John Douglas on chasing serial killers

Mindhunters' John Douglas, a legendary FBI agent, opens up about the personal toll a career of interviewing the most notorious serial killers had on his mental, and physical health. Don't miss this candid interview with a man who gave the literal MasterClass on how to think like a criminal profiler. Warning:
This episode features disturbing topics covering violent crimes. Viewer discretion is advised.

[@fafafais]

Not only a national treasure. But a world treasure. It's people like him who should be celebrated.

[@franklinholt8054]

Lol...ok....

[@sheilaray6601]

Absolutely.

[@greenleaf9274]

No no no Taylor Swift is what I celebrate.

[@Sunshine-rk5zl]

I've gone down a John Douglas rabbit hole and let me tell you, it is the most awesome rabbit hole ever. Epic.

[@christinavigorandmoxie]

I'm shocked this interview doesn't have more views because it's one of the best with JD I've seen! I've been following his career since I was way too young to do so (I'm 47 and my dad worked with some of the worst sex offenders in the state of MN if that tells you anything) and I'm going to see him at CrimeCon in a week but he's not only fascinating to listen to but his career covering so many different areas of law enforcement is unreal. The conversational style you brought to the table was fantastic! I'm so excited, this is my Super Bowl to meet him, and this interview was the perfect precursor to going to see him.

[@jenbasa5677]

His illness was most likely caused by all the toxic evil he was exposed to and the sick evil vibrations. He's paid a high price to do this job. Blessed be John and thank you for your service.💙💙

[@alisonkamphuis266]

Agree 👍

[@candacef9776]

Not only that but he was going into prisons where alot of illnesses are especially back then. Many people in close quarters = lots of germies.

[@gummybears-n-crime1317]

I wish there was more to watch with John available. John will be one of those guys we ask “why isn’t John around to help?!”

[@oldironsides4107]

The man has over a dozen books. And countless interviews.

[@notapplicable761]

There is… a TV show based on him and his work 🤷

[@genietillery878]

I believe John Douglas and Robert Ressler were pioneers in profiling. What a job to do though, and I can't imagine the stress level.

[@greywolfe6941]

Dont forget Bob Hazelwood

[@genietillery878]

@@greywolfe6941 Thanks, I didn't remember.

[@X_m19]

@@greywolfe6941 do you mean roy hazrlwood?

[@X_m19]

* hazelwood

[@greywolfe6941]

@@X_m19 indeed..Roy. Ty

[@MrFirefalconx]

I've read Mindhunter and Journey into Darkness. Really enjoyed them. Somehow this is the first time I've seen him in live-action mode... And holy smokes, this guy is fantastic! I would've never gauged his phenomenal personality from reading those books. I'd make a horrible profiler. What a solid dude.

[@oleschmeed3916]

Which one was better? I'm reading mind hunter right now. I wanted more sit down with the killer dialog. In MindHunter he just gives the facts of the case, let's you know he talks to the guy, maybe states an important sentence or two the killer said and that's that. I wanted wayyy more 1 on 1 sit down interviews they did in prison.

[@MrFirefalconx]

@@oleschmeed3916 Right on. I still liked Mind Hunter the most… This is going back more than 25 years, lol.

[@DrB81]

Read ‘The Cases that haunt us’ as well. And his partner Robert Ressler’s ‘Whoever fights monsters’ is amazing.

[@liyangajay8621]

Not me actually crying out of happiness when reading his book. The love and passion plus the hard work is just amazing ❤

[@gretafields4706]

I always wnted to thank John Douglas for raising public knowledge of the correlation of animal cruelty to violence against humans. As a reporter in the 1970s-80s, I became traumatized by hearing Numerous stories of violence committed by ORDINARY farmers in Central Ky., an agricultural zone. I collected stories of farm boys hanging old women on clothes lines to butcher them like rabbits (one was my mom's old 4-H teacher; one was my friend's neighbor!); farmers butchering farm wives; farmers delivering their own children, using tractor chains (to save doctor fees), and then I covered the Todd Ice case, where a teenager cut a child's throat with his farm knife \ hunting knife. There was even a boy using a crossbow to shoot his own father. Then I heard about Bundy, who kept a meat hook over his kitchen table! Why don't people notice this stuff? Since then, a lot of books by profilers and behavior analysts has begun to make people think about the causes of adults hurting children, and helpless animals. I know we have to stop violence agaubst animals, or we may never stop it against children. I don't think you can ever debrief enough from hearing the cases I heard. But you people, law enforcement, SAW the crime scenes. I saw a few things, down on the farm, and a few times is enough to affect you for life. Experts say, you have to tell the stories, but they add, it won't heal you (veterans, cops) until you receive feeling responses from listeners. For this purpose, I want to create a women's storytelling circle on my farm... a good farm, where children get to see animals treated with love and dignity, never skinned alive or cut up😥. You men could do something like that -- set up a man cave -- for little boys to feel safe.

