John Lithgow on Avoiding the Draft

When the U.S. Army was drafting people to go to Vietnam, John Lithgow managed to avoid being sent. George asks him how he did it.

[@TheSobe30]

I am a veteran, and I do not find John as a coward. It takes a particular type of person to fight, and there are some that are not meant to be soldiers. In fact those that are timid in this respect are detrimental to the rest of given unit and I personally would not have cared to have them serve. This is not a slight on the person, some are just better served in other professions as are we all. And a true veteran that has seen this effect does not slight. He moves on. John made a choice that potentially could have saved people, had he served and perhaps locked up in direct combat it could have meant the loss of lives in any respect. You cannot fault a man over his convictions be them what YOU might consider right or wrong, at least he stood for what he believed, which is far more that what most people do now days.

[@jeffreydrhodes]

Malfurion I appreciate your service

[@norbertsiewert3917]

In my case, it was not conscience or agenda. I just did not want to get shot, tortured, or blown to bits. Too bad that I eventually ended up in Vietnam anyway. Left to myself, I never, ever would have been in the military. I am a civilian at heart.

[@cat-lw6kq]

My problem with the Draft Dodgers is that they burned the American flag, I remember watching it on tv.

[@mikef143]

..

[@cat-lw6kq]

I still think why not draft him and keep him in a support job in the states. I don't see why the military at the time could not have done that, so many didn't want to go, I don't blame them. vietnam vet.

[@haydenblack5648]

A Russian friend of mine is fleeing Russia as we speak to avoid Putin‘s draft. Today is the day that I finally realized that I had been brainwashed into hating people that avoid the draft. Through Hollywood movies, stories, media, the oligarchies want us programmed to fight their wars for them. This revelation just happened a couple hours ago and I found this video along the way. Still there is a part of me that is disgusted with the way he laughs about avoiding the draft, but then I ask myself why? Why am I disgusted? There’s no answer. Because I have been programmed.

[@jeffreyjenkins3894]

theres always a hungry tiger shark

[@haveaday1812]

Well the problem is a lot of the drat dodgers turn into Chickenhawks like Ted Nugent or Donald Trump or Dick Cheney. They end up overcompensating by sucking the military’s balls and flag waving and “supporting the troops”.

[@johnr4425]

As a Vietnam veteran, I had the chance to go to Canada with my buddy but felt it was my duty as an American to serve. Wrong decision. Hopefully, if a future generation gets caught in the same situation they will leave the country rather than serve.

[@mattgrele6318]

My dad dodged draft and he was ashamed about it but the more I learned about that war, what it was really about, good for him, I would of refused it too, it was the right thing to do

[@skyfox585]

they would have just another kid in your place. Wpukd you really feel okay with killing some poor 19 year old like that?

[@Johnny-sj9sj]

@@skyfox585 So what would you have done if you’d had the chance to avoid it, you hero? But that’s hypothetical because you probably weren’t even born when it was going on. PS I am an Englishman and was about to apply to the US Marine Corps, but my Swedish wife to be said she would leave me if I would have been so stupid. Good call darling! 🇬🇧🇸🇪

[@skyfox585]

@@Johnny-sj9sj Lol, fuck yeah I'd have gone. Not with the Americans but with my fellow aussies. What kind of a question is that? I'm a 19 yo kid, theres nothing that seems 'cooler' to us. I guess cowardice cones with age. It's easy to pretend everyone would skip the draft when you dont have to think about who else is in the lottery. But imagine if you dodged it only to find out your friends number was called in your place. You wouldn't feel like such a mighty warrior of peace anymore would you?

[@skyfox585]

@Legion He had a legitimate reason, I still think it wasnt the best choice considering many people of lower profile were suffering the same hardships as him yet still went anyway. But he had way more of a reason than some selfish rich white kid who was just afraid to fight.

[@LoudaroundLincoln]

@@skyfox585 more fool that kid then eh. My safety's my responsibility, everyone else's is theirs. I owe the other kid and my country nothing. I pick my own enemies, last I heard that's what a man does.

[@Junior13113]

People are calling him a coward, but what would be the point of him being in a war he clearly protested? Is it ok for our government to force people to sacrifice their lives for meaningless violence?

[@coltoncarrington2407]

Afro'd Avenger Music Reviews yes. If America goes to war it's sons have an obligation to serve when called upon. The state protects it's people's interest, educates them, and defends them. For these the male population must serve if required. I'm not a huge fan of the draft and think a all volunteer force is a much needed system for now. People elect leaders that declare wars they see as american interest so disagreeing with fighting in the conflict is just not meeting your personal obligations. Most people to fight in vietnam would have rather been anywhere else but they went anyways and that is the difference, they didn't drench themselves in piss as a selfish display of cowardice.

[@coltoncarrington2407]

Chris Gilliam without a state there wouldn't be war as we understand it today. That dosent mean the world would be peaceful tho. Without a state there would be no senteral authority to govern, stop crime, and protect my property rights. If there was not a state my first action would be to get together with like minded individuals and create one. You are an idiot and probably a anarcho communist as well.

