Would Terrible Kraven/Madame Web Movies Hurt The MCU

John and the crew discuss whether upcoming Sony films such as Kraven the Hunter and Madame Web will hurt the MCU if they turn out bad.
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[@ThePrinceofHisOwnKingdom]

I would say yes, but at this point, even MCU is hurting MCU.

[@soulofanerd9364]

Yup

[@Fourmath]

MCU isn't hurting itself

[@christopherlee8989]

That's why they're at a point where I believe Sony's failure would not hurt them much at least not to MCU fans but to general going audiences they might get sick of just bad marvel movies However if they are good that's only going to be a plus for marvel

[@soulofanerd9364]

@@Fourmath how not? Are you saying they're not hurting at all?

[@Fourmath]

@soulofanerd9364 don't know how good-great content, Love & Thunder and She-Hulk aside, and be hurting themselves at the same time

[@Adriel100894]

Morbius and Kraven, such cool villains. Know what would've been great? Having them on, you know, a SPIDER-MAN MOVIE.

[@CorderoStephens]

Exactly!

[@fernandomoreno4754]

Morbid just need an actual gold writer everything was else was great story was crap tho

[@fernandomoreno4754]

morbius

[@randyn1571]

I disagree. Most people absolutely do not know. To the casual movie audience they see spider man in mcu films and justifiably assume hes part of the mcu... the marketing campaign of these films are all yelling "you love spiderman...heres spiderman adjacent characters". Madam web has a dude dressed like spiderman for gods sake! Of course they'll associate these films with the MCU🙄

[@Aquarat86]

I know movies are subjective but I cringed when I heard John say that the Venom movies were great. The first one was ok at best, but the second one was dog sh*t. I remember leaving the theater so underwhelmed and pissed that I wanted my money back. Carnage was sanitized and wasted. The movie was constantly trying to be funny but just came off corny and goofy. It was like Batman and Robin levels of cringe for me. I just don’t see what John finds to be great about the venom films.

[@ryankeefe2102]

Which is a shame because woody Harleson was perfectly cast

[@Aquarat86]

@@ryankeefe2102yeah, he’s a tremendously good actor. His potential was wasted.

[@RobbieBSweet]

​@@dougsmith4602agree he didn't shut up about Ghostbusters when he got shown it early.. he hasn't mentioned the trailer for the sequel yet and how long has it been out ?

[@CAM8689]

I don't think it matters sony live action is pretty terrible but marvel is doing pretty bad all by themselves at this point no help required

[@SeanXtopher]

Yes. We see why The Marvels tanked. As much as some want to believe otherwise, it was impacted by 2 years of mediocre to poor superhero films. The next GOOD superhero film will also suffer from suppressed openings no matter how great it is and will have to rely on word of mouth to have legs (already seen with GotGv3).

[@billymoore7182]

There's only one DC movie coming out next year and that's Joker 2.

[@soulofanerd9364]

And it's not DC as in DCU so even more intriguing

[@JezzaBondiBeach]

Joker 2 will clear all these ridiculous Marvel projects. Marvel needs to slow down

[@scbentertainment9305]

I love ya John but I'm sorry, you're ignorant if you think most people know the difference, “some people don't” no I'd argue most people don't because not every movie goer is a comic book nerd or has the luxury of seeing and dissecting practically every movie ever and every aspect of their trailers😂🙄

[@MikeDold]

Unless those people are buying movie tickets to comic book movies then they don’t matter in the conversation. My mom for example doesn’t have a clue about all of this but she also has never bought a movie ticket to go see any of comic book movie. Everyone always says “the casual movie audience” and then thinks of their non-nerd family or friends, but the truth is those people aren’t seeing the movies anyway, so they’re irrelevant. The point is the MAJORITY of the people going to see these movies in theaters know the basics of what’s going on, not all of them, but definitely most people do.

[@scbentertainment9305]

@@MikeDold “Those people aren't seeing the movies anyway, so they're irrelevant”... Damn that sounds an awful lot like you're implying that the only ones that go see superhero movies are the die hards that are so invested in the lore and all the behind the scenes shit of whether this is a Marvel Studios production or just a Marvel property adaption….. which was the topic of this conversation, and again that mentality is just ignorant. But now let me give you a MOTHER example okay? My mom doesn't know the difference between what's Marvel Studios and what isn't, but she still goes to see superhero movies because she enjoys them and she's not the only one, so your comment about non nerds not going to see these movies isn't "the truth" you claim it be😂🤷‍♂️💯

[@thealligatorboy1424]

I still can't beleive Venom is a part of these movies. He was only good thing to come out of the ssu

[@deontecoleman7047]

To each his own I guess both those suck too..