[@tstarr8314]

Animal cruelty is not taken seriously enough, even with decades of research which shows that people who hurt animals also hurt people. Domestic and family violence campaigns are only just now starting to talk about it but people who have worked for those services have known to ask about pets for years, but there's still so few supports for people wanting to escape violence and protect their pets.

[@markcraven3842]

What a fascinating guy. A real pioneer! Good interview...

[@slconstable]

I cannot imagine being in a room with these monsters, having to hear their crazy. God bless people who run to trouble when everything screams to run away.

[@suecopening1514]

If I could go back in time (career wise) and emulate anyone, it would be John. Smart, empathetic, open to the diverse/perverse but, all for the good and betterment of society. An American hero. 🥰

[@greywolfe6941]

"With much wisdom comes great sorrow." His every slightest nuance gives silent testimony to the rotten underbelly of mankind, and the irreparable shock to the soul when confronted. I would be after the fire that still burns brightly in his eyes...the honest desire to see done that which is right.

[@sarcasticallyrearranged]

Robert Ressler was just as important to the FBI and profiling, as well as Ann Burgess.

[@bruisersdilemma354]

Met Douglas at a book signing back in the 90's where he signed my copy of Mindhunter. Great guy and still going strong!

[@patrickc3419]

I still have the book “Mindhunter”, which the series is based on, which we were required to have for a “deviant behavior” class decades ago in college.

[@michaelcaruso4055]

Could listen to JD for hours. What a career

[@sheilaray6601]

Few people change the world with their work. John Douglas and his team did just that. Because the right group of visionaries came together at the right time, history shifted in a beneficial direction. Mad respect for these hard-working thinkers.

[@JJShaw1210]

I'd love to listen to one of his in person conferences. He seems like such a great guy and down to earth for a guy who's has amazing gifts and a considerable job. Even in retired he still adds his 2 cents when asked.

[@renejosundvall]

My favorite FBI GUY!💝

[@okiehillbilly6344]

I have read all of John Douglas’ books and studied all the papers he has authored. Watching this I was actually surprised by how badly it was done. He is a wealth of knowledge of the criminal mind and if I had the opportunity to sit down with him and only had 1 1/2 hours I’d have structured my questions differently. Whenever he does a seminar he prepares it basically chronologically to explain the process of how he created the innovative process of profiling. He details his association with Ann Burgess and her husband. The way that the video looked spliced was very distracting. Overall it was a great interview that was more of a fireside chat with these guys. Now I’ve never watched their podcast before and maybe that’s their normal conversation with a guest but with John Douglas there were so many missed opportunities. I can appreciate that these are veterans just like myself and they alluded to being investigators themselves and that may have taken away from some of the things that Dr Douglas could have given insight on. It’s still a very good interview of the man of a thousand stories but I really wish they had more prepared their questions more. His book Mindhunter alone would have given them the map of sorts, to maintain a more cohesive interview. When he explained his experience of almost dying during the Green River case, as an example, should have been at the beginning of his interview because of the profound effect it had on him that’s not in the books. Again I don’t know their podcasts and maybe it’s just how they wanted it because he was very relaxed. Many people would have expected that he speak more on the docuseries vs the truth which he barely touched on. I think they missed a great opportunity to glean insight that others wouldn’t have gotten much like the Biden Trump question. I’m sharing this because it’s still a very good podcast and most people don’t have the information I do so I may be more critical than most. Great job and I really do like the hosts so I’ll check out more of their content.

[@buttercatpaws9674]

Just ran across you guys. Enjoyed this forum. Retired military. Seems it suits my ear. Mr. Douglas is certainly noteworthy..

[@tl9055]

John Douglas is Amazing! Fascinating stuff!!

[@beverlyamarantes9775]

John is a person who should be considered a hero instead of actors. He is the true goat.

[@galebird1615]

Very cool episode!

[@claymac7895]

Guys ego is out of control. He acts like he can predict the future which simply isn't true.