[@andrewcogger7586]

@Colton is that why most politicians get their children out of serving in them? fuckin clown

[@coltoncarrington2407]

Andrew Cogger I don't like draft Dodgers. If you are poor and you fail to meet your obligation you are a coward. If you are rich and skip out on your obligations that also makes you a coward. My standard is equal. Politicians who skip are cowards aswell. Thanks for calling me a clown that added a lot of substance to your position

[@andrewcogger7586]

you're a clown because politicians get us into illegitimate wars over money. you think im gonna go overseas to die for israel and exxon mobil? id dodge that bullshit all day, and ill be damned if i listen to you tell me im "obligated"

[@danbeau9404]

Bravo John, one of my favorite actors. I am a Purple Heart Vietnam Vet and I don't say this for your approval, I don't need that. I say it as a form of identification as to who I am. Most all of us in Vietnam, in the latter years of the war, did not hate draft dodgers, they went their way and we went ours. My best friend went to Canada and stayed for 11 years to avoid the draft. I couldn't care less. Many guys joined the National Guard with the whole purpose of getting out of Vietnam and no one said a thing to them. When I took my physical, only 10 out of 95 passed outright, I was one of them. Don't get me wrong, I didn't want to go but it seemed wrong to fake something. It was a personal decision guys made for a whole lot of reasons. Were the other 85 cowards? Of course not.

[@boomer1579]

Your comments are among the most sane here. Thanks.

[@hermanmunster714]

@danbeau you sound very humble yet you served so we can enjoy our freedoms. Guess only aspect ticks me off is to see sick or homeless Vets. Lithgow draft dodger and pbly millionaire actor. Others gave their all and couldn't get health services or decent jobs and housing. Not right.

[@Mike-zf4xg]

@@hermanmunster714 nothing they died for in vietnam protected our freedom.

[@tenbroeck1958]

My father was never ok after Vietnam, so I really appreciate your candor on this. I know my siblings, but never met my father. I was adopted, but I know from my aunt that he got arrested at 17 for a fight in town, and the police found a joint on him. They offered him the Army or possibly prison, as weed was really illegal out West back then. His parents signed for him to enlist and he saw terrible things in Southeast Asia by the time he turned 18. He used drugs to cope with seeing his friends blown apart in a firebase attack in 1970, then got busted and sent to Leavenworth, and apparently 18 months there only made him my psychotic, violent and his addictions were made worse. I can only imagine what a cold, heartless experience would have done to John Lithgow, and that thought makes me sad. I'm glad he peed himself silly and lived. Peace be with you and Thank you for your service sir.

[@alexhughes2684]

The scary thing is that the draft still exists for young men. They have to register with the Selective Service to possibly be drafted if they call for it.

[@ianwebb8066]

Alex Hughes no they dont

[@uncle5254]

Ian Webb Where did you hear that?

[@marcabbott5850]

No draft dude!!

[@Alan_One1]

I registered for the Selective Service System at 18. I had to for financial aid and it's illegal if you don't.

[@bmaiceman]

@@uncle5254 when you turn 18 you are LEGALLY expected to sign the selective service card

[@zoeemiko8149]

He forgot to mention the other way to get out of the draft was for your rich daddy to find some Dr to pay off to claim you had bone spurs.. so you could go back to college and play soccer.

[@snd28081]

Google Bill Clinton draft dodger.

[@RobertJamesChinneryH]

Check

[@tomryan914]

I thought lacrosse was the (except Lacrosse All-American, Jim Brown) Rich-Kid College sport. (Plus Water Sports, Skiing, Rowing...Etc.)

[@jrjohnryanjr]

Bob Sacamano but Clinton acknowledges being against that war And he didn’t have a rich daddy like Trump Or a daddy who was head of the cia like Bush He got his deferments for going to school

[@Wareaglegirl9960]

jrjohnryanjr who the hell cares if Clinton was against war?? He gave money to the bastards trying to kill Americans and he still dodge it so what’s the damn difference? Oh it’s because he’s a Democrat 🙄

[@marcabbott5850]

You can't judge a man from 1965 by todays standards!! To try shows your ignorance. He wasn't a coward or a hero...he just did what he thought was right at the time.

[@navigator1383]

Elephant in the room. Why was WW1, WW2 and Korea ok for the draft and Vietnam bad?

[@jacobrengen]

Marc abbott that’s so true

[@RobertJamesChinneryH]

A coward is a coward on any day and in any era of time and space....

[@dave.willard]

If you are a conscientious objector so be it. Some of them served in non-combative billets. Some in alternate branches, i.e. the Coast Guard. Some who refused all service had to spend time in jail. I respect all of the above and do not call them coward. But, as soon as you pee on yourself to pretend you have mental issues, or bribe a Dr. to provide a phony diagnosis like bone spurs, you are unAmerican in my book, a coward, afraid to stand up to the repercussions of your beliefs. I have never voted for a draft dodger for President and never will. To make someone with that lack of character the Commander-in-Chief is an affront to our fallen military heroes. When an actor does it and laughs about it he is just being pathetic and disrespecting the men and women that died for his freedom. When a President does it and then ridicules POW’s, Gold Star families, Generals, Admirals, and a host of other people that have made significant sacrifices for this country I cringe. I respect the office but not the person behind the desk because they have not earned it.

[@davisworth5114]

Real standards never change'

[@tedd_blackk]

How clever, John Lithgow. You say a compulsory draft was good; but who was drafted in your place ? I guess he was not as important as you.

[@BlackFemaleAnd50]

@@richardcoughlin9255 But he wrote about it in his book. That's why the interviewer brought it up. Agree with you, though.

[@DonOnAMeme]

I, respectfully, think you missed the point. A peacetime service draft would not be a bad thing at all. It is the idea of putting our military in harms way for a war that posed little threat to the United States he opposes (as do I.) I would've, and still do now, support a "service draft" that would allow for those not cut out for combat to perform so many years of non combative service. I would have refused combat training to the point of going to stockade. I don't know what would have happened to me, honestly.

