@Chaz4543]

Vince killed it because he got old and out of touch.

[@herzkine]

Nope, when Wrestling was good i could also play CIV II all day. Today you could even do both at the same time a lot easier.

[@ukgraffitiwalker8846]

@@herzkine today's kids laugh at wrestling and think it's silly, They'd rather play fortnite.

[@SuperbNProsper]

Gaming & More channels/shows killed wrestling.

[@rrichmond14]

I think Jim and others downplay the lack of star power during Shawn's run. All the corny gimmicks were still in place and never could compete w Nwo at the time. Even the attitude era had more than stone cold and the rock

[@josephpatti2835]

Also the ratings only went down in summer in May after he won title they were still good . Then next summer when it was with Bret he blamed summer for ratings going down. He just does not like Shawn but it is okay since he has the knowledge and allowed his own opinion.

[@ancient1350]

💯 to the gimmick aspect. Lot of people looking at this time with rose colored glasses and forgetting the tendrils of the gimmick era were still attached at this point.

[@GlassJoe1337]

It's harder now to get good ratings because there's so many more channels to choose from let alone streaming services pulling people away from regular TV. I'm more curious about PPV buys (and gates) compared to today's peacock views and buy's.

[@Xxrocknrollgod]

Ratings sucked in 96

[@TheMarc388]

That’s the point of the video

[@iamdb1990]

still better than today lol

[@aaryanairy756]

Unless you're called WCW.

[@Cruising_On_Lake_Havasoma]

So did the WWF for the most part.

[@ancient1350]

@@Cruising_On_Lake_Havasoma 💯

[@spms52]

Shawn Michaels and Hulk Hogan drew 640,000 PPV Buys in 2005. The Highest Summerslam PPV of the 2000s.

[@WZ912]

Hogan

[@EdwardBevins]

Hogan did

[@johnnyskinwalker4095]

Imagine guys were so starved of seeing real testosterone on a wrestling show that they were willing to cheer for the most Evil heels that ever existed in the nWo just because they were so badass. Then you change the channels and you see this wussy small dude prancing around and beating guys twice his size like Vader or far more dangerous than him like Foley. Guys were like "nah". All the reactions at MSG for HBK was about months and months of build ups of guys being fed up of the Boy Toy. And here there was at the opposite side of the ring the ultimate man's man and badass in Sid. He was the hero they/we were looking for. I think Jim underrate Sid a great deal. He was built for this industry and was always over.

[@blueeyeddevil9441]

Why only have spare parts kept in the trunk when you can tow an exact duplicate of your vehicle? Hopefully there is also a Rock Auto GMC Dealership to serve my needs and other curiosities and queries.

[@TommyTiger619]

I love how Jim just flawlessly goes into talking about I guess his sponsors.

[@mattm6580]

HBK 96 should have been wwfs version of Flair 86-- a chickenshit heel champion who runs his mouth. But wwf champions were always babyface unless they were transitional champions.

[@cutekanjii]

Oh Ya, they were a bit too predictable at the time. He shoulda been that running away, begging for mercy heel not trying to make him a babyface with a mainly male audience with that silly theme song it just wasn't gonna happen. Just cos vince fancied him didn't mean the rest of the audience would have

[@Thejonesguy]

Jim eats corn the long way 😂

[@AndromedanPrince]

Bret literally proved his Star power by what happened in the ratings before and after he left, But WCW of course totally misused him and never tried to use his momentum he had when he was in WWF

[@simeonflake]

Maybe if Bischoff could've removed his head from Hogan's ass and actually listened to Bret, something positive could have came from his time in Atlanta. Then again, Bret's career down there didn't improve a bit when Russo and Ferrera were given the book....

[@patale1640]

They had the roster and tv time to produce 3 different shows with completely different main event draws on top. Sounds like a familiar problem recently.

[@deanromanado5850]

It seemed like WCW wasn't so much wanting to get established talent, but wanted to make sure WWE didn't have any.

[@highjim7778]

what u on about? bret was on top in 95 along with diesel and everything including the AE got better as soon as he took the backseat or went heal in 97.

[@whtevr84]

@@highjim7778 Bret wasn't "on top" with Diesel in 1995, only for the last month or so of that year as a transitional champ until he passed the belt to Shawn, and even then he wasn't the focus of the card, 1995 was focused mainly on Diesel against monster heels and building up Shawn If 1997 is considered better to you, than it wasn't Bret "taking a back seat", he was a major focus of the company in 1997

[@alfiehickson8440]

Let's get it right the business was down. Diesel wasn't a draw hogan wasn't even a draw in wwf after the steroid trial... considering how they did when they left wwf and then how the wwf did when they replaced cornette and prichard with Russo it obviously wasn't the talents fault but the PISS POOR creative!

[@randommay9219]

You should hear Vaders take on the 96 ratings

[@BrianJamesShanley]

Shawn Michaels is good in the ring. And he did not have to Main Event, unless he was the opponent putting the world champion over. Or maybe as a vulnerable heel WWF champion for a season. But to build the WWF around him as a Babyface champion was a mistake. He long, feminine hair - combined with his dancing - made him an unbelievable long term champion. People were expected to accept him pinning Big Van Vader cleanly after a Rockers-style crescent kick, and I think people were like, “Fuck you”. They were happy to see Sid finally get the belt off him.

[@chadhoganlive]

I love these stat shows! Fun to find out ratings and attendance, all of which is recorded in Jim's records. Very important to wrestling history.

[@FUGP72]

Maybe not attendance, but ratings and PPV buy rates for the Monday Night Wars have been widely available on several internet wrestling sites for pretty much the last 25 years. Back when 90% of the country/world were still on dial up and sunny was "the most downloaded celebrity on AOL", there were already sites keeping track

[@chadhoganlive]

@@FUGP72 Thank you for that information. Wrestling existed before the Monday Night Wars and that's what I was talking about. Most wrestling sites don't cover the territories as the interwebs wasn't available for mass public usage back then. Have a good day.

[@FUGP72]

@@chadhoganlive TV and attendance numbers from 1996-1997. Firmly in the Monday Night Wars. You can also get ratings for things like Saturday Night's Main Event of the 80s online pretty easily. And buy rates for the far fewer PPVs they had. As for other "TV" the WWF had, there were no real ratings since it was not a specific time slot program.

[@stevensingleton6742]

The NWO was hot! 123 kid, Razor and Diesel all left and become bigger stars by dropping the Gimmicks. HBK was also the first time me and my friends heard anything real about outside of the ring behavior that we really understood was real life.

[@shortinos]

Nitro was so much better than RAW at this time imo, even before NWO. I watched all RAW and Nitro shows recently from 96 and RAW is just a joke in comparison. Especially when they are doing the parody Ted Turner / Hogan / Savage segments while in turn offering nothing good on there show. They even just started showing matches from the prior In Your House on RAW for free in order to get better ratings.