[@rosannavitale9922]

Viewing this through the prism of human fallibility, it would be intersting to know if Mr. Douglas ever mis-profiled a case and the reasons for it. Thank you.

[@jenbasa5677]

No he has not, mainly due to the fact that profiling is looking for repeat behavior and the consistency of these behaviors.

[@Prof_Tickles92]

@@jenbasa5677 He examined a letter in the Green River Killer case and concluded that it couldn’t have been written by the killer. Flash forward years later and it turned out Gary Ridgeway DID in fact write that letter. But this was a year after Douglas recovered from Encephalitis which nearly killed him and he had to re-learn how to walk, etc. So his mind wasn’t as sharp. So yes, on occasion he was wrong. But very rarely. In fact the fbi dismissed his profile of the Unabomber and low and behold Ted Kaczinsky actually fit several characteristics.

[@greywolfe6941]

@@Prof_Tickles92 well played.

[@flagsabbath6483]

@@jenbasa5677 yes he has. The DC sniper case

[@oldironsides4107]

Atlanta child murderers. Pretty much any case when the guy wasn’t white

[@nrqed]

He is fascinating to listen to!

[@TheKoolbraider]

I've been reading his books. He's for the truth but knows it takes knowledge of a killer's mindset. The crimes are truly horrible but there are now people who can delve into the mess. And he definitely has a sense of justice. He has donated his time, along with others, pro bono for Amanda Knox along with Peter Jackson, Fran Walsh, and Johnny Depp.

[@notapplicable761]

Thanks for this guest, the only issue is the sound setup, half of it isn’t even working. Couldn’t hear the 3 interviewers clearly…

[@martinkearney7555]

John Douglas is very inspirational

[@crimenurse3236]

Does Mr. Douglas ever do live shows? I am in Boise and would love to listen to literally anything he would say.

[@howbizarre4198]

John Douglas will always be my hero

[@AaAa-pr3bq]

Is he have any account are something?🌚

[@taradeleeuw2344]

When experts are no longer experts ,sad chapter

[@AcquiredTaste3.14]

I don’t want to hear about hunting serial killers so much as I want to hear about hunting random cold case murderers. I don’t know the statistics, but I suspect more people are murdered at the hands of one off murderers than are murdered by serial killers. And I suspect more one off murders go cold, go unsolved than are convicted. Talk to the convicted cold case one off killers. Datafy them. Study them. Their motivations, their timelines. How they cope adjust afterwards. How they eventually fail. There’s a lot of work to be done.

[@AcquiredTaste3.14]

It might be more useful than glamorous, but there’s that.

[@SamStone1964]

​@@AcquiredTaste3.14Forensic genealogy is solving cold cases.

[@colleenhouser2714]

John is a genius and has made such a huge difference is law enforcement! I learned about him, Robert Ressler and Roy Hazlewood in my youth and ended up taking every psychology class available and wrote a paper on thier work. I am such a huge fan of these men!!

[@jeffjohnsonharrison4719]

@ss kisser

[@oleschmeed3916]

Bought his 1st book (mind hunter) after watching this. Was also addicted to the TV show. The book is incredible, dont listen to the critics reviews talking about "oh all he does is give himself a big ole pat on the back the whole book" he does give himself a few pats on the back, but its earned, the guys like a Psychic but not, he is levels above, he uses 100s of case reviews and sit downs with killers to get his profile, and when it comes almost always 100% correct, in one case he even got the color of the car right. Dont listen to the reviews (i almost did) and ive been finding myself having to re read some parts because i dont want to finish it. I wish it had more verbatim sit downs with the killers he did in prison. He'll just tell you he did, give you all the main facts and a few important sentences the killer said and thats that. I was hoping for way more 1 on 1 killer sit downs.

[@rosiemackenzie5976]

I have a question? Do you think there are more serial killers nowdays? or are we just better at finding them? I find this subject fasinating.

[@suecopening1514]

The reason the serial killers are impressed he can “read” them is because he is likely the ONLY person in their life that ever cared enough to even try to relate to them.

[@toffanful]

You really are missing the point.

[@greywolfe6941]

Who comes to your mind first if you needed to vocalize to someone that you've been constantly obsessing about killing someone for weeks,...or years? Think about it and you'll see there isn't usually anyone else who could possibly relate or would want to even entertain the idea. To "read" them; most often, is to see through the bullshit, lies, covers, evasiveness, narcissism, etc., ad nauseum.