[@BlackFemaleAnd50]

@@richardcoughlin9255 Thank you for editing your comment.

[@boarzwid1002]

I was a Canadian citizen back then joined army and served with 101st us citizen now retired ARMY would do it again in a minute

[@steveww1507]

thank you for your service

[@tom_demarco]

Bravest of the brave

[@manchagojohnsonmanchago6367]

Yeah lots of Canadians went to nam. There is a few monuments on mohawk reservations in Quebec and Ontario I've seen

[@edcorrigan3156]

Someone took your place dude, so I wouldn't be bragging about it. It also needs to be noted that 6% of college students were against the war until Johnson throttled college deferments as a means of escaping the draft, then the tide changed to a whopping 90% proving once more...it's all fun and games till you have skin in the game.

[@AndrewChan84]

I disagee with this man on one thing. He said "a draft is nessasary to keep the politicians in check so that they wont start stupid wars". Whether a war is stupid or not we don't have the right to expect involuntary sacrifice from others. That's why we pay tax. You own yourself, your time, life and limb. Conscription IS involuntary servitude by definition, NO exceptions!

[@RobertJamesChinneryH]

he was a big coward Springsteen too

[@scootdaws25]

If everyone had to serve, and I mean everyone, like in some other countries I'd be okay with a compulsory draft. Problem is, the wealthy kids would have their daddies get em out of it.

[@GrandpaCanCook]

I'm a child of the 60s. I often think of the time of the draft. Strangely I often feel sorry for those who took the path of John Lithgow. Sure 50 years later easy to joke and laugh about it, but remember someone else filled the spot that was yours. I think Shakespeare had a clear understanding of those who did all they could to avoid serving; to paraphrase him: "...And gentlemen in England now a-bed Shall think themselves accursed they were not here, And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks, who answered their call to serve..."

[@libertyprime5923]

Bet you wouldn't be saying that if you had to fight for Kamala Harris

[@abbadabbba232]

You can't compare serving in that era with serving today. I wasn't around back then but I've talked to men of that generation enough to know that just about EVERYONE tried to avoid going to Vietnam back then. Nobody in their right mind wanted to go to Vietnam, and it wasn't like WWII, where America's security was directly threatened. Any reasonable person, when asked to go risk his life in such a war, would do what he could to get out of being forced to go. The ones who had to go were mostly the ones who just couldn't find a way to get out of it.

[@hermanmunster714]

Sure.

[@JR-ju3kj]

But then how do you explain people like Oliver Stone who volunteered to join the military in a time of war and who wanted to be placed in a combat role serving in the infantry? Stone came from a rich and affluent family and he very easily could've gotten out of serving like some other rich kids who were in university at the time. Granted, I'm sure that some people in his unit thought that he was out of his mind for volunteering to serve and Charlie Sheen's character( who was based on Stone) in Platoon even garners that kind of reaction from the other soldiers in his platoon when he tells them he voluntarily enlisted in the army to serve in Vietnam, they look at him like he's out of his mind for actually wanting to be there and they think of him as being a ''crusader''. There were a lot of guys like Stone who were in their right mind who volunteered to serve and who actually wanted to be there. But I absolutely agree with you that Vietnam wasn't like WW II.

[@davisworth5114]

Wrong, we had the integrity not to lie our way out, knowing full well it wouldn't stop the war and someone else would go in our place. Your comments epitomize the false values of my generation.

[@chuckturchick8342]

He says: "I don't object to a compulsory draft, in fact. Because it sort of holds a government responsible In many ways, foreign policy is much more accountable to its people if young people are forced to serve their country." I don't think that's true. The government couldn't care less about 18-year-olds. In fact, President Johnson resisted calling up the Reserves to fight in Vietnam, relying on the draft instead, because it was those in the Reserves, with jobs and families and mortgages, who are really the ones that can hold a government accountable. Johnson's discussion about this with Senator Richard Russell (Dem.-Ga.) is available on tape. If you want to have a draft that will hold the government accountable, draft 35- and 40-year-olds. The military has all sorts of jobs they still could do. Don't put the burden of holding the government accountable on the shoulders of young people. Put that burden on those who are benefiting the most from American society. Or, better yet, if a war is really worth fighting, rely on enlistees only. That should be the best test of whether the public believes in a war.

[@robin-hr9up]

If you consider the death toll of the British in the First World War, in which we lost some of our brightest and best, and officers were condemning boys to death for ''cowardice'' who would cry for their mothers in the firing squad, you can understand why gifted people avoided the war. A war which was often ''lions led by donkeys'' - ever is it thus.

[@robin-hr9up]

​@Megalodon Unlocked If we unpick your argument, it will not make much sense. The ''Lions led by donkeys'' remark was actually made by the Germans - who had embarked upon their second European war in just one generation - and Britain stood against them. However, those who apparently organised this terrible 'imperialistic' attack upon 'civilization' were the same who organised the defence of Europe from German Imperialism - to be repeated some 34 short years later. Young boys calling for their mothers - well to call them cowards may be true. However, just a scintilla of wisdom might inform you that those lads had probably never left their towns and villages before being drafted into the Army - often being forced to by hordes of ignorant over privileged women calling shame upon those who did not join up - sent white feathers to ''cowards'' whilst enjoying a comfortable life as their menfolk reaped the rewards of the arms industry. The imperialistic attack on countries around the British was not an isolated example. Germans, Italians, Portuguese, Spanish, Russians, even the Dutch, were expanding their trading and their power abroad. It is true that there was a lot of wickedness involved in these campaigns. However, also much good came out of it. India was for the first time united both in language and access. India learnt to speak English, drawing the country together, facilitated by a national railway by which people could cross the whole country as never before. Africa was dragged out of the dark ages by her European invaders - who now being expelled - witnesses a return to those same dark ages even as we speak. America, a land of immigrants, robbed the Native American of his lands and his ways, often with great duplicity and cruelty. However those same Indians were released from the bondage of a superstitious and cruel savagery that they had no intention of forsaking. Imperialism has many aspects that the enlightened and informed man can appreciate. One could cite Karma, but that too is a superstition.