[@fernandomoreno4754]

Tbh the second one was trash and boring way too short and not nearly as good as the first one

[@fernandomoreno4754]

Yes If marvel doesn’t hit on the next 4 to 5 projects it’s over nobody is gonna wait around and keep enduring the bs they keep putting out

[@johansvensson833]

is it not the point to hurt the competition ?

[@MikeDold]

Define competition

[@ericmacgillivray537]

I think madame web has venom potential

[@supbrotv]

Aaron taylor johnson ❌️ Edgar alan poe ✅️

[@M64bros]

Sony's pathetic cinematic universe makes the MCU look 10 times better. Madam web looks cheap as hell, Also it's going to have the writers from morbius which makes the film 10 times worse

[@M64bros]

@@azozazoz9196 Sure, MCU films do have their flaws but at least some of them look better than Sony's recent cheap excuses we received. I still want the amazing Spider-Man 3 from them though, that will definitely help the fans regain their trust back to Sony.

[@michaelgonzales500]

Just be as good as venom pls

[@randyn1571]

Please don't listen to this guy. Please be better than that film at least

[@BM-sg1sl]

@@randyn1571LMAO!

[@andrewjeng3297]

Dumb question, ppl know

[@taterboob]

Just…let it die. It’s in hospice care at this point. Let it go out with what little dignity it has left.

[@ShawnShaman]

I disagree, the general public does NOT know the difference between Marvel and Sony.

[@MikeDold]

@@buckrogers-zn6hmdefinitely not, MCU movies were breaking a billion every time back in the day, Venom didn’t do close to MCU numbers and no one was wondering “where’s iron man? Where’s captain America?” When watching Venom. When you say “everyone thought” I think what you really mean is “a tiny few thought” which correlates with what John said

[@jeremiahfreitag5242]

Idk, That statement was pretty sure. MOST people DONT know the difference between the mvu and a Sony marvel movie. ESPECIALLY since Venom kinda had the Tom Holland spider man cameo

[@lincoln2324]

I don't think John's right on this one. I actually believe that most average movie goers DO NOT KNOW when a marvel movie is MCU and when it's not. They barely can tell the difference between DC and Marvel but the "advantage" and "disadvantage" for Marvel is that their characters are in both studios: Disney and Sony while ALL DC characters are together in one home. And yes, if Madam Webb and Kraven suck it won't be good, neither for Disney and the genre in general

[@alexx.malexx]

Let's put it this way: Sony definitely doesn't make the mcu any better

[@willyjohnson444]

I think you’re wrong and the caller is right about the average movie goer. They do struggle to keep up with the different versions of characters

[@agenerichuman]

Yeah. It might be hard for people who are passively aware of the comics to grasp, but most people have no idea what hero is owned by who aside from some major players.

[@Termite30]

Agree with the caller. Most people I know personally have no idea which projects are Marvel, DC, or Sony.

[@CorderoStephens]

Right! Some people still get confused on what’s DC and what’s Marvel.

[@MikeDold]

Are those people actually buying the movie tickets and going to the theater to watch these comic book movies? Or do they have no idea and don’t watch the movies and ignore the comic book movies altogether?

[@Termite30]

@MikeDold Both. We make the superhero films family events. Sometimes just my immediate family; other times, nieces, nephews and cousins who also invite friends. We try to watch all of them together, but sometimes each family watches separately. I have a HUGE family. Edit: I should mention that the few that do know the difference have also grown up with the comics and video games.