[@meredithisme3752]

I couldn't bear talking to those vermin killers

[@laurakilner440]

How could it not be Wayne Williams? Did the murders not stop or have I missed something? I am a huge fan of profiling and of Mr Douglas. I first read about it in Ann Rule’s book, the stranger beside me. I was stumped on things like he drove a vw and even the color. I could not fathom it. Many moons later I wished I had known about criminology and studied the sciences involved.

[@carolannpacificadam1944]

Wayne Williams Yes. Children no longer are being murdered the way he killed but children there die every day in other ways

[@gps831coast]

You have to think like and do what you would do if you had a motivation to do and keep doing. Sad but true. I am always thinking, what would I do if I was doing these things.

[@beverlyamarantes9775]

Williams and his family still claim his innocence to this day.

[@michaelb.42112]

John Douglas / Robert Ressler are the law enforcement versions of Lennon / McCartney. EDIT : You heard it here FIRST on PSM, so there.

[@sarcasticallyrearranged]

Roy Hazelwood and Ann Burgess were also instrumental. You should read up on them both.

[@lostribe5130]

An incredible asset.

[@sheliafaber1445]

John have you profiled the killer for JonBenét Ramsey? And if so, what type of killer are you looking for?

[@onesolvedmystery2274]

Mr Douglas Is Said To Believe It Was Someone Out To Get Revenge Against Mr Ramsey Over A Business Grudge. I Think He Was Right On Point.

[@beverlyamarantes9775]

Homicide detectives don't ever get the recognition they deserve.

[@Raventooth]

The cats meow!😂

[@chadcobb2285]

Legend

[@kevinmcknight4807]

Let the man speak

[@yourpetyourway]

If you want to make a difference for the future, start with protecting children and how poverty and trauma impacts their lives especially their mental health. Not for just some of the children but for ALL of the children. Then do research into generational trauma and epigenetics.

[@B2iDC]

I would have loved a MINDHUNTER season 3 without changing a single comma in the alchemy of the seriesWho is ok to subsidize the D. Fincher project????

[@someone9493]

legend

[@m249118356]

Terrible to think what he’s seen

[@SMOOVHIM]

No, what he heard

[@m249118356]

@@SMOOVHIM No, he was an FBI swat sniper and a hostage negotiator before becoming a profiler. Then he would review cases and go to crime scenes. Again, I’m sure he’s seen crazy things.

[@taradeleeuw2344]

Obviously no expert anymore

[@destrocrimson]

Dude with the white beard sounds like his mike is off

[@jamesgolder7590]

He makes up for it with his hands and arms.

[@PNWGuitar]

Got mullen and Kemper mixed up

[@HPriestess232]

Because you guys loved listening to yourselves, you missed a lot of great information from Douglas. You missed important feedback about Speck and didn’t find out if he actually challenged Speck on the “7 c…ts”. You failed to challenge the Atlanta murder convictions because evidence shows that Wayne Williams did NOT kill all of those kids. Many families have not received justice. It’s a shame - this could have been a dynamic dialogue. Too many folks on panel.

[@Dudemeister]

Yea I noticed them misunderstanding what he was saying numerous times

[@chantellschmahl]

Agreed. Wished they would just shut up and have us listen.

[@Dudemeister]

one example was when he's talking about the west Memphis three and the guy mistook the mentally handicapped kid that was put in jail for the killer. Dude didn't follow the story at all. John was polite enough to move along without correcting him

[@JT-xp3in]

can't trust a gem like John Douglas with amateurs. Especially Santa Claus over there. My goodness.

[@sarcasticallyrearranged]

The excuses for Wayne Williams are just that, excuses! Trying to blame the KKK or racism is such a weak defense.

[@speakesuniques7985]

Political stuff at the end ruined it for me.

[@OgemTherapy]

Why is he conservative?

[@jamesgolder7590]

The guy couldn't even recognize Trump's narcissism. He's either blinded by bias or just not nearly as good as he promotes himself to be.

[@thanksforbeingausefulidiot9016]

Is anybody's mic on besides John's? These guys run a podcast?

[@chantellschmahl]

My thoughts exactly. What a sh*tt¥ podcast.

[@hectorherbert6585]

same ol ,same ol..stories heard a million times..what about recent murders..??

[@andreawilliams1509]

He retired about 20 years ago so I suspect he has few NEW stories.

[@StevenChan-26Bleezy-Incendiary]

why can he say shit but not fuck?

[@martell203]

Too many people on this panel all talking at once

[@janiceaguilar3593]

YES, JOHN GO ON JOE ROGAN!!!!!