[@fruiteateryummy]

This about to get a lot more popular

[@jayden793]

@Bandit Ferret what’s wrong with you

[@charlesrestino5387]

I refused to report for five years, when I decided to get IT over with. At the induction centre I was passively out of sync with the whole routine from the start. At 1 o’clock the chief officer ordered me into his office for a chat. He wanted to know about the fifty or so items on the list of things that could exempt me from service, that I’d checked off. I remember the first was frequent head aches. I gave him about ten minutes stream of consciousness on the problems until he stopped me and moved on to number two. He quit somewhere in the middle of number three, long before l got to tell how much I supported the Vietnamese peoples’ right to drive foreign invaders out of their country. Captain Champion put down his papers ( I swear the was his name) and told me I’d been rejected.. I looked him in the eye and expressed my half hearted disappointment, got up and left the room. A months later I left for Canada. I was ordered to love it or leave it and I gladly took the latter.

[@bmaiceman]

So the officer in the induction ordered you to feel a certain way about the country and if not LEAVE???????????

[@assassindancer914]

@@bmaiceman that's murica for you. Obey the owners without question, or leave.

[@stevehowell601]

I am glad you left,. I only hope you stayed gone.

[@charlesdada6434]

Dear Charles Restino: I'm gathering information for a book on how to evade the draft, resist induction, refuse to train, etc. I believe if enough draft resistance cuts into the available supply of men the military has to expend, the lesser the chance of War. Please let me know if I can contact you for further information.

[@robertmccusker4480]

The sad part Vietnam and the wars in the middle east have nothing to do with freedom for the U.S

[@davisworth5114]

Of course everyone in the crowd was oblivious to the fact Lithgow played crazy to get out, knowing full well that a young man with real integrity would go in his place. I have respect for Ali for his resisting the draft, and he paid a heavy price. I'm not going to sit in judgement of Lithgow or the tens of thousands of young men who did the same, and paid no price for their deception. There was nothing noble in Lithgow's act of deception, and I hope he realizes this.

[@anajankovic2523]

Just have on mind this: the war itself is not noble. Fighting against the war, any way you know, and rejecting to participate in killing other human being is noble.

[@hermanmunster714]

Well said DW

[@davisworth5114]

@@anajankovic2523 There is evil in the world and often it has to be defeated by brave soldiers, while you are shallow and cowardly, ok?

[@geraldgiles388]

I was drafted. Didn't want to go, but I went where I was told to go. No one had to TAKE MY PLACE and I would do it again with out hesitation.

[@peterthegreat996]

Drafts in America only affect ...young men.

[@malcolmmarzo2461]

I was too cowardly to avoid the draft. So I ended up in the Vietnam Slaughter. I've had 54 years to repent.

[@danrode104]

Each guy never ever admits he was scared to enter the military. Just say it?

[@JR-ju3kj]

I've heard some people flat out directly say it. The actor Chaning Tatum openly said in an interview that he wasn't brave enough to serve in the military and to go to war and that he would rather just play soldiers in movies who did. I really respected Tatum for that.

[@DonOnAMeme]

He was John Lith-stay.

[@GetToDaChoppa-k5r]

Dodging the draft for a dumb war is an act of heroism in my opinion. Some of those traps that the Kong laid out where fucking worse than Saw traps. So fair play to John for getting out of that one.

[@Jibriltz]

I don't think there's anything cowardly about not wanting to fight in a war. If you think it is cowardly to refuse an order by your federal government to kill people you've never met, who are no direct threat to you or your country, then I think you lack respect for some very brave people, like Muhammad Ali. What about the people who were drafted? Do you think that most of them would have gone if they had choice? Of course not, that's why they had the draft in the first place, not enough people were voluntarily enlisting. Conscription in times of national emergency is totally understandable; forcing people to risk their lives thousands of miles away because of the political balance in South Asia is not.

[@Jibriltz]

So I guess most men aren't men because they don't serve their country. You can respect the troops but never look down on someone else for not serving.

[@Jibriltz]

So George W Bush, who let his dad get him out of Vietnam is "O.K." but someone like Muhammad Ali was a coward?

[@Jibriltz]

But it's quite obvious that his dad pulled strings for him to get him into the National Guard rather than into Vietnam, and in any case it was well after the conflict had ended anyway. In the latter part of his military career he barely bothered to show up at the base at all.

[@cat-lw6kq]

I don't see why everyone can't serve, if you don't want to go overseas then they would give you a job here. If you're already trained in something say a mechanic then that would be your MOS. Vietnam vet

[@thrasher2094]

@suiterd62 Military service isn't serving your country. Its serving the bankers that own you. But keep lying to yourself

[@cat-lw6kq]

The war didn't stop because many refused to go, the American public turned against the war. Every night on the news they showed footage of soldiers being wounded and being loaded into helicopters. Water Cronkite went out on the front lines and gave honest commentary on the war. The Smothers brothers were very outspoken and criticized the war by singing anti-war songs about it on their tv show. The American public not only turned against the war but turned against us soldiers as well by throwing rocks and bottles at us when we got off the plane. Vietnam vet

[@Mike-zf4xg]

nobody did that. you probably weren't even in nam, and you voted for trump.