[@MikeDold]

@@Termite30 ok, then either way I agree with John here and don’t see this as a problem. If your family all goes to see Endgame and some of the family is confused as to why Batman wasn’t there fighting Thanos, someone else in the family can very easily explain in one sentence “that’s a different company, and has nothing to do with this movie” and problem solved. Or if that person doesn’t know and doesn’t ask then they most likely just don’t care, they’re just having fun spending time with the family. I feel like most (as in more than half) of the people actually in the audience for sure know the difference, and the smaller percentage of people who don’t will be with someone else who can very easily explain. And if it’s just two clueless people on a date and both have no one to explain it to them and have no idea what’s going on, then that’s definitely going to be the minority. Either way I agree with John that the majority of people, who are actually going to the theater to watch the movie, understand the basics and this is not a problem. I also agree with him that if say your family has a good time all going together seeing a superhero movie, then you guys will want to do it again, regardless of which studio the movie is coming from. And the opposite is true, if you guys all go to see Morbius for example, and have a bad time, you all will not be too excited to all go do that again. So the high tide raises all ships analogy fits. So the point is, majority of the people (who actually are going to see the movie in the first place) do know the difference, and the ones that don’t, well it doesn’t matter anyway. Because as an example, I can say that the mass mass majority of people in the audience watching Endgame in the theater were not confused as to why Batman was not there, the mass majority of people understood what was going on. Majority of the people going to see Kraven are not gonna be wondering where Superman is, the only people who would think something like that are not going to see the movie anyway, which makes them irrelevant.

[@Grimbear13]

At their peak no, Sony and the DCU had no effect cause MCU was missing excellence. But now that it's been hitting mediocre most the time the low tide would bring all ships down.

[@blueroninstudios]

I think there's enough people out there who know Sony is separate from Disney/Marvel. Sony is just trying way too hard to emulate the MCUs success but not with Spider-Man ... with characters the Spider-Man comics made popular. It's a very risky move, because 1. They're essentially not widely known heroesor villains outside the comic readers sphere, and 2. Some don't have the popularity of a character like, say, Venom, or Green Goblin etc. So Sony doing its own things outside the MCU is fine. Does it mean the movies are gonna be any good? Or even on par with the majority of most MCU films? PROBABLY NOT.

[@JezzaBondiBeach]

General don’t know the difference between the two and both Disney and Sony are bringing our mediocre content. Quality over quantity Marvel !

[@MatiZ815]

Yes. Every bad movie in a genre affects interest in the whole genre. Even bad DC movies hurt MCU and the new DCU will have a harder time taking off because of Marvel's poor current state.

[@BM-sg1sl]

“Maybe they’ll be great like Venom” (spits out coffee)

[@TheDisruptiveOne]

Yes. Aquaman and the flash being bad hurt Marvel too

[@erwincorreia884]

I think theses movies are going to be good in 2024. I enjoy watching morbius, it was good, my uncle and I. We like it. I'm excited about Kraven the hunter.

[@benm5970]

I definitely think it will, we may want to say it won’t because they’re not MCU movies but like always we have to remember that the average moviegoing audience are who make up the majority of a movie theater audience, not us, and for the most part most of them don’t know the distinction between any comic book characters when it comes to who owns them, I’m sure at least one person in your family doesn’t know if Superman and Spider-Man are owned by the same company or not, and those are the big names, and Madame Web is a C list character, so you bet your ass people are gonna be confused about it, and seeing as how lately the comic book movie genre hasn’t been doing all that great there’s already kind of a danger there because audiences are already starting to get a little bit of that feeling, at this point any little bit can either help or hurt the genre

[@michaelgonzalez3237]

These movies won't hurt Deadpool 3 or Joker 2 if those movies are good to great

[@jomyabreu5134]

Most people don't know the differences Between Marvel and DC and you think they know 2 Marvel universe are different 😅

[@ivancortez7653]

Sony needs stop teasing this Spiderman without spiderman universe.....How many more Sonyverse bombs need to happen in order for Sony to cashout with Disney????

[@mabelpines1225]

Well plans slowed down post morbius. Kraven and madame web might end the ssu. It might be mcu and spiderverse movies which is ok with me.

[@BM-sg1sl]

Sony has been hurting MCU. This is nothing new

[@ComicsForLife2023]

Silly shit… Disney is doing very well destroying themselves!

[@qdaddy9935]

I think the MCU and DC did more to damage superhero movies reputation than Sony. Sony only has like 3 superhero movies under their belt.