[@ruthcassidy6052]

Sorry guys, you lost me at the "gazillionaires cabal" starring George Soros. How about a mental review of the former guy?

[@rob97dani]

Their political bias got in the way of giving an honest review of the former guy. Bearded guy didn't want to hear it and that's why he cut him off.

[@jamesgolder7590]

Sounded a bit screwy this part. Like someone the FBI might be investigating today. He gives the former guy a complete pass. Calls him just a typical New Yorker. Right!

[@taradeleeuw2344]

Obviously all wrong design

[@DocSeville]

Interesting listen. Thanks for letting John talk. I've followed his career with interest. Hearing his dismissal of trumps behavior as "just a New Yorker" really opened my eyes to the fact that no matter how intelligent a guy might seem they can still have areas where they are blind to reality.

[@CalvodeMiel]

you are blind to reality and a bigot, just a puppet of the media, and it's sad it's taken your whole personality.

[@jamesgolder7590]

100% right! Couldn't believe he said that. Makes me wonder how on the ball he really is.

[@mikeballard8404]

What's his thoughts on the new WOKE FBI?

[@patrickc3419]

Probably a combination of disappointment and embarrassment.

[@andreawilliams1509]

Explain WOKE is trotted out as a word by those who will not engage in honest conversation. As long as there are bank robbers, terrorists,etc... I respect the work of the FBI and think I need to hear more than a WOKE FBI to disrespect what many field agents do.

[@user-xk2ig4tc3f]

Woke? Oh dear

[@SamStone1964]

Does the FBI now hire staff based on diversity of looks rather than merit?

[@andreawilliams1509]

@@SamStone1964 Unless you have real proof what is your question about? Where you complaining back in Hoover's era when the FBI was an all white agency? Were all those agents selected solely on merit? We start with J Douglas and then wind up in a ditch irrelevant to profiling. I wonder why.

[@jamesgolder7590]

Some Profiler! Doesn't even recognize Trump's narcissism. Claims he's just a typical New Yorker. Clearly Robert Ressler, and not Douglas, was the brains in that BSU duo!

[@tvllyps]

1:14:00

[@AutoDeleteFile]

Your listening skills aren’t great guys; I’m 1/3 in and you’ve interrupted him several times and left us hanging. What about the OJ civil trial…we’ll never know because you interrupted him, and that’s just one example…

[@greenleaf9274]

All that fancy equipment and audio is shit.

[@emilyr3155]

You have to be an INFJ. SORRY not everyone can do it naturally :p

[@cxlumbine]

I am an INFJ, are you saying to be a profiler?

[@emilyr3155]

@Hallee Dahlgren I think we have a lot natural talent when it comes to profiling. We are constantly evaluating and figuring people out. This guy is an infj. But not every infj can do it.

[@DeeDeex007o]

@@emilyr3155 As an INFJ I always think about that! How we are natural born profilers!

[@korudero]

lol FBI profiler Joe Navarro is an ISTJ though, and behavior profiler/body language expert Chase Hughes is an ISTP. stop pretending that INFJs are mystic wizards because you're a bit intuitive

[@emilyr3155]

@@korudero he's an infj fool. Look it up.

[@dperricone81]

“Something’s” wrong with Biden, but Trump is just himself. It’s just his style 🙄🤣☠️

[@user-wg9vd8tn7n]

This was interesting until you started on politics. Bye!

[@tanyakochubeytk]

I agree

[@lindayoung6845]

A profiler who does not see through Trump!?

[@wolfwilliams]

Exactly... Listen to this for an hour just to have these clowns get into Biden-Trump discussions. Unnecessary, given the subject matter of the interview.

[@jenbasa5677]

Maybe there's nothing to see.

[@Prof_Tickles92]

@@wolfwilliams They’re very pro establishment being part of the fbi.

[@hhealy7199]

Linda, I think you should widen your information channels.

[@meredithisme3752]

​@@wolfwilliams your hatred will destroy you

[@giovannaiamele2932]

Amanda knoks is onviously huilty! I don't understand why you liberated her! Maybe just because she was an american in a foreign vountry! Italians will never forgive you for what you did!

[@DanielMulloy-bg6gw]

John is a horrible story teller.... this sucks

[@gummybears-n-crime1317]

He has brain damage from almost dying from stress protecting your rear end and mine from these lunatics. His speech isn’t what it used to be. Let’s be grateful we are so clear Of Mind and speech compared To John.