[@charlessedlak]

The problem with draft dogging is your refusal to go means someone else has to go in your place. I am a Army vet who would have and would still go if called upon. You don't have to like you just have to do it. I was too young for Vietnam ( enlisted at 17 years old in 1979 )

[@delltawnnorthri7459]

I am not going to die for some Jewish banker. If anything, I would start guerrilla war in my own nation against the corrupt sending young men to die for profit and other shady shit. The next person doesn't have to go either if they refuse. The only time you should ever accept a draft is for self defense of the country, on its land.

[@delltawnnorthri7459]

I will not die for some Jewish banker. I would sooner pick up a rifle and start a guerrilla war in my own nation before I fought one of their foreign wars for profit!

[@CorvusOfMellori]

I really wish there was a more detailed description of how it all went down!!

[@Andrew-ve9ls]

i dont blame the people who dodged it

[@mitchellpolstein3043]

If he went into the army there is no way he would be in the field.As a Harvard Graduate he would have been a journalist or most likely a clerk-typist.A Colonel or General would have him on his staff to use for bragging rites."One of my aids is a Harvard man".During the Vietnam war the biggest job as clerk- typist.Back then computers where not used for most administration jobs.-U.S. Army 1970-1973

[@srvfan454]

Good for him! He stood up for his beliefs.

[@daviddoran3164]

That's just easy to say instead of I was chicken shit and didn't want to give up the good life Don't make excuses you were just chicken.

[@hiramnoone]

I was far from a fan of that war, but I went mainly because I knew if I didn't, some other poor shlub, perhaps less lucky than me (because I survived it), would have to go in my place. Lithgow is a wonderful actor, but a man without honor or integrity.

[@BrianSmith-yq7ys]

Loosing the Vietnam war worked out in the end but nobody knew that at the time. If people did this during the Korean War their would be no South Korea and the whole country would be suffering and a threat.

[@allentoussaint5549]

The only war we lost was in the Media

[@user-qy9tf2im7f]

The Soldiers did not lose the War. The Politicians lacked the will to do what was necessary to win the War. General Giap stated in 1969 that he was ready to surrender, so we stopped bombing the North and the War went on. If we had unleashed the full Conventional Power(no Nukes necessary) of the US Military we could have overrun and bombed the North into extinction.

[@ruthfischer4177]

Coould yoU be a medic if conscientious objector? Quaker?

[@Fraapindy]

The fact that he knows Arlo Guthrie makes him my new hero... listen to ‘Alice’s Restaurant’... it’s GREAT.

[@jsmesoercy6436]

He's a hero because he knows an incredibly famous song that isn't in the slightest bit obscure? What?!

[@user-qy9tf2im7f]

He could have just become a conscientious objector, but he still could have gone. Our Medic was a CO status. Bravest man I ever met. He was right in the middle of all the sh.t without a weapon! Put his life in danger to save others so many times I cannot remember and earned a Bronze Star and IMHO if he should have earned more than one!

[@TheSaucyOne]

Lord Farquaad Dodges the Draft (ASMR)

[@evinchester7820]

1. Had this been during WWI or WWII....he'd not have done that. 2. WIth Nam you are deamed if you do and damned if you don't... 3. But then there are those I know and served with who went simply because it WAS EXPECTED OF THEM..... Funny how you never hear that side of the Nam "war".... Wonder why?

[@boomer1579]

True

[@thebaskill]

Some people have the gull to call draft dodgers cowards, and yet, these same people helped elect president bone spurs. Yep, that's america for ya folks.

[@stevehowell601]

He is a coward. And I served 37 years in the infantry

[@Jay-vr9ir]

@@stevehowell601 Then so was Muhammad Ali , but you would not have told Ali to Ali's face . What is for one has to be for all.

[@crazygothvixen]

This makes me love John Lithgow even more...

[@RobertJamesChinneryH]

sucker born every minute

[@boomer1579]

Yes, it does.

[@richardpiper6265]

I was drafted although I had had two leg operations. USAF would not take me because of them. Four years later Army took me with draft number 65. I knew a guy whose doctor gave him a letter stating he was allergic to not have him serve. Clinton wrote a letter and for some reason he did not have to serve. A roommate said he was too important to have to serve and let someone else go. His number turned out to be high anyway. I think I am a better person for ending up serving. Did not want to be an armorer, cook or mechanic so ended up serving 3 years with 31 months in S. Korea.

[@DannyBobrow]

I would never judge. I do agree that a truly 'democratic' draft is the best way to ensure all segments of society equally feel the pain of war and may, therefore, be more deliberate in making such a decision.

[@strongman914]

But the decision isn’t up to the people, it’s up to the president and congress.

[@SandfordSmythe]

@@strongman914 That's how all things operate

[@paulcasey5204]

Didnt bother John Wayne or the 45th President.

[@a4skyraider]

He laughs about evading the draft, and his little story about urinating on himself seems to of worked. A lot of people against the war still did their duty. If he was so against the war, he could’ve served as a medic or chaplains assistant, or in some other capacity that did not involve shooting a weapon.

[@dcllaw677]

He talks of saying he doesn’t oppose a draft because it holds the government accountable, after he avoided the draft?a little bit inconsistent.