[@soulofanerd9364]

Huh? 2 Garfield Spideys, 2 Venoms, Morbius. And that's me leaving out Tobey Spidey because that's prior to the boom of the MCU and DCEU

[@soulofanerd9364]

But I will agree that the MCU and DC have damaged themselves and the genre more than Sony or even FOX has ever did simply because the MCU created the standard that they are held to and not meeting as much now. And DC was shooting themselves in the foot right from the start

[@qdaddy9935]

@@soulofanerd9364 sorry, I meant in their Sony universe not as a whole.

[@soulofanerd9364]

@@qdaddy9935 ahhhh okay I see

[@BrontoSmilodon1]

Madame Webbs next trailer better be awesome or at least have a few clickbait shots to keep people's attention

[@BrontoSmilodon1]

Ok just realized that Madame Webb is releasing in Feburary so they better have that clickbait treat out next month pronto

[@theitalianalien8477]

Edgar Allan Poe, good actor, loved him in the X Men.

[@josermaiz]

No come on people that believe that Sony marvel is running the mcu are dumb it’s like I’m more confused 😂

[@ArturoGonzalez-di6rd]

No, because I haven’t heard anyone say “Morbius hurt the MCU”. And that’s part of the same universe.

[@thetreeshaker4143]

Most people don’t

[@TevyaSmolka]

I don’t see these movies hurting the mcu

[@MrCesar90403]

Crappy Sony MCU movies going to ruin the films

[@JoeJoe-lq6bd]

How anyone thinks that Madame Web plot doesn't sound dumb is a puzzle to me.

[@supbrotv]

Maybe the non-fans knew the difference between MCU and Sony marvel movies, but ever since they brought the spiderman into the mcu, a lot more people expect them to be part of the same universe.

[@RemnantSRT440]

I am going to agree with John. Sony movies tell you it's a Sony movie in the beginning as well as Disney tells you it's Marvel movie. There's definitely tell tales signs that makes the average movie goers be able to distinguish between those two. Also the aesthetic are different between the two. However superhero movies have been having lackluster quality.

[@auradjinns]

@@dougsmith4602 exactly. They’re usually talking over that opening crawl of studio logos and don’t settle down to pay attention until the movie actually starts.

[@sreedharanbaskaradass9896]

Even Sony movies have the word “Marvel” in it, most don’t know and more importantly don’t care. So it’s all the same to the average movie goers

[@abloshow91]

Rising tide raises all ships

[@bryanpowell2388]

None of Sony films have potential besides venom

[@MrFrostien]

I really hope the finally end the damn spiderman villain movies thing.

[@MrCesar90403]

Madame webb movie looks wack

[@jaybling6687]

One of Kristian Harloff's panelists mentioned when the Madame Web trailer came out that based on how Madame Web could very well be the disaster a lot of people feel like it could be, it could very well add more fuel to the fire of comic book movie fatigue. Because as Kris pointed out, if there wasn't fatigue, Guardians 3, even though it did great, could have done even better; it might have had a shot at cracking a billion. It's probably a good thing that next year, there will be a five and a half month gap between comic book movies (Madame Web and Deadpool 3).

[@SuperSnowMoonVODs]

That’s why we’re getting less comic book movies next year so you can “rest” from your “fatigue” lol

[@Cognizant1]

I think Kraven has slight potential...my only major gripe - at this point - is that I wish Aaron Taylor-Johnson could find a way to put some bass in his voice. He looks intimidating, and I'll give him the benefit of doubt that he can pull of the acting...but his voice. Absolutely nothing intimidating about it, at all, and it actually takes away from the effectiveness of him playing such a feral badass like Kraven. I hope he does well, though, regardless.

[@RubexQewb]

I’m only looking forward to see Kraven cuz the violence looks cool and rhino being the villain is interesting. Also I’m going with very low expectations but hopefully I come out at least being entertained . Madam Web on the other hand … oof .

[@fernandomoreno4754]

I agree with you John

[@gloriathomas3245]

I don't understand why anybody continue to put stock into comic book movies. They're long past their prime

[@martinalbert29]

I for one am hopeful that these delays and hiring of new writers will produce better movies 2025 and beyond.

[@vicmatthews7747]

Ngl Kris is the MVP of this show.