[@crumdoggy]

“I don’t object to a draft” and then admits to avoiding a draft.

[@marylund8482]

Who took your place John?

[@damone70]

@Mary Lund He had the guts to stand up to an unjust war and defy a corrupt government. Give it a rest, you brainwashed idiot.

[@86AW11]

Good for John on avoiding the draft. But I wonder if he has done anything for those who took his place. He seems to have lived quite comfortable all these years.

[@tedd_blackk]

Lithgow: You can be totally against a war and it can be unlawful war; but you don't send someone else in your place; no excuses. And if you were in VN you could have helped change some things. There will be a draft again, and others will look at your immoral example.

[@guidototh6091]

If he went to Vietnam he would have been cannon fodder. He resisted. When more people resisted, the war ended.

[@mirrors8913]

I don't see how dodging a draft for an offensive war is considered cowardly. Certainly if it's a defensive war on our part, then they are being cowards. If the overlords want to displace other people's lives in another country they can get off their thrones and do it themselves. Not your pawn.

[@katakisLives]

So he draft dodged but he still supports the idea of a draft.

[@secretvideopoker9602]

I served in the U.S. Navy from 1997-2004. I never knew one enlisted or officer that was for a compulsory draft. An all volunteer force is definitely ideal and superior to a draft. Having said that, if, say, the crap really hits the fan, and the U.S. gets invaded, well, that's a different story. I do understand that recruiting goals are down and getting more down, likely a result of our current climate and culture. But there can many other ways to work around having a draft, like private sector harvesting, foreign soldiers, robotics and technology, and so forth. It just so happened Vietnam War was a loser (I remind everyone we won every major battle, but still lost the war), and actually now that I think of it, after WWII pretty much most of the wars have been a downer, maybe with the exception of Iraq, although many PTSD cases. At any rate, Lithgow gets a pass from me, he happened to be right by the passage of history, but still props to those who decided to serve in those Vietnam days and those who made the ultimate sacrifice and those who made it home.

[@RambolifeCheesblocks]

Saying forcing young people to serve their country would hold a government responsible for its ''foreign policies'' having escaped that exact forced service to a criminal government is such a dichotomy. What is he saying? It's confusing.

[@sparty2761]

I'm retired Army, it is not within me to respect his actions or find it humorous. Without honor, you have nothing.

[@douglasjohnson8820]

John sits there and without any fear of retaliation espouses on his thoughts about the Govt. Would he be able to go on Hanoi TV and espouse his anti governments views freely and without fear of any retaliation ?Think not. Next Day he would be shipped to a Reeducation Camp and pray every day that he lives for another day.

[@sealnibba7723]

So many people saying "Oh, some other kid was sent in your place!" Ok, why didn't they just dodge too? Why are we operating on this premise that anyone had to give in and go fight some dumb ass war. Cattle mentality.

[@MsAndromeda666]

If I were him, I'd do the same thing. damn johnson, nixson and westmoreland.

[@RobertJamesChinneryH]

yeah you would join that coward Springsteen

[@maphi1947]

Let's not leave out George W. Bush. He didn't dodge the draft but he skipped out of many of his duties. His family's wealth made sure he'd suffer no consequences. The USA has been at war since Cheney conned Bush II into attacking Iraq on the false claim that they had weapons of mass destruction.

[@tipoomaster]

Nothing wrong with avoiding the draft IMO. Young mens lives aren't anyones right but their own. Get rid of the draft entirely.

[@maphi1947]

I must disagree. Among my biggest regrets is voting to end the draft. I was drafted in '66 and enlisted in what turned out to be a successful attempt to avoid Nam. When I got out in '70, I was anti-war and naively thought that ending the draft would mean the end of war. Unfortunately, the opposite has occurred. With no fear of being drafted, many young people no longer concerned themselves about war. Massive anti-war protests are rare these days. Although there are many who enlist out of a sense of patriotism and duty to country, many more volunteer because they have few other options because of poverty, lack of job opportunities, and hopes for a paid education when they get out. I took advantage of the financial support for education that was offered at the time for veterans but that was not my motivation for enlisting. I didn't realize it at the time but the health care provided by the VA would have a significant positive effect on as I advanced in age. I recommend that everyone viewing my comment find Eisenhower's Farewell Address on KZbin. Ike warned us about the military industrial complex and it's greed. His prediction was very accurate as we can see today that our military budget has gone through the roof and will continue to do so. War is big business and will only get bigger unless the draft is once again implemented.

[@user-qy9tf2im7f]

Why don't we just get rid of our Sovereignty while your at it. Stupid!

[@14Schofield]

Oooh the Trinity Killer skipped out on Vietnam?

[@DeepVerma728]

Some poor black kid from the ghetto probably took his place.

[@SandfordSmythe]

Probably because he didn't join the Air Force or Navy.

[@thomasgriffin5774]

I enlisted in the Marine Corps in 1975, in part because Vietnam had ended by then, the country was sick of war, and it seemed like a good time to serve my country, during peace time. I have no problem w/ someone that avoided the draft, I may still refer to them as "Roger the Dodger", but not out of malice, I cant fault someone who lets say was a little reticent about dying in some shit filled rice paddy over reasons that were very convoluted to say the least. But if you are talking about the ones who spit on veteran's and screamed baby killer at them after they survived that shit hole I say they are scum of the earth, to attack guys that just did what the country asked them to do while they sat on their ass is despicable. My opinion.

[@jrjohnryanjr]

President Bone Spurs!!!

[@jrjohnryanjr]

Brian Ross Clinton lies about what to get his deferments ? You do know that he registered for the draft and was given a very high draft number 311 which pretty much guaranteed him not being drafted ? What do you think of our current President Bone Spurs ? He is getting ready to pull all the combat troops out of Afghanistan ? Of course John Kerry could have immediately gone to law school and received deferments but like Robert Mueller instead volunteered to join the USN (mueller USMC) During Kerry’s presidential campaign 90% of the men on his 2 Swift boats campaigned for him

[@jrjohnryanjr]

Brian Ross the “deception” of the draft seems a bit frivolous He did sign up for the draft and was given a number that would never be called up He also instead could have gotten a deferment because he was going to law school I personally think that the VietNam war was a huge mistake and that no American shoukd have served It was pushed onto the USA by conservatives of both parties Under the guise of being anti communist Vietnam is more entrepreneurial as capitalistic than the USA Ever been there ? I have and also spent 18 months in SE Asia in 69-70 Airfares are low now yo Vietnam about 700$ from the east coast round trip See what a “communist “ country is like

[@jrjohnryanjr]

Brian Ross were you over there ?

[@keithrodgers5010]

He says people are forced. People or men?

[@56tinman56]

I enlisted when I was 17. I served. At the same time he was...well we know what he was doing don't we. I never knew this about him. Saddens me about him.

[@goonsdoona2979]

he didn't do anything wrong tho?

[@Polemic-2525]

@@goonsdoona2979 I don’t think there’s a right or wrong to this. What works for one may not work for the other.

[@Mike-zf4xg]

you willing joined an unjust war to fight communism in another country in which you had no business dictating? you're a chuck (remove h)

[@themeat5053]

Up until now I thought Lithgow was okay. No respect for him now that I've heard that story. Just meant someone else had to shoulder the burden. But, he's a multimillionaire and has celebrity. The other guy is either dead, or can't get the VA to honor its promise.

[@tedd_blackk]

@James McD They should oppose, but should not send someone in their place. And doubters are a moderating influence in an army; as long as they do their duty.

[@davisworth5114]

I can't get the VA to honor it's promise for 52 years.

[@dcllaw677]

1:25 he does not object to a military draft because it holds the government accountable? He doesn’t object to the draft if it’s being imposed on other people? I respect the man’s ability as an exceptional actor, possibly one of the best actors of his generation in both comedy and drama, but to say a military draft OK as long as it’s I,posed other people does not sit well with me at all.

[@ejhickey]

I dodged the draft by staying in college until I was too old to be drafted

[@musik102]

Refusing to fight in an immoral war is not being a coward...it's being moral! The Vietnam war was a utter disgrace on the US's part.

[@steaton165]

U should of drank the Kool Aid there , Music !

[@TS-1267]

... I think I'm going to have an hour or so watching reruns of 'Third Rock from the Sun', He's got FUNNY BONES has J.L....

[@JohnDoe-wy1yd]

Someone had to stay home and take care of all the lonely wifes.

[@patrickbateman1540]

@@delltawnnorthri7459 Middle class peasants will never learn they think they do it for their country since they are brainwashed from birth to be patriotic then they either die or come back legless and are treated as lepers

[@delltawnnorthri7459]

@@patrickbateman1540 That's their problem for supporting their Jewish overlords with their blood, time, lives, and money. Most of us can't avoid giving them money through taxes, but we can try to limit it, and give them nothing else.

[@ruthfischer4177]

Watch the Just one more story of co. Hacksaw Ridge.

[@iane427]

It doesn't sit well with me that they are both discussing this in such a jocular way, someone else would have taken his place. I understand why he did what he did but I would expect a more serious tone on this considering his age. He is speaking as if he was getting out of going to a party.

[@cat-lw6kq]

I don't like the way they talk about it, I guess he was a hippie or maybe used drugs and wasn't qualified. why doesn't he just say I wasn't qualified and didn't want to go ? to make fun of this and 58,000 guys died over there. is showing disrespect, I didn't like the war either but this isn't right. a vietnam vet

[@jameskushman9165]

Really Alice's Restaurant,wow thats super ole skool

[@rossbryan6102]

THE EASIEST GET OUT OF THE DRAFT ACT I EVER SAW WAS BY A FRIEND OF MINE AT OUR DRAFT PHYSICAL EXAM! THERE WERE 4 OF US THAT WENT IN FOR OUR EXAM EARLY DECEMBER 1963! 2 OF US PASSED AND 2 OF US FLUNKED OUT! UNFORTUNATELY I PASSED AND WENT INTO RESERVES. ONE OF THE GUYS WHO FLUNKED TOLD ME A FEW MONTHS LATER HE HAD SOME SORT OF A KIDNEY PROBLEM. MANY YEARS LATER I ASKED THE OTHER FLUNKEE HOW HE GOT OUT! HE THEN TOLD ME HE DIDNT LIKE WHAT HE SAW AND WANTED OUT BADLY AND TOLD THEM HE HAD EPILEPSY!! WHEN HE TOLD THEM THAT THEY SAID GET OUT, AND HE DID! I THEN ASKED HIM DO YOU HAVE EPILEPSY? HE THEN SAID NO! THEY NEVER CHECKED HIS CLAIM, HE GOT OFF SCOT FREE! IN 1967 I MANAGED TO GET A MEDICAL AND GOT OUT OCT 1967! 2 WEEKS LATER THEY ANNOUNCED THAT MY FORMER UNIT WAS BEING ACTIVATED FOR NAM, AND THEY WERE GONE TO NAM STARTING MAY 16,1968!