[@shatendraseethiah2217]

We do have 1 DC movie in 2024. JOKER: FOLIE À DEUX

[@zacharyzeutzius4550]

Respectfully, I believe John is incorrect here. As a substitute teacher who’s worked with hundreds of kids and adults over the last few years, I can PROMISE you that people with only casual awareness of Marvel definitely aren’t aware that not everything is connected. I’ve had several people tell me they want to see (or don’t want to see) “the latest Marvel movie”, not realizing they’re talking about a disconnected Sony movie.

[@xsvrrx]

I would argue the comic book movie is no longer a genre. its more a adapted source.

[@abloshow91]

People stay say comic book movies. Heck journos who should know better still say it.

[@kurtisbanks7655]

No give it a chance

[@jeffhilton2670]

Madame Web may be the next Twilight.

[@angusng816]

Madame Web maybe the next Mulan 2020.

[@christophertheofilos1063]

Wtf is an average moviegoer?

[@magggoguma9048]

You

[@rebelelite4973]

i think someone said in the chat Joker 2 can help and so can Deadpool 3

[@joehenry9546]

Joker is in the DC Universe though.

[@rebelelite4973]

did u watch the video at all? clearly John said that it doesnt matter if its dc marvel or sony. there are in the superhero genre so as a genre it effects the other movies if its bad or good. Watch the whole video before u comment. it would help u out a lot@@joehenry9546

[@danielhicks2777]

sony, dc, marvel. they are all garbage now

[@ryanthompson6943]

Ehh not worried about anybody else we should focus on how marvel has already destroyed itself with the movies they are making so let others join in on the joke 😊

[@soulofanerd9364]

John took the thoughts right out of my head. I also disagree that fans don't know the difference. I think over the last decade the majority of movie goers have picked up on what the MCU is and isn't. I think that's why a movie like Morbius couldn't even get a great opening weekend DESPITE TRYING to suggest it was connected to the MCU or why a movie like Venom 2 didn't do big numbers. On the flip side I also agree that Sony making bad movies would just add to frustrations already existing for fans looking at DC and now the MCU as well with skepticism.

[@Hulavuta]

Good point. I think the numbers say a lot.

[@JoeJoe-lq6bd]

"I also disagree that fans don't know the difference." It isn't that FANS don't know the difference. It's that casual moviegoers don't know the difference. And John is wrong. His mother has probably learned the difference just by being around him or watching his show once in a while. The people I know who aren't big fans really don't know the difference.

[@takinskins4864]

Um kind of self inflicted at this point when it comes to the MCU.

[@randykrus9562]

Absolutely Sony can help distinguish Marvel. Super hero fatigue is real. Only great superhero movies will make people reconsider the genre. Madame Web is DOA. Kraven looks like a sraight to DVD movie. Its not looking good for Sony.......

[@paakdisayaniyom]

The fact that in next year there's only single MCU movie (that wasn't even a part of MCU in the first place) against 3 Sony's movies makes me feel like 2024 could be another turning point for MCU (as if the last couple years weren't the turning point enough)

[@HARLEMHEFNER]

Did those shitty fox movies hurt the mcu? Nope so the mcu will be ok

[@supbrotv]

Fox for most of the time, made decent xmen movies, they were never Morbius level bad. And Fan4stic came out during the peak of the mcu. Now most mcu movies and shows are flopping like crazy anything, madame web will basically add more fuel to the mcu dumpster fire.

[@HARLEMHEFNER]

@supbrotv did you see Origins of Wolverine, did you watch X-Men dark Phoenix lmao

[@phatalphd5402]

I'm not excited for any upcoming marvel movies. So these s***** Sony movies ain't moving the needle up or down

[@kfw9257]

The MCU as we know it, is done. They need to reboot it and start from scratch.

[@Tangerine_6924]

Horrible take. They already plan to reboot after secret watts so they would be dumb to reboot now instead of doing there best to turn it around and see the rest of this saga out

[@Termite30]

If you've lost interest, then why do you care if they reboot or not? You've made it clear that you're not intending to watch it anymore. ​@dougsmith4602

[@MixerRenegade95]

Hope is a powerful thing, perhaps He awaits improvement?@@Termite30

[@josermaiz]

Venom 3 is going to,be epic

[@JezzaBondiBeach]

First two movies were horrendous. Pass !

[@Banner-18]

Bearing in mind that Morbius was better than 3 of the last 4 MCU movies I’m going with no.

[@smancharlie]

😕 say what?!?