[@ruthfischer4177]

Friend just told them I'm not going. He didnt

[@charlie1571]

Thank God our former generation did not feel this way or we would be in a world of hurt. Some people just make their on rules. It all boils down to people have had it too good and they are complacent. Yes I am a Vet and proud of it. If we remain this way history repeats itself. Maybe we are complacent cowards.

[@whosthis7216]

charlie what did Vietnam achieve? Young boys killing people for nothing but their country, who befitted not one bit. So many American CHILDREN died because they were too scared of being called “cowards. The war was a disgrace and wrong, anyone who dodged it did the right and an incredibly brave thing.

[@charlie1571]

I did not say I thought the viet nam war was right. It was a waste. But for people decide to dodge their calling are setting a trend for future generations. Buy the way we were sent over there to stop communist aggression in which many helpless citizens were mass murdered. Of course since you were there you should know so much. I know one dodger personally and I can assure he is a bonified coward and he brags about it.

[@bobb1870]

How many kids had to go because you and others dodged the draft. Yes, I agree the war sucked. The antics pulled by some was nothing to brag about.

[@guidototh6091]

That was the guilt used by the Government to shame young men into fighting that nasty war. Until enough of them said, no. Then the Government had no choice but to end it.

[@johnhowell2080]

My first cousin's draft lottery number would have been 211. He might or might not have been drafted, we'll never know. Why? Because he voluntarily left college and joined the Army. Being a devout Catholic he felt he was being called to help fight Communism. He was killed January 28, 1967, three days before he turned 22. His name is Peter J. Keller, Jr. He was and will always be a hero to me. A guy from our hometown was drafted and served in Vietnam and if I'm not mistaken volunteered for a second tour. He could have easily gotten out of the draft by admitting he was gay. Another hero to me. John Lithgow is a coward that pissed his pants and acted crazy to get out of it and now has the gall to laugh about it. He should be ashamed of himself. Fuck him.

[@Jay-vr9ir]

Muhammad Ali was another coward ,but when he was refused , would you have called Muhammad a coward to his face?

[@user-qy9tf2im7f]

@@Jay-vr9ir He still could have served with a CO Status. Our Medic was a CO and the bravest Man I ever met. Saved many lives, went into the SH.T with us, never carried a weapon!

[@almay9962]

I miht try this for jury duty

[@bettya.k.abetty8259]

I'm just happy I never was eligible for selective service. Also not happy at the fact my disability can kill me at any rate 🙃

[@blmetal65]

The late Muhammad Ali fought all the way to SCOTUS to stop himself from being drafted to fight in a war he cannot believed in and he paid a price for it by being deprived of years of fight tournaments while in his prime and he could have allowed himself get drafted and do behind the lines cushy duties but he opted to fight the draft for his Principles. Ppl admired John's stand on the Vietnam issue and got himself to dodge the draft bullet but what price has he paid?

[@blmetal65]

@@robertmccusker4480 Very true

[@wtfa2910]

Do we really know the people who died in the Vietnam War no we don't care that chess board no longer exists never do the pawns

[@mychannel3774]

Bravo Lithgow, bravo… 👏😂

[@delprice3007]

He just forced someone to take his slot. Not all draftees served in combat.

[@JamesBrack-o5e]

Someone went in your place….doesn’t bother you now though

[@sealnibba7723]

They shouldve dodged too, why fight an unjust war? Or are you going to defend what happened in vietnam?

[@chemoboy-dannypheleps9234]

That’s president draft dodger to you. Or captain bone spurs... whichever.

[@alldayubum]

Hey for what its worth at least hes honest i count that for something these days

[@bearsagainstevil]

Why would you still claim to be American if you acted like this ? If you disagree with fighting for your country leave . He seems pretty cowardly

[@Jay-vr9ir]

Muhammad Ali stayed

[@bearsagainstevil]

Again I can't understand him staying in the states .

[@billyoc4927]

He is yellow.

[@dougmacqueen1679]

A study of history may help with the first question. What is now known as Vietnam was colonial French IndoChina. The war originally started the same way our revolution started, a desire for self rule. U.S. involvement was for the most part driven by the fear of the Domino Effect. Of course nobody here cared what the current shitty conditions of the people were, that made communism look good to certain groups. After all the Communists were the Devil. That is what was taught to grade school kids in the 50's. Now it is the Democrats who are the Devil. Anyway so Ho Chi Minh wasn't overly concerned about what the future may be like 75 years later.

[@jleb310ce]

Ahhh All I can think of is Trinity from Dexter.

[@donaldblanks8277]

well said

[@Pinzpilot101]

What if the government of the USA had just asked for volunteers? OK so nobody wanted to be a mudfoot....so they let you try for helicopter pilot and you failed...obviously...so you accepted Green Beret? what if.....Me I think they would have gotten better soldiers....who wanted to.

[@pepper13111]

I enlisted in 1966 at 17 years old. VN 12/02/66-07/14/69. Retire 12/31/2004 ,US Marine Corp. This guys a liar, we had 4 million in military and in his time 500k in VN, we had 500k in Europe! Another 125k between Korea and Japan then another 500k in US. This just Army numbers. Most drafted never left this country, he’s a liar, just another entitled punk.

[@rowdyyates4273]

I do believe america did not declare war on vietnam, just invaded-?

[@tedd_blackk]

Do some searches of credible sources.

[@evan1994]

TRINITY

[@NotoriousBIG1997]

on tonight at 11:01.... wtf.